Locked On Penguins - Daily Podcast On The Pittsburgh Penguins - Don't hate the player, hate the poor asset management.

Episode Date: August 25, 2020

An unexpected trade occurred today with the Pittsburgh Penguins and Hunter is here to break it all down on Locked On Penguins. He touches on Kasperi Kapanen and why he's not a bad player to add back to the team, but at that cost? Hunter also ponders what the Penguins actually could've gotten back for the 15th overall pick and Filip Hallander if they had actually used it right. Plus, is it time for Jim Rutherford to potentially step down? It's been a few years of just mostly bad acquisitions and just winging it without any true plan and Hunter dives into that as well. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello, welcome to this Tuesday afternoon episode of the Locked-on Penguins podcast. I'm your host, Hunter Hodes. Follow me on Twitter at Hunter Hodes. Follow the show's Twitter at L-O-U-U-U-Square Penguins. So, yeah, I did not think we were going to have a trade to talk about on today's episode. I was honestly kind of struggling of what to talk about going into today since I got all the big college free agent signing, and then we went around the horn with the playoffs. But, yes, the Penguins did make a big trade earlier this morning with the Kasperi-Captan trade

and a whole bunch else. we're going to get into it right now. My overall thoughts on it, just a really bad trade. I don't know what Jim Rutherford is thinking. And let's just, let's go at this in parts. You know, we'll go at this in parts. Let's start with Kisbury, Capon. I think Caponinan is a good player.

I know the underlying numbers are not kind to him in three, I think, with three of his last four seasons. I know he was a very above average in 2018, 19, where I think he was a 20 goal score last season. I think he had 13 goals for Toronto before the pause hit. And the Leaks were looking to deal him because they were looking to said Sattery cap space. But I do think in Capitan is better than what some people are saying, better than what some of the underlying numbers are saying about him. But you just, you cannot

trade that number 15th overall pick in one of your toss prospects in Philip Hollander for him. That's just awful asset management. And I mean, like, what does it really address? It just puts another wing onto this team. I mean, I guess we all know now that Connor Sherry is going to walk. Are they going to put Kasperi Captain next to Sidney Crosby and Jake Gensel? I guess. I mean, if you look at Jim Rutherford's statement, they think that he can come in and play top six minutes. I think you're asking for failure there.

If you think he can play top six minutes, he's just not the kind of player you need to be playing on your top line. I know we had a 20-goal season, but the chances of him repeating that, even on a Sydney Crosby and Jake Gensel line, I just don't think it's that high. And the thing is, you know, I don't mind going after a player like Gispera Kappen.

Obviously, you needed to make chance. You needed to get some forwards out. But paying that kind of price to get him just makes no sense at all. And then it really just makes the Dominic Cahoon trade look really, really poor, too. Because Cahoon, I think he had 12 goals this season overall, even after going to Buffalo. And now Conor Sherry, he's going to walk. So you basically traded Dominic Cahoon for nothing. And now you're getting someone in Casperi Cappan who had one more goal than Dominic Cajun,

and he actually brought back two players. Oh, and by the way, you sent Evan Rodriguez to Toronto for reasons that I have no idea why. We're going to get to that in a second. But it's just, it's a very, very weird trade. And, you know, I kind of echo what Adam Gretz said, who is just a outstanding writer does stuff for Pensburg and NH on NBC. You know, he basically says, I don't have a problem with adding a player like Capon, but this just seems like a very weird trade and a lot to give up for a guy that doesn't address your biggest need. It looked like at a time, David Pagnano tweeted out that he was hearing that Jack Johns was going the other way, that sent Penguins Twitter up in a frenzy because

that would have been peaked Jim Rutherford. with the way he was basically talking up Jack Johnson so much and then was potentially going to include him in this deal. Back to Not Hopin, the tweet was deleted, I think, just a couple minutes later. Pagnada actually said that he jumped the gun a little too early with it. But still, like Adam said, this trade does just, it is getting capped and does nothing to address your biggest need. You have to get Jack Johnson off this team. Yes, you're going to trade a goaltender.

We talked about that yesterday on this podcast. Yes, you're probably going to trade Nick Bukstad. But also, guys, this adds salary to the Penguins. The Evan Rodriguez was not really making much against the salary cap. I know he was going to be an RFA going into next season. But like, like you said, this just adds salary. So like, like, I said, we know a goalie. Obviously, like I said, we know a goalie.

