Locked On Penguins - Daily Podcast On The Pittsburgh Penguins - Can the Penguins take flight against the Jets?

Episode Date: February 6, 2024

The Pittsburgh Penguins are set to return to the rink on Tuesday night with a game against the Winnipeg Jets and Hunter and Pat are here to preview that showdown. They look at how good the Jets have been this year and what the Penguins will need to do to win. They also dive into which goalie should get the start and whether Ludving or POJ should get that No. 6 defenseman spot for this one. After that, they discuss some milestones for this game, including Mike Sullivan and Jake Guentzel. The two look back on their tenures as Penguins and how they both have a long way to go for their respective careers before finishing the show with more Reilly Smith talk.Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!eBay MotorsFor parts that fit, head to eBay Motors and look for the green check. Stay in the game with eBay Guaranteed Fit at eBayMotos.com. Let’s ride. eBay Guaranteed Fit only available to US customers. Eligible items only. Exclusions apply.IndeedIndeed knows when you’re growing your own business, you have to make every dollar count. Visit Indeed.com/LOCKEDON to start hiring now.SleeperDownload the Sleeper App and use promo code LOCKEDONNHL to get up to a $100 match on your first deposit. Terms and conditions apply. See Sleeper’s Terms of Use for details.GametimeDownload the Gametime app, create an account, and use code LOCKEDON for $20 off your first purchase.RobinhoodRobinhood has the only IRA that gives you a 3% boost on every dollar you contribute when you subscribe to Robinhood Gold. Now through April 30th, Robinhood is even boosting every single dollar you transfer in from other retirement accounts with a 3% match. Available to U.S. customers in good standing. Robinhood Financial LLC (member SIPC), is a registered broker dealer. FanDuelMake Every Moment More. Right now, NEW customers get TWO HUNDRED DOLLARS in BONUS BETS if your best bet of FIVE DOLLARS or more wins. Visit FanDuel.com/LOCKEDON to get started.FANDUEL DISCLAIMER: 21+ in select states. First online real money wager only. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG (CO, IA, MD, MI, NJ, PA, IL, VA, WV), 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (WY, KS) or visit ksgamblinghelp.com (KS), 1-877-770-STOP (LA), 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The Penguins are back in action tonight at PPG paints arena as the Winnipeg Jets come to town. Hunter and I are going to break down that and more on this edition of the Locked-on Penguins podcast. Your Locked-on Penguins. Your daily podcast on the Pittsburgh Penguins. Part of the Locked-on Podcast Network. Your team every day. Welcome back, Penguins fans, to another edition of the Locked-on Penguins podcast.

I am one of your host, Patrick Damp. You can follow me on Twitter at Synonym 4Wet. Joined as always by the illustrious Hunter Hodes. You can follow him on Twitter at Hunter Hodes. You can follow the show's account at L.O. underscore Penguins. And we thank you for making this your first listen or watch of the day. Because we're your team every day and we are free and available on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.

Today's episode is brought to you by Sleeper. Download the Sleeper app and use promo code Locked on NHL to get up to a $100 match on your first deposit. Terms and conditions apply. C.C. Sleepers, terms of use for details. So, ain't no rest for the Wicked in these parts coming right out of the All-Star break. And for the Penguins, it is going to be a serious challenge as they make their push to the playoffs as they are seven points out as we record this on Tuesday morning. Penguins are welcoming in one of the best teams in the Western Conference, if not one of

the best teams in the National Hockey League in the Winnipeg Jets. Right now, they currently sit third in a very tight central division race with 65 points. They are one behind the Dallas Stars and three behind the Colorado Avalanche with a 30, 12 and 5 record, a plus 39 goal differential. And they went into the All Star break, excuse me, pretty hot, six, three and one in their last 10. They are, they did lose their last game before it. However, this is a well-balanced Winnipeg Jets team.

They just added Sean Monaghan, but even before his addition, they have 10 players with 20 or more points. This is a team that the Penguins are really going to have to bring their A game against because you have Mark Schifley, 41 points. Ehlers has 35 points, Josh Morrissey, 34, Cole Perfetti, 30, Kyle Connor, 29. And this is just a good hockey team. And if that wasn't enough, they have one of the best goaltenders in the NHL in Connor Hellebuck with a 23 and 9-9 record, a 220 goals against average in a 924 save percentage. This, well, no easy way of saying it. This is going to be a big challenge tonight at PPG paints arena. On one hand, our long national nightmare is over because the penguins are finally back in action tonight.

