Locked On Penguins - Daily Podcast On The Pittsburgh Penguins - Locked On Penguins 2/10-JASON ZUCKER IS HERE!

Episode Date: February 11, 2020

In this episode of Locked On Penguins, Hunter has Jeff come back onto the show and they both talk about the Penguins trade of Jason Zucker, the cost to acquire, how he fits, and touch on a bunch of other things surrounding the Penguins as well! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello and welcome to a light night episode of the Locked-on Penguins podcast. I'm, of course, your host, Hunter Hodes. Follow me on Twitter at Hunter Hodes. Follow the show's Twitter at L.O. underscore Penguins. And, you know, going into today, I just thought it was going to be a regular episode. Probably recap the game against Florida. Talk about John Reno's injury, which, you know, we'll get to later. But, of course, Jim Rutherford decided he had other ideas,

and he finally pulled the trade off to get Jason Zucker from the Minnesota Wild for Alex Gauchenio, a conditional first-round pick and defensive prospect, Kaelin Addison. And for this episode, I thought it would be great to get Jeff with Tang Colt back on the podcast since he loves to talk about trades and all that. He's also one of my very, very good friends. So, Jeff, welcome.

How are you doing tonight, my man? Oh, really good, really good. The defendant's pulled the trade off, and I like the price and pretty happy with it. Yeah, I like it as well. So, you know what? Let's just get on right into it, Jeff. obviously I know you like the trade

but give me your full thoughts on it what do you think about the price they gave up the player that they're getting we know that this had been rumored for a while it was probably going to happen and it eventually did so let's hear it well I think it's a deal that's very similar to the Phil Kessel deal and

I don't know exactly if Rutherford is getting a Kessel caliber player in Zucker I think that Zucker is going to be a better fit in the system than Kessel was of course Kessel did produce for the Penguins. But toward the end, he started to taper off, especially his five-on-five game.

But as far as the price goes, I love it. The first round pick, I had a thread of tweets not too long ago taking a look at the Penguins' first round picks of the entire Crosby era and of the picks that were later in the draft because the Penguins obviously had made the playoffs. very few players had actually turned out and are still active in the league. So this pick was a gamble to begin with. As far as Addison goes, the penguins have Marino. They have Pierre Oliver Joseph.

They have Lander. They've got a lot of good prospects. And, you know, Addison's numbers looked a lot like Derek Puliott's numbers from a few years ago. And while there's no guarantee that he turned out like Derek Pugliott, there's no guarantee that he's panning out either. And even if he does, if Addison does become something very good for the Minnesota Wild, if the penguins get one Stanley Cup from having Zucker, then it's worth it. The other part, Alex Galcenaic, he didn't work with the penguins. I read Rossi's piece where he had said that Galchengok started off the groin injury

and had to work his way through that and had a tough time there. And he never quite got to going with the penguins, so I hope he works it out with the wild he's always a player that I'd like to watch and I was a big fan when we got him. Of course, it just didn't work. So I'm a big fan of the trade initially. We'll see how it works with Sid. Obviously, Zucker has the kind of skills that he liked to see with Sid. Yeah.

Hopefully it works. No, I completely agree. You know, when I saw the trade, I saw Oxo Chinook, I saw the first round pick. I'm like, eh, whatever. At first I was like, oh, well, they traded Kalynastin. He's probably their number one prospect. But then, like you said, when you really think about it, you know, they're making a run now for the fourth Stanley Cup of the Sydney Crosby and Evgeny Malcanera. And I tweeted this.

I was like, okay, yeah, sure, one to two. Cups is pretty good. Three, yeah, that's awesome. But you get four. You know, you're basically in the immortality stage at this point because there's not a lot of players that just have four Stanley Cups, especially four Stanley Cups in, what, 11 years? You'll go down in the history books. They'll just keep rewriting the history books. in Pittsburgh.

And, you know, I've seen a lot of people say today, well, you know, that's a lot to give up for a player like Jason Zucker. And I feel like a lot of people are saying that because people probably haven't checked that his contract, he's not a rental. He has almost three and a half years left on this contract. So they have him for four playoff runs. And, you know, there's also the chance that you could potentially get Jake Gensel back during this playoff run if the Penguins went around or two. and then your lineup is looking really, really scary. I tweeted out the lineup that I would have when the penguins get fully healthy with Zucker, and then you add Gensel into that mix, and I'd say that's a pretty potent lineup.

