Locked On Penguins - Daily Podcast On The Pittsburgh Penguins - Looking at a Penguins silly season Mitch Marner trade idea

Starting point is 00:00:00 One Kyle Dubus's connections to Mitch Marner are both well-known and well-documented. But is there a world where the Pittsburgh Penguins could trade for Mitch Marner and bring him in for next season? Your Locked-on Penguins, your daily podcast on the Pittsburgh Penguins, part of the Locked-on Podcast Network, your team every day. Hello and welcome back to another edition of the Locked-on Penguins podcast. I'm one of your host Patrick Damp. You can follow me on Twitter at Synonym 4Wet. joined as always by the one and only Hunter Hodes. You can follow him on Twitter at Hunter Hodes.

Starting point is 00:00:40 You can give our show's account a follow at L0 underscore Penguins. And we thank you for making this your first listener watch of the day because we're your team every day. And don't forget we are free and available wherever you get your podcast as well as YouTube. And before we get started, today's episode is brought to you by GameTime. Download the GameTime app, create an account and use code locked on NHL for $20. off your first purchase terms apply. So Hunter, before we dive into this, just for the record, just so it's out there, what we are

Starting point is 00:01:14 about to discuss is just a silly season proposal from a mailbag article on the athletic about a Mitch Marner trade, obviously one of the biggest headlines of this offseason, but it involves the Pittsburgh Penguins. And to be fair, once we dive into it, it actually does make some sense. But again, this is not a report. It's not a rumor. It is just the equivalent of someone firing up NHL 24 and trying to make a trade in be a GM mode. So let's dive into this proposal from Jason F.

Starting point is 00:01:51 And it is a three-team trade involving the Pittsburgh Penguins, the Los Angeles Kings, and the Toronto Maple Leafs. So here's how this would break down. The penguins would send to the Los Angeles. Kings goaltender Tristan Jari and defenseman Jack St. Iveney. The Los Angeles Kings would send to Toronto, defenseman Drew Doudi, and the Penguins would get from Toronto forward Mitch Marner. Now, I did a little back of the napkin math on this one, so I may be a few dollars off here or there, but if my cap-friendly calculations are correct, if you move Jari and Jack St. Ivany to the Kings, you free up just a shade over $6 million, which would up their

Starting point is 00:02:38 off-season cap space to $19 million. Then once you bring in Mitch Marner's salary, which is just a shade under $11 million. However, if this trade does happen post-July 1, Mitch Marner gets a big old bonus from the Toronto Maple Leafs and his actual dollars are pretty affordable, but that's beside the point. That cap hit would take the penguins down to just a shade over $8 million in cap space available this off season. So Hunter, your thoughts on this fan proposal for a Mitch Martin trade that would bring him to the Pittsburgh Penguins. Yeah, I mean, you can build the Kyle Duba statue if he's able to pull off that type of deal in my opinion. I mean, yeah, it's maybe a tad annoying if Jackson, Ivany and Tristan Jari go.

Starting point is 00:03:29 but you can replace St. Ivany, I think, through free agency. Tristan Jari, it's maybe a little bit tricky just because the free agent market is not that good. But that's a situation where I think I go after Alex Nadelcovich to come back and then he can be your number 1A goalie for next season. And if you want to get a 1B, whether it's free agency or have Blumquist come up from the HL, I think that type of situation would work, especially if Blumquist is ready to go after training camp. in the preseason. But you're still getting the best player in this deal.

Starting point is 00:04:04 Does he make a lot of money? Sure. But this is a player that can help you win right now. And that I think is what's most important, at least for this year and this core, when it comes to the Pittsburgh Penguins. I understand that Marner and the whole Toronto Maple Leafs organization is really underachieved in the core four era.

Starting point is 00:04:23 But I do want to stress to everyone that this is still very much an elite player in the NHL. I think if you're out there saying that you would not like this player on your team, I kind of think you're lying to yourselves a little bit. If you're able to get him for honestly not that much on the market and don't get me wrong, people, I don't think the penguins are going to get Marner. I don't think they're going to be able to pull off a trade for him just because I think the Maple Leafs are going to want assets back that the penguins honestly don't have. But say the penguins do get him in this fantasy role just because, again, we're doing silly season. It's the end of May. Bear with us here.

