Locked On Penguins - Daily Podcast On The Pittsburgh Penguins - A little 412 crossover, you say?

Episode Date: March 12, 2021

For Thursday, we have a very special episode of Locked On Penguins as Chad and Eddie of the 412 Sports Talk join Hunter to talk all about the Penguins. They discuss Kris Letang and why so many fans find him to be so polarizing, Mike Matheson, and the chaos that's surrounded him this season, plus some goalie talk as Tristan Jarry continues to be outstanding. They also discuss toughness, as Eddie thinks the Penguins should have a player who comes in and deters a player like Tom Wilson, while Chad and Hunter disagree. All that, plus so much more, on this episode of Locked On Penguins.Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!BetOnline AGThere is only 1 place that has you covered and 1 place we trust. Betonline.ag! Sign up today for a free account at betonline.ag and use that promocode: LOCKEDON for your 50% welcome bonus.Built BarBuilt Bar is a protein bar that tastes like a candy bar. Go to builtbar.com and use promo code “LOCKEDON,” and you’ll get 20% off your next order.Rock AutoAmazing selection. Reliably low prices. All the parts your car will ever need. Visit RockAuto.com and tell them Locked On sent you.IndeedWant your QUALITY short-list FAST? You need Indeed. RIGHT NOW, our listeners get a FREE SEVENTY-FIVE DOLLAR CREDIT to upgrade your job post at Indeed.com/LockedOn Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Your Locked-on Penguins. Your daily podcast on the Pittsburgh Penguins. Part of the Locked-on Podcast Network. Your team every day. Hello, welcome to this Thursday, late afternoon, early evening episode of the Locked-on Penguins podcast. I'm your host, Hunter Hodes. Remember to follow me on Twitter at Hunter Hodes. Follow this show's Twitter at L-O- underscore Penguins.

Today's episode is brought to you by Rock Auto, Amazing Selection, or liby low prices, all the parts of car will ever need. Visit rockaw.com until I'm locked on sent you. Today we have two very, very special guests. I originally was going to do a couple weeks ago. I was like, you know, I just do a game recap then. You know, I was like, oh, I figured I'd bring these two guys on because I was on their show last week. They had to return the favor.

Chad and Eddie of 412 Sports Talk. Please go listen to their podcast because it is truly one of the best podcasts in the city. And, you know, I love seeing. Aren't you kind? People do. Love seeing just, you know, people that aren't in like the mainstream media do these kind of podcasts. Yenzers love their show too and so many others that, you know, I think the two Nick and Nick do their Penn show as well. But Eddie and Chad, how are you guys doing?

Doing all right, man. Finally getting settled down with the move, which is why you were on our show last week covering for me. You can see I've got a whole new, new background than the couch and, white wall that I'm normally in front of. So we're getting there. We're getting there. We got the Man Cave set up, so that's what's important. That's what's most important.

That's great that you got the move done. Chad, how about you? I'm good, man. I'm just hanging in there. I'm in the process of building furniture, and I'm not the world's greatest craftsman. I bought this bookcase, and I was like, oh, yeah, looks like that'd be simple enough.

And I'm struggling. So I'm like watching YouTube videos trying to put both cases together. And I bought a new dresser for my son. So I'm like, I'm like, I'm not a craftsman. Dude. So I might be calling in some outside help. Don't feel too bad because the desk I'm sitting at was half built by my sister-in-law. It was so bad.

I had to tap in the sister-in-law to do it. So I don't know if I should admit that out loud or not. I wish I was a better craftsman, but I'm just not. Yeah, I could not do. any of that at all. I'd honestly just have my girlfriend do it just because she's like really good that kind of stuff to be honest. She has like her own toolkit here.

It's around here somewhere and she just like does whatever with it. I don't know how to use that stuff but I probably need to. Instead of point now where I'm like I might just send this bookcase back and then I was online like assembly free required bookcases and I just have them just carry it in my house.

Yeah. Have you seen that like now you can go like I I say this because all last week I was kicking myself for not spending the extra money to do this. But on Amazon, if you buy furniture, you can get the expert assembly added on. And I guess either someone comes to your house and sets it up or it's already set up or whatever. Yeah, it's like an extra 40 or 50 bucks. But yeah, all last week I kept telling myself, I really should have just spent that extra money.

And you know, speaking of building stuff, the penguins are starting to build something, kind of right now. That is elite level right there, man. There you go. That is what we're talking about. Four out of their last five, three in a row. But of course, they get the worst team in the league for the next two games. It would be Chattinetti, I've been saying this for the whole week now. It would be peak penguins to blow one of these games to the Jack Eichael West Sabres, who is out for the next week. Taylor Hall has two goals on the season. Sam Ryan Hart has been good. Victor Oloxon is obviously good too.

But that team is a tire fire. You have, I tell you this, actually you have members of the Sabres media calling the team a disgrace to the general manager in a press conference. It's just these are games they have to bank. They're in third place right now. But I think they're starting to build something here. If they win these next two games,

that's six out of seven and five in a row, which, you know, I didn't know if they were going to win five in a row at any time of the season. Yeah, I know. Yeah, I think on our show, and that's what's tough. It is, I'll say, I'll say this about, in defense to media people that sometimes we go after, doing this podcast, it is, I start to see when you put an opinion out there, do we do a show usually once a week, sometimes we do more, and I'll come on there, I'll be like, I don't know, man, this Penguins team, if I'm Ron Ex-toll, I'm selling at the trade deadline, and I'm doing this, I'm doing that, and then they go out and win five out of six games, and I, I look like an idiot, so I, so I will say, when you put your opinion out there for the record, it's easy, for like Joe Schmo to be like, oh, I knew they were going to do that. And it's like, okay, sure you did. But when you're like, have an opinion on the record and then like the week later, you're like, God damn, I was wrong. All right. It's the thing that stuck out to me the

most. And I don't always buy into like the raw, raw stuff. But Eddie and I had Steve Mears on our podcast. And the thing that still sticks out to me today, probably more than any other guests that said on our podcast was the day that Ron Hextall and company came to the penguins, they had an optional skate. And Steve Mears says it was the first optional skate that every player on the team attended. He's never seen that. Usually they maybe half a team, one fourth of the team, sometimes maybe close them, but you know, guys get their maintenance days. He was like, I've never seen everybody there.

