Locked On Penguins - Daily Podcast On The Pittsburgh Penguins - Top Pairing Erik Karlsson - who plays more minutes?

Starting point is 00:00:00 The Pittsburgh Penguins now have two number one defensemen, which of the two is going to get the top pairing minutes? Here, Pat and I's answers on that right after this. You're Locked-on Penguins. Your daily podcast on the Pittsburgh Penguins. Part of the Locked-on Podcast Network. Your team every day. Hello and welcome back to another edition of the Locked-on Penguins podcast. I am one of your hosts, Hunter Hodes.

Starting point is 00:00:38 That is Patrick Damp. You can follow me on Twitter. Hunter Hodes. You can follow Pat on Twitter at Sinnam for Wet. And you can follow the show's Twitter at L.O. Undersore Penguins, remind all of you. Thank you all so much for making this your first listen slash watch of the day. And today's episode is brought to you by Bird Dogs. You can go to Birddogs.com slash Lockdown NHL or Endropone Code Lockton NHL for a free white tech hat with any order.

Starting point is 00:01:02 You will not want to take your bird dogs off. We promise you that I do have a little bit of a special guest today. My German Shepherd is in the room because she's also pretty excited that the air. Eric Carlson trade happened on Sunday. But one aspect of the deal that we have not really discussed yet, Pat, is who is going to get the top pairing minutes? Because Eric Carlson has shown an ability to do that throughout his career, but also Chris Lange has done that throughout his career.

Starting point is 00:01:26 And it's already hard enough to take him off the ice. He's the kind of player where if you asked him to play the entire game, he would do it. That's just who he is as a player. And I think at this point, if you're asking me, I'll give my take first and I'll let you go. I think Letang is going to get those minutes, especially at five on five. He has been the number one defenseman on this team for over a decade. And it's going to continue until he retires. I also think he's going to get more minutes on the PK because he's a better player on the PK than Carlson is.

Starting point is 00:02:01 So it's going to be close overall. You know, you can factor in power play time as a whole. but in terms of top pairing minutes, I think the edge goes to Crystal Tane just because of his play out five on five and because of his play on the penalty kill. Well, let me ask you in case you haven't already looked it up, which knowing you, you're a smart man, you probably have.

Starting point is 00:02:23 Do you know which of the two averaged more time on ice last year? I'm going to guess that it's Carlson, actually. It is. Carlson had just a shade over 25 and a half minutes of time on ice last year. Well, Chris LaTang had just under 25. So I know that injuries and circumstance play a factor in that, obviously. You're just, that's one of those moments where, you know, us nerds can get out of Excel and actually watch the game.

Starting point is 00:02:52 So, but, you know, I think I agree with you. But I also think that it's going to be a lot closer than we think. I think this is going to be very much a one-in-one-a situation to what. where there isn't going to be a quote unquote top pair. We're going to have pair 1A and pair 1B. And it's going to depend on the game. There's going to be nights where Chris LaTang might get a little more time because we'll be on the PK.

Starting point is 00:03:21 And we're not putting Eric, we, yeah, like I'm Mike Sullivan. We're not putting Eric Carlson on the PK. We're putting Chris LaTang on the PK. So it's all going to be dependent upon circumstance, but I think it's going to be very even,

Starting point is 00:03:34 especially because when you look at the fact these guys can eat big minutes, but also when they eat those big minutes, they are monsters of possession. So keep the puck on your stick and they're end and out of yours and we're off to the races. And we'll discuss Mike Sullivan a little bit later on for the show with his thoughts on the Carlson trade because he just seems so excited. But with having both of them on the team, it allows him to, you know, give them 23, 24, 25 minutes a night. And then as we discussed earlier this week, the third pairing only has to play 10 to 11 minutes. Like that's the good thing.

