Locked On Penguins - Daily Podcast On The Pittsburgh Penguins - Could the Penguins TRADE UP in the 2025 NHL Draft?

Episode Date: June 10, 2025

Kyle Dubas has his sights set on a big-time power forward in the NHL Draft, but he's a top five prospect. How can the Penguins get him? Hunter and Patrick discuss that possibility (even though it's low) to start Tuesday's episode. They discuss the interest that Dubas has in Martone even though he may be out of reach. The two discuss whether Dubas can find a trade partner for him if he starts sliding in the draft. After that, Hunter and Pat continue their season in review series with Phillip Tomasino. What's his ceiling for next season? Can he work on some of his consistency issues? What could his next contract look like? After that, they discuss Game 3 of the Stanley Cup Final and why the Oilers' antics reminded Hunter of a past Penguins team.Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!GametimeToday's episode is brought to you by Gametime. Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code LOCKEDONNHLfor $20 off your first purchase. Terms and conditions apply. Monarch MoneyTake control of your finances with Monarch Money. Use code LOCKEDONNHL at monarchmoney.com for 50% off your first year.Wonderful PistachiosGet snackin' and get crackin' with the snack that packs a protein punch. Visit WonderfulPistachios.com to learn more! FanDuelToday's episode is brought to you by FanDuel. Right now, new FanDuel customers can get TWO HUNDRED DOLLARS in Bonus Bets if your first FIVE DOLLAR bet wins!FANDUEL DISCLAIMER: 21+ in select states. First online real money wager only. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG (CO, IA, MD, MI, NJ, PA, IL, VA, WV), 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (WY, KS) or visit ksgamblinghelp.com (KS), 1-877-770-STOP (LA), 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Could the Penguins trade up in the 2025 NHR draft? It's possible, and Pat and I are going to discuss that right after this. Your Locked-on Penguins, your daily podcast on the Pittsburgh Penguins, part of the Locked-on Podcast Network, your team every day. Hello and welcome back to another episode of the Lockdown Penguins podcast. I am one of your host, Hunter Hodes. You can follow me on Twitter at Hunter Hodes, joined by my co-host, Patrick Dakin, follow him on all social media platforms at Cinderin for Wet. And you can follow the show's Twitter at L.O on EarthSore Penguins.

Of course, thank you all so much for making this your first list and watch of the day. We are free and available on all platforms. And finally, today's episode is brought to you by GameTime down the GameTime app. Grant account and use code locked on NHL for $20 off your first purchase. Happy Tuesday, June 10th. We're only a few weeks away from NHL free agent frenzy and about two and a half weeks away from the 2025 NHL draft. It's coming up really quick.

And speaking of the draft, Josh Joey had a really good article in the Athletic on Monday where he reported that Kyle Dubis met with Porter Martone at the scouting combine over the weekend. And for those that may not know that much about Porter Martone, to me, he is one of the four best prospects in this draft. He should be a bona fide top five pick. And I'll take this a step further.

I think the top four players in this draft, Mesa, Schaefer, Merton, and Higgins, I think all four could be ready for the NHL as soon as this season. Not everyone's going to agree with that take. Totally get it. I think a lot of people just think Misa or Schaefer are going to be ready, but I will throw Martone and Higgins in there. Martone, he's the real deal, really good power forward.

Could work on his skating a little bit, but really good playmaking ability, Pat. His stick handling is gorgeous to watch the neutral zone and into the offensive zone, has really good hockey IQ. I like his release a bit as well. But he's the exact power forward that the Penguins organization has been lacking in their system. I think he would be a slam dunk pick. if the penguins were able to somehow get him.

But that's the thing, Pat. He's not going to make it to number 11. I think he's going to be a top five pick. But if there's a little bit of a slide for him and he gets down to, for example, number seven, number eight overall, I can see Kyle Dubas and the Penguins looking to trade up for him at the draft, especially if they get the Rangers pick this year. You'll have picks 11 and 12.