So that tells me two things. A, these guys, I think they were happy to see the change. You can't tell me they weren't. Not that they don't like Jim Rutherford or are ungrateful of what he did, but sometimes, especially in hockey, you just need a new perspective. We talked about that last week a little bit. And A, or B, this team needed a kick in a butt.

There's only so many times Mike Sullivan can say, he even says to the media sometimes, like, there's only so many times I can say you know, we've got to play our game, we got to do this, got to do that. But now you're going, if you're a player in a locker room and Ron Hextall's coming to town, now you're going, well, my jobs might not

be safe. So I need to get my game together. And since they made that change, they've been a better team. So there's no doubt. And the other thing is Gino, Latang, you know, I think people need to stop, like to start

learning not to doubt these guys. It's the same stuff every time. Gino has a bad 10 games and it's oh, we should trade Gino. Oh, he sucks. Oh, it's over. Well, he wants to go be the center somewhere else. And I'm like, how many times are you going to, I mean, his career's almost over. The time is ticking for this opinion to be correct. You're running out of time. Like, these guys were bound. Let's get into that real quick. What is it with Hvgeny Malkin and Chris LaTang that everybody seems to hate on those two. I've never understood it. They're the,

that's the fine line in Penguins fandom. What is your take on Chris LaTang and of Gennie Malkin? And it's just, it's bizarre to me because both of them are Hall of Fame players. Both of them are just otherworldly talents. It was like a generational part. Yeah. We're not, I mean, if Gino is,

is not overshadowed by Sidney Crosby. We're talking about him being you know, one of the top players. Yeah. I mean, I don't understand what it is with those two that's like such a dividing line.

As for Gino, I'm going to say something. I'm not trying to start anything. Part of it is because he's Russian. I think that's true. I think there's truth to that. There is that lazy? I mean, I catch like my friend. and my cousins and stuff, like when I talk sports with them and, you know, we're in a PS chat or texting about sports. And they're like, oh, yeah, typical lazy malcolm. And I'm like,

typical lazy mouth. Huh? The guy that went a con smite in three cups and an MVP and scoring title is lazy, typical mouth. Like, I don't know. I, I, I want someone that says that he's lazy or any of those little xenophobic narratives to tell me that it, that if it's not to do with that he's Russian or European or whatever, then why are you saying that he's lazy or typical this or typical of that? And I think the thing with Chris LaTang is everyone in the fan base, or a lot of people in the fan base, excuse me, have to over-analyze him.

Oh my God, he did this so bad, and was just a minor mistake or something like that. You don't have to take it to the extreme like a certain someone does. I'm not even going to utter his name. Real quick, are we all blocked now? Yes, we are. Okay, because, yeah, I just checked the other day. make the, you weren't

cool enough to be included in his stalker, uh, painting that he drew. Oh yeah, yeah. I was yeah, and you weren't cool enough to be in that. Well, yeah, but my, my little rant I went on got me. I think I am now, I think I, he, I'm disciple 14. So. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're yeah.

Because he, he clipped a, he clipped a little bit of the, um, one of our podcast episodes. Oh, thanks for listening. Yeah, thanks for listening. And he, you know, he said, I think he said some about me needing my mouth washed out with soap because I called him a dick. Well, you know, if you ever listen to this, get out of the Penguins fan base, buddy. No one likes you. But with a tang, the one thing I'll say is, so again, when like, like, we got to remember

that we talk with Pittsburgh sports fans. So they generally are only watching Penguins hockey. There's not, I would say maybe 80% of Penguins fans that watch Penn's games aren't going and watching Calgary versus Minutes. Minnesota the night. There's some of us that do, right? Yeah. So they don't see, they see LaTang all the time, 82 times a year. So that's what they see. They see the turnover, as they see this and they see that. But they don't see that the other defensemen that play that same way, the play that those minutes, Drew, they do this, they turn

a puck over too. They don't, they don't see that. It's the same thing with like Ben Rothesberger when he throws an interception. They're like, Ben, oh, he throws interceptions more than other quarterbacks and then it's like well I went on stats and he actually doesn't throw more interceptions of quarterbacks but your perception of that is that he does because you watch him and see him more than anybody else. Yeah

and I think people should have like more respect for him like I've been on record on this podcast saying he is the best franchise defenseman in this team's history like obviously Paul Coffey played here but he wasn't their franchise defense here for four years. Paul Coffey wasn't that good

on defense either. No, he was that's coming for. I'm going to play like a Ford a lot of times but I mean Chris Latang is he is this team's best defenseman in their franchise history and he's done so much with the three cups I go back my favorite

memory is staying up way past my bedtime when I was 11 years old and seeing the Latang overtime winner against Washington and that was just right then like you knew what he was just going to be special for the rest of his career because he was taking over for Gonshire and then his 2016

run has the best run I've ever seen of any defenseman. I mean, now, up until Victor Hedman from this year, Headman was on another level. Yeah, I went, when I recently went back and watched the DVD from that cup run, you know, a lot, there was like the Kessel Crosby-Kahn-Smith argument, but if, if Latang doesn't get suspended and doesn't have a rough game, he had like a really rough game four, I think it was against Tampa, he was like minus four or something like that.

But outside of those two factors, there was a strong argument for Chris La Tang to be the consummate. I mean, that series that he played against San Jose is so underrated as far as championship performances go. He was on both sides of the ring. If you don't like Chris La Tang, you don't think he plays good defense. Go watch the Penguins versus Stark's Cup finals

and watch him display some of the best two-way hockey you'll ever see. Yeah. You hit the nail on the head there. And part of the reason I think that he's playing so well since the last couple weeks, we recently got Brian Dumlin back. And he has been, I said it on my podcast earlier this week, Chad and Eddie, this is probably the best I've seen Brian Dumlin play since 2018. The skating is just, that's 2017-2018 level.