Starting point is 00:04:58 let's say they get him. This is a player that can score at will. He's a great playmaker. He can play at least fine defense in his own zone, and he makes this team better for this year. He also replaces Jake Gensel, which is massive for this team heading in the next season. I thought Michael Bunting did obviously a great job

Starting point is 00:05:17 in the aftermath of the Gensel trade, but I still think there are one more top six winger short when I look at this roster right now. But another thing about this trade, you have lesser cap space and you need to make a lot more moves if you want to fill out this bottom six because we've been saying throughout this off season, that's still, I think, the number one priority for this team. You make this move. Okay, you get a great player.

Starting point is 00:05:44 You have to figure up a goalie situation, which I already discussed. You can replace Jackson and I have any number six defensemen. But who is going to play in the bottom six? Who are you going to go out there and get in free agency or trade? you're going to have to open up more cap space via trade and it just it gets a little bit trickier that way but i mean i still would make that trade and figure out the rest of it a little bit later even though again i think it still gets a bit tricky yeah if this trade this proposal from jason was possible i would do this trade eight days a week yeah because again it's very similar in a sense

Starting point is 00:06:19 to the eric carlson trade where you don't give up a whole ton and you end up getting the best player in the deal. But at the same time, back to the Marner part of it, this is a bona fide great player. I mean, he has had 97 points, 99 points, 85 points in ascending order from the last three seasons. And in those seasons, he has put up 62 assists, 69 assists, 59 assists, 59 assists, and then 35 goals, 30 goals, 26 goals. And this year, he didn't play a full season.

Starting point is 00:06:53 and he only played 69 games and still put up 85 points. This is a genuinely great player. The other thing I said to you before we hit record here, I could see this being a Phil Kessel 2.0 kind of trade from an intangible standpoint because you bring him here and at the very tip top of it, he's the number three guy in terms of prominence. Obviously, you got sit at the top and then Gino or Latang,

Starting point is 00:07:21 and then you can quibble between him and Carlson for the third or fourth spot. So he won't be under as much of a spotlight here as he is in Toronto. Because in Toronto it goes Austin Matthews, Mitch Marner. That's the order. He is the number two guy. You can maybe argue William Nealander, but at the same time, he is the second or third guy and people go right to him especially because he has that added pressure of being from Toronto.

Starting point is 00:07:50 So he is looked at as the guy. And he said it as much in his postseason presser when it got completely misconstrued. But he said, you know, we're treated like gods in Toronto. And he's right. But the responsibility that comes with that can be a lot on a player's mentality. Yeah, I mean, he wouldn't have to be one of the top leaders on this team. We all know how great this core leadership group is. And you can throw Brian Russ in there too.

Starting point is 00:08:17 He's obviously developed into one heck of a league. leader ever since coming up to the Penguins. But, you know, also for Marner, but one thing you do have to think about in this hilarious proposal, he only has this year left on his contract. You look at the Penguin's salary cap situation going forward. I don't know if they will be able to extend him after the season just because, again, you look at it overall with all those long-term deals right now. heck, you also have Marcus Pedersen lined up for a potential extension after this upcoming season.

Starting point is 00:08:54 What's going on with there? You have Ricard Raquel still on your cap. Riley Smith, at least right now, is under contract. Obviously, Crosby, but he's also due for New Deal as well. Evgeny Malkin, Chris LaTang, Eric Carlson. There's only so much you can do, even though the cap is going up. So I would kind of see this as a one-year rental for going on. all in one more time.

Starting point is 00:09:19 As what I, I think, and I also think that throws a wrench in the proposal. I get the feeling that wherever he ends up, he's basically going to want to have some kind of extension in hand, whether it's medium or long term. I think he wants that security wherever he goes. But then the other end of this, you kind of touched on it there a little bit. If you make this trade, I think this would become an offseason of radical change for the Pittsburgh penguins. And I don't mean that in the sense of Crosby, Malkin, Latang, Carlson. And I think you can again throw Brian Rust in there because by all reporting they've told Russ they're not going to

Starting point is 00:09:57 move on from him. They're going to honor his no move clause. So at this point, I think that also puts you in a tough spot. You brought up Marcus Pedersen's name. You look at everybody else who makes a significant amount of salary on this team outside of the core. There's not a lot of value there because Riley Smith, that's going to be, I think, easier to move because there's only one year left. But again, values not that high. He had a rough season. Ricard Raquel, again, rough season, a few more years left at the same salary that Riley Smith has. That's going to be hard to move.

