Locked On Penguins - Daily Podcast On The Pittsburgh Penguins - Kyle Dubas OPENS UP about the Penguins rebuild, management, and more!

Starting point is 00:00:00 Kyle Dubus opened up in a way we have not heard much from him since he's been the Penguins president of hockey operations. Hunter and I are going to break down his comments and more right after this. You're locked on penguins, your daily podcast on the Pittsburgh Penguins, part of the Locked on podcast network, your team every day. Welcome in to another edition of the Locked on Penguins podcast. I'm one of your host, Patrick Damp. You can follow me across all social media platforms at Synonym 4Wet.

Starting point is 00:00:38 Joined as always by the one and only Hunter Hodes. You can follow him on Twitter at Hunter Hodes. You can give our show's Twitter account a follow at LO underscore Penguins. You can also drop us a follow on Instagram at Locked On underscore Penguins. And of course, we appreciate you making us part of your daily routine. Don't forget that we are free and available wherever you get your podcast. as well as YouTube. And if you follow us on YouTube, be sure to hit the notification button.

Starting point is 00:01:09 That way you can be among the first to know when we drop our latest episodes. Before we dive into it today, today's episode is brought to you by Fandul. Right now, new customers can get $150 in bonus bets on Fandul if their first $5 bet wins. Well, Hunter, this is something we, I don't want to say missed so much as, we had to kind of hold off so we could do fan take Friday to end last week. Kyle Dubus was on the PDO cast last week. It was a very interesting conversation. And it was a side of Kyle Dubus that we haven't really seen since he became the Penguins

Starting point is 00:01:50 president of hockey operations. Now, we all know he is a very well-spoken, very thoughtful person. If you watch any of his press conferences and press availability since, he's come to Pittsburgh. He gives just about every reporter in the room time. He answers questions thoughtfully. He answers them honestly. Sure, there's a lot of general manager speak and fog of war in there where he doesn't want to give too much away on what his plans are. Let's be honest, he was trained under the tutelage of Lou Lamarillo. And if you so much as speak out of turn with Lou Lamarillo, you might find yourself with cement shoes at the bottom of a river.

Starting point is 00:02:32 So there's a little bit of that in him. But the thing I wanted to start the show about with today, and we'll get more into the overall penguin side of it later on in the show, is Kyle Dubas's theory of management. One of the things he touched on in that conversation, it wasn't directly about Mitch Marner, but it was basically a nod to what he's learned. and what he believes when it comes to elite players,

Starting point is 00:03:03 basically saying it's better to give a player you believe in a longer-term deal and give them that security than to string them along. Now, the penguins aren't in position to do anything like that right now. Obviously, they're not going to give out big deals to Crosby, Malkin, Latang. We'll see what happens in their future. But I like the fact that he was willing to admit that, hey, everybody calls me this player friendly kind of always doing right by the players, but it's better to give your best players longer deals to let them know you believe in them rather than to make them have to sing

Starting point is 00:03:41 for their supper every three to four years. Right. That was definitely really enlightening. And by the way, people, if you have not listened to this episode yet with Dimitri and Thomas Drans, they both did a great job asking questions to Kyle Dubus. I very much suggest that you go and listen to the full show. We're not going to talk about the entire thing today because that would be kind of ridiculous for us. We want you to go and listen to the episode because they did such a good job with Dubus as a guest. So please take the time, listen to it.

