Locked On Penguins - Daily Podcast On The Pittsburgh Penguins - How similar are the Lightning and Penguins back-to-backs?

Episode Date: July 10, 2021

The Lightning have made history! In the first segment, Hunter recaps the Stanley Cup Final and what lessons can be taken from it, especially when it comes to the Pittsburgh Penguins going into next season. Do you actually need elite goaltending? Is the modern NHL going towards all speed and skill for 4 lines? Hunter also discusses Nikita Kucherov's press conference and why there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. We've needed a hockey personality for a long time and we finally got it! After that, there's a special crossover with Adam Denker of Locked On Lightning as the two discuss Tampa's run and how it compares to the Penguins cup runs. What was similar between the two? What was different? Do we deserve another Penguins-Lightning series?Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!BetOnline AGThere is only 1 place that has you covered and 1 place we trust. Betonline.ag! Sign up today for a free account at betonline.ag and use that promocode: LOCKEDON for your 50% welcome bonus.Built BarBuilt Bar is a protein bar that tastes like a candy bar. Go to builtbar.com and use promo code “LOCKED15,” and you’ll get 15% off your next order.Rock AutoAmazing selection. Reliably low prices. All the parts your car will ever need. Visit RockAuto.com and tell them Locked On sent you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Your Locked-on Penguins. Your daily podcast on the Pittsburgh Penguins. Part of the Locked-on Podcast Network. Your team every day. Hello, everyone and welcome to this Friday evening episode of the Locked-on Penguins podcast. I'm your host, Hunter Hodes. I'm going to follow me on Twitter at Hunter Hodes. Follow the show's Twitter at L.O. underscore Penguin.

Today's episode is brought to you by Spotify Green Room, a demo about happen, join me this week, hopefully going to do something this weekend. I'll maybe some expansion or trade stuff to get in on the action. So we are back today with a very special episode of the podcast. In the first segment, we're going to be talking about the Stanley Cup final. A couple of things to take away from that. And in the next two segments, it's actually a little special crossover with Adam Denker of Locked on Lightning.

So we just basically recorded this earlier today, talked about lightnings back-to-back, you know, how it was similar to the Penguins. hopefully kind of previewed if maybe both of these teams could play again next season, how that would go. But we maybe just talked about, you know, just how these back-to-back runs came to be. And if there were any big similarities or differences to them, in my opinion, there are definitely a lot of similarities between the Penguins and the Lightning back-to-backs, especially this year. You know, I think the Lightning's Cup run this year reminding me a lot of the Penguins won in 2017.

And I talked about that in that interview with Adam. But to start off, you know, congratulations to the Lightning. you know, as one back-to-back champ to another. It is very hard. They absolutely crushed the Canadians in five games in a series that was not really close. I mean, let's just face it with that. I mean, the Canadians really did not have a prayer at all in this series. I mean, they definitely got, I think, lucky to win Game 4.

I mean, Tampa Bay took it to them in Game 4, but Montreal was able to get some big goals and big moments and then have an overtime winner. That was just awesome. When it comes to Josh Anderson, I mean, that was one hell of an individual effort. but for game five. The lightning just completely shut down the Canadians. And again, you know, I talked about this on the Upper Bowl GM podcast with Nick the other day.

This is the great thing about and a thing that I talked about in my interview with Adam coming up in the next two segments. The lightning, it's so similar with the penguins. They can beat you any way you want them to. You know, the penguins can do this too. They can beat you 5, 4. They can beat you 6.5. But they can also beat you 2 to 1. You saw this in the Islanders years, even though the Penguins lost that series,

and I think they definitely should have still won this series if they got better goaltending. They beat the Islanders in a wild five to four game. But then you look at that game in game two, they win that game two to one. You know, it's the same thing with Tampa Bay. They can win those one-nothing grinding out games. They did it against the Islanders. They did it against the Canadians. They can win those five to four, six to five, seven, six, six, six.

Heck, they can even win a nine to eight game against you. And that is why they are just such a tough out, because they can be. you any way you want them to. And they're also, again, they're so deep at forward. I mean, this was the best team in the league throughout this season. I mean, I think, you know, the most valuable player on this lightning team was Andre Vasilevsky. It's so funny.

