Locked On Penguins - Daily Podcast On The Pittsburgh Penguins - What was the REAL reason Jim Rutherford resigned?

Episode Date: January 28, 2021

We got some shocking news in Pittsburgh today as Jim Rutherford resigned out of the blue. Hunter dissects the move and gets into David Morehouse's comments as to when Jim made the decision. He also talks about his moves over the years and how the Penguins don't win those back-to-back cups without his vision in 2016 and 2017. After that, Hunter gets into his most recent moves and how a change was still likely needed? Who are some people that would be great candidates for this position? What qualities do they need to have to succeed long term? After that, Hunter gets to some listener feedback from the move to finish up the episode.Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!BetOnline AGThere is only 1 place that has you covered and 1 place we trust. Betonline.ag! Sign up today for a free account at betonline.ag and use that promocode: LOCKEDON for your 50% welcome bonus.Built BarBuilt Bar is a protein bar that tastes like a candy bar. Go to builtbar.com and use promo code “LOCKEDON,” and you’ll get 20% off your next order. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You're Locked-on Penguins, your daily podcast on the Pittsburgh Penguins, part of the Locked-on Podcast Network, your team every day. Hello, everyone, welcome to this Wednesday afternoon edition of the Locked-on Penguins podcast. I'm your host, Hunter Hodes. Follow me on Twitter at Hunter Hodes, follow the shows Twitter at L.O. underscore Penguins. So honestly, going into today, guys, I was just going to do a preview, talk about some more stuff from last night. And then we get the big bomb shell as former Penguins general manager Jim Rutherford has resigned

as the GM of the team citing personal reasons a move that stunned not just the fans of this team but I think the hockey world in general no one saw this coming and the new search for the general manager position will be effective immediately. I will talk about who some people

that I think should be candidates for the position coming up in the next segment but first I just want to touch on Jim Rutherford's tenure here. It obviously wasn't perfect. You know, the last few years, he's kind of lost his way, had gone stale with him. I understood what people were saying when they wanted

him to just retire, you know, cut bait with him just because of the last few playoff exits, the team has just looked bad. Some of the movies that he's made were bad, but, you know, the biggest thing about his tenure, he brought two Stanley Cubs here in 2016 and 2017. That's it. I mean, that basically was his tenure here, even though

he did screw up the last couple of years. I've seen some takes on Twitter. I even put a tweet out about this. I mean, just like, People are being schmucks for the sake of being schmucks. I've seen people say, you know, he is and always will be mediocre. You know, he was garbage anyway. And it's just like, that's not the take that we're looking for here. I mean, give the guy some slack.

He just resigned for personal reasons. That's not what we're going to do here. We're not going to tear him down and be a dick for the sake of being a dick just because he didn't like his moves with the last few years. Like I said, I'm not his biggest fan. I thought some of the moves that he made over the last few years were garbage. Look at the Ryan Reeves trade. The Derrick-Rasar trade obviously didn't work out.

you know, Jamie Alexei trading away, Eric Goodbranson, Jack Johnson, etc., etc., but, I mean, he did have some great moves that were so instrumental in the Penguins winning back-to-back cups. I mean, one of the best moves that he made that is not talked about enough is the first trade he made with the Penguins. I mean, 2014 all season, he's just hired on the job. Ratio is gone. They still have James Neal on the team.

No, I think he literally said at his press conference that James Neal was probably going to be on the team going into next season. Rutherfordford said, the hell with that, moved him to national. for Patrick Hornquist, that ended up being one of his best trades of this tenure, just because of how great Hornquist was, just the fit on the team, how great he was in the locker room, his net front presence, so much more. And that was just the first big move that Rutherford made to retool the Penguins. He did a masterful job of retooling the team during those first few years.

I know they didn't have a good season in 2014-15. They had the whole five defensemen fiasco. You know, that season was also kind of done when Chris LaTang went down. I think with that dirty hit from Shane Done with, like, what, five games remaining in the regular season or something like that. They weren't going to go anywhere with him missing time due to a concussion. So, you know, I kind of chalked that up as a whatever. He also did sign Blake Como that offseason. Steve Downey, when he wasn't being an idiot, scored about, what, 10 goals for the team?

