Locked On Penguins - Daily Podcast On The Pittsburgh Penguins - Talking some more Jack Johnson, this time with Josh Yohe!

Episode Date: August 20, 2020

More Jack Johnson news came out today, this time courtesy of Josh Yohe's interview with Penguins general manager Jim Rutherford where GMJR publicly defended Johnson again. Hunter brought on Josh Yohe himself for this episode to talk about that interview and if there's still a chance Johnson could be traded during this offseason. They also talk about more pressing questions going into the offseason, such as Patric Hornqvist maybe being on his way out, Jared McCann's contract situation, what the team will do with the 15th pick, etc. Also, just how mad was Penguins management with Justin Schultz during the Penguins? Josh details that in here, too. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello, welcome to this edition of the Locked-on Penguins podcast. I'm your host, Hunter Hodes. Follow me on Twitter at Hunter Hodes. Follow the show is Twitter at L-O-U-U-U-Square. Today's show is brought to you by rockado.com. So we had a lot of big news. Again, of course, during the Penguins off-season. Wow, that's to be expected, of course,

since they had the big exit against Montreal. But we did have another article that came out about Jack Johnson today from Joshioliath, The Athletic, who spoke to Jim Rutherford, who had some interesting comments, I would put it that way. And, of course, the whole analytic community on Twitter and just even other fans who aren't really big into analytics just went berserk. But to talk about that article and just so much more regarding the Penguins offseason is the man, the myth, the legend himself. Josh Yoey, Josh, how are you doing today, sir?

I'm good, and I wanted to apologize. It seems like I ruined a lot of people's days with my article. I feel slightly guilty. That wasn't really my intention to don't shoot the message. but I am well and it's good to see you once again. Yes. Yeah, please, please, guys, do not have to direct your anger towards Josh. He's the one that just gets the quotes from Jim Rutherford and puts them on the website.

He does not control Judd and Rutherford's love, I guess, loveness of Jack Johnson himself. So I guess we can just get right into it, Josh. I'm not going to, of course, spoil the whole article because I want people to subscribe to the athletics since you guys do outstanding work. And that piece was really good. But one thing that one of the things that really jumped out, I think to me and a lot of people, was when he said he's a good third pairing defenseman if he plays with the right guy. So does that player even exist out there? I mean, that's just the one that really boggled. I think a lot of people's minds. Well, and first things, first hunter, the organization has just turned on Justin Schultz something fierce. There's no question who that was a shot at. And took a shot at Schultz last week also. when he defended Johnson and said Schultz had a lot more to give.

And I have heard numerous stories from people in the organization. I've told me that coaching staff really felt like Schultz came into camp out of shape and not really seriously prepared for the playoffs. And that might be true. I don't know. But my question then is, why the hell was he playing? And he didn't play well. Let's not act like Justin Schultz played well either.

No, he didn't. You have Ruehiel, a very capable guy. why didn't you put him in the lineup if you were that down on Schultz was odd to me they did not of course and Johnson I mean yeah it was there were a couple of things that Jim said that I knew we're going to get the attention of everybody he struggled and with the money that he makes I'd certainly be looking to deal him if I were Jim and maybe Jim is listen Jim's no rookie he could be trying to talk him up a little bit that he's not above doing that but I don't get that sense I've actually been told that my members of the coaching staff told Johnson they were pleased with how we played this season in his exit interview so take that for what it's worth well now now for the three assistant coaches are out the door and so that's that's going to be interesting to see if some new voices come in they're going to have a difference of opinion on that it was just it was just so like I don't know mind-boggling to read it a bit and I think the other the other one that stuck out to me

as well is you know we're not concerned with his cap situation and it's like I mean I know 3.25 million is not a lot, but when you're a salary cap team, you spend up to the cap like the Penguins do because Mario and Ron Berkel are just great owners. But that just, that hurts. And going into last season, this past season, you had almost 9 million against your cap with that bottom pairing. You can't do that. You're going to lose 5.5 million with Schultz. And like you did say, it was weird that he was playing too. It was weird that he went on to the six on five situation and wasn't Brian Russ or Jason Zucker.