I even tweeted about this after that game five. I mean, I remember just watching that game one of the Eastern Conference line on 2016, Bishop gets hurt. And I'm like, who in the hell is this guy coming into the game? Because the injury looked bad at the time. And, of course, it was. you know, he didn't, a bishop didn't play again for the rest of the series, but Andre Vasselowski almost will be lightning to that series win against the Penguins.

And I think that's one of the five best teams of the Salter Camp era, that 2016 Penguins team. But I know he was going to be special at that point. I just didn't know that he was going to be that freaking special that he is right now. I mean, he is the most valuable player on that team. And he's also the most important player, I think, on the lightning as well. He's one of, like, I think, one of the only one to two to three goalies that I would actually pay a King's ransom for and actually pay what, you know, he deserves to be paid. You know, Kerry Price, I think he deserves it as well, especially with the playoffs that he's had in the last couple years. And, you know, shout out to Kerry Price.

Those last two games, he gave it all he could for Montreal, but it just wasn't enough as the Canadians just, they couldn't score in that game five. I mean, Tampa Bay shut them down so good. It was one and done, I think, every single time the Canadians came into the zone. And even when the Canadians had a couple decent high danger chances when they did get in, Vasilevsky was right there to shut them down. And again, you know, he is very deserving of the cons. I understand that people wanted to give it to Nikita Kutrov. And I think it's a very similar situation of 2017 with the Penguins because you could have given it to Crosby or Malkin.

They are both approaching 30 points, both playing their best hockey of the season at that point. they ultimately gave it to sit, even though he won it the year before. I would not have cared if they had given it to Gino. But then for this year, you could have given it to Kuturov or Vasilevsky, and I wouldn't have cared. I think both were very deserving, especially Vasilevsky, with how he played in the playoffs. And as long as they have him playing like that,

Tampa Bay is going to be a very, very tough out. And, you know, and again, you know, going into next season for the lightning, they will be considerable favorites to potentially three-peat. And the one big thing that is, you know, not on their side, you know, that it was on the penguin's side, was that, you know, they don't have a lot of fatigue. And I understand it may sound weird because they just won two championships in 10 months. But the biggest thing is a lot of their star players have missed a lot of time. Example, you know, Nikita Kuturov. I mean, he hasn't played a lot of hockey in these last 10 months due to that surgery that he had to undergo in the offseason.

And then, of course, missed all 56 games. he's not going to be nearly as fatigated. And as for the Lightning as a whole, they only had to play 56 regular season games. And then, of course, a bunch of playoff games. But it's not as many as the Penguins had to do. And again, a lot of their core pieces are going to be back. They're mainly just losing Blake Coleman, which again, you know, he's going to get a nice contract. Barkley Goodro, maybe Pat Maroon, maybe Tyler Johnson.

But, you know, knowing Julian Brisball with how good of a general manager he is, he can replace those players and potentially just call them up from their farm. I'm sure they have 1,000 Ross Coltons ready to be called up at a given notice. So I actually think they are in much better position to 3P than the Penguins were going into that 2018 season because I think the Penguins were a lot more gassed. I mean, I even read, I think, from the Athletic or a couple other sites that when the Penguins lost to Washington in Game 6, a couple of the players, you could just tell after the game that they were gassed and they kind of felt relieved that this was the end just due to the fact that they had played so much hockey.

over these last three years in comparison to basically every other team. But, you know, with the lightning, this is where the modern NHL is going. You have to have four lines that can score. I mean, your top players are not going to contribute on a nightly basis. You even saw the playoffs. After Scott Mayfield really screwed up Kuterov's ribs, I believe it's been reported that it was a cracked rib that he had. He definitely was not himself.

I know Braden Point kind of went a little cold in the San Lika final. But again, you know, in those last two games, when the lightning were up 3-0, who scored their goals? Barkley Goodrow, Pat Maroon, Ross Colton, you need those players to score in big situations and pick up the slack when some of your core players are not producing.