Christian Earhoff, I know it didn't work out, but I thought at the time it was a fine signing. And then you get to the next season, and you also get the Phil Kessel trade. Again, slam dunk. He didn't even really give up much in that trade. He still got Kaspari Kappaninin' back after you traded him. And then you have the Justin Schultz trade. You know, what a revelation he turned out to be. You put him on the third pairing and then he gets second pairing minutes the next year in 2017.

I know his play went down a bit, but you took a chance on him. He gave up a third round pick to get him, and he was outstanding. You also trade Rob Skidari for Trevor Daly. Again, that was an incredible trade. Rob Scudery was just a corpse. Every single night. And then Trevor Daly just really improved the back. down with how fast he was, how great he wasn't moving the puck up the ice.

And also, he was good in the defensive zone as well. I loved watching Trevor Daly in both of those seasons, even though he did have some injury problems. And then you also have the Carl Hagelin trade in exchange for David Perron. And, you know, he just made the team so much faster. Nick Benino trade, obviously, for Brandon Sunderer, the whole HBK line. You promote Matt Murray from the H.L., who eventually takes Mark Andre Fleury's job. And one of the best moves that people don't talk about as well, he kept both goalies going

in 2017. Jim Rutherford could have just been like, hey, you know what? I'm going to trade Flurry for what I can at this point, give Matt Murray the reins. He said, nope, I'm going to keep both goaltenders. And, you know, he's glad he did because they don't win the Stanley Cup in 2017 without Flurry and Murray, both going off in that run. That was another great move by him as well. He also traded for Mark Strite and Ron Hainzy.

I know playing Ron Hainzy on the top pairing was not what they envisioned with him, but they needed that depth in 2017 when the Tang went out earlier in the season with that herniated dish he had to miss the rest of the season. and the playoffs. So in my mind, guys, he's always going to be remembered as the general manager who brought the team to Stanley Cups back to back. I will entertain arguments for him being the best general manager in Penguin's history. I mean, he's easily top to you in my opinion. Craig Patrick, I think is obviously up there too. I mean, I know he inherited Mario, but he drafted Yager, two big deals that led to Cups. I mean, he also hired Badger Bob, Scotty Bowman,

two of the best coaches in this franchise's history, though I think I would put Mike Sullivan over everyone except Badger Bob. So I think it's those two for the best two general managers in Penguin's history. You can give me arguments for either one and I would honestly agree. You know, there's no right or wrong answer. I'd honestly put them at 1A, 1B. But, you know, there will be a time to shit on Jim Rutherford. Yes, he didn't have the greatest moves over the last few years. It could have been time to move on from him. And, you know, it honestly could have maybe was time to move on from him, just because of what it's gone stale a bit and that some of his moves had not been working out. and now moving forward they have a really good chance here to secure the long-term trajectory of this franchise

by hiring a person or a candidate, I should say, is analytically inclined and that can trust the process and see that that will yield the right results. Like I said, I'm going to get to some candidates going on in the next segment. You know, as for reasons as to why this could have happened, I mean, my first thought about this, you know, this was shut down by David Morehouse though at the press conference. My first thought was that is this mental health related? Like, is he sick? Does he have cancer or something that we don't know about?

