Locked On Lakers - Daily Podcast On The Los Angeles Lakers - What if Small Ball Is (Still) the Best Lineup for the Lakers?

Starting point is 00:00:00 Lots of Lakers fans think small ball is a failure. So why is J.J. Reddick looked like he's going back to it? We'll explain next. You are Locked-on Lakers. Your daily Los Angeles Lakers podcast, part of the Locked-on Podcast Network, your team every day. Thanks to everybody for making Locked on Lakers, your first listen of Every Day Monday through Friday,

Starting point is 00:00:32 sometimes on weekends, even on holidays, no matter how you get your podcast, maybe that's Apple. Maybe that's Spotify. Andy, maybe you're one of the 37,000-plus subscribers to the Locked-on Lakers YouTube channel. I see you here every day, so I know you're a regular. Maybe no matter how you do it, you are part of making the Locked-on Podcast Network, the number one sports podcast network in this or any other known universe, and we appreciate you doing that.

Starting point is 00:01:02 I'm Brian Kinnitsky. Oh. Sorry, I did. Hold for applause. I'm Brian Kaminetsky with A. You can busy to that. You know, I'm messing around a little bit with the sound buttons. I want to try to keep the show fresh.

Starting point is 00:01:23 I'm Brian Kiminoski with Andy Kaminatsky, nearly 20 years covering the Lakers with ESPN, with the Athletic, with the L.A. Times. And this Gramey road trip every year since we've been doing this, it's a doozy. We'll get to this small ball question I raised in the open there in just a moment. We do want to let people know, though, Austin Reeves is not going to play this afternoon, Wednesday afternoon in Cleveland. The hope is that he'll be back before the end of the road trip.

Starting point is 00:01:56 But Andy, since this road trip seems to go on forever, there's still plenty of chances for Austin to play. Yeah, I believe it ends in April. So between now and then, I'd like to think Austin's going to return. There had been some hope that he could be available Wednesday night in Cleveland, but he's not, I think, whether Friday versus the Wizard Sunday versus the Knicks, Tuesday versus the Nets, all indications are they're pretty confident that Austin will be able to play in at least one of those games. if for no other reason, then given how cautious this team tends to be and KG about information regarding injuries,

Starting point is 00:02:42 and they generally do not want to ever give the indication of overpromising and under-delivering when it comes to that specific thing, they'll just let you think that somebody is day-to-day for a year looking at you, Kendrick Nunn. But they generally do not give anything like even semi-concrete information. Like JJ said, we are expecting in the return. He's been doing more full court workouts, stuff with full contact, things like that. They're not going to let that info out and voice it the way they did unless they are not pretty confident he's going to be back. Yeah, unless they met next year's Grammy Road trip. But you never know.

Starting point is 00:03:28 We weren't that specific. So we'll keep an eye out for that. Obviously, JJ will be asked about it at the very least before the game Wednesday afternoon in Cleveland, Wednesday evening, depending on how you want to look at it. No one and Mowgli, by the way. Correct. Stop me if you've heard this before.

Starting point is 00:03:51 Calf strain. Yeah. Out one to three weeks. The rare player not coming back before. they play the Lakers. Sam Merrill, though, will be available because anybody who knows how to shoot a three-pointer will always hurry back to get an opportunity to play the Lakers. So somebody to watch on the perimeter for Cleveland, very effective three-point shooter. So let's talk about small ball, Andy, because if you talk about small ball, particularly after the way the playoffs went last

Starting point is 00:04:24 season, the Lakers losing to Minnesota. When you talk about small ball, people, many Lakers fans get upset. They don't want to hear about small ball. They don't want to talk about small ball. They don't want anybody to be playing small ball. Nothing small around here, folks. This from Trevor Lane, though, we talked to, for yesterday's show about the success the Lakers have had with Rue Hachamara on the floor of late. from Trevor, the great Lakers Nation guy. Small sample size warning, but the Lakers are a plus 28.8 per 100 possessions in 255 possessions with Rui Hachamora on the court without a center. That means no D'Andre Aiton, no Jackson Hayes, no Maxi Claibah.

