Locked On Penguins - Daily Podcast On The Pittsburgh Penguins - CROSSOVER with LO NYR: Will the Rangers give the Penguins the No. 12 pick?

Episode Date: May 13, 2025

It's a special edition of the Locked On Penguins podcast as Hunter and Patrick are joined by Jon Chik of Locked On New York Rangers to discuss what he is looking for in new head coach Mike Sullivan. Jon wants to know what the Rangers are getting in Sullivan and if he can get the Rangers back to the playoffs next season. They also discuss the Penguins' coaching search and who Kyle Dubas could look to hire before ending the show with the question that is on all Penguins and Rangers fans' minds: Will the Rangers give the Penguins the first-round pick this year, or will they defer it to 2026? Hunter and Patrick get Jon's thoughts on that before ending the show.Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!Monarch MoneyTake control of your finances with Monarch Money. Use code LOCKEDONNHL at monarchmoney.com for 50% off your first year.Wonderful PistachiosGet snackin' and get crackin' with the snack that packs a protein punch. Visit WonderfulPistachios.com to learn more! GametimeDownload the Gametime app, create an account, and use code LOCKEDONNHL for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. Download Gametime today. What time is it? Gametime.FanDuelToday's episode is brought to you by FanDuel. Right now, new FanDuel customers can get TWO HUNDRED DOLLARS in Bonus Bets if your first FIVE DOLLAR bet wins!FANDUEL DISCLAIMER: 21+ in select states. First online real money wager only. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG (CO, IA, MD, MI, NJ, PA, IL, VA, WV), 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (WY, KS) or visit ksgamblinghelp.com (KS), 1-877-770-STOP (LA), 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN)  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

It's a special crossover edition of the Locked-on Penguins podcast on Tuesday as John Chick of Locked on New York Rangers joins the show to discuss what he's looking for in Mike Sullivan as the New York Rangers head coach. Plus, will the Rangers keep the 12th overall pick or will they send the Penguins that pick for this year? That's all coming up right after this. You're Locked-on Penguins, your daily podcast on the Pittsburgh Penguins, part of the Locked-on Podcast Network, your team every day. All right, so let's go ahead and kick off this special crossover edition here today. This is John Check with Lockdown New York Rangers, joined by my very good friends, Hunter, Hunter Hodes and Patrick Damp of Lockdown, Pittsburgh Penguins. And fellas, first of all, thanks for doing this. Obviously, a whirlwind couple of days for both of our franchises, Mike Sullivan leaving the penguins and joined the Rangers just a couple of days later.

And one of my first questions for both of you is how much of a shock was this? because there's certain Penguin fans that feel like it was very surprising. And then there's others who kind of feel like the writing was kind of on the wall. So just your initial reaction to it and how much of a surprise was this? Yeah, the writing was definitely on the wall, but I didn't feel like it was going to happen this summer. It felt like just his seat was still kind of cold to me. I mean, I had been on the train of it's probably time to let Mike Sullivan go for the last year,

year and a half. And it wasn't because like he lost the locker room or anything. on it was just because the level of play had dipped they weren't a playoff team anymore it was kind of like okay let's kind of turn the page a little bit here i don't think every single penguin's problem it was his fault but they were blowing too many leads they weren't playing well in their own zone it was just a multitude of issues like sir there were a little bit of problems with some younger players not all but some maybe didn't get the chances that they should have but you did see at the end of the season he gave rucker mcgrordy and billy coivvin a nice long leash in the top six

and they cooked, as expected me. These are two of the best penguins prospects that have come up in the pipeline and a long time. But still before that, there were a couple of instances where he wouldn't give a couple of these younger pieces long enough of a leash, while some veterans would stay in a lineup

that were keep making boneheaded mistakes. Again, that was something a little bit different, though. But the way that Mike Sullivan was talking after the season, the first press commerce that Caldibas even had, like it felt like they were kind of on the same page. They're going to keep working together. Mike Sullivan is going to say the head coach. But then all of a sudden, a week later,

Kyle Dubus was like, yeah, this is something that I had been thinking about for quite some time. He even said he was thinking about it during the season, and he felt like this was the right time to do it. John, they said this was a mutual parting of ways. He got fired. That's what this was. He got fired by the penguins.

