Locked On Penguins - Daily Podcast On The Pittsburgh Penguins - Mapping out the future of the Pittsburgh Penguins with Josh Yohe!

Episode Date: February 11, 2025

The Athletic's Josh Yohe returns to Locked On Penguins to discuss the state of the Pittsburgh Penguins during the two-week break. Hunter, Patrick, and Josh start the show by discussing the Marcus Pettersson and Drew O'Connor trade and what direction Kyle Dubas is taking this team in over the next couple of seasons. They also discuss what to expect with future trades before they talk about the future of the big three and how aggressive Kyle Dubas could be during the offseason. After that, they discuss whether Dubas could flip that other first-round pick for a younger player and get an update on Mike Sullivan's job status. Finally, Josh makes his picks for the Four Nations Faceoff.Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors! IndeedNow, you can speed up your hiring process with a $75 Sponsored Job Credit. Just go to Indeed.com/LOCKEDON right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Terms and conditions apply. FactorEat smart with Factor. Get started at factormeals.com/lockedonnhl50off and use code LOCKEDONNHL50OFF to get 50% off your first box plus free shipping. Wonderful PistachiosGet snackin’ and get crackin’ with the snack that packs a protein punch. Visit WonderfulPistachios.com to learn more! FanDuelToday's episode is brought to you by FanDuel. Right now, new FanDuel customers can get ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY DOLLARS in Bonus Bets if your first FIVE DOLLAR bet wins! FANDUEL DISCLAIMER: 21+ in select states. First online real money wager only. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG (CO, IA, MD, MI, NJ, PA, IL, VA, WV), 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (WY, KS) or visit ksgamblinghelp.com (KS), 1-877-770-STOP (LA), 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The Pittsburgh Penguins may be off for the next couple of weeks, but Pat and I, sure or not. And with that, we have Josh Yoey of the Athletic to discuss all things penguins coming up right after this. You're locked on penguins, your daily podcast on the Pittsburgh Penguins, part of the Locked-on Podcast Network, your team every day. Well, and welcome back to another episode of the Lockdown Penguins podcast. I am one of your host, Hunter Hodes. You can follow me on Twitter at Hunter Hodes, joined by my Coast, Patrick Damping and follow him on all social media platforms at Sendin'Frewett. And joining us today for the first time in quite a while, it's Josh Yoey of the Athletic. Josh, how are you enjoying your two-week break from covering this crazy hockey team?

Well, there's still things to write about with this crazy hockey team because the, you know, four nations breaks. That doesn't mean, you know, people don't need their fix on, you know, what's going on with the trade deadline, et cetera. But it's nice to have a little bit of a break. And like you guys, I'll be watching the games anyway, because I am a hockey snob at heart and the best players in the world are about the play. So it might be a silly little tournament, but we'll be watching, right?

Yes, of course. 100%. I know there's some people out there that don't want to watch this, but I'm still going to eat this up. It's our first best on best competition, at least for these four countries in quite a while. And I'm going to enjoy every second of it. Again, it's kind of like the appetizer to the main course next year where you're going to get the Olympics and obviously a lot more NHL players are going to be in there.

But I'm still going to enjoy this very much. Of course, everyone, thank you all so much for taking the time to make this your first listen slash watch of the day. We both appreciate it. And of course, today's episode is brought to you by FanDuel. Right now, new customers can get $150 in bonus bets if your first $5 bet win. So, Josh, Penguins, they started their selling a bit early before the Four Nations face off break, trading Marcus Patterson and Drew O'Connor to the Vancouver Canucks. They got that first round pickback that the Canucks originally got for J.T. Miller.

they got Vinnie Day or Ney, Dan Hinen, and a really fun prospect who has one heck of a shot in Melvin Vernstrom. Josh, you wrote about this trade for the athletic a bit after you were a big fan of it. So were we. But what really stood out to you about this trade that made you a big fan of it? Well, I mean, it's a pretty black and white thing just to get a first round pick for that package. To me, it was pretty impressive. And it could potentially become a fairly good first round pick. This isn't going to be like the 30. pick in the draft. The Rangers aren't that good. We don't know yet if it will be 25 or 26, but I would tell Penguins fans, you know, don't get too disappointed if it ends up being the 2026 pick because as many people probably know that by all accounts is a phenomenal draft. So to have a chance to have a, and we don't know how good the Rangers are going to be moving

forward. Like, assuming their goalies is healthy, I don't think they're ever going to bottom out. but that's an older team than people realize, and there's something not right with that team. So I think that there's a good chance of whatever year it is that could be, you know, the 15th pick in the draft, something like that for Marcus Pedersen and Drew O'Connor, both on expiring contracts. Like, I like Marcus and Drew, like good players. They're not great players to get that kind of value back. And you mentioned the prospect they got to as a guy that they're really interested in because

of that shot that you mentioned. I thought it was a great trade for the penguins. And I can see why Kyle did not wait until the deadline. When our old pal Jim Rutherford got his hands on a first round pick, he was ready to move. It took like an hour to make the trade happen. So obviously, Kyle was waiting for that. But no, I mean, listen, you never know what first round picks will amount to. And that's years down the road, I realize.

