Locked On Lakers - Daily Podcast On The Los Angeles Lakers - The Lakers Have Good (and Bad) Reasons to Not Trade Austin Reaves. Plus, Jakob Poeltl a Center Target?

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey, everyone, welcome to Lockdown Lakers for Friday, Brian Kaminetsky, Andy Kaminetsky. There are a lot of really great reasons not to trade. Austin Reeves are the Lakers focused on a really bad reason not to trade them. That's next. You are Locked on Lakers. Your daily Los Angeles Lakers podcast, part of the Locked on Podcast Network, your team every day. Thanks to everybody for making Lockdown Lakers. First listen to every day Monday through Friday, no matter how, where you get your podcast.

Starting point is 00:00:35 This one's always going to be free for you and never lock. behind some sort of really tall paywall or something like that. Locked on Lakers on YouTube. It's breaking to hang out with 35,000 plus subscribers to the channel, Andy, all of whom are getting deep into their machinations. They're playing on the trade machine. They're doing all kinds of stuff, figure out how the Lakers can improve.

Starting point is 00:00:58 And the Austin Reeves conversations seem to be only heating up. Plus, Andy, a new center. on the center target list, is this maybe better than somebody, the Lakers have already, the guys have already been talked about. We will get into that soon. But first, Dan Wojke in his newsletter that he puts out from the LA Times, covers the Lakers there, does a great job. He had a really interesting newsletter where he was talking about Austin Reeves

Starting point is 00:01:32 and just how live these Reeves trade rumors really are. Like, is there anything to them? Are the Lakers still considering him kind of untouchable? Is he available for the right price? What's going on here? And it was a good piece. It had a lot of clarity in here in terms of setting the table for what could come this summer. Yeah, and there's a lot of different places we can go to with this.

Starting point is 00:02:01 I guess we should start with what the Lakers would be looking for to begin with if they did trade Austin and also what type of offer or what type of player it would need to be. And this reading from Dan's piece, he is not viewed he being Austin as quote untradable because, and I think he means more untouchable as opposed to untradable or untradable from the Lakers perspective. Right, like off the table. Right, as in we will not trade him as opposed to, say, Russell Westbrook a few years when it felt like he is untradable. Or let's say Paul George right now feels pretty untradable. But because almost no one in the NBA is untradable. But if the Lakers are going to trade him for a center, they're going to want one that is foundationally important, a build around type and not a fill in towards the obvious need they have at center and will need to address in other ways. if one of the best centers in the NBA were available,

Starting point is 00:03:01 the conversations might be different, but at least now during the first part of that off season, that just isn't the case. So obviously it is not set in stone that Austin can only be traded for a center. And unless it is a center, they will refuse to move Austin. But it does speak to how we've talked about this a lot. the standards for moving Austin appear to be very high, and as we will get into,

Starting point is 00:03:33 there are reasons for that that I think are completely valid and reasons for that where I wonder if the Lakers are hanging on too tightly to Austin. Yeah. And for the right reasons. We'll get into that. I mean, I think the baseline here is sort of what we have talked about. Neither one of us, I'm not in a hurry to trade Reeves. I think I am absolutely 100% do not think the playoffs exposed Reeves or made it clear that he can't be a playoff performer or that he'll all, you know, he's not the kind of player who you can rely on in a postseason setting.

Starting point is 00:04:11 I think there are, you know, the playoffs are incredibly hard. Most players, even really, really good ones get worse, some of them, you know, or even significantly so. in the playoffs. It is very rare to be a guy who elevates or even honestly, if you're a star player in the NBA, performs at exactly the same levels you do in the regular season. That's one of the things that made guys like LeBron and Kobe and some of the other like true all-time greats so great.

Starting point is 00:04:44 It's not just that they were great players. It's that their level of play in the playoffs would at minimum stay consistent if not actually go up. Right. And even Kobe, like, you know, if things go slightly differently in that game seven in 2010, like, you know, even Kobe, the legacy and the damage to his reputation, all that, because of how he performed, you know, from a shooting standpoint in that game seven. He had a terrible 2004 finals against the Pistons. Nikola Yokic has had some phenomenal games in this series against Oklahoma City.

