Locked On Penguins - Daily Podcast On The Pittsburgh Penguins - Analyzing the first half of the Penguins season with Jesse Marshall!

Episode Date: February 3, 2022

There are five days left on the Penguins break but first, Jesse Marshall of The Athletic joins the show to touch on everything about the team from the first half. They first talk about the special teams, and how the power play is looking especially deadly since the start of the New Year. They also discuss the penalty kill and while that unit has been strong, it has faltered a bit as of late. After that, the two get into the recent slump and if that could carry over past the All-Star break, plus do a deep dive into John Marino's season. Is it all bad with him? What has he been excelling at? The two then get into Jake Guentzel's outstanding season, plus go into Bryan Rust and how this is getting pretty difficult for the Penguins. All that, plus much more on this episode of Locked On Penguins.Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!Built BarBuilt Bar is a protein bar that tastes like a candy bar. Go to builtbar.com and use promo code “LOCKED15,” and you’ll get 15% off your next order. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Well, it's a little bit of a different setup today. So the Restream is currently being occupied and due to time and stuff, we wanted to just get this out of the way. But, you know, Jesse Marshall of the Athletic has joined the Lockdown Penguins podcast. I'm, of course, your host, Hunter Hodes. You can follow me on Twitter at Hunter Hodes. You can also follow the shows Twitter at L.O. underscore Penguins. Jesse, first off, man, how are you doing today?

Hanging in there, I'm tired. other than that, you know, like in a perpetual state of being tired as a dad. But, like, yeah, everybody's good hanging in there. Otherwise, just trying to survive this disgusting winter weather. Yeah, I see you all if it looks like you're getting some snow up there again, or maybe that's Ohio or something. It's the whole belt. Yeah, it's getting projected today for three quarters of an inch of ice.

That's what we call hashtag not good as they say in social media. That's correct. down here at 60 degrees today in Richmond. Beautiful. You go to the beach for this, but getting a lot of snow this winter as well, which is kind of weird because you don't see a lot of that when you're an hour and a half from the beach. So obviously, you know, we are here to talk penguins.

Jesse, the first half of the season just wrapped up. Penguins are currently just a couple points at a second place. They're right behind the Carolina Hurricanes for first. On a four-game losing streak, though, I just want to get your thoughts on that. You know, when you look at these four games as a whole, whole. Are you concerned about anything really with the team or is it just, you know, kind of like a bad slump? Because that's where I think I'm at. It's hard, I think, to wake up for some games

against, you know, maybe Seattle or Detroit when you're 16 points up on them for the ninth place team of the conference. Just, you know, what are your overall thoughts on the first half and just, you know, the slump here as well? Yeah, I'd accept that that Hunter against Seattle, right? Or some of them, you know, those West Coast teams, you know, see a ton. I don't like that against Washington. I think that like no matter what the situation is, you know, you have to be up for a divisional opponent that is, you know, a handful points off of you in the standings and not playing particularly well, right? Let's be honest. I mean, I was talking to a couple of caps faithful on Twitter that we're expecting to lose that game six to one. Just joking with me before

and like, that's how poorly the caps are playing. I think the Penguins made the capitals for great portions of that game look way better than they are, way better than they are. So it's a consistency thing for me. You know, it's a double-edged sword because, on one hand, the team is good enough that they could play for 25 minutes and win, right? They could be that good in that window of 25 minutes that they're unbeatable almost. Then no matter what they do for the rest of the night. But sometimes, again, that doesn't always work. Playing 25 minutes, sometimes you don't get away with it, right?

And I think that's the consistency aspect to it is what is sort of baffling. to me because I think they're a good. I think they're a good team, proven they're a good team. They're, you know, peripherally, you know, metrically speaking, you know, on the outside of the upper tier of cup contenders. So I think of like, you look at that upper echelon of cup contenders, the penguins are at the bottom of it. But, you know, that's all well and good. And it's a veteran team that knows the difference between, you know, a game on Valentine's Day and a game on, you know, tax season. You know, there's a discernible difference there. But it's a habitual. thing for me. I don't like some of the habits to get formed. I know it's probably driving

like Sullivan crazy, but I think it's just as easy as closing things out and playing a full 60. They let their foot off the gas. They get away from the system. This system is super effective and it works great when you have the tempo, when you have the forecheck, when you're upbyce, you're harassing their team. The moment you take that element out of it, it's, yeah, it's like mashed potatoes. It's plain mashed potatoes. It doesn't work. It's just, it's bland, And I think that's the element that's been missing is that up-tempo keep the foot on the gas for a full 60. And it's hard to get buy-in for that. You know, it's an exhausting system to play.

I know it's probably demanding on the players. But I think that, you know, you've got to find a way to stay engaged for the full gamut of the game. Yeah. I would agree with that. I mean, you know, the Washington game, you know, they made their worst-looking power play actually look competent, which was really weird because I saw a stack coming into this week. I think this was from Japer's rank of SB Nation. Excuse me.

Their power play, I think, was five for their last 58 going this week. And they made that power play look like it was one of the top five best in the league. And it's like, it's weird because the PK has been playing so well. I don't know what is going on with my coughing today. But it was just, I didn't really understand that. You know, you look at their lineup as well in that game. Their bottom three lines were not good. I mean, Nicholas Baxteram is still a great player, I think.

Lars Eller is not bad. But outside of that, they didn't really have any offensive threats there. And, you know, they had that really horrendous turnover on the power play with Crystal Tang, which I think has been creeping up in his game a little bit, even though he's had a fantastic season. The rest of that, though, I thought they took it to Washington. It was just unfortunate, Jesse, that they got goalied. Yeah. Eli Samsonoff, who's been really bad, I think, well, I shouldn't say really bad.