Even Stephen Stamcoast was not producing as much in the final, if I do recall correctly. So, again, that is very important moving forward. That is a lesson that I would take if I wanted to be able to stand-lick-up contender. You have to have that elite-level goal-tending me. I know the Penguins, they could have gotten through

with average goal tending in the first round but to beat a team like tampa you need more than average goaltending you probably need close to elite goaltending because not every night your team is going to have it i know i probably said that weirdly you know maybe in like master yoda's voice someone like that but your team is not going to have it every night and you're going to try to you're going to need to squeak out a win that you probably don't deserve due to your goalie standing on his head and oh yeah you also do need to get a little bit of lucky long the way i mean have to is the most high variant sport. For the reason, you need luck if you are going to get to the Stanley Cup final and win another

championship. Again, congratulations to the Tampa Bay Lightning. This was such a deserved championship. The people that are mad at Nikita Kuturov for just speaking his mind after the game, you people are a bunch of boomers, in my opinion. For the longest time, we're all saying, excuse me here. Oh, my God, bro. Like, hockey players need to show more personality.

they got to act not act like robots blah blah blah blah blah but yet the first time someone actually does not act like a robot and they show their personality well even though they're drunk they're like oh yeah that's not sportsmanship bro like that's just that's just being screwed up for being screwed up and it's like there's like no winning with these kind of people i mean Nikita kutrov the the flurry thing was hilarious he couldn't even remember his name just because he was so drunk but then the montreal thing i mean that was even more funnier i mean i understand that Habs fans will be mad about that and they should be. He's disrespecting their fan base. He's disrespecting their team. But when you win a championship in five games and especially if you win a championship back to back, you earn the right to talk shit,

I think in my opinion. Part of my language there. But I think you earn the right to talk as much crap as you want to when you win a championship back to back and when I think you're the leading freaking score on your team during this championship run.

I just really don't understand why people are. are mad for the sake of being mad, but I had to throw that a little bit of a rant in there after seeing a lot of weird takes about what happened with Kutrov. And again, everyone, this cup is not a deserve an asterisk. You know, you lose me in a lot of conversation of things about hockey,

and you just make me not really validate any of your opinions about the sport overall if you think this deserves an asterisk. I mean, the lightning, they want it. I mean, this is the best team in the league. You know, sure, there's a bit of a loophole in the salary cap. Blame that on Gary Bettman and the NHL. This is not a Tampa Bay lightning problem. I mean, the Blackhawks did it in 2015 with Patrick Kane missing the last few months of the season.

Heck, guys, even the Penguins did this with Evgeny Malkin. He missed what? The last two to three months of the season, they put him on LTIR. He's back by game to the playoffs, and he's just the regular Gino Machino. So, I mean, if you're going to dump on the lightning did, you know, dump on the Blackhawks and then dump on the penguins a little bit as well. So I thought I would throw that out there as well. Coming up in the next couple of segments,

we are going to sit down and talk with Adam Denker of Locked Online and talk about their back-to-back run and see how similar it was to the Penguins' Back-to-Back Cup run in 2016 and 17 and see if they, if he thinks actually that they have a really good chance at three-peating next year, even though I think I'm a little bit cautious against that. So stay tuned for that coming up in the next segment. All right. So since the Lightning have repeated as Stanley Cup champions, as we all know now, If you haven't, then you've been living under a rock for the last couple of days.

With me today to just kind of, I thought it would be fun to kind of get together with the host of the last team that repeated as champs. And that was the Pittsburgh Penguins. And with me is Hunter Hodes of Locked on Penguins. Hunter, you're on the beach right now enjoying the sweet life. But thanks for, you know, kind of getting together to do this. So, yeah, you're here. we're going to discuss what was the difference between the two cup runs.

And I think that's like the best way to start because for me personally, with the lightning with last year winning the cup for the first time since 0.4 and then this year repeating very big differences for these two teams, not personnel wise so much, but just kind of the feeling around it and the build up towards that last clinching win. Was there any maybe different feelings between the two years that you? you guys won a couple of years back or was it pretty much the same? It kind of felt similar if you watched like the last couple of years, like the 2020 Lightning's Cup.