But that's a really good trade. That's a good piece of business as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, we were obviously huge fans of it because, as you said, we echoed it on this show at the time, being able to turn two expiring deals into a first round pick is no matter how you cut it, a great piece of business. But in that sense, with the trade he made there and all the work he's done pretty much since the Jake Gensel trade, you wrote something, I think it was probably about 10 days ago. It was not long after this trade.

You had a great piece on the athletic that you called Kyle Dubus stopped trying to please everyone and the penguins are better because of it. And being that you're around this team pretty much every day, I think you sum this up really well. And I kind of want to get your thoughts overall on Kyle Dubus's work, basically since the Jake Gensel trade. But you pretty much said that it was him basically realizing that this is the plan and it has to be the plan moving forward.

It can't be trying to pull a Ron Hextall where you're somehow kind of sort of getting ready for the future, but also you're still focused on winning a Stanley Cup. But basically what I'm working towards here, Josh, is what are your overall thoughts on Kyle Dubus's body of work basically since the Jake Gensel trade to Carolina? Oh, I think they've been really good, and I think there's a clear plan, and that that's the whole point. We all know Kyle screwed up in his first month on the job. I don't need to remind anyone of the Graves contract or the Jari contract. I don't have a problem with the Carlson trade to this day, I still think it was a good trade for the pegments.

I just think he's been disappointing and isn't really the player they need right now. I'm not going to criticize him for that. But those contracts were bad at the time. They look even worse now, and he still has to try to get out from under those. But if you look from the last year on, starting with the Gensel trade, basically he's done nothing but sell, and he's done it really well. And they've got 29 draft picks in the next three drafts. I only had, I think, 27 in the last five drafts.

That's a pretty incredible thing. It's been long overdue. We all know they've needed this, and it's got to be tough. You know, a lot of people say, well, of course you have to be a seller. Of course you have to rebuild. Well, you might think that, but if you're sitting in the GM's chair and you are looking across the table at Mike Sullivan and Sidney Crosby, that changes things.

Those guys want to win right now. Sid doesn't have forever to keep playing. He knows that. I'm sure there were some really difficult conversations. And I think he signed Jari and brought in graves and Carlson and guys like that at Lars Eller to try to help Sid still win right now and rebuild on the fly. It was ambitious and a nice try. It's not going to work. It's almost impossible.

And I think Sid understands that. And I think Mike Sullivan understands it too. They might not like it. But the reality is the core of penguins that remain isn't good enough on its own just to carry a team to a championship. It's not. That's okay. They're old. They're not supposed to be. It's still great. But he needs some help. And when I say help, I don't just mean one or two guys.

I mean a wave of young players who can help maybe win with him at the end of his career and then carry on after he's gone. So everything Kyle has done since then, even like the Cody Glass trade, even though Cody Glass is nothing special. He's still got a third and a sixth round pick from Nashville just to take him because we're in salary cap hell. Like stuff like that. Like that goes a long way. you keep adding all those picks. You're going to hit on some of those picks eventually. That's the name of the game.

And I love the Pedersen trade. And I still think he's going to sell a couple of other players before the deadline in all likelihood. So he has a plan now. And the plan is to rebuild and to rebuild very, very quickly. And you see what's been done in Washington and other places. This doesn't need to be some seven-year plan, right? You can start things really quickly and still keep a couple of guys around who are older, which is what they're doing.

And so I really like the direction he's taking them in right now. Right. It's basically they're rebuilding the rest of the roster, but keeping the big three on it while they're doing it. Like that's kind of the vibe I get. And speaking of that, Josh, you know, you mentioned a couple more trades for the deadline. Do you expect any surprises before the deadline?

Like, because Pat and I, we expect Matt Grizzling to probably get traded. Anthony Vivalier probably get traded. But do you expect any other surprises, you know, maybe someone like Michael Bunting, if they get calls? Obviously, Ricardo Raquel is probably, generating a lot of interest right now. I said on the show yesterday, I would really only do it if I get a first plus a decent player or a good prospect that's ready to play right now back. I would sell really high. And if someone doesn't meet that price, I would just keep him. So do you expect maybe any surprises like

that around the deadline? Or do you think a lot of their business gets done in the summer? It's possible, Hunter. I do think a guy like Grislich makes a lot of sense. He's been very good. He had a bad start to the season, I thought, as everyone did, we're in black and gold. But the way he can run the power play and just his overall body of work, he's not a big guy, but I think defensively he's been way better the last couple of months. There are teams out like, Florida doesn't have anyone to run their power play. Like, I think he makes so much sense there. There are teams that will be interested in him.

