Locked On Lakers - Daily Podcast On The Los Angeles Lakers - Will LeBron Play Hardball With the Lakers? Why His $ Is About Much More than LeBron

Starting point is 00:00:00 Rob Polink is facing a challenging offseason. Will it get even more so if LeBron James plays hardball with the Lakers? That's next. You are Locked on Lakers. Your daily Los Angeles Lakers podcast, part of the Locked on Podcast Network, your team every day. Thanks to everybody for stopping by Locked on Lakers, Brian Komenesky, Andy Kamininski,

Starting point is 00:00:28 plenty to unpack as the Lakers get into the offseason, including some interesting commentary on how. how the Lakers think they might be able to put together a roster this offseason that is better than the one that just finished fourth in the West this year. It probably would have finished third and some late season injuries you may have heard about, not occurred. So we're getting that a minute. We're also going to talk a little bit about LeBron James,

Starting point is 00:00:52 who has a huge influence on all of these roster matters. I want to let everybody know that today's episode is brought to you by GameTime, download the GameTime app, create, use code, locked on for $20 off your first purchase. So we are now four days into the Lakers offseason, Andy, and the LeBron James chatter machine is already really running in full offseason efficiency. We talked about it for Wednesday show, some of the issues that go, I'm sorry, Thursday show, some of the issues that go into potentially bringing LeBron back. But Brian Winhorse was on get up on ESPN on Thursday. and really drove a lot of the potential challenges in signing LeBron, really drove him home.

Starting point is 00:01:43 Well, it's interesting. I imagine we'll get into this as well. We're framing this at least initially through the prism of LeBron and the negotiations required to bring him back. But these type of negotiations and questions and money will apply to Austin Reeves. It'll apply to Rui Hachamura. it'll apply to a lot of different guys as the Lakers try to improve this roster, but also have a few free agents who they may not be able to do better than in terms of trying to replace them. But at the same time, they only have a certain amount of money to pay these guys if they want to try to keep them and improve the roster.

Starting point is 00:02:27 So all of this stuff gets pretty sticky. But beginning with LeBron, and this is. some of what Winhorse had to say. Quote, the Lakers have a problem. The Lakers don't want to lose LeBron James. They don't want to lose his 21.7 rebound, seven assists a game, but they don't want to pay $50 million for it because the rest of the league isn't going to come bidding $50 million.

Starting point is 00:02:46 And Winhorse goes on to say, but here's the reality. If you have a superstar player and LeBron is still an all-star player, still a top 25, 20 to 25 player in the league, it's very difficult to ask that player to take a pay cut, whether he's 21 or 41, goes on to say, if you want LeBron to take a pay cut, you can't just indeterminately say, hey, take a pay cut. You better give him a reason to take a pay cut and concluded by saying, but the concept that he's just not good anymore and that he's only worth $30 million instead of $50 million, you're not getting that from LeBron James. LeBron doesn't believe that.

Starting point is 00:03:20 I don't expect him to accept that. And I'll tell you one thing. If you're the Lakers, if you force LeBron to leave, he'll go somewhere else and play for less money. He won't want to stay for the Lakers and play for less money if he thinks it's an insult. So a lot to unpack from there. It reminds me a little bit. The power dynamics are a little bit different. It reminds me a little bit of a few good men when Tom Cruise is trying to get Jack Nicholson to like turn over the flight logs or whatever it was.

Starting point is 00:03:46 He's like I will, but you have to ask nicely. I'll take a pay cut, but you have to stay, please. You know, so it's like it's not quite that. But that was the thing that came to my mind when I, when I heard. this. Yeah. What I think what I think is going to be really interesting about this is a how LeBron defines respect in all of this. Like what does he consider respectful? What does he and this is by the way a topic that has been recurrent for LeBron. We talked earlier in the week about Dave McMenemann's piece from ESPN about LeBron feeling taken for granted by the organization and

Starting point is 00:04:28 game ball gate after that win over the cavaliers where there were a bunch of different achievements that night in milestones including for LeBron and Rob Polinka ended up giving the game ball to J.J. Reddick, which made LeBron feel unappreciated for his own milestone. And I think it was in a lot of ways reinforcing things that he had been feeling anyway. So how LeBron defines respect in all of this, I think is going to be very important. How. he defines the matter, you know, the principle of the matter, like how he defines that, because it seems like, you know, both in, both in things we've heard about LeBron and his relationship with the Lakers anyway, there is principle of the matter things going on, but certainly the way Winhorse did. But how he defines this is going to matter because the reality is LeBron understands how a salary cap works. And he understands why giving him as close to his current salary as possible is. is not going to allow the Lakers to retool themselves into a championship roster. It will be a major impediment.