Starting point is 00:05:22 I think he's clearly the best player in the world. I don't even think it's really up for debate. But he's also had a couple clunkers, especially by his standards. I mean, a Nikola Yokic clunker is still a pretty good game for most people. No, but he has not been nearly as effective as Denver needs him to be. And the point I was getting to with Kobe is just a series like 2004 against the Pissons stands out so much, not even just because of the stakes involved, it was the finals, but also because Kobe for so much of his playoff career was,

Starting point is 00:05:54 phenomenal. So it's stant, you remember a lot of times, sometimes you remember the times where he wasn't as good more than the times where he was. Yeah. I think, I think that's true for a lot of, I mean, like, if you ask people to name LeBron performances in the playoffs, you're going to get a lot of, you know, the comeback against Golden State. And then you're going to get a lot of, wow, he really wasn't very good against the Mavericks that one time. But I mean, and I think, you know, look at Julius Randall this year for Minnesota. the level of play that he's had that has been kind of a 180 from his playoff reputation. And for guys, especially guys in that very, very good player, which is what Randall is and what I think Reves is,

Starting point is 00:06:42 you know, not a superstar, but really, really good. You know, that variance can be even higher. And so I just, my point is, I don't buy the idea that Austin Reeves can never be. He's never going to be good in the playoffs. He was bad this year. Don't know how injured he was. Don't know how much of the matchup was. To some agree, he obviously needs to get better,

Starting point is 00:07:03 but I'm not off that train. But that said, like the idea that you can't trade him for some, but like the Lakers seem to have this right, where if you're going to trade him, you use that asset to acquire somebody who is as good as Austin Reeves at a position of greater need. That's why everybody's focusing on center. If you can find the Austin Reeves of centers, you know, the LeBron James of Feet,

Starting point is 00:07:32 if you can find the Austin Reeves of centers, that is a discussion that you have to have in the front office because your need at center is so dire at this point. You can probably replace some of the things that Reeves gives you in terms of secondary scoring in terms of playmaking and things like that. you've got to fill that hole in the middle of your lineup. I agree with you that Austin was not quote unquote exposed during the playoffs and he has in, I think it's three playoff runs now. He's had a lot of very good series.

Starting point is 00:08:08 That being said, though, and this is something that I do think the Lakers just need to consider in general as they evaluate all their needs, even if they're keeping Austin. The playoffs didn't so much expose Austin because they just read. reinforced the weaknesses that we knew about anyway. You didn't watch Austin in these playoffs and the struggles that he had and think, wow, that's new. What it really was is the things that you've been concerned about with Austin before. How does he match up against a slew of athletic wings, like the type of players that have

Starting point is 00:08:46 given him trouble before? Like the outside shooting with Austin can run very. hot and cold. What does it mean over the course of a series when you're talking about a player that by NBA standards is not super athletic? He's not super strong. He's not super fast.

Starting point is 00:09:04 These are all things you knew about Austin anyway. So in that sense, I agree with you that he was not exposed because there wasn't so much anything new learned about Austin as it was almost the sum of all fears coming together in

Starting point is 00:09:20 one really ugly series. But if you change, like most things, if you change some of the ingredients around it, different players, you have a viable center, you have different wing, whatever it might be, some of the results can be different. And we can debate over the course of the summer

Starting point is 00:09:38 how much you need to change. But I just, you know, context can matter a lot. Sure. And if Reeves, you know, Reeves are missing wide open shots had nothing to do with what Minnesota was doing. I disagree with that.

