Locked On Penguins - Daily Podcast On The Pittsburgh Penguins - Is there a big organizational shift underway with the firing of Jason Karmanos?

Episode Date: October 26, 2020

The Penguins finally did a couple things that Hunter can talk about and he brings back Tyler (iFishyHD) from Penguins twitter to get his opinions about them as well. What are his thoughts on the Karmanos firing? Is Jason Botterill going to be back? The two then get into some potential big theories behind these moves...one of them being if this was ownership mandated? Is this the start of the Penguins going fully into an analytics front office? Has Mario removed one of the "Yes Men" from Jim's staff like Jim did to Mike Sullivan's coaching staff? After that, the two also talk about the Cody Ceci signing, plus a long discussion towards the end about the EA NHL game franchise and what changes need to be made.Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors! Rock AutoAmazing selection. Reliably low prices. All the parts your car will ever need. Visit RockAuto.com and tell them Locked On sent you.Built BarBuilt Bar is a protein bar that tastes like a candy bar. Go to builtbar.com and use promo code “LOCKEDON,” and you’ll get 20% off your next order.BuiltGoVisit BuiltGO.com and use promo code “LOCKED,” and you’ll get 20% off your next order. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello, welcome to this episode of the Locked-on Penguins podcast. I'm your host, Hunter Hodes. Follow me on Twitter at Hunter Hodes, follow the show's Twitter at L-O-N-Sore Penguins. So after about maybe a week, week and a half of the Penguins being completely dormant with moves, they made a couple big front office moves today. The first, of course, being Jason Carmanos, the assistant general manager, well, former assistant general manager, was relieved of his duties. Sam Ventura takes over in an interim role.

And then they also hired, well, just as what we're recording, this, Trevor Daly has been hired as a hockey operations, oh, geez, I already forgot the tweet. Hockey operations advisor to Jim Rutherford. So, um, helping me dissect these moves today is Tyler from Hengland's Twitter. His Twitter is at I-Fishy HD. That's honestly one of the greatest Twitter handles of all time. So Tyler, how are we doing today, man? Good.

How you doing, man? Not doing too, too bad. This was definitely unexpected. I came into today, not really knowing what I was going to be talking about on the podcast. today just because it's so quiet right now around the league. No one really knows when the season's going to start. Free agency has just died off so quick. But the Penguins at least has given us a couple things to talk about.

So when you first read that Carmanos was out in Ventura, was taking over an interim role, what were your thoughts on that? I mean, I don't really think anybody probably has any serious thoughts on Comanis. We don't really know what his opinions are on anything. but I definitely thought it was interesting that we were attracting somebody from the front office when all summer they said they wanted to add another person to what they already had. So I don't think it's done. I don't think so either.

I mean, you tweeted about this on your Twitter too. I mean, I agree with you. This definitely opens the door for Jason Botrell coming back. I would expect an announcement if they're going to bring him back and what the next day or so. I mean, hell, it even could be today for all we know. But, I mean, it would not surprise me in the slightest if he has brought back as an assistant GM. And, you know, hopefully Sam, you know, the big thing is here is I hope Sam Ventura can keep that assistant GM role full time after the interim period. I think you had like a great suggestion.

You can bring Botryl back as an assistant and then have Ventura as an associate to Jim or honestly you can just have both of them as assistants because they never really replaced Billy Garum when he went to Minnesota since he was an assistant GM. So having both of those guys there as assistants to Jim, they're both pretty, you know, analytical. You know, they lose a lot of analytics, I think, with their signings and trades. I know Bottle was bad in Buffalo, didn't look like he used them there. But, you know, when he was with Pittsburgh, I could definitely tell that he was key in making some of those moves. Yeah, I agree. I think Bauder would be a good person to bring back maybe because he's kind of shown us.

he has a way of reigning in Jim Rutherford, which isn't something that not a lot of people seem to possess. And yeah, he was pretty bad in Buffalo, but you're right, he's analytically inclined. And he did build a two-time Stanley Cup winning core with Jim. So I hope you'd get him back. And I agree. I really hope they keep Sam and Turin in some kind of elevated role compared to where he was before, which was director of hockey research and development. I'd really like to see him stay with some kind of GM tag next to his name.