And Kyle Dubas wanted to turn this over to a new head coach that can oversee this transition phase because this team is rebuilding on the fly. they're probably not going to make the playoffs this year. And he wants a coach that could come in here and really help develop, some of these younger pieces, again, like a Rucker McGority, like a Ville Covenant, Tristan Brose, Sergey Mirosov down there, Yaw Blumquist, Harrison Brunick, whoever they take with the 11th overall pick. That's what it looks like they're going towards.

And that's why I don't think you're going to see them hire a retread coach or anything like that. I think it's going to be a young coach. Again, we'll talk about it later, like a Mitch Love, like a Todd Nelson, someone like that. and that can really help develop some of these younger pieces. But yeah, man, I was still a bit surprised. I didn't see it coming just because of the way Sullivan was talking after the season.

Like that's really my main thoughts on it. The listeners of Locked-on Penguins will know from just being our subscribers is of our show, Hunter was the guy who wanted to kick Sullivan out the door. And I don't say that with any negativity. but Hunter said everything you had to say there, and I've disagreed but understood his points. I was kind of more of the mindset of you've got a great coach here. A lot of the issues that surrounded the penguins the last few years,

you really couldn't point back to coaching. Some things here and there, yeah, you'd like to see him change, but on the whole, you look at what had been going on with the franchise the last four-ish years. coaching was maybe on page two or three of what their problems were. It wasn't, it wasn't on Sullivan. But the shock for me was that it just happened so swiftly. Because like Hunter said, season ends, they do their locker clean out, they have their first media availability. And it looks like Dubus and Sullivan are working hand in glove. It looks like this is a productive relationship. It's two guys who they may have some

disagreements on the margin, but they understand where this, this franchise needs to go. And then on a Monday morning, out of the clear blue sky, they dropped the news that they have parted ways with Mike Sullivan. And then the shock really was the press conference by Kyle Dubus later that day, where the penguins put out this news release, these social media posts saying, oh, the penguins and Mike Sullivan have mutually agreed to part ways. Then you listen to Dubus's press conference and Dubus pretty much comes out and says he fired him. And the thing I want to make sure is clear for the listeners of Lockdown Rangers is I don't think there was any sort of knockdown drag out fight between the two. They didn't suddenly have a falling out. I think in most reporting

confirms this, they just weren't on the same timelines anymore. Kyle Dubus understands this is going to take quite a few years. They're going to have to be patient. They're going to have to be very savvy on the trade market. They're going to have to hit on a lot of draft picks. Mike Sullivan, ultimate competitor. He wants to win. He wants to win now. And when you have Crosby still playing at a 90 point pace and you've got some young guys who look like they are more than ready to be NHL contributors, he probably wants him to speed this up. But that happens. And realistically, While I'm disappointed to lose such a good coach from the organization, you can absolutely see that it is probably time to turn the page,

to let him go to, now we know, a team like the Rangers who are way more closer to contention than the penguins are. Yeah, that's actually something that I wanted to ask you about, Patrick. We mentioned this really quickly right before we hit record there, but we were talking about some of the parallels between this current Ranger team and also the Penguins team when celebrated.

first took over. And of course, he takes over midseason. They win a Stanley Cup. And then the next season, they win the cup again. And it's interesting because the Rangers, just like the Penguins back then, some veterans on the team, also some promising young players, you know, coming along and developing. And he's able to turn everything around at just a complete 180. And the Rangers for better or worse, they're not going full on tear down rebuild. They're trying to retool this thing on the fly. So that's a reason that I got excited about brewing in Mike Sullivan. But what are your thoughts on that like do you see those similarities too between this ranger team and those penguin teams from way back one absolutely it's it's obviously not a one to one no no disrespect to to you in rangers

fans out there you don't have a crosbie you don't have a malkin but you look at the at least narrative parallels right the penguins at the time had a solid veteran corps who had been underachieving They had not been playing well. They'd been not playing up to the standard they needed to. They were extremely disappointing in the postseason. And then they bring in Sullivan and he's able to get the most out of these guys. They go on an unbelievable two-year run where, like you said, they win the Stanley Cup in 16. They repeat in 17.