His passing, his playmaking, getting the puck out in the defensive zone. his work on the penalty kill looks great if he's going to continue to play like this you know that just makes the team obviously so much better and they get closer to being that cup contender there's still I think a couple moves away overall especially at the forward position if they can you know

obviously they'll get Zucker and McCann back but if they can make a move for another player to play on the McCann line or maybe moved on the top six to move Cappin and down a little bit we're in business except to Ron Hextall to do it But Brian Dumlin, what a last few games he's had for sure.

Speaking of that, the name I keep seeing and the name I keep hearing is Rickel. Yeah. What's your thoughts on him? I love him. I think he would fit our system perfectly. I'd love to see him. And I know you just said to knock Cap'inan down, but I would actually fill Raquel if we were to get someone like that.

I'd have him slot at the third line because I'm not messing with what Kaepinan's got going on right now with chemistry he's he's been let that run out man because that that dude is he's on a different he's on a different level right now than what i think any of us expected him to be yeah his underwines um are ridiculous i think danny from pensball had an article the other day basically saying um they're like shooting 17% on the 5y5 when captain's on the ice probably not going to hold for a whole season but i mean he's on pace for 67 points i think in an 82 game season season. That's Which when we, when the trade happened to get him back, I think we all agree.

A 60 point pace would have been more than acceptable, you know. Yeah, I still, I mean, I'm not, you know, to get 60 points out of him. I, I, that's great. Yeah, I'm still contested. I don't, I think Jim Rutherford did that thing where he was like, like, he's like what the Democrats do. He was like bidding against himself, basically. I don't, I still think he could have caught him without. a first round pick, but that's semantics. The chances of a first round pick turning into a 60-point player isn't exactly that great anyways, so it is what it is.

Going back to Dumlin, though, I was worried. We talked about this with Jesse. Like, pre-before he just came back, going back, he was not good. Even before he got injured, I did not recognize that version of Brian Dumlin. He made, you expect him to be the guy that's not going to make. the glaring turnovers or the defense elapses. And he was not bringing that. Chad, I remember talking to Bob Pompeiani a few weeks ago

about what the penguins should do at the deadline. And you mentioned Dumlin's name, and Bob and I agreed with you. Yeah. That might be a guy to let go at the deadline the way things were looking a few weeks ago. Right. And it always changes.

But now if you can go, if Latang and Dumlin are going to be what they were, or even a shell of that in 2016, then you go, okay, no, that's our core on defense. If anything, if you're looking to move one of those left-handed guys, Pedersen's probably the guy to go, because you're not going to, no one's taking Matheson. That's just going to be a hole that's going to have to be there for a while.

But I'm still worried about Pedersen's play. I'm not seeing very much consistency in his game. him and Marino have been disappointments, although Marino's probably played his best hockey recently. But yeah, if Duma was going to be what he's been and continue to get better, he was jumping up. There was a couple of plays where he was really noticeable

where he jumped up right away. He's so good at making that initial transition pass, and that's such an underrated thing with defensemen that doesn't get enough credit where sometimes that simple, that simple just one up pass to get the transition going. That's all you need. And I remember we were arguing with people about Jack Johnson, They're like, oh, he's not paid to do this or do that.

What do you mean? That's literally a defenseman's job is to get that puck from this zone into this zone. And Dumlin's just so good at that when he's on his game. And you've seen evidence of that. The goal that Crosby scored was evident of Dumlin getting that puck. He right out of the zone into the forwards. They score. So when he's playing that well, this team is going to be hard to beat,

especially if now John Marino is going to come back to life, I'm starting to get optimistic again. Yeah, and Duman just lets Latang be himself. You know, P.O. Joseph couldn't do that. Marcus Pedersen's obviously not going to do that. No, God, you mentioned Marino. He's, yeah, the last few games, it's been a lot better. You know, he was kind of looking washed early on in the season.

Not pretty. Another one, you know, Chad, I think he's proved everyone wrong. Cody Cici. I don't know what I'm watching every single night from this player. It's like they took. him from Toronto, put a different body inside him, and then just said, okay, now you're going to go play. And like, I look on natural staturek and everything. And, you know, we'll get to the Ricard Raquel thing in the next segment, just right after this, Eddie, just to finish that up.

But it's like, I don't know what defenseman I'm watching right now. This is the defense. It's unreal, he's just clearing the puck out. I remember when we, when we signed him, yeah, snapping out, Marissa was asking him. what was wrong. She's like, and that's exactly what, that is exactly,

she's like, I think we were in the car. And I was like, you gotta be kidding. I'm like screaming. She's like, she's looking at me. She's like,

is everything okay? I was like, they just signed Cody Cici. She was like, what does that mean? And, yeah, you know,

I was like, great, here we go with Jack Johnson again. And, you know, obviously, even before the season started, having time to like,

like sit back and like, you know, look at everything. The money that they signed him for was small enough to where, what, it's like one point something a year. 1.1, I think. Yeah, so it's small enough to where it's not a huge deal if he did stink. And he isn't Jack Johnson. As bad of a, you know, as bad of a player as he was, when Toronto did shield him, when they did protect him and give him third pairing minutes,

he wasn't awful. He wasn't worth what his contract was in Toronto, which I believe was four and a half million a year. But he wasn't terrible. And so that 1.1 million a year really makes him a much more palatable player regardless. But he's been playing, like you said, it's a different player completely. I just think this system fits him well. And Cody C.C. is proof enough that stat people or metrics people don't have a personal agenda against anybody because

everybody was against a Cody for the most part from the people that I follow especially you're like yeah what the hell they're doing there and now everybody's like yeah Cody Cac's been competent is the word that I would probably use and it's like well wait a minute I thought metric people like we're going to be no that we not me because I'm not the guy that like formulates I just use it as

a reference tool, but that the community, that's the thing about this data is it, there's no arguing with it. It's not like you look at the numbers and go, oh, wait, so he actually is actually making the penguins better when he's on the ice. That's a lie. I don't want to see it. Like, no, it's like, yeah, Cody, he's not hurting the penguins. And actually, like, I'm on hockey stack cards right now, which tracks their per game, like how well

they're doing per game. And he's second on the team as an average score behind. Letang. So Latang and Cece have been their two best defensemen this year per game. Here's the thing. Like, he can, he's competent enough that he can keep the puck

in the zone. He's confident enough that he can get the fuck out of the zone. And sometimes that's all you need. Jack Johnson couldn't do either. But now, like, Cody Seasy's starting to get the confidence where he's like, he's like jumping up into play and sniping it. I'm just like, what the hell? Where does come from? So

I'm loving it. I don't mind being wrong. That's the thing. I want to be wrong. I've been wrong about a lot of guys. I was wrong about Jake Densel. When Jake Gensel first got called up, I was like, I don't see it. And then I was like, well, I was wrong about that one. Like, that's good. Good for the Penguins.

