Locked On Penguins - Daily Podcast On The Pittsburgh Penguins - Penguins President Kyle Dubas opens up on roster construction in new book

Episode Date: July 12, 2024

A new book from Craig Custance is set to be released later this year and one of the people he spoke with is now Penguins President of Hockey Operations, Kyle Dubas. Patrick and Hunter discuss that excerpt, his time in Toronto, and what he has to change to be successful in Pittsburgh. After that, they talk about how recent reporting found that the Penguins have yet to hold any kind of contract extension talks with defenseman Marcus Pettersson. So, should they extend him, trade him, or lose him? Finally, the Baby Penguins continue filling out their roster showing that they will continue building toward becoming a consistently competitive AHL team. Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!eBay MotorsFor parts that fit, head to eBay Motors and look for the green check. Stay in the game with eBay Guaranteed Fit at eBayMotors.com. Let’s ride. eBay Guaranteed Fit only available to US customers. Eligible items only. Exclusions apply.GametimeDownload the Gametime app, create an account, and use code LOCKEDONNHL for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply.FanDuelFanDuel, America’s Number One Sportsbook. As playoffs wind down, the sports stop sporting like we want them to. But this summer, FanDuel is hooking up ALL CUSTOMERS with a boost or a bonus, DAILY! That’s right, there’s something for everyone, every day, all summer long! Visit FANDUEL.COMand add a big win to your summer bucket list!FANDUEL DISCLAIMER: 21+ in select states. First online real money wager only. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG (CO, IA, MD, MI, NJ, PA, IL, VA, WV), 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (WY, KS) or visit ksgamblinghelp.c Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

We're getting some new insights into the mind of Kyle Duvus in a brand new book that's set to come out later this year. Hunter and I are going to talk about that and more on this edition of the Locked-on Penguins podcast. You're Locked-on Penguin, your daily podcast on the Pittsburgh Penguins, part of the Locked-on Podcast Network, your team every day. Welcome back to another edition of the Locked-on Penguins podcast. I'm one of your host, Patrick Damp. You can follow me on Twitter at Synonym 4 Wet, joined as always by the one and only Hunter Hodes. You can follow him on Twitter at Hunter Hodes. You can give our show's account a follow at LO underscore Penguins.

And of course, we thank you for making this your first listener watch of the day, because we're your team every day. Also, don't forget that we are free and available wherever you get your podcast as well as YouTube. And before we get started today, today's episode is brought to you by, GameTime. Download the GameTime app, create an account, and use promo code locked on NHL for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. So there's a pretty interesting book Hunter that's set to come out later this year. It's due out on October 15th by one of the best NHL reporters out there in Craig Custins. It's called The Franchise, the Business of Building Winning Teams. And I got to say,

whether it's Craig Custin's publisher or Amazon or whoever, whoever wrote the description for this book, I want it to come out right now. Let me just read this to our listeners real quick before we dive in. Why do some franchises consistently win while others may never see their players named etched on the cup? Why do some teams draft poorly and other teams draft all stars? Why do some teams just never seem to know how to win? In this book, Draft Day meets Berkslaw in this incisive entertaining behind the scenes look at hockey's highest ranks.

Yeah, that elevator pitch alone, I want that book right now. I'd finish it in a day. But essentially, one of the big features of this book is Custin's gets a ton of interviews with a lot of NHL executives, both current and former. and among them is Kyle Dubus. And Kyle Dubus talks more about his time in Toronto than he does what's gone on so far with the Penguins because as we know, that's still a very incomplete story. A whole lot of work left to do for him. It's only been about a year since he was named president of the Penguins.

But in this book, he talked to Custin's about his time with the Leafs. And I think we can use a little bit of that to inform either what has he learned since he was the general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs and how is he applying it now as the Penguins president. I'll give you this one quote, Hunter, and then we can dive in a little bit. He said, and this was an excerpt from the book given to the Toronto Sun, he said, the biggest mistake I think I made in my whole time there was not taking care of the three incumbent contracts. that includes William Nealander, Mitch Marner, Austin Matthews, and those could have been done on July 1st extension. So, Hunter, we know that big difference here, pretty much all the big names are locked up. They're not going anywhere. But what do you think he has learned from his time in Toronto dealing with those big three

to now having to deal with another big three in Crosby, Malkin, and Lattang? Well, Malkin and Lattang, they're both already locked up. and for those out there, if my Wi-Fi's a little spotty today, I apologize. I'm traveling a little bit this weekend, but still, duty calls for this episode and then the Monday episode as well. But he really doesn't have to deal too much with the Malcom and Latang contract just because they were signed by Ron Hextall. He does have to deal with the Sydney Crosby extension.