Starting point is 00:05:35 Now, LeBron may say, that ain't my problem. That's your guys' job. This is my market value. Or he may say, I don't think you guys can do it anyway. So, you know, as they said in Goodfellas, F you pay me. But like, the idea that LeBron can't understand the obstacles, no. LeBron's a really smart guy. He's been in the league now 23 seasons.

Starting point is 00:05:58 He knows exactly what the ramifications are. Sure. And, you know, I, I, so much of this, like, you look, there is a universe in which LeBron is approaching this of I just don't, I will not accept a penny less from the Lakers than I think I am worth. You know, this is the team that I know has the flexibility to give me what my value is and I'm just not going to take less. I don't think that's the world that we live in. I don't think that's the reality.

Starting point is 00:06:30 LeBron is searching for and that because with one caveat. Continue. I'll let you finish. Yeah, caveat first. Then I'll finish. He's looking for the out to leave. And he's using. Okay.

Starting point is 00:06:43 Yeah, we'll get, we'll get. Right. We'll get to that. But assuming he does want to stay in the reporting, or the very least is very interested in staying, the reporting is accurate there. And the, the Lakers want him to stay. And the reporting is accurate there. we can talk about, you know, we don't do it now, but like you can talk about the enormous,

Starting point is 00:07:02 you know, sort of sea change in that equation over the last three or four months. But assuming there is genuine mutual interest, I don't think LeBron expects to get certainly not 50 million or even 40 million from the Lakers. I'm not even sure he, I'm not sure he would take it, but I'm not sure he would want that in the context of, like you said, trying to build a winning team. And also, this is the first time LeBron's going to enter this situation where no other team that he would play for can pay him that kind of money. The Brooklyn Nets can.

Starting point is 00:07:48 LeBron's not going to be a Brooklyn net. The Chicago Bulls can't. LeBron's not going to Chicago to play for that team. So, you know, if he doesn't sign for whatever number the Lakers have, it's a matter of taking somebody's exception or something like that, creating some kind of sign and trade, which would not be easy. You know, all of those scenarios. So, I mean, there is, like you said, the reality of it. But I think how I read this is, you know, when Wendy talks about, you know, you have to come with a reason. There are two aspects of this that I think are really important.

Starting point is 00:08:24 The first one is acknowledging that LeBron is still a very good player. I think the temptation can be sort of like, well, we're going to, and this is where I think the Lakers in LeBron's mind have sort of made the mistakes that he makes him feel slighted. They don't care. But like kind of making, you're almost too happy to have moved on. It's not that you've built the team around Luca or that Luca is the focus in the future. it's that I'm still here and I'm still performing at a very high level

Starting point is 00:09:00 and I'm still doing things that I'm doing everything that you're asking me to do in year 23, changing radically changing how I play. A little bit of love would be nice. Is it, should he care about that? I can argue about it. Maybe maybe not.

Starting point is 00:09:19 It's all, a lot of this is ego. They all have it. But next, I want to, to talk about, though, the part that I think is really key to, I think, my interpretation, at least, of what Wendy's talking about. We'll get to it next. Locked on Lakers is brought to you by game time. There's nothing like playoff intensity live, the crowd, the rivalries. It is a completely different experience seeing a playoff game in the building. And the NBA playoffs are where unforgettable moments happen and being there,

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Starting point is 00:12:12 We love you just the same. Real quick, before we continue this conversation, we wanted to make sure to give a shout-out to Lisa Leslie. It was announced that she is going to be getting a statue in front of crypto.com, I believe, in September. Obviously, she's a WNBA legend. She is a Sparks legend. She is also an L.A. legend played at Morningside High, 101 points in a game, which is absolutely insane. Also, because Brian and I have worked with her on a few different things over the years for ESPN, incredibly nice person. And she-

Starting point is 00:12:49 You like that USC, Andy, which is weird for you. Oh, yeah. That is true. As a Trojan. Actually, she was in my dorm, my freshman year. She was on a different floor, but I remember thinking to myself the first time I saw Lisa Leslie, that is the tallest woman I've ever seen in my life. I'm guessing she's probably 6'5 or 6'6, 6, 6, like in that range. But she is just really, really nice person. You will never hear a bad thing about her. And it's obviously very, very well-deserved. So really cool.