So I'm hoping the rest of these guys that I'm down on prove me wrong. But yeah, I don't think, I still don't, like, I'm not going to, like, throw a parade. I don't think he's anything more than what he is. And that's a third pair, a competent third pair of defenseman who can kill penalties. And that's all he needs to be. Yeah. And, you know, I don't mind being wrong either. I've been wrong on so many times things related to this team.

I have more than willing to eat the crow. I was willing to eat the crow on Jack Johnson. Didn't happen, but... I wanted to. Yeah, I wanted to as well. But you know what? He stunk, and then it got annoying when everyone, you know, not going to name names, but everyone just had to show for him for no apparent reason.

But yeah, he's been great. We're going to get to the more Ricardo-Rquel stuff right after this. But before we do that, it is time to talk about. Firstly, bet online. It's the fastest. easiest way to bet on all your sports action. Football might be over, but the NBA, college basketball, and the NHL in full swing. Bet Online even covers awards, TV shows, and reality TV has you covered for all the news. Scores and odds is the best way to place your bets and

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That is, locked on 20 to get 20% off your next order at Billper.com and check back to see who won today's matchup and who will become the best tasting protein bar. All right, welcome back to this episode of the Locked-on Penguins podcast. I'm your host, Hunter Hodes. Always great, you know, that people are very passionate about, you know, the Bilt bars just because, you know, I'm also curious to see I know who is going to be crowned the champion. But, you know, Eddie mentioned something in that last segment we didn't get to get to.

That was Ricard Raquel. I did see, I think, Friedman or Chris Johnston from Sportsnet, or Peelelbrunner, someone, one of the insider said a couple teams have told him that the price is very high for Raquel. And rightfully so, I mean, this guy is a, you know, former 30-goal goal score twice. This season, six goals, 19 points in 27 games. I think his shooting percentage is a bit lower this year than it has been in. That be placed for the ducks.

Yeah, the ducks are. That team is unwatchable. Someone needs to go say poor Pittsburgh's own John Gibson there just because he's being wasted out there to the moon. But I think Raquel would be a good addition to the team. I just don't know if they had the capital to go out and get them. They don't have the first. Let me throw you guys an alternative.

And we didn't get any thoughts on this, but 100 are yours as well from last week. Bobby Ryan. I love it. Bobby Ryan, for me, not to interrupt you, but for me, Bobby Ryan is a perfect, low-risk, high reward. He doesn't have to come in here and be the guy.

There's no pressure on him whatsoever. He's having a good season. And he's got the pedigree to play with a Crosby or a Malkin or against or, like, he has that ceiling, that high ceiling that I think if he can get hot, he could do some damage. Yeah, Bobby Ryan's a great name, man. I would love to see that. Bobby Ryan from Cherry Hill, New Jersey, as I said, on the Florin II Sports Talk last week.

Always fun to say that. But, yeah, 13 points, 26 games on a very bad Detroit team. In 24 games last year, you know, he obviously missed due to very personal problems with alcohol stuff. Five goals, eight points, 24 games. His comeback after that, though, was incredible, very emotional. And then just 26 games this year, like I said, six goals and 13 points. You stick them on a bottom six line. The top six is pretty good right now.

You have that Austin-Rleast line as your fourth line, which is one of the five best fourth lines in hockey. Some Islanders fans will tell you that the Cloderbug Sezikis Martin line is better. No, two bad players on that line. Don't make it the top fourth line in hockey. Casey Zizekis is good, though. but then you can roll out Jared McCann

Bobby Ryan and Evan Rodriguez now we're cooking a little bit here I like Evan Rodriguez in that bottom six roll just stop elevating Please stop putting him in the top six I don't get it I don't understand it Sullivan always has that one player that you're just like

I'm not I was with you I was with you with everything else but this one I don't know if I can do it and it's like we get it man you like him he's fast And I'm never going to be one to be like, oh, yeah, yes. Speed's always a good quality to have, but he just, no, he doesn't not have top six talent. Never has, never will.

He's a fourth-line player. That's what he is. Yeah, I agree with that. And, I mean, he's a decent face-off guy, you know, that he does bring some, you know, some skills that we need. But even, you know, when I say that, talking to Sean Tierney a couple months ago, Sean Tierney said that face-off wins in his mind were one of the most overrated stats in all of hockey because they're just a glorified puck battle. So, you know, realistically, if that's the case, then all he has to offer is some straight-line speed. And while speed is good, like Chad said, is that enough to move somebody to the top six?

So for me, you know, we need to get somebody in there. And the thing with Bobby Ryan that I like is if you are going to slot him, him as a third line guy with the penguins and the amount of injuries that we see with them every single freaking year having a guy like bobby ryan that has the ability to bump up and play with sid or gino on occasion is a luxury that you can keep him on the third line but if you need that guy to slot in in your top six for 10 15 games you have the guy to do it and you're not going to you're not missing too much of a beat there Yeah, as long as someone like McCann comes back in a week,

I think he went on IR, but I think he's only going to be there for a week or a week and a half. The sooner he comes back, the better. I just can't watch the fourth line anymore. Every time they come onto the ice, I cringe with my eyes. Mark Jankowski is just don't even know what he does. Anthony Angelo. Another player I wanted to get your guys take on this as well. Sam Lafferty, for some reason, people in this fan base,

some people that cover the team on an everyday basis, Um, they, they think of him as like, almost like a, like back in the Bobby Farnham days or something, when everyone overhyped him. He fooled me. I'll be the first to admit it. I'll be the first to admit I was wrong. I love the way, you know, he always looks like he's putting in maximum effort. He's always, people, the Ingers are loved. Yeah. And like I, I, you know, the inner yinzer in me, it's like, man, this dude skates hard. And then I, uh, I saw, I'll tell you what flipped the script for me was, uh, again, um, uh, why am I drawn to? blank on his name. We just had him on our show. You just talked about him a few minutes ago. Jesse Marshall? No.

