Locked On Penguins - Daily Podcast On The Pittsburgh Penguins - It's long time listener, first time guest szn

Episode Date: June 2, 2021

Another day, another guest on an episode of the Locked On Penguins podcast, and today, that's Wesley Uhler from ESPN Pittsburgh. They go all into the Penguins' loss against the Islanders as Wes gives his opinion on what the team should do in goal for next season. SHould Brian Rust be dangled for a good package? Wes wonders about that as he's almost been a 30 goal scorer two years in a row. What would be a realistic return would he be? And why wouldn't you want to pay him his next contract? They also touch on Mike Sullivan and why it's a no-brainer for him to come back for at least another season. Finally, they talk about what Hextall has to do this offseason to improve the team around the edges as there will definitely be some changes made.Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!BetOnline AGThere is only 1 place that has you covered and 1 place we trust. Betonline.ag! Sign up today for a free account at betonline.ag and use that promocode: LOCKEDON for your 50% welcome bonus.Built BarBuilt Bar is a protein bar that tastes like a candy bar. Go to builtbar.com and use promo code “LOCKED15,” and you’ll get 15% off your next order.Rock AutoAmazing selection. Reliably low prices. All the parts your car will ever need. Visit RockAuto.com and tell them Locked On sent you.WealthfrontTo get your first $5,000 managed for FREE, for life, go to wealthfront.com/LockedOnNHL. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Your Locked-on Penguins. Your daily podcast on the Pittsburgh Penguins. Part of the Locked-on Podcast Network. Your team every day. Hello, welcome to this Wednesday episode of the Locked-on Penguins podcast. I'm your host, Hunter Hodes. Remember to follow me on Twitter at Hunter Hodes. Follow the show's Twitter at L-O-HenSquare Penguins.

This episode is brought to you by Lockroom, download the app, and join me this week. I'm not sure what day in time I'm going to be. be doing it yet probably sometime this weekend lock room changing the way we talk sports and this is probably the first time that i'm doing an episode for uh a day but i'm doing it the day before i usually record on the actual day but today um just because you know scheduling stuff uh we have decided to record wednesday's episode on tuesday and we have a very special guest joining us today i've been on his show uh probably thousands of times already i just lost count

i think at this point he he he is wesley euler he who does was ESPN Pittsburgh, the afternoon delight from 2 to 7, who has on a wide array of guests from Phil Bork, Tim Benz, you know, Jeff from Penn's blog, I already talked about me, I don't need to keep talking about me here, but I'm a whole bunch of different guests, Mike DeFabo as well. Wes, how you doing, man? I'm good, buddy.

I mean, you know, it's June. I was hoping that I could obviously ignore the pirates all the way through the summer, roll a nice Penguins cup run right into La Trobe and Steenob. training camp and everything would have been hunky dory. But unfortunately, that is not the way she goes. But I can't complain, buddy. The weather is beautiful. It's summertime.

And I guess at least I won't be stressed drinking 37 beers every night. At least I got that going for me. Yeah, yeah, you know, I was just, Michael was I want them to be playing by the 4th of July. You know, it's nothing. That never happens. This was a season like any other with the pandemic, even though it is, you know, we're almost basically up two runs in the bottom of the ninth with two outs in like an 02 count with the strike count.

But I just, I wanted to get to the 4th of July. You know, it pained me to shave my beer just a couple of days ago because, you know, I honestly forgot what it's like from the last four to five years.

They have not been going far. But, you know, let's just dive right into it, man. You know, that six game series. I said a lot on my Twitter. I said it on your show. It was just one goalie was really good. One goalie was not.

And, you know, I don't really think you have to analyze it more than that. I think the Islanders have a horseshoe so far up their butts that it's pretty it's pretty bizarre to watch you know you watch that game against boston in their game one and they're out Boston's out shooting them by like 20 going into the third period and the game is tied and it's like wow where have I seen this before you know then last night um they're they're playing a bit better but you know Boston is still out playing

them later in the game the game goes to OT and then after Boston I think was dominating the overtime Casey Ziz gets gets the overtime goal and it's like I mean this team it just it defies logic with how they keep winning games and you know if i'm the penguins you come right back out i think with mostly the same group obviously there's going to be changes um just what do you think they should do um this summer when you look at the series yeah a couple things though real quick like i i do think hunter the islanders deserve some credit in that discussion right like they are a team that is built that is coached that is very comfortable playing on those razor thin margins you know in those those tight games where just one swing one way or the

other is quite often the difference. A lot of teams aren't comfortable playing that style of hockey. The Islanders are, I think they don't, comfort. I mean, they lean into playing that way, right? It is their bread and butter. And so I do think that, yeah, you see a lot of times things have bounced their way, certainly, but they were also a team that was in the Eastern Conference final last year. They're a good hockey team.

They know the way that they're playing and they're very comfortable doing so. It reminds me a lot of the Baltimore Ravens, right? Like they're not a mystery. They're not going to do it time to surprise you. how they have to win. They know how they have to win. It's not like they can spread the ball all over the field and run the ball, right? Like they're very one-dimensional, but they're comfortable playing that way, and they do very well, and they win a lot of games playing that way. But with all that said, I mean, yeah, it all comes down to goaltending. That's not the only issue, right? If you and I were

making issues of why the Penguins' reasons the Penguins lost this series, it's not like we would just write one Tristan Jarre and then stop. You know, there's two, three, four, five on that list. But yeah, the goaltending, certainly at the top of the issues of the reasons why, of the questions that we're asking now in the fallout of the series. And Hunter, I think rightfully so. And we cover these things from look at these things, evaluate these things with black and gold glasses on. A lot of people have said that, you know, Tristan Jari would have just played average hockey. The Penguins would have won this series in five games. And I think that's true.