And by every indication out there, every report that's come out, that's close to being finalized. And I'm sure they're just probably agreeing to terms on, you know, the AAV, maybe a signing bonus. all that good stuff overall for Crosby's potential final contract in the NHL overall. And it sounds like this was being talked about before July 1. They wanted to get a bit of a head start on it. And yes, I know he hasn't officially signed it yet, but it looks like at least to me he has learned a little bit just because some of those negotiations with some of the core players in Toronto did get messy.

You know, the New Ender negotiation, that was a bit messy at times. The Marner negotiation was a bit weird. at times, too you. I haven't really seen that with Sidney Crosby, but I also don't think Sidney Crosby is going to allow that negotiation to get messy. Do you really think Crosby, as someone who we very much know because he's been here for so long, do you really think he wants this hanging over his head during the season? Do you really think he wants to be asked about this every single day at practice or after games? Oh, when are you going to sign this extension? When are you going to sign this contract? Are you thinking about getting traded? No. He would,

wants this locked up as soon as possible. And you're seeing Dubus really deal with that, I think, this offseason at least so far. So I think that's going to get done sooner rather than later. August 7th that's coming up. That's Sydney Crosby's birthday. Would not be surprised that that's when it gets announced. But I do think you're seeing at least that lesson per se learned a little bit compared to his time with Toronto where a couple of negotiations got a little bit messy. I don't think that's going to happen here with Crosby. Again, I don't think he's going to allow it to happen and everything is going good so far. But again, it looks like he's at least

to learn a bit from it if you ask me. Yeah, I would agree. And I say there is some parallel as well to what he discussed about his time in Toronto to what's happening here in Pittsburgh because you think about his big acquisition in Toronto was going out and signing John Tavares in free agency. And that has been, regardless of their team success,

that has been a slam dunk for them. He's lived up to every single penny of that deal, especially as the Leafs captain. But then you parallel it to Pittsburgh. He goes out and gets Eric Carlson to come in and add to the roster. The one thing I'll say that I think gets lost in the discussion of Kyle Dubus in Toronto. COVID completely screwed his plan because the salary cap at that point was going to be tied to a rocket. and it was going to get up to 90 or more million by the time we got to, even now, it would probably be approaching 100 if the pandemic never happened.

And you look at the deals that he signed all of those players to Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares, they were going to look like absolute steals because of a rising cap. But then pandemic happens, cap stays flat. they don't have the cap space. They need to build out a better roster, which is what I'll say I think he has learned from now being in Pittsburgh, because the thing that I think really handicapped him in Toronto up until the point

he was fired just a few days later, he did not want to part with any of those guys. And you could tell after they got knocked out two years ago, he was willing to part with one of them at some point or another to open up the cap space they needed. And then a few days later, Brendan Shanahan gets rid of them. You look at the moves that he's made in Pittsburgh, specifically the Jake Gensel trade. I don't think in his time in Toronto, if you were to kind of parallel it, he would have been willing to move Jake Gensel because he would have been willing to say, these are my guys. I'm hanging on to him.

I believe in them. but then he comes to Pittsburgh and makes a very difficult decision to move not only a fan favorite, but one of the most productive wingers of the last few years. Right. And I think it was a different situation, I think, for him overall, just because he kind of just changed course pretty quick. You know, he goes out last summer, spends a bunch of money on July 1, requires Eric Carlson a little bit later. It looks like he's all in it to win it.

And then the season happens, they're not in a good spot by the trade deadline. and then he kind of reverse his course a little bit and then trades Gensel. I think if he was in a different situation, for example, in Toronto, I do think he would keep him past the deadline and just look to extend him just because of how, you know, A, great Gensel's been and B, just because the Maple Leafs are very much in wind now mode trying to be a Stanley Cup contender trying to advance past the second round more than once during the core era here in Toronto. So I definitely agree with you on that in overall.

And I should say the Nylander contract, it wasn't obviously this past contract that Newlander signed. It was the one prior to that that I feel like at times got a little bit messy as well. Yeah, it did. There was, you want to clarify that. Not this one, the previous one. Yeah, there were holdouts. It got real messy. And I've said it on the show about Kyle Dubus, as much as I admire him, as much as I liked his work in Toronto.

And I'm really coming around to what he's doing here in Pittsburgh. His strength is trading. His strength is moving out deals and finding that market and efficiency on the trade market rather than on the free agency market. He, you obviously I said, you know, they were hoping for that rising salary cap pandemic happens. You can't plan for that. Nobody can. But you do look at those deals and you think, oh, man, like, even with that plan of a rising salary cap, that's a lot of money. and it really feels like they didn't get anything they wanted in the player got all they wanted.