If you can get a third round pick for him even, like why keep him unless you're going to resign him, right? Right. So I think a guy like that makes sense. You mentioned Bavillia. Yeah, they have veterans like that who I think teams would be interested in for sure. You mentioned bunting. Nobody ever brings him up. I don't know what the interest is in him necessarily.

And I think he's been pretty good with the penguins, but I also don't think they're in love with him to the point that they wouldn't deal him. And the big name is Raquel. And I wrote about this at the athletic yesterday. And my sense is they've, don't really want to trade Raquel. I don't think they want to take away a 40 goal score from Sid two years in a row. And I know people say, oh, who gives a shit? Well, okay. He's still one of the greatest players of all time and wants people to play with. That's understandable. You have to keep some guys.

And also, he's got three years left on his deal. And given how well he's playing, he is now out playing that contract. Yeah. So there's no rush to trade him. And the thinking might be the cap is going to Skyrocket starting next year, that might make teams even more aggressive to bring in somebody like Raquel. His value might actually be higher in July than it is right now. So I don't think they're going to trade him. But if somebody blows them away, and what I mean by that is if somebody calls Kyle and says, hey, I'm going to give you my first round pick in 26 maybe, which is the one everyone wants, and I'm going to give you this blue chip prospect, our first round pick from a couple of years ago,

something like that. I think Kyle's crazy if he doesn't listen to that. So he's not untradable by any stretch if somebody really blows them away, but it's going to take a certain price. They're hardly desperate to unload him. They shouldn't feel rushed to it. This isn't a situation like Jake or Marcus where you didn't want to go to walk for nothing. So much different circumstance right now with Raquel.

That's pretty much what I said on the show yesterday was when it comes to Raquel, between the skyrocketing salary cap, a very heavy pre-agent class coming this summer should a lot of those guys make it to July 1. His value just increases simply because there's going to be a lot of teams who go, well, we could get Raquel for two more years at $5 million or we're going to have to go sign a guy for $7, $8, $9, or more million for multiple years.

And when the asset cost is simply maybe, a prospect, a first round pick, and a contract we might not want to hold on to, that's a lot easier to swallow than paying a guy a bunch of money for a bunch of years and it doesn't live up to it when you can just have Ricard Raquel for $5 million. The last thing that I was thinking of that I wanted to ask about was the thing that everybody wants to talk about when it comes to this team, and that's the goaltenders. We know how bad Tristan Jari has been. he was recalled because of the Four Nations break.

And obviously people like Blumquist, obviously Sergei Murashov is, he has all the potential in the world. But the guy that I've been thinking of, Josh, and we'll keep it on the trades, is Alex Nadelcovic. I don't know if you've heard anything about this, but my operating theory is,

aside from getting hot, which is something that no one's going to complain about, it does kind of feel like they're showcasing him, down the stretch here and maybe trying to dangle him out to a couple other teams. Have you heard anything about the Delcovic? I haven't, although your theory is a fair one. I would put him in a category with Raquel. I don't really think they want to trade him, and I'll tell you why in a second.

But if somebody's going to blow them away with an offer, of course they'll trade him. You know, you're not going to win a cup with Alex Andalkovich as you're no more on goalie. That's not a knock on net. He's just, he's an average NHOL goalie. if you could get huge value in return for him, I'm sure they'd consider it, especially with all the young talent they have in the pipeline now. My thought on him is that, you know, he's such of a good guy. I know you always hear that about people in hockey.

He really is. I mean, he's wonderful human being. And I think he's the kind of guy you want around young goaltenders. I think he can teach them a lot of good habits, show the way a little bit. I know he works with Joel Blumquist. a lot. So I think ideally they would love to keep him. And the bigger question here might also be,

what the hell do you do with Tristan Jari? I mean, I really think they're done with him. I do. And I know he had a shut out in Wilkesbury the other night. It sounds like he's played a little better down there. I just feel like a lot of trust has been lost there and they're ready to move on. I don't know if they will ultimately have to buy him out.

If somebody will, obviously they would love, if somebody would take him in a trade. but I don't think that's very likely, let's be honest. And I also think Sergey Miroshov is the guy who has the ceiling. This guy's ceiling's a little different than everyone else's, including Blumquist, in my opinion. I really think a year or two from now he might be the guy. So there's a lot of moving parts here and a lot of things to consider. But to me, it's a lot like Raquel.

They don't really want to trade him. They kind of like the job he's doing. He doesn't make that much money. but if you want to dangle a really high pick or a big-time prospect for him, sure. They would do it in a heartbeat. Yeah, that would make some sense. I still also wonder if they would maybe consider flipping Nolachari. I mean, I don't think he's been not good of a fit these last couple of years,

but if a team wants a forward that can play in the bottom six, block a lot of shots, kill penalties, even though he has been one of the worst penalty killers just here, I could see a team needing that potentially for a playoff run, but I'm still not sure if they're going to look to move him before the deadline. But that will do it. I'm going to talk about Achari. He's the kind of guy like old school GMs and old school coaches love. Yeah.