Starting point is 00:09:51 I think the series put him a lot on tilt and got in. I still think he's bothered. I don't think you look bothered, standing alone shooting three-pointers. No, but you can be bothered and it leads to missing those shots because you're frustrated by what's going on. Maybe. I just strongly disagree with that. I understand that. But all of that set, whether you think Austin was exposed or not, whether you think he's a viable NBA

Starting point is 00:10:15 playoff player or not in terms of the level that you would need, there is one aspect. of the Austin Reeves, why the Lakers really love him, story that the Lakers shouldn't cling to. And we'll tell you about that. Next. Locked on Lakers is brought to you by prize picks. Basketball season is at its peak.

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Starting point is 00:12:08 who on a two-way contract to somebody who is, you know, kind of a fringy, all-star caliber dude. Dan's story, you know, his newsletter that we were referencing the first segment, does seem to imply, though, that that's part of the reason that the Lakers might be reluctant to trade him. They just love the Austin Reeves story. They think it's very appealing for the fan base. They like it on a personal level because it kind of validates them. There are, I don't know, dozens of really good reasons not to trade Austin Reeves. That's probably the worst one. It's not a good reason. And it is something that I have heard many times over the years that they are almost clinging to this story.

Starting point is 00:13:02 Not just because it represents a feather in their cap, but because there becomes sentimentality behind it. And look, it is a legitimately fantastic story. Like, undrafted to where Austin is right now, somebody who had to transfer colleges before, Austin is, you know, we've both been around him, a very likable guy. He is extremely well-liked in that.

Starting point is 00:13:28 that locker room. He is very respected in that locker room because he works his ass off. And he is also a very accountable guy. Like Austin is somebody that you would look for a lot of his characteristics in a player. And that story is fantastic. But the Lakers, you know, as a franchise that I think loves both storytelling and mythology and perpetuating that stuff, it can lead into, problems, whether you're talking about sometimes we've talked about this before, how they run the organization. And I think sometimes they are trapped by their own mythology, but also because it can lead to roster decisions that aren't good. Like, for example, I don't think Rob Polinka several years ago only kept Talen Horton Tucker over Alex Caruso because he saw Thty as finger

Starting point is 00:14:25 quotes his discovery, as opposed to Alex Caruso, who was the player that cultivated under his watch rather than starting there for people who don't remember, Alex began in the G-League system for the Oklahoma City Thunder. And there are other factors in play here, including I have no doubt the clutch factor with TNT being a clutch client and the dynamics, particularly that were going on then. But I have heard from multiple people over the years that Rob Polinka did overvalue Thty in part because he was excited at the idea of Thti being one of his guys. And that's bad process. It's bad priorities.

Starting point is 00:15:08 But it's also, I think, missing a larger point. Alex Caruso was a victory lap for the Lakers. Like they essentially plucked this guy out of NBA obscurity. You know, he was a fringe NBA player at best. and he turned into an all-defensive caliber player under his watch. And unless you're like a true NBA geek or the biggest fan of whatever the hell OKC's G-League affiliate is called, like that's a win for the Lakers because Alex Furso is seen as a Laker. And also Reeves is a win for the organization for Rob,

Starting point is 00:15:47 whether he fosters Austin Reeves as a Laker lifer, or if he can flip him for a player that fills more immediate needs. Like, it's not a linear thing. And I think they need to be careful of being mindful of that. Like, you will still get credit. You will still be remembered for this regardless. But if you don't end up getting better along the way, it doesn't matter. It's just like a heartwarming story.

Starting point is 00:16:17 Laker fans aren't here for just purely heartless. That's where I was going to go with it. It's like even if you're willing to say it's too cynical to be like they wouldn't, they're looking for the victory lap, they're looking for the credit. The flip side of that is the other part of the appeal is fans really love Austin Reeves for reasons that are really easy to see. But the goal here is to win. And you have to be really careful about being overly sentimental.