Now, I'm pro-pay the players, but that's just my personal belief, not my professional, let's build a winning team belief, two different schools of thought there. So that said, like, if he's willing to change course, change plans, which it appears he's willing to do now that he's here with the penguins, I'm excited and interested to see what he'll do moving forward because we've already seen it. He is willing to get more draft picks in part with some talent. And now you compare his July 1 last year to his July 1 this year. He's not handing out a bunch of money. It's not handing out a bunch of term. So he is seemingly willing to learn from his mistakes now than he may not have been in Toronto. Well, he's not doing that. I agree with you.

He's still making some decisions that I still think are a little bit questionable. We do have to I think be very fair about that. You know, the macro is a contract, and I don't think he's that good. We'll have to see if he bounces back. Bavillier, he comes in cheap. We'll have to see if he bounces back. A couple of these are reclamation projects overall. And, you know, we, I kind of gave Dubus the same grade on July 1 that I gave him last year, just for kind of different reasons, I would say overall. You know, last year, bought in a bunch of defensive specialists, also gave out too much term. This year, bringing in a couple of reclamation projects that I'm still not full. sure are going to work out. But I'm still at least intrigued, fascinated to see how this goes, just because, again, there's a real shot that he could be able to potentially trade one

or two of the guys that he signed on July 1 for some sort of draft pick by the trade deadline at this team is in a similar position this upcoming season that it was this past season. Yeah, I don't want to, I don't want to say that I think he's knocking it out of the park this summer. He's not. But, you know, I'm happy to see that he's, at least signing guys to deals that will be easy to move should this team find themselves in the same position late in the season that they were this past year. And that can really help them with their stated long-term goal of rebuilding the prospect pipeline and having plenty of draft picks at their disposal.

So that will leave that there. And when we come back, we actually going to keep the discussion going on contracts and extensions because that's Sydney Crosby extension, still not here yet. and there's another player who's a pending UFA that doesn't seem like there's been a lot of movement yet this summer, but we will talk about that right after this when we tell you about our first sponsor, and that is game time. It's summer in Pittsburgh, and if you're looking to head to PNC Park to see the National League All-Star starting pitcher Paul Skeens, game time is your place to go to get those pirate tickets.

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Terms apply. Again, create an account and redeem code L-O-C-E-D-O-N-N-H-L, for $20 off. Download game time today. Last minute tickets, lowest price guaranteed. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to the Friday edition of the Locked-on Penguins podcast. I'm Patrick Damp, joined by Hunter Hodes, who is on the road. It's another vacation cast for the locked on penguins crew. And thank you, as always, for tuning in joining us and making us part of your daily routine. We truly appreciate that. But we got to get back in. into the hockey talk, the contract talks here.

And, well, we already know that the Sydney Crosby extension, which we heard earlier this week was imminent, still has not been signed, but we pretty much assume that's going to be three years, 10 million A.AV, something in that ballpark. But again, still has not been announced. So we will continue to wait for that. However, we have to talk about a little nugget brought out today by our friend Taylor Haas of D.K. Pittsburgh sports. Said it before. Say it again. I'll continue to say it.

If you're not following her work, you're doing it wrong. She is doing a tremendous job over there with everything from interviews with Kyle Dubis to following up on the prospects. You name it. She's got it. But according to her report today on her Friday insider, there have not been any talks between the Pittsburgh Penguins and defenseman Marcus Pedersen. Well, I'm not totally surprised by. that yet because Taylor says it as well. Chances are the Sydney Crosby extension is taking up most of the oxygen in the front office right now. That's clearly a priority, something they want to get done. But I am a little surprised that there haven't even been preliminary talks just because

Pedersen has made it clear. He wants to remain here. He wants to continue to be a penguin. All reporting shows that he's become a huge cog and leader on this team. So, Hunter, your thoughts on there not being any extension talks with Marcus Pedersen yet. I'm not surprised. I mean, there's a bigger priority, obviously, here with Cindy Crosby until that is finalized and announced. They're really not going to do too much, I don't think, with Marcus Peterson. Yeah, I guess I could maybe say I'm a little surprised that there haven't been at least some small discussions about it. But overall, when I really dig deep about it. I'm not that surprise.