Starting point is 00:04:10 I would say 80 to 85% of the conversation was about management in the NHL and about, you know, the 15 to other 20% is about the penguins. But it's still a really, and I mean a really fun listen. One of the things that really stood out to me was when they asked Dubis about all the players they've taken Pat that have, have, you know, skating grades of, you know, four to five. Like, they aren't the best skaters in the draft. And he kind of just said, like, yeah, like, we identify players that we think can improve

Starting point is 00:04:38 that department, but we also think they have, you know, good physical traits. They have good hockey IQ, good offensive tools on the ice. That's what they're kind of looking for, even though, you know, when you look at the elite prospects grade for their skating, it's not, you know, close to that nine rates or even a seven or eight. they feel like they can improve in that regard. And I also liked how he discussed his management style. There was a part during the interview where he even said, like, yeah, like, you know,

Starting point is 00:05:07 I encourage conversations, you know, between, you know, the scouting staff and the analytic staff. Like, there's nothing, you know, weird about that in the scouting rooms. You know, he even said, like, you know, I come from a big scouting background and I encourage these conversations. Like, I really like when both sides, you know, give their opinion. and he even said, like, there's nothing weird about it. You're not seeing any major disagreements or anything like that.

Starting point is 00:05:31 But I like how we answer that they just try to, you know, bring everything together in one room. And that's how it should be now, especially with where hockey analytics have come in the last, what, Pat, 10 to 11 years, honestly. Scouting obviously has been around way longer than that. But I feel like hockey analytics, they still have a long way to go, at least in my opinion. We both use them on our show. But they've still come a long way in the last 10. 10 to 11 years. So I really liked that aspect as well. And another thing I really liked is how we talked about how fast things can change in the NHL. He really talked about the Florida Panthers,

Starting point is 00:06:06 how they were really able to keep their core players and talked about the pricing salary cap and also talked about their draft picks, but we can get into that a little bit later. But another big point, as I just as I just discussed, Pat, how things can change quickly in the NHL. He really hampered that home during this episode. Right. And this will kind of be a good way to not we're not going to close out this segment after about five minutes obviously there's a lot to discuss here but it's a good way to kind of get us on the road to the second segment about where this rebuild is and where it's going the panthers being able to retain everybody really kind of i think and dubus doesn't outright say this but he hints at it that it kind of messed up

Starting point is 00:06:53 their strategy because they expected one or more of those big names on the market to move, whether it was the Panthers, whether it was Mitch Marner. And obviously that happened with Marner, but that happened via sign and trade. They kind of expected there to be more movement, which would have squeezed some teams out and left some players available, whether it was via trade, whether it was for RFA offer sheets and things like that. But given that a lot of the teams were able to flex their salary cap space, it really threw a bit of a wrench into the plan of what they were looking to do and what they're looking to do going forward. So I think it was good of him to say like, hey, things in the NHL, they change at a really

Starting point is 00:07:41 rapid pace. And to kind of put a bow a little bit on what he was saying overall and how it relates to the penguins, he talked about how. how in the 2010s, the best teams were the best teams, not because they had any sort of reinventing of the wheel. The penguins, the Blackhawks, the Los Angeles Kings, the Boston Bruins, they identified a really good core, kept them together, and players wanted to go there. It wasn't some, hey, look at us.

Starting point is 00:08:19 We're this big flashy team. We're reinventing the wheel. We're doing all kinds of new things. no, they had two, three, four really good players that they identified and locked up and said this is a core that can win. And that attracted top tier talent to want to go to those teams. And you can see that happening with Florida. You can see that happening with Vegas.

Starting point is 00:08:38 You can see it happening with Dallas, Carolina, Colorado. Kyle Dubis understands that we're going to have to lock up some good talent and keep them here to attract other talent to come to town. that and also you need to get back to winning again. I mean, again, they're still very early in this rebuild. We're going to touch on that a little bit more coming up in the second segment. But you still have to get back to winning a little bit more, Pat, so you can convince some of those players, hey, you should come here based on our history, based on, okay, we're coming out of this rebuild eventually, and this is down the line. I don't think this is going to be right away.

