Locked On Lakers - Daily Podcast On The Los Angeles Lakers - The Lakers Sign Alex Len, and the Hornets Want to Un-Rescind the Mark Williams Trade.

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey everyone, welcome to Lockdown Lakers for Wednesday, Brian Komenetsky, Andy Kaminetsky, the Lakers sign Alex Lenn to add to their center group. Should we expect, Len sanity, Andy? Probably not, but we'll explain what it means. Next. You are Locked on Lakers. Your daily Los Angeles Lakers podcast. Part of the Locked on Podcast Network, your team every day.

Starting point is 00:00:34 Thanks, DeV, everybody for making Lockdown Lakers. First listen to every day. Friday, sometimes on weekends, no matter how or where you get your podcast, this one's always going to be free. Never behind paywall. Lockdown Lakers on YouTube is where about 32,000 subscribers are all hanging out, talking to us, talking to each other, and wondering whether or not the Lakers and their signing on Tuesday of Alex Lenn is going to fundamentally change the outlook now that the Mark Williams deal

Starting point is 00:01:03 has officially been nixed by that failure. physical. So the Lakers, Andy, seem to be rounding out their center depth in whatever way that they can. Alex Lenn is not Mark Williams, but he is significantly larger than Jackson Hayes. So he's just a different kind of center, if nothing else. Well, he's a different kind of center in the sense that he's worse. He's definitely worse than Mark Williams. Like I want to say from the outset that, I don't have a problem with this signing per se. Like, I don't think it's where I would have gone if I were the Lakers.

Starting point is 00:01:47 You don't have beef with Alex Lenn. I definitely don't have beef with him. Seven foot 250. Like, as far as Alex Lenn is concerned, I hope nobody relays anything other than positive comments from me because that dude could kick my ass just by thinking about it. And look, he is a physical. dude out there. That is something he will do. He will make you feel him out there. That being said, he has, I would temper expectations. We will get into the why in terms of his impact, in terms of

Starting point is 00:02:23 frankly, how much I think he's actually even going to play. But he's a big dude. I mean, it's very clear from his signing, I think that the Lakers, in looking for this side, behind Christian Hayes or a center behind Christian Hayes. I was thinking of Christian Wood. Christian Wood was waived to make room for Alex Lenn. Surprisingly on Twitter at Cambrothers heard from a lot of Christian Wood stands and truthers and what I like saying that the Lakers F this up, they should have waived Cam Reddish or Sheikh Milton or Markief Morris.

Starting point is 00:03:07 or like, why would you wave Christian? Like, people, he has not played in almost a calendar year. And there are no signs that he is going to be returning anytime soon other than tweets from Christian Wood, which respectfully, I hope he can make a return, have not seemed to be accurate at all. He doesn't seem to be good at forecasting those things. He's not playing. I mean, I actually, you know, for a long time over the course of the season, I think, you know,

Starting point is 00:03:36 the idea of Wood getting back in the lineup has been important. A good rebounder. You can score a little bit is a different kind of center than than Hayes. He's certainly undersized at that position, but provides a different skill set, no question. But the problem is you can't play. And if you can't play, then your potential as a player, it doesn't matter. And you don't want to be in a situation where you're hanging around other guys, however functional, they might be, and nobody out there is a star, none of the options out there for the Lakers are stars,

Starting point is 00:04:13 where they sort of get eaten up and then you get to the end of the year and you find that Woods still can't play. Now, one thing that, you know, in terms of injured centers, that it is important to remember is the door is not completely shut on a return this season for Maxi Claiba. So it is possible that the Lakers will get Claiba back before the end of the year. year. And they're certainly not going to cut him, given the value of his contract as a trade trip this offseason. I just, to me, Andy, what this is really about and what this really says is where I think at least the Lakers are going to go in terms of their lineups. Because I'm like you, I don't think Len is going to play very often unless Hayes is hurt or there are some very specific

Starting point is 00:05:02 matchups where he might need Len against a really big body to eat up 10 weeks. Or he's just way better than either one of us expect. But he has not played regular minutes since the 21, 22 season. The last three seasons he was in Sacramento, he played less than 10 minutes a game during the light, the beam season. He played like seven and a half minutes a game in the playoffs, like six and a half during the regular season. I cannot pretend that I know all the context of all of his advanced numbers over the last several years. I can just tell you most of the ones I looked up are not good. All over the place.