But he's been up and down for most of the season. You know, he was way... Mostly below the line. And, you know, that's the reason probably why they're looking at Mark Andre Fleury, but he's going to probably do the heel turn and say, I'm not going to play for you. We'll see what happens with that. I mean, that's certainly to be interesting.

The capitals themselves, I mean, so the goaltending is an issue, right? It's on a slide. But they've also scored above expectation all year long. That can't last forever. You know, there's only so much water in that well. And I get, like, having Ovechkin is partially responsible for that because he's, you know, the best goal score of all time and has just been on fire this year. And it's probably personally responsible for at least half the goals above expectation they've scored.

But again, like, I just don't rely on that all year. So it's, it's, you know, there's concern there to note that like, A, your goal attending is on a slide. And then B, how long can you sustain this on sustain seemingly unsustainable shooting percentage? Or do I think we're actually kind of seeing the answer to that question right now. Yeah, I don't know. I still think that, you know, to go back to your PK point, I mean, it's, the penalty kill is driven by the same thing, the 5-on-5 system is driven by, right? No difference at all. You've got to be aggressive. You got to be attacking the puck. And I think the moment you take that element out,

you just immediately become susceptible to having lanes opened up on you. Yeah. And, you know, I was noticing with their PK, you know, I thought they were being a lot more passive against the Capitol's power play, which, I mean, I understand Obetkin is probably the greatest goal, of all time and he's having a heart trophy caliber season but i was noticing boyle when he's usually up there causing all the havoc i think between whoever's up there he was playing a lot further back than normal which i was like okay that doesn't look like mike volucci's system and it was almost like a five on three and a half there because i'm like you're giving yeah because i think john carlson was coming down way further than when he normally is at the point i'm like okay this is not a five on

three right now. Why is he this close, you know, to like a medium or close to a high dangerous 20 chance? I didn't really know why the penguins were playing it like that, which was interesting. Yeah, it's just a miss. I mean, that's it. Like, you know, the penguins are in a diamond structure on the penalty kill. And other than the person that's the base of that diamond, the person in front of the net, you know, responsible for taking care of that crease area, those other three pieces of that diamond are designed to jut out and attack, right? So left, right, top, you know, wherever the puck is, go get it. There's no internal timer here. Like there's no, like a lot of teams will say like once possession is established, change your tempo, do this, do that. It's like go all the time,

right? Go all the time. And that element's not there. You become susceptible. You know, the idea is to take the time and space away from the other team to force them to make quick decisions that they're not comfortable with. You know, it's akin to, you know, getting pressure on a quarterback before the receiver's done with their route and hasn't even turned around yet, you know, for the ball. It's, it's, it's, you're doing the same thing. And if you don't have that, you know, that, that, that, if it's not there that night and the tempo's not there and the legs aren't there, you get picked apart, right? Now you're just, you know, you're not forechecking. You're not putting that pressure on. And if the top of that diamond, like in your, like in your, in your point, Boyle would be the man all the way at the tip. If he's not up there causing that havoc and disrupting, uh, that flow, You know, you're just, you're standing and taking, it's, it's no different than having a cone on the ice with a stick, you know, like the cardboard orpick. Yeah. From back in the day. You're just, you're taking up space, you know, and players are so good at dishpassing, you know, the lanes are opening and closing behind you that you can't even see. You got players in motion on both sides of the ice. You know, if you're not just pressing and getting your stick up there and being a nuisance, you're just, you know, you're allowing people to sit back and pick you apart. And that happens at even strength too.

So it's both. It's not just the penalty. It happens at even strength just as much. And I think, you know, I always say that, you know, the penguin system, when it's good, it's, it's, it's about attrition. And you force, by the third period of a uptempo style game against the penguins, you're seeing ghosts. You're in the defense zone and like, you're like, like, you could feel the pressure even if it's not there, right? It wears on you over the course of a night. But if you're, if you don't have it, you're just giving the other team an opportunity to,

pick their head up and either skate it out with a lane or make a pass for his own entry. And, you know, those are the worst kind of things to let up. You know, you're inviting pressure, basically. Yeah, and I think that the PK, it's definitely been a little, it used to be number one. Now it's number two last I checked. You know, they've been giving up a little more than they usually have lately. And I think it's due to them not being as aggressive and taking away some of those passing lanes. And also, I think it's due to John Marino.

I'll get to him in a little bit with him and with his net front play. Speaking of the other special teams unit though, Jesse, I mean, wow, complete 180 from where they started for the season. I know Evgeny Malcolm was not there. Sydney Crosby had to miss a good chunk just due to COVID. A couple of other stuff. But, you know, ever since Gino has come back, you know, since January 1st, they were tied for the league league with 16 power play goals with the Colorado Avalanche. And they've been just a machine lately. They're going to be hard to beat, I think, in playoffs.

but I think with that one, I'll get your thoughts on this as well. I really noticed that their zone entry seemed to be so much cleaner. I know the drop pass, what they normally do. You know, Sid's been able to carry it into the zone a lot easier. And then they're able to set it up. I know Chris Lattang has had, you know, the turnovers at times, but, you know, they still haven't given up a lot of short-handed goals this year. But, you know, having Malkingback on that right half wall,

it works so well because, you know, now they have, now everyone, the opposition has to account for him with his genome bombs and it's not just sit down low and let's hang up high or, you know, wherever they want. And you have to deal with Gensel in the slot because he can pick you apart from wherever. You know, this unit, I think, is becoming a problem for the league with how they're getting to the high danger areas and finishing. What have you been seeing with the power play? Just what is it, what has basically been making it just go full steam ahead lately?