Starting point is 00:04:10 And I do get your point. I think it's going to be pretty close. But what I do think, again, bumps Latang over the edge is his play on the penalty kill because Carlson usually hasn't done that throughout his career. Usually Sullivan likes using Latang as one of his first two rotations on the PK with whatever forwards he put out there, whether it's someone like a Brian Russ,

Starting point is 00:04:29 whether it's someone like Nolichari or Matt Nietto coming into this season or other forwards that he puts out there. Latang is one of the first defensive. fence in that goes out there. Dumlin was doing it for a while as well, but he's not there anymore. Pedersen can do it, too, but I think Let's hang, that's why it's just, it's going to put him a little over Carlson there. Power play wise, we've already discussed it. We can go a little more in-depth if you want. I think Carlson is going to be running it from the point, though if you look at the underlines, LeTang is pretty close to Carlson. Actually, some of the underlyingings are better than Carlson when you look at

Starting point is 00:05:01 their impacts on the power by. I think both of them will still be out there. for the power play. But if there are games where Carlson has more minutes than Lantang, it's going to be, I think maybe because of the power play. Maybe he's out there a little more than Chris if Chris is not out there for the entire time for the first unit. But I do. I think it's going to be pretty close.

Starting point is 00:05:21 And this is just a luxury that is so much needed for the Penguins because for the longest time, it's always been, Latang eats the most minutes. And then Duman's next to him. And then after that you have, okay, Marcus Pedersen, you had Ian Cole for a while before he dipped out. Yeah, Justin Schultz eating some minutes on a bottom pairing. But now you finally can reduce Latang's minutes at least a little bit and not have them out there in such high leverage situations. And this is only going to be a good thing. But again, I still think it leans letang in my opinion. Yeah, I agree. And I think too, this is kind of

Starting point is 00:05:55 going to be a great and sorry to the listeners, there's construction going on outside of my house and it's not quiet. So you might be hearing that in the background. My apologies. But I think it's going to be a good thing by committee because you're going to have a way to reduce the minutes for the both of them in a way because they're not going to be on the same pair save for the power play. And I think on the power play too now, it's going to be a little bit of an embarrassment of riches. You're going to have Carlson as the up top quarterback of the power play while you have Crystal Tang on one of the half walls. And that's going to be a big threat. And that's going to really like we've said on this show, like you've said on this show,

Starting point is 00:06:34 especially, that's the Kessel spot. And that's going to be great for that power play. So yeah, I mean, it's going to be interesting to see who gets the minutes here. But I'm looking forward to finding out. That's for sure because it's not a problem as a coach. I would, I want to say it's a problem I wouldn't want to have, but it's a problem I would not be able to solve. I agree.

Starting point is 00:06:55 And another thing we really haven't discussed is the six on five situation, because that is also going to be a lot of fun heading into the season. The Penguins at times, they have struggled to. score six on five goals. I mean, heck was just a few years ago where it felt like the Penguins almost would never score six, six on five goals with the town that they could put out there. But when you think of it now, and I'll go through the six skaters, Crystal Tang, Eric Carlson, of Gennie Malkin, Sidney Crosby, Jake Gensel, Ricard, Raquel, there are not many teams out there that can boast a better lineup for a six on five than the Penguins.

Starting point is 00:07:26 That sounds good. Is that good? Sources confirmed that that is very good, but no, like, and I, and I, I, I might go on a limb and say it right now. People can come back back to this and dunk on me if they want. Whatever. I think the Penguins will lead the league this year and six on five goals. Stamp it. Go ahead.

Starting point is 00:07:45 Well, let's just hope they're never in that spot that they don't have to get a six on five goals. Yes. Let's hope we never have to test said theory or take. Very true. I would like for the Penguins to be in the opposite end of the spectrum where they are trying to hold a lead. But I'm just going to go out of limb and just make a crazy prediction. Heck, it's August 9th right now. they will score the most six on five goals a season to get extra points if needed,

Starting point is 00:08:07 whether it's overtime or whether they win there, winning a shootout, something like that, whatever. But that's my take on that. Is there anything else you want to say regarding top pairing minutes between Latang and Carlson? I mean, I don't expect Latang to be a selfish person if he has a couple minutes taken away. He's really not going to be upset. The guys in his mid-30s now. He's won three Stanley Cups.

