Locked On Penguins - Daily Podcast On The Pittsburgh Penguins - Josh Yohe is back to touch on ALL things Penguins!

Episode Date: February 1, 2023

As promised, Wednesday is Josh Yohe day! Hunter welcomes Josh back to the program and they first touch on the Penguins' first half of the regular season. Hunter gets Josh's thoughts on what went right vs what went wrong and how this team has been very streaky this season. He also brings up the power play and how it needs to be a lot better going forward because it looks like a unit that's not coached well. Hunter then brings up the recent Islanders trade and the two discuss Ron Hextall and how it's time for him to make a move. Josh brings up how he's definitely trying and what he expects the move to look like. He also does throw some cold water on the Thatcher Demko stuff and why he doesn't see a move being made there. Josh then looks at a player like Ivan Barbashev and how he would make a ton of sense for this team, especially in a third-line role. They also discuss if Ron Hextall will be back next season, plus what would need to happen to get him and the rest of the front office out as the new ownership group could want their own guys. Finally, the two look at the second half of the season and what needs to change in order for the Penguins to extend the league's longest playoff streak.Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!Built BarBuilt Bar is a protein bar that tastes like a candy bar. Go to builtbar.com and use promo code “LOCKEDON15,” and you’ll get 15% off your next order.Athletic GreensTo make it easy, Athletic Greens is going to give you a FREE 1-year supply of immune-supporting Vitamin D AND 5 FREE travel packs with your first purchase. All you have to do is visit athleticgreens.com/NHLNETWORKFanDuelMake Every Moment More. Place your first FIVE DOLLAR bet to get ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY DOLLARS in Free Bets – win or lose! Visit Fanduel.com/LockedOn today to get startedFANDUEL DISCLAIMER: 21+ in select states. First online real money wager only. Bonus issued as non-withdrawable free bets that expire in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG (CO, IA, MD, MI, NJ, PA, IL, VA, WV), 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (WY, KS) or visit ksgamblinghelp.com (KS), 1-877-770-STOP (LA), 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

At long last, Josh Yowie of the Athletic is here to talk all things related to the Pittsburgh Penguins, including his thoughts on the first half of the season as a whole, some trade talk, so much of that, plus a lot more coming up for today's episode of the Locked-on Penguins podcast. You're Locked-on Penguins. Your daily podcast on the Pittsburgh Penguins. Part of the Locked-on Podcast Network. Your team every day. Hello and welcome back to another episode of the Lockdown Penguins podcast.

I'm your host, Homer Hodes. Remember to follow me on Twitter at Homer Hodes, follow the shows, Twitter, at L-Oers for Penguins. And of course, thank you all so much for making this your first list another day. This episode is brought to by Fandul Sportsbook, the official sportsbook of Lockdown. Make every moment more. You can visit Fandole.com slash Lockdown today to get started. As, well, as teased, I should say, in my intro.

Josh Yowie from The Athletic is here to talk. all things related to the Pittsburgh Penguins. It's great to have you back on the show. And I think we'll be doing a lot more of this in the future, but I'm not allowed to talk about that just yet. But Josh, let's just get right into it here. First half of the season is, well, this is the unofficial halfway point. The official halfway point was about, I think, a week or two ago.

Penguins find themselves in the final playoff spot right now. If the playoffs start right now, they will be on a runaway train to go play the Boston ruins in the first round, Buffalo Sabers at one point behind them. what do you make of the first half of the season as a whole well hello hunter thank you for having me back on the finest podcast of the mall um i i don't know mike sullivan likes to use the word volatility there's a lot of volatility in our game i have the worst boston accent ever so i won't do that again for your listeners um i would agree with him i think in general it's been a disappointing season. Maybe not quite the disastrous one that we make it out to be at times. But the fact is when

you bring everyone back and when you sign Raquel and you sign Russ to go along with Latang and Malc and the expectations were to have a championship caliber team. And they don't look like one right now. They are a team with a lot of flaws. They are a team that, you know, frankly, if they failed to make the playoffs, I don't think any of us would be shocked. Maybe it would be. Maybe a a little surprised. I don't think shocked at this point. They have obvious flaws and they are maddening to watch. I actually wrote about this the other day, Hunter. A lot of people will say, well, they're too old. Of course they can't win a championship. Why would you think they're a championship team? And I will counter that by saying, the old guys don't really look old. This is a team

that loses games because of the mistakes that it makes. And they are mistakes. stakes that a youthful team would normally make. How many games have they lost this season because of a bad line change or because of just failing to recognize simple defensive zone coverages? Stuff like that, you wouldn't expect an old team to do that kind of stuff. So it's not an easy team to figure out. I'm fascinated to see how the next couple of months unfold. But I can't say that it's been a good start. No, it definitely has it. And you know, you make a great point with, you know, the defensive zone lapses and the line changes. You know, I throw goaltending in there a little bit as well just because I don't think

Casey DeSmith has been that good this season either. And, you know, the decision to run back that tandem for the third year in a row, definitely, you know, it was a risk going into the second year. And then they doubled down on it going into this year. And, you know, I think they're slowly starting to pay the price a little bit right now. I was going to ask you about, you know, this is the elephant in the brim, Josh, the bottom six. just it's just a tire fire, I think, to be honest. The fourth line, it looks like they have something cooking at times.