Starting point is 00:09:15 They're still very early in this rebuild. But eventually down the line, when you're ready to go get some of those complimentary pieces, especially after you potentially, after you potentially, draft your next core players, you can convince them, hey, we have these guys in place, we're ready to win, you look at our organization's history, come join us. And I think that'll be a step. Again, that's coming down the line as well. And he kind of admitted that he wanted to take action on the assets that they had accumulated. But because of what the Panthers did and what some of these other teams did as well, Pat, with some of the signs and trades, especially, you know, with Marner not even getting to market, they just didn't have the opportunity to do that. So they

Starting point is 00:09:52 kind of had to pivot pretty quickly. You know, they obviously picked 13 players in the 2025 initial draft, and they're not going to pick players with all these picks coming up in these next few years. But it does show that they had to pivot pretty quickly. And he even admitted that during the show. But still, again, those are just a couple of things that really stood out to me. And we're discussed more about the rebuild coming up pretty quickly here. Yeah, that's a good place to put a button on this first segment.

Starting point is 00:10:18 we'll kind of mesh together in the second segment. A lot of the things that Dubus said on the PDO cast and how they relate to where this team is in the process of this rebuild and retool. We'll get into that when we come back. So stick with us. We'll be right back. But first, we got to tell you about today's sponsor, and that is Fandul.

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Starting point is 00:11:19 open the Fandul app today or visit fandul.com to get started. Welcome back to the Monday edition of the Locked-on Penguins podcast. I'm Patrick Damp right alongside Hunter Hodes. And let's keep this conversation going about Kyle Dubus's conversation on the PDO cast and how it relates to what the Pittsburgh Penguins are doing right now. And one thing that stood out to me a little bit was he did kind of reiterate that they are still operating with a mindset of wanting to get Sidney Crosby back to the playoffs. And this is kind of where I'm going to push back on Kyle Dubus a little bit.

Starting point is 00:12:05 And no, we're not getting into any of the stupid. Is Crosby going to get traded conversations? Get out of our mentions. We're not talking about that. I get why he says this. I understand why he says this. you don't want to come out and go, sorry, Crosby, everything here sucks now. You're just going to have to eat crap and smile.

Starting point is 00:12:28 But there is a world where he can make this happen because I want to talk about it this way. Blending what he said about things changing so rapidly in the NHL with Florida being able to lock everybody up, not a lot of big names getting to market, in the salary cap expanding. the thing that he might be able to pull off here is cliche as it's been overhyped as it's been about every all 31 other teams are trying to get better and trying to win and then there's the Pittsburgh Penguins who hold all the cards here's the thing there are going to be a lot of teams this year that underachieve that disappoint that things aren't going to go well and here are the Pittsburgh Penguins

Starting point is 00:13:16 with a couple of good tradable assets and Brian Rust, Ricard Raquel, Eric Carlson, whomever else, a boatload of picks, a boatload of prospects now. So if he wants to get back to the playoffs, if I'm him and I want to get back to the playoffs in the next, let's say, two to three years,

Starting point is 00:13:38 one of those disappointing teams or a couple of those disappointing teams are going to have talent that you could maybe poach if they really get desperate. So I'm interested to see what happens on that because like he said, things change and they change pretty quickly. They do. But I also will push back on that a little bit.

Starting point is 00:13:56 I mean, you kind of said it. He kind of has to say that at this rate with where Cindy Crosby is at the tail end of his career. He's not going to say like, hey, we're going to suck this year and we're going to suck next year too. And there's nothing you can do about it. Like that will probably, at least in my opinion, makes sense. a little bit upset.

Starting point is 00:14:15 But at the same time, I also know that he signed up for, you know, a rebuild when he re-uped with the Penguins for this contract extension. But I still don't think he's going to go out there and say, like, oh, yeah, you know, we are 100% going to suck this year and all that. Like, we can sit here on the show and say they're not going to be good because we believe that. And again, I don't think they're going to make the playoffs, but, you know, crazier things have happened.