Yeah, so first of all, I mean, you nailed it with Malkin and just needing to respect that shot. I mean, the bomb is real and he unleashes it with a great deal of regularity. I think that, you know, he's an underrated puck distributor too. Forget the zone entry stuff. I think just his ability to effectively distribute the puck to teammates, you know, to create chances all over the place. that's a critical part to his game. Jake Gensel, among some of the elite players in this league, with regards to his ability to create high danger passes at 5-on-4 play,

the data from Corey, a shutdown line data, all three zones data, is really friendly to him, not only in his setups, but just the raw number of shots that he takes on the power play. He's up there with, you know, I mean, there's just some major heavy hitters that are surrounding him, you know, Kapritsovs and Kuznetsov's and, you know, a lot of traditional, really good. I think power play guys, but I think he also is really the straw that stirs the drink. And I think that, you know, the sort of umbrella style that they play on her is about lanes. And I think it's about puck distribution and being able to go side to side for a one

timer, you know, being able to utilize whoever it is you have in the, in the middle of the ice and the slot. You know, we don't take a lot of shots from the point, which actually I think is great and it minimizes some of that short-handed opportunity against. I think that, you know, Chris LaTang in particular has been pretty good about taking some off of his shot this year. I mentioned a couple of times, I think on Twitter that he's, you know, if you notice, I think he's hitting the net with a lot more regularity of the season and he's giving you a little quarter or one-eighth sloppers, really, where he's not. winding up all the way and more looking for a deflection or a pass off the pad. I just think it's

more controlled. At the end of the day, this thing only goes bad. It really only goes bad when everybody stays stagnant. When you get all five people staying in one spot with no movement, they could get bullied. They just get bullied around and shoved up the ice essentially, right? And that's what happens. So I think for me, you know, as long as they have their feet moving and there's the parts are, you know, they're switching occurring and, you know, the puck cycling, they're in good shape. Yeah. And I just think, you know, throughout the last month, I mean, they've been doing all of that. And, you know, they've been also finishing their chances. I think Brian Rust has a lot to do with that. You know, I know, I was of the opinion, I think for a little bit that Rodriguez could have taken his place.

Well, you know, it's funny how Rodriguez goes cold. And then Russ just gets really hot. And now, you know, we're kind of discussing what the heck we're going to do with this player. his contract's up after this year. And it's a big discussion. I'm going to get your thoughts on that later on this episode. We still a lot more to get to, including, again, the play of John Marino. Of course, some more Jake Ansel talk because what he's doing, I think, is ridiculous as well. And I think we'll go into a couple of fun top as well.

Just, you know, it's never too early, I think, to talk about, no potential playoff opponents. But, you know, we'll get to that a little later on because the East is basically, I think, locked up at this. Yeah. Not a lot of parody. especially with the Islanders losing last night. I think they're cooked at this point. Yeah. Yeah. But before we do that, though,

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offers available for the 2022 season. That has been online where the game starts. All right, welcome back to this episode of the Locked-on Penguins podcast. I'm your host, Hunter Hodes. Remember to follow me on Twitter at Hunter Hodes. You can also follow the shows Twitter, L.O. underscore Penguins. So, Jesse, you know, I think the big elephant in the room for a lot of people in the Penguins fan base,

whether, you know, I see it on social media and I listen to, you know, some radio or podcasts or anything like that. And, yes, I do listen to other podcasts than my own. And if I listen to my own podcast, that just makes me look like a weirdo. But, you know, John Marino, Jesse. I think this is strictly my opinion. I think this is the worst hockey. I think I've seen him play.

He's not anywhere close to where he was during his rookie season. Last year, I think he was okay. You know, he played with Pedersen. The underlying numbers were pretty good, especially defensively. I think that was basically their shot suppression period where they could put out there against any opposition, and they would get the job done. And this year it's been anything but that.

Pedersen has been really good, but it's been Marino that's really struggling. His offense is not there. His play in front of the net. A lot of people roasted Pedersen for that. Never really understood where that came from because he was always pretty decent in front of his net. But it's Marino, I think, where their criticism is warranted. I've seen people call him soft. And I hate throwing that turnaround just because of, you know, old time hockey and stuff like that.

But I do think that kind of applies to him at times because he is a bit weak in those. areas. And I just think also defensively in other spots, you know, he just, he makes the wrong read a lot more now. You know, what have you been noticing? And, you know, how can Marino fix this? Because Jesse, five more years at 4.4 million per. I mean, if he keeps this up, that's, that's going to look like a bad contract. Yeah, I'm going to defend him a little bit, though. Um, some stuff, like, and I'm having a hard time myself, I think reconciling some of the data points with the eye test because I think he's sort of inherited a little bit of that glaring mistake syndrome where a lot of the stuff that like when he gets caught out of position in front of the

net or he's not tying somebody up or you see him kind of like floating around out there we remember that right we talk about it it's glaring but he's doing so many other good things behind the scenes that it almost like I don't know that their mistakes are as frequent as we might think they are based on what we see. So like a couple points I was looking up this week and just overall, right? So like numbers wise, I think from shot expected goals, scoring chance or subjective, everything's very normal for him. It's like almost like he's the baseline, you know, relative to the rest of the team, he's not plus or minus in any one extreme area. It's kind of just like he's almost like your baseline average. You know, everybody's, everybody's playing off of

him. I think micro data wise is where he shines in puck movement specifically. It's really difficult for players to gain the blue line against him forwards. He's been unbelievable here maintaining his business on the blue line with gap control and preventing zone entries is really what I'm saying. It's not a player. He's forcing a lot of dumps. Okay. Now let's take that to the next level because forcing a lot of dumps that you generally prefer that, but he's also retrieving those dumps successfully and turning them into zone exits better than anyone in the team. So not only is he forcing the other team to dump the puck in on him, he's then retrieving the dump, turning around and making a play to a forward at a high rate. We don't talk about this stuff