Starting point is 00:08:30 Sure, he doesn't want to ignore us, but he's been one of the best defensemen in the league for the last 15 years, I don't think he's really going to care. No, Chris LaTang wants to win, and Eric Carlson helps winning, and that's, that's all I got to say about that. Oh, one more thing. I do want to say before we hit our next segment. Who would you start Carlson with Ryan Graves or Marcus Pedersen? Probably Marcus Pedersen.

Starting point is 00:08:55 I feel like Ryan Graves was signed specifically to play with Chris LaTang. Now, as we know, Mike Sullivan loves to put lines and pairings in a blender. So that can be completely thrown out the window come the third week of the season. Agreed. I would start him with Pedersen as well. You know, sweet on sweet action, of course, and with how Pedersen is one of the most underrated defensemen

Starting point is 00:09:16 in the league, he can really cover for, if Carlson makes a mistake in his own zone, Pedersen can be like that guy that can really help him out. And with his underlines as good as they are, it just seems like a perfect fit, in my opinion. And with Graves, I think they definitely do see him as that doom and replacement. again, I can see a situation where they're going to flip-flop. I would love for Pedersen to also be up with Latangue because he's ready for those minutes.

Starting point is 00:09:40 And I don't think Graves is a true top-pearing guy. But I do think they see him as that guy, as someone who can replace Brian Dumont, especially in the defensive zone. I mean, he is an upgrade over Dumont, even though the contract is pretty big. But I'm just going off their thinking, Pat. Like, I think they think Graves can replace Dumlin, and I think they want Pedersen with Carlson, even though, you know, in a perfect world, I would probably flip-flop them, but I think they're probably going to do that during the season anyway. But that wraps up the second segment.

Starting point is 00:10:06 Coming up right after this, we're going to discuss how Mike Sullivan is super excited about getting Carlson, especially after how the Penguins did not get Jacob Chikrin, excuse me, at this pastures trade deadline. Thank you for that, Juan Hexol. But hey, if they had done that, I don't think Eric Carlson would be a member of the Penguins right now. But before we discussed that, we got to get into bird dogs. They make you look ridiculously good. and they are shorts that are designed to fit

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Starting point is 00:11:19 We're back here on this episode of the Lockdown Penguins podcast. I am Hunter Hodes. That is Patrick Damp. So obviously everyone is super excited about the Eric Carlson situation, but none more. than Penguins head coach Mike Sullivan because he has never had to really deal with this kind of situation for as long as he has been head coach of this team. As I teased, he wanted Jacob Trickren at the trade deadline. Juan Hexel did not want to get out of the future, so he goes to the senators for Magic Beans.

Starting point is 00:11:46 But he gets an even better prize when Kyle Dubis acquired Eric Carlson on Sunday. And, you know, he said it best to Josh Yoey when he said, we feel like we have two number one defensemen. he's going to bring an element that we were to our transition game, excuse me, where we were already pretty good, but it's just going to improve it. And that's also an element that we really haven't discussed a lot on the show. His ability, Carlson, that is, to break the puck out of the defensive zone, bring it up the ice, unlike almost anyone else in the NHL, is second to none.

Starting point is 00:12:22 And the penguins are going to love that aspect. If you dive into the film, even when you watch Sharks games, this past season, the way that he was a one-man wrecking crew with breaking the puck out of his own end. And the sharks were one of the worst defensive teams in the league and also one of the worst teams in the league as a whole. The way that he was able to do that while also having players draped all over him was unbelievable. And that is going to be a huge asset to the Penguins this upcoming season. Yeah, for some of our listeners who may be of the, let's say, elder statesman variety. and you can come at me all you want for this comparison,

Starting point is 00:13:01 but feel free I'm standing behind it. One name, Paul Coffey. Go watch Paul Coffey in the 80s and 90s. That guy would pick the puck up behind his own net, and before you know it, it was in the offensive zone. And Eric Carlson is incredibly capable of doing the same things. A little different game these days. Defensemen are a little bit better, a little bit more mobile.

