Locked On Penguins - Daily Podcast On The Pittsburgh Penguins - Do the Penguins need another "star" player, plus so much more with The Athletic's Rob Rossi!

Episode Date: June 15, 2023

We're almost to the end of another work week! Hunter is joined by The Athletic's Rob Rossi for the first time since around the trade deadline to discuss all things related to the Pittsburgh Penguins, starting with the Jason Spezza hire. Rob gives his immediate thoughts on the move and looks at the ways in which he will help the organization. He then looks at how Dubas may structure the front office if he doesn't decide to hire a new general manager in July or August. After that, the two discuss what Kyle Dubas' first move will be (and should be) before they look at how much of a say Mike Sullivan should have in roster decisions. They also look at the latest Jason Zucker contract projection and if Rob would sign him to a long-term deal, plus has Kyle Dubas started contract talks with him and his agent? Also: Do the Penguins need another true "star" to compete? They get into that, along with how Dubas could fill out the bottom six. All of that, plus much more is on this episode of the Locked On Penguins podcast.Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!Athletic GreensTo make it easy, Athletic Greens is going to give you a FREE 1-year supply of immune-supporting Vitamin D AND 5 FREE travel packs with your first purchase. All you have to do is visit athleticgreens.com/NHLNETWORKBirddogsGo to birddogs.com/lockedonnhl and they’ll throw in a free custom birddogs Yeti-style tumbler with every order.GametimeDownload the Gametime app, create an account, and use code LOCKEDONNHL for $20 off your first purchase.eBay MotorsFor parts that fit, head to eBay Motors and look for the green check. Stay in the game with eBay Guaranteed Fit. eBay Motors dot com. Let’s ride. eBay Guaranteed Fit is only available to US customers. Eligible items only. Exclusions apply.FanDuelMake Every Moment More. Don’t miss the chance to get your No Sweat First Bet up to TWO THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS in Bonus Bets when you go to FanDuel.com/LOCKEDON.FANDUEL DISCLAIMER: 21+ in select states. First online real money wager only. Bonus issued as non-withdrawable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG (CO, IA, MD, MI, NJ, PA, IL, VA, WV), 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (WY, KS) or visit ksgamblinghelp.com (KS), 1-877-770-STOP (LA), 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Happy Thursday, June 15th to all, I can't believe it's mid-June. All righty for today's episode, I have Rob Rossi from The Athletic, joining me to go over the Jason Spetson News from Wednesday, what Kyle Dubus's first move will be this offseason and so much more that's coming up right after this. You're Locked-on Penguins. Your daily podcast on the Pittsburgh Penguins. Part of the Locked-on Podcast Network.

Your team, every day. day. Hello, welcome back to another episode, the Locked-on Penguins podcast. I'm your host, Hunter Hodes, and you're going to follow me on Twitter at Hunter Hodes, all the shows, Twitter, and Elmorester Penguins, and, of course, thank you all so much for making this your first listen slash watch of the day. We are freely available on all platforms. Today's episodes by you by Gain Time.

You can dial on the game time app, create an account, and use code of Locking in a shell for $20 off your first purchase. Now, joining me now is Rob Rossi from the athletic. And, well, Rob, first off, how are you doing? Good. Tough week at the athletic, but, but, you know, it's kind of a weird time because the cup final ends and everybody thinks it's kind of slow. And then this is actually the second, second, second busiest time of the year for hockey

rider other than the trade deadlines. So more, more limited sleep and a lot of. a lot of waiting on things you hear about to be finalized. Yeah, I mean, it's for almost two weeks until free agency starts. It's just crazy how fast June has gone by. It's been two weeks since Caldibis was hired. And speaking of that, Rob made his first front office move outside of bringing someone in, I should say, he fired a few people a little over a week ago,

hired Jason Spetsa on Wednesday as assistant general manager. I know a lot of people thought it was a bit weird that he is, the assistant general manager when a general manager has not been named. But when you saw the announcement, what was your immediate reaction to it? Well, a lot like Dubus being a person that the penguins were interested in, once it became available, this was sort of an open secret, right? I mean, Spets had resigned very quickly after Dubus was fired or deceased. missed in Toronto and you know I had heard as as soon as Dubus started talking to the penguins

that Spencer would be either you know likely to join him if not join FSG in some capacity. I think the first thought as it relates to how things are going to be going forward is I think it just confirms what I've been saying since Dubus was introduced. I don't think there's going to be a GM. Dubus is running the show. There's really no need for a general manager. I don't see why he would put somebody at least right away in the position he may have been in where a GM didn't have full autonomy. I envision him hiring multiple assistant GMs, maybe even an associate.