was out there, so I don't really know why they did that. And it's just, you just can't afford to make these mistakes, I don't think, especially when you have, like, a couple years now with evidence where, you know, maybe the analytics aren't kind to him, but you also, like, if people don't look at the analytics, you can just see that he's just, like, he struggled out there, and that's, like, my thing. What, do they need, like, the perfect player to play with him? Do they need to go back and get Paul Coffey or something like that? Well, the only time Johnson really looked good this season was when he was playing with

John Marino. But I don't think you want John Marino playing with Johnson because if you do that, that makes Johnson a member of your top four. And he's not a top four defenseman. Even the Penguins admit that. So I don't know who the right person is to play with Johnson. I will say, I thought he and Schultz brought out the worst in each other, too. They were just a horrible pairing. We saw it against the Islanders last season, in fact. They're just no good together, but I don't think there's the right guy. The numbers are what they are with Jackie, you know, He's just not a very good skater anymore. There's a lot of issues there with him.

I don't need to tell you that. You're a smart guy. You saw it for yourself. As for a salary cap situation, yeah, three and a quarter million is not a ton of money to the penguins. But you know what? It's still something. And when I look at them,

they're not going to break up the core. I don't think Latang, Crosby, or Malkin are going anywhere. And I still think their top six is really good on paper. That was Zucker and Gensel Crosby, Malcolm. We know that. So where do they really need to figure things out? To me, it's on the bottom six. Yeah, Tannov's really good.

He's certainly made a difference. Blugers, okay, but they've got some real question marks on that bottom six. And, you know, three and a quarter million dollars, well, guess what? That's enough to get you a good bottom six player. So it's not like that money couldn't help the penguins in some way. It absolutely could. I wasn't shocked by his comments because I know how he feels about Jack. certainly on a personal level

and even as a player he said it many times he values Jack more than other people do but the salary cap you said it it's a real problem for the Penguins that you know Jim wants to make some changes but he's right up against it with the cap so this is going to be a fascinating

off season I know there are a lot of Penguins fans so I get the feeling enjoy the off season more than the season almost and uh maybe not you but I know a lot to This one's going to be wild, I'm telling you. Yeah, and you and Rob reported last week that they're looking to cut some salary anyway because I think it's been mandated from Mario and Ron that they want, like, is it just some more cap room during the season or something?

Or is it because of COVID mostly? Yeah, mainly because of that. They always like to have a couple of million breathing room just to make a move or two. Now, we were told it's really a COVID thing. And listen, they're not making any money right now. They're hemorrhaging money is all professional sports teams. teams are. And even the bigger issue is the 20-21 season. We don't know when it's going to start. We don't know if fans will be permitted in the building. And thus, we don't know how much

revenue of the Penguins or other teams will we bring it in. So I think there will be a lot of teams that don't want to spend the salary cap until they know what's going on. You can't really blame them for that. But that's another reason, I think, if you can get rid of Jack Johnson's salary and maybe play a rookie like P.O. Joseph or find someone who, you know, plays for a million a year. a better player anyway. To me, it makes sense. And I also wonder this. How easy and or difficult would it be to trade Jack at this point? I mean, maybe there's a team out there that would take him. It might be one of those deals where you want Matt Murray in a draft pick. That's fine, but you've got to take Jack Johnson too. And maybe it could work out that way. But it's a tough

thing to do. And by the way, for the people who think they should buy out Jack Johnson, I totally disagree. He would be on the books for the next six years. It's still over a million a year. I don't think that's any better. That's still a problem. Almost like a Bobby Benilla thing of the New York Mets with that. He'll be getting paid for about 20 or 15. I can't remember. It's just been so so long. And finally in that article, I didn't see where it was weird.

He was like, you know, he didn't straight up say like, I'm not trading this player. And I've kind of seen Jim like, you know, I think it was before the James Neal trade. He was like, yeah, I'm not really going to trade him. And then he trades James Neal. And then I thought they were, he said, yeah, we're pleased with Rob Skadari. And then he just deals him for Trevor Daly. So it's like, do you foresee like a circumstance where this similar, it just could be really similar with Jim trading Jack Johnson after saying all this stuff? Or like, could you just see him really moving him this off season even after these comments, I guess is my question.