I like what Drew O'Connor is bringing on a nightly basis right now. Ryan Paling has come back and his numbers have actually not been too bad. I would say Josh Archibald, I think is going to help that as well. He at least scores on that line. But the third line is the bread and butter for how they can be a cup contender. We've seen it in 2009, 2016 and 2017. And even before then when, you know, they had some really good teams. and some of their third lines were not bad.

Heck, I look at the 2012 team as a team that could have won it all, but that got screwed up over by goaltending. Just how much of a failure do you think it is from Ron Hacksaw with constructing this third line going to this season because this team used to have one of the best third lines in hockey and probably one of the best bottom sixes as a whole. Right before Jen Rutherford resigned, and in the two years since,

he has just completely disbanded it and has probably made one of the worst bottom sixes in the league, at least third line. wise. Yeah, they have enough players to have a perfectly competent fourth line. Like you mentioned Ryan Palin. I kind of like him, actually. I think there's something there. If we remove, you know, the fact that he was a first round pick, sometimes you have to get that out of your head, because players will feel like disappointments. Well, he's a first round pick. He should be a, you know, a certain kind of player. Well, pretend Ryan Palin was a fourth round pick. And you might say,

you know what? He's not bad. He can do some things. Archibald in the first couple of months before he was hurt was a pleasant surprise, I think. And I still like Drew O'Connor. I think there's something there. So, yeah, they have the bodies to put together a fourth line that can play you eight to ten minutes a night and do some good things. The third line, however, I don't even think they really have one. I mean, it's to the point where the third line, the last few games, was just Mike Sullivan taking the guys who were playing like crap and putting them together so that they couldn't affect the other three lines. That's basically what it's coming down to. We can start with Jeff Carter. Listen, we know the contract is a bad one, and I think anybody who watches him play can very

clearly see that he just got old in a hurry. And usually when that happens, that's irreversible. I don't know that the hands are coming back or that the legs are coming back, and it's a huge problem. And you know who I think is just as big of a problem right now? It's easy to blame and I get it. Teddy Bluger, you know, this is a guy I've always liked, a good two-way player who was at least a really good fourth-line center, if not maybe a guy who could potentially be a third-line center. Teddy Bluger broke his jaw about a year ago. Since then, including the playoffs, he has one goal in 66 games. I don't know if it's injury related. The broken jaw is a, that's a nasty injury.

A lot of guys have trouble coming back from that. I don't know if it was that. I don't know if it was Zach Asternice being traded. Those two are really good together for a long time. Brandon Tann have two. Yeah, you're right. Whatever the case may be, Teddy Blugher's not the same player. Jeff Carter's not the same player.

Brock McGinn has 10 goals. That's great. Does anybody really think that was sustainable? Do you really notice him otherwise contributing positive things? No, he's just a guy. Casbury Capitan, I actually think, has been a little better before the injuries in recent games. You certainly notice him with the speed. I do think he was going to the net more, but let's not act like he hasn't been a disaster because he has been.

So those are your candidates for the third line or Danton Heinen, who scores a goal like once every two months. And I don't know. Everyone wants to see Ron Hextall make a move. Hell, I want to see Ron Hextall make a move. It's a team that badly needs one, but I don't even know if one move could alter. this bottom six to the place where you would only say that it wasn't an abject failure. It's just a gigantic problem.

And the burden that it puts on Crosby and Malkin to be great every single night at their ages, it's a lot to ask. Yeah, I mean, I said to my Tuesday episode, Josh, it's very similar to the teams that were built. I felt like in 2013-14, 2014, 15, the end of the Ray Shiro days where it was all on the top six to score. you had guys in the fourth line like Zach Sil, Joe Vitale Marcel Gotts.

Marcel Gotts. Yeah, Maxime LaPierre. Oh, God. He, I mean, at least he was a funny dude to watch, but he couldn't save his life. You know, Brian Gibbons who, you know, okay, a little

not bad at times. I know people loved, here's an OG name, Bobby Farnum, people loved that guy. Yeah. You know, but those are the kind of guys that were in your bottom six there, Brandon Sutter.

I'll even throw in there. I don't really think he scored that often, but he was fine for what he was. Well, and the point is, Hunter, these are all guys who don't have Stanley Cup rings. No. Never even sniffed one, in fact. That's also true, yeah. You know, it put a lot of pressure on the core when they were a lot younger, and now when they're a lot older, but they can still produce, it still puts even more pressure on them. And I definitely agree with you, Josh.