It reminded me a bunch of a lot of the 2016 Penguins with how they kind of steamrolled everyone on their way to the final. I mean, Pittsburgh blew past the Rangers. It could have beat the Caps in five, had a tough series of course against Tampa Bay and then rolled the sharks in the final. That was kind of like what reminded me of the lightning last year. And then this year with Tampa, But everyone was fully healthy, you know,

especially with Kutraal coming back to the playoffs. But, you know, it was more reliant, I think, on Basilevsky being really good, defensively shutting the teams down. You know, a lot of what the Penguins did in 2017, especially because Chris LaTang wasn't there, that entire run. So they had to just play a lot of defense first. But they also, when they got chances, they would finish them. I noticed that a lot with this lightning run as well, you know.

Even, you know, sometimes they didn't get a lot of chances, especially against the Islanders of how they trapped down. But when they did get their chances, they buried them every single time, just like I think the Penguins did in 2017. So I think there's a lot of similarities between these two back-to-back cup runs for both teams, you know, especially in 2017 as well with Matt Murray, you know, he was 937 for Pittsburgh. You know, Vasilevsky was right around there, I think, for this run. So there's a lot more similarities than I think people are realizing with both these back-to-back runs.

Yeah. And the one similarity that I kind of saw as well is that it seems like the second time around is a little bit easier. And that's no disrespect towards the opponents. But when you really look at it, that especially in this playoff room with Tampa, I could attest to that there wasn't many times where their back was against the wall. Other than game seven for that Islander series, really, this was a pain-free experience for lightning fans. did you get that feeling from when the penguins repeated that second year as well or was it you know I feel like after winning that first cup unless you just injuries and all that stuff or guys have to leave or whatever the case may be that kind of propels you to the second cup it's almost sort of a guarantee that to some degree

that you would have a very good chance just because you you've experienced winning a championship and it's kind of like riding a bicycle once again. Yeah, and they had the same team coming back basically that next season anyway, which was so crucial as well. But yeah, I mean, the 2017 Cup, I mean, it felt a little bit easier, but they were also, I think, outplayed for a lot of games. A lot of that does have to do with Crystal Tang missing the entire playoffs. I mean, they didn't have the number one defenseman at all.

But, you know, they'd be Columbus in five, you know, like how Tampa Bay did with Carolina. they took out the capitals in seven games. Their backs were not even really against the wall in that series because they went up three games to one but kind of had two bad games in low. And then, you know, Florida House is Vasilevsky moment from this past year and shuts out the gaps in game seven. And then Ottawa, even though that series went to seven,

I never really thought they were in danger of losing it, you know, much I think how Tampa Bay fans felt with the Islanders. And then in the final against Nashville, when they went up too well, I had a pretty good feeling. about that, you know, as I'm sure all Lightning fans did this year as well. So, yeah, the runs are also very similar in that regard. It was definitely, the first one I thought was definitely a lot harder because, you know, Tampa had them on the ropes just because Vasselowski was so good

coming in. I remember just watching that series just been thinking, I have no idea who this guy is because Bishop just got hurt. But then I quickly realized because they almost beat probably the best team in the league from January onward after Mike Sullivan took over. So, yeah, man, it's just, It honestly is really funny with how similar these two runs were for both teams. I mean, they're both built the same way. You know, the Penguins, especially that Penguins 2016 team, they were probably just as deep, almost, well, almost as deep, I think, as these lightning teams. And the way they were able to also just destroy anyone they went up against,

it feels too, too similar, I think. I know you guys want to get back to our awesome conversation about the back-to-back cups with the lightning and how it compares to Penguins. But before we do get to that, it's time to talk. about Bilbar. We still have that limited time flavor. It actually expires today with the Bill Grasshopper cookie. It's available this week only until the night. You can get that new Bill Bar flavor. What does it taste like? It's Bill Bar's version of the classic thin mint mint cookie, all the flavor without all that sugar, 150 calories, 17 grams of protein and only

five grams of sugar. You still have all the other flavors that are also really good. The salted caramel, double chocolate, mint brownie, strawberry, orange, and of course my favorite, the cookies in cream. Most of the flavors have 17 to 18 grams of protein, calories ranging from 130 to 180, only 4 to 5 grams of sugar and only 4 to 5 grams of nut carbs. Amazing flavors, all tasty, and all healthy. You can order today and get their grasshopper cookie, raspberry, or whatever you want. You can go to Bilt.com and use promo code Locked15 and you'll get 15% off your order. That's promo code Locked 15 for 15% off at Bilt.com. Yeah, and the word that you brought up is that both these teams were deep.