Like he's not talented by any stretch of the imagination, but he will throw his body in front of pucks every night. I mean, if the team's looking for that kind of guy, given the money he makes, I'm sure the penguins would be more than happy to make such a trade, I would hope. Oh, I'm sure, especially if they can get, you know, somehow a mid-round pick or something just like that for him back or whatever.

But that would do it for this first segment. Coming up in the second. segment we're going to discuss a little bit more about Mike Sullivan and his job security heading into next season, what the plans could be for the summer. And we'll have Josh make a few predictions at some point later in the show for the Four Nations face all that starts this week. But before we get to that, we got to tell you all about our first sponsor, and that is Indeed. You just realize your business needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find an amazing candidate's fast? Easy. Just use Indeed. When it comes to hiring, Indeed is all you need. Stop struggling to get your job

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We're back here in this episode of the Lockdown Penguins podcast. I'm one of your host, Hunter Hodes. Join, as always, my co-host Patrick Damp. And today, special guest Josh Yowie of the Athletic. Josh, we also got to address the small elephant in the room, and that is still head coach Mike Sullivan. A lot of people very much are ready to move on from him. I've said probably for the last year and change that I'm kind of ready for a fresh start.

The organization disagrees with me. I kind of get it. But do you think there is a possibility that they part ways with him after this season, even though they are very much in a rebuild right now and not in a wind mountain now mode? It's just because hasn't won a playoff series since 2018. Feels like the team is getting especially worse defensively under him. Do you think they could use a new fresh voice in that room, at least to end Crosby's career and potentially into the future?

I have mixed feelings on it, but I understand people being dissatisfied with the last few years and thinking a new voice is the way to go. That might be the truth. The reality is it's not going to happen. The only way Mike Sullivan will not be the coach of the penguins next season, in my opinion, is if Mike Sullivan no longer wants to be the coach of the Pittsburgh Penguins. And I don't have that sense. I talked with him, it was the day before Thanksgiving, a couple days before Thanksgiving,

when they were really struggling. And he told me, not word for word, but he told me, like, I want to see this thing through and be the guy here when we get good again, basically, is what he, was saying. Not that he doesn't want to be good right now, but he made it pretty clear to me. He didn't want to go anywhere. And I know for an absolute fact, if he wanted the New Jersey job last summer, it was his. And he said no. He is so loyal to this franchise, maybe to a fault. I know some people will say that. But I actually think they've looked like a pretty well coached team recently, especially the last couple of games. I mean, I think the idea that, you know, his

voice is lost in the locker room is not true. So do they need a fresh voice? Maybe. I think they need a fresh roster more than they need a fresh coaching voice personally. So, I mean, listen, it's a polarizing thing, and I understand why people aren't thrilled with his work. But I don't think he's going anywhere. And also, I will say this, FSG, they might spend to the salary cap, but they sure don't like spending their money in other areas in the Peguons organization, I assure you.

and he's still under contract for multiple more seasons. I don't know that the idea of just dishing out millions of dollars to two different coaches for two years necessarily appeals to them. So I would, I'd be surprised if he's not around for a while longer. I know that's not what everybody necessarily wants to hear. But his loyalty is such to this franchise and Sidney Crosby's loyalty is such to him that I just don't think it happens. And also I think he and Kyle Dubus have a really good relationship.

I believe that strongly. And I don't think Kyle is all that concerned about them not winning right now. I think he's got a bigger picture in mind. So I don't think he's like, oh, we've lost five in a row. I might have to fire the coach. I think he's seeing the big picture through all of this. That's kind of where I've been on Mike Sullivan on this show is that I know that people love to blame coaches for every single thing.

You stub your toe in the morning and you yell about the coach. But I think at the end of the day, the penguins problems are many and far down the list is the head coach. He's got his, he can be stubborn. He's set in some ways, but at the same time, you look at the roster construction over the last few years and that goes well above Mike Sullivan's, Mike Sullivan's heads. So yeah, I can understand people being upset with the coach. I get it, but I think it's far down the list on the problems for this franchise.

Another thing that I also have, speaking of long term penguins and people who have been here for a long time. One thing that's always intrigued me going into this season and into the future, you've written about this a few times. You've actually kind of put it as like an Easter egg to see who's paying attention in some of your articles is Chris LaTang. I mean, we talk about the big three in how they want to be penguins, how they all fought to stay together. But you keep saying that you don't think he is necessarily totally married to retiring as a penguin. Now, it kind of feels like it would have to be all the stars aligning. But in your estimation, do you think he retires a penguin? And what scenario could it be where he doesn't? So glad you brought

this up because I have dropped it in a couple of articles. And maybe nobody's paying attention because they just kind of, okay, Crystal Tag. No, that would be a pretty big deal. You look at the big three. It's pretty simple. Sid is a penguin for the rest of his career and he will play for as long as he wants. for the Penguins. We know he's under contract for two more years after this one. If he's still playing at a high level and if he's still healthy at that point, I would almost expect him to play a couple of more years after that. Don't know that for a fact, but that's my guess. Malkin, I strongly believe Gino will play next season and then retire.