It'll come to me. It'll come to me. No, and it's going to suck because I'm going to have to tell him sorry. But he was posting stats and said something to the effect that like every, you know, this dude's got everyone fooled. Danny. Danny, Danny. Yeah, Danny.

Sorry, Danny. I love you, man. I don't know what was going on here. I'm running on fumes. but no, Danny was the one who said that he had a goal, what, like a goal in nine assists or a goal in nine points in his last however many games and, you know, all of it was in his first 10 games. So it was like, oh, okay, maybe he's not what I thought.

And that is the problem with the eye test. He passes the eye test, but everything else he fails. He hasn't even been doing that lately. I watched a shift the other night where he was, and Bobby Fornam is the perfect comparison, because he was flying in the goddamn flash came flying into the zone right okay he goes for this check he completely misses the check it crashes into the boards and the pucks go on the other way and i'm like yeah there's probably injures at home like yeah he's skating and he's got trying to hit people but here's the thing with this with hitting and hockey people the only time that it actually is valuable as if you

remove the guy from the puck. And get it back to your team. And get it back to your team. And other people are like, oh, well, if you finish a check, it wears the other guys down. I don't even buy that because these guys are professional athletes. They're not getting worn down. They don't care. Unless you're just completely crunching their bones.

They don't care. But, yeah, he does things. People confuse effort with results. You can have a good worker, right? You can give maximum effort, but your result. might suck. And that's what we're seeing here with Sam Lafferty. I'm sure he's a great guy.

He's a hometown guy, but he has 17 games played, no goals, one of his minus eight. Yeah. The thing about it for me is you need, and I think this starts at a whole different conversation about the NHL. Unfortunately, I'm still of the opinion that you need one or two guys on your roster that you can slot in to deal with guys like Scott Wilson or Tom Wilson and, you know, just, you know, like the meatheads of the league. Because the, and here's why I say this. They don't have to be on your team full time, but you have to have somebody in your system that can, that you could put out for a game or two because the refs have proven time and time again that

they're not going to deal with it. And so I am all about speed. I'm all about, you know, getting as much skill on the ice as possible. But there is something to be said for guys that are not scared of getting their nose dirty and not scared of getting in the middle of things. And that is why when we had a guy like Patrick Hornquist, who was everything that we just said, he had some skill, he's good in front of the net, he scores goals, he's tough, he's not afraid to get his nose dirty, he's not afraid to stick up to the dudes that need to be stuck up to.

And then we traded him for Mike Matheson. That's like that's the thing that drives me nuts because we had guys like that. And we got rid of them. And so, you know, and then we went to complete other way where you have a guy like Ryan Reeves who's in your lineup every night as a fourth liner who's just not good enough to be in your lineup every night. I remember a few years back when the penguins, right before I think the back-to-back cup run, remember they had Tom Sistido. And the way they used Tom Sistito, though, and you guys can kill me for this if you want. He wasn't an everyday guy.

They dressed him when they knew they needed to dress him. And I'm okay with that, but I'm not okay with having a guy like that taking up eight minutes a game, 82 games a season. Does that make sense? I see where you're coming from I do I don't mind I would want a player like that

you know who's almost like a mini Matthew Cichuk kind of person you know players like him drive a player like Tom Wilson nuts and he would he has a lot of scale obviously there aren't a lot of Matthew Cucs in the league but you know

the teams could get a player like that like a mini version that'd be great and you know I guess I was going to go into the Hornquist talk after that you know, just what a, Chad, I saw your take on Twitter the other day. What a terrible trade it's been probably one of the worst ones. That one really sucks. Yeah.

I mean, they already put Colton Severe on waivers for God's sake. That's just, and he was always like, well, we're trying to save salary, save salary, you added salary in the deal, Jim. So, but yeah, Matheson, honestly, is just a Ford at this point. I think King Clarkie basically started that big rebellion, resistance, whatever the hell you want to call. it on Twitter. But yeah, back to your original point, Eddie, you know, they had that kind of player in Hornquist. And it sucks that they traded them away, not just for that, but just for their power play. A guy, a guy like Hornquist, Hornquist affords you the luxury of not having to have a guy that you have to specifically plug in, you know, five or six nights a week,

or a year when you have to go up against the guy and send a message. And again, this all, this is not ideal for me. I am a skill guy. I'm a speed guy. I think that the way to go is how the penguins won back-to-back cups. The problem is the NHL will not do anything about it. Look at what they did with Ovechkin when he hit the dude for the Bruins in the groin. It was a $5,000 fine. It was the max fine allowed under the CBA. They constantly do this where guys take liberties on other got on other players, and then they just find them. They don't give them any games. I was shocked.

Honestly, I was shocked that Tom Wilson got seven games for the hit that he laid. Here's the thing, though. So Vegas played Washington in the cup final, and they dressed Ryan Reeves, and it didn't stop Tom Wilson from doing anything. Here's the thing about Tom Wilson. Here's what's frustrating as when he plays against you. Tom Wilson isn't effective because he goes around taking cheap shots. the frustrating part is that he actually is not a bad hockey player.

So unless you're going to find a guy that is 6-2, 6-3, 6-4 that can skate and has enough skill to play in the top six that can do the stuff that he does, there's no way other than to making them pay on the power play to stop. You can put three Ryan Reeves on your team and talk, what was Tom Wilson going to be like, oh, well, I guess I'm not going to go do anything today. Like, he doesn't give it damn. But at the same time, if the refs won't police the game, you have to protect players. Because what happens, it's not that Tom Wilson isn't a, it's not that the reason why you do that is because he's a productive player. It's because he's going to injure guys. Look at what he did to Zach Ashton, recent playoffs.