I think Spetsa was probably the first of that process. Yeah, and that's interesting. And I know you've been saying that. I know Josh has been saying that on social media, and he wrote a call about it on the athletic as well. My thinking with it is, you know, I kind of wanted the front office to be shaped like Colorado's is, where Joe Sackick was running it for a while,

but he was also grooming Chris McFarland during that time before he moved up. And then McFarlane became the GM, and now he runs the show, and Sackick just kind of watches down on him. I was just curious if, because Dubus said he was, he was maybe going to hire one after July 1.

If he would hire one, have someone do like the financial slash salary cap stuff, learn the job, you know, just on the fly while Dubus, I think, is making the overall calls. And then maybe, you know, a few years down the line, he maybe gives some of that power to the GM. Is that something that you could see as well or not as much? Yeah. I mean, I have no inside knowledge of how Dubus is thinking on this, but it makes a lot of sense to me that you would hire multiple assistance, not on my, and maybe an associate, very similar to the way it was supposed to work with Jim Rutherford when he took over in Pittsburgh. But I think the big difference is, is I do think under Dubus, GM might be a position that somebody can grow into. but look, Dubus has been very clear.

He wants full autonomy of hockey decisions. It's my understanding that, you know, the reason they didn't name him general manager is because they want him to run all of hockey operations, including be the decision maker with personnel. So, you know, primarily a GM does that. This is just sort of a different title. And I think it's a it's a tough tougher one for maybe Penguin fans to wrap their head around because the only other president of hockey operations was Brian Burke. And he he didn't have autonomy.

He didn't really have a role. So I envision multiple assistants that have specialities, much like Dubus started with when he was an assistant GM in Toronto. I mean, I envision you're going to have somebody who is a CAP specialist, maybe a developmental person, maybe somebody in analytics. I could see as many as three to four assistant GMs. And they would all have specialities, but they could also learn other areas where maybe they're lacking. I would hope if that's the route they're going in, they would be forward thinking enough. to try to put some people who are younger with experience that are qualified, of course, but people that aren't just retreads.

And quite frankly, minority candidates, specifically a woman. I think this is a great opportunity for one of the dozens of qualified, overly qualified, women in hockey, if not with an NHL team, in the hockey. world to get a real opportunity to build the last part of her resume to becoming a GM. And I think with specifics to Spetsa, I think one of the real important things is, you know, players respect former players, but they really connect with guys that they played against. And not that not that Dubus wouldn't have a very good relationship with Penguins veterans. I mean, he will.

From what I understand already, it's developing that. But I do think that if you're looking for somebody who can be in the top ranks of hockey ops and get the attention of the big three. They competed against Jason Spets. They respect a guy like Spets. I think that will be an invaluable resource to both Dubus and probably even the coaching staff. Yeah, I mean, said when against Spetsa so many times over the years, Gino did, Chris, a ton of other players on this team did as well. So agree with you there.

I do agree, Rob, that I would not be surprised if a woman is in this front office. And I've said on this show multiple times that the time is coming when a woman is going to be a full-time general manager in this league. There's Alexander Mandrake who's out there, Haley Wickenheiser, Megan Chica. There's no shortage of candidates to choose someone when it comes to that. And if they do go down the road rob where they name a few other assistants and associate, you know, I've dropped some of, I've dropped some names on my show who they could be thinking of like Cam Lawrence, maybe San Ventura, maybe Brandon Pridham, who of course is in Toronto right now and was worked really closely with Dubus. Do you have any names that Dubus could be looking to add to the front office outside of Spencer if he doesn't want to name a general manager?

Not really. I mean, I haven't heard any yet. I think how the situation falls out in Toronto will be interesting. He was very well liked there. I wouldn't be surprised if Pritam eventually ended up in Pittsburgh. I think there's a real opportunity here for Dave Beast and the alternate governor, the penguins, who led their search to hand over the candidates that he was talking to before he was hired, before they went and turned down the road towards Dubus. But I think Dubus, look, he's been in the NHL for what, not nine, 10 years. was a GM for five. He certainly has his own ideas. I remember when, you know, covering the transition

from Craig Patrick to Ray Schiro, and it really took Ray Schiro, you know, a good year and a half to really build the foundation of his staff. I mean, he brought, he was hired in 2006, and it was the next summer when he brought in Tom Fitzgerald and Jason Botryl, who became, you know, he was invaluable pieces to him. So I don't think this is something that right away, all these positions get filled. And I think that's why Kyle was very open about how he'll be, you know, he said he'll be interim GM through at least free agency. And then he, when I asked him about it, he said, if we go the route of GM, I think he's processing the type of front office he wants to build. I know the penguins want him, or FSG wants to expand their analytics department.

whether that would create an opportunity for somebody like Sam to come home. You know, I think the thing about Sam, and I mean, I would love for Sam to return to the organization because it's, you know, it's his hometown organization. But he's got a really good job in Buffalo with an up-and-coming team. And my understanding is, it doesn't have to be in Buffalo every day. He can work from home here. So, I mean, a lot of people have good jobs, but I would especially look towards an expanded analytics department.