But on the other hand, they're going up against one of the best teams and not just in the Western Conference, but in the N8. I'll say this. I didn't expect Winnipeg to be honestly that good this year. I definitely did not expect them to be one of the best teams in the league. They're fighting for first in the central division right now. They have 65 points, one point behind the stars for second, three points behind the Avalanche or third. If the playoffs started a day, they would be going to Dallas to take on the stars in a playoff series. And that would be a series that I would very much like to watch. But you look at the Jets this year. obviously they have, you know, the staples of a Rick bonus coach team, right? They're good defensively, but they also brought a lot more offense to the table,

which is something you don't really see from Rick bonus coach teams. When you think of a Rick bonus coach team, especially during his days in Dallas, you think of a team that is Sanji defensively. They don't give a lot of high danger chances, and they get just enough offense to kind of escape by. You win those two-one, one-nothing three-two games. Oh, no, the Winnipeg Jets are not doing that this year. scoring goals in bunches. Mark Schifley, 14 goals, 41 points, and 41 games. Nikolai Eilers has been fantastic, and he's also been healthy this year, which has been

great. Kyle Connor, when healthy, he's been a bit banged up this year, but when healthy, 18 goals, 29 points in 31 games. Nino Needwriter has also been a pretty solid depth option. Cole Perfetti has been great for them as a young player. You already talked about Josh Morrissey, and honestly, Morrissey could be getting consideration for the Norris, considering how good he's been for the Jazz this year. and then oh yeah Connor Hellebuck in my opinion should be the favorite to win the besner right now the Jets overall they have the NHL's best say percentage at 925 team say percentage they're number one 925 the penguins are at 915 so going to be the battle of the strengths for that but this team as you said it's so well balanced they're very well coached this is going to be a very tough game for the penguins to win considering what they can do both offensively and what they can do defensively there are really not many weaknesses with this Jets team.

And this is going to be one of the toughest games yet for this team so far. Yeah, it will be. And what you said there about it being a Rick Boness coached team, here's the other thing. They've got seven guys with 10 or more goals. So this isn't just two or three guys shouldering the offensive load while everybody else plays to even at five on five. Everybody's chipping in.

And I really think, you know, letting Blake, Wheeler, right? Blake Wheeler walked to the Rangers. I do think that the biggest thing that was hampering and we found this out a lot over the offseason was that they had a culture issue in that locker room. The leadership wasn't great. And getting rid of a couple of those guys

really helped turn this organization around a little bit. And now it just feels like they've got the leadership in place that they need. They've got the contributors they need to contribute. and mix that with a Vesna caliber goalie, and this is a recipe for success. This is a team that we could see go on a fairly deep run throughout the Western Conference playoffs this spring.

Yeah, I agree with you. And another big thing that's really worked out for the Jets so far this season, the Dubois trade. Dubois has really not been that good in L.A. And the Jets got a really solid return for him. And that's been paying dividends, most of which is Gabe Valardi. back in that deal, 11 goals, 20 points in 27 games this season. You also have had Alex Iiafalo seven goals, 18 points in 47 games. That trade has worked out really nicely in the Jets favor,

and that's been big for them because Dubois had been a key contributor for the past several years for the Jets. And now that he's not doing that well in L.A., they've been able to reap the rewards of that and get players back who have been able to fit them a little bit better. That's been also huge for the Jets this season too. But, you know, special teams-wise, the Jets are in the bottom third of the league on the power play. They're actually 24th in the league right now. I don't know, 15.5, 15.6% in the power play. So the Penguins penalty kill should have the edge there.

Also, the Winnipeg Jets, their penalty kill, it's below 80%. So with the new look, Penguins power play, with how it looked at the last two games, at least the top unit, one would maybe think that that's a unit that the Penguins could take advantage of in this game if it maybe turns in a little bit of a special teams out. I think the Penguins special teams, at least the penalty kill is better than the Jets power play. But we'll have to see the Penguins power play can take advantage of the PK. That's definitely not in the upper echelon of the league. For sure.

And if I know Hunter and I did, but if you enjoyed the game against the Florida Panthers right before the All Star break, you're probably going to enjoy tonight's game as well because while they don't have the same level of agitator and villain that the Florida Panthers do, the Winnipeg Jets play heavy hockey. This is a team that is going to finish their checks. They are going to step up and throw hits when they get the opportunity, and they are going to forecheck very heavily. So tonight is going to be a really big test for the Pittsburgh Penguins in all aspects of the game. And we kind of touched on this yesterday when we talked about what this lineup is going to look like coming out of the break.

but if I'm Mike Sullivan tonight, I'm putting John Ludwig in the lineup over P.O. Joseph because even though he's coming back from an injury that was sustained in a fight, he has said out loud, Ludwig has said, I'm not going to change my game. I'm not going to change the way I play. And this is a kind of game where you really are probably going to need his presence in the lineup. Right.