You know, like, and to have guys that just free range do that, either the, the NHL needs to be real about player safety, or we're never going to get out of this loop where you have to have a guy to react to this guy and have a guy to, you know, combat that guy. It's a fundamental flaw with how the NHLs ran. It's not that I, it's not that I want to see the NHL go back to, you know, one designated fighter per team. I don't want that. That slows the game down. It's not fun. I want to see fast, exciting hockey. But you're not going to get that when you're not following through with discipline.

And so the only other option is to make sure you have a deterrent on your own team. Yeah, I mean, I just don't believe that I don't believe that another grown man is going to be deterred by another grown man other than, hey, you take my superstar out, we'll take your superstar out. I mean, even then, I still win with that because I'm saying, okay, that's fine.

And I'll take it. Now, to me, the best way to beat Tom Wilson is what the Penguins did two years in a row. Beat him on the power. When he takes a bad, when he hit somebody, scored the goal the other night they played them, and he took a horrendous penalty. It was a stupid hit. But guess what? They didn't score the power play.

But if they scored the power play and they win that game, now people, when Wilson's locker room are looking at him going, bro, you got to stop this because we keep losing games because you keep taking penalties. To me, that's the best of turn. Yeah, the big thing is, if they play them in the playoffs again, and he does something like that, and he very well made. honestly, it's probably likely. He will.

It's a major and you score like four roles and you blow them out. And his own teammates are going to be looking at him going, man, you got to chill because we're going to lose this period. I think they like the way he plays, Chad. I think he's – Yeah, to a point. But I'm telling you, if you make them pay, being in law – if you make them pay, the team will be like, listen, we can't. They're scoring power play goals. Like, you know, to me, that's better than, oh, let's –

put out Tom Cizito, what are you going to do, have him put his arm around Crosby the whole game and be like, oh, don't touch him, don't touch him. No, you go after Wilson, unfortunately, that's what you do. He loves that, though. He's going to be, he doesn't. That's the thing. He doesn't like the fight. He looks at, any time Ryan Reeves has gone toe to toe with him, he's back down or got his ass

stopped him from playing the way he plays, though. I think it has. I think if you watch. He did you hell out of Vegas. I don't think it was because of Wilson. I don't think it was. He played a much bigger part than Reeves did. Yeah, but at the end of the day, you've got to, like, I always have this, it's funny that I'm on this side of the argument right now,

because I always have this argument with my pops. And he always talks about the human factor and that you can't, at some point in time, you can't just let dudes get beat up and get beat up and get beat up. I mean, yeah, they're getting paid billions of dollars, but I think part of the problem with the penguins in those, the year that we lost to the to the caps was they just were tired. And I think that that was too long. There was two back-to-back cup runs. It was a third, you know, a third deep playoff run.

And I just think it got to the point where the caps knew if we beat them down enough, we're going to beat them. And we were so built for speed and skill that we didn't have any kind of, answer to that. If you look at a team like Tampa, they are fast, they are skilled, they're incredible, but look at the size of their guys. Look at the dudes on their team, too. Look at Victor Headman. Look at, um, yeah, look at Tyler Johnson. One or two dudes. Every team has a couple of small guys, but they're a big team. They're also a skilled team. Okay. The King of Kutcheroff is 5-11. Well, this has been a, I get what he's saying to. It's always, I get what he

say it to. It's always a fun debate with this. You know, my side, you know, especially in the handshake line, you can see them, point to them and laugh at them and be like, you know what? Your stupid ass lost you the playoffs. Yeah, literally that motion. Just like, just point, smile and laugh at him in the handshake line, shake his hand,

be like, hey, thanks for the series win. We'll take that, and you just, you move on. But, you know, it would kind of be in Brian Burke's also M.O. to go after someone like that, just for the truck you lends. Hey, go trade for Matthew because Chuck. You're on.

You won't see me arguing against that. Yeah. And again, the point is, I want to make sure that I'm clear with my point. I don't want to see the penguins go back to a bunch of bruisers. I want to see the NHL do what they're supposed to do about players. Yeah, well, that's what we all want. You know, like that, I would rather see them suspend guys to take cheap shots. I think they did good with the seven-game one.

Yeah. Especially in a short season like this, yeah. Yeah. And, you know, you got the people say, well, you know, it's only Tom Wilson's all you Tom Wilson. Well, you know, that's what happens when you have a reputation. You know, when you get Matt cooked, you know, we are obviously very aware of what happened with that. Still have more to get to for this episode. You know, we're going to touch more on some Mike Matheson talk just because he's just a chaos player every single night. Before we do that,

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So don't have too much time here. Well, obviously, you know, the game is actually getting close to starting at this point. This is funny enough. But, you know, I wanted to touch on the Mathis and stuff and go a little in depth with that. I said it earlier. Do we have to? Only a little bit. He is a, the ultimate chaos player.

I think a couple people in the fan base have said he is the most entertaining player to watch on the team. brilliant at one end at times but you look at his defense and the lapses in his own zone it is just like wow like the lapses that we see the ironic thing with Matheson is everything bad anyone

in his fan base has ever said about Chris Latang is actually true about Mike Matheson yes that is yeah well he doesn't he pinches at the wrong time and he loses his man in the defensive zone that is exactly what this player does

without without the points that the Tang puts up. Yep. Exactly. It's just, that trade continues to look worse and worse. And I didn't even mind

trading Patrick Hornquist too. I wanted them to. Great player. 33 years old. I don't think anyone expecting him to almost be putting up, what, a point per game season this year.

He's playing good hockey. Yeah, that's been a hell of a fit. But, I mean, the contract looked bad. He's 33, but you needed to get a much better value than that. There was McKenzie.