But I also think it's fair to say maybe if Barry Trots goes with Sorokin the whole way, maybe the Islanders win that series in five games too. So I think you touched on it, though. I think this core has earned one more year. You know, that's kind of now that we've had some time to dissect and think about it, Gino's on the last year of his contract, Latang's on the last year of his contract. You just saw the capitals do it with Alexander Ovechkin. Let's let those contracts play out. Let's play this next season.

Let's see how it goes. Yes, there will be changes. That doesn't mean they're just going to run it straight back, right? I think, and we can get into all this. Obviously, this is your podcast. I don't know exactly where you want to go here. but I would venture Gensel, Rust, cap, and in it of one of those three, I bet you was not back next season.

And I think that will be the move. And I'm not saying, you know, I love it or I hate it. I just think, much like when you traded James Neal, right, to get something, you got to give something. That's just the way that it goes in any salary cap league. We can argue, and maybe as well as we made discussion for a different time, but I think you see the Penguins, give this core one last run that they deserve,

but that doesn't mean they're just going to run it back. There will be tweaks. I think we'll see some guys. We know the penguins don't have a loaded farm system, but there's a couple guys there that are knocking on the door and seemingly ready. I'll be interested to see how Hextall and Burke evaluate those guys, and they're kind of, we don't know how that works. You bring the rookies up, low cap hit, nice and good for your roster management there.

So there will be moves, Hunter. But I think the big three are back. I think largely this is not the scorched earth off season. If the team misses the playoffs next year, if they're another one and done in the playoffs, okay, then we're probably getting there. But this core has earned the right. They were a good team this year.

Yeah, the goaltending, you know, crap the bed. And yeah, they have not been good enough in the playoffs three straight years. It's not just a this year problem. But all that said, I think this core has earned one last shot at this thing. And then you kind of go from there. You make tweaks around it, obviously, this summer. but you don't you don't hit the you know the panic red you don't hit the the nuclear red button this off season coin one yeah they don't need to go all the way there yeah i foresee it kind of being

you know like alexander ovetkin thing where they may not extend them this season but they may wait until after and be like okay you know what number are you looking at how much your term is looking for i mean they'll sign back i don't think they'll i think so too but right it gives you the flexibility that if malkin or latang one of the other goes out there and has a dreadful season next year, and they miss half the season due to injury, and the team is won and done in the playoffs again, or God forbid,

misses the playoffs for the first time since, like, HD TVs were getting rolled out. Then all bets are off. But I think you're right. I think that's the way to go here. Yeah, last time they made the playoffs, I was eight years old. So it has been a very long time since that happened.

I was in middle school, and I am now in my 30s. Yeah. So, you know, West may be old. older than me, but he definitely looks like he's about 15 years old. I do still get carded buying cigars. This is true. Yes, I definitely would definitely would get that. I mean, I also do as well, so it's okay. But, you know, I think, you know, one of those three players that you mentioned definitely will get traded. You know, I keep seeing these takes, Wes, well, Jake Gensel is not physical

enough for the playoffs. Jake Gensel needs to be traded. Jake Gensel this, Jake Gensel that. And it's like, I understand. I get it. You know, three goals in his last 14 playoff games. It's not good enough. But, you know, the guy also. also had 23 goals in his first 37 playoff games. You're not going to sustain that, even though it's been 14 games. That's just not sustainable. The regression was always going to come, but he led the team in high danger chances in the playoffs.

He led the team in shots. He was the team leader in shot attempts. Individual scoring chances he was in the top three among the team. To say that this player needs to be traded is just ludicrous. It's stupid, I think. and I'm kind of tired of it. He makes $6 million per, and he's one of the 5 to 10 best wingers in hockey.

Now as for Brian Ross, I was going to get your take on this before we probably get to a commercial break. I think that might be a player that they may try to dangle. You could get a good haul for him. His cap hit is an insane bargain. Almost 30 goals in back-to-back seasons.

You could get a team that would give up a first, and I think a roster player along with it. And you don't want to give him his next contract. And I love Brian Ross. Don't get me wrong. Three and a half million per best bargain. deal in the league, gives you 27 to 30 goals a year, basically, top line player. But if you can get a first round pick, which they have not had a lot in recent years,

and Ron Hextall loves having those, plus a top nine forward, I think you do that, even though it would be very hard to trade someone like Rust. It would be very hard to trade someone like Brian Rust, but he is the type of guy. If you're an NHL GM, right, and you think your team is close or you think your team's a contender, you look at Brian Rust, and that's the type of guy that can put us over to and doesn't have a large cap. I mean, he's a bargain. It's Brian Rust, it's Sean Couturey and it's Nathan McKinnon.

Those are the three biggest bargain cap hits in the National Hockey League. Brian Russ can play on your first line. He can play on your third line. He can be on your power play. He can kill penalties. He can score 30 goals. He can block big shots, wear one in a big moment to get the boys fired up in his defensive zone.

But with all that said, I'm with you too. I would not want to be the team that would pay him his next contract because he's played a rough and tumble style of hockey. He's now closer to 30 than he is to being young. And rightfully so, he should want to cash in. This is going to be his biggest contract of his life. I mean, unless he goes on, right, to be like the next Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk or something, Hunter,

this is going to be his next contract that he signs in the NHL is going to be the maximum earning period of his life. Like, I will never tell somebody in that position to take a discount or anything like that. Man, yeah, you would hate to give up a guy like Brian Russ, but at the same time, imagine what you could get in return. That's going to be the fence to sit on this entire offseason, right? A lot of these guys, we love them, man, but you know, you've got to give to get. Yeah.