because we don't see it. We see it, but like it's not as standoutish as like completely floating around in front of the crease and not marking anyone. Like if you see two things in a game, you're more than likely going to talk, all of us are more than likely to talk about that one, the total width there. So I think the data suggests he's got to be better in front of his own net. Agree with 100% agree with that. But I think from a breakout perspective, generating offense off his stick, getting the puck out to people who can generate the offense and just sort of like being a custodian of the blind. I think both the data and the eye test say, probably setting the, arguably setting the bar there on a team, like outpacing Latang

in a lot of these metrics in terms of his own exit. So there's value there, right? With the reconcile it with the areas he's not been great in. I think it all comes down and I asked people on Twitter. I said, like, how many, what's your John Marino grade? You know, where are you at on him, you know, performance wise? And a lot of people are like, yo, honestly, see, like, that's about where I'm at. Like, I gave him that. I think, like, I think, like, a or a D. I might have been being a little too hard on them. I just like, I think I've just noticed. Well, I don't know that you are though, because like your criticisms are valid, right? So I don't think you're, you're not barking up a tree out of nowhere. Like, these are all things that are actually taking place and happening, right? We know that for sure. I think overall, um, there are more things that he does peripherally that we don't, we collectively don't notice, um, than things that, you know, he kind of, you know, he kind of, than the opposite is what I'm getting at.

So I think that there's a marino effect at play here in both directions that kind of equal his performance out on both sides of the scale. There's a lot of good. There's some not so good. And I think at the end of the day, you know, all things are kind of equal. Yeah. And the thing is, you know, I know the talent is there. We saw it his rookie season.

He was probably going to be close to a Calder Trophy finalist. had he not broken his cheekbone last year got close to back to that level, was playing pretty well, and then this year, you know, just, I think a C grade for him is fine. Like I said, that's probably what I voted for. I think I've also probably just noticed maybe the negative more than some of the positive

just because, you know, maybe I'm not noticing, you know, some of those positive, you know, zone exits and always forcing the opposition to dump it in as much as I would like. So I'm probably going to train myself to keep an eye on that more, you know, not now, of course, that you mentioned that with how he's been really good. But like if you look at who he's playing with, I think that the coaching staff, you know, pretty much for the most part, Hunter's done a good job of balancing his strengths with his weaknesses.

In terms of who he's playing with, right, I really do think that there's been, that's been a good balance that they've had to strike. Yeah. So I think overall, you know, as long as I think you can keep him, you know, alongside somebody who's maybe their strength isn't moving the puck as much, right? maybe they're not as great at that and they need some help there. Maybe they're a little bit better defensively. You know, that I think that works.

I think, you know, he supports offense well, maybe not generating it as much as we'd like. I think I looked it up on Jayfresh the other day, and I don't know how much changed since I saw it, but he was well within the bottom third of the league among defensemen in terms of his even strength offense, but it was in the top third of the league defensively. So I think, you know, it doesn't make any sense to me because, like, I think the data suggests, you know, he would be good offensively based on how many zone entries.

He, you know, how many times he's getting the puck out of his own end. You know, maybe his individual performance has been that bad. I don't know. I'm still talking now and cutting you off. That's how much there is to this. Like, I feel like it's an onion. So every time you find something that you like, oh, wow, he's really good at this. When you're peeling the rest of the layers, you're like, oh, this sucks, you know?

So it's like, I don't know how you reconcile it at the end of the day. He's a weird one, I think, to evaluate. You know, some people will think maybe he's like a mini Brian Dumlin in a way, because Ryan Dumlin doesn't have a lot of offense as well. I mean, he's known for his defensive ability. He'll contribute a goal every now and then. And usually it's in a pretty big game in a pretty big spot knowing him. But, you know, with Marino, the one thing I wanted to see from him, you know, Jesse,

is to get his offensive game at the next level. And now we're in year three. And, you know, I'm not really seeing that as much from him at the blue line. I feel like when he runs the second. power play as well, right? Yeah, that's been the big thing is that he's been a net, a net negative to me on the power play. Just not enough. Yeah. I just don't know why they're not putting Mike Matheson, who was probably having the best season of his life with the penguins on that unit just because, I mean, A, he's a one-man breakout. I mean, the zone exits and

the zone entries I see on an every-night basis for him are just ridiculous at this point. I mean, he knifed through three guys and it's nothing. And too, you know, Marino, he just doesn't have that big of a shot, I don't think, from the point. And it's just, I think, it's a step slow with making decisions, I think, as well. So again, man, I'm definitely going to keep my eye on that with John down the stretch. Hopefully this break for him will, you know, do him some wonders. Another player, though, Jesse, that's, you know, I guess in the doghouse a little bit before I get to Jay Kensal stuff.

We got to talk about Kisbury Capon in here. You know, I think I've run out of things to say about him on this podcast in the last month or two. I kind of was maybe, I was pretty harsh on him after the game on the other night, just because I think he was almost solely responsible for that gaff in overtime, where the penguins did not see the puck again, has no pressure at the point with a puck about a buck 30 left, fires it for no reason. Washington has the puck for the last 45 seconds, and then Dermitri Orlov goes around Zid to score the game winner. I think to me, man, that reeks of someone that does not have any confidence right now and he has not had any confidence in his game all year.