And I'll be curious to see, you know, a lot of the scouts that are in Pittsburgh, some of them even still date back to the Shiro era. And I think they get maybe too much flak because the penguins generally don't, they haven't prized draft picks. But, you know, it'll be interesting to see how many of them stay versus how many Dubus wants to bring in

and how he arranges the scouting department from, you know, European to North American to territorial and all that. But I don't think all of those things get done right away because there's so much to do right now. They have to really look at, like they're, they're fortunate in a way. They got their core and they have coaching stability. It doesn't, it doesn't appear any way than any of their assistance will be moving on. So I think what you have to look at now is probably where we're headed next is them internally making decisions on some free agents and really letting the scout the amateur scouting team continue to prepare for

the draft. I would imagine as is usually the case, Dubus will be sort of only involved in that from the standpoint of, you know, having the opportunity to make the final call. But I think he's going to trust a scouting department on that. He also has knowledge of what this class is going to look like based off the time he was with in Toronto. Also, if they want to hold the pick, I don't have a great feel for that.

We did a mock draft at the athletic. This week, I think it was a second mock draft. And I know I traded the pick twice. I traded down in the draft and then traded that pick for a, for like a third line player because, and I gave up. the Cal Grandman as part of the first trade because I just don't know how they,

I don't know how valuable that pick is. I've seen some people on Twitter be where you can get a top, you can get a, like a big piece for the 14th pick. I don't believe that. I think, I think if you can use that pick to maybe rid yourself of a bad contract and get another asset in return,

that's about the best you could hope for. And I think that would be a big win for the penguins because they, They have enough cap space right now to be active in free agency. But if they could rid themselves of one of their, you know, bad contracts without having to buy it out, you know, we're looking at probably Grand Lender Petrie if we're realistically talking buyouts. I think there's a lot of decisions to be made right now. And so I think Spetsa and Dubas are going to be focusing on those decisions. decisions, letting the scouts continue to do their thing with the draft. And then at the draft, we're going to have a convergence of some things. So if, you know, everyone fans, I think, should be

paying attention a lot the next two weeks. But I would imagine these next two weeks are going to be primarily for them reaching some decisions on a Tristan Jari, on how they handle a Granland, laying a foundation maybe for some trades they could make at the draft or shortly between the draft and free agent period, then see where they go. Yeah, no, this is, these next, what, 14, 16 days basically are going to be, I would say very busy, you know, whether they're working at the arena or at Cranberry at the facility, it's going to be pretty crazy. And I would not be surprised.

Now that the season's over, especially Rob, moves can happen at any time, even though there were some trades that happened during the final, which I'm sure the league was not happy about. As for the pick, I do think this is a deep draft. I'm going to have my big board drop, at least for. Penn-specific players next week. And I do think there are some really good players there, but I also do understand where you're coming from,

where you can trade the pick along with Michael Granly, maybe move down a little bit in the draft. I'm kind of eyeing Chicago a little bit if you want to trade down to 19 and maybe move on from Granlin there. But that would do it for this first segment. Coming up in the second segment, we're going to get into a whole bunch of other things regarding Kyle Dubus, whether or not this team needs an legit star to contend

how much of us say will Mike Sullivan have in roster decisions and what will do Kyle Dubus attack first. That's all coming up after this. But before we get into that, buying tickets to your favorite events should not be stressful. Game time is the fastest and easiest way to buy tickets for all the sports, music, comedy, and theater near you. With killer deals on last minute tickets and their best price guarantee, you can stop stressing over the tickets and start getting hyped for the fun that you will have. It's the price for, it's actually the place, excuse me, for last minute ticket deals. Forget planning months in advance. Game time has deals on tickets right up to the day of the event.