Is it like for something about the pandemic or something? I don't know. You know, that was just the first thought that came into my head. Just like, is he having mental health issues? I mean, that would be a perfectly logical reason for why someone would have resigned from their job to get their head on straight. But David Morehouse did confirm at the press conference, the Zoom conference, that the health had nothing to do with it. It was just his own decision. He apparently decided last night after the game against the ruins where the Penguins lost in that Moorehouse,

He tried to convince him to stay this morning and Rutherford had already made up his mind. Some other theories that I've seen floated around. This one also popped into my head. Is this potentially part of the Clark Donatelli situation that may drop soon? For those that aren't aware and did not hear about it, Clark Donatelli, he was the former H.L coach of the baby penguins, was accused of some very disturbing sexual harassment allegations. I think earlier in December, about a month and a half ago, the organization's been very silent on it. A lot of the media has been very silent on it as well. Could this have been

in advance to something about that coming out? I don't know. You know, we really haven't seen much of it come out from the organization. I don't really think the organization has really talked about it. We're going to see you soon if more details come out about that. But that was also one that I and a lot of other people were thinking of. But then there's this really good theory from Matt Gaka. He used to cover the Penguins for D.K. Pittsburgh Sports. So he'll still work with him at City of Champions Sports for Fanside. I'm a great follow by. the way for all Penn's related stuff. This was his theory.

Rutherford won an extension. Penn told him he wanted to see how the season played out. He felt insulted and told them he was done. Honestly, that seems like one of the most likely scenarios. Speak for Mark Madden, for what you will. I am not his biggest fan. I never have been his biggest fan. I've seen what he's done to some of my followers

with just exposing some addresses and talking about their families and all that. I think he's not the brightest person out there. but he is connected to the Penguins more than the Steelers. I mean, we all saw what happened over the weekend with T.J. Watt and the whole Watt family just going after him for a report that doesn't seem like it's true. But he did say on his radio show today that there was some conflict between management Rutherford and Penguin's ownership. Part of it was that I think they forced Rutherford to fire Carmanos when he didn't want to. And then there were some other parts of it.

There hasn't been leaked yet, apparently. But he said that was the main reason for why Rutherford resigned. and, you know, that that wouldn't be surprising at all. Like I said, you know, Matt's theory, you know, maybe wanting an extension, Penguin's ownership said, hey, you know, we want to see how the season plays out because we've kind of embarrassed ourselves in the last two off seasons,

and maybe Rutherford got insulted and just left. So, you know, I'm sure the details from this will come out at some point. Rutherford loves to talk. He's one of the most candid general managers out there. But I really do think I buy the theory that he maybe wanted an extension that ownership basically said, yeah, no, we're going to wait to the end of the season because we've been embarrassed by Montreal and the Islanders.

And then Jim said, okay, I'm out. And then there's another thing. I think he talked to some of the hockey media this morning, and he did say he's not officially retiring yet. He wants to wait out to the end of his contract in June to see if he wants to retire or get back into the game. So that's interesting as well. And like I said, I definitely think at some point we will get all the details out about this

because something just seems fishy about it, in my opinion. But coming up in the next segment, I'll touch on some candidates that I would like to see the Penguins interview for this position. I honestly love to hire. There's a lot of young hockey minds out there that deserve a general manager job and I think would excel here with the Penguins. We'll get to that and also we'll get to what you guys thought of this after I put a tweet out on the Locked-on Penguins Twitter account. But before we do get to the next segment, it is time to talk about Bill. There's 18 amazing flavors, six new flavors, Kalmo Brownie, cookies and cream, cherry barque, of course. For the 12 original peanut butter, German chocolate, raspberry, min

brownie, the bars are covered in 100% chocolate. They are soft and easy to chew. One of my favorite flavors is still the peanut butter one, 19 grams of protein, 180 calories, 5 grams of sugar, 5 grams of net carbs. The bars are low calorie, low sugar, high protein, and high fiber. You can go to billbar.com right now and use the promo code locked on, and they'll get 20% off your next order. That's promo code locked on for 20% off at billbar.com. All right, welcome back to this episode of the locked on penguins podcast.

I'm your host, Hunter Hote. So there's a long list of good candidates that I think would be just great fits for the Penguins. GM job. Like I said, guys, they need to find someone who has just a good long-term trajectory for this team. And I can tell you who does not fit that bill. Someone like Dale Tallinn, terrible general manager in Florida.