Starting point is 00:13:20 She is 6-5, for the record. All right. So I think a lot of this is a, you know, and you remember the famous run our test, acknowledge me, please. There's a, there's an element of that to this. There is not just come to me with, if you need me to put $30 million back on the table with a plan as to why, you know, what are we going to do with it? Here's where it's going to go. This is how we're going to, these are the types of players we're going to try to pursue. is why we're doing it. We're looking for longer-term contracts from X, Y, and Z. Okay. I think that's part of it. It's important because that gets to the, are the Lakers the most competitive place that I can play? Especially given that my family's here. I don't really want to

Starting point is 00:14:09 move. I'm not sure what the fit is in other places. I know what the fit is here. The other part of it, though, and I think this is what Wendy noted when he's like, LeBron is still an all-star. he's a star player in this league he's an all-star i don't care you know he is older he is 42 he's going to be 42 next year still made the all-star team last year and if you're going to ask any all-star to take a significant pay cut i think there needs to be both an explanation but also an acknowledgment um you know in some way the lakers make it clear like look we we have we is still an excellent player in this league still an all-star in this league and lebron is playing for less than his value because he wants to stay in L.A. and wants to help build a winner

Starting point is 00:14:59 here. Some sort of acknowledgement of that, I think, goes a long way to making this process work. Sure. I mean, here's the thing, though. They have done everything that you've mentioned in terms of public acknowledgement other than LeBron taking a pay cut because he hasn't yet done that. that. They have said all these things that you've mentioned. I can't speak to the dynamics between LeBron and Rob Polink, a Jeannie Bus, inside the building. But outwardly, these are the things that they say about LeBron. And I say this just because to some degree to make this work, whether you're talking about presenting the reasons to LeBron that this is necessary, other than the just plainly obvious, we can't make the team better with you getting $40 to $50 million.

Starting point is 00:15:51 We can't do it. It gets back to the idea that there's going to have to be mutual trust. And both sides, whatever tensions are being felt on either side, to at least make this piece of it work where nobody feels resentful, there's going to have to be at best trust, at worst just letting some stuff go. If you're going to be anticipating the slights that have not yet happened

Starting point is 00:16:22 or from the Lakers end, if they're going to be anticipating whatever they don't like from LeBron that hasn't yet happened, then both sides are going to be unhappy, even if they end up staying together. No, I think

Starting point is 00:16:38 you're 100% right. And you mention it too. This is not just a LeBron thing. This is an Austin thing. This is a Rui thing. This is a market smart thing. Because if, you know, if, you know, smart is going to need, you know, if the Lakers are going to keep smart around for a while,

Starting point is 00:17:00 like I think they'd love to come up with a contract structure that allows them to stick around for a little bit while, you know, but if, but if smart wants to kind of maximize his income potentials can be tough, the Lakers, I think, you know, I think we'll be willing to sign smart to more years than they're probably comfortable with if the number is low enough. I think the Lakers and Austin Reeves are going to be in a really interesting spot because is AR going, again, the teams that can pay Reeves are the ones that are not very good.

Starting point is 00:17:37 You know, does he, easy for me to say, you want to play meaningful basketball. the flip side is, if Brooklyn offers me $50 million a year, $47 million a year, and that's $17 million more a year than I can make with the Lakers, you know, some people would say, what's the difference between $30 million and $47, like practically? And the answer is, I don't know, but it's $17 million times four, because the number of years, like, you can't tell me it's not at least worth thinking about another $70 million.

Starting point is 00:18:14 But everybody's got to make these kinds of decisions because it matters to the Lakers. Austin at 33 versus Austin at 37. It's a big deal. That could be another player. You know, Ruby at 15 versus Rui at 17 is a big deal. The Lakers have a lot of stuff that they need to do and not a ton of room to be able.

Starting point is 00:18:41 able to do it. Well, Rui, I think is really interesting because he's still extension eligible. Like, even with the Lakers season being over, they can extend Rui now if they want. And I feel like if they are really serious about keeping Rui around, and all indications are they love Rui in the building, I think they recognize Rui has, he has come a long way since they first traded for him. this is a career year for him as a shooter and as a general score. I think he's made some strides defensively. Like he's never going to be a perfect player. But he made himself he's good at is very good at.

