Locked On Penguins - Daily Podcast On The Pittsburgh Penguins - Should the Penguins tank and who will the next coach be with Kelsey Surmacz!

Starting point is 00:00:00 Today on Locked-on Penguins, we welcome Kelsey Sermats back to the show. We're going to talk about how tanking just might not work. Some talk about Mike Sullivan and the future Penguins coach, whoever that may be, as well as get some stories from the press box and the beat of the Pittsburgh Penguins. All that coming up right after this. You're Locked-on Penguins, your daily podcast on the Pittsburgh Penguins, part of the Locked-on Podcast Network, your team every day. Welcome in to the Wednesday edition of Locked-on Penguins.

Starting point is 00:00:40 I'm your host, Patrick Damp. You can follow me across all social media platforms at Synonym for Wet. We are obviously without the one and only Hunter Hodes today, as we told you at the end of the show yesterday. He's off seeing Metallica, so hope he's having a pretty good time doing that. But as always, we appreciate you making us part of your daily routine. Don't forget that we are free and available wherever you get your podcasts as well as YouTube and the Roku channel. And if you're following us on YouTube, go ahead and hit that notification button. That way you can be among the first to know when we drop our daily Monday through Friday episodes.

Starting point is 00:01:21 And today we welcome back once again, one of the best friends of the Locked On Penguins podcast, the one and only Kelsey Sermats from the hockey news. and Kelsey always love having you on the show. It is always a blast. It's always great hockey talk. So once again, welcome back to Locked-on Penguins. And once again, thanks for having me back. I always enjoy being on here.

Starting point is 00:01:47 So appreciate it. It's always a good time. Always great hockey discussions when you join the show. So our listeners know that I felt the wrath of Penguin's social media early. this year, whether it was on blue sky, whether it was in the comment section of our show, whether it was people DMing Hunter to tell them, tell him that I'm stupid. But I went on a rant about how I don't want this team to tank. I understand the compulsion.

Starting point is 00:02:19 I understand the desire for it because it's the Pittsburgh Penguins. Tanking has worked pretty well for this organization and its history. Don't let them tell you they've never tanked, because they absolutely have tanked. Just go ask Mario Lemieux how that worked out. And obviously we've gotten the likes of Sidney Crosby, Evgeny Malkin, Jordan Stahl, so many others who were picked high in the draft

Starting point is 00:02:46 after some really, really poor seasons. But you said something the other day that I looked at it and I said, I have an ally in this fight. you basically said on Blue Sky that tanking for the purpose of getting one player does not work anymore. The NHL almost actively discourages it. And we saw that this past week with the NHL draft lottery when New York Islanders jumped up and got the first overall pick. The Penguins actually moved down two spots because of that. So I just kind of want you to take the floor here in the moment.

Starting point is 00:03:30 my ally in this about why tanking is not usually the best idea in the NHL these days. Well, you said it. I mean, this draft was proof of that. Now, I'm not going to go out and say this usually happens because I don't think anybody had it on their bingo card. The two teams within the top nine were going to jump into the top four, you know, in this draft lottery. It's not something that happens often.

Starting point is 00:03:56 But I think this kind of serves as a cautionary tale that, you know, the islanders finished above the penguins in the standings, and they're picking first overall this season. So, you know, there's a lot of tanking talk, especially for next year with Gavin McKenna, and I get it. You know, there's generational talent, and when, you know, that's the case, it's hard not to be enticed by the idea of tanking.

Starting point is 00:04:20 But the fact of the matter is, you have all these teams in the mix. You have the bottom, well, not technically 16 teams, but you have the bottom 10 teams in the mix to get that first overall picks. So it's just kind of one of those things. The lottery is a crapshoot. It is.

Starting point is 00:04:35 It always has been. That's the way it's going to be since, you know, and that's how it has been since it's been incepted into the NHL draft selection process. So I think, again, that this year kind of serves as a reminder of that. And, I mean, also, too, given the pool of talent this year, I just don't think that them bumping down a couple spots is the end of the world. And then we can probably get to that in a second. But, you know, there's not a whole lot of teams that actively tank nowadays.