You're going to have to move Nick Bukestat. And are you going to have to move Patrick Hornquist now? We were talking about that with Josh Joey last week. Makes over $5 million against the cap. He's getting older. I know he was rejuvenated last season. But can you justify him making, what, 5.3 million per for the next three to four seasons? I don't know if you can, especially if you want to shed salary, like the Penguins' ownership,

has said they wanted to to Rob Rossi and Josh Yoey of the athletic. And so it's just very, very odd. And, you know, there's things that you trade the number 15th overall pick for, you know, a top six winger, a bona fide top six winger, not someone like Casperi Capitan who is a third liner on those contending teams. You also could trade it for a top four defenseman, someone that can come in and help right now. Well, you all know Jack Johnson is just not getting the job. on the bottom parry. In a perfect role, you can honestly send Marcus Pedersen down to the bottom pairing

and maybe have a top four defenseman coming in play with John Marino. That would be in a perfect role, but of course, there's a salary cap and the penguins are looking to shed salary, so that's just not going to happen. I mean, I would absolutely love it if it did, but it's just not going to happen. Those are the kind of players that you give up the number 15th overall pick for and a top prospect. Not someone like Kisbury Capitan who just is really not going to move the needle that much, even though I don't think he's like a bad player, I think he's better than some of his

underlying numbers have said that he is. But it's just like, I mean, you could have gotten Kasperi Kappan in for so much less. You didn't need to attach your first round pick, which was, oh yeah, a top 15 pick. You haven't had a top 15 pick in, what, eight years since they selected Derek Pooleyot up in 2012. And you're going to attach that to get a player like Kisbury Kappan and Philip Hollander, who was one of the organization's top forward prospects, one of their top prospects overall. It's just, it's bad asset management. And we've been seeing this time and time again.

from Jim Rutherford the past three years. I know he had the two Stanley Cup runs where he was just making great move after great move after great move. 2017, 18, you know, I kind of gave him a pass. You know, the team was gased that season, even though the Ryan Reeves trade happened. The Derek Brouss trade, I thought was fine.

But, you know, ever since then, it's just been mostly a tire fire from him. And we're going to get into Jim Rutherford a lot in the next segment here and why it might be honestly time for him to just walk out and just resign, but it's just, it's not looking pretty for him right now. And I know, like, I did say on my Twitter, I really wish they didn't deal this first round pick.

I know some people are going to come after me about that saying, well, you know, they traded a lot of first round picks in the past. Who really gives you shit, Hunter? You know, they're trying to get Sidney Crosby and Guinea-Malk in another Stanley Cup just to cash in on their window. And yeah, I get that. Trust me. I usually don't give a shit when they trade their first round picks. I'm not one of those people that. It's like, oh, yeah, hoho, the future.

But, you know, when you have a top 15 pick and you could potentially get a player in a very deep draft, that could be really, really good, especially as Sidney Crosby and McGinie Malkin are getting older. I just feel like you have to do it. And I just, I really wish they wouldn't have traded this pick. And now they're not going to have a first round pick in next year's draft because they have to send that one to Minnesota.

So unless they can recoup a first round pick in the draft back for, who knows, Matt Murray or Tristanjory or somehow Nick Bukstad or Patrick Hornquist, who knows at this point? They're not going to have a first round pick until 2022. So, you know, that's just great asset management there. again from Jim Rutherford. He truly just does not get it. And where do I think Capman will play in the lineup?

I was touching on this a little bit earlier in the episode. I got to think they're going to try him on Crosby's line. Yeah, that's really the only way I think that's going to justify this trade. Remember, Jim Rutherford said, yeah, we see him as a top six winger. We drafted him even though we do traded him, so we know what his ceiling is. It's just going to be that typical Rutherford BS. So, yeah, I got to think, guys, it's going to go Gensel Crosby, Capon. I would just wouldn't, I would put money on that, honestly, especially as it looks like Connor

Sherry is going to walk, I think at this point, especially after trading for it happening, I would be pretty surprised if Sherry came back. And then the second line is going to be Zucker, Malk, and Russ. They're just going to carry that line over from the playoffs, which I thought it was a pretty good line, even though Gennie Malkin just seemed to be lost in the playoffs. I think, of course, he was doing with that elbow injury. So, yeah, those are most of my thoughts on the trade. I'm going to dive into Evan Rodriguez a little bit more in the next segment, and also in the