And the biggest thing that I said to you, John, before we hit record, was when I look at the Rangers, I look at it this way. he's the right kind of coach for this moment for them, because you can see what the last two coaches that the Rangers have had. One gets accused of being a little too player friendly, little too letting these guys kind of do whatever they want. Then you overcorrect. You get Peter LaViolette,

who by all accounts is pretty much an authoritarian coach, who is going to crack the whip at all times. You bring in Mike Sullivan, and he's a blend of both. He's not going to be the best. friend for all the players, but he's going to give them the respect that they earn. He's going to give them leashes that they earn. But you know that he is the guy in charge. The story I always point to, when he took over in 15 and 16, there was a story where

he brought in Malkin, Latang, and Crosby, and said, because at the time, the Penguins' power play up to that point had been terrible. And he brings them in and says, you've got five games to prove to him. me, you belong on the same power play unit, or I'm breaking you up. They didn't light the world on fire in those five games, but they played a lot better. So the message was out right then. He said, hey, I'm not going to take the sticks out of my best player's hands, but we're going to have to work. We're going to have to earn everything we get. And he just commands that kind of respect from players to where they know he's in charge. He will take their input, but he's not.

going to drive them into the ground. He's not going to punish them for every little mistake. But when they're not playing to a certain level, you know he's the guy in charge. Right. And just to go off at Pat's point there, the big three had the utmost respect for Mike Sullivan, Chris Littang, Cindy Crosby, they both said like they never, they never wanted to play for another coach. Again, obviously they're not going to get their wish now because they will have a new coach for next season. But that's just how much they respected Sullivan throughout his tenure here of getting Malkin. You saw him, Pat, giving Sully hugs throughout the season every time there was a big accomplishment in the locker room. Those three had such a great relationship with him.

And I think you're going to see some of the Rangers star players potentially have those types of relationships as well. And the thing with the Rangers is, I think Sullivan can get the Rangers back to the playoffs of everything goes right. He's also going to have the best goaltender as a coach that he's had since Prime Matt Murray in 2016 and 2017 and Igor Shusirkin. My biggest thing, is with the Rangers and him, can he get this team back to being a contender? And can he potentially have them beat some of the better teams in the playoffs? Like the Rangers, they been able to beat some of these teams where they have the advantage in high-end talent.

But when they go up against some of the big dogs like Florida who has a Sasha Barcaw, they have a Sam Ryan Hart, et cetera, Matthew Kachuk. And then he go up against the Tampa that has a Kucharov and they have Stamcoast at the time, of course, and Vasilevsky. They were able to beat some of those big dogs. I'm curious to see if he can get the Rangers to that point and give his top players an opportunity to do that. But again, it's potentially going to be a bit tougher now because some of the Rangers' top players are a bit older. There's contact track situations, all that good stuff.

So it's a really interesting situation here. Yeah, absolutely. And one thing that I have to ask you guys about tactically with Mike Sullivan is something that I understand was a big time staple of his teams in Pittsburgh. and specifically the championship seasons, the forecheck. The forecheck was extremely aggressive. Guys were getting in there, you know, going to work. And that was something that was a serious issue for the Rangers this year. I mean, the four check specifically, but just effort in general was a big time prom night

tonight for this team. So, I mean, is he that guy, from what I'm gathering, he's that guy that will demand that out of his players, demand that kind of effort to demand that kind of intensity, demand that that you forecheck and back check at least once in a while. Am I correct there? Yes, I would say so. I mean, the Angel is a copycat league. Everyone knows that the way the Penguins four checked in 16 and 17,

every team tried to imitate it. Like, wow, look at the way the penguins are playing here. Look at the speed that they have. And since then, you've seen some of the top teams that are still in the league right now, John. They've taken that, imitated it, and they've done it to their best of their ability. And the league is just really taken off, honestly, since then. Like, that was a big staple of those Penguins teams, how fast they were, how aggressively they forecheck.

But he also knows how to shut it down. Like the Penguins 1-2-2 neutral zone trap in 16 and 17 frustrated all of their playoff opponents. They knew how to suffocate when they had the lead in the third period. Haven't done that as much these last few years because the personnel is different and all that other stuff. But when this Penguins team was in their prime in those two great cup years, the way they were able to suffocate teams and not allow anything in the defensive zone,

that was a pretty big hallmark of the system too. So I think we'll have to see if you can get the Rangers to do that. Since obviously the defenseman, it's a bit of a different situation. But that's something you can also look for as well, especially when you watch the Rangers with a lead in the third period. It's a smothering system. I think if I had to tweak a little bit of what Hunter just said, I would instead of use the word suffocate,

I would use smother. I know it's kind of the same. But the thing that was the hallmark of Sullivan's system when this team was really clicking, they swarmed you in all three zones. To call what they did in the neutral zone a trap is a bit of a misnomer because you think 90s devils, right? It's a slog, you can't get through it.