Just get a couple draft picks. That's what you, that's what this franchise needed most go look at their cupboard it's bare bud there ain't nothing in there samuel polio that's it yeah why why draft or why trade patrick hornquist because of his contract for a worst contract i don't get it yeah let me speak for jim rotherford well you got to be fair to the other team god that video man that i that video i think legitimately pissed me off for like a full straight hour just he was like you know you should just try to get a second round pick

guys, when you do these deals, you got to be fair to both teams. It was just like, I was like, I was like, that hell you don't. So, yeah, Jim Rutherford said that basically he, he, uh, he, he, he didn't like doing deals to get over on people. He wanted the deals to be fair for both teams. Eddie, you didn't see it on Twitter? It was tweeted out by, I think, um, Jay, was it Jason, right? Great follow, by the way.

Jay underscore a 155, I think is his name. Amazing. Great follow. I think he tweeted out the two clips and you can go find them on it on this way. I think it's through his media. And it was just, yeah, he was talking about, you know, he's like, you know, you're going to lose some traits. And some of the traits, it doesn't always work out that way or something like that. It was like, dude, like, I don't know what you're talking about with your deals, but.

I want to, I want to scream. Yeah. I've already screamed once. I think I already clipped my mic once on your show. I don't need to do it again. Yeah, you got to, as you have to listen to it. Oh, man. It's bad.

Matheson is, I've always hated, like, oh, a Tang should play forward. I'm like, you don't know what you're talking about. You know, this is probably the first player, other than maybe Brent Burns, where I would look at somebody and go, they're playing the wrong position. Because the dude has, he can skate and he can move the puck

and he can shoot it, but he can't play. I mean, I'm telling you, if you're the mindset, you're a Penn's fan, and you're like, Crystal Tang sucks in his own zone. I mean, imagine that, but less offense and even worse is what Mike Matheson is. He just doesn't, and the thing about the most frustrating thing is you would maybe live with it if, like, his defensive errors, if he was putting up 30, 40, 50 point seasons. But he has four points in 17 games. So his offense, he doesn't even create enough offense to negate the defensive lapses.

It's not nearly enough. And he had that one week stretch where it looked like he was turning the corner a little bit. It looked like he was figuring it out. Yeah, he had that end-to-end play where it's like, man, is this dude? That's always been his ML though. If you go read his things, you'll see in his scouting reports, shows flashes of brilliance. Well, he's in his mid-20s now. He was drafted in 2012.

I mean, if a guy hasn't figured it out by now, he's not going to. Yeah. There was a better defenseman, I think, on their team to trade for it. like McKenzie Weeger or something was rumored to be available. Much better underline numbers. You could have got a banner. You could have got some workers for the stadium. Anything.

Anything whatsoever would have been a better trade. Yeah. Yeah, that was rough. I mean, and again, it's just, for me, it was the contracts. Like, I don't, yeah, I don't care. More salary. Yeah, like, I don't care. Honestly, I, like, if you just dump Hornquist because of the salary, I get it.

Like, I don't like it, but I get it. round pick anything, yeah. But to pull in more salary, I, you know, now, I mean, like, that brings me to a question I wanted to ask earlier.

You know, with the expansion draft, I mean, obviously, like, we've got to start looking at who they protect. It's the out of taking my No, but do you do a situation? Do you, do you have a situation where, where maybe you sweeten the pot for them to try

to get them to take it? Oh, I mean, if you're smart, you do yeah i mean that's a that's the only way i see getting rid of that contract he mathes it is under contract longer than any other player on the team yeah it's it's unreal that's the fact that he actually is under contract longer than like even cindy crosby is just insane that's just actually it's kind of hilarious yeah and and the main negative you know about the team right now you know the the the goaltending i mean what a what a turnaround that has been I mean, I've been talking about this, too,

that the 16-game heater that Jari went on last year, that got him to the All-Star game. It was 9-28-9-30. Last 11 games, I think Jed tweeted it out, 8 and 3, 9-32 save percentage. It's like, where was, if they had that at the beginning of the season, chat, they're probably in first place right now. But that's the thing with goalies.

Like, and we were talking about goalies last week. To me, goalies are the hardest. when we do all these analyzations of players and teams to me, goalies are the hardest, it's the hardest position in sports to me to analyze. It's

so much mental, it's so much based on technique. And that's what my worry was coming into the season. It's not that I didn't think that Tristan Jari wasn't talented. It's not that I didn't think that he was going to be good or that good ever again. It's that I've been

watching the sport for 30 years. and I know I know goalies. It's a role, unless you have Dominic Haschick and a few other guys, it's like this. It's up and down and up and down. So then I was like, Tristan Jari, okay, so you got a young goalie who had an all-star, but then he started to follow off and then a journeyman backup. That's your goalie plan for the season. And I was like, man, I'd really like to have another veteran in there just so that when Jari's doing this,

You had someone to bring it up, but then when Jari's doing that, you ride them. But this is proof again that good goaltending, this is what good goaltending does. It hides so many errors. They got outplayed so much in the third period the other night. And Tristan Jari stood on his head and was like, nope, we won the game. Yeah, you know, Chad and Eddie, someone was tweeting out. It looked like the 2008 Detroit Red Wings out there. Yeah.

With how bad how much the Rangers were. But, you know, Casey de Smith, for as much people want to harp on him, he's actually been not bad this year. No, you know what I mean. I just didn't think that that tandem was like, I didn't like look at that tandem and go, oh, yeah, they're great there. Like, you know. I agree with that too, you know, but I just, I don't think there were many. I know Thomas Grice was out there, but he went to Detroit, Lundquist. That would have been hilarious.

But there really weren't a lot of like, like tier two starters or one B kind of guys. because like Jacob Markstrom got paid. Brayton Holti got his cash. So only others were just like bona fide starters that hit the market. There wasn't like a lot of those. Could have kept Matt Murray. You know, bless his poor soul playing behind that Ottawa defense because they are just. Yeah, it is, it is bad.

But, you know, just to finish up here, you know, of course the Zoom call is getting close to running out. 10 minutes here. But, you know, we still have playing time. Do you, both of you, do you guys see this team making the playoffs? because I said second earlier on before this. Then I tweeted out last week, well, they're going to miss playoffs. They keep playing like this.