I mean, and I don't expect him to change his game at this point in his career. I know he's still a pretty young player, but with what he's done so far this season, He's shown no indication that he wants to shy away from being less physical. So he's going to bring that element. And against a team like the Jets, who you said it, they can throw the body really well in this league. I would definitely put blood to the game there as well. And also, not just for the physical presence, but as we talked about on Monday,

just to see what else he can do because it's really been a short sample science for him this year, especially on the pairing with Traver-R-R-Weedle, they have over a 52% expected goals-for rate. That's something that I want to see them, I guess, build, around or build upon, I should say. See if there's more there to him outside of just someone who can throw some of it. See if he can move the puck a little bit better than POJ. See if he can defend the net front a little bit better than POJ. There's a lot of positives to Ludwig coming back in line up just because, you know, again, I know I haven't been that high on him, but it's also been such a small sample that I'm willing to see what he can do with a little bit more minutes. So I would

not be surprised at all if Ludwig goes in. And honestly, I would maybe be in a little more favor of it just because of how heavy the Jets play. And that's another staple of the Rick bonus coach team. Yeah. And last thing I want to touch on before we finish up this segment is we're recording this before anything's coming out about morning skate so we can get cold takes exposed for this one. But if I'm Mike Sullivan, Jari's between the pipes tonight, it's another game that I have

made this point most of the season and most of the year. This is a contending team that's coming to town. and we know that Jari is the guy. At least that's the way things look, despite how good Alex Nadelcovic has been in a 1B role. But this is another game where you want to put the saddle on the guy who you believe is going to be your playoff starter and say, okay, we're playing a big team tonight.

And again, as we have spoken of multiple times, Tristan Jari doesn't have to go out and win the game for the penguins, but he's got to put them in a position to win the game. Yeah, and he's also been off for quite a while. so he's been able to just get not really being gassed. I mean, I should say, and he hasn't really been gassed at all this season. But, you know, he'll be refreshed for this one. He's also been great after January 1,

which I know has been a concern for a lot of fans in this fan base. But I agree. I would start him. You're playing against one of the best teams of the league. You want your 1A goalie going up against the best of the best. I would have no problem with them starting Jari. And I'm sure while we are recording this since the morning skate is coming up in a few minutes, we'll probably get the confirmation that,

one of the goals will be in that, but I would think it would be Jari, but we'll have to see. Yeah, plus you got two days off after this one, then you go to Minnesota and then Winnipeg again. So it's an easy night right out of, not easy night, but easy decision out of the all star after the all star break and then two days off right after it that you can pull out all the stops for this one. You don't have to save anybody. You don't have to do any kind of rest thing. You'll get two days here.

So that's going to do it for this first segment. When we come back, there are actually quite a few milestones for tonight's game. And we are going to touch on those right after this. But we have to tell you about our sponsor. And that is Fandall. Happy Super Bowl to all those who celebrate from Fandle, America's number one sportsbook. If you're like me, Super Bowl Sunday is all about scoring the best seat on the couch, grabbing your favorite football snacks and placing some super bets.

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just visit fandul.com slash locked on to sign up. That's fandul.com slash locked on. Make every moment more with Fandul an official sportsbook partner of the National Football League. We're back here on the Tuesday edition of the Locked on Penguins podcast. I'm one of your host, Patrick Damp. Join as always by Hunter Hodes. And it's a big night at PPG paints arena tonight with quite a few milestones coming up here. First and foremost, we're going to see the.

600th game for Mike Sullivan as a head coach behind the bench. Obviously, the lion's share of his games have been right here in Pittsburgh. And there's really no way for me to beat around this Bush, man. He's the best Penguins coach the team has ever had. He's won two Stanley Cups, only coach to do that in Penguins history, by the way, despite five championships in the franchise's history. He's the only one with multiple, and he just really has shown a way to navigate, motivate, and connect with the big stars.

And we've seen it both in the Lemieux and Yager era. We saw it in the Crosby Malkin era. A lot of these guys that they bring in the coach eventually hit an expiration date. And while that very well could still happen with Mike Sullivan, it hasn't happened yet. Right. And you've seen it reported through multiple people that Cindy Crosby doesn't want to play for another coach other than Mike Sullivan. He's really close. Also, quick note here.