It's certainly conceivable. Remember, they tried to trade him last year with Phil Kessel to Minnesota. That trade was vetoed by Phil the Thrill. And boy, would that have been nice for the penguins? You would have ditched yourself of Johnson Salarine and gutton Zucker. or then you wouldn't have had to give up Caden, Addison, or a first-round pick. So that would have been a magnificent trade for the penguins, I would say. They couldn't quite pull that one off.

So they have tried. It is certainly conceivable. They still have to shed some salary. And what if you can't find any takers for Nick Bukstad? How else are you going to get rid of some of that salary? They still want to change things up and get younger. So my sense is they are absolutely going to trade Matt Murray. I'd be shocked if they didn't at this point.

Yeah. With Johnson, I don't think they're against the idea of it. Jim said today, you know, I think he's going to ply out his contract for the next three years. He said whether it's in Pittsburgh or elsewhere. So that doesn't mean he wouldn't trade him. I think he would, but I don't think he feels obligated to the way most in the fan base I think would like him to. Yeah, and well, there is that big, another expansion team is coming. So, I mean, you can maybe say if you don't want to take this player, you know, can you take Jack Johnson?

and so you can rig ourselves that almost how they did with Mark Andre Fleury back in 2017 where they were just like, hey, we'll give up a second round and pick forward. So I could definitely see them

doing that. But, you know, we have a lot of more off-season stuff to get to in the next couple of segments, especially with all of his comments. He's talked a lot these past couple weeks.

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Okay, Josh, so let's just get it right into all the other off-sense. and stuff. You know, by reading his comments, it almost seems as if he want, Jim Rutherford wants like a Neil for Hornquist kind of trade again, just to change up the culture of the team.

I'm kind of like moving towards then maybe dealing Hornquist. I don't know if Jim would do it because he just signed him to an extension. I know you said they're not going to move the core. They really shouldn't. But if you had to maybe pick a player that's maybe not Matt Murray,

that's like kind of close to a core player who do you think that who do you think they would move i guess well hornquist is interesting um they love him and i see why he he doesn't wear a letter on his sweater but he should he's one of those guys and even though he wasn't great in this postseason nobody was he you always want him on your team in the playoffs he has a track record of performing in the postseason you could get something for him too uh there have to be teams out there who haven't quite gotten over the hump yet. They would like to have him on their roster. So it's a possibility.

I don't think Hornquist is going to play out his entire contract in Pittsburgh. I think he saw his three years left. I don't see him here for another three years. I bet he's here for another year. But they're going to have to get rid of some people if they want to change things up. If they don't want to bring the same team back, you know, do you see them maybe trading a really good player to get a really good player back? I'm just going to throw a name out there and I haven't heard anything

and I wouldn't trade this guy. Brian Russ values never going to be higher than it is right now. He was on 40 goal pace this year. He doesn't make much money. You can get a lot back for him. But then again, he's a good player. He's not part of the problem.

Sometimes, though, you have to trade good players to get good players back. You know, the Penguins didn't really want to trade Paul Coffey for Rick Tocket in 1992. Things happen. But I wouldn't be shocked if we see someone get traded. And I'm not suggesting Ross.

I don't really think it will be him. But I could see someone get traded that people aren't really expecting. It could be one of those off-season because the people they have that everybody wants them to trade, whether it be Jack Johnson, Nick Bukestead, even Murray to some extent, Hornquitt. You're not going to get that much in return for any of those guys because those guys all have a certain issue, which is why you want to trade them. In Murray's case, he hasn't been very good to it in the last three years. Warren Quist is getting old.

It makes a lot of the money. Now, you can go down the list. Nick Buxton's always hurt. You're not going to get anything for him, a draft pick if you're lucky. So if you really want to change things and make a splash, you're going to have to maybe trade a little bit of a bigger name. So that's in play right now. I'm fascinated to see how active the trade market will be this offseason. I actually asked Jim about that a few hours ago, and he said, you know, I don't know.

He said a lot of teams are worried about money, so you don't know how many trades will be out there. But it's clear that he's looking for a dance partner or two to make some deals with him to talk. He always is looking for a dance partner no matter what the day is. And you did bring up Matt Murray. The goaltending market is going to be very fascinating this summer. There's so many goleys that are going to be available. Robin Lanner from Vegas, Corey Crawford. I mean, you have Matt Murray.