Starting point is 00:05:10 Trevor goes on to say an ultra-switchie foundation featuring some combo of LeBron, Rui Vando, with Lucas Martin, LaRavia has noticeably ramped up their defensive pressure. and floor spacing. The deeper into the season we get, the more we're being pulled back into a lineup that resembles Reddick's most trusted group last year, Luca Reeves, Rui, Dorian Finney Smith, and LeBron. Andy, you're a Lakers fan.

Starting point is 00:05:39 IRL, baby. What say you? It's interesting. When you and I were texting, just doing show prep and stuff like that coming up with topics, you would ask me whether or not I thought that this is fools goal, like the success that Trevor cited. Yeah, okay, go on.

Starting point is 00:05:59 That's the way you framed it. It was whether or not- It's one of the questions people can ask for sure. And it was one that you asked me, you know, as we were going back and forth. And I thought about it. And what I really landed on, it depends on how you're defining fools goal. Like last year, I think people got. got ahead of themselves, thinking the Lakers could make a deep playoff run.

Starting point is 00:06:23 And it ended up getting bounced in the first round by the wolves. And there's some extenuating circumstances and context that we should get into and will. But bottom line, like the Royal Wee and I would include us in that specific way, got a bit ahead of ourselves. So I think if you are thinking about this look as the key that was uncovered to get to the finals, yeah, it could very well be Fool's Gold because it is unusual to see teams with this type of personnel

Starting point is 00:06:52 have the type of defense over multiple rounds to reach the finals, like to get through it. But I think if you treat this as simply the best of some flawed options with a likely ceiling that will require them to catch some breaks,

Starting point is 00:07:09 but they can at the same time also have some really impressive and effective possessions or sustain minutes, things like that, then I don't think it's fools gold because I think you're not treating it as gold in the first place. Like I think a lot of this, and this is really taking lessons from last season, and again, some of the context that we'll get into, I think a lot of this has to do with treating it properly in the first place. Okay.

Starting point is 00:07:38 I can see where you're going with that. It's certainly more aggressive than I would have. I mean, when I talk about fools gold, I just mean that again, you know, as Trevor points out, small sample size theater, that, you know, you could argue that it's just not going to be effective once you start getting into the playoffs at all. As opposed to the other stuff? I think that, you know, with the way you're describing it, I don't think there is a gold. Like, there's not a, that's important to remember, though.

Starting point is 00:08:11 If you're defining gold as large as the thing that can get them into the finals, then I don't think that's an option. For me, the question is not whether or not it's something that they would start leaning into, and as soon as you get in the playoffs, you're going to run into a buzzsaw. The question is there's two of them, as I think about it. First, is the lineup working? And if the lineup works, the lineup works. If you have success going relatively small, particularly in crunch time,

Starting point is 00:08:51 I don't think you could do it all game, but particularly in crunch time. The Lakers tried to do it last year as much throughout games as they've known. Well, especially in the playoffs, that gets, that's going to get to my second point. Well, JJ's preferred lineup at parts in the finals, the game is only lineup. You like that one. That one. Yeah. That would really like that one lineup.

Starting point is 00:09:15 Yeah. I don't think I'm ever going to get past that. You are not. Nope. So there is the basic question. Does the lineup work? Are you successful with that alignment out on the floor? And the answer last year was generally yes.

Starting point is 00:09:33 And the answer this year in this small sample size has been yes for reasons that makes sense. you're going to have especially when Austin's back, your three best players, plus a legitimate floor spacer in Rui with LeBron at the part of the game that he can put out the most amount of energy where Luca is most focused defensively, where you can have Marcus Smart out there.

Starting point is 00:10:01 You have choices here in ways to arrange this lineup that particularly for five or six or seven minutes at the end of a game when everybody's locked in, could be pretty formidable, I think, for teams to have to deal with. So there is that. That's point number one. The lineup objectively does it work? It appears so early we'll find out more over the next few games.