Starting point is 00:13:25 systems are a little bit more malleable for guys to cover for that and encounter that. But again, he is a guy who when you are stuck in the D zone, rather than look for that perfect pass or go right to the system, he can pick the puck up, lug it out, and just get it out of danger. It might not lead to a scoring chance. It might not lead to offense, but it gets you out of danger when you could be pinned in your end for a bit. The other thing about Carlson and Sullivan's excitement for it brings me back to the first thing I was ever excited about about Mike Sullivan when he got the job back in 2016.

Starting point is 00:14:00 I remember his opening presser. He basically said, we want to be a great team. We want to run a good system, but we don't want to take the sticks out of our best players' hands. And he said that again in a similar way about Carlson, basically saying, it's been my experience that players like this require a great deal of latitudes so they can act on their instincts. That That's him saying, listen, we're going to have a system in place. We're going to have structure. But when Eric Carlson is on the ice and has the puck on his stick, we are not going to limit it. And that's how you maximize a player like Eric Carlson.

Starting point is 00:14:39 Right. And I love that you brought up the Paul Coffee quote because it's funny. When this trade was going down, I was texting my mom. And of course, she's the person who got me into this. And her favorite penguin player of all time is Paul Coffey. I will put that out here on the show. She absolutely loves him. And I told her, like, this is basically a modern-day version of Paul Coffey.

Starting point is 00:14:59 And the smile on her face, like, I could just see it through the text. She was like, okay, I'm going to have fun with that. She doesn't follow hockey as much as she used to. But when I brought that up, she was like, okay, now we're cooking here, Hunter. But even outside of that, you know, Carlson's defensive liabilities, I guess if you want to call it that, have been well documented, especially this past season. He did a lot for the sharks. He basically was the shark's offense.

Starting point is 00:15:23 and when you look at the underlines, the sharks, they played like a playoff team when he was on the ice. It was just that when he was off the ice, they were so freaking bad, which contributed them to having one of the worst records in the NHL.

Starting point is 00:15:39 Which is hilarious because he comes to a team in the penguins that had a similar problem of when the top two lines were on the ice, they were almost a contender when the bottom six forwards were on the ice. they were a basement dwelling team. So it's kind of like the Spider-Man meme pointing at each other. Because it's like, oh, wait, when I was around, my team was great.

Starting point is 00:16:02 When we were around our team was great. Should we join forces? And one of the best parts about that and just in general was when Mike Sullivan had this interview with Josh Yowie this week. It was a really good interview. If you're not, subscribe to the athletic, definitely check it out. And he was asked about, you know, this is the defensive liabilities and stuff. And he said it best, if you have the puck most of the time, you can get out of your own zone.

Starting point is 00:16:23 You don't really have to defend much. And it's like, wow, that is a noble concept. And if you do have to defend at times, you have a partner such as in Marcus Pedersen who can help you out. And again, Sullivan hit the nail on the head there. You have the puck along, especially in the offensive zone, you're really not going to have to defend that much. And sure, I'm sure Sullivan will work with Carlson to fix some aspects of his defensive

Starting point is 00:16:47 game. He's not going to basically, what's the word I'm looking for here? They're not going to have to rebuild them. They're not going to have to rebuild them. They're going to do some tweaks. They're going to upgrade some things, and they're going to do some things here on the margins to fit him into a Mike Sullivan system.

Starting point is 00:17:06 But this is akin to getting a car with a couple of dinks and a couple of dents in it, and now you just got to buff him out. Because he is like a lot of people that Kyle Dubas has gone after this offseason, Taylor made to play in a Mike Sucson. Sullivan system. Yes. And again, I'm still searching for that word, Pat.

Starting point is 00:17:26 I'm sure it's going to come to me probably after we finish the recording. I guess he's not going to, oh, there it is. He's not going to have to sacrifice as much in the defensive zone for the offensive zone like he did with the sharks. He can play a little more defensively this upcoming season where he's not going to finish in the first presentile for five on five defense.