But I've never really seen a more overrated trade piece probably in hockey than a late first round pick because you never know if those are going to pan out those 23 to 31 picks. And the chance is, I think, low. You just don't see it very often. And I think people forget that. Well, even if they do pan out, Hunter, what kind of players are going to be? You know, you don't know if that player is going to take three or four years to develop. You don't know if they're going to be ready the next year.

I mean, it really is a toss-up. Look at, like, you know, Daniel Sprong, you look at, granted, he was a second-round pick, but he was a pretty decent second-round pick who's predicted to go in the first round, as well as Derek Puliott. I mean, sometimes it just doesn't work. Yeah, no, no, I completely agree. And, you know, Godspeed to Alex Gowcena, going to Minnesota because, you know, he definitely needs to find another fit

just to hopefully get his game going at least a little bit for the wild. I don't think the wild are going to make the playoffs this year, even though they're four points out. But still, you know, just getting a little bit of production out of him would be nice probably for Minnesota, though. I really don't see it happening. but, you know, just to get Zucker in, you know, this was really funny, I thought from Jim Ruther for these past couple weeks, Jeff.

Oh, my God, the market has stalled. Oh, there's not a lot going on. Oh, I may not be able to make a trade until, like, the last weekend. Well, you know, he was quiet for a reason it looked like, and it paid off. Yeah, I don't think he wanted to give up Addison. I had a large speculation, and I talked with members of Pittsburgh Media about this, that I thought Bukstad was the centerpiece of the district. deal that would land, Zucker, because, I mean, the timelines added up so perfectly, but in the end,

I kind of like not having to give a Buxtad, because if you have, you know, Bukstad's talent, even in a bottom six capacity, he's still far, far better than most of the bottom six players around the league. So that interests me. Yeah, yeah, I tweeted out later at my lineup, and if he's like your fourth line center going into the playoffs, I mean, There's a lot worse centers that you can have as your fourth-fired center, and I'm glad that they got to- Perhaps. Hopefully he can get healthy because these last three months, it's obvious he's had a setback of some kind, but hopefully he gets back to practice soon. And yeah, I do, I hear your sentence about Addison.

I've had a couple people privately have told me that the penguins really, really liked him, and that they didn't really see him that he was going to get traded anytime soon. Well, Jim Rutherford obviously had other plans. And, you know, this is the kind of move that you make when you're in a win-down mode. You know, this is for 2019-20. Who gives a shit about 2026, 2027 at this point? You know, they're all going to be probably retired by then or they'll be close to 40 years old. Absolutely.

Yeah. So, I mean, I don't really see why people are so mad about. You know, I saw some really funny tweets on Twitter today. you know this isn't the pirates because some pirates fans like to make comments about the penguins doing this kind of stuff yet the pirates have the worst payroll

in baseball and they don't like to spend but that's a completely different story I don't feel bad for their fans but yeah I just I just I really really like this deal and I'm excited to see him on Crosby's wing I think they have a bunch of options that could go opposite of Zucker and Crosby right now you can put

McCann there I could see Simone going on there because I know Crosby loves playing with Simone, it's very evident that he does. I think I've listened to a couple of podcasts where a couple of the writers have said that I think he's privately asked for Simone to be on his line. But you know, this just strengthens their top six. And no, they're, hopefully, if they get healthy, they're primed and ready for a potential cup run here. Yeah, I like it. The one thing that interests me is, obviously you move Alex Gau-Cenio because he is a burden on the salary cap, right?