You can maybe package those two picks to move up to seven or eight if Martone is there, or even number nine, for example, and draft Martone, if he's available. Again, that's someone that, that's a bona fide top prospect that you can add to your organization. His numbers in the OHL this year were disgusting, 37 goals, 98 points in 57 games with the Brampton Steelheads. The year before that, he had 33 goals, 71 points in 60 games. He played at the World Championships a little bit for Canada, so Kyle Dubas got to see him a bit there.

He got that with him at the combine over the weekend. If he starts sliding, man, I could definitely see a world where the penguins at least consider trying to move up a few spots to draft Martone. I would sprint to the stage for that one just because of how good of a player he is. So let's break this down in two parts for me. One, let's start with the draft order in moving up. Here's the problem I think Kyle Dubus faces right now. And let's operate for now that they're not going to get in what I'm breaking down, the Rangers pick. because they won't know until 48 hours prior to the draft if they're getting that pick or not.

So you almost kind of have to operate as if you don't have it. You look at the top four. You've got the Islanders, the Sharks, and the Blackhawks, and then Utah. Those are four teams who the Islanders have desperately needed an infusion of a five-star top-tier prospect forever. their last one now plays for the Toronto Maple Leafs in John Tavares. The sharks, this is part of their process. They're not going to part with the number two pick. They want that pick.

Chicago, same deal. This is part of their process. They need another top three pick in their rebuild. Utah, I don't see them parting with number four just because they've got a lot of really good young prospects, but they're probably in need of one more really good. really good bona fide top five pick and then they're off to the races they're listening to offers I think for that pick but I think they'd have to be really blown away to even consider moving down and that's a team that's also going to be real aggressive in free agency and the trade market

by the way right and then at number six you've got the flyers they're still in the middle of a rebuild Boston at seven you can tell that they're going to want to probably hold on to that eight is Seattle same deal they need talent and Anaheim at 9 and 10, perpetually stuck in the mud. The team that I would be calling is number five, the Nashville Predators. They are not supposed to be there. They went all in this year. They get Stephen Stamcoast.

They get Jonathan Marcheseau. They are trying to win. They don't want to be a team that's picking in the top five. So if you're Kyle Dubas, you have already fleeced Barry Trots twice this past season. And we're going to talk about one of those fleecings in the second segment. If you can offer up 11 and 12, if you have it, and say, maybe Ricard Raquel, maybe Brian Rust, and you look at them and go, we can give you some more pieces and just to pick a little bit later in the draft, I think they would go for that if they want to move up for that.

For the other part of it, I think you're right on Martin. tone being ready for next year. But what gives me pause is it's very similar to Rutger McGroarty. Everything else is there. The size, the vision, the strength, the shot. I'm really worried about his skating, especially because the type of game he wants to play. Obviously not a one-to-one comparison, but it's very Matthew Kachuk. He is a wrecking ball who has skill.

But if he's going to play that type of game, you've got to be able to keep up with the NHL level speed. And I don't know if he's there yet. At the same time, if there is a world where the penguins can get him, he doesn't need to be ready next year. You can give him a cup of coffee. You can let him play in the HL. You can let him learn from the big guys.

And in a year or two, he's ready to go. And he's part of the solution. So realistically, if they want to do this, you probably have to call Nashville because they're the only team in the top 10 that I see that might be willing to be talked into parting with their pick. Everybody else, I figure they probably want to hold on to it, especially in a draft where once you get outside the top 10,

it's not that you're going to get a bad player, but you're probably going to end up with a project who's going to take a year or two. Right. And I think I hear you on Nashville, but I'll push back a little bit. I think Seattle could be interesting. They're trying to take a step next season. If you can trade up with them and maybe send them maybe some immediate help or something like that to trade up for Martone, if he's available at 8. And again, this is a very hypothetical situation.

I think the Cracken would at least consider that because they want to take another big step next season. Remember, Pat, they spent a lot of money in free agency last year. They signed Chandler Stevenson and that contract is aging like milk so far. They signed Brandon Montour. they've made some front office changes. Jason Botterl is now the new GM there. They hire a new coach in Lane Lambert.

That's a team that wants to get back to winning as soon as possible. And I think Kyle Dubus could potentially call up Seattle and be like, hey, this is what we're thinking for you. Do you maybe want to give us that pick if Martone is still there or something like that? So I would also throw Seattle in there as a team where I can see the Penguins calling as well. As for Martone and other parts about his game, I do agree about his skating. again, much like Magrorty, that can be worked on. Remember at the beginning of this last season?