I don't understand why people are so quick to blame the core. It's so weird. I understand the best players They're going to get some of the scrutiny just because they're your best players But I saw you wrote in your article Cindy Crosby's on pace for 100 points Evgeny Malkin is at a point per game this season

Oh is Vince Trochecker Andrew Cop at that pace? No Chris LaTang He's been through hell and back this season But I would still rather have him As my number one defenseman at $6 million per Over anyone that signed this past off season so you know

Ricard Raquel's been great Brian Rust you can argue has not been that good. Jake Gensel's been up and down, but most of the core players have been awesome this year. It's just the outer edges of the lineup where I think Hextall has really screwed them these last couple of years,

and he kind of has them in a spot where, you know, this is the first time in my, you know, I started watching this team a little bit before Crosby came. I was a little kid at the time, but for as long as I can remember, this is probably the most scared I've been in terms of this teammate. the playoffs. I can't, even back in 2014-15, when it came down to the final game, Josh, I think.

I wasn't scared about them winning that game. They were playing at the head no-one Sabres team. It was Brandon Sutter with both goals in that game. Yeah, Buffalo, in fact, that team was collapsing, no question. And that, of course, if you're looking to be an optimist, the one good thing is that team was coached by Mike Johnston. And this team has Mike Sullivan. And you can certainly argue with some of the decisions Sullivan has made this season. I don't agree with everything he's done, but I still think he's a great coach. But yeah, there's no question, Hunter.

The penguins, I would take it back to Crosby's second season, which was Malkin's first season, the 0-607 campaign when they made the playoffs for the first time in the Crosby era. Going all the way back to that point, which is, you know, what, 15, 16 years now, this is the most vulnerable the penguins have felt to me. And it's not just one thing, right? You mentioned the bottom six. It's a disaster.

Power plays awful. Crosby and Malkin have been healthy. They've played at every game. Is that going to hold up? Like at their ages, in the number of minutes they're playing, that's a concern. It absolutely is. Is Tristan Jari going to stay healthy?

If he is going to miss any more time, in case you to Smith stop anything, yeah, that's a lot of questions. And the blue line has its question marks as well. So going back to what you were saying, though, I don't blame the core. Crosby's still one of the best players in the league. He's still a dominant player. Malkin of the big three, I think you can see age showing up with him more than anyone else.

But he's on pace for 84 points. I can't give him too hard of a time, and he's been really good lately. I think Malkin in the last two or three weeks has been outstanding. Latang, he stunk in October or November. We all know it. He was dealing with health problems that are not common. And, you know, I don't know if he was having symptoms before the stroke. That's only between Chris and his doctors.

And I hate to speculate. But I can tell you, there are people in the organization who think, you know what, there was something going on with him. He was not himself. And I think he's been pretty good since he returned to the lineup since the I really do. I think he's playing more at the level of work. Dustin, who Crystal Tying playing at.

So I'm not going to blame those three. Raquel's been great. Zoker's been great. Rust hasn't been himself. Gensel hasn't been himself, but they're still good players. Like, they're not the problem. The problem is, you know, those six other forwards, right? That's the problem.

And, you know, you got two or three defensemen that you just don't know about. That's tough because the Penguins are playing in the Metropolitan Division. and that division, I don't need to tell any of your other people watching or listening. That division is a nightmare. It's the best division in hockey. The Eastern Conference is scary. There are 10 or 11 legitimately good teams in the East. Not everybody's going to get in.

So, yeah, the penguins are vulnerable, no question. Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think all of this is to say that, you know, the general manager probably needs to do something sooner or later. Heck, Loua Amarillo just made a trade. And they're behind the penguins right now. They're not waving the white flag at all. You know, we're going to touch on that coming up right after this commercial break. But before we get to that, this year, the only app you need at your Super Bowl party is Fandul, America's number one sports book.

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We're back here on this episode of the Lockdown Penguins podcast. I'm your host, Honohotees. Got a Josh Joey to my right. So Josh, the trade market kicked off in a big way. this week, the Vancouver Canucks started their fire sale or their major surgery. I actually, Rutherford, said he's also not going to be talking about the team much anymore because he even said at this media conference that he spoke too much, which I think he's done throughout his career.

You know, they send Bo Hortbat to the Islanders for Anthony Bovillier, Arturati, and then a first round pick. Josh, you know, have you heard any rumblings about the penguins and potential trades? I read, I think, I think it was yesterday that Dave Monaria, Pittsburgh Hockey Now said that Brian Burke, he spoke to Brian Burke, who said that Hextall is working on it, is trying to work on something. What is the latest that you've heard

with regards to the GM and trying to figure something out with the trade? Well, first of all, I'm glad Jim Rutherford likes to talk because it's made me a lot of money over the years. So keep talking away, Jim. I should just call Jim and say, hey, you don't want to talk about your Canucks? Fine.