What do you do at this point with him? I mean, do you keep him in? Do you, God forbid, trade him at the deadline? I mean, I just don't know what's going on because, you know, I know he was helped out by a really high shooting percentage last year. It was actually a career high for him, I believe. This year it's come down even though his underlines are not terrible. but every time I see him on the ice coming into the zone just pulls up, stops and dumps the puck in, and I don't know what's going on. Yeah, I have to go back to like, you know,

the criticism of him coming out of Toronto, which is he couldn't think the game at a high level and struggled to keep up with some of the more talented players in the top end of the Toronto lineup. And I guess now, like, has that changed? No. No, probably not, right? Like, it's the same.

It's kind of the same. So that's, that's, that's, that's it is that, I think there's a lack of creativity. I think that, you know, they can't put him with Crosby. They just can't, you know, um, you know, he, he, uh, I don't think that would mesh. And I think Sid thinks the game at a level that is just, you know, miles beyond. Um, I think, you know, he's, you got it. I don't know what the market is here. Like what, what, who's clamoring for him, you know, what's, who's even.

interested at this point. Like what the team is out there like looking to take on? I mean, it's three and a half, what, no, 3.2 mil going into restricted free agency, right? So, um, it's not like, you know, you could there, you could, the number, he's not going to get a a super friendly deal in restricted free agency. Like if he goes to arbitration or something, it's not like the numbers don't justify that. So I, um, you know, if you're looking to, if you're looking to go get a backup goalie, um, and you need. need that space. That's one place I'm looking for sure. As I just don't think there's been any level of impact from him in the day-to-day function of the team. I don't think taking him out of the lineup

generally changes your outcomes much. Yeah, I mean, and I know they were hoping to put him back with Gino and recreate that magic from last year where they were just a great dynamic duo. and, you know, they try when he came back this year. Hasn't worked. I mean, Mike Selvin played him about last week, eight minutes on the fourth line. That didn't work either. I think right now he's just probably thinking of himself

he might be out of options just because whatever he's doing right now, he's turning to, it's just turning bad, I think is the way to say. I was trying to come with another word. It wasn't coming to me. But I don't know, man. I mean, it stinks that it got to this point because, you know, I like him as a player. He seems to love Pittsburgh,

he loves playing for the Penguins, but for whatever reason, it's just, it's not working out. So they're going to have to figure that out, I think. It looked great in camp too, I think, right?

Like, looked great in the preseason. Look great in camp. Looked very promising, I think, in those circumstances. But, yeah, hasn't worked out. Yeah, I agree there. But a couple other players, Jesse, though, that I played really well this year.

Chris Lattang, who I've said this many times on the pot, if it weren't for Kail McCarr, Adam Fox and Victor Headman, and maybe even Roman Yossi, he'd probably be a Norris finalist this year. Jake Gensel, who continues to, you know, I think defy gravity almost at this point with how he's been able to score almost on a gamely basis. And now Brian Rust as well, who is well over a point per game. You know, I think I'll start with Rust, you know,

before, you know, getting to a couple other players. going into the final segment. Jesse, this is a tough decision. I mean, guys are a free agent. They still got Crystal Tang and Evgeny Malkin assigned, and those two take precedence over Brian Russ, and I know how important he is to the team. But I just don't know how they're going to make that work.

I mean, at this point, he's probably asking for at least five times six. To me, man, I think I have a hard time paying that just because I know what happens to those kind of players after the age of 30. And it doesn't end well sometimes. And it just, it scares me because, you know, what if there is a fall off?

Yeah, fair. Fair concern. Great player, though, don't get me wrong. And I would love to keep him. But,

I mean, he's asking, he's probably asked for at least six. And honestly, I think he might ask for six and a half to seven. Yeah, I mean, result,

I mean, people will pay him that. Right? I mean, he'll get it. I have any question about that. He would get it. On the open market.

Go ahead. Edmonton, Pam, that's like, they cut everybody and start their rebuild all over again this year in the off season.

They'll go out and give Brian Rust 8-mill for nine years and that'll be his, that'll be what sets them, sets them up for life. No trade with David and dry saddle for her.

Yeah. I, you have to at least try to find a way to make this happen, right? Like, uh, longevity-wise,

he's been doing this for years now. So this isn't on a flash in the pan situation. The guy has figured it out like he knows, you know, how to, when to carry the puck and to be effective, how to do it. There's one player on this team that cycles the puck statistically, again, off the shutdown line data better than him.

Sidney Crosby, no surprise. That's your list. Sidney Crosby, Brian Rustin, everybody else. And I think he's a great fit for the system or any system that plays a fast, up-tempo style game that can put him on the front foot. He and Evan Rodriguez share a lot of similarities and how they sort of like found it in its terms of like if I carry the puck more and I'm on my front foot more I have more opportunity. So something to consider, you know, but you look, this is a crazy, crazy, crazy with money. You know, the owners will constantly, constantly cry and bemoan situations that they themselves have put themselves in.

Right. Like they, no one is responsible for these decisions but them, right? And, you know, they're going to throw the money around. So pandemic or not, a player like that gets paid. You love, I, you know, you have to think, I have no, there's no inside scoop here. You have to think like he's partial to want to stay, right? Like, given the winning that he's done here, this is where he's been drafted. I mean, this has been a whole career here. You would have to think that his, it started a family here, start a family, became a dad. You'd have to think he'd want to say. Names like Kappan, Zucker, coming off of the books, and get you closer to this as a possibility, right? But what you can't do, hunt, you can't go out and pay Chris Lattang $6 million a year and keep Brian Rust, right? I don't know how much truth there is to that report. I don't know if that's even accurate, right, that Lattang is looking for a raise. or whatever it is, you know, Josh reported that he'd heard that in the athletic.