McGority, his skating was not there at all. His first first need a lot of work. His entire skating as a whole needed work. He comes back late in the season after basically a full year in Wilkesbury. He looks like a completely different player skating-wise. His first-first-first-st-stil needs a little bit of work, but his skating had tremendously improved. I think you will see the same thing with Martone in that department, or that's the hope.

even someone like Ville Coivinen, he had big skating concerns coming out. I still think he needs a little bit of work there, but compared to what we saw from Wooksbury during the season to the end of the season of the Penguins, I felt like he had made some progress there too. Again, it's not all the way done yet, but he's still a much better skater now than where he was when he was in Carolina system and when he was coming out in the draft. So with Martone, I think that's something that can easily be worked on for him. Oh, I'm right there with you.

I'm not poo-pooing the idea of Porter-Marx. tone. Everything else about his game, like mostly, I just really like, you know, he's 6-3, 205 pounds, pure power forward. He can score. He can drive to the net. Really good playmaker, has great vision, really good hockey IQ. I just, I really love this player. I'm, I'm not poop-poo. Like I said, I'm not poop-pooing the idea of trading up to get them. I'm on the same side as you. And that if they can trade up and he's still available, sprint to the stage. Put on your best running shoes and get to that podium and pick them. The thing that I just wanted to make clear is that I think he would be NHL ready,

but maybe not right away. And that actually kind of helps the penguins in a sense because we know that they're not trying to win next year. And maybe he spends his whole offseason and summer working on his skating, comes into camp and looks a lot better. And like you said, with Magrorty and Coyvenin, the skate. skating wasn't there to start the year. Is it there 100%? No, but they are worlds better than they were 365 days ago.

I mean, even to this point, when it was June 10th of last year, those guys weren't quite ready. And now they look like, hey, they have a good off season. They might be on the team full time next year. So, but the thing that I keep coming back to to put a fine point on it is you look at the top 10 of this draft. and I see most of these teams probably wanting to hold on to that pick. And the pushback I would give for calling Seattle is in that sense, if he's still on the board, then yeah, go for it there. But if you do this ahead of the draft,

that's a very big gamble that he would still be available at eight. If you can get Nashville's five, I think you're in a much better position to get them. I agree with you on that. My point about Seattle would be, is if he's still there right around that 7-8 range when the draft is going on. I wouldn't trade for that pick before the draft. I think that would just be very nonsensical.

But my point was if he were falling out of the top five and even out of the top six, for example, and he's still around there at 7 or 8, I would call Seattle right during the time of the draft, right when it's happening, be like, hey, we want to trade up for this player. What would it take? We have some win now pieces if you want that, something along those lines. Because again, I think Seattle is trying to take a step in a season, step or two, honestly. But I think that'll do it for this first segment of today's episode. Coming up in the second segment, Pat and I are going to continue our season and review series,

which is almost over, by the way, with Philip Tomasino and what we expect out of him going into next season. That's coming up right after this. Before we get to that, we have to tell you all about our first sponsor, and that is Indeed. You just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast? Easy. Just use Indeed. When it comes to hiring Indeed is all you need. Stop struggling to get your job posting on other sites. Indeed, sponsor jobs, put your post at the top of the page and help you reach the right candidates fast. Now you can speed up your hiring process with a $75 sponsor job credit. Just go to Indeed.com slash locked on right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Terms and conditions apply

hiring. Indeed is all you need. All right, we're back here on this episode of the Lockdown Penguins podcast. I'm one of your host, Hunter Hodes, joined by my co-Patch, Pat. We are continuing our season and review series today with Penguins Ford, Philip Tomasino. Great job by Kyle Dubas to acquire him from Nashville for not really much of anything. He flees-buried trots pretty badly in that trade. And I like Tom Messino when he was on during the regular season, but there was just a few consistency issues with his game. He'd go a couple weeks where he was lighting the world on fire, but then he'd go a few

weeks where it's like, okay, where was that player? I think if he can get the inconsistency issues out of his game, I think that would be massive for him going into next season. You look at his stats for this past season, 11 goals, 24 points. He rotated in the lineup. Sometimes he was with Evgeny Malkin on the second line, sometimes he played on the third line. Heck, sometimes he even played on the fourth line this past season. You look at his underlyings for this past season. 50 games of the Penguins, almost 600 minutes of five-on-five ice time. When he was on the ice, Penguins had roughly 52% of the shot attempts. They also had about 50% of the expected goal share,