Starting point is 00:17:43 That's just how it's going to be in my own system. So I would expect those numbers to go up because he's not going to feel pressure to have to do everything. like he did for the Sharks because he was their main driver of offense. I mean, sure, you had Tim O'Meyer there before he got traded. You have Tomas Hurtle. Logan Kuture is still not bad. You have a couple other players.

Starting point is 00:18:02 Kevin LeBank, I know, is still there too. But it was Carlson and really not that much else. And that's why he sacrificed so much of his defensive game and why he wasn't good in his own zone. With that being changed now on a better team, with a better structure, he doesn't have to be the guy for the Penguins. I think his defensive metrics are going to improve a lot this year. absolutely agree and i really have a time to edit that i just want to give a shout out and a fun

Starting point is 00:18:28 story for your mom here about paul coffee that i think you will enjoy our listeners will enjoy so back in the 2000s my dad played in a like charity game it was one of those like pros versus joes and pros and joes kind of game and paul coffee was on his team and coffee looks at him and goes jim i start the shift as a defenseman but i ended as a left winger and he goes, I kid you not. First shift, he picks the puck up behind the net, and I was the only defenseman left on my team. That's too good.

Starting point is 00:19:04 I mean, that's an incredible story. I mean, heck, I still, she'll still always tell me the story how she went to, was one of the malls that she got to finally meet him because she knew he was going to be there. She goes, oh my God, I have to go, because she was a teenager at the time. And when she got a picture, she just,

Starting point is 00:19:18 she lived it up. That's what I'll say to that. You got to love that. You got to love that. No, yeah, it was her favorite player. It'll always be her favorite player. Whenever he comes to town for games and they show him on the TV, the fan girl here just comes out.

Starting point is 00:19:31 That's just how my mom is now. That would do it for this second segment. Coming up right after this, Pine and I are introducing a new weekly segment to the show. It's not going to officially start until the regular season starts, but we're going to debut it right now because there is someone who is going to get the, well, weekly award, I guess is what you want to say.

Starting point is 00:19:50 That's a little bit of a tease, and that's coming up. right after this. Welcome back to the Locked-on Penguins podcast. I am one of the co-host, Patrick Damp, alongside, as always, Hunter Hodes. And we're debuting a new recurring segment that we're going to do this upcoming season. And it's something we're not going to do until the regular season begins because we're in the dog days of summer right now. But we figured, you know what? Pretty big week in Penguinsland.

Starting point is 00:20:18 So we're going to, we're going to debut this today. So what we're going to do, we're going to go back to the glory days, quote unquote, the Pittsburgh Penguins when they won the Stanley Cup in 2016. And if you remember after every win, they handed out what they had dubbed the Warrior Helmet. So this season, we are introducing Warrior Helmet Wednesdays, and Hunter and I will pick a player, a coach, whomever we feel like picking, and they will get our Warrior Helmet as that week's MVP. and Hunter, I think both you and I have the same nominee for Warrior Helmet Wednesday's debut.

Starting point is 00:20:56 I think this one is too easy because A, there's no games being played right now, and B, the only move that was made this past week was by the present hockey operations and the new general manager, I may add, Kyle Dubus for acquiring Eric Carlson, while not giving up much in return. As you said earlier this week, all of your bad players for our good player. that's exactly what happened with this deal. I honestly feel like you could probably not do this deal in NHL 23 with just the sharks if you tried. Now the Canadians come in and not opposite this different story.

Starting point is 00:21:29 I like what the Canadians did. But with how Dubis just honestly had highway robbery from the sharks, the only big asset he gave up was the first round pick. And I could actually argue that the first round pick was given up to take on the contracts of Mikhail Granlin and Yonruder, especially the Grandin contract because the Penguins didn't even have to. retain on that deal. So Kyle Dubus gets the warrior helmet for this on for pulling off that insane fleecing, I think, especially of the sharks. Not the Canadians much because I do, again, the Canadians did a good job on their end, but for the sharks, just fleece my career there.