Starting point is 00:05:06 I'd argue that maybe the three this year were San Jose, Chicago, and Anaheim. And, you know, there were a couple teams that threw in the towel after the deadline. You can think of the Bruins, flyers, you know, a couple of these other teams that kind of joined in later. But this is exactly what the league is trying to prevent by having the draft lottery in place. And results like this show exactly why it doesn't always. fan out the way that these teams want it to pan out. Right. And you brought up a couple things there that I agree with and kind of want to expand upon. One, this is a pretty shallow draft this year. There's maybe three or four really good talents, guys who will jump into the NHL

Starting point is 00:05:52 either right way at some point next season. They may not be ready made right out of the gate, but they'll be ready much sooner rather than later. And for next year, I kind of want to, I don't want to say amend my anti-tanking stance because I still believe in, it's more than just going for a top pick. It can really poison the culture of an organization, because then if you throw everything out,

Starting point is 00:06:22 you only depend upon one or two young guys, you don't get the draft luck that you need. some guys don't pan out. It can really turn into a long process. Go look at Anaheim, go look at Buffalo, go look at a handful of teams that haven't really been able to get out of spinning their wheels. But next year is a year where I'm not going to say I would be anti-tanking because if you have seen highlights of Gavin McKenna, I'm of the mindset that just like the CHL, the NHL really should probably consider at some point, considering to consider exceptional status because McKenna doesn't look like he has anything left to prove. He looks like he could have competed for the Calder trophy this year. He's that good. But putting that all to the side, let's talk about what happened on Monday. Hunter and I touched on it a little bit on our show on Tuesday. The penguins moved down from 9th to 11th. Obviously it sucks falling out of the top 10, especially

Starting point is 00:07:27 in a draft like this one where it's pretty shallow once you get outside of the top, I would say five or six, you're going to get a good player, you're going to get somebody who will be a good prospect, but they're not going to be ready for maybe a year or two. So you look at the Penguins falling to 11, and your thoughts on that and what it means for this team's timeline as it currently stands. I honestly just don't think it affects anything as far as timeline. You know, as you said, I think there's kind of a consensus, maybe top six players in this draft, I'd say.

Starting point is 00:08:05 But beyond that, I mean, to me anyway, you know, it'd be nice if the Penguins were able to draft Victor Eklund at 9th. But even that was a little bit of a stretch at this point just because of the season he had and his draft stock rising. You know, I think I'm of the belief that about 7 through 14 is a pretty even pool of talent. So I don't think that at, you know, 11th, they're going to get a worse player per se than they would have at 9th. And, I mean, you think, too, we don't know what's going to happen with that Rangers pick yet. The Rangers are currently slotted at 12th.

Starting point is 00:08:42 I'm of the belief that they're probably going to keep that pick. But, you know, if they decide to defer the pick to next season, because as you said, the draft is much deeper next year. There's a little bit more incentive to keep those higher picks for next season. you know, the Penguins will be drafting 11th and 12th, and they can get two of, you know, that pretty good pool of players. So for me, I just don't think this really moves the needle at all in terms of timeline. I don't think it affects anything going forward. You have to remember, too, West Clark, Kyle Dubas, had a really good draft year last year.

Starting point is 00:09:13 I mean, there is value in the first round anywhere you select. A lot of this comes down to scouting. A lot of it comes down to how the organization develops, players. I hate using the capitals as an example all the time because I don't think it's an apples to apples comparison per se. But you know, you think about where the capitals are now. The only player they drafted in the top 10 was Ryan Leder in 2023. They picked him eighth overall. A lot of these younger guys are leading the charge for the capitals, you know, the protests, the McMichaels, and those guys weren't top 10 picks. So to me, this comes more down.

Starting point is 00:09:53 to, you know, the selection and who Wes Clark and Kyle Dubus pinpoint as that guy. But I think in terms of talent, that pulls pretty even in those, you know, between that 7 to 14 slot. I would certainly agree. And I do think the, I don't want to say golden ticket because that puts a lot more emphasis on it than is required. But you look at West Clark's body of work as well as Kyle Dubas's body of work when they were together in Toronto. Sure, that was a young team on the come-up, and they had plenty of young

Starting point is 00:10:27 talent already in the system. But by the time those two really started to have to put their heads together, the Maple Leafs were starting to become one of the better teams in the Eastern Conference. So they weren't picking high in the draft. They were picking in that mid-range, whether it was the teens or the early 20s, depending upon how the season went. So, and you look at the Leafs now, they have a couple of young players. I look at someone like Matthew Nyes, who they didn't get him all that high in the draft. That is a guy they scouted,