And sometimes, you know, you've got to give good players to get other good players back. And that's going to be a lot of money. Whoever gives him that next contract, that's probably a five to six year term, five to five and a half million per, and you're paying for, what, age 30 to 35? I'm just, I'm not doing that. Hard pass. Yeah. I love him. He's done so much for this franchise.

He plays his ass off every night. But I'm just, there's no way I'm doing that. No, you'd be thankful that you had him at a bargain for so long. You tell him thanks for your service and you get a nice piece in return before he walks out the door. Exactly. Yeah, that's basically, I think, the best way to put it. We still have a lot more to get to for dissecting this penguin season and looking ahead to the off season. But before we do that, coming up in the next segment, we're actually going to talk about the goalie stuff.

because yes, I know it is still a very hot topic in Penguinsland. Elliot, for you, even talked about this in his 31 thoughts. Before we do that, it's time to talk about a couple of things. One of them being Lockroom, it's the perfect place to start or join conversations about the league. You'll find fans just like you on Lockroom for watch parties, debates, post-game breakdowns, and, of course, reacting to big news and rumors. You'll have a chance to chat with me and might even have a chance to be featured

on Penguin's podcast through our Lockroom conversations. Be sure to join me this week. I'll be hosting a room. I'm thinking, honestly, as I think about it, more, you know, Thursday, Friday, Saturday. I'm not really sure what time yet, probably in the evening. Go download the free locker room app now. Are currently available on all iOS devices. Be sure to create a profile, link your Twitter, and join the NFL at NFL. Join the NHL group for the latest league updates. The NFL season is not in session right now, and I also do not do an NFL

podcast. But follow me at Hunter Hodes to be notified when my room goes live. I know you won't want to miss it. I'm planning to be live, like I said, this week, from Thursday through Saturday in the evening. I can't wait to hear everyone's thoughts on the Penguins. See you there. Lockroom changing the way we talk sports. But we also cannot forget about Bilt Bar. There's nine delicious flavors plus the occasional limited time flavor. When you talk to a Bilt Bar fan, they're definitely passionate about their favorites. If you don't know the Bilt Bar flavors, well, you are missing out. Coconut, coconut, almond, cherry, raspberry are just to name a few. My favorite one is, of course, the peanut butter brownie. If you haven't tried all the flavors, though, you can get a mixed

box where you'll get two of each of the nine flavors. Most of them have. have 17 grams of protein, only 130 calories, only 4 grams of sugar and only 4 grams of net carbs. You can go to Billbar.com and use promo code Locked15, and you'll get 15% off your first order. That's promo code Locked 15 for 15% off at Billapar.com. All right, so we're back here on this episode of the Lockdown Penguins podcast. I'm your host, Hunter Hodes. Remember to follow me on Twitter at Hunter Hodes. Follow this shows Twitter at L.O. underscore Penguins.

So, Wes, yeah, let's just talk about it. You know, the goaltending, we touched on it earlier, was not good enough in the postseason. You know, it was good for a lot of the season. I think that's being lost with some people, was that the Penguins actually for about a solid month, month and a half, had the highest all situations, save percentage combined between Trish and Jari and Casey to Smith.

So it was working. It just, it's decided to stop working at the worst possible moment. And, of course, your backup goalie gets hurt who was having a really good season. I honestly think Mike Sullivan does make a goalie change either after game one or after game five to Casey DeSmith. I think DeSmith honestly wins them game six with how the Penguins were playing, to be honest with you. But obviously, that did not happen. In my opinion, there's honestly two ways to do this this off season.

You either go out and get a full-fledged number one starter like a John Gibson or something and see what Anaheim wants, or you go out into free agency and get someone like a Peter Morazek, Linus Olmark, some of these 1A, 1B options to go with Jari. Or honestly, you could send Jari to the MRA to the MRA to, minors to work on his game and then go with DeSmith and one of those options as well. Just what do you think the penguins should do for the goal attending situation? Man, I, you know what, Hunter, I feel like goalies in the national hockey league, even for something like, I'm not, you mentioned how I have Phil Bork on my show every week.

I'm not Phil Bork, okay? I grew up playing high school hockey. I won a Penguin Cup when I was in high school in the Civic Arena, baby, all right? I still play Beer League every week, okay? I can skate. I didn't play college hockey. Nothing like that. But hockey's been my sport.

I played my entire life. It is so hard to evaluate goaltenders. Even if you fancy yourself, and I'm using air quotes here, I know this is a podcast. People can't see me. Even if you fancy yourself as a hockey guy, hockey girl, hockey person, I just feel like goaltending is always so hard to evaluate. But I will say this. I'm glad it's Ron Hextall that has to do that.

Right. Like I don't know if I have a crazy hot take for you for what I would do going into this season. I would say that I would like to have a veteran presence there along with Tristan Jarre. But as you kind of pointed out, Casey DeSmith was a, he was everything you'd want back up 10 or this, except for a little bull needed them in the playoffs. I mean, he was a fantastic number two. I'm just glad that it's Ron Hextall that has to make this decision. I really am, right? Because I think Hunter, and you know this, for the listeners that aren't aware, I'm from Pittsburgh, born and raised, but my kind of my career took me some other places. I worked in Ohio for a while, New Jersey.