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purchase, terms apply. Again, that is, create an account and redeem code locked on NHL for $20 off. Download game time today. Last minute tickets, lowest price guaranteed. All right, I'm back in this episode of the Lockdown Penguins podcast. I'm Hunter Hodes. That is Rob Rossi from the Athletic. So, you know, as you mentioned, Rob, it's going to be very busy these next couple weeks. I do want to ask, what do you think Kyle Dubis's first main decision will be with this roster. What do you think he's going to tackle first? Goaltending, buying out slash trading my Kyle Grandland,

something else. What do you think in when it comes to that? I would imagine the priority is goaltending. Figuring out where things. First, he probably comes into this with some leaning of where he is with Tristan Jari. and he definitely comes into this with a working knowledge of what the market will be. And excuse me, allergy season here in Pittsburgh. But also, you know, that was kind of a bugaboo for him in Toronto, right?

I mean, I think if people are going to be fair, I think Kyle did a really good job of maintaining a core of stars and filling out a roster. I think he did a really good job of that. but because it's a flat cap, there's always an area where maybe you're not as, you have to be more creative than you want, or you just have to be creative, I should say. And I think goaltending was that area in Toronto. And I believe Kyle is very attuned to where the game is at

from both a development standpoint, from a player evaluation standpoint and also from a salary cap and where the trends are headed. And my guess is he has a number and a term in mind for what he wants to spend on a goaltender, barring something unexpected like, you know, this is hypothetical. Please don't think I'm reporting this. But like, there's my guess would be there's a plan A, which, is focus on Tristan Jari, evaluate Tristan Jari with your coaching staff, come to a point where you want, you know what you're comfortable with paying him and for how long and then negotiating and then

making a decision, right? You're either going to, hey, Tristan, you know, we're not close. Test the market. We'll do our thing. If there's an opportunity to get back, if not, best of luck to you, or the opposite scenario, hey, we're very, you know, we're on the same page here with what our expectations are. I don't think he would be against resigning Tristan Jari. But he has to evaluate him and he has to talk with his coaching staff, right? Mike Chiodo and Mike Sullivan, right? So that's like plan A. I think then plan B with the goaltending is work the phones, get a sense of where things are in places where maybe more proven goalies might be available or goalies that you like that maybe you feel would fit better in Pittsburgh, perhaps even as a as a partner with Tristan Jari,

and you know, try to try to figure out where that marketplace is. And then while you're doing this, leave open the possibility between now and the draft of if something comes up, that is completely unexpected, say Connor Hallibuck becomes available. And you, you, if by chance, you have an opportunity to make that move. And I think the Penguins would lack the assets to make that move unless a team like Winnipeg was desperate, right, to just unload Helibuck. So that's like a three-tiered approach. And then while you're doing that, and I think this is where a Spetsa can come in.

and along with other people that are holdovers on the staff, you're figuring out what your options are for Macau Granlin. You know, maybe they like him, this new regime. Maybe Mike Sullivan looks at him as like, look, he was miscast in the role we brought him in at, but, you know, in a different role, say if Jason Spence is not coming back, maybe McHale Granlin becomes a winger in the top six, and then it's a different conversation, right? I think you're figuring out about Grandland.

You're figuring out about Petrie, I would imagine. And that's not a knock on Petri as much as he's a big ticket player. Dubus may have a different assessment of him than the previous regime did. Dubus may like him better, you know. Dubus may view this as like defensemen sometimes struggle in their first year in a new system. And I like what Petrie bring. I mean, I think there's all these valuations. But primarily you start with goaltender because that's the most important position you have to address.

And also, it's the toughest to evaluate. Yeah. He's alluded to this, Hunter, right? Like, um, very volatile. Yeah. It's, it's, I look at goaltending as a Molotov cocktail, you know, like, and just look at the Stanley Cup final. I mean, neither of the goalies who both played superbly for their team to get them to the final, we're starters going into the Stanley Cup playoffs.

And how many times, quite frankly, in the past five years, yes, you see Vasilesky, who I think still the best goalie in the game. And you see Kerry Price his last healthy year getting to Canadians. But you also see a lot of different guys taking their team on deep playoff runs. And I think it's the hardest part of management right now is trying to evaluate that position because I can totally get behind the argument if you have a stud, you pay him. And I could totally get behind the premise that if there's a stud available,

that would more singularly help the penguins than anything. But we aren't in an era where there are many studs. And you can put yourself into jeopardy by committing too much capital to that position for somebody to just fall apart. Yeah, I mean, that's very true. And I've been saying this for a while. They need to get at least average goaltening in the playoffs, and they haven't gotten that for a very long time,

which is especially annoying. Also, Rob, I did say you said if Granlin could play in the top six, which, you know, I know that's very hypothetical. God help us all. It would be funny if Jason, you said Jason Spets would play up there. Oh, Jason, yeah, Jason Zucer, sorry. Maybe Spets will, you know, maybe he'll help the power play. Yeah, Ferdy and Slip.

