Locked On Penguins - Daily Podcast On The Pittsburgh Penguins - What exactly is Jim Rutherford's plan?

Episode Date: September 25, 2020

The Patric Hornqvist deal became official today and Hunter brings on Cam Easton (NotThatFehr) from Pittsburgh Penguins twitter onto the show again to break it down with him and get his thoughts on the deal. They talk about how great of a player Patric Hornqvist was and how even though it made sense to move him, it's still going to sting for quite awhile. They also breakdown the logjam on the left side of their defense as they have too many layers there now. Who's on their way out? Would GMJR dare trade Brian Dumoulin and make the team even worse? Both are questions they try to answer, and they also look at what Matheson and Sceviour will bring to the team, especially Matheson's ability to lead the breakout and gain the offensive zone. Finally, they close with what's coming next and if this is going to get worse for the Penguins. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello, welcome to this Thursday evening episode of Lockdown Penguins podcast. I'm your host, Hunter Hodes. Follow me on Twitter at Hunter Hodes. Follow the show's Twitter at L.O. underscore Penguins. Today is a pretty sad day. If you're a Penguins fan, of course, as Patron Quess has officially been traded to the Florida Panthers, in exchange for Mike Matheson and Colton Civior. I just totally butchered his name the first time, but I got it the second time, so that's

what matters. But joining us, we have another guest today. He's been on this podcast many times, but I figured we could break. him on to break down the trade is Cameron Easton from Penguins Twitter. Cam, how are you doing today, man? Especially after the news when the trade broke. I wouldn't say disbelief because we've been waiting a little bit for this trade to go through. But it's a sad day for many Penguins fans.

There's a lot to discuss. I mean, we'll break the trade down. We'll dive into it. Yeah, absolutely. And I do want to say first, I'll let you say something too. Going back, I know I've been cheering for this team for over 15 years before the Sydney Crosby days. Patrick Hornquist, I can safely say it was one of my five to ten favorite penguins of all time, you know, as long as I've been a fan. Just absolutely love him as a player, absolutely love him on the ice, off the ice.

You know, when that trade happened when they got him for James Neal, that was the big, the first big trade where, you know, change was coming for the penguins. And it was like a fresh new wave of players coming in. And since day one, he was just awesome night in and night out. It was hard to watch that team during that 2014-15 season because, of course, Chris LaTan got hurt. And they weren't really going to go anywhere that year anyway. But to see how Patrick was played in that series against the Rangers and all season long, you just knew that he was going to be a menace each season that he was here. And boy, did he prove it season in and season now, you know,

the game winner against Washington and game. for in 2016, won them the Stanley Cup in 2017 against the National Predators. Just what a warrior. I'm just, I'm going to miss him a lot. Yeah, that trade was the benchmark of the new regime in Pittsburgh with Jim Rutherford. And, you know, a lot of people are looking at Jim Rutherford differently today than they were not or back then. But, you know, and you point back to that 2014-15 with, you know,

We had Mike Johnson that head coach, and, you know, Patrick Cornquist was the bright spot of that team, that team, you know. And especially with them losing against the Rangers that series, he was the bright spot. And, you know, having that game winning goal against Nashville in the 2017 Stanley Cup final, you know, he will never have to buy another drink for himself in Pittsburgh again. Exactly. He comes back to Pittsburgh again. Everyone will buy him his drinks. And that was a typical Patrick Hornquist goal, too. Shot goes wide of the net.

He's right in his office in front of the net and just Banks in and Off Rina. You know, he did that so many times throughout his career, just being a menace in front of the net. You know, I think all the metropolitan teams and other fan bases are happy that Winquist is gone just because how he would just get under the other goalie skin and just, I guess, a lot of the fans of skin, just because of how he was in front of the net. And, you know, Father Time, I think, was catching up for him. I guess we can just get into the trade now. I mean, I get trading Hornquist. I mean, despite loving him and on the ice and off the ice, like trading him actually makes sense.