I also worked in Philadelphia for almost three years. And I was in Philly when Ron Hextall got fired. Okay. I was still working in Philadelphia Sports Radio when Ron Hextall got fired. And so much of that conversation and why he was let go was because disagreements between him and the ownership and, you know, people above him about what to do with Carter Hart. You know, they wanted to rush Carter Hart through. And he said, that's not the way you do this with a young goal tender. And there was some friction there that led to some other things, and that was a big part of the reason why Ron Hextall and the Flyers parted ways. Hunter, I think Ron Hextall nailed that, right? So in his first kind of, as a GM, his first trial of goaltenders, right? His first big decision making to do with goaltenders,

goaltender evaluations, he was telling the Flyers, you got to give this guy more time. You got to give this guy more time. Yeah, I know he's doing great in juniors and all this stuff, but he is not ready for the NHL yet. I think he was proven right in that. That doesn't mean, Carter Hart can still be an outstanding goaltender one day. We hope not. We hope he stinks. We hope he's a big bust. We hope he's just average in Philadelphia.

Ron Hextall was right. In terms of Carter Hart, in terms of his development, Ron Hextall was right. He's one for one so far in terms of the goaltenders. I'm very interested to see how he feels about Tristan Jarre, what to do this off season, how that relates to Casey DeSmith, how that relates to, you know, maybe bringing in one of those veteran guys that you mentioned,

or even going out on the trade market. I will say this, though, and I never know how much stock to put into this because it's one of those, what do you expect the people to say? You know, like, are they going to trash the guy? But, man, everybody around the Penguins organization, I don't mean the players, right? Like, I'm talking people like Phil Bork and some other people that I'm fortunate enough to bump elbows with in my building and have conversations with. They all believe in Tristan Jarre, man.

Now, and again, you and I can sit here and we can scream. We can back and forth and you. We can pick one side of the art. And then we can switch. Right. You take this side. And I'll take that side. We'll do it all over again.

If Ron Hextall and Brian Barker of that sentiment, right? If they, if some of the reason why a lot of the Phil Borks of the world believe in Tristan Jarre is because those people believe in Tristan Jari, then it could all be a moot point, right? But man, do you talk about a heck of a summer to get started here for Ron Hextall, the big three decision and what to do with the goaltending? Because like you said, the goaltending was good enough this season. The man, when they needed to be, it was not. And right, that's just, that's kind of the playoffs in a nutshell. You, you got to be able to decide to take, right, the big snapshot of 56 games in an entire season versus the six real high intensity and real importance games.

And how do you balance the performance? How do you, how do you balance what you saw in the bigger sample size versus in the playoffs? I honestly, goaltenders for me are so hard to evaluate. I'd rather talk about quarterbacks. don't even like baseball. I'd rather talk about starting pitchers. They're voodoo, man. That's what they are. It's the most volatile position in the sport. I'd rather talk about Jake de Grom than talk about Tristan Jarrey, all right? And I'm not a baseball guy at all. I just, to me, it's so hard to evaluate goaltenders, hockey goaltenders.

But like I said, I keep coming back to, I'm glad that it's Ron Hextall that's in that seat right now. Yeah, I, I stoff at what Jim Rutherford would do in the situation. If he were still the general manager, you'd probably see five. He'd trade 37 first round draft picks for Mark. And Andre Fleury. Yeah. And you know, they tried to get him. You know, and then there was this idea that Elliot Friedman, he even said he was talking out of his butt on the podcast that I listened to.

Well, they can go out. Ron Hextel knows Jonathan Quick. And I'm like, Jonathan Quick, five years around seven point something million? He's been brutal for years. His goal saved above expected is like minus 12, I think, the last three years. He has been brutal. Let's go get Jordan Bennington. Like, what is this?

2018? Jordan Bennington. On top of, you know, being inconsistent, he's also a total piss baby. So, you know, I got to watch my language, of course, but I think that's good enough for what I can call. Yeah, what I can call Jordan Bennington. But yeah, I agree. I am glad that Hextall is in charge of not just, you know, the overall team, but especially the goal tanking. And, you know, I was reading something from Kurt who does stuff from the Philadelphia's SB Nation site.

And he's like, if you're looking for someone who is very patient and is probably not going to do anything after a loss like this, it's probably Ron Hexon. stall. And, you know, that brings me from the next question before we do get to the commercial break. Wes, is there any, you got any inside info for the listeners here on when him and Brian Burke are going to speak to the media? Is there anything that's going on here? Because it is a bit weird that they have not spoken to anyone yet. Buddy, they have not. And that is surprising because you know as well as I do, the good old hockey boys, right? Like Brian Burke and like Ron, they like to get their, as soon as the season's over, like give them a day or two, get their responsibilities out of the way. And then they

go off to the lakehouse, right? They go up somewhere in Canada to the lakehouse for the entire summer and disappear. That's the hockey guy way to do things. Is that going to happen? I don't know. I thought for sure that it would be today or tomorrow, right? Okay, they didn't speak on locker room clean out day. Monday's a holiday, right? Okay, maybe then because today, whatever, but we've heard nothing. I mean, if it's not this week, I don't know. I really don't know. I wonder to, if this RMU thing throws a curveball into that. That's the one caveat because there's a lot of people that have reported that the Penguins and RMU were in the middle of discussions about a partnership to expand the Penguins practice facility

to add some Robert Morris stuff there. Interesting. So maybe they're waiting for some of this to simmer down because they don't want to be asked about that. Maybe who knows, and I don't know, that could have not, the RMU situation could have absolutely nothing to do with it. but I'll tell you what, Hunter, the last three, four days here, it's surprising, but that RMU thing has dominated the attention here in Pittsburgh. It is a massive story. That's the only thing. Other than that, I have no clue because I thought for sure, you know, that I would have gotten an email from Penn's PR this morning or, you know, yesterday or something saying Ron Hextall and Brian Burke will do their end of season media availability at this time.