I had to make a joke about that. But no, I mean, Jason, I saw, speaking of Zucker real quick here, I saw Jesse Marshall posted on Twitter. He looks at the evolving wild, evolving hockey projections, but the evolving wild twins are awesome. And they have been projected five years times 5.1. And then for Pittsburgh, five years times 4.8. Rob, their projections are usually really good. Yeah. But that's, I think, too steep for Kyle to really go after, right?

And speaking of, has he really engaged Zucker's agent? Because he doesn't really ask that during the press conference. And I'm just curious to see how high up the priority list he is, considering you have 27 goals this year. Yeah. I don't know if they've engaged. My suspicion was that those type of conversations were going to start happening towards the end of this week and into next week.

Dubis has been trying to find a house. an area to live. I mean, like, there's real life things he's been doing. He just got an honorary doctorate from Brock University yesterday. I think that stuff sort of, you know, he's probably placing a call, but that stuff will heat up pretty quickly here. You know, if you could get Zucker at $4.8 million, I'd do it tomorrow, but not for five years. I just, I can't commit to that, especially given his injury history. I mean, his one healthy season in Pittsburgh was last year and he was fantastic.

I think they should look to retain him. I'd be willing to pay him five, five on a shorter deal, you know, maybe three years or something. I think he's that valuable to them. But I'm also of the opinion that even if you say, even if you retain Zucker, between Gensel, Raquel, and Rust. You have to at least explore what each one of them

could bring you back. If they approved the trade, Russ and Raquel both have options in that regard. Gensel's going into the last year of his contract. I think if you're going to make this team deeper, which, well, the teams that made the Stanley Cup final had depth.

If you're going to do that, you're going to have to make a tough decision somewhere else. And I think having four grade A or at least grade B plus overall wingers for your top two centers, it's probably a luxury compared to what your needs are in the bottom six. and that that will be a very difficult decision. And there's political parts of this. I mean, neither Crosby nor Malkin would want Rust or Gensel gone. Rust just signed a new deal that generally doesn't send a great message if you sign a guy to a long-term deal and then trade him after a first year. He has, in his first three years of his deal has, you know, a trade clause.

I think would probably bring you back a lot, but maybe Raquel would bring you back even more in terms of the number of assets because he's got a better contract situation. So I think they have to at least explore that. And again, I think those are decisions that they're making now and then seeing if they can move on them. Yeah. And of those three that you mentioned, I do think Russ is probably the way to go. but as you said, it's tough because he has the full no move clause right now. Only you're one of this new contract.

How do you sell that? I mean, he would probably, he would definitely be really gutted if he just went to him and asked him about that. But I think that's also just the nature of business in the NHL. Gensel, make $6 million for this season. I said on my show about a week and a half ago, Rob, after I saw the Cole Calfield extension, he's probably going to ask for over $8 million per season. I think he's worth that.

I think they're going to maybe look at an extension. but I've seen people say that you could trade him. I personally would like to keep him for this season because there's not a better winger on this team and I don't think there's another one that's going to score you 40 goals or at least 40. I know he didn't have 40 this year, but I think he is a prime candidate to score 40 again next season. That will be interesting.

Moving on just a little bit to Mike Sullivan. And I know Mike Sullivan and Ron Hextall, they never saw eye to eye. I mean, you wrote for the athletic problem. he wanted them to go get Jacob Trickren, but Ron Hextall didn't want to part with just draft picks. And that was he went for a very low price, let's be real. He went for just a bunch of magic beans. I think Arizona overplayed their hand.

And, well, voila. When it comes to Mike Sullivan and Kyle Dubis, how much of a say do you think Sullivan is going to have in decisions for this roster? Well, it's going to be part of the conversation. He's probably going to be the most. his weight will be the heaviest other than Dubus. You know, talking to people who were part of this process, Dubus was very excited to work with Sullivan,

very comfortable with Sullivan's, you know, position and influence in the organization. He really looks at Sullivan as a partner. And I don't know why he wouldn't do this. hyper-intelligent guy. So is Sullivan. They're both excellent communicators. Dubis seems to want to build the type of teams that Sullivan likes to coach.

So I, I, you know, there was a lot of speculation about, you know, would any GM look at Sullivan in his contract and his closeness to, you know, the Fenway group ownership as,

as a liability. I look, maybe I don't know, but as I reported this week, you know, Fenway just paid Kyle Dubus five million a year for seven years and gave them use of the company jet. So any questions about them having issues with either their GM or their coach should be answered. They like them both. But, you know, I've always felt it's not a bad thing if you have a little bit of differing opinion or push, give and take when it comes to a country. coach and GM on decisions.