You know, he makes five and, like almost five and a half million against the salary cap. He's signed for a lot more years. He's in his 30s now. His body is starting to break down a little bit. I know he had the last good season, but still, concussion issues these last couple years. I get it. But the thing with it, though, Cam, is like,

you're breaking even on the cap. hell you're adding salary, you're bringing in a guy with a sample size of just, I guess, okay numbers, and then a bottom six forward who really is not the good defensively. It's kind of just an Evan Rodriguez replacement, I guess. It's just, I would have honestly preferred draft picks in just the whole cap space than Mike Matheson and Colton Severe. What do you think? Yeah, you know, I think I had in my mind that I was fine with a Hornquist trade if it moved on

from that salary. That salary was, you know, a lot for the penguins, especially with his age. And, you know, the injuries were catching up to him. I mean, if you remember, he had just, even the freak injury where in warmups, he wasn't wearing the helmet and he took a puck to the head. It was just, he had so many injuries, you know, during his time and with the penguins, but that's, that's the cost of being in the front of the net, you know, and getting those dirty goals. And that penguin's power play is going to miss that, too. It's going to be interesting how they move on from Ornquist and how they structure the power play.

But again, they don't have Mark Recky, so he's not in charge of that anymore. Thank goodness there. But, you know, and I don't necessarily have an issue with Matheson, but that contract is probably the thing many people are looking at and kind of not liking about this trade. Yeah, it's just too many years. And, I mean, I'm kind of coming down on the term part

just because, Cam, this team is going to suck. in six years when that contract is expired. Yeah, we just got to, we got to, you know, accept it. I mean, that's what's going to happen. And I mean, that's what happens with every franchise when you move on from players and, like, the caliber of Sydney Crosby and, you know, Malkin. I mean, look at what happened when, you know,

and Yager, you know, when they had to move on from that. Yeah, they stunk for a bit. I mean, Yager was there longer than Lemieux just because Lemieux was just battling, you know, just a bunch of injuries. and his back and all that. So, I mean, because I think Yager was there well past 1999, and he was traded, I think, in the early 2000s.

Yep, to the caps. Yeah, and the, and the, that was, I mostly blamed the ownership on that one just because they really couldn't even pay the lease on Mellon Arena, I don't think. But that's a discussion for another day. But, yeah, I mean, your point about the power play is valid. I think they probably will just slide Jake Gensel up to that spot. He's really good in front of the net,

but, I mean, obviously it's not to the level of Petrol Hornquist and now with getting Matheson, you have five left-handed defenseman, Cam. You have Brian Dumlin on the top pairing. God, if you trade Brian Dumlin, there will be serious problems. I'm going to get to that point coming up in a second. Marcus Pedersen wouldn't do that either. Usuricla just signed for two years. You're going to pay him a million to sit in the press box every night.

Don't really understand that. You have P.O. Joseph, who is getting close to NHL. already. Now you have, of course, Matheson. And then, you know, we have our favorite whipping boy cam. of course, that's Jack Johnson. I really think this trade only makes sense if you deal Jack Johnson, but Jim Rutherford is probably going to just continue to say that he likes him

and that he's not going to admit that he made a mistake. And they're probably just going to deal Marcus Pedersen and just piss everyone off in the process again. You know, it almost seems like Jim Rutherford is making deals like Matheson, and hopefully he doesn't trade Dumlin or Pedersen. but, you know, as recent events have showed, I wouldn't doubt it at this point. And we can't take it off the table. But, yeah, I think Jim Rutherford is going to die on the hill with, you know,

saying that Jim Rutherford, Jack Johnson is a good defenseman when he's not. And the contract situation as well, it's a mess. And everyone would hope Jack Johnson, is gone. Heck, we've been saying it's the past couple of seasons. But now is the time to do it. And I'm hoping Matheson is just putting a Band-Aid on that and just saying, okay, we can, Jim Brother first saying, okay, we can move on from Jack Johnson. And it's not like a mess that it's already been, but, you know. Exactly. I would love to see Pierre Oliver Joseph, you know, come up. Same with, and I know it's forward, but same pooling from, you know, the recent draft.