but the penguins have all this LTIR space. Well, if you're moving Alex Galchinik out to clear more space, when Zucker would have fit into where Gensel fit in, what assets can you reasonably trade for other pieces and what kind of other pieces do you go for if you're Jim Ruther? Yeah, that's also a very, very good question. And, you know, I've seen people poke around a little bit on Twitter. Just some fans talk about potentially getting another defenseman

with the injury update today, case you guys do not know, John Marino will be out three to six weeks with the facial fracture, though, listening to the penultimate podcast and reading Rob Rossi's piece. It sounds like it's going to be potentially sooner rather than later, which is really good news. I think Brian Dumlin will hopefully be back in the next couple weeks. So, I mean, I could see them getting a defenseman, but I don't think it's going to be someone like Alec Martinez

who would improve this team. You know, if you're three left-handed defensemen on the, team down the left side are, you know, Marcus Pedersen, Brian Duman, and Alec Martinez, and then your right side, you can just draw out Justin Schultz, Chris Latang, and John Marino. That's a pretty good defense, of course, without Jack Johnson. But do I see that happening? I just don't think so, Jeff. I think that the price for Alec Martinez is going to be too high, and I think his, I have to

check his salary situation, but I just think a lot more teams are going to be interested in him, which is going to drive up the price out of the Penguins range. Oh, I agree. I think there might be an under-the-radar type of target that Rutherford would be looking at, you know, one of the names that nobody ever talks about and he acquires them. And you're like, whoa, I had no suspicion he would get that guy. Very realistic. Yeah, I've seen people throwing – the name I've seen throwing around a little bit, Jeff, is one of our old friends, Trevor Daly from the Detroit Red Wings. And he makes way too much money, and I don't really think he's that good anymore, to be honest. You know me. I love antiques.

Yeah. Yeah, that's really funny. But also, Jeff, just to get back to the team just for a second, I know that they're a little ravaged by injuries. Are you a little concerned with how they've been, I know they've been obviously winning these games lately. They're on a roll. Have you been a little concerned with how they've played a little bit,

how they're getting out-attempted, you know, their possessions gone down a little bit, starting to go. Absolutely not. Look who they're missing. They're missing, Dumlin and Marino. Dumlin, a very, very steady presence, and Marino himself, one of the best defensemen in the hockey league so far. I'll die on that hill.

You know, I don't think it's any worried that they've taken a dip, given that, you know, they've been heavily relying on Johnson with Latang. I mean, you're just not going to get any kind of good production out of that pairing. you know Pedersen has been okay Schultz has lost to step I think because of the two injuries to his legs over the last couple of years

Yeah that's the biggest reason Right it's decent But it'll do for the time being But very much looking forward to Marino and Duglin getting back Just to get some stability on the back end Yeah then you can shelter Schultz

Which I think he needs at this point Like you said the injuries have I think played the biggest toll on Schultz we know that he can be a good player because he's shown it here in Pittsburgh those first two seasons that he was here. Then the injuries came with the broken ankle. Then this year with the six weeks off with that lower body injury, I don't really know what that injury was. No one really specified it.

It's just lower body. And now you come back and you're facing these four of the really, really good teams in the East. You know, the Flyers surprise. The Capitals are one of the league's best teams. They play the Panthers, of course, the Lightning. And they're going to play the Lightning again tomorrow night, which we'll get to later. And, you know, it's just those are some games that are hard, I think, to come back from for a player like that who's missed almost two months with a lower body injury.

But I think when they get these two defensemen back, it will just get the pressure off him a little bit. And sure, you know, he's probably going to play with Jack Johnson. There's no. They got it. The sooner Jack Johnson gets off the top pairing, obviously the better he tanks anyone's numbers on the top pairing. And they just, they can't keep going with that top pairing much longer. because you don't want to use more a lot, just a lot of his minutes.

You just got to shelter his minutes because that's where he's probably best at this point. Yeah, it's probably not good considering Jack Johnson is not a good player. It's what's best for him at this point because we all know they're going to keep playing him. So, I mean, those two defensemen just cannot come back soon enough. I agree. Yeah. I mean, you could debate what's the bigger loss. is a doom line for an extended period of time.

Marino, Gensel. I mean, all of this, these are not replacement players. These are not like, you know, third, fourth liners that if they're not playing each night, you're like, oh, okay. I mean, you're really out of some of your best players, and obviously that's going to take a tool on what you're doing. So I've actually been pleasantly surprised for what the penguins have been able to do against the team like the Florida Panthers.

That's ridiculously skilled. It plays a good, fast game. So, yeah, I've actually been happy with their play. Yeah, they think that the Panthers' top six is probably one of more underrated groups, I think, in the league. I think a lot of people understand that there's a lot of talent. And that top six, of course, with Barkoff, Hubertow, you know, Dadenov, Hoffman. Trochek. Yeah, Trochek.