I think that'd be his 20th NHL season. He's still a pretty effective second line center, but we can see him slowing down. It's blatantly obvious to anyone who's been watching him for any stretch of his career. I think next season is the end of the road for him. LaTang has always been the interesting one to me. He still has three years left on his deal after this one. He's still perfectly effective, not the player he was a few years ago. I have never sensed from him that it's mandatory that he finished his career in Pittsburgh. I don't, I think he'd be happy to, but if a situation came along where somebody wanted him and it was the right fit, would he say no? I'm not so sure.

And I think there's only certain teams he would go to. You always hear about Montreal with him because, well, he's French Canadian and he's from Montreal. Maybe. You know, Chris bought a house in Los Angeles last year. Like, he spends a lot of his time in the summer in L.A. His wife and kid are out in L.A. a lot. Kind of like Gino and his wife are in Miami a lot. So, you know, if the Ducks or Kings came calling, would Chris play there?

Like, I don't know. I don't want to speak for him. But I bet he might. It wouldn't shock me. So, you know, we'll see. I think he'll still be with the Penguins four years from now at the end of his contract. My guess is no. I just, I think something will probably come up at some point, and I could be wrong.

For his sake, I hope it'd be pretty cool if he'd like for one team for like 23 seasons or whatever. You don't ever see that. So if he stays, great. Maybe he will, maybe he won't. But I've never sensed that it's like Sid or Gino where he has to finish his career in Pittsburgh. Those two are so serious about it. And Mario was always really serious about those two finishing their careers. in Pittsburgh also. I never sensed it with, you know, quite the same impact with Latang.

So I, I, the long, the short answer to that is I don't know, but it wouldn't shock me if you hear his name come up in the next year. I hear you. I still think he's going to finish his career here. I think they're all going to go out together. Obviously, I think Gino's going to retire at the end of next season as well. But after that, I think sit in Latang, whenever they decide to retire, you know, one goes first, one goes after, I still think there are. all going to go out together as Penguins for life. But hey, I could be wrong about let's hang on that one too. Now, Josh, getting to something else. Obviously, the Penguins, 23 and 25 and 9 right now, 55 points towards the bottom of the Eastern Conference.

What are your expectations for this team for the rest of the season? Or what do you want to see from some select players on this team for the rest of the year? And if also, do you want anyone from Wilkesbury to come up and play some meaningful games on the stretcher, even though Wilkesbury is also one of the top teams in the AHL this year. Well, my expectations, I don't think they're going to collapse and end up, you know, being a bottom five team. I know some people want that. I don't think that will happen, and especially given how they played the last few games,

that tells you there's still a heartbeat there. They're still playing really hard. And the schedule is not terribly difficult, at least in the first couple of weeks back. So I think they will finish in the middle of this awful Eastern, whatever you want to call it. I don't think they'll be a playoff team. I also don't think they're going to make a run like they did late last season where they almost made the playoffs.

I would expect them to finish eight to ten points out of a playoff spot, maybe get a top 10 pick, something like that. But, you know, there's margin for error there, for sure, because they are going to be, unless somebody gets hurt in four nations, they should be pretty healthy. I think Gino and Rust will both be good to go when the season resumes in a couple of weeks. But they're going to sell off a couple of more people.

And as for who I'm looking for, like anyone else, you want to see some young guys, you know, get a chance and show something. Oh, and Pickering, I thought was perfectly solid. I was a little surprised when they sent him down. But I think he'll be back sooner rather than later. And I do look forward to kind of monitoring him. I don't think he's ever going to be a star.

But if he can be a really good Marcus Pedersen type of player, you would take that. And I think he can. So now there's some young guys that I'm excited to see. But really, I think the real fun begins at training camp next season when a lot of these young guys, you know, whether it be Harrison Brunuch or Coyvinen or obviously Miroshov, like some of these prospects might really be prepared to make a move. I think as a penguin fan, that's when things get really excited.

Yeah, for sure. And I think on my end, the way I look at this is, the way I've said it on the show is I've almost like obviously I ate my words with the Marcus Patterson trade because knocked that one out of the park. But I kind of said with where this organization is and what they're trying to do, don't expect all of these trades to be big time home runs where, oh, first round pick, blue chip prospect. Because again, I know in Pittsburgh saying this, it's verboten. But Kyle Dubus very clearly went to the Bill Belichick School of Asset Management, where instead of shooting for a big time first round pick, he's going to get two second round picks, two or three third round picks. And that way you have a whole bunch of prospects in picks. So eventually one of them will hit rather than putting all of your eggs into one basket of one player.