And the one comparison that I see that I have very much enjoyed with this lightning team is that their third, fourth lines are very much capable of scoring as well as playing 200 feet of hockey, which you don't see very much in the league right now. You know, look at the Edmonton Oilers. They have two of the best players in the world. And that's it. And Euler fans are wondering why they can't win a cup. And then you look at some of the other teams that have won recently or have been successful, like Washington, they've relied solely on age and you really saw it this year in that playoff run where they couldn't really do much of anything. So now the thing that a lot of people, you know, we're only two days away, two days removed from it,

but obviously there are going to be people asking, can the lightning go for the three Pete? And so what was your state of mind after the penguins repeat it and we're looking for the three Pete? What percentage were you sure of that this team was capable of doing that? I thought they were capable of it, though I didn't expect it just because I knew they were so gassed after these last two. That's the thing with the lightning here,

They're not going to be, I think, as fatigued as the Penguins, just because, you know, and don't get me wrong, you know, they've played so many games these last 10 months. Winning two championships in less than a year takes a lot out of you. But I think, I do think the Penguins played more games, you know, especially with their top players. And it just caught up to them in 2018 when Washington was more fresh. Even though that series was 2-2 after four games, I had a weird feeling about it. Just like, oh my God, like they actually might lose here. And even if they won that series, I still honestly think Tampa Bay will have won the Eastern Conference final. But it's just, it's two is hard, but three is even harder just because, I mean, you're just, you're just that more gassed.

I mean, it's a lot of hockey and basically what, two, two and a half years, you know, that the same, a lot of the same team is playing together. It's just, it takes a lot more out of view, you know, you kind of want to, one thing I noticed that the Penguins during their 2018 season, they were trying to conserve as much energy as they could. during this season going into the playoffs. You know, I've read from a few beat reporters. I've had a couple people tell me that, you know, the penguins, they're not, that the players wouldn't admit it, but they kind of felt relieved after 2018

because they just almost had nothing left in the tank because they were so gassed. So it's going to be really tough. I wouldn't put it past the lightning to do it. In my opinion, I think someone else will win it next year. But again, you know, I wouldn't, again, I wouldn't put it past them. It's just, it's going to be that much,

because now everyone is going to be coming for you even more now than after last season. Yeah, and it's going to be interesting to see by that logic how their bodies could react to playing a full season now. You know, winning two cups, two playoff runs in 10 months, and then having to go and play a full season after, especially after the frequency of the games that were played this season. We saw it. Every team had it where there was a couple of players that went down relatively early, just because playing a game every other day is going to take a toll on the body. I don't care who it is.

And I think that the thing that might benefit the lightning in this scenario is that since they're very cap-strapped and they're going to probably have to shuffle things around with trying to move players to relieve themselves of some cap-space as well as with the cracking, with the expansion draft, that actually might work in their favor. They have a lot of players that play for them that were coming up and through the system during the regular season. And those guys have experience. And some of the guys that were even on the run this year with Baraboulet and Ross Colton, who scored the game winning goal in game five. Really, they didn't play a lot of games this year.

And so having that even that depth in the minor league system might actually help them going forward, where they could actually live without a Blake. Coleman, even though I feel that, you know, if money wasn't an object, they should give him a blank check and tell him to write whatever number is possible or suffices his needs. But yeah, I think that you're right. I think that, you know, going into next year, I think we might see especially with some players who, like Pat Maroon, who's been playing in three consecutive finals now, he might be dog down. And it's not exactly, he's not exactly a young guy either. So we might be seeing that. We might see that on Vasilesky, him going into his

27-year-old season now where, you know, he's still young, but playing these long playoff runs might have an effect on the body. But, yeah, it's going to be interesting to see. And I think that you guys, I think that, you know, the story isn't over with the Pittsburgh Penguins. They're one of the teams where I really had really thought that they were going to make a run going into this playoffs. They look, you guys looked fantastic coming into the playoffs.

and I was really shocked to have seen you guys kind of get bumped early on like you did the season prior. And you had the experience of getting bumped out by this Canadians team who hasn't really changed much since last year. What did you see out of this team this year that really allowed them to take that next step in the playoffs? I think they're a big thing. You know, Kerry Price played like playoff Kerry Price from last year, not regular season carry price where it looked like he was. playing like 905, 910, and 930, 940. And that's, I think, their biggest thing.