Let's talk about some other stuff, Jim, because Jim likes to talk. Well, first of all, that was a very interesting trade. I thought the Islanders gave up a lot. for a rental. I give them credit for being aggressive. I wonder if that will come back to haunt them. I don't know. I think Bo Horvats a really good player. I don't know that he's a great player. But they needed offense badly. So you're going to go with him and Barzell down the middle now. That's pretty good. That changes things for the islanders, no question. As for the penguins,

I don't think anything is imminent. My guess is they will make a trade at some point before the deadline. I don't know that it will be of the blockbuster variety. I think anything's possible. Ron Hextal's human. He knows what people are saying about him. He knows people are making jokes about, oh, is Ron awake or what's going on? I suspect because of that pressure

and because the Fenway Sports Group has made it pretty clear they wish to win, he's going to try to do something before the deadline. He does have problems, some of which are his own doing. half of his roster has a no trade clause. So it's not easy just to snap your fingers and whip up a trade if you're Hextall. Obviously, there's the cap to deal with as well. My sense is he will add a forward at some point before the deadline. I think they are aware of the glaring weakness they have in the bottom six.

I do think they'll try to bring someone in. Hextall does not like to trade first round picks. I would be surprised if he were to do that, especially in a draft, as good as this one coming up. And I'm not just talking Connor Bidar, this whole draft from every scout I've talked to is apparently just loaded with talent. So they don't really want to trade that pick.

I think Hunter, whatever the Penguins do in February is going to be very telling. They have a nasty schedule coming up. You start the second half of Colorado. Then you go to California, which I know two of those teams stink, but they gave the Penguins fits recently. That's still not an easy trip.

Then you go to Long Island. Then you play the Devils the next night at home. All right. Then you got the Islanders again. Then you got to go to St. Louis and you get Tampa the next night at home. Then you got to go to Nashville and Tampa and Florida. It's a brutal stretch of schedule. If the penguins flounder during this month, it wouldn't shock me if Ron Hextall says,

you know what? I don't think it's worth giving up assets. We are not a cup team. But say Jari gets healthy. say they rip through California and win a couple of big divisional games and have themselves firmly in a playoff spot three weeks from now.

We're on next to go make a move. Yeah, I suspect that he will. So I think he's feeling the pressure to do something and I think that he will. Just how big of a move it will be, boy, I know everybody wants to trade Dumlin and Capitan to some crap team for all their best players that's not going to happen, but I think they will do something.

Yeah, I mean, they kind of have, I mean, they kind of have to. The third line and center spot, I think is probably the biggest weakness on the roster right now. It's just, you know, how many centers are truly available. You know, I had my big board a little bit last night, John Schmoin Tuesday episode, and I, you know, I circled the St. Louis Blues because that's a team right now that I think they're out of it. The past is not good for them.

I circled Ryan O'Reilly, makes a lot of money. They would have to retain, still can play like him. I circled Ivan Barbashev. I think he's a good player that could play in the bottom six. So in that, I think, makes a lot of sense for Brian Burke and Ron Hexall. I think he's the type of player that they would go after. You know, if you want to talk more pipe dreams, you can look at Vladimir Tarasanko, but I don't think they're going to get him.

He's probably, you know. Well, I hear apparently Barbashev's available. That's the word. I can tell when he was with the Rangers a couple of years ago, I think that was the COVID season when he had a really good year for them. Every time the Penguins played them and it was like eight times that year, right, because of the schedule. I thought he was their best player almost every game. I was like, who is this guy?

He's really talented. I don't think he really fits in. He's a skilled guy. I don't think he fits in with how the blues play. The blues are a little, you know, old-fashioned, if you will. They like their heavy hockey. There's not very good right now, but he's a guy that would be interesting. And, you know, everyone's going to talk about the bottom six.

there's a lot of ways you can look at it though. If you can get a top six guy, a guy who has a real high school level that maybe could play with Amalkin, for instance, there's nothing wrong with sliding Brian Russ down to the third line, for instance. Or even Jason Zook or whoever. I use Russ because, you know, he got paid.

He's happy. His ego is not going to take a blow if you put him in the bottom six for a season. And Brian Rust, yeah, maybe he's not having a great year. Well, guess what? You put him on your third line. That makes your third line substantial. substantially better.

So there's different ways you could look at it. I just think they need a forward who could score. I mean, that's, to me, that they're not going to go through the playoffs winning games 2-1. It's not how they're built. They're built to score goals. They're built to out-score people and to out-skate people. They need more forward.

So any of those guys you mentioned, I mean, O'Reilly, gosh, I don't know what they would have to give up to get him. And if he were available, other teams just have more prospects and more draft picks. So it makes it hard for the Penguins. But some of the other names out there, yeah. I mean, it would absolutely make sense. Yeah, you know, another one I, you know, some people have asked me, and it makes a little bit of sense.

But I don't know. He makes a lot of money is, you know, you look at Chicago, you know, would Jonathan Taves be interested in coming year? But also how much does he have left in the tank? You know, I'm not really sure about that. But there was a trade rumor I saw yesterday, Josh, I want to get your thoughts on. Elliot Freeman went on the Jeff Merrick show.