I think the penguins are trying to get a little bit younger, you know, as these trades have shown, get some new blood in the locker room, but it's starting to look like a mess to me. Yeah, I love how Jim Rutherford's like, yeah, we're trying to get younger. We're trying to retool or transition the team on the fly. It's like, yeah, kind of transitioning the team in the opposite direction of, I think, what everyone else wants to happen in the Penguins fan base. And yeah, man, I'm just going to touch on this before we get to the next segment. If they somehow trade Brian Dumlin, and that would be a total peak Jim Rutherford move,

just because of how angry he is appears with the team right now, I would be at the point where I think I would honestly not watch half of the games next season. I'm not just going to sit here and watch him just go full Pittsburgh Pirates on this franchise. I've had that happen. I used to root for the pilots way back then. Please don't go there. Yeah, I stopped doing that, especially when the Nationals came in. And, you know, as the Nationals got better and better, they actually had the ownership to pay the players.

You know, it just got really, really good. But, I mean, I'm just, I'm not going to sit here and watch that, man. You can't trade Brian Neumel. And that would be total awful move. And the same would be with Marcus Pedersen. Like, you're really going to go into next season with Matheson and Johnson as your second and third pairings on the left side? I mean, what the hell are we doing? here. That would just make absolutely

no sense to me, man. Well, and it shows that these trades are just putting Band-Aids over you know, pre-existing trades that transpired. He's throwing shit at the wall. And he's hoping it works. Well, yeah. I mean, it's like you traded Daniel Daniel Sprong for Pedersen. It's like,

okay, you fixed that. And I think that, and that was a solid trade. And, but now you're going to possibly make it worse with maybe an upcoming trade with you know, some team. And trying justify Jack Johnson as a NHL defenseman when it's not.

Yeah, it's just, it's not going to go right now for Jim Rutherford, that's for sure. But I can. Before we do get to the next segment, we can touch on rockouto.com a little bit because, you know, that's one big positive thing going in our lives right now. It's a family business that serves auto park customers online for 20 years. You go to rockado.com a shop for auto and body parts and 100 manufacturers. The catalog is unique and remarkably easy to do.

navigate. You can quickly see all the parts available for your vehicle and use the brands, specifications and prices you prefer. Best of all, prices at rockadootto.com are always reliable and the same for professionals and do it yourselves. You can go to rockout.com right now and see all the parts available for your car truck, and you can write locked on in their how did you hear about us box so they know we sent you. Amazing selection and reliable low the prices, all the parts of your car, whatever need that is rock auto.com. Okay, Cam, so I was like kind of doing a little bit of research on Mike Mathis and I had, um, Jeff from Penn's blog on yesterday, who does a great job running that site.

You had a lot of really good stats looking at Mike Matheson. And, you know, some of the analytics and the underlying numbers, it's deceiving a little bit. You know, because you look at some of it, like, charts and, you know, is really good at entering the zone. It's like possession entries per 60 minutes ranks in the 93rd percentile. Possession entry percentage ranks in the 92nd percentile. Entry defense is breakups per 60s and the 84th percentile. shot contributions, 74th percentile, shots per 60, 86 percentile. So he gets the puck to the net.

He can get the puck in the zone, which is two things that Jack Johnson can't do. So if you're moving Jack Johnson, it makes a lot of sense to have Mathis and on your third pairing, even though his salary is a bit too high. But, you know, he's even straight defense in his defensive zone. It's just not that good. And I was looking at this chart today, sports logics, basically, their data. his turnover rate out of 100 out of 200 qualified defensemen

his turnover rate 17.3% per game that's 187th out of 200 defensemen that are that they track so yeah so him in the defensive zone is going to be a treat to watch even though he comes in the offensive zone

with the puck a lot and he can get to the puck to the net a lot well and it's interesting I think we look back at some of these trades that as of recently, it seems like Jim Rutherford kind of ignores the statistic side of the player. And that's weird, considering they have an analytic gruel in their front office. Right. You know, and even the Penguins' Twitter was, you know, did a little spotlight on that a couple days ago.