We've got nothing. And I haven't heard anything. So that is the only, unless they're working on something behind them. scenes unless there's something going on that we don't know, which if it was maybe going to be a coaching change, but that seems unlikely, right? I just, I don't know if it's that maybe there's just, they had, one of them had something going on. Somebody mentioned too today, you know, Brian Burke is very involved in Pride Month, mentioning that maybe he had plans to travel this week somewhere to do some engagements. And like I said, maybe the RMU thing is part of this. I don't know.

Maybe they're just waiting until the end of the NHL, or the NHL playoffs or close. or two at least free agency and offseason, but it's very surprising that those two have not spoken yet. Because like I said, normally those guys just want to get that stuff out of the way and then have the rest of the off season. Well, you know, Wes, I'm counting on you to deliver to me. I'll let you, as soon as I get that email, I'll let you know. That's the perfect.

You know, I got those inside scoops come in here for the podcast. In case anyone's not aware with what's going on with Robert Morris. I know I have some listeners in Europe. They have disbanded their hockey teams, much due the dismay of the city of Pittsburgh. The only D1 hockey program, Vends and Women's in Pittsburgh, both getting dismantled. That stinks. For basically no reason at all.

They're one of the best teams in the country. Usually, you're in and you're out. Hosted two Frozen Fours in the name of Robert Morris. They have that Three Rivers classic hockey tournament every Christmas in the name of Robert Morris. That's a garbage decision, man. I feel bad for everyone involved. And I hope, you know, hopefully bullying works in this case to somehow bring it back. Though, I did say something.

Amen. Yeah, I did be something today that that might not be the case. Though hopefully, like I said, bullying works. Still a little more to get to coming up in the final segment of this episode. But before we do that, it's time to talk about a couple things. One of them being, bed online, the fastest and easiest way to bid on all your sports action. Baseball season is in full swing. You can track all the action at BetOnline.

Get all the latest news, odds and info for all your sporting needs, including MLB, NBA and it's all your UFC action. Before the next pitch, head over to Betterline on your laptop or phone and check out all the great spory news, sound of bonuses and contest information. head to the website or use your phone to sign up today and receive a 50% off wealth of bonus on your first deposit that is better online, your online sports book experts with the promo code locked on.

Finally, we cannot forget about wealthfront stonks. Stonks memes, rocket ships. Day trading can be a lot of fun, but if you want to grow your long-term wealth and make it to the moon, you should open up a wealth-front investment account today. They can create a portfolio of globally diversify low-cost index funds personalized just for you in minutes. No manual trades, no picking,

stocks, no watching the stock market every day. They automatically handle all the investing based on preferences. You control. They are trusted with over $20 billion of assets and you can get your first $5,000 managed for free by going to Wealthfront.com slash locked on NHL. To get your first $5,000 managed for free for life, go to Wealthfront.com slash locked on NHL. That's Wealthfront.com to start going to your savings. One more time, everyone, Wealthfront.com slash locked on HL and get started today. All right, so we're back here on this episode of the Lockdown Penguins podcast. I'm your host, Hunter Hodes.

Remember to follow me on Twitter at Hunter Hodes, follow this show's Twitter at L.O. underscore Penguins. Got to ask you a couple more things here, Wes. So defensively, yeah, he's always ready for all the questions here. Defensively, definitely think you might see some changes there. It would not surprise me if they do decide to dangle Marcus Pedersen and maybe move P.O. Joseph up full-time. I think he's just about ready. He showed it earlier in the season before going up to a pairing with Chris.

Russell Tang, wasn't ready for that. Not a lot of people are. Brian Dumlin is one of a kind, of course, as are a couple other defensemen in this league. But I think that's a move they should make. And then if you can somehow find a way to get rid of Mike Matheson's contract, even though I think Matheson played well down the stretch. Don't give me wrong.

I agree. I still think you would be hard-pressed not to do it. And then Jason Zucker also makes a lot of money. And I love Zucker, man. My nice Jewish boy, as I like to call him, fellow Jew here, of course, that does the podcast. and he plays his tail off, but it just, I don't know if it's working out here, and we're going to have to find out if Hexel and Burke want to keep him here for a couple of years.

Do you see any changes being made with any of those players? Buddy, I think he kind of nailed it there. There is, I would be shocked if all three of those guys are back next season. You're absolutely right. POJ, barring a disaster of a training camp or, you know, an act of God or something this offseason, he's going to be with the Pittsburgh Penguins as one of their six defensemen next year. We already know they had a lot of capable guys, right? I mean, they had eight, nine guys that you would have been comfortable with playing games this season on the back end.

Now, Cody C.C. seemingly is probably going to cash in, right? I don't think the penguins are going to be the ones for that. They don't have the money. He's another one, kind of like Brian Rust, right? You had him in a bargain. You tell him thanks for your service, but you let somebody else overpay, overpay for their have Chabarweedle ready to step in for them. Exactly.

But I think you're right. Matheson, Pedersen, right? We can talk about their games and there's good there and there's bad there. But financial flexibility in a salary cap league, particularly during pandemics, right, where salary caps are plateauing, if not going down. Financial flexibility is everything. I think they would like to get one of Matheson and Pedersen and maybe Jason Zucker as well, too, off the books. that to me is really, yeah, we've talked about the core and we've talked about the goal tending, Hunter.

And I think there's a lot of questions there that can only be answered in another year, right? You know, Malk and Littang, are they still good enough? Well, we're not going to know until we know. Tristan Jaree, can he be the guy for this team? Can he win playoff series? We're not going to know until we know. With the back end, though, I think that's a little different. I think there is, and you and I, this is another one of those, right?

We could sit here and we could do a whole episode on this. We could go back and forth talking about heavy hockey, right, talking about all these things and the way that the game was played in the regular season versus the postseason and how the refs officiate and how the whistles go away and da-da-da-da-da. And what you need and what you're and Brian Ross and Jake Gunz. Like we could do that whole thing. But I think everyone can agree that, man, you got to have some Sam paper. You got to have some tenacity in front of your own net, right?