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And, you know, I touched on it earlier on in this episode as well. I'm going to sound like a broken record saying that all the time. But, you know, 2015, 16, 2016, 17, he was rock-solved. Top GM in hockey, I think, making shrewd moves, just absolutely outstanding moves. 2017-18, like I said, gave him a pass. You know what, team was gasped. I know they had the Ryan Reeves trade that may have the Derek Brassar trade in Matt Hunwick and Antimmy. You know what? I gave him a pass for that year.

You know what? Whatever. But, you know, right after that, the Jack Johnson signing. You know, we all know how bad of a tire fire that's been. They got Alex Gow Chunk in the Phil Kessel trade. He was just absolutely awful. Tanner Pearson, that ended up working out really bad, and now Tanner Pearson's killing it with Vancouver in their top six.

For some reason, he wanted to go out and get Eric Good Brands and it'd be tougher to play against. And oh, yeah, he shipped back Jamie Alexiak, basically in the process because he lost a fight to Tom Wilson, and Jamie Alexiak has been really, really, really good since going back to Dallas. I think he's been playing in their top four. Yeah, that first round pick for Ryan Reeves. I know we already talked about that.

kind of gave him a free pass. You know, the Riley Cheyenne thing. He was just not that good. Dominic Cahoon for Olimata, that was fine at the time. But then when you trade Dominic Cahoon away and get Conor Sherry back in Evan Rodriguez, and now they're not even on three of them are not even there anymore. So that one is just looking really, really bad right now, especially with Sherry going to walk in Rodriguez. Let's just get in Evan Rodriguez right now. They really didn't like get to have a long good look at him.

And he really only played a few games during the season before the season was pause and I honestly thought Rodriguez looked pretty good. I thought he had a nice shot. I think he scored in that game against the Devils, the final game they won before the pause. Thought he was quick. He could get to Pox. He was good in his defensive zone. He was an RFA going into this season. I thought he was definitely going to be re-signed. So it just seems really, really, really weird that they decided to give up on him that quick. They just didn't get to have a long look at him that I think he definitely needed. And then, you know, you have the Derek Grant train. I mean, that was just absolutely awful too.

And it's just like, it's just this trend now that every one of these trades almost has just been absolutely awful in the signings. And it's just, Jim, man, like, these are the kind of moves that get you fired. You know, I said this last week with Jack Johnson with his negligence about that. And now this is well. This is the kind of stuff over a couple years span that gets you fired, especially if the team is not good next season. And they're just like hovering around the eighth or ninth spot in the east. I don't think that's going to be the case, considering Sidney Crosby is still playing at a high level. I think of Gany Malkin is going to bounce back again next season, especially after he played very, very poorly in the playoffs.

They still have Chris Latang and Brian Dumlin. They'll still have Tristan Jari, I think, assuming they don't trade him, which I'm not really sure I trust Jim Rutherford to not trade him at this point, especially because his trades lately have just been bad. But it's just, he has no, Jim Rutherford just has no direction at this point. He's actively closing the Penguins window with these kind of moves by dealing up. a first round pick in Philip Hollander just to get Casbury Cappan back who's just a middle bottom six winger and now they're going to put them on the top line. And just like

I said, the Jamie Alexiak trade, the Eric Good Branson trade, the Tanner Pearson for Carl Hagland trade, getting Alex Gow-Chaynuck back for Phil Kessel, you could have gotten a lot more back for Phil Kessel. Riley Shane, Derek Brassard. And honestly, I would make that Brassard trade 10 times out of 10 again. I mean,

I don't think anyone saw just how bad Bersar was going to be. Derek Grant, I mean, now the Cahoon trade just looks awful. It's just, it's a, it's really, really bad right now for Jim Rutherford. And it's just, you know, I'm just very, very scared of what else is going to happen this offseason. I just, I don't, I don't trust him. I don't think anyone can trust him at this point. And I know you're going to hear from like some of the people in the media saying, oh yeah, the guy brought you to Stanley Cubs. How could you criticize him? Those people are shills people. You know, it's just PR talk. Don't bother to

those people. It's just, it's not worth it, guys. Just ignore them, block them. I'm not going to name names on this podcast. You know, there's a couple out there that are just really, really bad, and they just, you know, they talk up the talk from the Penguins' PR, and they just want to just rile people up and think Jim Rutherford is the king of the world or something like that. I have no idea. But yeah, it's just a very bad trend right now, I think, for GMJR. I think, I will say, though, I mean, at least they didn't do like, you know, the tough to play nonsense or anything like that. They went out and got a player in Capitan who is fast and skilled. But still, you know, even with that, it's still a pretty shitty trade just because of the asset management and just giving up way too much to get in.