Starting point is 00:05:39 His metrics are all over the place. Not a lob threat. Like for those for those wondering if this is like a continuation of Mark Williams, Alex Len runs like a 9-7-40. Like he's he's not that guy. I looked up his numbers too. Like he does not get many lobs. Like he can finish if you set him up like standing around the rim or like

Starting point is 00:06:00 wrap around or something. But he's not Jackson Hayes. No, he's not, but he's a little bit more skilled than, you know, as an offensive player. There was a stretch of about five or six years after he was drafted, you know, taken by the Suns about 10 years ago, where, you know, there was a concerted effort to sort of make Alex Len happen. And the last four or five years, there hasn't been. his primary skill set and it's nice work if you can get it he's not he's not awful and that's not the point his primary skill set is size and he is a diff if you're going to sign another player it makes no sense to sign a third guy who kind of fits in the mold of Jackson Hayes and and Christian Coloco, who is a different version of Jackson Hayes.

Starting point is 00:07:02 It makes much more sense to sign somebody with a different profile and a different body type and a guy who can be deployed differently. And that's what the Lakers did. It makes a lot of sense. And, you know, so you react to that, but then I'll, you know, I'll get to what I really think this means for how the Lakers are actually going to play. from a pure skill standpoint, like talent standpoint, if I'm being honest, I think Christian Coloco is a better player at this stage of their respective careers than Alex Lenn. But Coloco is not as big and he's not as experienced. And when you're thinking about the playoffs and somebody that you can put out there and at least know that they are experienced in an NBA setting, I think they want that, like you said, I think they want something that is different than Jackson Hayes.

Starting point is 00:08:00 They definitely want the option of pure size if needed for matchup specific reasons, talking about OKC with Chet and Hartenstein, talking about the Timberwolves with Gobert and Randall, obviously talking about Denver and Yokic. Like, you want to have that. and, you know, he can do some rebounding, particularly in the offensive glass. He can block some shots. And he is, again, a massive human being. If you are looking for an enforcer, he can do something like that. He can deliver some hard files. But I think this is much more about him physically and how long he's been in the league

Starting point is 00:08:46 than his overall skill. If you need to put, I like to think of role guys like this in this way, you know, sort of end of the bench, out of the rotation guys. If you need to put him into the lineup for a week, for two weeks, like, you know, somebody gets hurt. Something happens and you're like, you know what? We need 10 to 15 minutes a game for two weeks from Alex Len. Can he provide us that?

Starting point is 00:09:17 I think the answer is yes. I think if you're looking for high-end minutes, if somebody's going to elevate your team or whatever, the answer is no. But that makes them a perfect player for what the Lakers need here. And like I said, as good as they're going to find on the buyout market, because the buyout market,

Starting point is 00:09:34 you've got your Mobombas of the world, the Lakers have been down that road. They were not super impressed the first time they did the MoBamba thing. And it just, again, you start to, as you go down some of these lists, Daniel Tice is not great either and is smaller. You know, Lent is a much bigger guy than Tice. So, you know, just I have no problem with what the Lakers did here.

Starting point is 00:10:02 What I think it means, however, is that the Lakers are probably going to go small. Yep. A lot. Yep. But before everyone freaks out about small ball, the Lakers, they're a little bit different in what small ball means for them and I'll explain next.

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Starting point is 00:11:11 And Wayfair is helpful. The best part, free and hassle-free delivery. Even for larger items, Wayfair site is easy to navigate. You'll find everything you want. in no time. Again, there is something for every style, for every home to matter the space, no matter the budget. Give your home the refresh it needs with Wayfair. Head to Wayfair.com. Right now, that's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R dot com. Wayfair, every style, every home. So, Andy, you like to point out that the Lakers, when they won the title back in 20, often played quote unquote small ball. But nothing about what they were was actually small.

Starting point is 00:11:59 And our friend Schmidtke Originals posted basically what I was about to get to here. Like when you talk about the Lakers going with small ball, it's all relative because they're going to be putting out lineups, even when Hayes doesn't play that are where nobody is likely going to be under, maybe if Gabe Vincent's playing, but everybody else is going to be 6, 5, 6, 6, 6, 7, 6, 8. There's going to be a lot of length and a lot of size on the floor for the Lakers at all times.