Yeah, he's outstanding, too. Oh, Pittsburgh native, if you didn't forget. But that was, I thought the Penguins in that game. I didn't like some of the odd man rushes they gave up. I think that it's going to start to go down. once they get both of those defensemen back. I understand that. I just don't like how it's become a little sloppy.

Giving up a goal a minute after the penguin score. I felt like I was watching. It was almost like a game against the Islanders from the spring where they did that. They gave up a goal right after they scored, which was kind of a little annoying, but I know that's not going to be the norm. This team really hasn't been doing that all season. And I really like the goaltending situation too.

You know, you just keep rotating them. I know I'm comfortable. I think you are too with either one starting game one in the playoffs. I don't see a problem with it. I think honestly for tomorrow, I think they're probably going to go to Tristan Jari because Matt Murray already saw them. He played pretty, pretty well. Now I think they're maybe wanting to go to Jari to have him play Tampa again,

to have him see all these good teams. And forget, Jari is going to have to see the capitals at some point this season two. He's probably going to start at least one or two of those games. So, I mean, I really like the cold-tending situation. with them too, Jeff. Oh, absolutely. Having two number one goaltenders is a great problem to have. Luxury many teams don't have two, or one starting goaltender.

I mean, you look at teams like the Leafs, which are just having so much trouble, goaltending. They've got all the offense in the world, but what's the offense if you can't save any punks? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and they're Frederick Anderson. It looks like he's getting closer returning, but then they gave him up a bunch to get Jack Campbell, who's kind of a little bit of meh, I think at this point in his career,

I think that was a little bit of a panic trade for them as they're just fighting to get into the playoffs. But overall, Jeff, I mean, I'm excited for this game tomorrow, especially against Tampa again, they get another crack at them. I thought overall they beat, I think they controlled the play for about 40 of those 60 minutes. Definitely, I think, at least over half the game, maybe probably two full periods. It was just their first period that kind of let them down. and of course, Andre Vasselowski was a monster. The Penguin PowerPlay was absolutely a disgrace.

But hopefully they found a fix. They scored a PowerPlay goal against the Panthers, which was nice. I think that broke their 0-4-11 slump. They've had a bunch of powerplay slumps this season, which you don't really ever see in the Sydney Crosby of Guinea-Malkin era, considering just how they usually have a top-five powerplay every year. But it has been a daunting task this year. And, of course, it doesn't help when Jake Gensel's almost lost for the season now.

And they've had to go stretches without Malcon. Crosby, Latang, Gensel, like we already said. It's just, it's hard to have good numbers when a lot of those guys have had to rotate back in. But still, now that they're almost fully healthy, the fact that the unit is kind of still meh, it's a little concerning, but I think they're hopefully going to figure out at some point. At least they're not giving up shorthanded goals. Right. You know, when you take any player like Phil Kessel away from a power play,

It's going to, we knew coming into the season that it was going to be tough to rework. And that's just the fact of life. But, you know, obviously the injury against, nobody could have predicted. And it's, I think it's just going to be a process where they really need to figure out what works and what doesn't. I think Zooker is going to help absolutely on the power play. And the one, my one regret about Alex Colchino is that they didn't utilize them enough on the power play. That's really a specialty. It's not a defensive player.

We knew that. But, I mean, he's really kind of like a poor man sniper, if you will, and in that regard, I mean, they kind of, I feel like they didn't use Galchenioch either. Yeah, no, I hear you. And I do think that Zucker, yeah, he's definitely going to get power play time. I don't think it will be on the first unit. Well, well, actually, well, with Jake Gensel's injury, they actually might put him up there for a little bit. But we'll see. They may keep Ryan Rust on there.

But he's definitely going to have a spot on the second power play. that would be foolish if he did not get a spot on that. But it's just, I'm just so, I'm just still so ecstatic about the deal, of course. And it looks like that he's going to be in the lineup tomorrow night, potentially. And of course, I think you said that Gauchenic is not a good defensive player. I think Zucker, I think his defensive numbers, his underlying numbers have been really good for his career. I think Micah had a real part of the analytics community. He had a really good tweet about how good Jason Zucker is.