Starting point is 00:10:34 Ryan Graves, there's no way they're going to be able to move that because his value is probably at rock bottom. So that leaves Marcus Pedersen, who is probably going. to fetch you the most return and to bring you more cap space. And then you still have to, like you said, figure out what you're going to do in net if you ship off Tristan Jari because maybe Joel Blumquist is ready. Maybe he's not. But you don't want to put yourself under that eight ball.

Starting point is 00:11:02 You don't want to have no answer there. In the UFA class for goaltenders this summer is not a good one. So while this trade on its face looks like it would work, I think it would mean a lot of changes on this roster. And maybe that's a good thing, but it becomes very difficult to turn this team from a top heavy unit that would have Mitch Marner there. But then there would not be much else behind them. Yeah, I mean, I do think it would work. Again, I would make the trade basically every day of the week because the Penguins would be getting the best player back in the deal.

Starting point is 00:11:37 But then you would have to finangle your way around some more salary cap situations. with players still on this roster. You'll have to move out a player or two that makes a decent salary. You brought up Marcus Pedersen as much as I would hate to see him go. When you look at the players value-wise, he would obviously bring back emotions because of how great of a season he just had in 2023, 2024. But at the end of the day, this is very much silly season, very much fantasy land.

Starting point is 00:12:06 I don't think it's going to happen. But, you know, seeing Marner on this team somehow, some way, It would be a lot of fun. This team would be a blast to watch with him riding shotgun to him getting him Alkin or Cindy Prosby. It would be a ton of fun. And again, like Hunter said, it's silly season stuff. It's not something that we think is going to happen.

Starting point is 00:12:27 But we shall see. I don't think Mitch Martin becomes a penguin, but I'll gladly go cold takes exposed on that one if Kyle Dubas figures out a way to make it work. But that is going to do it for the first segment of this edition of the Locked-on Penguins podcast. When we come back, we are going to talk about somebody who technically is still here. And we're going to look back on the season that Pierre Olivier Joseph had. But before we do that, we've got to tell you about our first sponsor, and that is game time. We are in the most exciting time of the sports calendar with the NBA playoffs and the Stanley Cup playoffs well underway.

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Starting point is 00:14:39 I'm Patrick Damp. That's Hunter. Hodes. So let's talk about a guy who is still an RFA going into this summer. He has not yet been, at least not to our knowledge, tendered an offer or resigned to any deal. And that is defenseman Pierre Olivier Joseph. And for POJ, not a bad season for him. A little bit of injuries here and there only played 52 games, but he did record two goals, nine assists for 11 points in those 52 games. Definitely not his best season. That was 22, 23. when in 75 games he had five goals and 16 assists for 21 points. Overall, though,

Starting point is 00:15:16 I think we're starting to see more of a maturation from POJ. I don't think that his ceiling is as high as we once hoped it would be, but he definitely is starting to look like a guy that you could trust to be on maybe your second pairing and in a pinch with injuries or whatever else may occur. could be a top pairing guy in a temporary role. So overall, Hunter, your thoughts on POJ's season this year. Yeah, I really think this was a step in the right direction for PO Joseph. We should also add that Joseph was scratched during portions of the season in favor of Ryan, Chey and John Lovedig.

Starting point is 00:15:52 And I was against that just because I felt he was the better of those two players. And that showed down the stretch where I think Joseph played some of his best hockey in a penguin's uniform. He was playing better in the corners, winning more puck battles in his own zone. He was defending a lot better overall in his own zone as well, winning a lot of one-on-ones defensively. And he was also playing a lot better in the offensive zone as well. I saw him working on his shot quite a bit throughout the season.

Starting point is 00:16:19 It wasn't that quote-unquote muffin shot that we saw throughout his square. He was actually putting some more umph into it and driving some offense for the Penguins. He was also working on his pinching a little bit as well. And Mike Sullivan rewarded him late in the season when he put him with Chris LaTang. And that pairing, it had some mixed results throughout this season. They played 371 minutes together at 5 on 5 when those two were on the ice, 18 goals for, 20 goals against. But they only had 46% of the shot attempts,

Starting point is 00:16:50 41% of the expected goals, 44% of the swain chances, and 43% of the high danger chances. I appreciate Sullivan promoting Joseph and rewarding him for his play. But him and Latang just didn't work as well this year as it had in previous years. In fact, Joseph works better without Letang. And the minutes without Latang were pretty similar this season, 364 minutes without Latang as his partner.