So I think what we'll see is a lot of these guys get moved for second round pick, third round pick. And for me, I look at it and think, like you said, Josh, it's going to be training camp where none of us were talking about Harrison Brunick going into training camp last year. And all of a sudden, here's this guy. We're all looking forward to Owen Pickering. He seemed to be a few steps ahead. So to me, that's kind of where I see this going is you're going to see a bunch of names come in

that in June you weren't talking about, but come September, you're going to think, how far away is this guy? It's not the Penguins way to build a team. If you look at the two great eras of Penguins hockey, get that first overall pick when a phenom comes along. That's how they've always built. This is different.

This is, well, we're going to try to have all these draft picks and have a team of like seven or eight really good players and maybe no superstar unless they get lucky in the draft lottery in the next couple of years, which always could have. happen. But yeah, I just appreciate the fact that Dubus clearly has a plan now, and he's sticking to it. And Kyle has some questions to answer in terms of his ability to evaluate NHL talent and goaltenders especially. And he does, and he's going to have to do that.

But he can draft. He can identify young players. I mean, you talked about Brunich and Emil, help me up. Is it P. Niemmi? P. Niami, I can never say his name. Pianniami. Yeah, I've seen him play in Kingston a couple of times. My kids live there, so I'm up there a lot. He's a stud. I'm telling you, he's going to be a really good NHL defenseman. They love him.

And this kid, Finn Harding was their seventh round picking Brampton last year. I've seen him play a couple times. He is so good. Anytime you bring up their prospects, you bring up Brunick, the big names, Kyle Dubas always says, don't forget about Finn Harding. They know they got to steal with him in the seventh round. So all of a sudden, the blue line already has some real pieces that in a couple of years, I think could be very good.

So he knows how to identify young talent. That's what he's focusing on. That's exactly what he should be focusing on right now. And the Waver Wire edition they just made as well, Josh. I think he's going to get quite a few minutes, especially once Matt Grizzling probably gets moved. We discussed that a bit on the Monday show. There's going to be playing time, especially on that left side,

because once that trade happens, you're looking at a left side of, you'll call you Chanok, P.O. Joseph, Ryan Graves. Definitely not the greatest left side. Of course, not great. But for a team that is looking to take the. next step in a couple of years, you know, on a rebuilding team, like that, this is the price you have to pay sometimes. Guys like that, even like getting P.O. for nothing. Like, listen, P.O. is nothing special, but he's

okay. He plays with Crystal Teng pretty well. He's going to get physically bullied some games, but he's not the worst guy to have around. So, no, I just, that pool of defensemen they have right now in their system is so much better than it was a year ago. Oh, my God, it's night and day. So you can see some things starting to come together with that. defensemen and the goalies they have in their system. It's time to go find a couple of impactful young forwards, which is never easy. But I think that's probably the next step. Speaking of that, we're going to discuss that with Josh coming up to end the show,

as well as a couple of his predictions for the Four Nations face off. But before we get to that, we got to tell you all about our final sponsor, and that is Fandall. When the game tips off, the NBA action is just getting started and there's no better place to get in on it than Fandle, America's number one sportsbook with Fandle. You can place live bets throughout the game. so even if you miss the opening tip off or want to bet on a fourth quarter comeback, you can stay in on the action.

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Join by my co-host, Patrick Damp, and of course, today's special guest is Josh Yewee of the Athletic. So, Josh, you hinted at it during the end of the second segment. and if it were up to me, I would flip that first round peg if they just got to try and go get a younger talent, whether if someone that's about to be an RFA, someone that just was an RFA,

that needs a change of scenery. That's the type of player that I would be looking to go get an in fact, packed full player that can help, not just right now, but well into the future. Do you get the sense that Kyle Dubus is going to go down that road prior to the draft or even after free agency? I think it's something he will expect. floor. You know, I've heard

lately a lot about Kyle. There's a lot of reports that Peg was one of young player more than prospects or draft picks. Well, of course they do. That's because you're one step closer to the NHL. Jim Rutherford used to tell me all the time, like, I don't give a shit about trading draft picks. You don't know if they're going to be any good or not. And Jim's lived up to that. He's certainly proven that to be true. But like, he said, prospects are a little different. When you have a kid for a year

and you've seen him start to develop and you know what you have in him, sometimes those guys are harder to trade. Like when he referenced Jake Gensel once, he said, we knew what Jake was like a year before we was in the NHL. We weren't going to trade him because we knew. He said, now draft picks are a little different. So, yeah, if Kyle could flip that for an NHL ready player, sure. He might consider it. But I don't think he feels pushed to do so.