I mean, he, at the expansion draft especially, kept Alex Petrovix and basically let go Riley Smith and Jonathan Marchesau. Pretty embarrassing. And he just, he had terrible trade after terrible trade. I think the Vincent Chowtrik trade was a joke too. He would be on my short list of, please do not

go after. I've also seen it, of course, you guys remember in 2014 pierre mcguire i think got second place he was the runner up in the penguins gm job please do not go after p mcguire he actually despises analytics and i think he would literally and figuratively run this team to the ground so please stay away from someone like peter mcgoyer he would just crush this team also someone like ken hollon in edmonton hard pass on that i think he would stay in emminton though but big hard pass on that also someone who's out of the game Peter Shirelli. He had a hall for Larson Trey.

That should just qualify him from being a GM at any NHL team. He stinks, hard pass on him. I'm glad that John Chaka is not, he's basically banned from the league, I think, until December 31st of this year. So I'm kind of glad that the Penguins are not going to be able to go after him.

So if you stay away from those guys, those old hockey men, I think they should be able to make a good hire here. And J. Fresh Hockey also put out a good long list of people that they should interview. two of them at the top of my list as well. Sam Ventura should get an interview. Of course, he's the director of hockey research.

He's also one of the penguins. Well, he was an assistant general manager for a little bit, but he's just rise in the organization pretty quick ever since he's been hired as a very analytic background. I mean, of course, he founded Warren Nice. And he just, I think he would be a great candidate for this position. If he were to be hired, I mean, I think everyone in the fan base would love it just because of how much he would use the underlying numbers in his decisions.

He would just kind of remind me of like a young Kyle Dubus in a way. I think Dubus has done a really good job in Toronto. He doesn't really panic. He uses a lot of analytics with his moves as well. If they were to hire Sam, like I said, slam dunk for that. Also, Eric Tolski, the Carolina Assistant General Manager, I think he deserves an NHLGM job. I think he would be a great fit here with the Penguins.

He's also a very analytical person. And you can see his work featured on various websites. I think he did outnumbered. NHNumbers.com did stuff for Broad Street Hockey. He would be one of the first people I would call for this position if I were David Moore House. Maybe you call George McPhee. I know he's kind of the president of hockey operations, but I think he would be a decent hire. Mike Gillis of Florida, maybe.

Mike Fuda. Those are honestly just my big candidates, I would say, for this position. They need someone who is not only going to be here for the Winnowmo, which only has a few years left anyway, but is going to be here for the impending rebuild that is going to be. be coming in a few years because, you know, they're not going to be able to keep everyone on this team soon. I mean, Latang's contract's up coming soon. Geno's contract is up soon. Rust's contract is up soon. In case people aren't aware, you know, those are four of your best players on the team. And, you know, especially with Latang and Malkin, they've been here for their whole career. So I'm just really

curious to see where this search goes. You know, also another person that they should not even hire. Dean Lombardi, hard pass on that. He kind of put the Kings in the shitter after they were just starting to be bad. You know, he just made some bad moves. I mean, he also locked up. I think he was the architect behind that Jonathan Quick contract. Probably one of the worst contracts in the league. He's also one of the most overrated goaltenders in the league too. So, yeah,

he should be disqualified from any GM job for giving out that contract alone. But yeah, I just want someone like an Eric Tolski, like a San Ventura, like a Mike Futa, someone that trusts the process to get good results, doesn't make panic moves, obviously has good people skills,

and just makes good good news. You know, that's really what I want. I don't want to see, you know, going back and forth between philosophies. You know what works with this team, speed and skill. You don't need to go get tough like Jim Rutherford did. I just, I want someone to stick to the same philosophy, kind of like what the 76ers did. You know, they had the whole slogan, trust the process, trust the process. I want to see that from someone who was hired to be the next general manager of this team. Morehouse said today, there's not going to be a time frame on this search. Patrick Alvin is going to be considered. He's the interim general manager right now. He also

said if he wants to make a trade, he can do whatever he wants until they fill the position. And then if he needs help, he can always go to Mario. I did find that quote funny, that Mario would help him with trades. So those I think are the best candidates for the next position for the general manager with this team. I've also seen some people say, oh my God, you can make Mike Sullivan, the GM and the coach. Probably not a good idea. You never really see one person with both the GM and the head coach and duties of any sports team. Yes, I know Bill Belichick is the head coach and the general manager of the Patriots, but I mean, he's also one of the greatest coaches of all time. But that's just also how I think it's always been with New England as well.