Starting point is 00:16:42 There are certain guys that maybe the bar should be a little bit higher to trade. or certain guys that, you know, are so much part of the, the Lakers weren't in, even when he demanded it, they sort of ignored him. You know, we're going to try really hard not to trade Kobe. The, the Mavs weren't going to trade Dirk without Dirk saying, trade me. You know, at the very least, you know, the Lakers weren't going to be the team that offered up Kobe. If Kobe demands it, they, you know, maybe it happens. I mean, early in his time coaching the team, Phil Jackson tried to get the team.

Starting point is 00:17:17 to trade Kobe. I want to say for Jason, Kit and Sean Marion, and the organization said no. Right. You know, so, I mean,

Starting point is 00:17:24 generally speaking, there are certain guys who, unless they demand it, you know, bucks aren't going to trade Janus, unless Janus says trade me. And so, like,

Starting point is 00:17:34 there are certain guys. Reeves isn't that, you know, for Lakers fans. And so, I mean, Lakers spent three years shopping Powell and,

Starting point is 00:17:44 like, respectfully to Austin, he ain't Powell. the the the what you have to you know so like what lakers fans certainly don't want them to do is make include austin in a panicky deal in a bad trade or whatever but like if you turn around uh and and convert reeves into a player that you know they feel and can realistically say fits in the uh lucca era in a better way then that's going to be okay. That will be just fine. Lakers fans want to win. Ultimately, the goal here is winning.

Starting point is 00:18:24 There's only one exception I can think of in my entire time either covering this team or being a Laker fan fanatically obsessing over everything going on with this team. There's only one exception of that. And that was Eddie Jones. When they traded Eddie Jones, Laker fans. People are still mad about that. Yes, they are. And it should be reminded.

Starting point is 00:18:44 They ended up winning anyway. They won titles very soon after, and Laker fans still pissed off about it each other. Along those lines, Michael Skoto at where is he these days? Hopsipe, yes, thank you. I'm looking at my notes and I did not write that down. He is reporting that one of the names that could end up on the market if he's not able to get an extension with the Toronto Raptors is their starting center,

Starting point is 00:19:18 Jakub Pertil. That is a different name and a better name than a lot of the names that have been tossed around, whether you're talking about Nick Claxton and Daniel Gafford, who are probably at the head of the class for this. adding somebody like Yaakov Purdle could be intriguing to teams that need centers, including the Lakers. Now, without getting into some of the salary cap mechanics and how you do this and sign and trades or what an extension would look like and all that other stuff,

Starting point is 00:19:54 I want to talk about next whether or not Pertl is the kind of guy who meets the Austin Reeves of centers standard that I was just talking. talking about earlier in this segment. Is he the kind of guy? He's not a rock star. He's not, you know, he's not somebody. He's not going to the Hall of Fame, but he's really good. Is he good enough that you would make a trade or something like that to bring him over here if it cost you Reeves?

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Starting point is 00:22:10 It's guaranteed. picks run your game. So again, I don't want to get in the mechanics of like, you know, Pertl wants an extension. Are they going to give it to all this stuff? Leaving out for a moment the how. All I want to, I want to, what I'm really interested in is the idea of is a player like Pertl who fans may or may not be super familiar with, but is a player like Pertil good enough that you would say, that you would trade Austin Reeves for me?

Starting point is 00:22:41 If you had the opportunity to swap those guys on your roster, is he good enough? People don't know why you think. I'll list some of his attributes. Very good defender, competent shot blocker and rim protector. Rim protector, that's the word I'm looking for. Excellent rebounder sets a brutal screen,

Starting point is 00:23:05 which when you play with Luca Donchich is not for nothing. he's actually a sneaky good passer. He's not bad. He's not bad with the ball. Shoots a very high, you know, high efficiency player. He is not an above the rim kind of guy.

Starting point is 00:23:21 He's not a lob threat and all that kind of stuff. He had nine lob attempts last year. He made eight of them, but only had, right, he is also not anybody who's ever going to stretch the floor. He has taken seven threes in his career. And I imagine most of them were heaves or something desperation.