Yes, you have to have guys that can skate and move the puck and break the puck out as well too. the penguins have done a great job of that. But man, buddy, it just feels like last year, this year, if you're like in that five-by-five box in front of the crease, I mean, just don't kill somebody and you're good. I mean, you saw it last night, both, not McAvoy, it was another one of the Bruins defensemen, but it doesn't matter, I'm drawn a blank.

But there was like a sequence in that game between the Islanders and the Bruins, like two or three minutes apart where one Islander was trying to take a Bruins head off in front of the net, Bruin was trying to take the aisle. I mean, and we see it with Crosby all the time, right, getting cross-checked in the head by everybody. I just, I would like to see. And you know, I'm not one of those like,

you got to get heavy. Go out and bring me Milan-Lukeech and bring me Nick Folino and bring me Wayne Simmons. But you know what, Hunter, they don't really have any defensemen that can play with some friction in front of the crease. You know what I mean? Like, they do have a lot of puck movers

and guys that can break out the puck, and you certainly need that. But I think you need some guys that can play with some tenacity in front of your own net, too, because that's just the liberties that the league allows you to take this time a year, particularly in the postseason. Marino, Pedersen, Latang, Dumlin, Matheson, even POJ, right? We think CC's going to be gone. Even POJ, they're not the most physical guys.

And that doesn't mean it has to be Eric Gabranson, right? But I wouldn't be surprised if they added a little sandpaper on the back end. You know, is somebody who, again, not is, you know, not Ulf Samuelson. Make sure they can play is my big thing. Make sure they can. Yes. But somebody who is willing, just willing to engage in front of the crease a little bit, you know? And I think some of that, too, when it wasn't Chris LaTang pushing the Islanders into Tristan Jari, those guys, you could see other teams know too.

You know what I mean? The penguins just don't play that way. And that's fine. I don't want the penguins to play that way. but if they had a little bit of that element to their game, right, that wouldn't be the worst thing. I think that's the balance. I don't want the penguins to turn into some big, loafing, heavy hockey team. Like I said, try and go out and get a bunch of Wayne Simmons and Milan Luchich and Nick Folino and guys like that.

But if you could find, you know, the one or two guys that are the balance of, man, they can play, but they got some sandpaper to their game. You know, they'll score the game winning goal and they'll also punch you in the face if they have to. You know, maybe Scott Mayfield type. You know what I mean? Like, I think on the back end, and I know you're making that face. I know, though, over the last two years, he has really impressed me. Like, I thought that he was just a goon who couldn't play.

He scored a pretty nice goal against the Penguins. And maybe that's just a recency bias example. He was mainly doing that against Evgeny Malkin almost every shift, just like crotch-tecking him in the back. And he's punching Jason Zucker in the chin after the whistle, and he's scoring big goals. Like, again, I don't love, like, I don't want. hockey to, you know, like I'd say this all the time. You come on my show on the SPM Pittsburgh. I don't like the old time hockey, the, the Bobby Clark breaking people's ankles out there, you know, with hacks. Like, that's not the style of game that I want the NHL to be. But I think at the same time, there is a balance there. That's what we can all agree on. It doesn't have to be Jake Gensel and Brian Ruster too soft and you've got to move them out and you've got to bring in the Kachuk brothers and yeah, here we go, right? Let's get ready to rumble. It doesn't have to be that. But I think you can look at it objectively and say too, man, like, they could just use a little punchback, right? Like they could just use a little punchback.

And there's a lot of different ways to get that. It doesn't just have to be the Eric Gransons. It doesn't just have to be the Ryan Reeves. There's guys out there that, like I said, can score a game winning goal and can also punch you in the face. And maybe the Penguins need one or two of those guys. It's just hard to find those kind of players. It's so hard. They're overpaid.

Like Matthew Chachuk. Like, is Calgary really going to move him? Probably not. They have short shelf lives, right? Like a guy like Milan Luchich and Wayne Simmons. Like, look how quick those guys fell off a cliff when they got longer in the tooth. Even Tom Wilson, who, yes, is probably the dirtiest player in hockey. But, you know, all the hockey man would love.

Nazim Codry might like a word, but he's on the short list. Yeah, he's up there too. But, you know, all the hockey men would love to have Tom Wilson clones that are not, you know, as dirty as him. You know, that play the way he plays. Like, when he's not being an idiot, he actually is a very good player. And like that. Oh, people,

I mean, he's scored some big goals against the penguins. Yes. He scored a game winning goal against the penguins this season. He did. Yeah.

That is like, like how Milan Luchich was in 2011 for the Bruins, right? Like how prime Wayne Simmons was. That's the dream to get for the Penguins. Yeah. That guy who plays on the edge,

can play on your first line, can play on your third line, can be on the power play, can kill penalties. I just keep coming back of this hunter too. I don't know what. Can score the game winning goal and can also punch you in the face.

Those guys are hard to fly. Those guys are hard to find. You quite often have to overpay for them because there's not many of them unless you draft them and develop them yourself. And like I said, they tend to hit age 30 and fall off a cliff pretty quick. Absolutely. You know what? If you really are trying to take this core and make one more run at it, like I said, you know, a guy like that, I don't think would be the worst thing. If you can blend some of the underlying numbers and the production with some tenacity, I mean, that's, that's.

That is maybe, you know, other than a competent goal tender, that's maybe the one thing that Penguins lack. I'll take it, man. You know, as long as they can play and, you know, you're sure that you want to punch them in the face. Like Brandon Tanev, but like four inches taller and 20 pounds, 30 pounds heavier. And maybe like a 20 goal score or something like that. They got that too. Give me the Kachup brothers, brother.