But I just, I don't think that would be a good idea. I just want someone with a bright mind, and there's plenty of candidates out there to choose from. It would be curious to see what way the organization goes for this hire. And again, I will say this, you know, Mike Darnay did have a great tweet. Please follow me, works for KDKA, did stuff for Pensburg. You don't need to do the yeah-butt with Jim Rutherford's tenure. It starts and ends with the two back-to-back cups that he brought. brought this team. I mean, he even said it best with his follow-up to

fans of so many teams would kill to even have a chance at one championship. I mean, this team has been to four Stanley Cup finals throughout Sid and Gino's time here. I mean, two under Rutherford. I mean, there's so many franchises that haven't even been to a Stanley Cup final when Jim Rutherford was here. So, I mean, it's just, we can talk about the moves that he made over the last few years on another point. And yes, they did stink. but it starts and ends with those two cups that he brought this team in 2016 in 2017. I mean, you're just, you're missing it is all I have.

So I really hope some people cut it out with those kind of takes just because it's just, it's not necessary yet this time. But that'll do it for this segment of the Locktime Penguins podcast. Coming up in the next one, we're going to get to your responses, what you guys thought about this just stunning news that we saw today. But before we do get to that, it is time to talk about betonline.ag. There's only one place that has you covered in one place for you trust. That is bet online.

You can sign up today for a free account and use that promo code locked on for your 50% off. Welcome bonus. Don't just sit on the sidelines anymore, guys. Get in on the action. Don't forget to use that promo code locked on to receive a 50% off welcome bonus with your first deposit. That's Bet Online, your online sports book experts. All right, welcome back to this episode of the Locked on Penguins podcast. I'm your host, Hunter Hotee.

So I did put a tweet out on the Lockdown Penguins Twitter account, just basically saying, you know, huge show coming. I'm stunned by Jim Rutherford resigning. Just what are your all's thoughts on it? Let's just get into it. True North Penn Spam says, I was looking for an update on Dumlin and then this bomb dropped.

Wow, first off, I hope everything is okay with Jim. I do think the timing is fine, though, as he weathered the main part of this pandemic, shit storm, and now it is time for a new era. Yeah, I agree with you. You know, I saw some of the takes like, oh my God, he just made some of these trades and dipped, and it's just like, oh, my God.

Like, you guys are just missing the point. Like, obviously, I'm sure he didn't want to just dip randomly after making the trade for Kaspari Kappen and signing Yanik Weber and doing some other things in this offseason. But, I mean, I'm sure he was thinking long and hard about this decision. You don't just do this overnight. It doesn't just come to you like, oh my God, like, I'm going to resign right now. You know, I'm sure he was probably thinking about this for a few weeks, a month or something like that, and he just maybe thought it was time.

So just the people that are saying, like, oh, my God, like, he just got up and dipped. It's just randomly. It's just not true. But I do agree it is time for New Era. It's time to bring in someone who will be. here for the long term, someone with a younger mind who will be able to lead this team through a rebuild.

Alan T. Odor says, I hope everything is okay with JR. I didn't see this coming at all. Should be interesting to see what the interim GM can and can't do since supposedly he's able to consult with Mario. I agree, Alan. I'm curious to see what Alvin will do in the interim. There's obviously a lot of defensive issues with this team right now.