Henrich Longquist could be out the door in New York with the two goaltenders there. You know, Jacob Markstrom could be available. next season you have Frederick Anderson who's going to be available I think the Leafs don't look like they're too happy with him I just you never know with the goalie market just because like a team could give up a lot to get a good one or if they

don't want like a really good one they just get an average guy and they don't give up as much so that's going to be fascinating your Brian Russ I actually have seen a few people from Hanglin's Twitter bring that up he doesn't really make too much against the gap I think it's 3.5 million but yeah that value's never

been higher it was going to be at least a 30 goal score. I was on a 40 goal pace, as you said. You can probably get back a pretty good player, I think, and Matt trade. I probably just don't see it happening. I'd have brought up Hornquist just because of the cap situation and just because I think his value is going to go down

as that contract just goes further and further in as he gets older. I did also want to touch on another big thing going into this offseason for the Penguins Josh is the third line center situation. I'm of the opinion that I've said it on this podcast before. I've said it on my Twitter. I think Jared McCann should have another go at it at the third line center, but maybe with different linemates. Patrick Marlowe just really wasn't a fit. He just, I don't know what was going on there.

His legs just weren't turning like they used to. Patrick Hornquist on that line. Didn't seem to fit, even though I like Hornquist as a player. But I know it was a tale of two seasons for McCann, but if you give him, I think, competent linemates and, you know, his numbers go back to what they were. I think he can be what the penguins know he can be in that third line center. Do you see them moving him in this long season or maybe trying to move his position? Like, what do you think is going to happen with that situation? Conceivable.

Remember, he's a restricted free agent, so they have to figure out what they're going to pay him also. I would not give up on him. He's 24 years old. You know, he's going to score a 20 goals every year. He's fast, works his tail off. He can play center or wing. Those are a lot of positives. He brings some things to the table.

There's no question. Is he a third line center? He didn't look like one in the postseason, that's for sure. But you bring up a point. Patrick Marlow is just done. I mean, he just, there's nothing there. And I love Hornquist. I respect him so much in the way he plays the game.

And I still think he's really good on the power play. He's not that great five on five anymore. He, you know, he's never been a great skater to begin with. So you bring up a fair point. I would like to see McCann with some different, line mates. Maybe he's just a left wing. That might be what he is. And if that is what he is, then he's probably going to be traded at some point because you've already got Zucker, Gansel and Samuel Pullen coming all left wings. So there might not be room for McCann in the

near future here. But I like him. He's a talented guy. He really is. To me, he's not just the kind of guy you get rid of. I think he's an intriguing player. I just don't think they know what to do with him. And that's something they really need to figure out here in the next few months. And he's still in his young 20s. And I was reading a couple articles, you know, Jeff from Penn's blog where a great one where his shooting percentage, it looked like just tanked the second half of the year despite getting like good chances. And I think that might have been like a, well, honestly, it was probably the big reason why his play fell off. But also it just, there were just other things that involved with his game that just weren't what we're used to seeing. But like

I said, I would give him another go, just give him competent linemates. But, Josh, do you see them going out into free agency, dipping their toes out there, maybe getting a defenseman or something like that, just to play on the right side, you know, play on the left side, especially if they deal Jack Johnson as well. I have to think they would consider bringing in someone on the right side.

That's if, though, they don't think Chad Ruido is the right guy for a full-time job now. Right. Well, you know, they will look into things in free agency. I'm sure they'll get somebody. They always do. It's not going to be a huge name. They're just not going to have the money to throw around, barring a couple of shocking

trades to go get a huge name. I think they're pretty well set in the top four on the blue line with Latang and Dublin and Marino and Peders. That's a pretty good top four. To me, that's an above average top four. So that's a good foundation. If Johnson is still on the team and it looks like he will be, you do have Ruudel there. He's got one year left on his deal.

Ruweedle's a great guy to have as you're not. number seven defenseman and i don't think he's a bad solution to to play in your top six um that said i i have the sense from talking with rutherford that he would like to get somebody for that third pairing probably a right-handed guy don't know who that might be it's not going to be justin shultz i promise you that that that that bridge is pretty clearly burned he's not coming back uh i expect them to get somebody there and free agency might be their best bet there will be some guys who are available. So, yeah, I mean, listen, they got TAN of last year in free agency.