Starting point is 00:14:37 But I still would put it at 85, 90% know that they won't get in and maybe about 10 to 15, yes. but he really admitted that with the draft picks that they have like they want to a draft their next core players slash franchise players and b use some of those other draft picks to go get some complimentary players that will be out there whenever because those types of players are always available i think some people need to you know remember that a lot of those types of players they're available every year. But they still don't have their next wave of franchise guys yet that might start in 2026, depending on how high they pick in the draft, whether that's McKenna, whether that's someone else a bit after him. But it may start that point. And maybe it continues into next year

Starting point is 00:15:27 with Landon DuPont, just because he's also seen as a generational slash franchise type of player. But again, I also think some people need to understand that not all rebuilds are created equal. Are they at the beginning stages of this right now? Yes. Does that mean this is going to take eight to ten years or something like that? No, because not all rebuilds are the same. I've seen some take that long, but I think in my opinion, right now in the cap era, with where the league is and where the league is going, your rebuild should not take that long at this rate. And I think that's why you're seeing more teams try to do this as quickly as possible and kind of do it on the fly. I think the days of seeing, you know, a decade-long rebuild or even close to a decade-long rebuild.

Starting point is 00:16:12 They're getting close to being over, in my opinion, just because of where the league is going, how high the salary cap is going, and all that. But I also know that Calduba's company, they're not going to put a total timeline on this. I'll say this, though. If this takes eight to ten years, I think something went horribly wrong, and I think they just mismanaged this whole thing. It should not take that long. I think if it's somewhere, you know, you know, few years up to maybe five to six,

Starting point is 00:16:40 I think that's totally reasonable for me just because that's how you see some rebuilds go and even other sports, even in the NHL as well. But they are still in the early stages of this week. You've seen the reports out there that they want to get aggressive in 2026 for free agency with the capitalized they have. Again, time will tell. He said it. Things changed on the fly.

Starting point is 00:17:01 but just to wrap this up, we're still very early in this process. Once they really potentially get a franchise slash core piece that will be with the team for many years to come, that's when I think this will really start speeding up a bit more. For sure. And I look at a lot of what Kyle Dubis did at this draft, what he's done for the past year.

Starting point is 00:17:28 And he, I think, is understanding that to your point about not all rebuilds being equal, not all rebuilds being built the same. I think he's acknowledging that the franchise player, the top tier, top guy, it's probably better, at least in this instance for the penguins and where they are as a franchise, that he's the last piece and not the first.

Starting point is 00:17:59 because for two reasons. One, you have the players the Penguins have right now. They're not bottoming out. It's just not going to happen. They're not going to be historically bad. It's just not going to happen. If it does, it means injuries. It means bad luck.

Starting point is 00:18:15 It means whatever. They are not going to be intentionally bad. They might not be very good, but they're not going to turn this team into a complete disaster area where it's borderline hard to watch. So he's looking at it as still have to see if any of these players get traded though before the season or even during the season. So. Yes.

Starting point is 00:18:36 Jury is still out on that. But you look at some of the young players he's signed and traded for. You look at the players he's drafted because he did say on they did talk on that show, as you said about a lot of these guys, they're skating on elite prospects was like three and four out of nine. But you look at what they've been able to do with the likes of Rucker McGority with Ville, Kovin. and they were like, we can work on their skating. Yeah. If they're good at other things, we can work on the skating. We can get that up to par.

Starting point is 00:19:04 We don't want guys who are fast for nothing. We don't want guys who get to a point and have nothing they can do when they get there, but they got there quickly, so who cares? But to my overarching point, he's looking at it as if to say, I want to make sure the complimentary pieces for that big name are in place when the big name gets here. I want there to be cheap depth that is affordable and productive.

Starting point is 00:19:30 And then once the big guy gets here, we're ready to roll. Because you look at places like Buffalo. You look at places right now like Chicago. We'll obviously see what happens with them. But you look at the, hell, you even look at the early years of Connor McDavid. You look at those teams and go, well, they got this generational talent. That's it. and as good as they are, as talented as they are.