But what I'm saying is the pathway is there because you already got some names that you're probably going to be jettisoning off the books that are taking a big chunk change up off of you. With some creativity, you could make it work. Is it going to make you a little more top heavy? Probably. But the fact that you've got like guys like Hinen and McGinn and some of these other players on really cheap deals, you've got young players that are coming up that you probably ought to give

a shot to that are going to have to fill out your bottom six on on lower cost deals. My point is, is it can happen. And I hope it does. I think he's one of the better forwards in the National Hockey League point blank full stop, period. And you try to keep guys like that. I would love to, don't get me wrong, you know, but, you know, gun to my head if you're making me choose

between paying Brian Rust and Chris Littang, I mean, I'm taking the number one demon, I think, every day of the week just because if he's out. Depends on the, I got to do it at the right cost. I got to do it at the right cost. Yeah. I think you got to be fair. Because, you know, Le Tang, I think, I get his point. If what that report says is true, you have a guy who's at the end of his year and is looking to make good on his ability.

This is on. This will be his final contract, I would think. Outside of a team giving him a one-year deal to come back and play in some capacity, you know, a la Sergei Gonchar, right, like late in his career in Dallas. sure maybe, right? Like, that's possible. I could see that. This is the last one who'll get paid on, Hunter.

This is the last one who get paid on. So, you know, the penguins are just in absolutely no position to do that. And I don't know that he's in a much of position to demand it, you know, given the fact that they have Pierre Olivia Joseph, who, you know, they feel very good about and they think could step in and move pucks like crazy. So we'll see. It's got to be fair. It's got to be fair.

Yeah. I mean, you know, I've thrown up. out there, you know, five times, you know, seven something for Latang, four times seven, you know, four times eight if they wanted to, though, that would be, it's tough because I see the pros and cons to it, eight million with where he has age-wise, he can fall off anytime, right? I mean, but this is also, I think, one of the most conditioned hockey players in the league and someone who is a freak during the offseason. So, I mean, I personally think he would be okay. And, I mean, I would still rather pay him and Juno than let Russ walk because, I mean,

there is a good free agent class out there. That's the thing. but will they have money for that? Probably not. I mean, no, yeah, probably not. People have been throwing out a lot of names out there that are so that they hit the market. I'm like, you people don't realize that the Penguins, when was the last time they were really involved in a free agent class? I mean, Jim Rutherford was here for however many years.

And he didn't really, outside of the stupid Jack Johnson deal, he didn't really do too much in free agency. Okay, maybe Matt Hunwick, but, you know, whatever. But he didn't really go out and sign a big fish, I guess is the point I'm trying to make. And I don't think Ron Hextall would do that either. But, you know, for, we'll still a lot more to get to for our next day. We're going to go into the discussion about Jake Ensle, of course, Chris Tangsies, and then of course a couple of other things as well.

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I'm your host, Hunter Hodes. Remember to follow me on Twitter at Hunter Hodes. You can also follow the shows for L.O. underscore Penguins. So, Jesse, you know, as I alluded to, Jake Gensel, he's been a freak this year. I'll always say this. You give him the smallest bit of space. Good night, Irene.

You're cooked. You don't even need to give it to him. He'll find it. He'll take it from you. You know, I think that's the big thing. He's like a poltergeist in the sense that, like, you know, he's just a ghost. You can't see him. and he loses himself in the flow of the play and the lanes,

he goes the reverse direction of everyone else so much that you're not paying attention. If you're a defenseman, your job's playing the foot, you're not paying attention to the guy that's skating away from you, the opposite way, you know, but he's looping around to come back in unseen and strike. And his dad's a coach, man. That's really it. Like there's not a whole lot else I think you could say about Jake Gensel, other than his dad is a really good hockey coach.

And it shows I think he spent all of his life. life, probably absorbing information from his dad. And man, does it like, it comes through on the ice. Because all of this stuff is like, it's just a coach's dream. You know, you want players to do this kind of thing and not to take credit away from Jake. But I feel like that influence plays such a big role on the way that he plays the game because it really is so sneaky. And he's never, you know, dating all the way back to, you know, where he came from. He's never been the biggest player on the ice. You know, he's always been a little smaller, a little undersized and he's had to find creative ways to get, you know, to get to that space. So I think that in and of itself prevents a whole other

whole other aspect to it. Yeah. And you wrote in your piece how, you know, you dived into the video. And I think the one that really stood out to me was the goal in Edmondson, where, you know, he's right out the face off dot almost to the left, goes to the other side to set himself up. No one even knows that he's over there. Passed to him, oh, you're done. Good night. And then he just does that so consistently now. And, you know, teams are just, they're not figuring it out. And, you know, right now, I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if he hits 40 again this year. I mean, he probably will with how he's going. He's on one of the best contracts in hockey. He's just a perfect fit with Sid. I have to mention Hunter real quick. Before I forget this, because I'll forget it. If you think, remember, there was a time, and I'm not going to call anyone out by name, there's a time at the beginning of the season where a lot of people are like, where's Gensula? He's not scoring, blah, blah, blah. And I, a lot of us kept saying, you and me both, that he's drowning and he's, he's drowning and he's. scoring chances. He's drowning in them. And it's going to be a matter of time. Regression, maybe. It comes. And if you remember the goal that did it, Florida, behind the net,

threw it from behind the net, off the pads and in from the back. And that was the goal that started the whole thing. And the point I was trying to make that in my piece, and I probably could have spent more time on this is that's why when you score 40 goals, that sticks with you forever. It never goes away. People will always refer to you as a 40 goal score. And when you hear things, like when people, when you see someone do something and it's like, oh, that's a 40 goal score. That's a mark of a 40 goal score. That's the kind of stuff that people talk about is like the ability to just know I can behind the net. I have a lane to pass this off of goalie's patent in from from behind the net.