No, the thing was they pressured you in all three zones. They pressured you to the point where you'd make mistakes with the puck or at the very least in the neutral zone, there would be enough pressure that the only option was just to dump it deep. And then the penguins had the kind of speed where, okay, you dumped it deep. that's just a change of possession. So we take the puck and we go the other way and kill you on the transition. So if he can get that out of the Rangers to where they play a smothering style in all three zones,

and then you have the ultimate security blanket with your goaltender with Schisturkin, that could work really well for this team. They're just going to have to find out if they have the personnel to run that kind of system. Gotcha. So we'll keep everything rolling in just a second. I got a couple other questions for you guys about. Sullivan and specifically him with the young players. Can he develop some young players, which I know he's done in the past,

maybe not quite as much recently. But we'll get to that. Definitely want to ask you guys about the penguins search for a new head coach as well and get your take on that. So we'll do all that fun stuff in just a second. All right, we just want to take a minute to let everybody know that today's episode of Locked on New York Rangers and Locked on Pittsburgh Penguins is brought to you by wonderful pistachios.

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crossover edition of Lockdown Raiders and Lockdown Penguins here. And another question that I know a lot of Raider fans are heavily invested in and we'd love to get your guys take on this is young players. Can Sullivan develop young players? Does he prioritize developing young players?

You know, you look at those Stanley Cup teams that you guys had and there were some young players that made some big time contributions. Gensel and Rust, I think maybe the two best examples. even somebody like Brian Dumlin was very young back then. Just your thoughts on Sullivan's ability to do this. And is he as good at it now as he was back then?

Yeah, the thing is I'm going to put a marker down here. And I'm just going to say yes. I know that a lot of our listeners are probably shouting at their radios right now or throwing empty beer cans at their TV. But if you've listened to our show, The thing that I keep beating the drum of is since those cup runs, the Penguins have had what I refer to as quad A players, guys who are too good for the AHL,

but not good enough for the NHL. They're not going to do a whole lot when they go back down to the American League, but they're not ready to be NHL contributors, or they just aren't NHL contributors. But because we're fans, you see a 19, 20, 21-year-old player, and you think, this guy's a blank canvas, he's the next one. You just got to give him a shot.

You just got to give him a shot. Penguins haven't really had anybody like that. Like Hunter alluded to in the first segment, the end of the season, Rutger McGority and Veele Coyvenin come up. He puts him in the top six and they thrive because he finally had young talent that he could actually use. Last few years, everybody has talked themselves into these prospects who, yeah, they might be bottom six contributors or bottom pairing defensemen.

And we all kind of tell ourselves, oh, you just got to give him a chance. They just weren't that. And you give him younger players, which you look at the Rangers right now, they have a handful of younger players who could contribute at the NHL level. He'll give them the opportunity. The next step in this is those guys have to take the ball and run with it. Last few years with the penguins, a lot of those younger guys that they gave, opportunities to, they wouldn't be a liability.

They weren't bad, but they didn't really do anything to earn more ice time. So if you give him the right players who can grow into contributors, he will put them in a position to succeed. Yeah, and just to go off Pat's point a little bit there, obviously, John, I know you guys have Gay Perot, and that was a pretty big storyline to end the season where Peter LaVuette was kind of saying, like, yeah, this is part of the development process. We're going to scratch him, even though that makes no sense. Mike Sullivan, I think, will play someone like that.

One of your top prospects, he was on my Penguin-specific big board during that draft. I felt like he would have been a good pick at the time. But considering how that situation went, considering the talent that he has, I think Mike Sullivan will throw him to the wolves a little bit, play him in a top nine role and kind of see if he sinks or swims. Like that's the type of prospect that that's exactly what he did with Magrory and Coyvenan. Threw them into the top six, saying like, hey, go sink or swim. We're going to put you guys with our big guns.

let's see how you do. And they show that they were NH already heading in the next season. They also played on the top power play to end the season as well. I think you're going to see something similar with Gabe Perot because he is a legitimate prospect who is probably NH already but did not really get to showcase that here down the stretch. And then they burned a year of his ELC for reasons that I still don't even understand, John.