A great listen, by the way. And he touched on Fatcher Demcoe from the Vancouver Connect. and he listed, and then he wrote it in his blog, and he said, you know, the teams that make sense to him, Buffalo, Los Angeles, and then he put Pittsburgh. Have you heard anything on them going out and getting another goalie as a potential deadline target? You know, I put James Reimer there as a good one B option,

but, man, I just really can't see them going out and getting someone like Demko with the money he makes and how awkward that is with Tristan. I just think that would be weird. I do too. Yeah, I saw that report, and I like El a lot and I respect Elliot. I don't know that Elliot, I don't know if he said he

heard that to be true or if he was just kind of theorizing that that would make sense. The penguin's sure, they could use another goaltender. I don't think there's any question. I don't think they need another number one goaltender, which is what I think Demko is. He's a very gifted guy who's having a bad year and who is playing behind the worst blue line in hockey,

probably, which doesn't help goaltenders. but just financially it doesn't make sense to me. I don't see that happening. I think they could use a better backup than Casey to Smith. He's been a disappointment. There's no other way to put it. And I realize the penguins leave him hanging out to dry a lot. I understand that.

But in this era of analytics and advanced numbers, I have a very simple statistic for you, Hunter. When Tristan Jari starts games, the penguins are 16, 5, and 5. He's by far their best goaltender. It's not close. The Smith hasn't been good enough. I would be in favor of the Penguins, if not now,

then certainly this summer, upgrading their backup goaltender situation, especially given how often Jari gets hurt. I don't know how plausible it is right now. You don't see goalies traded during the season very often for a reason. And I think if, I were Ron Hextall, I'm running the Penguins. Yeah, I'd love to have a better goaltender,

but that's probably something I worry about in the summer. If they have a chance to do anything this spring, they have to upgrade it forward, in my opinion. And you really just have to hope Tristan Jari stays healthy and gets hot. He's your best chance. You're not going to get another goaltender, I don't think, who can challenge him in that regard. So I, I just, just as frustrating as the lack of goal-tending depth is for everyone, and I understand that, I just don't know if it's the number one priority right now. Yeah, and I understand that, you know, the bottom six I think is, you know, a little, more important at this point.

Now, I'm going to put your GM tinfoil hat on right now, Josh, you know, of the players that are available with about five weeks ago, and this is going to change. The prices are going to go down. You know, if you were on Hextall, who would you be looking to, require for the bottom section who out there do you think makes a lot of sense for the penguins well you mentioned taves and i i would probably stay away from him uh i just it's a lot of money and i just don't know how good he is anymore how much of a difference he would really make i don't know that he will be traded at all um i don't know though it's i don't know which number three centers will

be available or if any of them will be available. But you're right, that's the priority. I think we have learned. Jeff Carter is no longer a number three center. I think we have learned that Teddy Blugher is not a number three center. And I don't think there's any reason to think Ryan Palin or Drew O'Connor are ready for that role. They don't have anyone else who can really function there. That should be the goal to get a number three center without giving up a first round draft pick. If you can do that, go for it. I don't know that Taves is the guy. You mentioned Barbashev.

It's funny you bring him up. I actually was thinking about him the other day. Man, I've always liked him. I just think he'd really fit in well with how the Penguins play. I think he needs to be with a team that kind of pushes offense more than, say, St. Louis does. Even to get a guy like that, even if you didn't have your number three center, or if you could at least have some scoring threats in your bottom six, even if they weren't centers,

I think that's probably something that would make sense. Let's see what happens with the market. I'm very curious. I thought the Islanders gave up a lot to get Horvatt, and I like Bo Horvatt a lot. The fact is, you know, he could leave New York in three months. And you gave up a first time. You could leave in five weeks if they bought him out.

Yeah, right. You gave up a first round. pick in a great draft here. He gave up a pretty good prospect and you gave up a pretty good player to get them. That's a lot. So maybe that will dictate the way the market goes.

That's not really a good thing for the Penguins. If that's the case moving forward, they only have so much to give up. But a bottom six forward is very clear. And I hate just throwing names out there because it's still really difficult to say who will be available and who will not. But I will say this.

as opposed to, you know, the Penguins just giving up a draft pick or a prospect to try to bring in a player. Is it the worst thing in the world to think about an actual hockey trade? And maybe they have to give up a player on their roster that they like, you know? Maybe they have to, and I'm not, I have not heard anything along these lines, so don't take it this way. But I like Jan Ruta. He's a solid player. Do they really need Jan Ruta? did they really need them last summer, right?

When you've got Latang and Pitcher on the right side, Roodle's okay, Friedman's okay. Like, you're not, they weren't desperate for Jan Ruta. Maybe there are teams out there that would love to have a Jan Ruda who really want that, you know, number five defensemen, a sturdy, right-handed guy who might be willing to give up a good third-line player for him. I'm just throwing ideas out there. It might have to be something like that more than the typical.

We'll give you a couple prospects to give us a player. Yeah, no, I hear you on that. I mean, they barely have any cap space right now, Josh, and they don't even have enough space to keep Ty Smith up, who would look pretty good, I would say, when he made his Penguins debut earlier this season and I think is in their plans for next season. Once I would think Brian Dumlin walks,

I don't think he's going to be resigned. That wraps up this second segment. Covey up in the final segment. I'm going to get Josh's thoughts on what he's looking forward to seeing in the second half. Who needs to be better? And then also just, you know, what could happen if this team, you know, goes on the path that right now, I think a lot of people are expecting.