What you can't have is what they had with Sullivan and Hextall, which was no communication. We don't really know how much they saw eye to eye because they, Hextel just didn't communicate with Sullivan. And towards the end, there was a lot of estrangement. But I, I, Sullivan's got to coach this team. So he has to, he has to have a seat at the table. And Dubus has to be able to say, look, at the end of the day, this is my call. And I think importantly, what Dubus has to communicate, and I don't think this is something

Jim Rutherford did very well, which is when I get a player, my expectation is this is how he's going to be used. So we're going to try him there until he proves he doesn't fit. It doesn't necessarily mean playing him with a specific line, but in a specific role. Yeah, that would make sense. And, yeah, and Jim Rutherford, yeah, he would sometimes acquire. players and Mike Sullivan just not use them. For big example is Ryan Reeves.

I mean, he was down even there for a full season before Ruther out and shipping out because it looked like Mike Sullivan was not going to use him in the playoffs. But I'm excited for their working relationship. I think with their philosophies to how to build a roster, I think they align pretty well. And Dubas is a young enough guy where I think he's going to come, he's going to get players that fit his system.

And he's great at getting cheap quality, depth and free agency. I think that's honestly one of the big things. he's going to go after in free agency is some cheap bottom six players who can go in there, score you 10, 15 goals, something like that. But that wraps up.

Which is really what they need more than anything. I agree. In addition to goaltending certainty, I mean, we forget because it was in real-time Hunter just how an F their bottom six was at providing any type of lot, especially their third line. Especially their third line.

I mean, it's ultimately what did them in. Oh, no, it was terrible. I mean, and they kept trying so many different combinations. I mean, Brock McGinn, you know, he's not here anymore, but he didn't really do much because it's very captain. Great that he played well in St. Louis, but I don't think that's going to last going into next season. You know, Teddy Bluger, all these other guys. It's just the mix wasn't right. And I think Dubis, with his track record in Toronto, he knows how to build good bottom sixes.

And I trust him to do that here as well. But that would do it for the second segment. coming up in the final segment for the show we're going to get into, does this team potentially need another legit star player to contend, all that plus a lot more coming up. But before we get to that, we do have to discuss one of the newest sponsors of Lockdown, which is bird dogs, which are very comfortable shorts. One, they make you look good.

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I am your host, Hunter Hodes. Follow me on Twitter, Hunter Hodes, follow the shows, Twitter, and Lorster Penguins. Of course, I have Rob Rossi from the athletic here. Rob, another thing I've wondered this offseason is, obviously, if they don't bring Jason Zucker back, they'll have to replace him. But even if they do, do you think they need a true? another big star to contend this long season because that was a big thing I noticed during Kyle Dubas's introductory press conference where he kind of hinted that he might go make a splash

for the score who can play on the first line or the second line. I think that's obviously a big one is if Zulker doesn't come back. But do you think they need another star winger or another star center to contend? No, I do not. I think they have enough star power up front. I think what they would need is better players in the bottom six. Now, I think they could use a star either in goal. And I don't know how you assess who is because it's such a, but the other area I think is, you know, I was in favor of when I heard about the chicken possible acquisition

and reported about it in the athletic, I was for it because I thought if you could lock down a one a defenseman to play with Chris LaTang that deepened your defense in a way so much and gave you that that bona fide number one pairing that it's rare that you don't see teams solid with a number one pairing

that go far in the playoffs like it's hard to do without that and um you know I think you would get the best version of Chris if you paired him with a guy like a chicken. But if there's a guy available out there to either be Chris's partner or be like your second, you know, your number two defenseman as anchoring your second pairing, I think that makes your defense so much better. And I think part of their struggles last year on the back end were due to P.O. Joseph

not being physically ready to play a full season. the injuries that force them to play depth guys way too much and out of position or up in the lineup, Petrie's injuries and, you know, struggles early. And the tag just having a year from hell. So, you know, as lucky as they were up front with the injuries this year, they were, I want to say as as unlucky in the back, but that back. and dealt with a lot. So if he could get a star

or even a elite defenseman to be, yes, I would do that. Now, I'm not saying that's the way he's thinking. But I think they have enough star power up front to get them going.

Now, that said, you know, I wouldn't turn, I'm just I wouldn't turn an Austin Matthews down, but I don't think that's a realistic thing. But, you know, I think, too, there's a danger in adding too many stars. I think you saw that with the New York Rangers this year. There's only one puck. So, yeah, that's kind of where I stand on that.