So someone like that I think could really benefit from Mike Sullivan as a younger player. Yeah, that's a whole storyline in and of itself. Peter Lavio Lett and what he did with Gabe pro at the end of last season. I mean, it's like, like, I guess the idea was he's still clinging to this idea of that they could still get into the playoffs. But I don't know, man, when you, when you're throwing like you so parsing out there instead of your number one overall, not overall pick, but your first round pick, your homegrown prospect, I mean, it's just like, what are we doing here? You know, we've just completely lost the plot. And, you know, it is what it is. But it is

nice to hear that Sullivan will give these guys at least a chance, you know, nothing is free. Everything's got to be earned and all that good stuff. But it's good to hear that, you know, he won't just automatically defer to the veterans because I think that's something that we see from so many coaches around this league. But speaking of the veterans, I wanted to ask both of you about this. A couple of Ranger veterans, I mean, honestly, pretty much the entire team is coming off of a downseason. But if we really want to focus it on like those high paid, you know, supposed superstar players that the Rangers have, guys like Mika Zabanajad, guys like Chris Kreider, guys like Vincent Trochek, you know, all of them took a step back this past season. And Kreider, we're not even sure if he's

coming back. But if those guys are all there, if they're all in the fold, I mean, does Sullivan have any kind of a track record of kind of like reinvigorating veterans, whether there are guys that have been on the penguins for a while or like veteran free agents that came in. You know, Kevin Hayes maybe is an example of that. But can he do that? Can he get the most out of guys that have kind of, I don't know what the word is, maybe like plateaued or even kind of regressed as they've gotten older and kind of reinvigorate them a little bit? He, I think it depends, right?

Obviously, you look at the situation when he came into the penguins a decade ago. It wasn't that Crosby and Malkin and those guys had taken a step back per se. They were still playing fairly well. The problem was, at least at the time, and I think this is actually going to fold in to make it a yes for Mike Sullivan is when the penguins were in their malaise at the end of Dan Bilesma and through the experiment that was Mike Johnston, they just got a little too comfortable.

Dan Bilesma, it's an old penguins. I don't even know you can say meme because I don't think meme was a word yet in the late 90s early 2000s where Dan Bilesma kind of at the end brought back the Penguins Country Club. There was not a lot of accountability. He was letting guys get away with things. He was a little too player friendly. And then Mike Johnston was just the wrong coach. He was defense first.

and you look at that roster, that roster needed to be all gas, no breaks, forget about defense, let these guys run. But I do think with Sullivan, an underrated part of his coaching ability is he puts players in a position to succeed. He's not going to ask, to quote our good friend and frequent guest of our show, Jesse Marshall, he's not going to ask a cat to bark and then get mad when the cat can't bark. So he's not going to put these guys in positions that they're unfamiliar with. He may use them in situations you're not a big fan of, but he's not going to continually try that.

If he sees that Zabinajad's not working in a certain role, he'll move him around. If Kreider comes back, he won't try to make him turn into, you know, a defensive Selky candidate. He's going to let him go run. So like I said, an underrated part of him is he knows where to. put certain talent. So if these guys had down years under a coach that you could kind of tell they had checked out from, that could spell good news for the Rangers. Yeah, I do think all that is fair. I guess the biggest thing is, you know, they are another year older. So can they get back to the level that we've seen the play at during their times as Rangers? You know, not this past year,

but last year, you know, Vince Trochec has a career year. It was a Benajad a few years ago, has a career year, Pernar and has continued to be really good throughout his Ranger's tenure, but it's funny, that contract is getting close to being almost up, which is crazy to say because it feels like that contract was just signed literally yesterday. So I'm just, I guess I'm a bit curious to see if he can get them back to their previous levels, even though they're kind of out of their prime or so-called peak years in the NHL. My biggest curiosity is what they're going to do with their roster construction this off season.

That's the biggest thing. what are him and Chris Schroery going to really look for? Because you look at their defense, a lot of those guys are signed, not just for this upcoming season, but for the next seasons. A lot of the forward group is filled out. I think they're going to have to get a bit creative if they really want to add a true other difference maker to really kick this thing into high gear and really potentially even be a contender next season.

That's just me, though. Yeah, I mean, any of that is possible. The thing that makes it difficult, though, is they just don't have a ton of cap space to work with. And that's part of the reason why I do think there's a decent chance that you see Chris Kreider get traded this offseason, among other reasons. I do think that maybe Sullivan being the coach maybe increases the chance of that he stays because the two of them do have a history together.