They always find a way to get somebody, but I would not expect a top four defenseman or a top six winger. That just, I don't think financially they can make that happen, but will they add some depth? Yeah, I suspect they will. Yeah, that's probably a pipe dream, I think. I mean, I've advocated on here maybe someone like Dylan DeMello, someone like that, I think he would be really, really good on the third pairing.

For some reason, Josh, I don't know why. Yusel Rechla is in Mike Sullivan's doghouse. He just, for some reason, will not play him no matter what. I don't really, I don't get that one, to be honest with you. I never have either. You know, I watch this guy in practice, and I see a lot of things that I like. He's got a really heavy shot. He can skate.

He's actually physical. He does a great hip check, which you don't see much anymore. I don't think he's a great player. But do I think he was better than Jack Johnson? Yeah, I sure do. And I just felt like, boy, every time Rickula would make a mistake, he was out of the lineup. There was such of a short leash on him. Yeah.

And I don't know if that was a Mike Sullivan thing or a Jacques Martin thing or a Sergey Gontar thing. I don't know. But it was very curious. I mean, he's a restricted free agent. And I doubt they're bringing him back. They didn't seem that enamored with him. So I wouldn't bet on it. I don't think he'd want to be back.

I had a couple of conversations with him. I don't know you so that well. but he made it very clear to me that he wants to play and he was a little missed, I think, as to why he wasn't playing more. So if I were him, I wouldn't come back and I don't think he could be blamed for that. Yeah, I mean, I totally understand that too.

I mean, Jack Johnson was on the ice in the playoffs. They were outscored every time him and Schultz were on the ice. So, I mean, I understand why Rico would be a bit missed, considering he probably thinks he could do a lot better. Josh, just a couple more things before I let you go. The unrestricted free agents for this team, do you foresee them bringing back any of them? I mean, obviously, Patrick Monello is probably going to walk. But, like, Justin Schultz as well, Connor Sherry, are they interested in bringing him back?

I thought he was okay after coming back over from Buffalo, but I'm not really sure they would have the cap to make it happen. And I know he worked really well with Crosby and Gensel, and I know he missed a couple of chances in the Canadian series, but I just want to know what your take is on that one. well first of all justin shultz isn't coming back and patrick marlowe's not coming back that that's just not happening marlowe was a disaster he gave up a third round pick for him which kind of stings and they could really kind of use that right now um shultz with some of the comments we've seen some rutherford he's not coming back sherry if i had to guess i would say no but if he'd be willing to play on a one-year deal and to play for cheap i could see them

bringing him back. He wasn't horrible. You know what you're getting with him. Sid does like playing with him. Between Sherry and Dominic Simone, and Simone's a restricted free agent, remember, he might not be ready for the start of next season. He had pretty major shoulder surgery. Between those two,

I bet one of them comes back. They're both guys. Crosby likes playing with. I like Simone better, actually. I know he doesn't finish, and that drives people nuts, and it drives me nuts, too. But he's a good hockey player. He does do a lot of things that helps you win games. And so if he's willing to play on the cheap, and I suspect he would be, that would be my guess.

I bet Simone comes back and Sherry doesn't. But I think one of those two will indeed return. Yeah, I think I'm with you on that. Don McSpo, he just such a really good playmaking forward. He's very underrated, I think, in that regard. And as you said, I know a lot of people dump on him because of his finishing ability, he always hits a ton of pose. But, you know, scoring goals were easy.

Everyone would be a 50-goal score. I mean, that's just the thing I always like to come back to. But lastly, Josh, the 15th overall pick, you know, the Penguins finally have a top 15 pick for the first time. And Lord knows, how long was it, 2012 or something when they picked that higher? Boy, that was a lot of fun, yeah. Yeah, that's pretty crazy. Josh, do you see them keeping it? I would keep it if I were then, but do you see them keeping it or do you think Jim is going to actually think about dealing it for like an impact player or something like that?

Well, anything is possible with him, and we know he has quite a history of trading first-round draft picks. And I talked with him today about it. He really isn't sure yet. I don't think he's not going to rule anything. I'll put it that way. My guess is they keep that pick. They know they need to get younger as an organization.