Starting point is 00:22:06 Yeah. You know, I will say though, like I hinted out on Monday, looking back at this deal and kind of thinking more of it, I do think this felt like one of those ones where there really wasn't a loser. Like I think the sharks quote unquote lose it just because they kind of got the least they At the end of day they got they didn't want to retain money that makes the owner happy and it sets them up to have To have financial flexibility years down the line. Yeah. They got what they want in quotation marks. And looking back on it too, moving Carlson's deal was going to be hard no matter what just because of how much he made where the cap space is this summer.

Starting point is 00:22:46 But at the same time, yeah, I mean, the warrior helmet goes to Kyle Dubus because there's also one other thing he did this past week that just now it looks like an absolute stroke of genius. He hired himself as general manager. I mean, General, president of hockey operations, Kyle Dubus is hired. General manager Kyle Dubus went out and traded for Eric Carlson. So that's a darn good hire there, Mr. President. So, yeah, I mean, just how can. you not be happy with this? You know, I'm going to write about it this Friday on KDKA for Penguins' perspectives

Starting point is 00:23:21 to kind of put it in a little bit different of a perspective, so to speak. But in just a couple of months, Kyle Dubus has taken this team from stale to maybe a contender depending on what they do. So toss that sticker on the helmet because Kyle Dubus, you are the first. you are the first warrior helmet Wednesday winner of the locked on bang with podcast. If there's anything else, I mean, this is his team now. He has put his stamp on it. He has taken out a lot of the players that Ron Hextall brought in and they are now gone.

Starting point is 00:24:01 And again, he has stamped his name and saying, this is how I want to do business. And this is my team. Yeah, we talked about this off air. Like that trade was basically him weeping out. almost the entire Ron Hextall era of Fankton. Except for him. But again, like, he's going to be such a marginal player at this point because of the moves made. Like, of all the guys that have stuck on the margins, like, I can live with Jeff Carter,

Starting point is 00:24:31 but that never happens in the national hockey league. You never see a GM come in and basically, and do it without tanking to where you just move out the entire previous regime. and give a team a facelift. So again, Warrior Helmet to Dubus, absolutely incredible week. And man, if there was ever any doubt before, there is none now. This is a Kyle Dubus team. Best of the year, as Jason Zucker said last year. I wish we could coin that, but that is Jason Zucker's.

Starting point is 00:25:04 But it would do it at least for this one. Best of the year as Kyle Dubus wins the first warrior helmet for each Wednesday. Again, we will bring this back when the season. and starts in October. It's going to be a fun little segment. Heck, maybe some of the equipment people could get it. Taglionetti, someone like that. If, you know, maybe he gives another stick to Cindy Crosby,

Starting point is 00:25:23 then he scores a goal right after as what happened a couple years ago. I believe that was against the flyers, if I'm not mistaken, that was a lot of fun. So this can go to truly anyone out there. Maybe whoever is stepping in for Andy Sossier has a big challenge review. And, you know, it saves a game. It could be, you know what? It could be the fans of PPG Paints Arena.

Starting point is 00:25:46 You have yourselves a big night, have a lot of fun, make it look a good atmosphere. Maybe I'll toss 17,000 warrior helmets at you. That'll be perfect, too. And we're really excited to debut this. Well, we debut this segment today, but we're really excited to dive into this segment once the season starts. I believe that would do it for this Wednesday edition of the Locked on Penguins podcast. Pat and I will be back with another episode for you all on Friday. We'll discuss Eric Carlson's comments to the media and so much more when it comes to this team.

Starting point is 00:26:14 and thank you all so much for listening to watching this episode, especially this week. The podcast is number three in the country on Apple Podcasts right now. You all are absolutely insane. The YouTube, well, the show on YouTube, I should say, has gained over 150 new subscribers in the last few days. You all are incredible.

Starting point is 00:26:34 Thank you so much for continuing to support the show. And for those that are new, welcome. We just want to bring you all the best pens coverage that we can. But again, thank you all so much. for listening slash watching this one. Hope you have a great rest of your Wednesday and a great Thursday. We'll talk with you all again on Friday.

Locked On Penguins - Daily Podcast On The Pittsburgh Penguins - Top Pairing Erik Karlsson - who plays more minutes?

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