Starting point is 00:17:17 And when Joseph was on the ice with any other partner, the Penguins had 51% of the shot attempts. They also had 53% of the expected goals, 52% of scoring chances, about 54% of the high danger chances. So at this point in Joseph's career, I don't think he's a top pairing defenseman. I think if the Penguins enter next season

Starting point is 00:17:33 with him on their top pairing, I think they're a little up a creek in terms of their defensive pairs. I also really don't want him playing with Eric Carlson on the second pair. I just don't think that's a good fit for either player. I think Joseph best serves this team on the third pair. And if he is on your third pair with Salt Mike Jackson, Ivaney, I really like the makings of that pairing. I think that could be one of the more underrated third pairings around the league.

Starting point is 00:18:00 And it had also come really cheap just because I don't think Joseph is going to ask for too much on his next deal. Remember, he's a RFA this off season. I do think the Penguins are going to bring him back on a one or two year deal. But I think at the very least, he has shown why he is an NHL caliber defenseman in the NHL. I would bring him back if I'm Caledubis on a short term, short AAV, a V, excuse me, type deal. I would too. And you look at what he made this year, 825,000. I don't think he might get a little bit of a raise, maybe up into a million, maybe just under a million 950, something like that. And the funny thing about the Joseph Latang pairing is that's one of those classic moments

Starting point is 00:18:43 where the analytics don't match the eye test because they looked like they worked pretty well together when you watch the games. And then you look at the results in the statistics and it really didn't. So that's a very bizarre moment. At the same time, I think this kind of gets into a bigger issue that the penguins have. going into next season. And that's the fact that we don't really know what they need to do with this defense because you still have the Ryan Graves issue.

Starting point is 00:19:12 And you don't want to see him again with Chris Latang unless he really starts to up his game throughout training camp and into the regular season. And finally, plays to the contract that he is signed to. And then if that works out, then I think you're on Easy Street again because then you can have POJ, Jack St. Ivan. is your third pair and you're doing pretty well when it comes to your defense because then you have Eric Carlson and Marcus Pedersen, which we have seen is a very good pairing. So it really all comes back to the fact that they've got to figure out what they have in Ryan Graves and if this is

Starting point is 00:19:49 ever going to work. Right. I mean, right now on the left side, just the left side for this defense, you have Marcus Pedersen, who is a bona fide top four defenseman can play on the top pairing or the second pairing, but you have P.O. Joseph, who best serves you as a third pairing defenseman, and then Ryan Graves, who also right now is a third pairing defenseman based on the way he played this past season. You don't want him with Eric Carlson. That pairing was an absolute disaster this past year, and it wasn't much better with Chris Lutang. So this kind of does stem on Graves bouncing back, but I just don't know, we just did a season review. I still don't know how confident I am in that just based on how he played this past season.

Starting point is 00:20:32 So they are still very much lacking another true top four defensemen. Right now, again, they only have one of them and they have two bottom pairing defensemen. So that's a really big question heading into this offseason here. It's a huge question mark for this team. But we will see what happens. That'll do it though. Overall, I think I would give him about a C for the season around that. Maybe minus to a C for me. I think he really went in the right direction in the second half of the season.

Starting point is 00:21:03 His first half wasn't that inspiring. But I still felt like he was the better of the options on the bottom pair on the left side. And that only came more true in the second half of the season. I still think there's more room for him to grow as a member of this team. Yeah, right there with you. Same grade. Same kind of overall recap there. But that'll do it for this segment. When we come back, it is due. or die time for Braden Yeager and the Moose Jaw Warriors. We will talk about their matchup with the London Knights from last night and what they're facing moving forward right after this. All right, we're back here on the Tuesday edition of the Locked-on Penguins podcast.

Starting point is 00:21:46 One more time, I'm Patrick Damp. That's Hunter Hodes. And it's do or die time for the Moose Jaw Warriors after they dropped yet another game in the Memorial Cup to a similar score, five to four. to the London Knights. And this pretty much sets it up for the Moose Jaw Warriors that if they want to keep their season alive and play for the Memorial Cup, their game tonight against Drummondville is a must win game.

Starting point is 00:22:15 But before we get into that, not the best of games, but also not the worst games for Braden Yeager held off the score sheet in a 5-4 loss. But he did appear to do the things. we have said we want to see him to do. Right. Yeah. No, I was trying to flip back and forth between that outstanding game three of Oiler Stars and this game for Mooshaw in London.