Again, there's a bigger fish to deal with right now in Cindy Grosby. And also, we still don't even know if they are going to sign Pedersen to this extent. And just because, you know, we've talked about this ad nauseum on the show throughout the offseason. We'll have to see if they're in a position to sign him by the time the trade deadline comes around. Just because when you look at this roster heading into the trade deadline, he is, I think, the top player that could bring back. the best package when you look at, you know, they're pending UFAs, players that could get dealt. Overall, it's Pederson, I think,

that I think could bring back the best package, considering he's a top four defenseman, quite in his own zone, can bring you a little bit of offense. Teams will line up to pay for a top four defenseman at the trade done. I like the paying once again, we'll get it back a pretty big package, or at least a decent package overall for a rental. But again, not really too surprised.

If they do decide to extend them, they will deal with that after the big contract for 87 gets announced. Yeah, that's kind of where I am as well. I mean, I'm a little surprised that at the very least, there haven't been preliminary discussions, if nothing else just from a PR standpoint, because I know how much fans appreciate Marcus Pedersen's game. He's really grown into his own since he was acquired a good few years ago.

I mean, I remember seeing that trade and thinking, man, this is a heist because this is the kind of defenseman who at the time did not jump off the page at you. You weren't doing any sort of celebratory dances or anything for Marcus Pedersen, but you looked at his game and thought, okay, this is a guy who is going to grow into becoming what he is now. He was very, very solid in his own zone, good puck mover. Little Green just needed that experience and he sure got it. it here in Pittsburgh and he's become one of their better defensemen. So I think it would have been at least a good PR move to say, okay, yeah, we've,

we've begun the talks, but there's really no movement. We'll see what happens and all that. And then I also agree with you because it's a discussion like you said, we've had on the show multiple times. If this team's in a position, like we think they will be come February, January, that part of the calendar, where they're maybe not in a playoff spot, not guaranteed to get into the postseason and they really want to, I don't want to say supercharge because, you know, we're talking about Marcus Pedersen here, not a franchise player, but a top

four defensemen, they really could get back, you know, a rot. It could be very similar in my estimation, not one to one comparison, but it could be similar to the Jake Gensel deal, where you get a roster player back, you get a prospect or two, and you get a draft pick. And you can tell that's what this team wants to do. So I really think in a funny way, they don't lose out no matter what happens here. Either they re-sign them and they've got them for the foreseeable future, especially as I've talked about. They have got a bevy a cap space coming up in the next couple of years.

And you get him locked up. You get Sid locked up. And then you have a bunch of cap space. And okay, we got all our main players locked up. Let's go for it. Or you move them. you find that next piece and you still have a ton of cap space and then you get a bunch of assets in return. So I think either way, they're in a good spot with Marcus Pedersen.

It just makes me a bit nervous that if they do trade in, which again, very real possibility if they're in a similar situation this year compared to last year, I would not be surprised if they moved Pedersen and actually I would kind of be in favor of it, to be honest, overall. but it just makes me nervous to the point, like, who is replacing him in the line? Just because I don't think when I look at this defensive group right now, no one can do what he does in the defensive zone, especially on the left side.

I mean, Ryan Graves ain't going to do that. Matt Grislyck ain't going to do that either. Ryan, Jay, John Ludwig. I mean, the left side, I feel like it's already a weakness for the Penguins right now. It gets even weaker if you do trade Pedersen. But again, that's just the part, the one main part that makes me nervous, even though, again, I do very much understand that this is a business

and you have to make a decision that is overall best for the team and that could be potentially dealing Pedersen at the deadline. Yeah, I agree with you there. I will say, though, just to push back a tad bit on that, you know, if they're in the position we think they're going to be in come February, I don't really care who's on the left side at that point. At that point, I'm just riding the season out. And I'm going to go, okay, we're going to kick this can again next year.

And let's see if there's some young guys in Wokes Bear or if Ryan Shea or Matt Grizzlick or even Ryan Graves can suddenly step up and become what we need them to be. But overall, yeah, I think you are right there about it being a problem that right now, as we stand on July 12th, it's a big weakness for the penguins. So either way, like, I'll leave it at this. I do think that either outcome could be positive for the penguins, whether it's an extension, whether it's trading him. So we will see on that. We'll also see what happens with Sidney Crosby. I'm on the same page as you. I don't see this becoming an issue.

It's going to get done before they show up to Cranberry for training camp in September. But that will do it for this second segment. When we come back, couple of depth, well, one depth signing. And we'll talk a little bit about the Wilkesbury Scranton penguins. And we will do that right after this. Welcome back to the Friday edition of the Locked-on Penguins podcast. I'm Patrick Damp, joining you from my usual spot here in my office. And Hunter Hodes joins me as usual.