Yeah, I agree. And, you know, maybe this is all just a setup for a few years from now. If Jim Rutherford resigns or San Ventura is the Penguin's official general manager, I think honestly a lot of people would sign up for that. I mean, I would be totally down for just because, you know, how analytically inclined he is. And he just seems like he's just on the rise, I think, in the hockey community. and the fact that Rutherford let go of Carmanos, who he's worked with for a number of years,

instead of Ventura, who I think has only been with a team for three to four years. I think that honestly shows that he likes Sam. He values what, you know, he likes what he brings to the hockey operations department. And even though, I mean, I'm sure Sam probably doesn't want the team to sign Jack Johnson or Cody C.C. or Mike Matheson, I mean, like I said, I think it shows that Jim has a really good relationship with Sam. and that, you know, he, he definitely saw, I think, values his opinion on stuff.

Yeah, that's the weird thing is, you know, I don't want to be a hater of anybody or anything, but it seems like Rutherford, I don't want to say it was dismissive of Sam in the past, but like you said, I doubt Sam was lining up to have Jim go call Jack Johnson or Cody Cici or anything. So to see him in an elevated role, even right now it's temporarily, we'll have to see all what else shakes out. you're right. I do think it does show that he values his opinion, maybe even more that we thought in the first place. Yeah, I agree. I think maybe if Sam just says, oh, you shouldn't sign this player, maybe Jim just goes against it because, you know, old hockey head, the hockey operation staff that don't use analytics as much, that are just like, yeah,

I do it, you know, whatever. But, you know, hopefully that with Sam in an elevated role, and if he gets that position full time, he'll have more of a say in these, you know, roster management, and NHL signings, trades, all that good stuff. And, you know, I mean, Jason Bodro, he'll definitely have a big say just because, like you said, he's been here for many years. He helped Jim Rutherford with the 2016 and 2017 Cup team. So we're really interested to see if they do bring him back. And lastly, so Tyler, right before we started recording, they brought the Penguins bring back

Trevor Daly. He announces his retirement from the NHL after, what was it, 16 seasons. He just played his last few. with the Detroit Red Wings. He has a hockey operations advisor. The Penguins tweeted out in his new role, he will be based out of Pittsburgh and reported directly to Jim, assisting in player evaluations at the NHL and HL level,

as well as acting as an eye in the sky for the coaching staff during games. You know, when you hear that, Tyler, what are your thoughts on that move? Good for Trevor Daly. Good to see him back in Pittsburgh. I'm sure this is probably a place he wanted to be, probably a place he remembers very fondly. I mean, it's hard to know exactly what he'll do. I do think one that sitting here thinking about it,

I like about it is Trevor Daly played some pretty fast-paced hockey. He liked to score goals as a defenseman and uses foot speed. So hopefully he can be somebody who brings the speed initiative back into the organization. Yeah, I mean, hopefully he can go out and help Jim acquire players that actually fit the system, you know, that aren't slow like Jack Johnson or even Cody Cici. But, you know, we're going to talk about Cody Cici. coming up in the next segment. But, you know, he just, he, he played the style that, you know,

the Penguins wanted in 2016 and 17. I know his numbers analytically weren't always the best. His possession wasn't really good. I don't think, honestly, it was ever good for his career. But, you know, he can move the puck up the ice well. He had a nice shot. Like you said, he scored a bunch of goals. Good playmaker, I thought, too.

I know he was suspect in the defensive zone. But, like I said, like, those are the kind of defensemen. that I think the penguins need to acquire in future years. I mean, obviously, you know, you can add on the better in the defensive zone part. But, you know, I'm really hoping that Trevor can, you know, actually assist Jim in some player development, player management, roster management, whatever he's going to do for the penguins. So, but like I said, it's good that he is back. I didn't expect him to be back.