Like that's a 40 goal scorer thing. So I never bet against him hitting 40 because he's got the tools to do it. And he can score goals from circumstances that just nobody should have opportunities to score goals in. well Jesse I always thought it was because he wasn't physical enough or I mean I do think that he made that you know he did he did make that a point like in the off season is I want to get like stronger and more durable but I don't think that's the reason he's playing well you know I think it's more of the same for him it's just you know the puck's going in right it's just you can't you can never you know we're talking about you know the one playoff series he comes

back after not playing for eight months because of a collarbone, right, or whatever it was. He broke his, you know, shoulder. That was what it was, yeah. And then, you know, the next year, rate doesn't play well, five games. It's just such a small sample size. It's such a small sample size. Yeah, you got people with the all season saying to trade him for Matthew Kachuk, and he's like, what are we doing here?

Yeah, I just, you know, he's one of the top, in my opinion, you know, easily in one of your top 10 pure goal scores in the national league. I thought that's just me. Yeah, you can't, they don't grow on trees. So you're giving it up. You better be able to go find it somewhere else. Yeah, I would agree with that. You know, he's not a product of Cindy Crosby.

That take is hogwash. He can do this with literally anyone. And, you know, I'm glad to see, you know, I think Jayfresh put up a, like, a graphic of just how good he's been this year with one of his players cards. And I'm glad that, you know, I think more more people are starting to take notice of how good he is and just how good he's been ever since coming in to the NHL. Also, before I forget, Jesse, you know, Chris Let's hang, what have you noticed from him this

year? Because I think for me, this is the best hockey he's plays since 2016. He's at that level, if not a bit higher. I know their turnovers on the special teams have crept into his game a little bit. You know, that's been the result of, I think, two goals in the last week, 10 days, if I recall correctly. I don't really like, I think that's just him being, you know, what he is. He's sometimes a high-risk player. He sometimes tries to do more when he should do less, but, you know, he's a gifted player, so he's going to take a lot of risk at times. I get that. I think sometimes, you know, maybe he should keep it a little more simple, but, you know, a lot of other times this year,

you know, he's always made the right read or the right play. So, you know, just what have you overall seen from him where it's like, wow, like this is, it's ridiculous that he's doing this, you know, in his mid-30s. Yeah, so I think it's like, it's just a more tempered game, right? It's a little bit more even keel. It's, it's less risky. You know, I think it's more in line with, I think, what his relationship with Todd Reardon has been historically and how the two of them have kind of performed, I think, in sync with each other. I think that, like, analytically speaking and looking at the data, it's probably not as great as we've become, you know, used to peripherally.

But I still think that it's good. You know, it's really good. And a lot of people have said like this is the best year he's had since, you know, I think since 2016 for sure. It's a different, it's a different kind of good. I think we have to acknowledge that, right? It's just a little bit more level-headed. It's, you know, a little bit more, you know, just approaches more even keel, right?

I think that's what a lot of people have been asking for. is, you know, we'll take a sacrifice, I think, you know, in certain areas for gains and others. And, you know, defensively, I still think there's some concern, some nights, you know, with the turnovers and, you know, the overtime situation with him has been precarious, I think, you know, in certain situations. But, you know, overall, I mean, he's putting in a performance that at his age is, you know, better than, you know, according to, metrically better than 80% of his peers. and that's saying something, I think, for, you know, the environment of this league and how good these young defensemen are. I mean, they're good. There's a lot of good young defensemen in this league.

And, you know, he's not going to, he's not even going to sniff the Norris trophy this year as a result of that. But I think he's been, he's been exactly what the pains have needed him to be, to be frank with you. I think it's been a perfect fit this year. Yeah, I mean, both ends of the rink. as well he can do it all and um you know if he were to leave after this off season it would sting um they don't have anyone that can do what he does um point blank that's the that's the that's the reality of the situation there um a couple more for for for you here jessie will almost scoot up my words there um you know it's crazy to me that the eastern conference is basically locked up um islanders got bled

my Seattle last night. I said it a few minutes ago that they look cooked. That's the team that I think Barry Trots has done a really good job with, but they're going to have probably have a lot of changes, I think, coming this year just because of what's going on with them. Red Wings, good rebuild, but I think they're probably out of it right now. But when you look at this division, you've got four good teams, 50 feet of crap, and then you got the other four teams where it's just like it's not,

it's not, they're not having a good time. would you think the penguins are the team to beat in the playoffs for this division? And because, you know, my mouth kind of waters at the fact that we could get a Penguins hurricane series for the first time since 2009, you know, and the storylines there would be endless, you know, not only what I hopefully get to go to a game since it's only two and a half hours away from here, but, you know, Rod Rendemore versus Mike Sullivan, Jordan Saul Revenge series, you know, they play very similar styles. They're both built, I think, pretty similarly.

Just what do you think overall when it comes to this division, you know, because it's probably going to be the four teams playing each other. Just who do you think has the edge to come out? I am always the kind of person who is going to be scared and internally terrified personally of really good goal to name. And for that reason, the New York Rangers are a terrifying. terrifying prospect because goaltending-wise,