And, you know, it's just, that's just been the theme of Jim Rutherford's trades. And I saw the perfect tweet right when this trade was coming out. And it comes from Eric from Penguins, Twitter, E Manatee. Basically, this is most of GMJR trades over this tenure. Will this player help? Yes, probably. But for that cost, that's a yikes. I mean, I don't think I've ever heard more of a true statement for basically all of Jim Rutherford's trades.

well, maybe about 90 to 95% of him over his tenure. Yeah, will this player help? Yeah, probably. He's a good, fast, skilled winger can play in your bottom six. You don't want to really put them on your top line, but they're going to do that just to try to justify the trade. But for that cost, nope, that's not what I would do. That's for sure.

That's just the perfect analogy, I think, for a lot of Jim Rutherford's trades. And now, guys, I'm honestly just waiting for Jim after this trade because, of course, I'm just losing confidence in him day by day now to trade Brian Russ for like Max Domey or something because Mario loves Tideomy and there's just so much family history there. So that they're going to try to go get Max Domi to try to get his game back on track in quotation marks, of course, and then send out Brian Russ who was going to be a 30 goal score this past season. Hell, he was honestly on pace for over 40 goals when the season paused. So yeah, can't wait for that trade, guys.

And again, he just, Jim just does not understand, I really just don't think he gets that there's so many more bigger needs on this team, now and just bigger gaps than just going out and getting a player like Casbury captain. Yes, we all know they were going to make changes going into this off season. That was a given, especially with the way they bowed out against Montreal. They looked lifeless in that game four. But you have a train wreck of a third pairing that needs to be addressed. Justin Choles is going to walk. Jack Johnson still needs out.

You need to go address that. And just this trade just does not do a lot for my confidence in the rest of the offseason. And yeah, it's definitely freaking scary. But, you know, here's hoping that Jim Rutherford somehow wakes up from his slumber and just actually starts making some semi-adiquate moves this off season, you know, like getting something back for Matt Murray or getting rid of the black hole that is Jack John said Patrick Hornquist could probably get you a bunch in return as well. Because, I mean, they are going to have to dump salary, especially if that report from Josh Yowie and Rob Rossi was true. Because, I mean, they added salary here. So, I mean, who's on their way out? So that that's just also one of my biggest questions.

I don't really care. Who else in that trade was given up? I mean, David Worsowski is just, that's a name. He's been in this organization twice. I know the team is getting Pontus Aberg back in the trade. I think he made Oli Mada look really, really bad in that 2017 Semicup final against Nashville. I think it was in game one. I'd have to remember which game was, but he made Mata look really bad in game one or game two of it.

So I'm curious to see where he fits in the lineup. He's just going to be a bottom six-winger or he's just going to be scratched every night. Or he'll be moved in the trade for whoever at this point. But, yeah, Jim Rutherford, man, it's just this is the kind of stuff that gets you fired. It's almost time, I think, for him to go. You know, this is just not very good. I understand that they're trying to make a big run over these next couple of years to get Crosby Malk in that fourth Stanley Cup, which would tie Gretzky and Messier for four.

And we all know how bad they're going to be after they retire. But, you know, you got to have a plan for the future at some point. And by just giving up the 15th pick and one of your top prospects to get a winger, So just kiss carry, kissberry captain. I'll just say it again. Bad asset management. Jim Rutherford is lost. He's been doing this bad asset management shit for the last three years now.

It's just been not very good at all. And it's almost just as if he's just winging it in his deals. Yeah, I'm going to do this. And then the next trade comes up. Yeah, I'll just do that. I'm going to wing it. I'll do that. And then another trade comes up.