Starting point is 00:23:39 Or like Andrew Bynum, explaining his game. He's expanding his game. Expanding my game. I'm expanding my game. I don't. I don't know. Oh, man. It's an old, it's a pull for the old schools, but still, he takes a lot of boxes for what

Starting point is 00:23:54 can help the Lakers, you know, add a lot of defensive structure. You're adding a lot of rebounding. You are adding some rim protection. He's a smart player. He's a good pick and roll guy in the sense that he does the pick part really well. It's not that he can't finish at the rim. He's just not a lob threat. No, he's more of a layup guy or a floater guy.

Starting point is 00:24:15 Even, you know, he's not even a huge dunker. Like, that's not something he does a lot. It's really short jumpers, things like that, elbow jumpers. It's really more finishing. He shot 63% from the field last year and, you know, 50% of his field goal attempts were from zero to three feet. And he shot almost 75% on those. Like, he is somebody that,

Starting point is 00:24:39 can finish. A lot of, you know, he's, again, good rebounder and all that stuff. And he's just good on the offensive glass too. You can see, you know, he's, but he's also not a guy too who's, you know, useless off. He's not a five to eight point a night guy. He's, you know, average 14 and a half points a game last year. I have to,

Starting point is 00:24:57 I have to no and one part of your premise because I don't think you can answer the question without talking about the idea that Pertl wants an extension. Right. And the reason. And the reason I think you can't avoid that piece of it is because he's already almost 30. So if you're going to bring in Jakub Pertil, you are, and he's making currently 19 and a half this upcoming season. You're looking at probably 30, 30 something, which is, by the way, one of the reasons

Starting point is 00:25:29 I find this question and comparison interesting is because he is going to make about, give or take, what you're going to end up needing to pay Reeves. Well, maybe a little less, but I think if you're asking Austin, what you're going to be I don't think, but see, I also don't know if Austin's going to get 42 million. I think he's going to be making 30 mil, that is significantly more per season than a shade under 20. I think if you're going to extend Pertil here, it's not going to be for 19. It's going to be for a lot more than that. Well, but again, that's why the extension matters at his age.

Starting point is 00:26:07 I don't think you can ignore that. There is a lot that he does really well. I think the question with Pertil is how much does it matter if the thing, many of the things that he does well, I think can benefit a team built around Luca, but does not feel like the prototype center that Luca would want. And I mean, it's something that, first of all, I'm sure the Lakers will do this anyway,

Starting point is 00:26:36 but you have to talk with. Oh, for sure. Luca about the idea of, you know, is Pertl someone you'd be interested in? Pertil's game doesn't seem like one that would age poorly in the sense that he's never been a high fly act. He's never relied on athleticism. He's probably going to be roughly the same guy at 33 or 34 that he is at 30. Possibly a little more injury, you know. Yeah, exactly.

Starting point is 00:27:05 But he's had an issue. You know, he's not been completely healthy throughout his career. Right. You have to, you have to be very, very sold on the stuff that you love from Pertl because insofar as what people who've covered Luca described as the prototype center and based on the way the Lakers immediately tried to bring in Mark Williams what it seems like Luca has told them that he likes, Pertil feels like a very good center who is the opposite of what Luca would choose if he went shopping. So I think that's something you need to think about, especially if unless you're willing to give up a fair amount for, or you can manage to do it without giving up Reeves, but you give up like a first round pick for Pertil as like a rental because he can opt out after this coming season. And it's just something that you do to get by. and if it's an expensive rental,

Starting point is 00:28:01 if you think it's worth it for one season, so be it. But Purtle does not feel like a, he does not feel like the lab designed long term bit for Luca. And the other part about it that I think he doesn't, the box that, and it's an important one that he doesn't tick is the athleticism by, he's not,

Starting point is 00:28:20 he's not a bad athlete, he's, you know, but he's not a high, like you said, he's not a high flyer, he's not Derek lively. And the Lakers just generally need to,

Starting point is 00:28:29 add that to their roster. So, you know, Gafford is a much more, you know, as a, as a comparison, Claxton, both more athletic, you know, classically athletic than Yacquard Pearl. I don't think either one of them is as good, but I think they're both, you know, they, they are more above the rim kind of guys. It's close. And I think, like, if you could acquire Pertil for, the, you know, sort of

Starting point is 00:29:01 Gabe Vincent, Dalton connect and like, you know, pick swap kind of thing or whatever. I do that in a heartbeat. Because you can't be picky. I don't know if that's going to be enough to do it. I just think like, shocked if it was. These edge cases are going to be where Rob Polinka is really going to have to make his money this offseason.