51% of the scoring chances and 50% of the high danger chances. So underlying numbers, totally fine. You look at his numbers with Gino, 40 games together, 250 minutes of 5 on 5 ice time. They were a little below water in terms of shot attempts, but plus one in goals for a little below water and expected goals, 50% in scoring chances, and about 50% in high danger chances. So again, the skill is very much there with Tomasino.

He showcased that in quite a few games throughout this season. But if he can just find a little bit more consistency, I think this can be a guy who turns into a 20-goal score with this team. I will also say this. I think he is the most important restrictive free agent on this team. Yes, I know they have other restrictive free agents and, you know, Connor Dewar, Connor Timmins, etc. But Thomasino is by far the most important one.

I don't think he's going to cost that much. If you can sign him to a bridge deal, that would probably be best. But they got to get that business out of the way first when it comes to their RFAs. Absolutely. I've liked his game quite a bit since he became a penguin. And I think this is going to be, I don't know if you could qualify it as a hot take, but I think he's going to be one of the, should they bring him back, which I really think they should, he should be the biggest beneficiary of bringing in Dan Muse.

Because I've said it on the show that I didn't really like the narrative surrounding former coach Mike Sullivan that he didn't play younger players. They just didn't have younger players to play. They had a lot of classic quad A guys who they were probably too good for the HL but not good enough to be consistent NHLers. and Thomasino would get chances to play with Hvgeny Malkin. He would get chances to play in the top six, and he made pretty good use of them. The problem was this just wasn't a good hockey team last year. I know a bunch of people are going to get upset at that,

but oftentimes the simplest answer is often the correct one, and this is just not a good hockey team. So everybody outside of Sidney Crosby, who is not a human being, seem to struggle. So I think you bring in a coach who's good at development, who's going to give Tomasino some good looks, and who is going to more than likely play mad scientist behind the bench with lines and pairings and everything else, just to see what he has. You look at the way he played this year. You brought up the underlying

numbers. He drives offense. When he's on the ice, the penguins have the puck. The other team doesn't. You look at his shooting percentage for this year. 12.6%. That's a career high. And he matched a career high in goals with 11. And the skill is there. The problem in the thing that that needs to happen next year should he be back, which again, he should be, is to give him extended looks. If he's going to play with Hvgeny Malkin, it needs to be five, seven, eight, nine, 10 games at a time rather than three or four and see if there's something there. Because we know we're not trying to win this year. So give him that look in the top six. Let him iron out some details in his game and see where it takes you because this is a guy who is going to be 24 going into this season.

And twice since entering the NHL, including this past year, he's put up double-digit goals. So see what he has for a consistent time in the top six. Yeah, I would agree with that. You can start him on Afghani Malkins wing if you want, no matter who else is on his wing, whether that's Vili Kovin, maybe Tommy Novak plays up there. all that. I know that Malkin really liked playing with Novak a little bit, even though Nobac didn't play that much after he was acquired. I know that Malkin really likes him, so I can potentially see those two working a bit together. But if your second line to start next season is something along the lines of Villay Coyvin, and Evgeny Malkin and Philip

Tomasino, that's something you can really work with. Even though Malkin is a bit older now, he's going into the final season probably of his career. Coivan, you really liked what you saw down the stretch. Really good playmaker, has great vision. That's a really good fit with Malkin on his line with Tomasino really good finisher at least in sports this past season if you combine those two wingers with Afghani Malkin I think you have the makings of a potentially really underrated second line on this team so I could really see them doing that again if they want to put one of the veterans down there if Rust and Raquel come back if you want to put one of those two on Malkins line I can see that again I discussed Tommy Novak because I know Ginov likes playing

with him if they want to do something like that heck if they all go out there and get a pure RFA like a Marco Rossi, they can put him with Havgeny Monk in and maybe Tomasino, they'll have no shortage of options going into camp in the preseason, depending on what they do with their other moves over the summer. But I do think Phil Tomasino should get quite a few chances on that line to start next season, just because I liked their minutes together when they played during the 24-25 season. And to kind of almost push back on myself, the other thing that he needs to do going into next year has to be on him individually. He has to find that consistency.