If that ends up being the 18th pick in this draft, great. Even if it's not a great draft, it's still the 18th overall pick, you can get a really good player there. So it's something I think he would consider. he's in a nice position right now. He can be aggressive if he wants, but I think he's flexible. But he has so many draft picks now. You're right, Hunter.

I mean, like, if he wants to send a couple of picks for a player, nobody would bat an eye because they have so many draft picks all of a sudden. That gives you the flexibility to do stuff like that. For sure. And one last thing before we talk about the Olympic advertisement that starts this week. One thing I kind of want to pick your brain on a little bit is, this off season because we kind of touched on it with the Raquel thing where I think his value goes up in the summer just because of the salary cap and the free agent class.

Do you in Hunter and you guys just kind of talked about this right here, how aggressive do you see him being over the summer? Because he is really, whether it was on purpose or he just set it up this way and got lucky, they have a chance to really completely overhaul this NHL roster. the summer because you know a bunch of teams are going to back the Brinks truck up on July 1 with a skyrocketing salary cap, a bunch of good free agents. And we know NHLGMs simply cannot help themselves. But how aggressive do you see the penguins being? Because I don't think, I know he doesn't think that, oh, we're three, four good savvy moves away from being a

contender again. But he definitely could inch this a little bit more forward if he makes a couple aggressive moves. I think he'll be aggressive in terms of how many moves he makes in the summer. I don't know that he'll be aggressive in a, you know, signing somebody to a six-year, a $40 million contract kind of way. My sense has always been that he is waiting until the summer of 26 to get really aggressive and free agency. That's when Gino is gone, probably. And I think they have, if you look at it, now, granted, things are going to change between now and then, but as of right now, they've got like 60 million in cap space that summer, something like ridiculous number.

That might be the summer when he really starts bringing out the checkbook, if I may make an old person reference. But he might get aggressive. You know people around the league will. You're right. When the cab's going up, oh, that's a green light. It's a good time to be a free agent. Marcus Pedersen's already got five and a half a million a year for six years.

Come on. I like Marcus, but if Marcus is getting that kind of. of money. That tells you that they're about to be a lot of overpaid players, quite frankly, this summer. And it's going to be July 1st is going to be wild. I'm sure you guys will do multiple podcasts on July 1st. I don't blame you. So he might be, but it has to be for a young player. He's not going to give an older guy a big deal. It wouldn't shock me if you see big names, older guys maybe get one-year deals, just to maybe try to be a little competitive and then you got more expiring contracts, and then you really get aggressive in 26.

So he will be active. He will be very active. I don't know how aggressive he will be in terms of really big names. I'd be surprised if he did that until the following season. That's when things get really interesting, though, when you need a second line center, when you need all these other items. In other words, what I'm saying is next season might not be great again.

I know nobody wants to hear that. But the year after that, like the 26-27 season, I really think he wants to be good that season. And they're going to have the money to certainly blend in some older guys with a bunch of young players who should be ready to be in the NHL at that point. Yeah, they'll have over 20 plus million in cap space this year again. And the next year it jumps even higher. Yeah. That was real quickly, Josh, that was going to be my final question. Like, do you expect more one-year deal moves like we saw this past off season or is there going to be a little bit more?

because Blake LaSalle was the only player they signed to a deal longer than one year. So I'll be curious to know if that's the type of plan that he's going for again this offseason kind of one year reclamation type projects that you can flip with a deadline or is it going to be a little bit more aggressive than that? Could be. Blake LaZott, by the way, there's another guy at the deadline. Yeah. Maybe somebody would be interested in him.

Wouldn't shock me. He's been pretty good when he's healthy. I could see him being a little more aggressive than he was last year if there's certain players that can be around for a few years. Wouldn't shock me. And I think part of that depends on what happens at the deadline. You know, if he shed some more, if they do trade Raquel, for instance, then yes, I think they, with all that money freed up, they probably would be more aggressive this summer to do

something. Basically, maybe you go sign another Rickel and you have a first round pick and a prospect to go along with it now from the trade that you theoretically would have made, something like that. So it all goes hand in hand. He might be a little bit more aggressive. but to me it's building toward the summer of 2026 when I really think he wants this team to be good again. If the right deal is there, he'll do it.