Starting point is 00:10:25 The second point, though, I think gets to what you were talking about before and what kind of, I think, fans might be overlooking when they react the way they do to Smallball. We'll explain it next. I carry a lot of responsibility in my household. If something happened to me, there would be serious consequences. We have a mortgage. We've got tuition. We've got everyday bills. Those aren't going anywhere if something happens to me.

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Starting point is 00:11:51 and rates may vary. Before we keep going, Andy, I do want to remind people of today's episodes brought to you by Fanduel. It's the last call for football on Fandual. If you're a new customer, you can bet just $5 to get $200 in bonus bets if you win. So, look,

Starting point is 00:12:12 I mean, a lot of teams go small. it is not unusual these days. The Lakers can do it still with a decent amount of length on the floor. Small doesn't necessarily mean five guards. All that. The problem with small ball in the playoffs last year, which is where the Lakers have, Lakers fans have the most trauma,

Starting point is 00:12:37 is not that the Lakers had a preferred small ball lineup. It's that as you mentioned, it was their only lineup. You know, when they didn't have any other centers, when they kind of decided Jackson Hayes was essentially unplayable and we don't have to relitigate that. I don't think he was very good in that series. Once you made that choice, all you were left with small ball,

Starting point is 00:12:59 it was small ball. The question isn't what lineup is most effective for the Lakers. If you think you want to try to win a round or two in the playoffs, you can roll with that most effective lineup whenever you think you can, as long as you have other options that you can go to. And I think the Lakers would still be able to go big. They've had success of late with these sort of center with Timmy

Starting point is 00:13:27 and all these larger lineups that they've tried. It's not been unsuccessful. And I think it's way too early to bury D'Andre Aiton, which by the way is a lot of where this conversation comes from. it's too early to bury Jackson Hayes, who is a much better version of the guy that he was last year. So if the Lakers have viable alternatives, then a preference for small ball particularly down the stretch shouldn't bother anyone. It's only when they don't that people should get alarmed. Well, I mean, two points on that.

Starting point is 00:14:04 First of all, I think on balance, they have better personnel overall for this over longer sustained, periods if they find that this is at least a piece of their best look than the last season. Like I think Jake Laravia and Marcus Smart both fit the scheme well. Vando is necessary for a look like this to be sustainable for either longer chunks of games or even some of the crunch time. And has been more viable this year than one. Well, I was going to say, JJ, at least for the time being, has way more trust in Vando than he did last season or just in the beginning.

Starting point is 00:14:41 of this season, or for that matter, JJ trusts Jake and Marcus more than he trusted Vando or Jordan Goodwin in the playoffs. And like, once you start eliminating two guys who actually are important for a look like that, you start limiting your ability to do it with any type of sustainability. If for no other reason, then it gets tiring. Like, it gets really taxing. So, you need more dudes that you will put out there to actually do it. Also, too, I mean, as far as thinking about this through the prism of last season and the playoffs, like, if Austin gets hurt during the playoffs or Luca is, you know, last year Austin got hurt during the playoffs or was dealing with that toe injury.

Starting point is 00:15:27 Luca was still dealing with the effects of a recent injury upon getting traded to the Lakers. And LeBron got hurt during the series. So like in that sense, if your top three. players are lesser versions of themselves than the defensive strategy or frankly, any strategy you're talking about becomes kind of irrelevant because you're not going to go anywhere if your top three players are in compromised versions of themselves. The other reason, though, I think this may work better than last season is JJ's just mixing up more looks, period. He's doing more things. He's moving more outside his comfort zone. He's moving more outside of things that I

Starting point is 00:16:06 think don't really match his basketball ethos or philosophy worldview, but he's starting to recognize I have to move outside that more and coach the roster and the situation that I have. A great example is the two on the ball look that he did against Jamal Murray and the win over Denver. That is something JJ has on the record said many times, I don't want to do that. He recognized we have to do that. And I think he has said, we are searching for answers. We're going to get weird at times.