Defensively, and that's going to be big to have. It sounds like he's really, really defensively responsible. And combine that with his goal scoring ability and just producing points, this is going to be really, really good for the penguins. Right. I know we talk about off the podcast, we talked about all the different candidates for trades, you know, sod and Crider and.

And I really think pound for pound, given the contract that he's under, given his defensive progress, I think that Zucker is going to be a great fit. If Crider had a couple more years and Crider was the winger in Minnesota and not in New York, might have made a little more sense, especially if he had the same contract that Zucker has. But I think, you know, Criter, it's going to be too much to pay for a rental. And I think Rutherford realized that. and New York probably didn't want to move on that this soon. Yeah, I absolutely agree with that.

I think people are, I think the price for Chris Crider is going to be interesting to see, considering what Jason Zucker got and how they're, I think, pretty decently comparable with their goal scoring abilities. I think someone is probably going to make a mistake by, if that's the price on Chris Crider, someone's going to make a serious mistake because that's, I think, a little too much to pay for a rental, like you said. And, you know, just getting the three plus years of the, term. I mean, we all know that's what Jim Rutherford's specialty is. He doesn't usually like to

go for rentals. I know he said it in a couple articles that the last couple weeks, but almost every trade he's made here, all the players have termed. The Jared McCann trade, Phil Kessel, now Zucker, and then going back a bunch of other trades that he's made. I had to have to name them off the top of my head. Justin Schultz, you know, Trevor, it wasn't I think Trevor Daly? yeah, he had term left on his deal too. So it's no secret what kind of trades Jim likes to make. And, you know, they're hockey trades for players that have term, not for rentals who are just going to walk after the season.

And you're giving away prime assets for a player that's only going to be there for, what, three months? So, I mean, I completely understand him doing this for this kind of player. Right. I just, it really struck me suspicious when, you know, okay, the time frame for Nick Bukes' dad was. that he wasn't coming back, you know, it was eight weeks, nine weeks,

ten weeks, and then Jim Rutherford finally comes out and says, hey, look, maybe I don't need a trade for a player with the term. Maybe I could trade for a rental. And I don't know if he was trying to Tim Garron's hand there, or, you know, whether he was kind of insisting on, you know what, we might have to pony up

for Criter. But obviously things worked out. I just thought that was funny. I wanted to point that out that he suddenly had this heel turn where, you know, okay, we'll get a rental if we have to. Yeah, no, I hear, I absolutely agree. Yeah, it was, that kind of found me a little suspicious as well. I was like, oh, yeah, like, we may be trade for rental.

I'm like, you never trade for rental, so I don't really think that's probably going to happen. I understand how candid he is with the media. He's probably the most candid GM out there, to be honest. Just talks and talks and talks. But, yeah, when I read that too, I was like, I don't think you're really going to do that, considering all your other trades have been players for term. But overall, just a great trade for the Penguins. A great day to be obviously a Penguins fan.

It sounds like he's going to be in the lineup tomorrow night. I was reading some Jim Rutherford for quotes on a few other stories. They're going to try to get him in there tonight, getting him in the game against Tampa. And then it'll just keep going. He'll play off obviously Friday for the next three and a half season. So it's great to get him. Hopefully they'll be able to make a deep playoff run and get Jake Gensel back because, Whoa boy, that would be a frightening lineup to look at it.

The Penguins are fully healthy. Forward's defense with Genssela. Oh, unbelievable. And there are two goalies that you can start either goalie, and it really won't make a difference. So there's the potential that this could be a potentially very special season, I think, in the making here for the Penguins. I hope so, man.

I hope so. Me too, man. To get that fourth cut, like I said, you're in mortality stage. That would be pretty something special. But Jeff, thank you so much, as always, for coming on the podcast. Hey, my pleasure. Yeah, we'll definitely have you on again at some point. Probably closer to the deadline again to see if the Penguins make another trade

or as we get closer to the playoff time. So, yeah, thanks again, man. I really appreciate it. No problem. Thank you. Perfect, yeah. So we'll have another episode coming tomorrow. I'm not really sure what I'm going to talk about yet, considering this was a really big day for the Penguins.

But I may do that probably after the game, honestly. Probably talk about what happened with the Tampa Pittsburgh. game. But thank you guys so much for listening, and we will talk to you all tomorrow night.