Starting point is 00:19:25 And those things have value in this league. But what I was going to say is if they're really serious about keeping Rui, it would be in their best interest to come up with an extension number and sign it before free agency begins, Rui's cap hold is around 27 million, which Rui's not going to be... Yeah, it's around 27 million, which is obviously higher than Rui's going to make anywhere.

Starting point is 00:19:53 But if they can get Rui at, I don't know, anywhere from 17 to 20 million, something like that, and work it out now before free agency opens, then they don't have to deal with Rui's higher cap number. and it actually would help them out with some flexibility, because at that point, they're using bird rights to sign Rui, as opposed to renouncing the rights and having to fit him within their cap number. The reason I bring this up is that's another relationship thing. Hey, Rui, we value you.

Starting point is 00:20:24 We would like to prevent you from even entering free agency. Is our relationship solid enough that you would do something like that for this number? This is hopefully feels like a respectful, you know, worthy offer. But like, again, it gets back to the relationship thing. I, uh, we'll look at this next.

Starting point is 00:20:45 Like, I think, you know, there's, um, there was an interesting line in, in a story from Dan Wakey and, uh, Sam Enoch at the athletic that I thought kind of, I'm curious what, how fans would, will react to it.

Starting point is 00:21:03 Um, because it's both indicative of how the Lakers operate sometimes in ways that are frustrating, but it's also indicative of an understanding and I would say a lack of panic that could be reassuring. And I'll explain next. Locked on Lakers is brought to you by Fandul. The NBay playoffs are in full swing. Every single possession matters. And if you're looking to get even closer to the action,

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Starting point is 00:23:46 one of the things that is you know like how the lakers do this you know is it a sign in trade is it a uh you know is it is it is it free agency is it regular trades you know do they use those draft picks that they can sell the three that they they have for sale you How they do this is yet to be determined and it's there's like I said a narrow path. But one thing, all this attention, four days in the off season, while two of the most fascinating and exciting young teams in a long time are currently, you know, setting themselves up for like potential Western conference finals dynasty type matchups that normally the least, just begs for in Oklahoma City in San Antonio. Like we could be seeing the first of like a true intra-conference rivalry with featuring marquee players.

Starting point is 00:24:48 Like all of it should be great for the league. But it tells you how much oxygen the Lakers get in the offseason that four days in the LeBron James question has been all over and the sort of NBA social media. And it tells you the pressure on the Lakers to get this offseason right, which obviously is something to do with what you do with LeBron James, is really high. You mentioned earlier in the week like incrementalist incremental improvements.

Starting point is 00:25:25 That may be the most realistic thing that's available to the Lakers this off season, but that is not what the storyline is going to be. The storyline, both from externally and then what you hear people saying about what they're saying in El Segundo is this is a big offseason where big things are expected. Well, again, my idea of incremental improvement could be defined as significant. I'm just, I am not expecting them to vault themselves at the level of the thunder and the spurs from one offseason. Like that's just not realistic. And I doubt they even think they can do it all in one summer. I doubt it.

Starting point is 00:26:08 Like, frankly, I would be kind of concerned about them if they really thought they could do that. But there's a difference. But there's something in between we've caught the Spurs who finished second in the conference. We're right there with the Thunder. And, okay, well, you know what? Yes. I'd still pick those two teams. The Lakers have made some real progress in here.

Starting point is 00:26:28 Yes. There's space for that. And that, me at least, in my reading of it, is something bigger than incremental in proof. If the Lakers on a scale of 1 to 10 get to a 5 or 6 in terms of catching the thunder, and I think right now it would be safe to call them at a 0 or a 1, considering they just got swept by the thunder. If you think in the off season that on a scale of 1 to 10, they manage to get to a 5 or a 6, it's pretty damn significant.

Starting point is 00:26:55 Don't get you all the way, but that's significant. I would not consider that incremental. But the point is there's an enormous amount of pressure for the Lakers to do, to look like they have made significant progress in making themselves a championship caliber team. And, you know, the avenues for that are going to be hard to come by that's going to require both kind of bold moves, but also patience. And to that extent, there was a really interesting line in the story that we referenced earlier in this week from Dan Wiki and Sam Amick about kind of what the Lakers are prioritizing, how they're doing things or and so on.