I mean, Marino is her. We still don't even know updates with him. Doomlin is her. I think he's still day-to-day with that lower body injury. I mean, this team is down a lot of defensemen right now. I haven't even gotten to the point that they signed Yonick Weber. And for my immediate thoughts on that, he's not good. If you look at his underlying numbers from J. Fresh hockey, his player card, which is just awesome. His projected wins above replacement, 23%. His even straight offense, 26%, even straight defense, 37%. His finishing ability, 37%. Goals per 60, 33%. Is primary assist for

60 minutes, 10%. Just really doesn't contribute anything at either end of the ice. I mean, I get it, though. They're kind of desperate for defensive help. You play him on the third pairing. I think he's going to make $700,000,000,000k. If he stinks, you just put him in the press box. But I'd still rather them just trade for someone like Vince Dunn or Travis Dermott from St. Louis and Toronto, respectively. But they went on and got immediate help without giving up any assets.

Nikki Wheels had a pretty funny tweet. That 3-0-0 must have did it for him. Yeah, honestly, I think I would have resigned my job, too, after seeing Malkin and Littang screw up that in overtime. because, you know, Malkin's going to be a walking meme for the rest of the year just after not finishing that. He also had a breakaway, of course, right before that, hit the crossbar. It was just a hard game to watch from him. Nicholas Malsom said, though, I wish nothing but the best for Jim and hope everything is okay health-wise,

but I'm still shocked he resigned, considering some of his off-season moves that originally looked bad. I've actually been pretty good so far this year, mainly Casperi Captain. Yeah, man, it is weird timing. I mean, the team was playing well through seven games, four and two and one points. in their last five games they've gone a total of nine of their last 10 points. Like you said, man, the captain trade has looked really good. He's been one of their best skaters ever since he made his debut. The Jankowski one, though, kind of went down if you saw some numbers this morning.

His expected goal share is in like 40% now or something like that. His possession has also plummeted. Not looking great there. But then, you know, the one that he made the last offseason with Brandon Tannen. I mean, that signing is looking great as well. But yeah, man, I mean, I think he is okay. Healthways, David Morehouse, did say in the press conference that that was not the reason why he resigned. But yeah, man, it was definitely really freaking shocking that he resigned today.

I just definitely did not see it at all. And like True North Penns fans fan said, I was looking forward to a Duman update today because he's their second best defenseman on the team. Well, second or third, I guess. And like I said, this team does not go anywhere without him being hurt long term. And as I say this, I'm going to leave you guys with this. Jim Rutherberg just talked to Mike DeFabo of the Pittsburgh Post. Because I hear some quotes here. Hasn't made any decisions on the future. Jim also said it was my decision. It was just time to do it. Didn't get into specifics. This was the quote that though that stood out. He said when I first came here, I said I was going to come here for two to three years. I'm in my seventh

year. I guess I've outlasted my welcome. He also said, I can't say enough good things about how I've been treated by ownership. I prefer to just move on and leave it at that. Leave it at that. I mean, this just screams to me, guys, that he just wasn't happy with the ownership, not giving him an extension just because of what happened these last two years. And he's just like, all right, see you guys. And he's just basically like, yeah, I guess I've outlasted my welcome. And I'm just going to leave because they're not going to resign me in the middle of the season. So that's just basically my take on that.

I just really found it interesting with that last quote. You know, just I've outlasted my welcome. So I think that's your big indicator right there that this was, there's definitely some conflict. I think that happened. You know, what specifics were there. I'm not really sure. I'm going to try to find out.

for you guys as quick as I can with maybe getting some guests on the show, but, you know, I think that's the best theory that we have right now. But that will do it for this episode of the Locked-on Penguins podcast. I really appreciate you guys listening to this. I'm definitely not something I thought I would be talking about today or for a while, honestly, but, you know, it's a new time now for the Penguins and we'll be curious to see who they hire for the next general manager of this team. And we'll be back tomorrow with another episode. I think tomorrow we will do a post-game episode after the game against Boston, then Friday. I'm not really sure what we're going to do for that yet. Maybe another crossover with the locked on rangers host john chick but still up in the air right now for the

rest of the week but i will talk to you all tomorrow