I honestly thought he was going to be signing with another team. I did not think he was going to be announcing his retirement after the season. but you know i guess teller once you play three years with a really awful detroit redwings team maybe that takes a toll on you yeah i can't imagine he was uh dying to get son with another rebuilding team after that yeah i don't think so either go ahead no i was just um yeah i'm glad to see him back i i don't think yet he wanted to be in a rebuilding position anymore that certainly takes a toll on you especially after he won back-to-back cups and then probably lost more games and combined those three seasons than he did in his whole career.

Yeah. That was, it must have been really, really hard to play for the Red Wings. They were just truly awful. I was surprised, honestly, he wasn't traded during one of those three years to a contender to go in another Stanley Cup. I mean, I guess he didn't really care that much because he had to. But, you know, if I were him, I honestly, probably would have asked out. But, you know, like I said, go bet he's back in Pittsburgh.

Hopefully he makes, well, hopefully he helps Jim and not making mistakes. because, you know, he's always been making mistakes these last the years. But Tyler, it seems like just before we get to the commercial break, you know, there's a, this, this, a lot of this firing just seems sketchy. I mean, we're definitely seeing some conspiracy theories out there. I mean, Jeff LaTang Colt has a pretty big one on his Twitter right now. Please go following that Latang called that this could be a ownership kind of thing. Basically, Mike DeFabo of the Post-Gazette, that's right. I almost mixed up the two papers there.

Biaxon. So he basically, he asked, Rutherford about this firing and he said, I'm not going to get into the reason. So, Tyler, something definitely seems fishy here. You know, Jeff seems to, do you think that, you know, this could be a big, you know, shift? I know we were just talking about this too.

I mean, could this be like a big organizational shift to analytics, you think? I mean, for a while now, we've known that Mario Lemieux and Ron Burkle stay out of the hockey operation stuff. They usually let Jim or, you know, was Ray Shiro or Craig Patrick. They let them do their thing. But now it seems like potentially something is changing as we're getting closer to the end of the Crosby-Mulcanary. You know, what are your thoughts on this?

I mean, we really have never had that many big runoffish changes in Penguin's history period. And, you know, the last big one was obviously watching Shiro and Bowsman go in the same offseason. So you see it's like they really wait until they know it's time. And then they just kind of revamp the whole thing from the ground up, if that makes sense. And obviously they're not going to do that right now because I don't think Jim Rutherford has been very bad, but I can see the angle where Mario Lemieux says, I don't want to fire him because we only have a year or two left of contention anyway. Do you really want to take a chance of bringing in anybody as a brand new GM and say win a cup this year, or win a cup within the next two years?

Like, that's a very daunting task to put on anybody. And, you know, Rutherford's already been in this position and won two back-to-back cups. So I can see why they maybe wouldn't want to go for Rutherford. But like you said, I think this is maybe a little bigger of a development, just all the new front office stuff, than maybe we thought it first. Maybe it's analytics driven. Maybe Jason Karminez had some demons he's battling right now or something.

but if Bauderill was brought back, I definitely would say it's a shift towards the analytic. Yeah, I think so soon. I mean, we talked about it already, but I mean, I think, Tyler, this could be a big step into San Ventura being the GM one day. It didn't really look like you, but he was just the director of hockey research,

but, you know, say there's a scenario here, you bring Jason Bostrell back, and by all indications are, I think he's going to come back unless they hire Mike Rupp or something like that, God forbid. he is just, he's not going out to be such a general manager, but you say you bring Jason back, having me the cap guy,

maybe you promote Sam to associate GM, and then when Rutherford resigns or retires, or if he's fired, maybe after next year if the Penguins do really bad, which I'm probably not going to happen, Sam could be right there as an in-house replacement for him. So, I mean, I see where some of these theories are coming from. I'm just,

I'm fully not sold on it just because Mario and Ron have never been around, like the hockey operation stuff. But like I said, And if there's been a shift, I mean, this would definitely make sense. I agree. And it is hard to comprehend in a way. Like you said, the owners really usually stay out of all this kind of stuff. But, I mean, why was Carmenus fired in the first place?