They know they need some more talent replenished in their system. And from every scout I've talked with and every quote-unquote draft. expert I've talked with. This, by many accounts, is a spectacular draft. Not just because the kid who's going first is a really, really good prospect, but also it's just a very deep

first round. So picking 15 might be the equivalent of picking 10 or 11 in a normal year. They have a chance to get a really good player. So yes, anything is possible, but especially given that they won't have a first round pick next season because of the Zucker trade,

Minnesota has that deal now. I'd be pretty surprised if they deal this pick. So I know it's against Jim's DNA a little bit to hold on to first round picks, but my guess is the Penguins keep it. It sounds like it's a really good draft to keep it. Yeah. I'm not like a big draft guru myself, but for everything I've read, you know, I've read Bob McKenzie's rankings and everything. It's just, it looks like this is probably one of the deepest drafts that we've seen in quite a while. Oh, one more thing that popped up to me. Josh, we talked about it earlier, but, you know, Jim Rutherford cleaned house with all the assistant coaches. He's definitely really surprised about the Sergei Ganshaw.

I really thought he would stay around. I thought Jack Martin would too. Have you heard anything as to who could replace them on the staff? I wanted a guy I would really want before he would get scooped over a head. Coaching job would be Garrard de Galant because, well, one reason is because I think the capitals could hire him when I think Tom Reardon gets fired after this series. I 100% think that's going to happen, especially being a lot of being. in capitals country, it's not a fun place right now for them with Todd Reardon. But just have you heard any names that have come up, that have come up so far, I guess.

Not really, although the name you just mentioned Todd Reardon is interesting. If he does get fired, I promise you the Penguins will give him a call for a couple of reasons. They loved how he worked with their defensemen in the past. They need somebody for that job. And also, he was the only guy who actually got good results from Crosby and Malkin on the power play without Phil Kessel. Remember, he ran that Penguin's power play, too. He does a great job. I love watching Washington's power play for all their issues.

The guy knows I'd run a power play. So if he's available, I bet you any money the Penguins will extend a courtesy phone call and maybe make a nice offer. Galant is a guy. I know everybody wants him to get him. I just think he's going to hold out for a head coaching job somewhere. You know, why wouldn't he at this point? The guy, he shouldn't have been fired in Vegas, in my opinion.

I think he's a really good coach. If he's willing, heck yeah. It's really early on, so we will see. But I will say you brought up Sergey Ganshar. I was shocked that they did not decide to renew his contract. Recky did not surprise me at all. Martan, not a total shock. Gonshar, you know, I know the issue with him was that he wasn't around all the time

and they wanted him to be full-time, and he preferred to be part-time. His family lives in Dallas. but I have received more texts than phone calls from people in the organization and from people outside of the organization and people who used to play for him, you name it, who were just shocked that they did not bring him back, that told him in the highest of regard. So that was really surprising.

He made a lot of defensemen better, and I think he'll be pretty tough to replace. Yeah, that's going to be, I think, the big one for me. I mean, I guess when you look at it, maybe they need new fresh voices in the room. you know, Mike Sullivan could use someone like, like a Rick Tocket who I think kind of pushed him at times a little bit with some decisions. That's just, I don't really know if that's true.

But that's just my guess at that point. So, yeah, I'm going to be very curious to see who they get as the assistant coaches. Peter Lavielette. I mean, that would be kind of funny just because of what happened in 2012 when you basically went out Dan Bilesma and all of them. I mean, I don't really think also.

I also don't think Peter Lobby let's that good of a coach. But, yeah, Josh, thank you so much for coming on here, man. You provided a lot of good. answers to what's going to happen for the Penguins this off season, especially with our old friend Jack Johnson, who is just everyone's favorite person on Twitter. That's good for talking. It's great. Yeah, it really does.

It just, you know, Penguins fans are very passionate. You know, they love this team. They care about everything that goes on with this team. I know they want Crosby Malkin to get, I think one more cup, you know, the Thai Gretzky and Messier with the duo because I know they won four together. So, yeah, I think that's the best way to put it. But Josh, thank you so much for coming on.

I really do appreciate it. Hunter, always a pleasure. And it's going to be a wild ride this off season. I have a feeling. So we're going to have to do this again at some point. But you take care. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we will definitely do it again in the next couple months,

especially after I think the Stanley Cup playoffs are over. So, yeah, that's great.