Yeah, I mean, and obviously for the bottom sakes, I do think they need another third-line center in general. you can't run into the season with Ryan Pailing and Jeff Carter is your two centers. That's just not. You need to find one either via trade or even if I want to be a free agency. I assume, Rob, I've said this a lot of times on the show throughout the last couple months. Brian Dumlin is likely not coming back to the team in a couple weeks from free agency. And that would open up a spot, Rob, to play with Crystal Tame, because that was his preferred partner over the years.

And the more I think about it, the more a replacement for, Duma will come in via trade. You look at the free agent market. It's not that good right now. You have to go Orloff and, you know, I think it was Frank on daily face off. He said he may be looking for $8 million per season. No thanks. You always overpay to a detriment for defensemen on the open market.

And when the penguins have gone to the open market, they had to do it for defensemen. It's just, it's such a premium position and such an important position. Five years for Jack Johnson. Right. Yeah. And especially if you're looking for a right shot defenseman. You know, I mean, the singular reason Chris LaTang got a longer deal than if getting Malkin, they're only a year apart. Malkin got four years. Chris got six. Why? Because the Penguins had to do that to keep Chris's number where it was. They had the extra term because if Chris had gone to the open market, whatever people in Pittsburgh think of them, you were looking at an extraordinary contract.

even for a player of his age because he's a right defenseman that still plays number one minutes. Those are gold in this league. So, yeah, I would think he'd be looking. And that's where the penguins, you know, maybe that's where the first round pick comes into play as part of a package that does that. I'd be fine with that. If you can pick and get an actual good player in return, I would do that, yes. Yes. So I think that pick could be used one of two ways.

It could be used as a way to get rid of a bad contract that gives you more cap space where maybe that gives you an opportunity to do something else to add players via trade or on the market. Or that becomes part of something that you have to package to get that type of defense. Now, the problem penguins are going to run into is they don't have a lot of assets other than that number one pick to do that type of a deal. And let's face it, if a type of player like that becomes available via trade, it's not like just the penguins are going to be looking at that player. Yeah, I mean, no, you make a good point on that.

You know, they will not be the only team in on a lot of some of these top trade targets. I mean, I throw in a few out there for partners for Chris saying, like Matt Griswick, Noah Hannathan. I mean, Hannathan is going to be targeted. I think by probably half the league. He's that good. But I do think that is one of their biggest needs heading into the season is getting a new partner, a shoot number one left shot defenseman.

Because I don't, no disrespect to Marcus Pedersen. I love the guy. I don't know if he can play top pair of minutes for 82 games. And I think you're a better team if he is sort of your anchor on a second pairing. I think he's evolved to that point. He's shown that, you know. He can be your number four, but he's sort of your foundational piece on that second pairing.

Yeah. And whether he plays with Jeff Petrie, if he's still here or someone else, he can anchor that pairing very efficiently. Last thing wrong before I let you go, do you think Dubus can do enough this offseason to, A, get this team back into the playoffs and B, make them potentially a contender going into next season?

I don't want to limit them to the offseason for that. I think he'll do enough offseason to make changes that there'll be a better team going into next season than they were at the end of last season. I want to give him at least through the trade deadline, or at least up until the trade deadline, I should say, and then see how that plays out. But I think this is going to be a pro.

process that that that is starting now and will go into the season in terms of how it affects this team. I think primarily, and I think when you're looking at hires to get back to the conversation we had in the first segment, I would imagine if they bring in another assistant GM, that GM's focus is going to be very much on the other part of Dubus's job, which is, as he said making sure that transition between the end of this era and into the next era isn't they're not down for too long. I think most of Dubus's efforts, you know, 95% for the next year go into the current group while keeping an eye on that other stuff, but laying the foundation for that.

But I don't think Penguin fans should freak out if they go into the season where he's just made some perceived minor moves because, hey, like you said, Hunter, he's done a really good job of bringing in depth players that can produce, right? And those aren't always the sexiest signings, right? If anything, sometimes those signings get critical because you're like looking at a flat cap and like, is this really worth it? I think he'll do that. I think he'll try to work on something significant. Maybe he can't get that done for going into the season. I think another benefit is I think if you go into the season without having done something dramatic this summer, that lets some of your other guys get a chance to build some momentum. So maybe they have more value in season if you want to make a move.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I do think they'll potentially have more assets maybe around the trade deadline to make a move, especially with, you know, the four quartet of picks almost and, you know, some prospects from this. drafts and prospects from the last draft. I think, some roster players, I think they will have, you know, pieces to make, you know, big move potentially if they want to. But, you know, Rob, I really appreciate you taking the time to come on Thursday's episode of this podcast. Just, obviously, your Twitter is right down there at Real underscore Rob Rossi for those

watching on YouTube for audio. It's right there for you all to hear. Rob, what's coming up next for The Athletic for article? Speaking for Josh and I were hoping to get a little bit of quiet time this week and then get going next week, to be honest. You know, personally, I spent a long time working on that story. Josh and I wrote about the chaos. I've been working on that for really since before the trade deadline. That's still up if you want to check it out.