Starting point is 00:12:31 Yeah, I used to refer to as medium ball during that championship season. Marquief Morris was often the key for doing that, but you had Kyle Kuzma, Danny Green was big for his position. KCP could be big for his position. AD is, even if he's not huge in terms of bulk, he's a lot to handle.

Starting point is 00:12:50 LeBron is LeBron and big for most positions. JJ has been, even with Jackson Hayes, the only center on the roster, he's been going to DFS off the bench, often three minutes into the first and third quarters, which is really signaling a lot of these plans. It's not because of anything Jackson's doing wrong. Jackson's actually been playing, I think, pretty well. But some of this is tinkering with the rotations like Jackson plays top of second quarters or the end of first sometimes.

Starting point is 00:13:26 But a lot of this is also some of the Lakers' best players are their big forwards. LeBron, Rui, Vando, DFS, and you're looking for ways to get your best players on the floor. Does it create some compromises with size and rim protection? Yes. But the flip side is putting haze out there. for more minutes that you want. Again, he's been playing well or somebody like Alex Len, you're compromising yourself in other areas. And I think JJ is just very much leaning into something that's been working well of late and also gets most of their best players on the floor.

Starting point is 00:14:06 It may not be the ideal or perfect way to do it, but you have to work with your constraints, particularly when, and we'll get to this, Mark Williams, despite Charlotte's best efforts, is not on the roster. No, or any roster. He's sort of with both two teams and no teams. He is Schrodinger's center, basically. We'll get to that before the show. Yeah, more because it's interesting,

Starting point is 00:14:30 not because it's necessarily going to, you know, it's going to change what's on the Lakers roster. I do want to talk about Hayes here for saying, by the, oh, we forgot to mention, to punctuate what you're saying, Andy, it is worth noting now that the Lakers point guard for all intents and purposes is now six, and, you know, according to Nico Harrison,

Starting point is 00:14:50 270 pounds. So, you know, we got a large point guard. So, you know, he could be the center if we need one. All of this. He weighs more than Alex Lenn. The Lakers are going to be the biggest small team that you're going to find. And we saw against, they did it against Carl Anthony Towns, for example. They did it against the Vizzoobats.

Starting point is 00:15:12 The Lakers have been able to devise defenses. that have given bigs, really good bigs, difficulty over the last couple of weeks. And this is before you had Luke to help organize an offense and guys coming, you know, all of that. So I think they can, they believe that they can make this work. And I do want to say something about Jackson Hayes because a bunch of people, and I forget exactly who they're, you know, on the, particularly on the YouTube page and the regular comments section, not the chat board for the live shows, have really been getting on me about.

Starting point is 00:15:46 how I've been evaluating Hayes. And I want to actually give them some credit. They say I've not been giving him enough credit for how well he's playing, that I'm shortchanging him and all these other stuff by saying, you know, he's limited and all these other things. What the Lakers would be doing, I'm willing to say I don't know if Hayes is good enough to do these things

Starting point is 00:16:13 surrounded by LeBron and Luca, whatever. I am willing, what I'm willing to say that in amend this to is you would be asking Hayes to do things that he has not yet done to this point in his career. Asking him if you play him 25 to 30 minutes a night or something like that to carry a larger burden in higher leverage games than he's ever done. Does that mean he can't do it? I don't know if I'd put my eggs in that basket, but he has played well. So I just want to make sure. In any basket these days, there's an egg shorter. You really can't, I know.

Starting point is 00:16:47 The other day, I was going to make myself an omelet, and I'm like, in this economy, and so I opened a 76 Bordeaux instead and drank that because it was more cost effective. Andy, you have to remember, the special occasion is when you eat the eggs. You don't save the eggs for the special occasion. You know, so I just, it's, I want to acknowledge that Hayes has played well, but I do think there's a danger in trying to extend him past that point of, you know, to, you want to really maximize him and not risk getting kind of a diminishing return by leaving him out and asking you to do too much.