But it's always in the news conferences like today. Well, he has a nice shot, so. But it's, you know. But, I don't know. It's, you know, I was looking, it was funny. I was looking at some YouTube highlights of Matheson today. And the YouTube comments were, oh, he's just basically a bottom forward. Because all his goals kind of reminded me of Justin Schultz with how his zone entry was.

And I think the coaching staff was lenient with Schultz in his time here. feel like they'd do the same with Matheson and his own entries and his offensive side of the game. Yeah, I think so, too. There was a, I think, a YouTube clip that King Clarki on Penguins were sent me yesterday, and he was basically playing as a forward, stole the puck and then had an assist in overtime and scored. This was, I think, from three to four years ago, and I think he was playing forward in that game, and it was actually pretty funny to watch. I'm going to have to send you that clip.

Well, yeah, no, I've seen that, and Yager was so tired. Yager was still playing with the Panthers. and he was so tired and yeah it was just gone a little you know crazy you know rampage Matheson was and made that beautiful assist but yeah that's his offensive side of the game but he's a defenseman so yeah we just have to hope that he can be okay in his defensive zone I mean like I said like you're looking at the underlying numbers can get the puck into the offensive zone very very nicely can break out the puck from the defensive zone nicely gets a lot of shots on net.

He scores a lot more than some other defensemen on this team have, which is, I guess, I mean, that's not bad, but still, you know, we need him to be better than Justin Schultz and Jack Johnson on the third pairing. I don't think that's too much task for, especially after they vomited it all over themselves in the series against Montreal. But, you know, we'll see, I guess at this point. But, Cam, there was a, I tweeted out before when we started recording. There's a listener question from Alan T. Yoder.

I wanted to get your thoughts on this. It was like a kind of a two-part question. He's like, do you think the forward coming from Florida, of course, that's Colton Zier could be used in another deal as a package deal in the New Year Future with someone like Jack Johnson? Probably not, I wouldn't think, because they just got him and he only has one year left on his contract with for like a million. And, you know, looking at his, I was looking at just his basic stats.

He had played 69 games last season, so very nice. Six goals, 16 points. He's been a 11 goal score, a couple of times. times in his career. He's basically just a bottom six forward, but, you know, what do you think about that? Do you think they could potentially float him? Well, and they also mentioned he's a good penalty killer as well, and I think that's good for a penalty kill. But you do have to look at the replacement side of, you know, the void there from Patrick Hornquist. And the third line has been interesting ever since the departure of Nick Benito, the HPK line, you know, but, and they've been

trying to work on that for the past couple of seasons. It just hasn't transpired. And, you know, they thankfully assigned Jared McCann. And going forward, we'd think he'd probably be the third line center. But, you know, going off of, would he be part of another deal? I mean, you can't say for sure because, I mean, you look back at Nick Spalling and how Nick Spalling was, or the original Hornquist deal from James Neal. And we used them later for, Phil Kessel. That's right. You're right.

You never know. But I do think that I think the coaching staff in the front office likes this guy and they'll probably slot him in in the third line. I think so too. Yeah, his other question was

would he be a fit on the third line with Jared McCann? Also, Alan, I do not believe they played together on a line in the Panthers. I'm going to have to double check that, though. But yeah, I think maybe he can play with McCann, but

honestly, that's probably where they're going to lot of I don't really think they're going to put I don't think you want to break up the fourth line either I think that

fourth line was one of the better things about the Penguins team last season yeah I absolutely that line was just shut down they basically

just shut down any line that came into the offensive zone they were that good I really don't think you're going to break up that line

and besides Jared McCann needs new linemates anyway I mean he's going to have a brand new third line this year anyway because

he had Patrick Marlow with him who was just a corpse when he came back from the return from the return to play

and then Patrick Hornquist was on that line and it was just a very, very weird. Yeah, it just never got together. And, you know, we saw the rumors all this offseason about Jared McCann possibly being traded. And to have the front office believe in Jared McCann says a lot as in being a possibly a third line center,

it's a big step because that's something the penguins have desperately needed. And I like McCann. I think he's a good player, but they really need to start looking at the wings on the third line. And I think they address one part of it. Yeah, exactly. I mean, might as well just try