Starting point is 00:29:22 Like all the headlines coming out of Golden State after they lose are the lake, they need to get bigger. They need to get more athletic. They want a center. They want a wing. The shopping list that the Lakers have is not going to be particularly different than the shopping lists of a lot of other teams. And as we discussed for Thursday's show when we took inventory, they don't have a ton of stuff to work with. So, you know, they are likely, I think, going to have to be choosing these sort of imperfect things. is like Pertil does like 65% of what they need, but is the other 35% actually more important?

Starting point is 00:30:04 Like this is why Polinka's job only gets harder. Yeah. I mean, one of the advantages of Nick Claxton other than, again, if you are trying to work off Luca's shopping list and trying to get his list nailed down as close as possible as important because you want that commitment from Luca. One of the advantages of someone like Nick Claxton is beyond the fact that he fits better with what everybody seems to think Luca wants. He's already under contract for a few years.

Starting point is 00:30:38 So you see how this thing goes. And then when he's like, I think probably 28 or 29 and he's up for a new deal, you figure it out from there. Someone like Daniel Gafford, if they traded for him because he's an expiring after this coming season, or what we just talked about with Pertl, you have to make. You have to make more of a long-term commitment immediately to those guys as opposed to someone like Claxton who you know how long you're committing for. And if none of them feel perfect, someone like Claxton might be the best simply because you know exactly what it is you're getting and for how long. Right.

Starting point is 00:31:18 And then you have to turn it around and be like, okay, let's, and I'm just, let's say, of those three guys, I think Claxton is probably the least, the lesserest of those three guys. I mean, I prefer Gafford over Claxton. I don't know. I don't know about that. I think it's probably close, but it's my preference. I agree with you that Perl is probably the best overall of the three. I would agree with it.

Starting point is 00:31:50 I think is a better player overall than both of them. I would agree with that. And then we can argue, I guess, about Claxton. You know, requires more research as we get into the offseason. I'm not going to lie. I've spent tons of time scouting Nick Claxton. Like, then you just have to be like the opposite of it. Like, if you can keep more stuff and get a lesser player,

Starting point is 00:32:13 is that a better deal than getting a better player, but that costs you more things? You know, these are the sort of, because if a lot of teams are looking for a center, like you've got to know that the Mavericks are not going to, to trade Daniel Gafford to L.A. on the cheap. That is going to come at a premium. If they, if they do it, it's going to come at a premium. And so, you know, which holes do you fill and with what and whatever? But I just thought Pertil was an interesting, like, is he kind of at the

Starting point is 00:32:45 Reeves level at a position like that? So the news of the news of that from Michael Skoto as a potential rumor that he might be on the move kind of got me thinking. It speaks to the importance just to fit because talent is obviously incredibly important, but so is fit. And trying to find the best bridge between the two matters. Yeah. If you picked up a center like that, could you compensate by finding more athleticism in other spots?

Starting point is 00:33:16 Like, who knows? Locked on YouTube is we're going to hang out with over 35,000 subscribers. And then I, of course, will be back on Monday. Send us your questions, send us your comments. All those mailbag calls that we put out there, answer them. And we will use your questions on shows coming up next week. Everybody have a great weekend.

Locked On Lakers - Daily Podcast On The Los Angeles Lakers - The Lakers Have Good (and Bad) Reasons to Not Trade Austin Reaves. Plus, Jakob Poeltl a Center Target?

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