Starting point is 00:17:29 I also, we were talking about the larger forwards on this team and the way they've been playing well defensively. I think the way that they've been offering increased physicality, which I think is not unrelated to, you know, Vando being available, getting more minutes, what Dorian Finney Smith brings, what Gabe Vincent brings, and Gabe has been playing extremely well of late too. This is, I think, also a good place to bring up Jordan Goodwin over the last couple games. He played a lot against Indiana, I think initially in part because of all the players, the Lakers were missing, and Gabe being on a minute's limit, Vando's still on a minute's limit. But then he just started playing

Starting point is 00:18:11 really well, ended up finishing the game, was ahead of Shake Milton in the rotation Monday against Utah. And beyond just playing really well, one of the things that jumped out of me about Goodwin is two game sample size, acknowledged. But with the Lakers, he's averaging six rebounds a game. And it's not really out of character for what he's done being in the league. he's bounced around a lot, but for about 18 minutes a game for his career, he's averaging just under four rebounds a game. That's pretty good for a guard his size. And what's interesting, too, is the way he's been playing offensively and defensively

Starting point is 00:18:55 with that physicality, I assume, because I've never frankly been up close to him or Shake Milton, I assumed Goodwin was bigger than Shake. he's actually smaller. He's about an inch or two shorter, depending on where you look, and about five to ten pounds lighter, depending on where you look. He just plays with a physicality and an edge and a motor

Starting point is 00:19:20 that JJ has been talking about looking for. You've got to see more in terms of figuring out if it's for real. But I'll tell you right now, man, like he's clearly ahead of shake in the rotation. Things may change when other guys, aren't on minutes limits or we figure out Dalton Connect's situation, you know, when he can get back on the court. But he is supposed to, he's supposed to expect to be in uniform and playing on Wednesday.

Starting point is 00:19:48 I will believe he's going to play when I see it just because the situation is so weird, which we're going to talk about. But Goodwin's making a real case for a converted contract. And I think he could get one. But they don't have to do anything because he's not, they don't have 50 games left. So, I mean, the biggest reason you'd convert Goodwin or Coloco or anyone at this point is to make them playoff eligible. If you want to make sure, because the two-way guys are not eligible to be on your playoff roster. And I think, you know, Goodwin, you know, by the way, went to Altaff High in Belleville just outside St. Louis where Andy and I grew up.

Starting point is 00:20:24 Went to Slu. Local guy. That's right. It's he is, he is more of a real point card, point guard. He's much closer to that skill set than Shake. Shake is a score first shooting guard type, who I think the Lakers, when they acquired him, hoped could handle some of that ball handling and whatever. Goodwin's better at it. He's also got 120, 120-something games of NBA experience.

Starting point is 00:20:54 So like Alex Lenn in that regard, you know he's familiar with the game. You can give him a game plan. He can go execute it. You can rely on him to give you decent minutes. in this case, the Lakers faster than they expected. But I think in Goodwin, they've kind of found the skill set that they were maybe hoping Shake Milton would have and it didn't quite work the same way.

Starting point is 00:21:16 So I'm excited for him because it's like, you know, you see these guys who bounce around, get a chance to really come back in and play and play really well. And sometimes a player like Goodwin just needs the opportunity to be dropped in a situation like this. Look at like Gary Payton in Golden State. like kind of bounced around a little bit and then found himself in a great spot that fit what the you know, a skill set with a coaching staff that used him really well.

Starting point is 00:21:42 So that can happen, but he has definitely played extremely well in those couple of games. So he could stick in the rotation a little bit. There's no question. We shall see. Will Mark Williams ever be in the rotation for the language? Anywhere, like for any more. I know. Charlotte is trying to force this.

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Starting point is 00:23:38 Do you want to remind people, sign up for the Locked on Lakers newsletter. You go to Lockedon Daily.com. You see the URL at the bottom of the screen. If you're watching on YouTube, then you click on Locked on Lakers and you have the show and a bunch of other NBA analysis from around the channel delivered to you every single day. So we certainly would appreciate that if you do it. I mean, I've seen a couple of people suggest somebody like Larry Nance, Marby Dogg here says I'd rather have Larry Nance Jr. over Lenn,

Starting point is 00:24:07 but what can you do? The answer is nothing because the Hawks haven't actually released Larry Nance and now you hear chatter that they might actually want to sign him. And so that's really the problem. It's like most players like Nance, they've got to become available and they're kind of too good to let go in that way. The other thing, Lukadansich listed officially as questionable for tonight's game. Redick said he expected both he and LeBron to play in this last game.