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All right, we're back in this episode of the Lockdown on Penguins podcast. I'm your host, Honour Hodes. That is, of course, Josh O'Hoy, to my right. Josh, who are you looking forward to seeing improve in the second half of the season? Or, you know, just, you know, what units I also could say, you know, who or what are you looking for big improvements from in the second half of the season? as the Penguins try to extend the league's longest playoff streak and try to cement themselves as a contender again.

Well, there are a few keys. Number one, Tristan Jari needs to be healthy. Yeah. We know that. And, you know, the Penguins said he's out through the All-Star break. I think everybody assumes that means he'll be good to go February 7th against Colorado. I was going to ask if you've heard anything about that injury. No, I mean, he may be ready for that game,

but I don't think the Penguins have come out and said that. People are kind of assuming he's good to go then. And we will see. I know he heard his groin at Fenway, the day of the winter classic. I don't think this particular injury is related to that one. Hopefully not, because groins are not a good injury for goaltenders at all. He needs to stay healthy, number one. Number two, Chris Lattang, we've seen the last few games.

He needs to stay at the party for a while. The guy that we saw in October and November, and listen, I love Chris. I certainly respect him as a player a great deal. He was no good in October or November. He was hurting them more games than not. He was just, I don't know what was going on with him, but he was playing really at a very low level for his standard. They need Crystal Teng to be healthy playing 27 minutes a night.

When he's healthy and playing at a high level, like he has the last few games, that's a game changer for the Penguins. He's still that guy. So if he can play at that level, and if you can have Jari, just staying healthy because I think Jari's really good, that's a big deal in it of itself. And the one other thing I have to mention, and you know, you can blame whoever you want for this, but it starts at the top to me with Crosby and Malkin. The power play has been embarrassing. and the numbers are better than they really are

because the second power play has actually been decent. Yeah. But that first power play for the penguins, it has been painful to watch at times and they need to figure it out. There's no nut front presence at all. There's a refusal to shoot the puck. There is constantly giving up short-handed chances.

It's embarrassing how many. And it's obvious to me, Hunter, that other teams play the penguins differently in the power play. They're trying to score shorthanded goals because they know they're there to be had. Just the lack of awareness is startling to me. They need to figure that out badly. Goals are typically a little harder to come by when you go down the stretch and you need to take advantage of the power play and the penguins just refuse to do it.

And if those three things can happen, right, power play gets a little better, Well, Tang keeps playing like we've seen the last few games. If Jari can stay healthy, I think the Penguins make the playoffs, regardless of if they make a move or not. But those are all ifs right now because of what we've seen in the first half. Yeah, no, I think I agree with all three of those. And the power play, especially, Joshua, as good as Todd Reid, everyone says that Todd Reader is this great power play coach.

And I'm not knocking his defensive work because I thought he did a great job with Mike Matheson, turning him around. You know, he's done a great job so far, I think, with Ty Smith this season, but his power play unit, ever since he got here, I feel like Josh, you know, they fired Mark Recky after that power play wasn't good. Everyone said it was going to improve. Has it really? I don't really see too much improvement with it.

They're still doing that. I know Jesse Marshall, your colleague from The Athletic, wrote that amazing article where he pointed out how that drop pass is just killing everything and teams are just coming up being aggressive because they can. Like they do their homework on the penguins and they see that. it's just a bad play and they're not letting them into the zone and that leads to short-handed opportunities the other way and that's a main reason why they're getting killed out there and you know Mike Sullivan only likes it seems like putting out his top players for 50 55 seconds

maybe a minute you know unlike someone like Alex Lavechkin on the capitals who's out there for the full two minutes just because that's just who he is I think but um it's startling to say the least that how a team with surefire hall of famers really other good snipers on their top unit can have a power play be this down you know i thought it couldn't get worse after what happened with the o for nine versus new jersey um it it got worse after that to say the least it gets worse every time you have to watch the five on three power play because that's when it's really embarrassing right that that one just makes no sense to me i don't i've never seen a team works so it feels like they're working so hard on the power play but there's just so little coming in

return from them it's it's very weird um And, you know, Josh, that loss to the sharks, you know, I think that woke up a lot of people because, you know, they were playing fine kind of in that game. But, you know, they gave, you know, way too many chances back to a team that played the night before to a team that is legitimately tanking this year. I mean, they have their plan and they're going for Connor Bidar. Yeah. But, you know, as for the penguins, Josh, you know, I'll get to this here. what happens if this team has another first round exit or does he make the playoffs, would that be it for this front office here?

Would Fenway want to bring their own front office in and just be like, yeah, we're done with this, we still want to win. We're going to hire our own guys. Well, I will say this. Let's say the Penguins losing the first round or if they don't make the playoffs in all. In either scenario, that will not trigger a rebuild. the penguins aren't rebuilding anytime soon.

You just gave all these contracts this past summer. You're not just going to snap your fingers and say, right, let's blow it up. That's not going to happen. And I also think Mike Sullivan's job is safe no matter what. The fact is he has five years left on his contract. That's a lot. I wouldn't ask you about that, Josh.