And they were together recently at the four nations. So maybe Sullivan goes to bat for him and he says, this is my guy. I want him here. And maybe that works in Kreider's favor. But we'll see what happens there. I do definitely want to ask you guys about the penguins search for a head coach. Because I'm kind of out of the loop. I don't know if there's somebody that's a favorite.

I don't know who you guys would prefer. So definitely curious to find out about that. And we'll do all that in just a second. All right. So keeping everything rolling here on this very special crossover edition of Locked on Rangers and Locked on Penguins. And fellas, you know, we talked about Sullivan for quite a bit here. And again, thank you so much for giving some intel on him, you know, going into this

upcoming season. But I got to ask you about your own head coaching search. It's not a situation that either of you or Penguin fans are used to being in here. So for starters, I mean, is there? a certain type of coach you would like. I think earlier, I think it was Patrick that mentioned you might see somebody as a first time NHL head coach rather than a retread. Is that kind of where you guys are at, though?

Like, are you looking for somebody that, you know, hasn't been an NHL head coach before and somebody you can kind of catch lightning in a bottle with, you know, going forward into next season? Yeah, that's kind of what they're looking at. I don't think it's going to be a retread like a Peter LaVuillette, Gerard, go on, anything down that road. Yes, the memes would be hilarious at John Torrelli. took over, but that's not happening here, people.

I don't even know if he's ever even going to be an NHL head coach again just with his age and then how long he's been a coach and all that stuff. I don't think they're going to hire a retread. I think they're going to go after a younger coach who doesn't have maybe as much NHL head coaching experience again. Someone like a Todd Nelson makes a lot of sense to me, he's been doing a great job in Hershey, Washington's AHL team. They just beat Leighi Valley in the HL playoffs this past weekend.

he's been doing a great job there. Someone like Mitch Love, Capital's assistant head coach is Spencer Carberry. Pat and I were kind of discussing this during our Monday episode thinking about, are they trying to look for their next Spencer Carberry or is it going to be a little bit different? And I feel like it might be a bit of a mix. I think maybe the dream is to get their next Spencer Carberry. But that's easier said than done because Carberry has become one of the best coaches in the league these last couple of seasons.

But I think it's going to be a younger coach who maybe doesn't, has never been a head coach at the NHL level before, but is ready to take on that role. Those are just two names I've thrown out there. I've heard a couple rumblings that Jessica Campbell might get an interview from Kyle Dubus of the Seattle Cracken. We'll have to see on that. But again, you're going to see a coaching fool here that it's not just a bunch of retreads.

Like I think Kyle Dubas wants someone that can really come in here and oversee the development of some of these younger pieces, will also someone that can kind of just ease the big three into their final few years of their career. This might be Afghani Malkins last year of his career. Last year of his current contract, we'll have to see what happens. Crystal Tank still has three years, Crosby has two. So they're looking for a coach that can kind of oversee both of those things at the same time

as they kind of go into this period of, you know, transition rebuild on the fly. Yeah, I don't really have a ton to add to that. Hunter kind of hit all the points. The one thing I do want to kind of bring up again that I said on our Monday show is I know the narrative is that they're looking for their Spencer Carberry, but I push back on that in only a little bit of a way. Obviously, they want to find the next young up and coming who's going to be a really good coach who hasn't gotten their shot yet. But the narrative of it was with Spencer Carberry, that was the kind of coach that the caps needed because they knew they were ready. to take a step. You still have Alex Ovechkin. You've got a bunch of young homegrown players as well as some reclamation projects who you knew we're going to work out. So you knew that team was ready

to take a step. Penguins aren't there yet. They will be in two or three years. They'll be ready to take a step with these young players, hopefully developing. You take some swings on the trade market and free agency. So I know the narrative is they want to get the next Spencer Carberry, but realistically, that's not quite who they need just yet. They should continue to look for a young coach just because it can be a completely blank slate. You can learn from three great players who have carved out Hall of Fame careers, and you can build positive relationships with the young players coming up to usher them into the next era of Penguins hockey. So obviously, this is early on in the search.

Dubus is over at the world championships as Canada's GM. So he's really a little bit behind on this because he's focused on what team Canada is doing right now. And then once he gets back to North America, then I think we're going to start, especially once the world championships end, we're really going to start seeing this process get moving. Makes sense. If it happened to be a retread coach, is there anybody that's like your front runner? I mean, we don't have to spend a ton of time on this, but I see Hunter shaking his head. And I'm kind of the same way because, like, of all the retreads, like Sullivan was my top pick for the Rangers.