I think you will see some one-year deals probably. He's not going to let this just become a floundering, you know, pathetic team that's the worst in the league. That's not what he wants. And he told me last year, he said, as long as since on my roster, I'm not getting a top five draft pick. I already know that. So if you take that knowledge with you, then, okay, they're still going to try to be competitive. they just don't want to get locked down to, you know, huge contracts. When you've already got Graves and Jari to deal with and Carlson, for that matter,

they still have to be a little bit careful for another year, I would think. That makes sense. And finally, Josh, before we let you go, give us some small predictions for the Four Nations face off this week. Who do you got winning? What's the most intriguing roster to you? I know there's been some injuries for a lot of these teams. It was awesome seeing Ricardo Raquel on the top line for Sweden after being originally left off. But I think him and Willie Nealander are going to be a lot of fun.

together on that top line. Give us some predictions. Anybody could win. The TV networks are really hoping against a Finland, Sweden final, obviously. My prediction is that Team USA will win. I think they have the best goaltender and I think they have the best roster. And I also think USA and Canada are so even. Like, they're so even. And let's say they meet in the final, which is certainly possible, if not likely. Like, to me, what are the odds that, you know, they don't split. Like, to me, Canada, I'd probably pick Canada to win Saturday night

in Montreal against the Americans, but I don't know that they're going to beat the Americans two in a row, just like I don't think, you know, the Americans would do the same to them. So just because it's back in Boston for the championship game, I'd probably give the Americans a slight edge. I hope we get USA Canada in the final. I think it's what we all want, with all due respect

to our friends in Sweden and Finland. That's why this tournament exists, basically, it's for that. right. It's just a warm up for the Olympics, basically, but it's still international hockey. And just to see Crosby play in meaningful games, I think if you're a Crosby fan, that's a really cool thing. And I never get over his record in international play. Team Canada, when he wears that sweater all time, is 45 and 5. And he's won 25 games in a row wearing that sweater. So I can't wait to see how he looks. I'll give the Americans the edge in this one. I still will favor

Canada in the Olympics, because I don't think Cid will let them lose in Olympics. It's just a bigger deal. And one other thing, guys, I can't wait to see how Eric Carlson looks in this tournament. I'm actually curious to see how much they play him, what roles they put him in, how he looks. Maybe that will tell us a lot about Eric Carlson and his future. And by the way, he can maybe help his value a little bit if he plays well in this tournament. Just throwing that out there. Yeah, and I'm with you on the prediction. I think it comes down to what I call all the time, the most important position in hockey and the Americans have the, advantage in net because they've got Connor Hellebuck and the fact that Logan Thompson is sitting

at home in D.C. or on the beach wherever he is right now. Yeah. And Team Canada left him off the roster. That to me feels a lot like Phil Kessel tweeting in 2016 feels like there's something I should be doing tonight. Can't quite put my finger on it. Really quick story about that tweet from Phil. The second he tweeted that out, I got the notification on my phone.

I swear to God, I was standing in Toronto right beside Steve Sinclair. Simmons at the tournament. And I tapped him on the arm. I said, hey, Steve, read this. And he couldn't stop laughing for 10 minutes. It was like the greatest thing I've ever seen. But yeah, I think at the end of the day, the U.S. has the slight edge. But given we got some pretty heavy talent going into the four nations face off,

as much as it is, cash grab advertisement for the Olympics, still going to be going to be on hockey. That's right. I'm still watching it. We haven't seen international best on best hockey with at least these four countries in so long. I'm going to be tuning in. And this is the best USA team of my lifetime people. Like, truly.

Like the amount of talent this team has, Josh, when you compare it to, especially 2016, 2014, heck even 2010, the talent right now. Crazy. Blows those teams away. And I'm excited to see. It just thinks that Quinn Hughes is not there.

Like, that's what I'm really going to be missing. It does. Canada, Canada still has McKinnon, Crosby, McDavid, and McCarre, though. Yep. And those four are going to have to carry the load, though. And that said, I wouldn't want to deal with that power play. So,

No. They could just outscore everybody in a short tournament like this. And it wouldn't shock me at all. But I think the Americans top the bottom have the better roster. Yeah, I can see a case for that. I still think it's going to be tough going up against McKinnon and Crosby on the same line. I think McDavid is also on a line with Marner and Reinhardt, if I recall correctly. So that's going to be a lot of fun as well. I'm just, I'm excited to watch these games. I know some people aren't. I still am. I can't. I'll do it for today's episode of the Locked on Penguins podcast. Thank you all so much for taking the time to listen to.

slash watch this episode. Josh, do you have anything to plug before we go here? You know, come to theathletic.com. Read my articles. That would be appreciated. If you have time for another podcast, I know this is the competing podcast wars, but I do one with Joe Bartnick every week. It usually comes out Monday night, two for talking, we call it. So if you want to check that out as well. But I'll do respect to Hunter and Patrick fans, I understand. They're number one. I respect that. But if you have time, you want to listen to both, that's awesome, too. So always appreciate it.

Always enjoy coming on the show, guys. It's been too long. Yeah. Thank you for coming on. Josh. We appreciate it, man. And you guys do great work on your show as well. We're always happy to have you on.

But again, that would do it for today's episode. We'll have more topics on the Penguins. And Pat and I will make our picks for the Four Nations face off a bit more during our Wednesday episode as well, as well as do our Warrior Helmet Wednesday pick for the last week, too. So for Patrick Dam and Josh Yewy, I'm Hunter Hodes. Thank you all so much for tuning in. We'll talk with you all on. Wednesday.