Starting point is 00:16:41 I applaud him for doing that because I think for, frankly, for a lot of last year and even some of this year, JJ was sticking with the same thing for too long when it wasn't effective and just expecting it to somehow become better than it was because that's the way he saw the game or saw the roster or whatever. This year, I think he's doing a better job of just shaking things up, keeping guys engaged through shaking things up, keeping them on their toes. And I think it's, I think it is part of what's made things more effective. Yeah, I mean, I agree with, you know, certainly chunks of that at the very least. It's they have the roster to me is the big issue here because I realize it is extraordinarily top heavy. It is extremely thin, I think, in a lot of ways. You have guys who are forced to play rotation minutes,

Starting point is 00:17:40 Gabe Vincent, for example, who are not playable. I respect the hell out of Gabe Vincent and the work that it's taken for him to establish himself in the league. He is a professional. He really is. You know, JJ gets made fun of for that. I wish I had 10 Gabe Vinci. Vincent's comments, but from a coaching standpoint, he is the type of professional that every

Starting point is 00:18:09 coach wishes they had one through 15. He is not good enough right now to be part of a high-level playoff rotation. Just, man, forget high-level playoff rotation. There's a real question about assuming he's on the team after the deadline, once Austin's back, if he should be getting any minutes at all. I only, I don't think he's going to play very much at all. But I mean, I didn't I just mean, like, if you're a team, he is currently playing rotation minutes on a team that, at least publicly, will tell you, they have, you know, they're aiming for a long playoff run. Gabe Vincent is in their rotation. He's not good. You know, he just, he's, he's not nearly a good enough shooter to justify, you know, defensively, the effort is there.

Starting point is 00:18:57 He's too easy to pick on. inside the three-point arc he is borderline useless offensively. It's just not working. The Lakers seem to have found something in Timmy, but you've got to be real careful how you use it. There is a point of diminishing returns if you have to lean on him too much. The back end of their rotation is just kind of dicey. but it's still better suited right now, I think, to compete than it was last year because

Starting point is 00:19:35 Hayes is better. DeAndre Aitin, for all the ups and downs that we've seen over the last, you know, three weeks or so is still far more competent than, you know, nobody, which is their option last year. Maxie, you know, or like the, the fingers crossed hope that maybe Maxie, Claibah could play like, Aiton's still a competent NBA player. You know, you have, you've added Timmy, you have La Ravia, you have just, they're better suited right now to make that. Because remember, Doreen Phiney Smith in the playoffs last year was terrible.

Starting point is 00:20:12 He was really, he was banged up. He was ineffective. And so, you know, it's not, you have to judge this by the actual player that was on the floor, not the concept of the DFS that everybody liked. Or what he brought to the locker room leadership. All those things mattered. Like they absolutely mattered. But DFS started out the half season he was with the Lakers,

Starting point is 00:20:37 much stronger than he ended it. And to your point, he was hurt. That's why he missed the opening, what, 30-ish games for the Rockets? Yeah. He needed surgery. You know, again, for the time being, Luca is healthier right now than he was for really, I think, all of the last half season with the Lakers. LeBron is healthier right now.

Starting point is 00:21:03 Ciatica recovery, foot joint arthritis, maintenance, and all than he was by the end of the playoffs, where he said, had there been a game six, I would not have been able to play. Yeah, the knee injury couldn't play. And I know Austin's coming off an injury, but right now, but hopefully, when he returns, there are no setbacks, there's no anything else. And if that's the case, he will likely be a better version of what he was than in the playoffs last year. Again, this all makes a huge contextual difference. It doesn't necessarily mean it'll make enough of a difference for a deep playoff run, but you got to work with what you have. It also means that when if in these

Starting point is 00:21:44 moments where they go to small ball, they can do so strategically and from a place of perceived advantage rather than necessity where it is literally the only lineup you feel like you can play or as it was in game four, the only lineup you play. All right. So let's talk, Andy, the trade deadline. It's coming up very quickly. Dave McMedeman from ESPN wrote some interesting stuff about what the Lakers might be thinking as we get closer. We'll do it next. Locked on Lakers. He is brought to you by Fanduel. It's finally settled. The last team standing in the NFL, we know the matchups, Patriots, Seahawks, Super Bowl 60, Fan Duel is making sure you're right in the middle of it with a special offer just in time for the biggest game of the year.