Starting point is 00:19:58 Hockey's not a sport like basketball where you get the big name and they can play 36, 37 minutes a night, be on the court most of the game. There's at least a third, if not more, of the game where your best player's not on the ice. So I like this approach of getting as much as you can in now, developing it, see where they end up. and then when you get that big talent, you're ready to roll.

Starting point is 00:20:25 That and also, again, you can also get more complimentary pieces that are even making $4 to $5 million that get made available every year, you know, that are putting up, you know, 20, 25 plus goals in the league that maybe don't want to be with their team anymore or maybe they don't want to sign their next contract with the team.

Starting point is 00:20:40 And you can get those types of players and then surround that big guy or potential big guys with those players. And then at that point, you're also ready to go. You combine that with your franchise guy and then some of your cheap depth that you already have in the system, at that point, you're almost ready to go, especially if you just hopefully get league average gullating,

Starting point is 00:20:59 you can defend well and all that. So I think he's saying the right things, but as we keep saying, he's going to be judged by how he brings this team back to contention, his entire tenure, that is. So we're going to keep watching that as they keep navigating through this. Yeah, it's going to be really interesting to watch. I like where they are right now. I think There's a couple of the things that they need to do, but we've got a whole off season and a whole season to dive into all of that. So that is going to do it for our breakdown of Kyle Dubus on the PDO cast and how it relates to the Pittsburgh Penguins current situation.

Starting point is 00:21:37 When we come back, just because they might not be good this year doesn't mean that there aren't a bunch of milestones looming for three of the best players in the history of the Pittsburgh Penguins. We'll make sure you're ready for those. and you know what they're coming up against this season right after this. We're back here on the Monday edition of Locked on Penguins. I'm Patrick Damp right alongside Hunter Hodes. And let's get right into it, Hunter.

Starting point is 00:22:08 Let's get the big one out of the way. Sidney Crosby is 36 points away from tying Mario Lemieux's all-time franchise point record of 1,000. 723 points. Crosby, as this season gets underway, has 1,687, because of course, it ends with 87 points going into this year. I feel pretty comfortable in saying this Hunter, I think you're going to agree. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. especially if he stays healthy and I think that's going to happen. He is going to break this record this year and that record is going to stay in place for

Starting point is 00:23:02 at least a very long time, if not forever. But hey, I think we all said that about Mario Lemieux's franchise points record until Sid came along and he's about to break it. So never say never when it comes to record like that, but it's going to be in place for quite a long time. After that, he has Steve Eiserman in his sights, with 1,755 points, 68 points away from tying Eisenman. He stays healthy this year. The level he played at last year, I know he's going to be another year older. I say he gets ahead of Steve Eisenman for seventh all time on the points list.

Starting point is 00:23:40 After that, you have Marcel Dion with 1,771 points. If he's healthy, he'll have a chance to get that one as well. Don't think he's going to get Ron Francis at 1,798. but there is a real chance if he produces the way he did last year this year, he could be sixth all time and points by the end of this season and could potentially crack top five the following season. I say the way he keeps producing, I think he is going to get into the top five by the end of this career,

Starting point is 00:24:09 which is going to be freaking awesome. You get into the top five, man. You get obviously Ronnie Francis, Gordy, Hal, Mark Messier, Yarmier, Jarmier, Wayne Gretzky, no one is touching Gretzky's record. But, you know, I think he can definitely get ahead of Francis. in the top five. Time will tell for Goldie Howl. And then for Evgeny Malkin right now, 1,346 points. He is only a few ahead of Patrick King. 31st in National History. He's set to pass Matt Sundin. He's only three away from tying him at number 30. You have Brendan Shanahan

Starting point is 00:24:39 pretty close by, Gila Fleur. You have Mike Madano a bit later on, Brett Hall. no, Evgeny Malkin has a really good opportunity to get into the top 25 all time this year in terms of points among all NHL players. So I definitely think he's going to get that. I don't know if he's going to get to 900 assists this year. He needs 68 to do that. I think that's probably wishful thinking, in my opinion. For Sid, though, for assists, he's only 38 away from 1,100.