Like I said, maybe he's got some kind of demons going on that we don't know about whatever, right? But if that's not the case, then why let him go? You know what? I mean, like we said earlier, this is a front office. that was looking for more help, not less. So, like, I do think it could kind of be shaping up for an analytics movement. Yeah, I agree. And, I mean, especially if Sam gets that position full time,

you got to think Jim is going to give him the green light to go hire a bunch of of analytics gurus to join his staff. I really do believe that. Yeah, and I'd be excited to see that. Like you said, I would like to see Sam Ventura take over one day. I think he's a phenomenal guy. You know, he knows a lot of stuff. Yeah, I absolutely do.

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That's promo code locked on for 20% off at BiltBar.com. All right, so welcome back to this episode of the Lockdown Penguins Podcast. So Tyler, it's been a while since you, you know, you've been on this podcast. So I just wanted to get your thoughts on the last penguin signing, Cody C.C. I'm sure you're in the camp that most of us are, that it's not a good signing. He's not a good player. He doesn't really bring a lot to this team. But still, wanted to get your thoughts on it, you know, is, do you think there's an outside chance that Rueedal can take that job from him?

Or do you also see that the penguins could bench Cici just because he doesn't make a lot of money? Yeah, definitely. I'd hope Chad Rueto will get the starting third-paring right defenseman spot to start the year. But you're right, that's probably pretty unlikely. I do think there's a chance that Rueito could take that spot back because I don't think we'll be married to Cody C.C. The same way we were to Jack Johnson or even the same way that we are now to Mike Matheson or anybody. So I think there's a chance CEC can be okay. The thing you want from him is just not to kill you.

I don't think he's ever going to make us a better team, really, but hopefully he just doesn't kill us in the same way that Jack Johnson did kill us. I mean, the thing that is so confusing about it is Chad Roo-Edle was a relatively perfect partner from Mike Matheson. Chad Roo-Eel is an awesome 5V-5 defender. I don't know what else you really wanted. They bought Cici because they think. He is what Chad Ruehoodle already is, if that makes sense, you know? Yeah, that's, honestly, I didn't think of it that way.

I mean, you're right about Ruehiel, though. It's 5B5 numbers offensively and defensively are perfectly fine for a third-paring role. Make 700K for this season, and I think for the next season as well. You combine that with Matheson's pretty high cap hit of almost 5 million. It's not that much for the third pairing, but now you're adding CC, which is a bit more, I think it's like closer to $7.6.6. something closer to $7 million. And now you have a third pairing of Matheson who is good offensively but trashed defensively.

And then you have CC on the other side who has a terrible shot, cannot move the puck up the ice. I think his zone entries, zone exits per 60 are some of the worst in the league. And oh yeah, he really can't defend in his defensive zone. But I agree with you as well. As long as he doesn't bar fall over himself like Jack Johnson did for virtually every game of his Penguins tenure, especially in the playoffs against Montreal. It's an upgrade. And that's a weird way to, it's a funny way to say it.

But honestly, man, like, he probably is an upgrade over Jack Johnson. Yeah, I'd agree there. I mean, maybe hopefully somehow Eric Granson played some really good hockey for us. I mean, maybe they'd think Cody Cici can replicate that in a way. But so, like we said before, Chad Rooidos already showed that he's better anyway. so it's really just you're taking an unnecessary risk, really. Yeah, and I think they're going to hope that Todd Reardon can work some magic for him. I mean, we all know that Chris LaTang had some really good years under Reardon.