But there is that part of me, and both of you guys touched on it. They would have preferred a younger coach. And it's funny, the Rangers had their guy. He was right there. Chris Knoblock was coaching the Wolfpack for a bunch of seasons, doing a good job there. He even, there was that situation where David Quinn got COVID. And so had the entire Ranger coaching staff. And Knoblock coached the Rangers for like six games.

It was right there. And then with Lobbio Let instead. And you're one with Lobbio Let. You can't argue against that. It was a great season. But Knoblock now flourishing with Edmonton. But if there was a retread, just to throw out a name just for fun here, who would you go with?

If you want to count him as a retread, sure, whatever. I don't, Jay Woodcroft. Okay, okay. That's a retread, though. That would be my answer. It's not quite a retread. Hunter said it on our Monday show. There was some speculation of Drew Bannister from St. Louis.

Hard pass from me on that wasn't very good. we saw what St. Louis was able to do once they got rid of them. So if there is ever a retread, and again, like Hunter said, it's a quote unquote. It's Jay Woodcroft. But other than that, I don't think Kyle Dubus is going retread. I think he wants to go new, young, get a fresh perspective and help this team move into another era. Yeah, one other name that I'll throw out there because I watched your episode after Mike Sullivan got fired. And like Hunter, I think it was you that talked about this.

but like the guy that's like just such an overrated NHL head coach, at least going by his track record, is Rick Tockeet. Like the dude's made the playoffs twice in 10 years. This dude has a great PR team, man. You look at Tockeet. And I'm like, I'm like, why? I'm telling you, John, he has a great PR team.

Yeah. Great friend of the show. He comes on our show all the time. Josh Yewet, he wrote a piece about Rick Tocket. And I'm like, Josh, we don't need this, man. We don't. Rick Tocket is very overrated. His PR team is just awesome.

though. You see it's talked about him 32 thoughts all the time. Like, oh, he's high on Philly's list, but we don't know if he's going to go there. What about Boston? What about Seattle? It's like, we really doing a bidding war for him at this rate? I don't know. It's just funny to me. I think he can succeed in the right situation, but people talking about him like he's the next Scotty Bowman. It's like people got to chill here. I will say, he referenced Josh's piece. I will say if the only concern for the penguins right now, was keeping the big three happy before they retire. I'd be all for Rick Talkett because they love him just like they loved Sullivan, but they're not thinking short term right now. They're thinking long term. So to me, that kind of spells out. They like them. They respect him.

He's probably going to get maybe a phone call or an interview, but I would highly doubt if he gets hired as the Penguins coach. Yeah, that makes sense. And one more thing that we got to talk about, very unique situation coming into the NHL draft this year. Penguins have the number 11 pick. The Rangers have number 12. But the Rangers have a really interesting decision to make because they owe the penguins a first round pick.

It's either this year or next year. They have until 48 hours before the draft to decide. And I think they'll wait right up until the zero hour just because there's no reason not to. But it's a difficult decision. And I've been debating it on my show. Do you guys have a preference? Would you want the number 12 pick this year? or would you rather the Rangers keep it and just kind of roll the dice and see wherever you end up picking next year instead?

This is this one's difficult because there was an episode a couple weeks back. Hunter was on vacation. I went on a solo journey myself and I go back and forth on this because I think realistically before the Rangers hired. Sullivan, I was advocating for go ahead and keep this year's pick because if they would have hung on to La Villalette and just kind of run everything back, hope they give you next years. Because looking at the way the team was heading under La Volette, I was like, they're probably going to be worse next year. So give us a big nice time pick in 2026. Now with Sullivan, it kind of feels like the fire's been lit.

They're probably going to be better next year. So, I mean, if I'm the Rangers, I think you probably give the Penguins the 2026 pick just because you're going to be better next year. It won't be a top 10 pick more than likely. I will say this, though, if the Rangers were to hold on to next years and give the penguins this year's, if I'm Kyle Dubis, as soon as I get that information, I'm on the phone with every team in the top 10. And I'm trying to package the two picks together to move up in the draft to see if I can get

somebody better. But realistically, I do think that at the end of the day, I think the Rangers will probably hold on to this year's and give the Penguins next year. I do think they will hold on to this pick and give that pick next year. And hey, it still creates a pretty intriguing situation because say, just throwing it out there, the Rangers maybe aren't that good next year. Then you have the opportunity to have an unprotected potentially top 15 pick if the Rangers do miss the playoffs. And if the Penguins miss the playoffs too, again, they can potentially have two top 15 picks next year. Like, sure,