Starting point is 00:27:42 They go through some names. They go through some hope for internal improvement, hope for external improvement, some other stuff and guys that might be around there. And the piece says, still, quote, still there's internal confidence that pathways towards an optimized roster for Donchich will reveal themselves. And I mentioned in the last second, on the one hand, you could be like, that is such magical thinking,

Starting point is 00:28:08 like very just like, you know, it's, it'll come up. What's your plan? Things will reveal themselves. If I try that at work, Andy, I'm not going to get a great performance review from my boss. But the flip side is, you do need a little bit of,

Starting point is 00:28:26 that sort of patience and understanding that, you know what, bleep does happen in the off season. Weird trades happen or some guy becomes available. Somebody gets disgruntled and all these other things. And even if you're not the team that immediately benefits from it, the ripple effect can can shake out. And we saw it a little bit last year. The buyout market, I think, in last year's free agency was the sort of unexpected thing that happened around the league. The Lakers end up adding two very useful players in the aggregate, you know, in Ait and Smart. I don't think it'll be the buyout market this year, but something weird is going to happen. There will be some change in the market.

Starting point is 00:29:09 And so this combination of faith and patience is going to have to mix in with being bold and decisive and having a plan and all these of not letting the enemy. good be the enemy of or great be the enemy of good and all these other things it's this will be the offseason i think that that lakers fans really can you know get to see is this progress that you know it seems maybe like the lakers are you know making under rob polinka is a real because this one is going to be hard well i've also said before that in the past you know rob has done some kicking of the can down the road. And it is frustrated a lot of Laker fans. I think it is at times frustrated players on the team. But as I've said before, and I don't mean this as justification necessarily.

Starting point is 00:30:07 I just think it's an explanation. I think when it was still LeBron and AD, the front office had decided internally with Jeannie that they had maxed this thing out and that there was really nowhere else for it to go. The window had basically shut. They had missed their opportunities. We can rewind all the reasons why at this point. It doesn't matter. I think they landed on the idea that we can't take this LeBron AD pairing any further, but because we are the Lakers and have no idea what the F to do with ourselves without superstars on hand, we're also not going to break this thing up. And we're just going to sort of be prisoners to this situation that we are not going to really invest in, but we're not going to divest either. We're just going to

Starting point is 00:30:55 kind of sit on our hands and hope something happens like, I don't know, Nico Harrison losing his mind and trading Luca to us without even putting him on the market. It's hard not to believe in magical thinking when this sort of stuff happens to you. And the reason I say this is in the past when Rob has talked about big off seasons and these assets we have available and picks and We're going to be aggressive on the trade market. We're going to be aggressive, yada, yada, yada. I don't think he really meant it. This time, I think he does.

Starting point is 00:31:29 And if nothing else, I think he recognizes, I no longer have to keep just Jeannie Bus happy, which clearly I've mastered the art of doing. I've got a new boss now. And this new boss has, frankly, yeah, frankly has much higher standards than my old boss. He has a track record of really great bleep happening under his stewardship. So, you know, I'm going to have to hop to it. And also, I think he recognizes with Luca in his prime,

Starting point is 00:32:03 this is something we believe in. Because quite frankly, if you don't believe in this, I don't even understand why you have this. I mean, other than, like that check, I don't know why you'd have this job. If you're not going to invest in this, really, truly what is worth investing in. And that's, that's, you know, kind of finish it up and come full circle. That's why the LeBron question is important. Because, you know, look, I said this about Austin. If you can do better than Austin, do better than Austin. I don't need Austin Reeves to be on this team.

Starting point is 00:32:32 It's hard to do better than Austin. You have to understand what you are letting go if you let Austin leave the building. LeBron is the same way because while he is a short-term consideration, And if I could, if I can't, if I could add three pieces that I think will be really important for the next three or four years, and that means letting LeBron go because they can't come up with a number that works for LeBron, ego, whatever might be. Okay, then LeBron's got to go. But the idea that you let LeBron go, it's just time to move on. Next year is part of the future.

Starting point is 00:33:13 Next year is part of the Leuca prime. that you're trying to take advantage of. And so that's why this LeBron question is so important. And to your point, Andy, all the can kicking, it culminates in this. Like, you can't kick it any farther. I don't think they want to. I don't think they want to. But I also think, you know, the sort of continuing to talk a big game is putting them

Starting point is 00:33:46 in a challenging spot. And it's one we'll unpack over the course of the off season. Lockdown Lakers on YouTube is we're going to hang out with over 38,000 subscribers to the channel. We'll see everyone next time.

Locked On Lakers - Daily Podcast On The Los Angeles Lakers - Will LeBron Play Hardball With the Lakers? Why His $ Is About Much More than LeBron

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