Severe with McCann. Just why not at this point? Yeah, I mean, and I do agree. They've been trying to find that third line center ever since Nick Benito left. It looks like Jared McCann will be that guy because he signed that extension. God forbid they somehow trade him. But, you know, I was looking at Severe's

you know, just looking at his data a little bit. I mean, his goals for percentage, expected goals for 70%, expected goals against 58%. His goals per 60 was pretty bad, though, 24%. That's a big yikes shooting that wasn't really that good. PK, though, was about 50%, which I like. But, I mean, it's his projected like wins above replacement, you know, only about 0.7. This is all from evolving hockey and all that.

So, I mean, it doesn't really move the needle much, but I think, like we both said on a third line, I guess it's fine. He doesn't really make much against the cap. We'll see how he is during the season. Well, I'm hoping he turns into like how Brandon Tannit was in last off season. I mean, most fans basically because of the contract and the like the term, everyone was just, you know, but he played really good for the Penguins this season. I thought on that fourth line and hopefully, you know, we get the same results in this season. Yeah, that would be nice. And I don't think he's going to be, you know, as good defensively as Tannib is.

You know, Tana's defensive. Correct, yeah. I mean, he's elite at suppression shots and C.B.R. is not. So don't think you're going to get that from C.B. But I think he could maybe outproduce him offensively. You know, I was looking at some of C.B.I.R.'s offensive stats. And they were pretty similar, I think, to Brayden and Tanniv. So I think he may have him beat there.

Looking ahead now, man, this is going to get pretty interesting. You know, we have the Matt Murray trade that's still to come. Don't want to know what you're going to get back in that. Now you have to move someone from the defense. God willing, it's Jack Johnson. You can send him to the Mariana Trench because he really doesn't belong on another NHL roster, let alone the Penguins roster. What else you got?

I mean, they want to go out into free agency and do something. Hard pass, please. I mean, I really don't trust Jim Rutherford. Imagine if he still goes after Chris Tannen. I will. That will be interesting. Not now. Not on this day of grieving.

I cannot. Five years, $25 million, baby. Let's do it. Let's just keep paying all these mediocre old defensemen, just all the money in the world. Because when has that worked out for you? So just to be a total gym for a thing to do, though. But yeah, I was reading The Athletic today.

And Joshua and Rob were basically saying, like, yeah, there's more trades coming. he's not close to done. But, I mean, it's just hard to feel good about the direction of his team right now. I used to be so high on Jim Rutherford. What a 180 that has been. I mean, wow. I didn't really see the signs of it turning this bad, but, you know, I'm eating a lot of crow on that right now.

And if he doesn't turn it around quickly, you know, this, this Crawley-Malkingera is going to be closed as soon as basically this next season, I think. Yeah, I mean, this, I feel this offseason is basically the last real setup for this window for Crosby and Malkin and even Lattain. So, you know, you would hope Rutherford kind of make some better deals than he has been. And I said it on Twitter, I really don't know what his plan is. I mean, all of these moves are kind of out of left field, and nobody can really predict what's next. And, you know, you could easily say Murray's going to be traded, and one would think he's going to be traded. But he could come out of left field and say, you know, or trade jari for all we know. God help us all if they do that.

Right. I mean, that's just kind of how Jim Rutherford has acted these past couple of seasons. and it's troubling, but I still, as a Penguins fan, have faith in Jim Rutherford, you know, because he did set up those two back-to-back cups. I can't keep, you know, living in the past, and I still got to, you know, we all do. We still got to realize, you know, this team hasn't been up to par of these past couple seasons. And, you know, it was funny. I was just, I was talking to my friend who's a Minnesota wild fan, and we were arguing over the past couple of trades.