Starting point is 00:24:37 before the All-Star break, but I just want to let people know that Luca is questionable. DFS and Gabe are both out for the game, which likely means more Jordan Goodwin. Goodwin fever spreading around Los Angeles. This Mark Williams thing is weird. The Hornets, after writing this completely over-the-top statement that they put out after the failed physical, are now, according to Shams, exploring ways to protest, to undo to have the league overrule the Lakers physical, I don't think it's going to work. I've seen or heard nothing that indicates that it's going to work. And that sort of action

Starting point is 00:25:23 is not a path. I think the league particularly wants to go down, you know, deciding whether or not teams are giving physical in good faith. But that said, it doesn't make it the, he's story any less weird. There would have to be, in my mind, just a smoking gun in terms of serious bad faith actions by the Lakers. And I'm sure the league is going to talk to either the Lakers doctors, an independent doctor, both, and get some people to just break down what they were looking at with Mark Williams is physical, and what about this feels like not having the information that they

Starting point is 00:26:13 needed when they agreed upon this trade? Because remember, Rob Polinka, not that he needed to acknowledge it, I mean, anybody who even follows the NBA knows Mark Williams has missed about two-thirds of the games of his career, but Rob Polinka acknowledged, like there's a history with Mark Williams and injuries. we've seen the standard basic medicals, no surgery, stuff like that, but we need to give a physical. And we talked about this before. I think it is quite possible that whatever spooked the Lakers is something that Charlotte wasn't even aware about, like something that might be a surprise to them in terms of the physical or like, you know,

Starting point is 00:26:55 the severity of whatever. like teams are not always looking for everything with their players while taking care of their health. They're usually focused on the known problem issues and getting them back on the court. But the idea that, you know, the Lakers, Rob Polinka at the last minute got cold feet because of hashtag reasons or just decided like, you know, it's too much to give up. I don't like it now. I'm going back on, or the galaxy brain theory that I've seen floating around social media and Lakers Twitter, that Rob did this, fully knowing he was going to eventually rescind it, but he just wanted to show Luca Donchich, I will go after the players that you want and that, you know, you message to Luca, it's your team, we're working for you. Like that is not just too clever by half. That's like a fireable offense.

Starting point is 00:27:55 Like that is not something that's going to convince Luca to stick around this team. That's going to convince him that it's being run by a bunch of jackdash is running. Are there, is there a subset of tinfoil hat? Oh, yes. I missed. I didn't make this up. I didn't, I didn't come up with this on my own. It's too stupid to come up with.

Starting point is 00:28:14 I was what to say respectfully. That's really stupid. No. I mean, like that's the sort of thing. that makes Luca think this organization's run by a clown show, I'm not going to commit my prime to him. Like, that's just ridiculous. Like, I would be, I would be stunned if there, it is revealed that there is some type of

Starting point is 00:28:36 bad faith on the Lakers part on that type of obvious level, because it's too easy to spot. It's just, yeah, I mean, I think what happened is they, you know, the Lakers had a more stringent. I mean, they probably set the bar pretty high for this, higher than they might, you know, the average physical, but they also were acquiring a player who hadn't played a full season's worth of games if you combine all three of the seasons that he's played in the NBA. It still doesn't equal one full NBA season. So like, you know, a higher threshold might be worth it here.

Starting point is 00:29:13 Again, I don't expect the league to do to intervene here. And until I get news or reporting that says otherwise, I'm going to consider this kind of an interesting side show that is more of a Charlotte Hornets problem than a Lakers problem. And it does mean that, you know, again, with all the players out, I would fully expect that Dalton Connect's going to play for the Lakers on, you know, in tonight's game. Like I know you're a little more suspicious about this stuff, but I connect, you know, was I think given a data sort of process of stuff, but they're going to be down too many guys for him to sit again. Suspicious is a member of the Lakers. Like he is on the word I would use.