I just had a story this week on how the dubious thing came together. I think, you know. That pizza place sounded good. I'm not to go to the one around near where I live. There's one in Mount Lebanon. So a shoutout. Il Piziola is, we used to say in my childhood days, the bomb, to date myself. But I would, look, I think starting as soon as this weekend, you're going to start seeing us, you know, turn our attention to sort of trying to keep people updated and what we're hearing about, you know, penguin moves.

I'm expecting it to be busy, too. I'm expecting, like, if there is a buyout decision, I think that's going to happen relatively soon. I could see a situation where the goaltending decision plays itself out over the next two weeks. So there's going to be a combination of stuff we're digging for and stuff we have to sort of put into perspective. But I think it's going to be an exciting couple of weeks leading into the draft

for Penguin fans. And look, I think, too, if nothing else, Dubus has energized this thing, right? Whatever people think of the higher, there was no energy with the last regime towards the end. So I think this will be an exciting time for fans and for people that cover the team. And we're going to get an early look at what Kyle Dubus really thinks of this roster.

Yeah. I mean, I'm really curious to see if he does anything at the draft, big trade-wise, for agencies, he's on a Saturday this year. I have off that day for my full-time job, which is perfect. So I'm just going to be doing a bunch of content that day. But we're going to find all this out relatively soon.

And yet the buyout period for everyone remembers, it opens. Well, technically, I guess it should open late tonight because it would be 48 hours after the cop, but they're just going to say Friday because it's easier. But that will run for two weeks, Rob. So they'll have the decision on Michael Granlin.

If they can't find a trade partner, you know, there's people, They're not going to buy out Jeff Carter because that cap hit will just stay no matter what. Well, they can't. They can't buy out Carter because it's a 35 plus contract. So the two buyout candidates are really Granlin and Petrie. And, you know, Grandin would make the most sense.

The Petrie one is nuts because it's like $10 million for four years. I don't think they want to do that. Yeah. Yeah. The Grandin one, what I do think they're going to very much consider if they can. Because it gives them $7 million in cap space overall these next two seasons, $4 million. Right. I think they prefer not to do that.

I think as an organization, they just don't like doing that, but they may not have a choice on this. And look, I don't pretend to know Mikhail well. I didn't get to know him that well during his months here. I do suspect it would be better for him. He's always going to be linked to the Hextall era. And I think it would be better for him to go to a place where he's a better fit.

Yeah. But I never, I just want to be clear on McHale. I hope people don't, you know, even if he stays around, like he deserves a fair chance. That was a really tough situation

he was put into last year. Yeah, I mean, I mean, obviously I wasn't a fan of his game. One garbage time goal in 20 plus games, but, you know, maybe,

I mean, if he does stay around and they get him some help, maybe it works out. No, I'm still a little, you know, suspicious of it,

but we'll have to see. James Neal had two goals as, before his breakout season after the trade. Now different situation, he was younger and different type of player. But sometimes players have a hard time with that late season trade to adjust. It's one of the reasons Jim Rutherford always liked to make moves early, as opposed to at the deadline, to give that player more time.

That makes a lot of sense. And you always saw players, you know, get more comfortable the earlier Rutherford did make the moves, even though some were good, but some are bad. But that will do it for this episode, the Locktime Penguins podcast. I really appreciate you coming on. We'll look forward to your coverage along with Josh for the next couple of weeks as it's going to get pretty crazy. For Friday show, I'm going to have Nick Berlanski and Nek Corwood on from the tip of the

Iceberg podcast. I haven't had them on in a while, but they do great work there as well. You guys all get along in podcast world. Why can't people in Pittsburgh with Pittsburgh websites be like that? I know. I know. There are a lot of great podcast here. I know I took my own horn, but the Nick and Nick showed.

They do a great job. Yeah, you guys are all really good. There's a lot, Penguin fans are lucky for all the podcast content out there. They really are. I appreciate it. There's them. There's countless others that I can shout out right now. I know Danny and Taylor do a great podcast themselves.

And no issue with them. Yeah, no. The Penguins Collective One is also very good. Jeff, Jeff Taylor's podcast is awesome. But yeah, I really like the community that we have here. But again, that would do it for this one. Thank you so much for listening. I'll see you all on Friday.