I know people want him fired on Penguins Twitter and subredited and stuff, but I don't think there's any way he's getting canned no matter what happens this season, right, Josh? Certainly not this season. for a lot of reasons. I can tell you the Fedmae group people really, really like him. Sidney Crosby really, really likes him. And you know how it is. If you're going to fire a coach, okay, that's fine.

Who are you going to get that's better? Right? And I don't think there is anyone out there who's better right now. Like I said, I don't agree with everything he's done. I'm sure he's not above criticism. Certainly not. and there seems to be some kind of issue in terms of the communication between the coaching staff and the team right now, and that ultimately is on him.

But he's not in trouble. He's not going anywhere. Ron Hextall, however, I'll tell you what, if the Penguins flame out this season, I would be surprised if he's back next year. The Fenway Group wants to win badly. And while I don't think it's fair to call Hextall's time in Pittsburgh a disaster, I will go back to this. He took the job two years ago.

The Penguins told him at the time. David Morehouse told him, we want you to win us another cup, and we also want you to simultaneously replenish our farm system. Now, and I wrote in my article yesterday, it was a stupid request. You can't really do both. You really can't.

You got to pick one or the other, okay? And they were greedy, and they wanted both. both. And it was a tough spot for Hextall and Burke to be in because it's almost impossible to pull off. But you know what? They accepted the challenge.

And two years later, the Penguins farm system still sucks. And the Penguins just as an NHL product very much appear to be declining, look like nothing more than a fringe playoff team right now. So it's hard to be complimentary of the general manager in this spot. especially when you've got Jared McCann going to score 45 goals in Seattle this year, right? And there are other examples of mistakes. And all GMs make mistakes, but I think a lot of the roads go back to the expansion draft two years ago, the assonine decision to protect Jeff Carter.

And I'm not knocking Jeff. I'm just, I know for a fact, I know people in the Seattle organization, they were never going to take him. Never. They didn't want a guy who was going to be 37 years old. that wasn't going to happen. The fact that the penguins didn't figure out a way to keep Jared McCann, how good would he look is your number three center right now?

Or you could have him on Gino's wing and have, you know, Zooker on your third line. How good would that be? But instead, they made the decisions they made, and they're a lesser team for it. And I think, barring some kind of surprising cup run this season, I don't think Ron Hextall survives this. Yeah. Even Josh, even if they win around, say they play, I don't know, Carolina, Boston, you know, you play Boston, you're probably on a, again, that's a runaway training to get balanced in five games, I would think.

And though I will say the Penguins have played the ruins tougher than some other teams have the season, but it's never really been a good matchup for them. Even if they win around Josh and then lose in the second, you still think that's probably not enough. Tough to say. It depends on the circumstances. around that could change everything though simply because they haven't won a series since 2018 it's been five years weird just to get that taste in your mouth to win a series and to be one of the eight teams remaining in the playoffs that that might buy everybody some time if that were to happen um but you know you can see the standings as well as i and if they do get in it's

probably as a wild card and if you're a wild card that means you're getting probably Carolina or Boston, good luck. Those are two of the best teams in hockey. I think they're both nightmare matchups for the penguins. And it's just hard to envision this team winning a series right now. Yeah, I think that's, you know, I will say I said the same thing last year. Then they blew the doors off the Rangers for the first four games and Louis DeMing took it back. But this just feels a bit different.

I'll say that. I think that's a little unfair for me to fully going to that. I know they looked cooked at the end of last. season though they turned to the switch you know i thought they think people at the time were saying josh that mike sullivan's message was going stale do you think that message is going stale right now or i mean i don't think it is but you know sometimes you know just because coaches have short shelf lives in the league as a whole you know that can trigger any kind of coaching change do you think like his messages are not going through because he said after the sharks game i believe you're the one

that tweeted out i think other media members he has he said i have to do a better job job of coaching this team. So I think, you know, is he self-aware that maybe it's just not getting through them? It was interesting. I actually asked Sid after the game. I said, is there something lost in translation here between the coaching staff and you guys? And he knew exactly what I was asking him. And he said, no, absolutely not. He said, there's nothing wrong with this system. There's nothing wrong with this coach. He said, no, it was, it was kind of aggressive for Sid. usually he just kind of rides the fence. He pretty passionately defended Mike Sullivan.

I don't think Sullivan's above criticism. I don't. And if he didn't have those two Stanley Cup rings, would he be in trouble? Oh, yeah. No question. Because they look like a stale team. They look like a poorly coached team right now. They really do.

History tells us they're not a poorly coach team, though. That's the thing. This guy, in my opinion, Sullivan has been such of a good coach for so long in Pittsburgh. rarely have I blamed him for any of their playoff failures. I never felt like it was a coaching issue. And I have a lot of respect for the work that he puts in. And I think his staff is good. Ultimately, a couple of things. I don't think they have enough good players. I know that's rudimentary and to the point, but I don't think they do.