You know, they got contributions from all around their lineup. Nick Suzuki really came into his own. I thought he's going to be a really good player for them for many more years to come. Cole Cawfield, I'll never understand why he was scratched at the start of the playoffs. But as his playoffs went on, he quickly became one of their best players. Weber is trying to turn back time as much as he can. I thought he played well. Petrie, I thought, had a little bit more to give.

but, you know, the biggest thing was, you know, I know it's the oldest cliche in the book. You know, they figured out what their identity was, you know, they obviously don't have as much skill as some of these other teams. And they just, they stuck to it. You know, they played Vegas to a draw. They won the 50-50s, especially in overtime. And they were able to win that series, you know, sure they got a little bit lucky to get past Toronto, but, you know, you can kind of count on the Maple Leafs choking a game seven

here at this point with everything that's happened in the last, what, 10, 15 years at this point. And then, you know, they were to crush winter thing. So it was definitely an unlikely run. They're going to need to be careful going in the next season. They have to make their right decisions because going back to the usual divisions, I think there's probably four teams better than them going into next season. You know, that's not to take away with what they did. They came within three games of winning their first championship in, what, 28 years.

I think now is what it is. So, but I was just really happy for them, their fans. It was just they were able to, you know, to ride carry price as long as he's, could give them. They were able to get some nice scoring from some of their younger players, and they just played good defensive hockey, which was what their identity was. Yeah, they did a good job really, you know, playing tough physical hockey. And we saw in game three and four where that really started to show. And, and, but that's the thing with these teams. And I think that's why the lighting ultimately came on top, not only against the Canadians, but as well as the Islanders.

And last year in the finals against the stars is those three teams have. So, you know, similar styles of hockey, but in the end, when you're going out there and playing physical like that, but not able to really have that handful of players that could go out there and score goals for you on a nightly basis, I think that's what ultimately led to their downfall. With that and really, but they do have time to grow. They have a young team. Like you said, Nick Suzuki is a fantastic player. I think that Vegas possibly made a mistake by trading him for Max Petcherty.

back a couple of years ago. But thanks, Hunter. I'm not going to keep any longer. Go out there and enjoy that sun on the beach. I know I will next week in Puerto Rico. So have a good one, buddy. Yeah, yeah. Thank you for having me on.

We'll see if you guys can get close to that three. Hopefully, you know, we can get another Penguins Lightning series here before Sidgino collar quince. Yeah, absolutely. That would be interesting to see it. Best of Seven with Sidon Gino versus Kooch and Stammer. Oh, man, that's all the makings of a game seven overtime goal. We were robbed at that in 2016.

At least Stamcoast was able to come back from one game after the blood caught issue. But I remember how awesome that series was. It would be pretty cool to see next year if both teams were just playing really good hockey. Yeah, and with the way the divisions are now back to normal, it's a very well-possible thing to see. So we'll just have to sit and wait.

And, yeah, until then, best of luck in the upcoming season and draft, buddy. Yeah, you too, man. Okay, so thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Locked-on Penguins podcast. I'll be back again next week. It is almost time for silly season, folks. The expansion draft lists are due, I think, in about a week now. The draft is coming up in a couple weeks for the agency is coming in a few weeks.

Keep it right here on Locked on Penguins as soon as the Penguins do any sort of new. You will hear it first from me. I'll do a Lockdown Now video and I'll do a full analysis on the Lockdown. on Penguins podcast. So can't wait to see what happens during silly season. And I'll talk to you all next week. I hope you all have a wonderful rest of your weekend.