I don't want to make it seem like he's a product of being underutilized and misused by the coaching staff. Because like you said, he would go two weeks where he would look like, oh, we got ourselves a bona fide top six winger here for the future. Because he'll be 24 when this season starts. but then he would go two to three weeks where he was invisible. And I know that again, the goal was not to win this year, but these are still competitors. These are still people who want to win.

And if he's going to go, you know, four or five, six games at a time without being noticeable getting or even getting chances, let alone put up points, you're going to get demoted off of a line because if you're in the top six, your stated goal, your stated mission is to produce points, and he wasn't doing it. So part of this is yes, he needs to get an extended look in the top six with whomever that may be, but he also has to bring it because he can't have these stretches where he plays really well for four to five games, puts up a couple goals, a couple assists, and then disappears for two to three weeks at a time. If he has your typical NHL forward dry spell where, hey, he goes two,

three games and he's getting chances, but they're not falling, that's no big deal. But he can't do what he did last year, where he would have three or four games where you didn't even notice him. Right. I think that's the next step in his development is getting that out of his game and just getting the consistency really going here. I think they're going to give him power play minutes next season, probably on the second unit. I don't think there's room for him right now. Which they should because this past year, three power play goals, five power play assists. So granted, that's not a lot, but it's better than what a lot of people put up. And if you show that you can produce on special teams, that's only going to help your case. The other thing, it's kind of quantifiable. You get six game winning goals this year. And I know some of that is, hey, maybe you put the team up four to one and you ended up winning four to three. But still, being able to produce.

six game winning goals when you scored all of 11 when more than 50% of your goals are game winners. That's pretty good little stat to have. Hey, he's got that clutch team, at least for this past season. But I think that will do it for the second segment coming up to end the show. Pat and I are going to discuss game three, the Stanley Cup final on Monday and why I thought of a past Penguins team when I was watching the third period of that Oilers Panders game that's coming up right after this. But before we get to that, we have to tell you all about our final sponsor.

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The floor panthers delivered an absolute beatdown on the Eminton Oilers on Monday night, taking a two to one series lead in the Stanley Cup final, and the Oilers became unhinged throughout that game. And that's what the floor of Panthers duty, man. I tweeted this last night. The Oilers are doing such a great job of not feeding into that nonsense in the first two games. They were skating away, focusing on themselves, not trying to start anything, but that all changed once they got down, and especially by multiple goals in this game.

The third period, they were kind of just throwing a temper tranchion for that last frame, trying to pick fights, trying to run players. And this really reminded me a lot of the late stage damn Bilesma Penguins when they just, anytime a team would get them off their game, they would spiral and they would do the exact same thing. The 2012 series against the Flyers really played in my head again last night when I was watching the Oilers doing what they were doing to the Panthers. Remember the Penguins, James Neal was trying to take runs at Sean Couturier throughout that

entire series. I remember Aaron Asham really went after Brayden. Shen in that series. And again, it was just brawl after brawl after ball. And that's what we were kind of getting in the third period last night, where the Panthers, they were just laughing at the Oilers. You saw Nico Mikhaila straight up pointing at Corey Perry, laughing at him, telling to get off the ice.

You saw the darn own nurse fight. And then, you know, Perry and I think it's Gajovich of the Panthers where he's just making all the faces, just like saying, like, you want some come get it. And the crowd's into it. And again, you can't get. unglued against a team like that. The Panthers, they want you to do stuff like that. They want you mad.

They want you off their game. And the Oilers played right into it just like the way the Penguins did it during the late stages of the Bilesma era. And you can throw the Boston series in there too, Pat. Like that's that's really what I thought of when I saw the Oilers doing what they were doing in the late stages of that game. The last place you want to be against the Florida Panthers is down multiple goals in a game like that.