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Starting point is 00:25:29 And if you sign up by the trade deadline on February 5th, you can use the code deadline to get your first month free. Tap the link in the show notes to learn more. All right, Andy, Dave McManneman, breaking down stuff about what the Lakers might be doing. And so, you know, he talks about how the Lakers haven't had much luck getting Austin and Luca and LeBron on the floor together at the same time.

Starting point is 00:25:53 They've only shared the court together for eight games. That's insane, by the way, side note. It kind of is. And by the way, the Lakers have won a lot of basketball games despite all this. That's part of what makes it insane. It would stand a reason for the Lakers to make moves on the margins around these three, but there has to be at least some consideration of the fact that James and Reeves are both impending free agents holding to their most current,

Starting point is 00:26:16 holding on to their most current coveted asset. Their 2031 or 22 first round pick could be needed to use. it as part of a bigger deal when the NBA business calendar turns over this summer and they'll have more picks available to put in a package possibly to replace part of their core. But he continues. In the past month, league sources have told the SBA and the Lakers of Canvas teams to see whether they could find a deal to send up their 2031 or 32 first round pick in order to get multiple first round picks back for it.

Starting point is 00:26:49 That would give them more stuff to trade as well as throwing in those expiring contracts like Gabe or Maxi or if it were the right deal, somebody like Rui. So I guess more talk of the Lakers kind of doing stuff on the margins, but also talk perhaps of the need to take advantage of this big three, trying to get creative perhaps by seeing if they could turn one first round pick into two or three first round picks. I'm very curious to see what the pitch is to this other team. You know that pick that we're not sure how good it may be down the future? What say you take it from us and give us three of your own?

Starting point is 00:27:35 That works really well. If you know you're sitting on like a lottery pick this season. Like, hey, we have Utah's first round pick. We have Washington's first round pick. We'll dangle that out there. We'll give you that, but we want two first rounders and a swap or a second. I could see how that, especially in the draft upcoming, that could get somebody's attention. We want to see if you can give us two first rounders for one first rounder in 2013 when Luca will still be like 30.

Starting point is 00:28:13 And you have no idea if the Lakers are going to be good or bad. That seems like a tough sell. Well, I just, I would honestly, I would. love to be, I mean, I would love to be in the room when these sort of talks happen anyway, just because it would be really, I mean, look, years, years ago, Brian and I did a piece for ESPN the magazine. And it was during the, how long ago it was, it was during the Dirk Nash era of the Mavericks. But we actually got to sit in one of those meetings, like observing, it wasn't draft day. It was just a front office basketball related meeting. We are not allowed to report

Starting point is 00:28:54 anything that went on just to get the vibe of it. Seeing that in and of itself was pretty damn interesting. But I would love to see how Rob pitches the idea of we give you one pick. You give us three and and and and or even one and a second round. You give us three picks. We give you one. But we also, I mean, I guess maybe if a team is that desperate to get off some finances, maybe it involves taking back some money, I don't know, but either way, we'd love to see the pitch. When I see things like this,

Starting point is 00:29:30 you know my position on this has long been that the Lakers are very aware of public opinion. They're very aware of the perception, and Dave actually writes about this a little bit in his story that like the there will be a a sense of disappointment certainly among the Lakers fans and in the media it would be seen perhaps as something they could beat up a little bit just because here you go another deadline goes back by without much action now granted the Lakers I was going to say I mean last year the Lakers may not have made a

Starting point is 00:30:11 deadline day move I think it is very samed. antics heavy to say that they weren't doing much around the deadline. Right. And I, and I, you know, the counter to, okay, they had Luca handed to him, which is true, is you're also put in a situation like that where your entire organization has been completely turned upside down and trying, like, trying to fix that on the fly at one deadline. It's not good. But now you, then you go into the off season, the Lakers were hamstrung.