I misspoke 800th, not 600th. 800th. It's 635th with the Penguins. So my apologies on that. I misread that. I had my second screen going and just eyes got a little twisted up there. So 800th H.O game, 635th with the Pittsburgh Penguins. It's okay, guys.

Pat's not fully woken up. just yet a little bit. But he'll be at 1,000 before we know. And then we'll be talking about a thousand games from Mike Sullivan, if, of course, he's still the head coach of the Penguins by that point. But as I was saying, you know, Cindy Crosby, it's been reported by multiple people who cover the team every day that he doesn't want to play for another coach.

He is still very close with Mike Sullivan. And I know a lot of people want to get rid of Sullivan and see this team with a new coach. And, you know, I understand that opinion. But with how Cindy Crosby feels about him, I think that's also playing into the decision. to keep Mike Sullivan behind the Penguins bench. And with how FSG really seems to like him, with how Kyle Dubus, it seems while on 10th and purposes,

seems to really like him, it doesn't look like at all that Mike Sullivan's job is in jeopardy. And yeah, I know the last few years have been tough. That's the playoffs last year. They blew the 3-1 lead against the Rangers. They got embarrassed against the Islanders after what happened in game five. Some of those were his fault, I will say. Some others were not.

But I still think overall he is one of the best head. coaches in hockey and if he were to get fired, I think he would get a job fairly quickly, considering what he has done throughout his career as a head coach. You said at the back-to-back cups, but even before that, when he came in to this team, he just brought a presence that I felt like this team hadn't had in quite some time. And they responded to it really right away. And sure, it may be cooled off a little bit, but I still feel like the players respond to him when he goes into that locker

and before every game and gives his speech or whatever you want to call it. Maybe not as much as he did in 2016 or 2017, but they still respond. At least the core players do that have been there

throughout all these runs. And that's what I think matters a lot for why Sullivan is still the head coach. Obviously, this is a very daunting task for him to get this team back into the playoffs. He does share some of the blame for some of the failures, but I don't think he should get all the blame

considering what happened with Ron Hextall Jim Rutherford kind of handcuffed him a little bit. Even in a way, Caldoubis, some of the moves he made over the summer weren't that good in general too. But I still think he is a very good coach, and there's a reason why he is coaching in his 800th game on Tuesday night. You don't get to 800 games if you are a truly bad head coach.

And no matter what happens after his tenure with Pittsburgh, because obviously it's not going to last forever, he is going to be a head coach of a new team, probably after his time of the Penguins. I think he's going to do a really solid, job with that team. I think he still has quite a few years left as a coach in the NHL. I absolutely agree. And I think we kind of hinted at it during our All Star Break content. I think he's going to be Team USA's head coach in 2026 at the Olympics. He's really

He should be a coach next year. Yeah. He really has proven that he is more than likely the best American coach going right now. And as to the last few years, I mean, the only one I could really place at his feet is 2019 against the Islanders because that was just an outclassing top to bottom. It was a sweep. You don't see sweeps very often in this era of the NHL. Usually you see a gentleman's sweep of five games, but that was just an outclassing top to bottom out coached, out worked, out scored out, goalied out everything. And he didn't make any sort of true adjustments to help.

that team bounced back. But then, I mean, the rest of the way out, 2020 in the bubble, 21 against the Islanders, and then 22 against the Rangers, he was handcuffed by goalies. And I mean, you can coach up a team all you want, but the goalie can't make save. There's nothing really you can do as a coach to fix that. But along with Mike Sullivan, we also got to talk about the guy who has been the focus of all kinds of content this season, because you may have heard. He's a pending unrestricted free agent at the end of this season, but Jake Gensel will play in his 500th. I checked, double checked and triple check that number, 500th NHL game tonight. And quite a career for a kid who was taken in the third round, 77th overall, but now has the

most goals through 500 games in the 2013 draft class with 219, 244 assists to go with. it for 463 points through 499 games played. Tonight will be his 500th. And this is something I have said about the Penguins organization that I have admired and has continued to exist for the most part in the Crosby-Malkin-Latang era. They really took a baseball-style approach to drafting and developing. They utilized both Wheeling and Wilkes-Bair to get talent up and through the system, they would take guys you would think, would not think twice of in the third, fourth,

and fifth rounds that would be in Wheeling for a year and then they'd be in Wilkes for two years. And then all of a sudden, oh, who's this Connor Shiri, Brian Russ, Tom Kunakle, Jake Gensel, etc, et cetera. And Jake Gensel is the star pupil for that. Never went to Wheeling, but spent some time in Wilkes Bear. And guy you didn't really hear of for a while, they invested in his development, comes up and now he's Sidney Crosby's preferred winger. It's crazy because you remember, 2013 draft, third round pick.