But it's another vacation cast for our boy because he's dedicated to the grind. He's dedicated to the show. Just a small one. Just a small trip home overall. We'll do the last big vacation in mid-September. Then it'll be full steam ahead for this upcoming season. The man's dedicated to the grind. You got to love it.

He brings you locked on penguins content, no matter where he is across the country. And you guys are also dedicated to the grind. And we appreciate you tuning into locked on penguins every single day because your penguins sickos like us. And we couldn't thank you enough if we even tried. So let's keep it moving here. The Wilkesbury Scranton penguins made another.

signing today for the 24-25 season. They have signed defenseman Matt's Lindgren for this upcoming year. He was drafted by the Buffalo Sabres in the 2022 NHL draft in the fourth round, 106th overall. But the 19-year-old did not sign with the Sabres, making him a free agent. And he will embark on what Wilkes-Berry is calling his first pro season. So Hunter, what do we know about this guy? Yeah, so he's been in the WHL the last four seasons, two of those he was with the Camlood's Blazers. And during one of those seasons in 2021, 2021, 22 had five goals, 44 points in 68 games.

And then the last couple of seasons, he was with the Red Deer Rebels in 2022, 2022, 23 played in 63 games, 11 goals, 34 points during that time, also had two goals, nine points in 12 playoff games. And then this past season, he wore an A on his sweater in 63 games, seven goals, 41 points in 63 games. Brings a decent amount of offense in the playoffs, had one goal, five points in nine games.

He'll make his HL debut this upcoming season for the Wilkesbury Scrant Penguins. And this is at least a nice depth signing for the organization. I don't foresee him making his Pittsburgh Penguins debut this season unless a massive swath of injuries

happen for the Penguins because they have so many defensemen overall signed at the NHL level. I mean, this team is not even seven defensemen. deep. Had there are eight, nine, even 10 defense been deep. I think at this point, you're going to be seeing a couple players playing Wilkesbray that I think could very well potentially be on the Penguins opening night roster. But this is some decent depth. And, you know, why not? Why not take

a flyer on someone like this? Yeah, it can't hurt. It's a good, like you said, good depth signing. I think there's a lot of potential there. Obviously, junior numbers don't always translate to professional numbers. But you look at the fact that he's 19 years old. He's got plenty of junior experience under his belt. And we know that defensemen take a little while to season, to develop. There's a lot of guys that they have a great pedigree coming out of juniors as defensemen at 18, 19 years old. And then you don't hear about them until they're 23, 24, even 25 years old because

it's a difficult position to learn at the pro level. It's difficult to adapt to that speed because you're dealing with such higher talent. I always talk about how each successive level you go up, you go from being the big fish in the pond to being in a pond with a bunch of other big fish. So you really have to adapt to being at that level. And you look at this guy, like I said, 19 years old, a lot of good numbers in junior. And we look at the way Wilkes Bear has been making signings, how the penguins have been working on getting players for Wilkes Bear.

there's, I'm not going to sit here and pretend that all of a sudden the penguins have some great can't miss pipeline because they simply do not. But they are making it so if you play in Wheeling or Wilkes Bear, you are going to play meaningful hockey. You're going to play on a competitive team. And I said it yesterday. I'll say it again. It's the Mike Tomlinism. Iron sharpens iron. You get these better players who can play at this level.

It's going to help with development for the guys you want to develop. Right. And the front office is very serious about having Wilkesbury be a good team this upcoming season. They've made that very apparent ever since this new regime came in saying, like, yeah, we want Wilkesbury to be one of the top teams in the AHL, if not the top team. They want these players to be playing competitive games. I mean, you saw how, you know, all in they were at the end of this past season. They called up the big guns for the AHA playoffs. I know that Wilkesbury really didn't go anywhere in the HL playoffs, but they've been serious about winning ever since this new regime came in. And a move like this only continues to show that.

You know, I will always be down with going with a high upside type of player like Lindgren here, who's put up good numbers and juniors to see what he can do in the American League now. Yeah, and you didn't really spend anything big to get them. You didn't go out and trade assets to bring him in. You just sign him to an HL deal. You see how he does and you go from there. But I think that'll wrap up this edition of the Locked-on Penguins podcast. We appreciate you guys tuning in Monday through Friday and hanging with us,

even in the dog days of summer. We love you for it. But like I said, that'll do it for this one. I'm going to let Hunter go enjoy his travels. I'm going to enjoy the weekend. And I'm going to let you guys do the same thing. But don't you worry, Hunter and I will be back on Monday with a new episode.

But for Hunter Hodes, I am Patrick Dam. Thank you again for tuning in. And we will talk to everybody next week.