Starting point is 00:30:02 It's more this situation is so effing weird that I don't feel comfortable guaranteeing Dalton's going to be out there because I don't really have a template to base this on or any information to base it on. And depending on what Charlotte is wanting or if Dalton somehow got hurt, I'm saying I don't know. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying I genuinely don't know. All I know is if the league does in fact try to interview Lakers, doctors, assuming they don't pick up the phone and say, hi, everybody, I don't think the physical is going to be. overturned. But we'll see. I mean, in some degree, it would make a fascinating story. But like, think about this from Mark Williams's perspective. I feel terrible for him, man. I do too. It's like,

Starting point is 00:30:53 you know, you're arguing, you know, it's a situation where two teams are arguing and the loser gets the player. Usually, like, you would think it would be some sort of opposite situation where two teams are arguing for the rights to have a player. This is the opposite. It's like, no, you take him. And after saying we want him really bad, they're trying to petition the league to make somebody else take him. Here's something we know, I think for sure, definitely on the Lakers side, but quite possibly on the Hornet's side as well, wherever Mark Williams ends up, and I suspect like you, it's going to be Charlotte when all the dust settles. Either place cannot give him the extension that he wants or any type of long-term commitment, like particularly the Lakers. the Lakers cannot say his medicals are so bad that we are looking to do the exceptionally rare

Starting point is 00:31:47 thing and rescind a trade, go back on it because he failed our physical. A player that we knew about health issues and wanted anyway, and they were signaling, this would be our center of the future despite that. You can't take these steps. And then if he somehow ended up a Laker, give him another contract in this offseason or No, the whole thing. The whole thing, screwy. I guess you could and just, you know, give him one that's far below market value.

Starting point is 00:32:16 But it's just, it's a really unfortunate. You might as well get damaged goods tattooed across his forehead. Like, I feel horrible for Mark Williams. It's a really lousy situation for me. Look, the Lakers will come out of this fine. They can explain, you know, the answer for Dalton Connect is very simple. It's like, look, we love you, we drafted you. We believe very much in your talent.

Starting point is 00:32:40 We really needed a center. You were the cost to get a 23-year-old center that we believe could really help us. It's not personal. It's business. Dalton Connect's been to 73 different colleges. He worked, you know, he worked his way up to get to this place where he could play in the league in an incredibly admirable way where a lot of players might have given us. and not believed in their talent. This is not going to derail him.

Starting point is 00:33:10 He is going to be fine. I mean, it's to be like when Powell got traded and then wasn't traded anymore. And he was like, great. You know, Powell tried to get himself back to the Lakers after they traded him. Well,

Starting point is 00:33:21 for a little while, and then he was ready to get the hell out. But the difference though, you know, that, but initially he was, he was able to come back. And Powell was.

Starting point is 00:33:30 He was. He was far more established in the league. And deserving of, quote, unquote, you know, the, you know, and more able to be like offended by being traded than don't connect. Well, look, Powell Gasol and especially Lamar Odom, like that trade was upsetting to both. We covered the team. We were around those guys.

Starting point is 00:33:51 Powell was incredibly sick of being asked like, you know, when do you think you're going to get traded? Do you think you're going to stay? Like, I mean, he was incredibly tired of it. Lamar said trade me anyway. Like he could not go back. But those guys at least had agency with the team. Like they'd won championships. Right.

Starting point is 00:34:10 That's my point. Like Connect doesn't have that. No. And I mean, they did not trade for an upgrade over Dalton. They traded for something he can't do, which is be seven feet tall or seven two, have a nine wing span. Yeah. Once he gets.

Starting point is 00:34:25 Staying in reach. Processed by it. Once he processes all this stuff, it's going to be fine. I am not in the slightest bit worried about Dalton Connect's ability. to kind of reconnect the team. But we'll see who plays in tonight's game. Obviously, everyone's hopeful that Luca plays his second game with the Lakers. We get another opportunity to both watch him play,

Starting point is 00:34:47 but the Lakers get another opportunity to get a run in with LeBron and Luca before the All-Star break. And so, again, the more you do that, the more you come out, the more reps you get, the better off the Lakers are going to be. So we'll see, obviously, though, you do not want to risk any type of injury to Dantuch, who's going to get the All-Star break to sit down and finish this process of getting himself ready to play. Locked on Lakers on YouTube is where you can go hang out with about 32,000 subscribers to the channel. We, of course, will be back after the game. Check out the postcast with Dave Palais as well and the Locked-on Lakers newsletter.

Starting point is 00:35:23 Go to LockedonDaily.com. We'll see everyone after the game.

Locked On Lakers - Daily Podcast On The Los Angeles Lakers - The Lakers Sign Alex Len, and the Hornets Want to Un-Rescind the Mark Williams Trade.

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