It is extremely, and I mean extremely rare, when you get a player like him in the third round of that draft and you have him pan out the way he has so far. I did a little bit of quick math when you were cooking a little bit there. So halfway to 1,000, right? So if he keeps up this pace up to his 1,000th game, he will be on pace to have 926 points in 1,000 games. Is that pretty good for someone who is drafted in the third round of the 2013

NHL draft? I would say that's pretty freaking awesome, to say the least. He's been one of the best goalscores in the league ever since he came in. And it's been awesome to see him develop year after year after year. Yeah, you could have made an argument at the start of that, okay, he was maybe a product of Cindy Crosby. He comes up during the 2016-17 season, plays in 40 games. 16 goals, 33 points. Like, okay, let's see if he can repeat that next year.

Well, he does 22 goals, 48 points. And then he finds an even higher level in 2019 with 40 goals and 76 points. Then he only continues to score 20 plus goals, 20 plus goals, 40 plus goals last year, 35 plus goals for 73 points. And then this year, 49 points in 46 games. He has continued to grow into the player that he is now. And he can play with anyone. This is not a player who is a product of Cindy Crosby. You can put him with Evgeny Malkin. and he will put up just as good of numbers, if not better. His underlines with Gino are just as good as his numbers with Sid. He's probably going to make Team USA next year at the Four Nations face off,

and hopefully for the Olympics in 2026. And if he does make both, you will see him produce next to either, I should say any center that he's with, whether that's Austin Matthews, whether that's maybe Jack Hughes, Jack Eichel, whoever they put him with, he will produce because he can produce next to any great center and he's also shown the ability to carry his line at times too. He's such a great player and it's been awesome to see him throughout these first 500 games

and I can't wait for his next 500, whether they're all with Pittsburgh or whether some of them are with Pittsburgh while others are with another team. Yeah, he has turned into a genuinely great player. And at this point, you don't have to say he's a product to sit anymore. You don't put up those numbers if you're just riding shotgun with a guy. I hope he remains a penguin for a long time. I would love to see them work out a deal to keep him here long term because even when Malkin, Crosby, and Latang right off into the sunset,

he can be your transitional captain that takes you into the next era. He's such a coach's kid. He's a smart hockey player and tough as nails to boot because he is not a large guy, but he plays a large brand of hockey. That is going to do it, though, for this segment. When we come back, I want to touch on a story that popped up. in the athletic this morning from Vegas's reporter Jesse Granger about a possible reunion with Riley Smith from the Penguins.

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Terms and conditions apply. That's code locked on NHL. See Sleeper's terms of use for details and locational availability. Welcome back to the Tuesday edition of the Locked on Penguins podcast. I'm one of your host, Patrick Damp. As always, joined by the one and only

the illustrious, the legendary Hunter Hodes, and we hinted on this at the end of yesterday's episode. So shout out to Jesse Granger, the athletic, who covers the Vegas Golden Knights for listening. We appreciate you, pal. Came up in the athletic today. The Vegas Golden Knights, should they talk to the penguins about bringing back Riley Smith after the trade this off season? And he brings up some good points that at this point, it really doesn't seem to be a happy marriage between Riley Smith and the Pittsburgh Penguins.

Not for any nefarious reason. It's not like he's angry at the penguins or Kyle Dubus doesn't like him and Mike Sullivan doesn't like him. It just appears to not be a fit. And one of the things that he brought up was after the trade, essentially Riley Smith disappeared for a little bit. He wasn't really doing interviews. He wasn't talking about it.

It wasn't doing any media. Wasn't active on social media or anything like that. So you would kind of. kind of tell it wasn't so much an anti going to the Penguins thing. He just really didn't want to leave the Vegas Golden Knights. He was a OG night.