And he's like, why are you mad? You know, you got your, your two cups. And I sat there and I paused. I'm like, but if you had Crosby and Malkin, wouldn't you want to win as many cups as you wanted to with that talent? And he was like, well, yeah, I mean, you're not wrong. So I think a lot of people around the league are tired of the Penguins losing. Penguins losing or penguins winning? Or winning, yeah.

I was confused on that one, but yeah. Yeah, tired of winning. Well, I mean, they have been losing. Let's be real. Yeah, that's true. But yeah, but yeah, they're tired of them winning, and they want to see this window close. Oh, absolutely.

But, you know, this is it. You know? This really is it. It's been really, really, really weird as, you know, as we're getting older, you know, time is, time is of the essence now. It's just shrinking shorter and shorter and shorter. And to your point, Ken, I just don't really know if I have any faith in Jim Rutherford anymore. I know you're going to have.

It's tough. Yeah. I know you're going to have all the usual shills out there, you know, that just love to shell for Jim Rutherford on Twitter and all that. Well, you know, how can you not trust him? He's done all this for the franchise. Oh, my God. He's still bum.

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, well, you know what? Look at the moves that he's made ever since that 2017 cup. And would you, would you trust him? Like, I mean, I get it. You know, some people are in the media, you know, they're not going to dump on the general manager

because, just for obvious reasons. But, you know, you've got to look at this, logically. He's been bad for the last few years now. It's not getting... We're approaching five years since the 2016 cup. And if you really think about it, the moves before the 2016 cup

is what set up the 2017 cup because the team didn't really change. Yeah, I mean, he had been what, Ron Hainesie and... Right. There were tiny moves. But thinking about that, I mean, it's been almost five years. And you've got to be realistic.

And five years is a long time in the NHL. And to have the talent that the Penguins do, it's kind of inexcusable not to be... even in the going past the qualifiers. Yeah, especially against a team like the Canadians. We all know that's unacceptable, but also, you know, it is 2020. It's been a very weird year for a lot of reasons. So, you know, I almost like just almost expected them to lose because it is 2020.

But yeah, man, I'm just, I'm just more and more nervous now for Jim Rutherford's next moves just because of how unpredictable and he is and how he's just basically a wild card. And yeah, it's a lot of times it's just throwing shit at the fan and hoping it works. And, man, I'm just, I'm nervous now. We're almost to the end of the Stanley Cup final now. Free agency is two weeks away from tomorrow. That's Friday. So we're getting down to crunch time now.

There's going to be a lot of moves coming for a lot of teams, including the Penguins. And it's going to be a wild ride. But, Cam, unless you have anything else, I think we're going to call this an episode. Well, I mean, I haven't been. with you to talk about the cap and end deal but i mean that's just that that was so unexpected to trade that first round pick and it bugs me but they're going to try to get it back in the mat murray deal i've been reading reports that they're trying to get a first back for murray all it takes is one team but you're probably looking at i've said it on the podcast already if a couple of people

i haven't heard it stack around picking a prospect i think that's probably your best bet at this point for him but if you can get a team to trade a first for him obviously you take it just because you know that's basically a home run acquisition. Hey, at this point, I think Jim Rutherford thinks a third rounder is a beautiful asset, but who knows? I just, what a year. That's basically, you know, that sigh that you just had,

that sums up Jim Rutherford's tenure the last three years. I think we're going to call the episode on that. Cam, thank you so much for coming on to break down this trade with me. I really appreciate it, and we'll definitely have you on here at some point during the offseason. It's always a pleasure. you for having it. Yeah, absolutely. And we will have another episode coming for you guys. Tomorrow, we're going to talk about the Stanley Cup file and a whole bunch of other penguin stuff, especially if there's another trade tomorrow, because you never know if Jim Rutherford. He would

probably make a trade every day if he could. So I will talk to you all then.