Yeah, Ottawa ain't moving up, Brady. And I'm sure Calgary is not moving. And if one more person says Gensel for Kachuk. Chuck. I'm going to, oh my good. I'm going to be like John Claude Van Dam. And I look at my iceberg suit with a pistol. Yeah. From the movie when it just goes into sudden death. Yeah. The melon, the melon. They basically blow up melon arena. That's just, that's great. But yeah, I mean, at first when I saw that, I was like, okay, you know, maybe it's not as bad. Then I saw the underlying numbers. I'm like, yeah, I'll pass.

No chance. And so that's, that's the key, right? Like, it's, it doesn't need to be some massive turn to let's go out and get a bunch of big bodies and a bunch of grit. Absolutely not. That's not how you make the playoffs. That's not how you sustain long-term success. And that's just not the Penguins way. Certain franchises, right? Certain teams have DNA, right?

I mean, the Pittsburgh Steelers always want to play good defense, right? It's just part of the DNA. The Pittsburgh Penguins want to score goals. They want to light it up. They want to play entertaining flashy hockey. I think that's why so many people love. the penguins that aren't from Pittsburgh. You want to keep that.

But I think you can do that, right? And maybe just add one or two guys that are maybe more suited, you know, to play hockey this time of year. Yeah, I think that's totally fine. You honestly hit the nail on the head there. I'd be probably fine with adding one of those players. Like I said, you know, as long as they have skill, you know, it's not just some Brian Burke trucker ones or something like that. And again, the penguins have some entice. I don't think it would be like you'd have to go crazy.

I mean, they've got some entice. Brian Russ. We talked about Jason Zucker. We talked about some guys on the back end. I mean, the Penguins, they don't have a lot in terms of young assets and draft picks, but to help the team right now. Have some good players to move out. There's moves there to be made. And don't you worry, I think, I think Hextoll and Burke are going to make some. Oh, yeah. The old boys club will never seem to disappoint here. Last thing, before I let you go, West is a little bit of a twofer here real quick. The people that thought Mike Sullivan should be fired, stop. I don't really know why. And now I will say this. I talked about this on my podcast last week.

If they do have a bad year and they miss the playoffs or then our first round exit again, okay, maybe it's time it would move on. I totally could see that. Maybe Mike Sullivan wants a fresh start. But right now, you saw what he did in this season. He was brought in by goal tending. I'm sure your thoughts are the same as me.

Bringing back Mike Sullivan is the right call. And also, buddy, are we doing that new New Eastern kickoff, West Virginia, Virginia Tech? All right. So Mike Sullivan first. Yeah, I would absolutely bring him back. Listen, it's another one of those, like I kind of just talked about, certain franchises have weird things in their DNA.

The penguins have a weird thing in their DNA of firing head coaches and winning the Stanley Cup, right? So I get why a lot of the Penguins fans are like, oh, yeah, oh, it's firemen, and then we'll just there. Here we go, new voice will come in and we'll win the Stanley Cup. Like, I get it, right? But just because it's worked out for the penguins in that regard of the past, doesn't mean it's going to be that easy going forward.

I think that's a warning with Mike Tomlin and the Steelers, right? If people are like, well, the Steelers, three for their last three, they've replaced head coaches and they've done a great job. Yeah. But that's also been like three times in the last 50 years. And that doesn't mean that they're going to go four for four if they were to kick Mike Tomlin out, right? If the season starts, Hunter, and it's clear that there's some staleness with the message, right, that the locker room just doesn't seem to be clicking and doesn't seem to be buying it.

for whatever reason that would happen, then I'd say, okay, maybe short's just, it's one of those hockey things, right? New voice, time for a change. But I have not seen any of it. In fact, I've seen the opposite. Mike Sullivan has never lost a team. No, he's not.

In the face of all kinds of setbacks this season in the month of March, Penguins played arguably their best hockey. They played 16 games in like 28 days with half of their regular forwards out of the lineup. And they lost two games, I think, in regular games. winning that that entire time but this is a team that buys into what that that's a big thing for me

with coaches too um do they ever lose their locker room do they ever lose the team like that was a big thing for me with mike tomlin two years ago you know what i mean the year that ben went down my tomlin okay maybe week 17 in the rain in baltimore but mike tomlin never lost that team i mean they were eight and five they were gunning for a playoff spot despite having a duck at quarterback in the backfield um i think you see some of that with mike sullivan too he he never loses this club from the day that he's walked into Pittsburgh driven into Pittsburgh whatever in 2015 I think he has commanded the attention of that locker room would have been December of 2015 I think he has commanded the attention of that locker room he has never lost those guys and so

hunter like I said if if we get 20 30 games into the season and it looks like there's a lack of dacical attitude out there and things like that right then maybe I'd be singing a different tune but for now, look, he's lost three playoff series in the last four years to Barry Trots. I mean, it sucks, it does. He also won two in a row against Barry. He's lost four straight playoff series now, right? But he's also won nine in a row when he first got here to Pittsburgh. He's kind of like we were talking about the core, right?

Like I think Mike Sullivan, obviously Crosby's kind of like an outlier in this conversation. But Mike Sullivan, Evgeny Malkin, Chris Latang, Brian Dumlin, like, I'm. I think these guys have earned the right to make another run of this thing with, obviously, some tweaks around it. Absolutely. But I also think, too, throughout the season, I think you saw Todd Reardon's influence really start to permeate this team now with, because let's not forget, they had like a week of training camp.