He is big in the community there, won the Stanley Cup, was there from the start. So, really tough for him to leave. But in my estimation, I don't think this happens, at least not in season. I think with

his cap hit, the fact that there's so many teams who are still very much in it, that they're not going to be able to bring him back and work out the cap numbers because Vegas, just like the penguins, right up against the salary cap. It would have to be money in, money out. And I really don't think there's going to be a third broker that could come in and make this work that would benefit all three. And if you're going to trade a Riley Smith, it's got to be a hockey trade. It can't be a salary dump or anything like that. That has to happen in the offseason. So I don't see this happening in season.

but Jesse brings up some good points that this this could realistically be another another move between the Knights and the Penguins. Yeah, going back to what you originally said, because I was going to ask you that question, do you really think he wanted to leave Vegas after they just won the Stanley Cup this past season? No, absolutely not. And he had been there for quite a few seasons, as you said, OG Knight has a lot of teammates that he had been there with for quite a while. There's no way he wanted to leave after winning the Stanley Cup.

I will say, you know, going to a team that missed the playoffs this past season, that's got at least sting a little bit. And yeah, he has struggled. I don't think it's because, you know, he's hated playing for the penguins or that he's a sour puss or anything like that. I just think the fit has not been what a lot of us hoped it would be. And going back to what we talked about yesterday a little bit, I agree. I don't think they're going to deal him at the deadline unless he struggles even worse over

the next month to a point where there's just a point of no return. And if you do send them back to Vegas or to whatever team, but we'll talk Vegas at this point, it has to be for a player coming back. You can't just be getting what? A magic beans draft pick, whether that's, I don't know, a second round pick, a third, whatever. That's not going to help the Penguins this year. It's not going to help them moving forward probably either.

So, as I said, it would have to be a hockey type trade, and you're probably only going to do that during the offseason. In a perfect world, Smith bounces back during the unofficial second half of the season. start producing and it's like, okay, we don't have this problem anymore. He can go into the offseason on one more year left on his contract and then potentially be on the team heading in the next season. But again, that's in a perfect role. He has to actually show up and show that he can be that player after showing glimpses

of it, excuse me, in the first half of the season. We just haven't been able to see that on a consistent basis just yet. I think a reunion makes sense, and I agree with you, it probably would be during the off season. I just don't see it right now unless he, A, really stinks during this next month or B, this scene really falls flat on its face over the next month as well. Yeah, that's the big wild card here is what happens with the penguins over the next month. Are they back in playoff contention? Are they still fighting for a spot? Do they fall apart and fall down the standings? If that last thing happens, then yeah, I think trade with him is absolutely possible.

you could get him back to Vegas for honestly at that point probably a nice return because they're really looking to keep themselves alive in the Pacific Division. They're not in any risk of falling out of the playoffs, but the Pacific Division is the best one in hockey right now. And that's going to be an arms race. And Vegas never shy to swing a big deal. That's their entire DNA. But then at the same time, like I was kind of talking about yesterday, that has more

of an off-season move feel to me, just because GMs will have more time, they'll have more to work with. You don't have the pressure of an ongoing season where maybe you have a hot week and you start looking like a contender again or a cold week and things start to look bleak. So that's when you can really start getting more general managers involved in creating a market or if nothing else, getting other teams involved to retain salary or make a three-way trade. So especially because even though with a rising salary cap, $5 million isn't absurd, but that's still some slightly significant money that you have to find a way to fit underneath your cap. Right.

It's not $1.5 million. It's not $2 million. It's nothing easy enough to where you're like, okay, that you can easily make this work. You're going to have to do at least a little bit of cap gymnastics, especially for teams that are up against it, to make this work. I mean, we've seen the Penguins do plenty of these types of deals over the crossing Molkin area where they had to send money out

or involve a third party team. Like, for example, I know the trade didn't work out, but the Derek Brassard one was a very complicated one just because of how much money the Penguins had to send out and just the third party broker and all that. So again, I'm not saying that you would need to do a complicated deal like that, but as you said, you're going to have to, involve another team to may probably make that work at least a little bit better

compared to just a regular trade between two teams. But again, hopefully Riley Smith is able to play better now that we're in the unofficial second half of the season and show why the Penguins traded for him during the summer. And that opportunity starts tonight at 7 o'clock at PPG Paints Arena when the Winnipeg Jets come to town. Hunter and I will be back tomorrow to give you a recap on that game and any other news that may or may not come up and get you ready for the rest of the week as the Penguins are back from the All-Star break.

Like I said yesterday, Buckling Penguins fans, we are in the most exciting time of the year outside of the Stanley Cup playoffs. But that is going to do it for the Tuesday edition of the Locked-on Penguins podcast. For Hunter Hodes, I am Patrick Damp. Thank you always for listening. And we will talk to you tomorrow.