Igor is... But when it isna. Handily. Yeah. There's no goalie in the league better than him with regards to high danger shooting opportunities,

which is not. And I hate that. If you're a Penguins fan, you're probably like, ugh, you know, it's just that, you know,

that's what's outed them, right? That's what's bounced them in the past is like good. The Rangers aren't very good defensively, but teams that either have really good defense

are really good goaltending, right? That's normally the kryptonite for the penguins. So that's it. I think that the hurricanes, that would be, you know, certainly fun, quote of like a more wide open fire wagon style series, probably with two teams that are really, really stern for checking teams. They're really, they share a lot of fundamentals, I think, in that sense. But I spoke on the capitals earlier, right? I just, I don't know, man. There's something over there about that yeah i don't buy it um i think they've outplayed um their performance for a large part of the first half of the year and it did it did eventually finally come up and catch up with them a little bit um so yeah i mean carolina is very good i would go i would go with them right like as far as like a raw

tea like a raw option as as far as who you probably want to avoid in that first round um but then at the same time like the rangers are kind of in that same boat because they're goaltending so Carolina is probably the better of the two teams The Rangers, I'll also mention just based on voodoo. The Rangers, it's funny because they have some of the worst underlying numbers. There are 10 goals per 60 is bottom five below Ottawa. There are shot attempts for 60

for course they are well below bottom five as well. They are carried by him, a Norse trophy defenseman, a Hartchofi contender in Artemi Paneran, a somehow 30 goal season from Chris Crider, which came out of nowhere. And then Mika's advantage at. The rush is just, I mean, I don't mean to be rude here, but, you know, back. Capo-Cocco struggled, like, you know. Leffronier, not live in high-brac. Yeah. Yeah. It's been a mixed back. So, yeah, it's to be,

I would, I would love to see, though, like you said, a Carolina, Pittsburgh series in round two. I think Washington, you know, you are right. They've outplayed, you know, most of like, kind of, like, I guess their metrics so far, though. I just don't think that if they run into the playoffs with that co-tending, I don't think they're going to get very important. And that power play for that matter. Yeah, that's a bad unit. Do you, overall, do you see the penguins through the first half of the season, going into the second half, the all-star games this weekend?

Do you see them as a legitimate Stanley Cup contender? And if so, Jesse, do you think they need to do anything at the deadline to maybe solidify that even more? So, yeah, I still think that they're at the lower tier of the upper group of sounds so weird to say that of the of the teams that are in it like that i think have a legit shot they're at the bottom of the barrel like you know yeah to get there i think they probably need a look i would i would love some more reliable forward depth like with some experience to it but more than anything a backup goalie because i think what you're seeing now from trist and jari

is more burnout related than it is anything else he starts he he's looked gas and he's given up goals that i haven't seen him give up this year and so yeah i'm not worried about him if you can get him some help. And I'm also not, I'm not at all assuaged by Casey to Smith's last performance. I know it was really good, but that's just one. It's one performance. It's got, there's, I need five, six, seven more of those before you, you know, you start to feel like the ship's been righted. You know what I mean? It's just, that's a flash in a pan. Yeah, he saved his job for a week. Yeah. That's, it's being nice. That glove save, it's funny that because that's probably the save of the year for all Oh, absolutely.

It's crazy that Trish and Jari does not have the save of the year, even though he's played like a Vezna finalist. And, you know, I guess I'll also end with that, Jesse. You know, I think right now he should be a Vesna finalist with how he's played. I mean, no one in their wildest dreams would have predicted him to play like this. I mean, you know, I was someone who was potentially ready to move on after that Iowner series. You know, he comes back. Obviously, I think Andy Kyoto has had a lot of help with this.

but he's been more aggressive and, you know, this is just a completely different goaltender. And I think I definitely agree with you that these last few starts of the last week we can have, he's gassed. He was giving up goals that he has given up all year. It's definitely, I think, more fatigue. And he hasn't had it. And, you know, he's allowed to have some of those starts, all goalies do for Andre Vasselowski, who's probably a top five player in the league.

He has those at times. It's fine. I think he's the only goalie that started more than Tristan this year. So I definitely think they do need to get him some help and just overall, man, what a season he's had. Yeah, you know, the option, not the option, but the opportunity for him to fall flat on his face from what happened last season was there, right? 100% was there. I think a lot of people almost expected it. Like it's almost like, you know, there was no question that that was what was going to happen.

And so, I mean, you can't be anything but encouraged. I know a lot of people have said, like, I'll believe it when I see it in the playoffs and they said, et cetera. Like, I understand that. I respect it, right? I get it. I think to stick overall, like, you know, don't miss out on good stuff happening right now, right? Like, this is an exciting run. Enjoy it.

Yeah, I think there's a lot of good stuff doing a lot of good stuff happening right now. Yeah. And obviously, you know, Jesse, the big test will become playoff time, you know, will he get over those demons? and that's, I think, where you really write your redemption story. 100%. And you show the fan base that this is over. And, you know, I'm going to play the same way I have in the regular season. I'm going to give my team a chance to win.

But, Jesse, I think that will probably do it for this episode. I mean, again, man, I really appreciate you coming on. I think our backup goal yomshans, at least, you know, be funny if they got Halak or Baden Holpe just because it would piss off a lot of some of the other fans. And, you know, I don't have to hear the Holpey chance every time. he gives up one goal. So that would be kind of interesting there. But again, man, you know, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. If anyone is somehow not following you on social media, please plug that in here and, you know, just share what you got coming up. Yeah, it's at J. Marshf,

off on the Twitter machine. And then coming up, I think what we're going to do next is really try to, I keep talking about like my barometer for the penguins being the first 10 minutes of a game, like whether or not you can really tell whether they're in it or, you know, the four check test. I want to actually explain what that looks like. And we're going to give examples of like, here's where it's good and here's where it stinks. And then hopefully that'll help people with their own barometers. The last game for sure, I was like, I even tweet.

I was like, well, they passed the four check vibe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Five. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was the one against the Kings, I think. And that was the one I was like, yeah. No, no, no. Yeah.

It's a great. The vibe check, we're going to have to all start tweeting that during the start speech five, penguin game. I'm going to move forward. Hopefully this will help you. Absolutely. So again, I really appreciate it. And I'll be back with another episode on Friday.

Go follow Jesse on the social media and you know, look for his piece coming up as well.