the Rangers can say, hey, we'll give you this year's pick. You'll have two picks in the top 12, do what you want with that number 12 pick, and we'll keep the one next year. But as of right now, I still think the Rangers, that is, they're thinking, we want to make. the playoffs next year. Let's just hold on to this one, give them our pick next year, because we want it to be, you know, in the 20s and obviously their goal is, you know, the early 30s because they want to win the Stanley Cup. I think that's what they're going to do. I think they're going to take the chance and hold on to their pick this year and give the 2026 first round pick to the Penguins next year. But I will say, if the opposite happens, the Penguins have an opportunity to get two

pretty at least decent prospects in this year's draft. Obviously, if they want to package the number 12 pick, if they get it, they could try and go get a player that can help right now and well into the future when they start contending again. But I still could see them picking back to back, someone like a Victor Ecclin, someone like a K. Sean Aitchinson, et cetera, et cetera. Now, John, our listeners would want to know, what do you think the Rangers are going to do? It's a tough decision for sure.

And when this initially came up, I mean, obviously they make the trade, they get J.T. Miller, the Canucks then kick that that draft pick over to the penguins, which all of us Ranger fans were absolutely thrilled about, by the way, when they did that. But initially, I thought this was a no-brainer. Give the Penguins the first round pick this year and hang on to your pick next year because generally speaking, I think that next year's draft class is thought of a little bit higher of this year's draft class. So when you're talking about the number 12 overall pick this year, that might be the equivalent

of picking, say, like, 20th next season, given that it is just a deeper and more highly thought of draft class. But the more I think about it, you know, you look at what the Rangers are doing and they're retooling this team on the fly for better or worse. And we can debate that strategy all we want, but that's what they're going for. They're trying to put everything back together very quickly and contend again next season. And so the more I thought about it, it's like if you truly believe in this team, if you're the Ranger front office, you believe in all these moves they've made, you believe in all these things they've done, you think these players can round back into form and you've got your coach now and Mike Sullivan, then why would you be afraid of the penguins having

your unprotected pick next season, right? Because if you're going to turn things around and you're going to be back in the playoffs and you're going to be contending again, then you don't have to worry about that. Because the better the Rangers do next year, the lower of a draft pick that becomes for the Penguins. By that same token, though, if things do go really south next season, then all of us Ranger fans have to deal with that, plus knowing that the Penguins have our first round draftic and it's going to be a really good draft, you know, lottery or whatever it might be, you know, top five, top three, depending on how things go there. So I'm still really torn.

The safer thing to do to me is to give them the number 12 pick this year. And I think I do lean that way slightly. I thought initially like this is a no-brainer, give them this pick this year. I'm still slightly that way. But I'm a lot more conflicted on it than I thought I would be initially. It's kind of where I'm at right now with that. Yeah, my biggest thing from a penguin's perspective of it is I don't think there's a wrong answer for them. I think regardless of what the Rangers go with, like I said, if you get this year's,

you have a potential to package it and maybe package the 11th overall as well to either move up or go get a younger player who is falling out of favor or even is a higher rated prospect. And then if you get next years, you just got to hope that things don't go that well for the Rangers. I think they're in a good spot regardless, but realistically, I do come down. on the side that you do is that next year's draft is a lot deeper than this year's. So if you can get another pick in the 26th draft, you don't need to cry crocodile tears about it. Yeah, I hear you. I think like I said, the safer play and probably the better play, give it up this year and

let the penguins have their back-to-back picks. That's an interesting situation in and of itself that you have two picks in a row. And interesting idea there from you too, Patrick, about potentially packaging them together and trading up to get a bona fide, you know, star player. But, you know, I figure we can call it there. I mean, this episode is really kind of flown by today. And it's always great talking hockey with you guys. And, you know, certainly we'll do this again at some point because as we were talking about,

we all have a long off season here. You know, the playoffs are ongoing and we got a long way until our teams are playing hockey again. So we'll definitely make this happen again. Yeah, absolutely, John. Blast as always sitting down with you, man. Yes, thank you again, John. This was great. You got it, guys.

And Ranger fans, Penguin fans. Thanks for tuning in. We'll catch you guys next time.