And other than that pause in February, when the devils had the COVID issues and the pens got like four or five days off, I mean, Hunter, they were almost like a baseball team this year. You know what I mean? Like, they didn't practice. Like, that's one of those things, like MLB teams, once the season, that's why they have a two-month spring training is because once the season starts,

they're playing six games a week. They don't practice. Like that was kind of like the pain. You're playing three, four games a week in this truncated season. There's no time to practice. It's like game, day off the rest. Game, day off the rest, travel.

You know what I mean? Like you got like some morning skates and some things like that. But I think as the season went along too, you really started to see Reardon's influence start to permeate the roster, the special teams and the defensive play as well too. I would, again,

if we're sitting here this time next year and we're still disappointed and it was another early exit, then let's talk about that DefCon 1 button. But for now, I just, I don't think that's the way to have success in the playoffs next year. And everyone just takes it for granted too, right? Because 15 straight years, you've got to get to the playoffs first before you can have a disappointing first round exit, right? That's not to be missed either in this conversation. I think Mike Sullivan provides a lot of, a lot of security in that regard. I have no issues, no reservations with him being at the helm, being a bench boss when things get going here later on in this year.

Yeah, I don't either. I think he's earned his right to be here at least from another season. I've argued on this podcast that he's arguably the best coach in the franchise's history. Next to Bauer Bob Johnson, it's honestly a 1A1B. Lastly, West, just a couple more minutes, just one more, two more minutes or something like that. We do in this VT West Virginia thing. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry. Listen, buddy, I'm a WVU football season ticket holder, all right?

So I'm going to be there. I'll be in the blue lot. You got my phone number. Yeah. But yeah, no, man. Obviously, I would imagine a lot of your maroon-clad brethren will be making their way to Morgantown. You know, first season back after the pandemic year last year. It's going to be jumping.

It's in early September. I would imagine the weather, you know, it'll be 88 degrees outside and just gorgeous. So, buddy, you are always welcoming Morgantown on a game day. Like I said, you got my number. You know where to get at me. But yeah, I'm season ticket holder, baby. So I have had September 18th against the Hokies circled on my calendar. First time in 17 years, you guys will be coming to Morgantown.

So, yeah, it's going to be a lot of fun. I'm looking forward to it. Good weather, all that stuff. Crowd should be jumping, especially after, you know, missing out on it next year. So, hey, yeah, if you're willing to come to Morgantown on a game day, yeah, we'll have you. You'll play the country roads. I'm sure VT, with all the fans, we'll just,

Only if we win, though. See, that's the thing. Only if we win. You still got to hear Enter Sandman, though, if they come out to that, but they probably won't allow them to do that on the road. I got my share of Inter Sandman at FedEx Field in, like, 2016 or whatever that was. That was a fun game. That was a cool.

Like the split stadium, the atmosphere, that was a lot of fun. I was a sophomore, I think. 2017, I think, that year. Yeah, I was a sophomore when they played that game. I was just watching first years because 2018, that was the one in Florida. And I was the, I was a junior that year. So I just had them mixed up. But yeah.

No, buddy, I'm, I'm looking forward to it, man. And like I said, I'm, I'm there for every game tailgating. So if you make your way to Morgan Town, you just holler at me. Oh, you absolutely, man. And, you know, maybe the ghost of Michael Vic will come in there and haunt the. Oh, whoa, just take it. Maybe the ghost of Marcus Vic and will smoke you guys. Yeah.

Yeah. It just stinks that it's a noon kickoff. Like, 3.30 would have been so perfect. 3.30, I think, is honestly the perfect. Although I saw it. is still, it's like subject to flex. So let's, let's say this. WVU take care of business first two games.

You guys take care of business first two games. Maybe if both teams are two and oh, maybe it will get pushed to 3.30 or nighttime or something. But let's, let's take care of that business and see. And on the off chance that game day comes, that would be something else, but probably not. But, you know, I'll still try to be there no matter what. Wes, thank you so much for coming on today.

I very much appreciate it. Where can everyone find you, man? plug all your stuff. Yeah, absolutely. On Twitter at Wesley Euler, I do a show for ESPN, Pittsburgh, for 970 ESPN and for the Steelers Radio Network. So if you're listening to this and you're just a Penguins person, heavy, heavy penguins talk on the ESPN show this offseason. You can catch me there at 2 o'clock. 970 a.m. if you're in your car in Pittsburgh, if you're on iHeart app, IHeart website, just search ESPN Pittsburgh or 970 ESPN. I follow up Stan Savarin there at 2 o'clock. And then I do a show at noon on Tuesdays and Thursdays with Arthur Motes as well, too, on the Steelers Network, Steelers Blitz, with the former Steelers and Bill's linebacker Arthur Motes.

That's noon on Tuesdays and Thursdays. So if you're a all-around Pittsburgh sports fan and you're a Steelers junkie as well, too, you can get me there. You can subscribe to the podcasts or listen live. You know, we do all that good stuff. And make sure you're checking out Hunter on Wednesdays on ESPN Pittsburgh as well. Yes, of course. I'm sure I will be, I'm sure he'll send me a text the next time he wants me on. You know what? We want to do this. Let's do this now. You want to be on the show tomorrow? Yeah, there you go.

Today, right? Technically, because when this is there, I'll book you for today. Technically, technically, he's asking me to be on the show today, everyone, not tomorrow. That's right. That's right. Yes. I'll talk to you later today. Yes, exactly. Yes. I will literally be on there. Sometime in the afternoon, I'm sure for some good Penguins talk. But again, Wes, Thank you so much. I very much appreciate it. And thank you all for listening to this episode of Lockdown Penguins podcast. We'll another episode on Thursday. So I'll talk to you all then.