Starting point is 00:11:02 they identified and said he develops correctly. He will be a good part of this team for a long time, and that's starting to bear fruit. So I have a lot of trust in those two for pinpointing someone with, say, the 11th overall pick, especially in a draft where you have to figure a lot of teams are going to overthink it because it's a shallow draft. Everybody's going to want to try to galaxy brain it and become,

Starting point is 00:11:30 oh, we found this quote unquote sleeper. Whereas you see the history with Dubas and Clark, they are able to identify some of those guys that maybe other teams aren't looking at or maybe other teams have their doubts about and they can turn them into a productive player. But that is going to do it for our opening segment. When we come back, Kelsey and I are going to talk a little bit about the dismissal. That's what at least what I'm calling it of Mike Sullivan and what the future holds for the Pittsburgh Penguins. We'll get her thoughts on that.

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Starting point is 00:12:54 So get snacking and get cracking with the snack that packs a protein punch. Visit wonderful pistachios.com to learn more. All right, welcome back to the Wednesday edition of Locked-on Penguins. I'm Patrick Damp, Hunter Hodes. He's got the day off. He's going to see Metallica. So riding shotgun with me today is the hockey news is one. only Kelsey Sermats. And we're a little over a week removed from the shocking news that the

Starting point is 00:13:22 penguins have moved on from head coach Mike Sullivan. The one thing I kind of wanted to pick your brain about on this one, Kelsey, is the team in the organization, when it first got announced last Monday, they framed it as a kind of mutual parting of the ways where Sullivan agrees, he's going to move on, the penguins agree, they're going to move on, and we're all going to hold hands and have a Merry Christmas or however you want to frame it. Then you listen to Kyle Dubus's press conference and, while he doesn't obviously go out there in trash Mike Sullivan, I think you can tell those two had a tremendous working relationship and had a ton of

Starting point is 00:14:05 respect for one another. The way Dubis talked about it, this wasn't so much a mutual parting of the ways. Sullivan kind of got fired. So your thoughts on that and how you think, at least in your opinion, how that came to be. Yeah, I would have to agree. I don't think this was necessarily mutual. I don't think it was 100%, you know, we're kicking you out the door sort of thing. I think there may have been, and this is just purely speculation,

Starting point is 00:14:33 but there just may have been a few, you know, differences in terms of timeline and just where they thought the team was at. And also, too, I mean, I think a sticking point for me, and part of the reason I definitely agree that this wasn't exactly mutual is the sticking point of Dubus's press conference was development. He kept kind of stressing that, you know, they said they're going to cast a wide net for this coaching search. But then he kept coming back to development and saying like, hey, you know, we're interested in guys who have coached in the lower levels and the AHA and juniors. in NCAA. So just kind of that sentiment from Dubus and just the way he was framing that made it kind of feel like they wanted somebody who kind of specialized in working with younger players. And I did appreciate that during the presser, you know, Dubus brought up,

Starting point is 00:15:29 somebody asked the question, it might have been Taylor Haas, you know, about this narrative and Sullivan with younger players. I will be the first person to tell you that I don't agree with a lot of the narratives on social media. I think part of the issue, you know, since those copiers is that the penguins just haven't had young talent like they do now. And, you know, you saw this season when they did have that talent, Sullivan put Biele Coivin and Rucker McGority and rules that were going to make them successful. So I don't think it was necessarily that he didn't work well with younger players. but I mean reading into those comments, if you will, with Dubus, it seems like they want somebody who's a little bit more, I guess,

Starting point is 00:16:13 specialized in that arena of working with development. So it kind of sounded like they needed a change. Dubus also mentioned that this is something that wasn't just, you know, just now decision. This is something that he had thought about at various points throughout the season, whether it was time to move on. and he ultimately came to that decision after his end of season meeting with Mike Sullivan. So while it's a mutual parting of ways, and I do think part of it is just, you know,

Starting point is 00:16:43 like I said, might be timeline differences. Maybe Sullivan thought this team was going to be ready a little sooner than Dubus thought. And, you know, Debus or Sullivan even said in a few press conferences leading up to this, that, you know, he talked about Washington and kind of retooling and, you know, those situations. even though that's the case, I think this was mostly, hey, we need a new voice, we need to move on. And this was dubus dismissing him, I think. That's kind of where I stood on it. And this is why other, obviously the reason you are here is you are fantastic at what you do.