Four out of the last five, they keep playing amazing hockey. So I'm just going to ask you guys this. Do you think they make the playoffs or do you think they miss? And if you do think they're going to make it, what team do you have missing out? Yeah, I think they make it. They've got a game in hand on the Islanders. They've played the same amount of games as the Caps.

But the thing with the Islanders and the Caps, if my memory serves me, right, is they're starting to get into the difficult stretch of their of their schedule, where hopefully the penguins are getting into the easier stretch of their schedule. So I actually think I've got them, you know, finishing second place in the division. And I actually think they're going to be behind Boston. I think it's going to go Boston, penguins, caps and islanders. I think the Flyers and the Rangers are the odd ones out. I got Philly out too. I'm looking at Philly schedule right now in April. They have a back-to-back against the islanders, then back to back against the Bruins.

Then they have alternate between the Islanders, Bruins, and Capitals. And Carter Hart all of a sudden is starting to falter. I actually thought the Flyers were like, I think they're a year. I think they're a year away because they got a bunch of really, their prospect pool's crazy. So they're probably going to be much better next year. So I still have contested that Boston is the team to beat. I know right now they don't look like it, but they're always so good.

They're always so well coached. And Marshaan, Passan, Beck, and Bergeron is as good as a top three. They've got three games in hand on the Islanders and they're a little bit. So I think that, you know. Pittsburgh, I think, will finish third. That could change with two things. One, if Jason Zucker comes back and is actually more of what we saw last year, I think that is going to move the needle one way or the other.

And then obviously Tristan Jari is going to be the other X factor. If Tristan Jari gives them even remotely like 915 plus goaltending the rest of their way, they probably could finish as high as second because I think Crosby, Latang, Malkin and Gensel are all starting to hit their strides right now. But goaltending can sink a team more than anything. So a lot is riding on Jari. and hey, that's what they went with. That was what they wanted.

They wanted, you know, that's what they decided to do. And then the special teams is going to be a big factor too. Some nights, I know we talk about it on Twitter, man, some nights this power play, you go, well, wait a minute, what the hell? Where'd that come from? They're doing backdoor passes and cross creek passes. And then there's other nights where it's like, shoot, shoot the fuck. And I hate being that guy.

I don't like that guy, but sometimes it's kind of warranted. Speaking of the Playoff picture At what point in time Do the Islanders turn back into a pumpkin? They're not, dude, they're the best coached hockey team I've ever seen.

I'm not even trying to be hyperbolic. The thing with them is, you know, people always want to ask, well, how are they in first place this year? They're 6 and 0 against the Sabres. I mean, you take that away. I think if you actually take all those, I saw Adam Gretz put this on Twitter.

If you take their six wins away and then like the Washington and Philadelphia, I think they're combined 14 and 1 and 1 against them, the standings would change, the Islanders would be the first team out. That is just how, like, they're kind of been more mediocre against the other teams.

They're just beating up on the Sabres. And that's why they're in first. But I do agree, Barry Trots. Say what you want about his style. Boy, is he something, man. Say what you want about his style. It's a garbage product to watch.

When you look at that roster, Barzel is the only guy that you go, okay, yeah, that's a star. And then you've got some guys like, Everly, they're like, yeah, they're, They're good. They're like B-level players, but that's what they have is like a team with one star and then a bunch of B, C, and D-level players.

But Buffalo and New Jersey is an interesting point because what should good teams do? Good teams should beat the teams that they're supposed to be. So even though the penguin's schedule is getting lighter, it's still going to be interesting because Chris LaTang was talking about this yesterday when the Penguins sent me the media files. He said, sometimes it's harder to get up for those games because in your mind, you're going, this team is not good. Now they don't have Eichol for God's sake. So it's like, we should win this game. But then all of a sudden, a flute goal goes in and this happens.

And then now you're going, oh, my God. So they have to prove, it's easy to say they should win these games. Can they do it? Can they consistently beat these teams? If they do, they might honestly push for the division title. Yeah, that's what I was thinking, honestly. Like, if they go like 7 and 1 against Buffalo, 7 and 1 against New Jersey, you're pushing for a division title with you already beaten a lot of those teams at least half the time.

Like the Islanders 4, Washington 4, the Rangers 5, you still have three left against 30. And that's all you needed was to kind of wash with those teams. Yeah, that's exactly what they've done. You know, you knew they were going to play those teams tough. it's their biggest rivals. It's going to be interesting. It's good for the sport that this is going to be a five-team race with one team getting out. That's going to be fun to watch down the stretch, especially with a lot of these teams that I just can't, I can't stand them.

Yeah. It's been fun to watch every night, though. I am kind of, I'm rooting for to go back to normal kind of for next season because I'm done watching the Islanders play. The Penguins six times in the season, and even the Capitals and the Rangers are just like, okay, I'll play. I'll play you guys next year. I'm done at this point. Yeah. Right.

Yeah, it's enough. Yeah, exactly. But thank you both so much for coming on this episode. Sure. Where can everyone find you on social media? Good, Eddie. Eddie underscore P underscore 412. Yeah, that's pretty much all I've got.

412 sports talk on YouTube, Facebook, and Spotify, and then Matt Chad, 412 is all my social media. You'll find me on there. And then we'll definitely look forward to doing some more work with you. Like we said, we have a website coming now for the podcast. We're going to be putting out even more content outside of just a weekly podcast. Yes, please go check out their stuff, guys. It is probably, it is not probably.

It is one of the best sports talk podcasts. Appreciate that, man. Especially coming from you. You've been doing this a while. And I mean, you're one of my go-tos for Penguin stuff, man. So I appreciate that, especially coming from someone like you. I really appreciate that. I always love to listen to all your episodes.

Every guest that you guys bring on is just awesome. God's sakes you guys had the mayor, I think, on for one of your episode. I try to get him back. Yeah, yeah, yeah, especially with things opening up now. Yeah, that was incredible. But thank you all so much for listening to this episode. And we'll be back on Friday for another episode.