Yeah, I'm just going to wing that one too, see how it plays out. And it's just like he doesn't seem like he really thinks about these decisions before he goes into it. It's just, it's not looking good. right now. But I think that's basically all I have to say about Jimroth toford. I don't really think there's anything else needed to be said about that. And now I think it's a good time to talk about some food. Well, kind of, well, DoorDash. Between never-ending laundry cycles and incoming emails, you've got plenty on your to do-list. Give yourself one less thing to worry about and let DoorDash take care of your next meal. DoorDash is the app that brings you food you're craving right now

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Don't forget, folks, that's code Locked on NHL with DoorDash. All right, so we're back here on this episode of Locked On Penguins, We're just going to go a couple more minutes now, and then we're just going to wrap it up. I think I've said most of what I wanted to say on this episode about the trade. And, you know, just going into next season, there is a lot to like about this penguin scene. I mean, the top six is going to be loaded again, even I guess if they do put cap in an out there. You know, they're going to probably have McCann back. I honestly, in the back of my mind during this trade, I'm like, I wonder if they are sending McCann to Toronto in this trade.

And I don't think a lot of people would have hated that. I mean, obviously, it would have been better than trading the first-time-kick in Philip Hollander. But I just, I wouldn't have done it because I think McCann, of course, should be back at the third line center next year with better line mates. You're going to need to find new line mates for him, the fourth line. We already know that. Zach Aston-Ree's Teddy, Blue Graber, and Tanev. You have a rock solid top four. And you just, you still need to answer the biggest questions.

What are you going to do with the third pairing? What are you going to do for your bottom six? And what salary are you going to dump? Because I've said, I'll say it again on this episode. Joshi and Rob Rossi said that they want to dump some more salaries. They have some more room during the season. So what contracts are going to be moved out? You have a lot of options right there that I have said already.

There could be some other names out there that they could move or just players that I guess they could bring in to offset some of the salary that they could be dumping. But yeah, one more time, guys, I'm nervous. I think, I'm sure a lot of you guys are nervous. We do have one question for this podcast. It comes from King Clarkie. What realistic deal can J.R. make this summer to recruit some of this lost faith after that abomination? I mean, honestly, Clarkie, they're going to have to maybe trade Murray and try to get a first-on-pick back in return for him.

I don't think that's going to happen, though, unless you find a team maybe like Calgary or something like that, or a New Jersey, a Chicago that is willing to give up their first-on-pick for a goaltender like Matt Murray just because he has two Stanley Cups on his resume. You never know. GMs love getting a Stanley Cup caliber goaltender who's done it before, who has been really, really good in a couple runs, even though he's just been pretty average. since then. So it could happen. I think that would settle a lot of people down

if he could get that first round pickback. Is it going to happen? Probably not. Or maybe they could get a first round pickback for Patrick Hornquist. Will that happen? Probably not. I don't think you're going to get a first round pickback

for either of those two players. But, you know, he's going to have to come up with something. They just gain salary. They need to dump a lot more salary like Jack Johnson. And yeah, so I'm just, I'm very, very curious to see what else he has up his sleeve while also being very, very nervous. Please do not trade for Max Domey and give up someone like Brian,

freaking Russ in the process. There is no reason to have Max Domi on this team. He's not a fast, skilled player. He's just, he's the kind of that player that is just tough to play against. I really think Max Domey is one of the more overrated players in hockey. But, you know, with Mary Lou Amu and Tideomi being best friends, I could totally seek Jim Rutherford for doing that. But no, let me know what you guys think is going to happen this off season after this move.

Tweet me at Hunter Hodey, tweet the show's Twitter at L0 underscore Penguins. Thank you guys so much for listening to this episode as I broke down the trade and offered my thoughts on it. We're going to have a special guest on the podcast. I think tomorrow to talk about this trade and break it down for you guys in even more depth than I did. So stay tuned for that. I hope you all have a great day. Try not to fight with each other too much on Twitter.com about Jim Rutherford in this trade. You know, just go outside on your deck and have a glass of wine or just have an alcoholic beverage. That's probably honestly what I'm going to do after this. So like I said, thank you guys so much for listening. I always appreciate

you all tuning in this podcast listening to me, rant about this team and why Jim Ruthvenor just not be here potentially anymore. So like I said, thank you guys so much for listening and I will talk to you all tomorrow.