Starting point is 00:17:18 But I just needed another ally, not that Hunter isn't one Hunter and I obviously at this point are operating on the same brain it feels like at times. but I constantly brought that up on the show was that there was the narrative that he hates young players, he buries them, but the Penguins organization since those cup runs has just been chock full of what I call quad A guys. They're guys who probably are too good for the AHL anymore, but they're not good enough to be regular NHL contributors. and because this is just how the hockey fan brain and the hockey mind works, you see a young guy and you tell yourself, oh, he just needs a chance and he's going to be the next star, he's going to be the next guy. Penguins just didn't have those players,

Starting point is 00:18:05 but we talked ourselves into them. And then you brought up the same thing I said of, Velae Coivinen and Rector McGrody came up at the end of the year. He put him in the top six, put him on the power play, put him on the penalty kill, and it wasn't for a single game. it was for the entirety of their stay with the big club. So it's not that he doesn't trust young players,

Starting point is 00:18:25 just hasn't had them for quite a while. Now, I look at this and obviously this search has barely begun because it was a genuine surprise last week, little inside baseball behind the scenes for our listeners here. We were setting up an episode with Jesse Marshall on the day it happened, And I straight up had to tell them, nope, throw it all out. They just got rid of Sullivan. So we got to talk about this today.

Starting point is 00:18:54 But I do think you're on to something. And it does feel like this is not going to be a retread. It's not going to be somebody you know. This is probably going to be a name that you're going to see their resume. And it's going to be CHL, AHL, AHL, maybe even ECHL or somewhere in Europe. but the one name that keeps coming up that I want to get your thoughts on because I hear it all the time and I'll spoil it a little bit but I'll let you go on it is is Rick Talkett. I just don't see it.

Starting point is 00:19:33 I understand the connection. I understand why people would think he'd be a fit, but I'm just not seeing it with Rick Talkett. What are your thoughts on him potentially being a name in the mix for this job? I mean, I think he'll be in the mix. You know, when Dubus said that they were going to cast a wide net, I believe him, I think they're going to, you know, look into pretty much everybody that might walk through that door and have some kind of resume. And, you know, I agree with you just kind of building off of that that I don't think there's going to be a retread

Starting point is 00:20:07 unless this is a situation where the rebuild is going to take longer than anticipated and they might need like a bridge guy like David Quinn or something like that. But in terms of talk, you know, I see the appeal. He has a great relationship with Sidney Crosby. And with the Corps, obviously he was here for the cup runs of 2016, 2017 as an assistant coach. So he's built relationships. He kind of has a foundation here.

Starting point is 00:20:33 Also kind of has a reputation with being good with younger players. That's something that's followed him throughout his coaching tenure. but to me, I just feel like a Rick Tocket hire would essentially be almost a retread of Mike Sullivan, you know. So that's kind of more so why I don't see it happening just because, you know, if they were going to hire somebody like that, like a Rick Tocket, you know, Peter LaViolette, any of those kinds of guys, please know. But yeah, I made the face and she said, for those who are listening and not. watching on YouTube the name la violette came up and that was that was a big grimace sorry to interrupt you but absolutely not no we're not doing it no i agree i agree but so yeah i mean if it is a retread it i think it probably is him but i just don't see that because if that's the case why not just

Starting point is 00:21:30 keep solven around other than you know shifting the the vibe in the room or just the staleness Like I really think this is going to be a situation where they have, even though they say they're casting a wide net, kind of a specific tool set in mind and just a specific experience in mind. And like I said, I think that's going to be more along the developmental side rather than hiring a retread. For sure. And I don't want to come off as saying I don't believe Tocket can't work with young players, can't develop. I think he can. but I look at Talket in two separate, with two separate buckets, right? One, he can work with younger players, but I don't think that he, like you said,

Starting point is 00:22:20 it would very much be almost a retread for Mike Sullivan. And where that comes kind of in conflict for me is you look at the way this team has played over the past couple of years. And while it's been disappointing, there was no real indication that they were quitting on Mike Sullivan. This was just a badly undermanned team. They just weren't good. And they fought right to the end, especially the last two seasons. And usually when you can tell a team has checked out from their coach, they check out at the stretch run. They see the cottage on the horizon. They see their vacation on the horizon. And they just want to get out of Dodge. And you

Starting point is 00:22:58 didn't see that from the Penguins this year. It was not a thing this year. It was not a thing last year. So you bring in Rick Tocket. It feels like it's going to be more of the same. And then the other thing I look at it for Rick Tocket is Hunter and I have had this conversation as well. Adam Gretz has brought this up himself, who has kind of been the inspiration for this take is he's got a great PR team. I don't think in any world he's a bad coach. He's not somebody that is going to leave you scratch in your head and think, how does this guy keep getting work? But his teams play well defensive. but then they become a black hole offensively. And that's just not the DNA of the Pittsburgh Penguins.