People are starting to call him the defensive whisperer again. I'm not really going to buy into that just because people said the same thing about Sergey Gonshire. I mean, yeah, I worked for a couple with Jamie Alexiak. Like you said, Eric Good Branson before he turned back into a pumpkin. But, you know, people try to use that same thing with Jack Johnson. It didn't work. You know, they tried to use the same thing for, I'm just trying to, I mean, Justin Schultz, it worked for a little bit. But, you know, as he started to get more minutes and then, you know, after the injuries, just wasn't the same player.

And for some reason, they didn't want to bench him even though they publicly trashed him on the way out. But, I mean, I think the good part is, like I said, and I'm glad you agree, you know, they can actually bench CC if he plays bad. He makes $1.2 million for one season. it's not five years of Jack Johnson while making $3.25 million per season I guess probably that was the biggest reason why they didn't want to bench him although it's a crappy reason

I guess that's why they did that Yeah I mean it's in the end I guess it's just depth either way The thing with the defensive whisper is we're trying to sign players Who have already either passed their prime Or really as good as they're ever going to be Like most of these guys that we're talking about

or like 27 or older. These aren't young players that you can really, you know, mold into a certain, certain breed of defensemen that you want to have on your team. These are guys who have proven what they are as a commodity to an NHL team. And the penguins have kind of fooled themselves into thinking that they can fix everybody rather than just fix one or two guys.

You know what I mean? Yeah. That's the best way to honestly say it. You know, they think, oh, yeah, we did this once with Alexia. We did this once with Good Branson. We did it for a little bit with Schultz. Oh, we can do anyone. And like I said, that's the exact reasoning that they had with Jack Johnson.

And then, you know what? It didn't work because he played at a below replacement NHL player. Honestly, he played at a level of like an HL player. So, I mean, I think a lot of Jim Rutherford's plans, you know, it's just like throwing shit at a wall and hoping it sticks. And, you know, I think that's what he's doing for this one with Cici. I'm glad it's only a one-year deal. If he stinks, you cut him. then you can have Chad Ruehiel in the full-time spot, though.

A lot of me is hoping that Ruehdle takes that full-time spot this season and actually beats them out in training camp. Yeah, that's exciting too. I think we're going to have one of the most competitive training camps we've seen the Penguins have in a super long time. Like, we have a bunch of fours that are trying to fight for those third and fourth-line spots, and we have eight defensemen. And, you know, if everybody's plan is that Yusorikula and Chad Ruehilo

both are on the bench. Like those are two really good defensemen too that can go into training camp and prove their case. So, I mean, I think the roster will shake out a lot like what we think it will already. But I mean, it's going to be a competitive camp regardless. Yeah, it really will be.

I'm excited to see it. One more before we move to the next segment. Tyler, do you think Pullen's going to make the team out of camp? Yes. Oh, okay, okay. I like it. I mean, I'm still on the fence about it. I think there's a place for him on the team right now with a couple injuries, of course, to

Aston Reese. He's obviously not going to be available until February or March. But, I mean, I can see it, especially if, I'm just, I'm curious to see what happens there. I don't know if he really is going to make it because they have a bunch of forwards. They just signed with Jankowski, and then they brought back Rodriguez, and then, you know, Austin Reese is going to be ready. And then, of course, they like Sam Lafferty. So I just, I don't know if I see.

it for this year. Do I want it, though? Absolutely. The thing with Pullen for me is I'm not a prospect whisper by any means or anything, but I've been trying to go and watch some film of him, and I plan on watching more, especially when hopefully we get a World Juniors this year. That would be amazing. Yeah. But Pullen is a big boy. He's like 6-2-215, and he has a really seemingly well-rounded game, which I think is the reason we could see him in the NHL this year is that he's not a, like a Daniel Sprong type, where if he's not scoring a million goals, he's not doing anything, or I think Pullen will really impress the coaching staff with how he uses his frame to get the puck in the zone,

and he's a really good playmaker, and he's a very good passer, it seems like. So I think these are things that the team could really use right now, just in general, because we have a lot of guys who the bottom six isn't really that sexy either way. It would look a lot sexier if Sam Pullen was playing in the top six and Casperi Capon was on that third line right wing or vice versa. Yeah, that's the perfect spot for Captain is that third line right wing. And would you see, could you see Pullen getting into the top six? I know that's where a lot of people want him.