Starting point is 00:22:39 And yes, you're right. Yeager was held off the score sheet, but it wasn't for a lack of trying. He was generating offense every time he was out there getting quite a few quality scoring chances, but the puck was just not going in the back of the net. Sometimes that happens for star players in hockey games. But Yeager was still doing everything in his power. to try and Will Moose Jaw to a win here. And, you know, Moose Jaw got off to a good start.

Starting point is 00:23:01 They went up won nothing, but London just blitzed them right after that. And then you saw Moose Jaw come back a little bit. The biggest thing is with Moose Jaw, they've been in both of these games. They've been able to stay competitive. But we discussed this before we hit the record button. They're just getting nothing from their special teams. They can't score on the power play. And their penalty kill is below 70% right now.

Starting point is 00:23:24 And it goes back to something I've said quite often. on this show. You can win with one of your special teams units being pretty good and your other one being okay to kick kind of meh. But you can't win when both of your special teams units are flat out bat. And Teddy downstairs agrees. My wonderful German Shepherd agrees with that. So they just need both of their penalty kill and their power play to be a lot better if they want to beat Drummondville and go to the semifinals on Friday. And when you look at the way that the more Memorial Cup tournament has shaken out to this point. This is actually in a roundabout way,

Starting point is 00:24:02 an advantageous place for Moose Jaw to be because obviously London and Saginaw have now clinched their spot in the little playoff tournament that comes at the end of this round Robin. And there's one more spot up for grabs, and that's going to basically be what gets determined tonight in the Moose Jaw Drummondville game. But then you look at a team like Drummondville in what they've done, they also have an identical O and two records.

Starting point is 00:24:27 as Moose Jaw does, but you look at Drummondville and they've only scored three goals. They've given up eight. The difference here, though, is what we were just talking about, the special teams. Drummondville's power play, 25%. Their PK, 80%. But you compare the two teams, Moose Jaw has much better top end talent. So if Moose Jaw wants to get a chance to play either Saginaw again or London again, depending on what happens with those two teams in the semi-final,

Starting point is 00:25:01 they've got to pull out a win tonight against Drummondville. That's at 7.30 tonight. Should they get a win in that game, that will punch their ticket to the semi-final game in the Memorial Cup? Yeah, I mean, when you're down like this, you need your best players to be your best players. You know, Matichuk, he's been awesome for Muscha. That's also someone who I should have discussed a lot more when it comes to this team.

Starting point is 00:25:25 He's been fantastic throughout the W. HL playoffs and the Memorial Cup. He was great in that game against London. He needs to be good again tonight, but also Yeager, Fercas, Savoy. They all need to play at the top of their level if Muschaw wants to advance the semifinals on Friday. Really looking forward to see how Moosechaw's high-end talent performs in this game. Again, they've been in both of these games.

Starting point is 00:25:49 They just need their special teams to be a bit better. And they also need to not go into these long lulls where they just kind of get outplayed. That's kind of happened against both Saginaw and London where they get off to decent starts, but whether it's Saginaw or London, they just take over the game for 15, 20, 25 minutes, and it puts Moosechaw in a hole. And sure, Moose Jaw is able to come back and make it competitive. But if they don't go into those holes, you know, who knows where they are right now? I don't know if they're 0.2, but they just need to play a more consistent 60 minute effort tonight.

Starting point is 00:26:23 Yep. it all comes down to, like you said, getting the special teams back in order and putting together a full 60 minute effort. Because even with the lack of special team success, if you don't go into those five, 10, 15, 20 minute lulls where you just have it, have yourself getting caved in, maybe those games come out a little different because we've seen it. Like, even though it is difficult to win in any major hockey postseason with bad special teams. It still is possible if you put together a full 60 minute effort to overcome that.

Starting point is 00:26:58 And Moose Jaw is going to have to do that tonight against Drummondville. But unless you have got anything left to add, Hunter, that is going to do it for the Tuesday edition of the Locked-on Penguins podcast. We will be back tomorrow with some more season and reviews, maybe some more silly season stuff. We'll see what shakes out over the next 24 hours or so. But for Hunter Hodes, I am Patrick Damp. Thank you, as always for tuning in. and we will talk to you on Wednesday.

Locked On Penguins - Daily Podcast On The Pittsburgh Penguins - Looking at a Penguins silly season Mitch Marner trade idea

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