Starting point is 00:23:39 It never has been. So even if they're not trying to make the playoffs, he's a coach who has only made it twice in his head coaching career. And while it might work in the short term, he is a guy to me that the organization would probably want to do right by. And once this team gets back to playoff contention, it doesn't feel like he'd be the guy to get from there.

Starting point is 00:24:04 Yeah, and I agree with that, 100%. And that's why I don't see this being a situation where they bring TocCid in. Because like I said, I really feel like if it's going to be a retread, it's a guy, a bridge guy. It's not going to be somebody that they expect to, you know, go through the whole process. And that's something, I mean, Kyle Dubas brought up in his presser a lot for a couple times, too, when talking about Mike Sullivan. He said, you don't see coaches compete, go into Reboat Mel. mode and then come out the other side competing again. You just don't see that happening.

Starting point is 00:24:37 And oftentimes you don't see coaches coming in kind of towards the beginning of a rebuild and coming out the other side of it either. So that's why, I mean, like I said, if they hire a retread, I imagine it'd probably be David Quinn just because of the familiarity. And, you know, he kind of has a little bit of familiarity with the room. But he hasn't been there long enough for the system to have been in or for things not to change, I guess. But I just think they're going to be gunning for somebody who can be there for the now and

Starting point is 00:25:12 the future. And to me, that screams development and somebody, like we've said a couple times already, in those developmental leagues, like a Todd Nelson, just somebody, somebody like that, David Carl was thrown around before his name was taken out of the mix. So I think that's more so what we're going to see here. And Quinn has certainly guided. a couple teams through a tanking rebuild. So maybe he is the guy, even if we're anti-tanking.

Starting point is 00:25:37 But I digress. That is going to do it for our middle segment when we come back. Nice little way to end the show today. Kelsey just finished her first season full-time on the beat for the hockey news covering the penguins. For you guys, we're going to get a nice look into what it's like being on the beat for the Pittsburgh Penguins and following a professional hockey team through an NHL season. we will talk about that when we get back, but first, a message from bear mattresses.

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Starting point is 00:27:30 Kelsey, you just finished up your first year on the beat covering the penguins for the hockey news. And if I do say so myself, did a damn good job covering the team through what was probably not the most fun season, but it is certainly a job that I know a lot of people would love to have. So I just wanted to pick your brain for a couple minutes to end the show about just what it's like on a date day covering a team, whether it's on game day, practice day, press conferences. So let's start with that. Let's go through what a typical game day looks like for you when you were covering the team this season.

Starting point is 00:28:17 What does the day start like? How does it go? And how does it end? Yeah, well, game days, obviously there's the morning skate. You go cover morning skate. a lot of times there's not full attendance at morning skates. So in terms of content, it's better to go to the practice days just because practices are full participation. Yeah, so, you know, you get to go to the rink in the morning.

Starting point is 00:28:44 Kind of makes you feel like a kid again. You talk to everybody. You're right for a few hours and you head down to the rink, spend some time in the media room, talk to Sully pregame if there's not a morning skate that day. Then you just kind of spend some time in the park. press box wait for the game to start um i got to say i i there's no complaints for me about this gig like i said it kind of it kind of makes you feel like a kid again you go you go to the rink to work i mean i never thought that i'd be doing this um in actuality obviously something i went

Starting point is 00:29:18 studied and went to college for and you know work towards but to actually just be able to work at a hockey rink is it's it's a damn cool i got to say yeah it's it's a ton of fun i was on the other side of it for a few years. I was work in media relations and PR and digital media for a couple of teams in the ECHL and the AHL. And you hit the nail on the head. It makes you feel like a kid because especially on game days, even if you're wearing business attire,