It would be, I think, awesome if he got to play next to Sidney Crosby. but you know i've also seen some takes that you know people are like oh yeah i mean he's he's gonna produce pretty well you know when he comes up and it's like i mean you guys gotta like temper your expectations a bit i mean there's no doubt he can produce a bit but you know there's some people saying that he's going to be like a 20 goal score like right away and it's like that's just that's not gonna happen yeah um like i said i think his playmaking is one of his most underrated parts so i think that could be a thing that would really benefit him playing in the top six if we can get crosbie and mocking to shoot the puck which that's just dependent on what year it is because they choose what

years they shoot the puck in what years they don't but but back to uh back to pool and i i would play him in the top six personally because that's i mean that's where he's going to end up regardless in a year or two anyway if he is what we think he is and i just think you're raising the ceiling of what Sam Pulling can give you if he's playing with Crosby and Malkin. Like Casparry Capitan is a, he's probably just about is what he is. I've seen a lot of people saying that he's still young, whatever. I mean, I understand he could certainly break out himself, but I think you're benefiting pooling if you're playing him in the top six just because it's where he's going to end up

and you want a high-ceiling player, like, pulling playing with guys that are going to elevate his floor. You know what I mean? Yeah, I agree with you there. I mean, if he doesn't make the team out of camp, I definitely expect him to be a call-up during the season because, Tyler, there's going to be injuries for the penguins that happens virtually every season.

And, you know, I loved your point there. You know, the cross-bogg, they basically, like, they pick and shoes which seasons, they shoot the fucking score a bunch of goals. So it's like clockwork. I mean, next season it's probably going to be like their big play. Honestly, that next season is probably going to be their big goal scoring season because I don't think Sid scored a lot of goals on this past season.

So I'm not expecting Sid to go like for 40 to 45 next season. So that's going to be a bunch of fun. But I'm coming up out of this commercial break. We're going to talk about the EA NHL franchise and why, you know, it's just, it's a bad product now. All right, welcome back to this episode of the Lockdown Penguins, podcast. Tyler, I won't keep you too long here, but, you know, I wanted to save this discussion for last. I have not gone in an EA NHL game probably since the 2017 one. Wasn't bad, but then

I just, I realized that they had the same bugs over and over and over again. There's like three to four ways to score. The goal tending is just so glitchy in the game. It's just a bad product. What are your thoughts on the EA NHL fans? franchise. Well, I didn't buy NHL 21 this year, but that's mostly due to fault of VA because they're not having any next gen versions on PlayStation 5 or the new Xbox. So that's something that's really disappointing to see, especially because you think they want the money for that to invest in their their next product for next gen, even if it was just a hard copy of NHL 21. You know, they didn't like Madden plans on up. upgrading for next gen and so does 2K. But even if the NHL could just give us a game for this year, like that's that's bad to begin with. But you're you're 100% right.

It's mostly the same stuff every year. It just seems like they are never able to innovate anything that anybody actually wants. Whatever they innovated, it's not to the benefit of the consumer. You know what I mean? Yeah, exactly. And, you know, it's just, you know, the threes that they brought in. okay, be a GM mode, whatever, you know, you can simulate those playoffs all you want, you know, you play against the computer or whatever, but, you know, just with online,