Starting point is 00:25:09 And I say he gets that this year, especially with the way he played last year. again, Malkins won. That's wishful thinking. I don't think he's going to get that this year. If he plays another year after that, I say he does. So those are just a couple of really cool milestones that we can see this year. But Pat, I know you also have a couple for Crystal Tang as well. Yes, before I get to those, I do think we'll see Evgeny Malkin move into the top 25 all time,

Starting point is 00:25:32 especially if he's healthy and has consistent linemates this year. We kind of forget it. We talked about it on our Friday episode. he actually produced a pretty solid rate for not having good linemates last year. Yeah, is he who he once was? Absolutely not. But the talent is still there. We just got to find him some consistency,

Starting point is 00:25:53 especially when it comes to linemates. And I think it'll be, it won't be to the level of Crosby, but it won't be too far off because it's still there for Hvgeny Malkin. We just got to find him some help. And I think they're going to try to do that. As for Chris Lattang, it's a big year coming up for him.

Starting point is 00:26:09 he's three assists shy of 600 in his career and he is 28 points away from 800 career points. So that is another really big year coming up for Chris Latang. And I feel like I say this way too often, but I have to say it just because the fact that he is still doing this. the fact that he is still playing in a moderately high level. I know he struggled last year. I know on this show, we have talked about how he's probably no longer a top pairing defenseman. But when you accumulate everything he's gone through in his career health-wise, the fact that he is still chugging along, the fact that he is still motivated,

Starting point is 00:27:00 and he can hit a couple of really nice milestones this season, given all he's gone through really, really rooting for him to do it. 100%. And I love seeing him post those workout videos on his Instagram. There is no one that works harder than Chris LaTang. You see that every offseason. It's goaded the videos that he posts every offseason on his Instagram, the way that he works out, the conditioning that he has, despite being in his late 30s. They may tell him, like, we're going to cut your minutes down, but he's still going to be like,

Starting point is 00:27:33 No, I don't want that to happen. I want to be out there for half the game, even though it's like, okay, Chris, you're a bit older now. You're not the player you used to be, but we understand why you always want to be out there. And Pat, it's crazy. 22nd all time, excuse me, among points for defensemen in initial history. He only needs 15 or 15 points to tie for 20th,

Starting point is 00:27:55 16 to get into the top 20 all time for points among defensemen and initial history. It's pretty awesome. Like, I can't lie. Like you mentioned the milestones, Pat, three assists away from 600, 28 points away from 800. I say he does boast this year. And I say that he gets into the top 20 all time for swimming among defensemen. Three really cool milestones I think we're going to get from him this year,

Starting point is 00:28:19 even though he's not going to produce like we've seen in the past. That's just not going to happen. No, but I think the combination of knowing that their time is coming to an end together, the fact that they want to go hopefully on one more run together and you mix in these milestones that they're staring down. I think we're going to see a motivated big three this year. We'll see how far that motivation gets them because we're all pretty motivated. It doesn't mean we always get what we want.

Starting point is 00:28:51 But we will see, obviously, we're going to be tracking that all season long. So make sure you're sticking with us. Make sure you're subscribed. let us know what you think, when these guys will do it, how you felt about Kyle Dubus's interview and anything else on your mind in the comments. But that is going to do it for this episode. Hunter and I will be back with a new episode for you on Wednesday.

Starting point is 00:29:12 We're working on maybe switching up the schedule this week because both of us do go on vacation at the end of this week. So we want to make sure you're getting your fill of Locked on Penguins. So keep it locked here on our YouTube channel or wherever else you subscribe, as well as our social media channels, we'll let you know. But for now, for Hunter Hodes, I'm Patrick Damp. Thank you, as always for tuning in, and we'll be back on Wednesday.

Locked On Penguins - Daily Podcast On The Pittsburgh Penguins - Kyle Dubas OPENS UP about the Penguins rebuild, management, and more!

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