Starting point is 00:29:50 you're still walking into a hockey rink. You're watching hockey. You're getting paid to watch hockey and work in hockey. And it's it's truly a dream. dream come true. So one of the things, and I, you know I did it, but I will cop to it anyway on the show. I stole the Jesse Pooley-R-V-Tong-out meme from you. At any time I had a moment to use it on social media. I took every in any chance to share that out because the guy was just a complete goof with the faces he made, whether it was in the locker room, on the ice, on the bench,

Starting point is 00:30:27 you name it. But obviously I'm not going to ask you to talk about, oh, who's your favorite person to talk to or all this kind of stuff. But what really, if you had to pick a memory or two or a moment or from interacting with players or interacting with staff, what are some of the things that stand out to you from your first season on the beat? Yeah. I mean, well, first of all, I think it's really important to to kind of get out there. You know, these guys are regular people behind the scenes. You know, just like you and me, when we're sitting here doing nothing or just passing the time,

Starting point is 00:31:09 we pull out our phones and we just scroll and, you know, kind of pass the time. These guys are the same way. I mean, they know what's being said about them out in the social media universe. I learned that this year. I had a couple guys say that they literally like read stuff that I wrote. about them like Cody Glass Cody Glass was great the whole like Cody Glass

Starting point is 00:31:32 Owen Pickering dynamic was a really fun one to kind of be behind the scenes with but anyway Cody Glass told me that you know he saw my tweets about him and Owen Pickering in the locker room I wrote a story about them growing up in Winnipeg together and kind of experiencing the revival

Starting point is 00:31:51 of NHL hockey there so you know that kind of part of it is fun just knowing that, you know, it's kind of two-sided in that way for some of these guys. And if I had to pick a specific story, I mean, I know that everybody tells stories about Sid, right? I mean, this isn't a new thing. But I remember just it was earlier in the season and there's always a scrum around Sid.

Starting point is 00:32:16 It's extremely hard to get a one-on-one with Sid because everybody just wants to talk to him, which is understandable. I mean, he's the guy you go to to talk to in there. everybody's waiting on him. They all kind of straggle in there, and Sid's usually one of the last players into the locker room. But anyway, there was one day, there was a scrum around somebody else,

Starting point is 00:32:37 and I was going to talk to Sid for a one-on-one, and he had to be somewhere. He actually had like a sponsorship thing that he was filming that day, and he noticed that I was standing there, but then he kind of just left and was pretty quiet about it. And then immediately when he comes back in, He remembers that I was like waiting for him, you know, earlier.

Starting point is 00:32:59 And he turns to me and he just addresses me and like remembers that I was waiting for him the first time, even though a scrum came around him. He made sure that I was able to get my questions in when we first came back in there. And he was the first person that he made sure to talk to whenever he came back in. So that was kind of, you know, all the stories about Sid are 100% true. He's literally one of a kind, just all. class and he remembers little stuff like that. So that kind of stood out to me, I'd say it was probably one of many stories from this year. You do love to find out that it's, and obviously we're 20 years into it. We know that it's not an act. We know that he's not one person in public

Starting point is 00:33:45 and another in private. We've heard so many great stories about 87 and everything that he is done for hockey and he's done for people in the community. But it never gets old hearing that he continues to be that ideal person to lead your organization. But I think that's going to do it for our Wednesday episode. But before we go, Kelsey, let everybody know where they can find you, what you're working on and anything that you would like to plug. The floor is yours. Yeah. So you can find me on the hockey news, Pittsburgh Penguins website. We're going to be doing lot of draft coverage, just especially with everything that just happened with the lottery. I have been working on some profiles for some potential draft prospects for the penguins

Starting point is 00:34:31 that are in that position. So stay tuned for that. I also have a podcast called Pucks an at every Wednesday. We'll also be bringing Jesse Marshall on today. So he is a popular guest. So give a listen to Pucks and that. Now you can find me on socials at Kelsey underscore Cormats for on X. and same thing on blue sky without the underscour.

Starting point is 00:34:53 Kelsey, as always, we appreciate you taking the time to come on locked on penguins. And that is going to do it for our Wednesday episode. So for Kelsey Surrats, for Hunter Hodes. I'm Patrick Damp. Thank you, as always, for tuning in. We will be back with a brand new episode for you on Thursday.

Locked On Penguins - Daily Podcast On The Pittsburgh Penguins - Should the Penguins tank and who will the next coach be with Kelsey Surmacz!

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