I played a bunch of online versus, you know, when I was a kid, you know, 15, 16, 17, where all those were coming out, you know, played up all the way to NHL 2017. And, you know, I would just, I'd be hoping that they would change something in those, you know, year after year. They would, hopefully they would tweak the goal attending because they would allow some really awful goals, but then they would just make the most ridiculous saves. And it's like, can we just get any consistency here? I mean, the big ways to score, they stay the same, a point shot, a point shot deflection,

and that stupid, awful cross-ice pass that everyone uses. It is the most cringe part of playing against people in that game. It's just like, it's just not skillful to me when people do that. Yeah, you got the short side wrister and the cross creases, and that takes up about 90% of the goals in the game. That was a big reason back when I did play. I was only into ESHO, which is the sixes mode where you have your whole team play and they know one person's left defense, one person's right defense was because I found the game to play with the AI's borderline unplayable because the computer is just nothing they do makes any sense. Either that or they're gods and you can't even beat them if you want it to. I really think that EA needs to take a big step forward next year.

they haven't moved to the Frostbite 3 engine yet, which is very baffling to me. I don't think if anybody, hopefully somebody like 2K comes out with the new hockey game, because if not, I don't think we're ever going to see EA truly listen to their customer base. Yeah, I agree. And then, you know, have you seen their player rankings that they do? They release their top 10 rated defensemen, and they just put like, Drew D. Gowdy in their top five almost. And it's just like, what are we doing here?

Like, what are you guys basing your rankings and your ratings off of? I just, it's just gone down the gutter these last two years. What are you going to say? Go ahead. I've heard before, and I can't say if this is true for sure or not, but I've heard it is because there is one person who does the ratings for every, every player in the NHL video game from the NHL to the AHL to

SHO whatever there's one person who does it all and that's just that explains a lot it's just very very embarrassing what changes do you want to see in the NHL games moving forward you know if you if you just were able to put on a hat and make all the changes that you wanted to make there's so many gameplay changes

it's hard to start but they'd really just need to refine the gameplay and at least have it make some sort of sense and have real flow to the game. The games feel so clunky anymore, whether it's no matter what you're trying to do. If you're trying to play defense or hit somebody, your guys just, it feels like you never really have total control

of what's going on in the game because the game has a mind of its own. And I really think they need to invest in things like GM mode and competitive EASHL 6s. they choose to just prioritize Hutt every year and it's for the short-term gain of their pockets and that's very depressing as well. Yeah, I never did a lot of Hutt when I was playing.

I would check it out. I saw some people would stream it on Twitch. I would check it out. It honestly just wasn't, it didn't look that fun to play. But, I mean, if they're just going to make all those changes to that, but not to like the actual gameplay mechanics

and, you know, maybe creating more ways. to score, you know, just changing the goaltending. I mean, one of the funniest stories I don't think I've ever told this on the podcast for, I don't think I've told it to honestly, too many people in this game. I was playing an online versus game. I think this was NHL 16, up two to one, less than

five seconds to go in the third period. Guy has a face-off in my own end. Don't, it doesn't even have the goalie pole. I'm going to win this game. I win the face-off back, goes off my goalie and in. It just goes off his skate in-in. I literally sat there.

mouth open, probably through my controller at the couch. And I was just like, I won the game in overtime, but I was just like, how was that a mechanic in this game? Oh, I've done that. Buddy that I used to play with in sixes. I, man, I did that to him one time. I was the center and I took the face off and just put it right between his five-fold. And he was very mad at me.

He was not happy. It was so, oh, it was so wag. I won the face off back, goes through my goalies five hole it in. I was like, what? Oh, man, I despise that franchise. Hopefully it gets better, you know, for the next one. I mean, I saw some people have been tweeting on Twitter that they may not be getting it. It's like, yeah, join the movement.

Hopefully they make some actual changes coming up soon, maybe for even NHL 20, or something like that, but that's far away from now. But, Tyler, I really appreciate you coming on, man, especially on such short. notice. The Penguins finally were able to make some moves today. Well, not player related, but man's related. So I really appreciate you coming on this episode. Yeah, man. Thanks for having me. It's always a great time. Yeah, absolutely. So you guys don't remember. Follow Tyler on Twitter at I-Fishy HD. We'll have another episode of this podcast coming for you all tomorrow. So I hope you all have a great rest of your day.