And secondly, they're best players. Crosby, Malk, and Lattang, Gensel, these are great hockey players, maybe not in Sid's case, but in the case of the others, they have a lot of bad habits. They always have, and they've always just had the talent to get away with some of the stuff that they do. And they're still great, but you can see the rest of the league just kind of catching up to them a little bit in terms of skill and talent. And the penguins don't want to change how they play. They still want to be like the young guns who could win seven, six, whenever they feel like it.

I really believe that. I think it's just a part of their DNA, and I'm talking about the best players on the team. They want to play that style of hockey, and I just don't think they're as equipped to do it as they once wore. And I don't blame the coach for that. I think they would drive any coaching staff nuts. It was funny, when the Tang was out of the lineup the first time after a stroke,

I asked Jeff Petrie what it was like being on the power play, because they had a couple of good games with him on the power play. I said, man, I said, things look like they're going pretty nice. you fitting in well. And he looks at me, says, you think, really? I said, I said, yeah, you look, you look good to me. He said, I don't know, man. He said, they play their own game out there.

I've never played with guys like this before in the power play. Like, they're different. I don't, I'm trying to figure it out. He wasn't really being critical of them, but he was just saying, like, these guys kind of do their own thing. Like, they're not really doing what the coaches. Like, I'm just trying to do what the coaches tell me, but now there's something else going on on the ice.

So it feels like, Josh, it's been the same thing with their three on three, struggles as well. You know, people that I think they feel have asked about their overtime struggles and Mike Sullivan said the same thing about the power play. Well, you know, we try not to overcoach them, try to see them do their own thing. Well, their own thing has led them to probably the worst. I've ever seen them since three on three started. You know, a few more wins, Josh, they're up near third place right behind the, right behind the Rangers or tied with the Rangers for third in the Metro. No, the three on three play. A couple of things. God, I always say a couple of things with every answer. This team's very multifaceted right now. A couple of things.

They look slow. Don't that on three on three against certain teams especially. They never used to look slow. They're just having a hard time keeping up. Malkin especially, you can see that. But really, it's just the mental mistakes that we see three on three. You know, I think there's one game Malkin swoop behind the net. And it gave a three on two and they lost. And Sullivan even seen it. Yeah, right. And Sullivan set up for the game, like, can't go behind the net. You can tell. They tell Gino that all the time.

And he can't help himself. He wants to do certain things that he likes. You know, the bad line change in New Jersey when Pedersen jumped on early. Can't do that. You know, Gino took the penalty the other night. Can't do that. They're just finding different ways to lose three on three. And it's just a mental thing.

And it might cost them a playoff spot, really. All the mental mistakes they make, they're going to cost themselves. four or five points this season really games they otherwise should have won. That can easily be the difference between being a playoff team and not. So things we used to take for granted with the Penguins, the three on three points,

the shootout points, the loading up on the power play, those strengths have largely left them. And that's one of the reasons that I say they just look far more vulnerable right now than they have really any time since I started

covering them in 2009 for sure. They just look flawed and I think they're in trouble. I'm not saying they're not going to make the playoffs. If you put a gun to my head and ask, please don't. But if you were to do that, I'd probably still pick them to get in. I know how important that streak is to them. I know how important it is to Sidney Crosby to be in the playoffs. So I won't bet against him.

And the Penguins actually have a really soft schedule in March and April. that should help them down the stretch. But make no mistake, they are in trouble. This isn't going to be some easy quest for them. Yeah, no, I agree with you, Josh, and, you know, gun to my head right now. Please don't anyone do that. I would pick them to make the playoffs as well,

and, you know, we'll have to see how they do in the February portion of the schedule. But, Josh, I think that's all I have for you today for this episode of the Lockdown Penguins podcast. You know, All-Star Weekends upon us, and he Crosby will be there. No other penguin will be there, though. I think they're all on vacation.

I said this a couple times. I think Raquel's down in Florida with his family. Gino, I've heard, has gone skiing and then is going back down to Miami. So he's just doing everything this week. Other players are going on vacation and stuff. I feel bad for Sid. He wanted to go on vacation, but he's got to go play in the All-Star game. Yeah, well, at least he'll have his good buddy, Nate, there.

They can just get drunk during one of those skills competitions and have fun together. I go to Gino's house afterwards in Miami. not far away. Might as well, right? Yeah, no, yeah, exactly. Again, Josh, you know, thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it. And, you know, just I'll give you for, in case anyone is not following you or your work, which would be crazy, I'm sure there are some people out there. There's a few odd balls out there, Hunter. You never know. I know. I'll let you plug your work and everything here. Yeah, just, yeah, come to theathletic.com. I'm not just going to plug myself. It's a great site for sports fans, and it's not just hockey. It's pretty much any sport you

could think of. We cover so many sports. It's wild. It really is. That's a great website. So I know a lot of people have signed up, and it's only a couple of dollars a month. So it's quite affordable these days. So I certainly invite everybody to come on by and sign up. Yeah, do that. You can follow him on Twitter as well. So again, thank you all so much for listening to this special episode of Locktime Penguins podcast. I'll be back with another one for you all on Thursday. I'll talk to you all that.