Yeah. And I will get, you know, I'll get to all the circus of it. But the thing is, what do I always say about the Florida Panthers? They are going to take a chunk out of you every game, every series without fail. And it doesn't matter if it's a two one game. It doesn't matter if it's a six one game. They are going to play their game for 60 full minutes.

And if you're down multiple goals against them, this is an awful place to be for Edmonton. And then you bring in what happened last night in the third period. You are never. I don't care who you are. You are never going to out Florida Panthers, the Florida Panthers. They want you to play that kind of game. They want you to worry about getting your lick back.

They want you to worry about getting involved in scrums, in fighting, because they are a team that can play both ways. They can play fast and skilled. They can play dirty and physical. And they're great at both of them. And Edmonton, like you said, the first two games, they stayed out of it.

There'd be some scrums and some, post whistle shenanaganery, but that's just playoff hockey. That's part of what it is, whether we like it or not. That's just the reality. And last night, they did not do that. Now the big question for Edmonton is what do they do in game four? Because did you get all the frustration out of your system at the end of game three? Did you get your licks back?

Did you have your moment where you let it boil over? And for whatever reason, we've got two days between, games so they can settle down, they can get back in the pocket. Because now, and I know this is, oh, I'm really stepping out on a ledge with this one, game four is pretty crucial because if you give Florida the chance to have the kill shot, they're pretty good at taking it. I know that some of the numbers say otherwise, but you give them a chance to win the fourth game and give them multiple opportunities to do it.

They're probably going to do it. So Edmonton has to go to the beach, go to whatever Zen retreat they can find the next two days, and just let that all out of their system. Because you're right. That was a wholly undisciplined, holy mistake-filled game for Edmonton. And I'm not pressing the panic button for the Oilers yet, but buddy, my hand is hovering right over it. This series isn't far from over, man.

I think McDavid and Leon, they still have another gear to get to. They were not good in this game in game three. Heck, the Oilers, three, that's the stat pack. They had three high danger chances at five on five in that game. Just a brutal effort offensively. Yeah, I know the Panthers are very stingy to play against in that game. Yeah, I know Bob made some saves. But three high danger chances at five on five, just a brutal effort from the Oilers.

It's probably their worst playoff games since games one and two against the Kings in the first round. I have to think they're going to play a lot better in game four. And for as much as I hate the NHL for two days off, when you're playing at the same venue in games three and four, this should benefit the Oilers. They can clear their head a little bit. You said, go to the beach, get some sun, read a book, go get some good food, all that stuff,

and come back, ready to go for game four. You go down three games to one against this Panthers team. Anything can happen, I know, but it's, You're really up a creek if you lose game four, even though you have home ice. Take the old Badger Bob Johnson advice from the 1991 Stanley Cup VHS tape. Get away from hockey. Go home and turn on a Western. Gunfighter.

Don't Kevin Stevens. He doesn't need to worry about hockey tonight. Just go home and shut your brain off. So, I mean, it was, again, it could be an outlier. It could have been just one bad night. But game four now suddenly takes on a whole. a whole lot more significance for Edmonton than it does Florida. So here's the hope in that Edmonton bounces back because if for no other reason,

I want a long series, man. I don't want this to end just yet. Yeah, it's been a great finals so far. I mean, the first two games were amazing before that blowout on Monday. And best far about the Panthers is, man, they can play any way you want. You want them to do running gun? Okay. You want them to shut you down?

Okay. You want them to play like a bunch of rats and get into those shenanigans like you saw last night? Okay. They'll do that too. It's one of the biggest reasons why this team is. been a juggernaut for the last three seasons. And I can't wait to see what we have in store for game four. First two games were great, instant classics before the blowout in game three.

But I also very much want a long series. I pick this to go to seven games and I am going to stick by that. But that will do it for today's episode of the Lockton Penguins podcast. Pat and I will be back with another show for you all on Wednesday to recap everything that Dan you said during his intro press conference and any other news that comes out regarding this team. So for Patrick Damp, I'm Hunter Hodes. Thank you guys so much for tuning in.

We appreciate it. We'll be back on Wednesday.