Starting point is 00:30:46 but Rob Polink had made big noise about, we're going to be aggressive out there. All of a sudden that turned very quickly into, you know, you need to have multiple dance partners to make anything work. And so, you know, there's always this feeling from Lakers fans that Polinka's kicking the can down the road,

Starting point is 00:31:03 but the next one, Andy, the next one is going to be the one where the Lakers really make their big, bold moves. So I think they're very sensitive to that. I think Rob is sensitive to that. I also think they both don't, really want to do anything big because they'd rather wait for the summertime when they have

Starting point is 00:31:22 more cap flexibility and more draft pick flexibility. Which in a vacuum can be a defensible approach. 100%. And I also think that they are also in a box where they, it's going to be very hard for them to do anything. So, you know, in some ways it's actually a good deadline for Rob. You can talk about stuff and look aggressive and leak things to the media and make it look like the Lakers are being very active and turning over every rock and stone. Knowing full well, he probably won't be able to do anything big anyway. So that's how I take all of these things. I mean, I don't totally read it that way, if for no other reason then by now they should realize that if this is a strategy, like a PR messaging strategy, it ain't working. So that

Starting point is 00:32:15 Well, I agree with that. No, but I'm saying that's why I don't treat it purely as just trying to message because if nothing else, you would attempt a different message because you have exhausted this one messaging. And if you think you're doing it to gain cover, you know, there are many things about this organization that they don't do vigilantly enough. We've talked about it. One of those things is not.

Starting point is 00:32:43 not listen to what everybody says about them. We know for a fact, this is a rabbit ears organization. Sure. I just think we look at it differently. I think that's partially why they do this stuff. That's fine. I just, I if you are correct at the very least, they are both massively and inexplicably overrating the effectiveness of this messaging. Oh, I would agree with that. I think, I think there's an element of, you know, one of Rob's favorite words is optionality. I think there is a, I think Rob likes to sometimes leave optionality out there to the point of never actually taking a path. I also just think Rob often is not, this is why they need a larger front office. There are certain detail pieces of this in building a roster that I don't think

Starting point is 00:33:38 are high on Rob's to do list. And those are some. of the things that you would be doing around the deadline. I also feel like... I think he only likes doing the thing that is plainly obvious to be the... Right. In fairness, though, to Rob, to whatever degree this is messaging, real, whatever, and for what it is worth, the way Dave wrote this thing, it felt much more like, at least to me, Dave editorializing his thoughts on this as opposed to something he was being fed.

Starting point is 00:34:10 Obviously, his editorializing comes from him knowing the front office very well. You know, Dave has been doing this for a very long time. He's very good at this stuff. But it didn't feel to me like him being fed stuff. Regardless, what I think in fairness to Rob may be a complicating factor, regardless of whatever they want fans to think, this may not be a very active deadline. There is an expectation that particularly with Janus so unsettled and injured and, And the fact that he's injured could prevent teams from trading for him because they don't know exactly when he's going to be back. They don't know if he will be available, much less effective during the playoffs.

Starting point is 00:34:54 There is an expectation that a lot of teams are going to want to keep themselves plausibly Janus viable. And until they know exactly that Janus is off the table for them, they are only, going to go so drastic into this deadline anyway. They're only going to be so aggressive because they want to hang on to what they have that might help them with Janus. My hope is that if the Lakers are not active at the deadline, it is simply because there weren't enough other teams active to create partners or they didn't say what they like.

Starting point is 00:35:30 I really hope it is not because they just want to wait around for that chance that they might get Janus. I think it's less about that. I do. Good. They would, I think they are, they see, and again, I think with some cause that there is, they're a better chance to do more stuff in a more coherent environment of the off season than they do with, you know, this trade deadline. Now that said, there are deals out there, names out there.

Starting point is 00:36:09 where it could potentially make sense, as you say, to start building out next year's team this year. And that is something that we can carry on through the rest of the week. Obviously, we will be back after the game Wednesday evening in Cleveland to break it all down for you. Lockdownickers on YouTube is where you can go hang out with over 37,000 subscribers. Check out the everydayer club there thing and we'll see you tomorrow.

Locked On Lakers - Daily Podcast On The Los Angeles Lakers - What if Small Ball Is (Still) the Best Lineup for the Lakers?

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