Locked On Penguins - Daily Podcast On The Pittsburgh Penguins - Which Penguins players will go BOOM or BUST in 2025-26?

Episode Date: August 18, 2025

The Penguins have a lot of question marks heading into the 2025-26 season, including several players who could have big years or regressive years. Patrick and Hunter begin the show talking about some of the Penguins' boom or bust candidates for the upcoming season. They begin with goaltender Tristan Jarry; can he have a bounce-back year after a strong finish, or is he the goalie we all think that he is? They also look at defenseman Ryan Graves and whether or not a new coaching staff can bring him some kind of success, and two of the rookies who had big finishes to the year. Finally, the Nailers have hired Ryan Papaioannou as their 21st head coach, and he comes with a pretty sterling track record of development. Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!GametimeToday's episode is brought to you by Gametime. Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code LOCKEDONNHL for $20 off your first purchase. Terms and conditions apply.Monarch MoneyTake control of your finances with Monarch Money. Use code LOCKEDONNHL at monarchmoney.com/lockedonnhl for 50% off your first year.FanDuelToday's episode is brought to you by FanDuel. Football season is around the corner, visit the FanDuel App today and start planning your futures bets now.IndeedNow, you can speed up your hiring process with a $75 Sponsored Job Credit. Just go to Indeed.com/LOCKEDON right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Terms and conditions apply.FANDUEL DISCLAIMER: 21+ in select states. First online real money wager only. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG (CO, IA, MD, MI, NJ, PA, IL, VA, WV), 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (WY, KS) or visit ksgamblinghelp.com (KS), 1-877-770-STOP (LA), 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

There is a wide array of outcomes for the 2025, 2025, 2006 Pittsburgh Penguins, including how several players will perform after either disappointing years or career seasons. We're going to dive into them and what we're looking at this coming season right after this. You're locked on penguins, your daily podcast on the Pittsburgh Penguins,

part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. Welcome back. to the Locked-on Penguins podcast. I'm one of your host, Patrick Damp. You can follow me across all social media platforms at Synonym 4Wet. Joined, as always, by the one and only Hunter Hodes. You can follow him on Twitter at Hunter Hodes. You can give our show's Twitter account a follow at L-O-U-U-Square penguins. You can also find us on Instagram at Locked-on underscore Penguins. And of course, we appreciate you making us part of your daily routine. Don't forget that we have

are free and available wherever you get your podcasts as well as YouTube. If you're following us on YouTube, be sure to hit the notification button. That way you can be among the first to know when we drop our newest episodes. Before we get going, this episode is brought to you by Monarch Money. Take control of your finances with Monarch Money and use code locked on NHL at Monarchmoney.com for 50% off your first year. Hunter, we're getting closer and closer to training camp. While the news hasn't picked up, while the transactions haven't picked up, we do have to start looking at this penguin's roster as it is currently constructed. We obviously expect there to be some

changes between now and training camp, between now and the start of the regular season. A lot of players are going to go down to the minor leagues. Some players might get released back to juniors. there might be some trades, some signings, we will see. But as we inch closer and closer, we got to look at some of the big names and some of the players who we know, even between now and then, are likely more than not to be on this roster when they drop the puck at Madison Square Garden to start the season. So what we're going to do with today's episode, we're going to talk boom or bust. Simply put, we're going to look at how these players performed last season and what we expect from them this coming season.

Will they improve? Will they regress? Will they stay mostly the same? And because we've had some serious fun on this show in the last week with our lists, with remembering some guys, unfortunately, before we get to the main course, we're going to have to eat our vegetables. So let's start with the goaltender.

Tristan Jari. 36 starts in 24, 25, a 16, 12, and 6 record, 893 save percentage, two shutouts, and a 3.12 goals against average. The last two years, he has been below average. Too bad. There has been no running from that. However, when he returned from his second stint in the minors last year, he went on a little bit of a run two shutouts in nine games nine of those games that he played save percentage over 900 five games of a save percentage below 900 so it's difficult overall to handicap this because prior to his second stint in the minors we were all the way out and while i'm not going to say either of us are back in it was a pretty encouraging end of the the season for Tristan Jari.

I mean, sure, it was a little encouraging, but the games really didn't mean anything to the Penguins. And as I kept tweeting, he was just on a prime LeBron heater when the games, or we shouldn't say the games, but the stakes were just so low because every time the stakes get even a little bit high, he falters because that's been who he's been throughout his entire Penguins career, in my opinion, especially when you look at the playoffs. and I'm not going to hold that one game against the Rangers against him. He had a broken foot.

But, you know, you look at that series against Islanders. You look at games and the Penguins, you know, had chances to make playoffs the first year they missed of this three-year stretch. He wasn't good in that second to last game against the Chicago Blackhawks. And the Penguins as a whole didn't play well that game, but he especially didn't as well. So, you know, I've been out on him for the last couple of seasons. That's not going to change this year. I still think if we're talking boom or busts. This is going to be bus for me unless he proves me wrong at this way.

And I think he has to prove basically the entire fan base wrong, if I'm being completely honest. I just really don't see it with him at this point. And I also don't see him finishing this contract with the Penguins. Could he have decent stretches of play next season? Oh, absolutely. I mean, you saw it at the end of this past season. It wouldn't be surprising if we saw a stretch where he gets at least a little hot for two, three weeks. But for the entire season as a whole, I think you're going to see him be.

kind of what he was last year, which was below average. I just, I don't think you're going to get him to play at a higher level, especially behind a defense like this that is not going to be very good, no matter how you slice it. Right. And that's where I'm at is I have him as a bust candidate, but it's got an asterisk on it to the point where I don't want to frame this as me saying, oh, you know, buy stock and Tristan Jari now, because this is the dip,

by the dip, he's going to go through the roof. But you brought up a couple different factors there. One, I think we are pretty well set on understanding this guy does not respond well to pressure. You look at the last few years. You look at some of his playoff performances. When the stakes get higher, he does not rise to the occasion. You also look at the defense that this team is trotting out there as of Monday, August 18.

It would take a Vesna caliber type goalie to lift that defense, and he is not that. So you put those two things together. He's going to be a bust candidate for this. The other reason I put him in the bust category is I think at this point now, at the very least, as the penguin's goaltender, we know what we're going to get from him. Oh, yeah. He's going to have a stretch where you go, where the hell is this. a spin all that time. And he plays really well. He keeps them in games, maybe even gets a shutout,

makes a couple big saves, and wins a few games. And then I'll have a stretch where you go, all right, I can see how and why you spend time in the minors over the last two years. And this is how I'll end it with Tristan Jari. And we'll touch on one more player before we head to break. I still maintain. I think that there is a mental block for him with the Pittsburgh Penguins. I think he's a solid change of scenery candidate. If you were to put him in any other team, I think he would,

or any other good team, I would say. I think if you sent him to a bottom feeder, you'd get likely the same results because he wouldn't get a lot of help. But if you put him on a team that's in the mix, on the bubble, I think he could help, but we'll see what happens with him. I'm with you. I don't see him finishing this contract in Pittsburgh.

So we'll move on from Tristan Jari. We'll quickly talk about another player on this team that we are big fans of opposite of Tristan Jari. And that's Brian Rust. Big year last year, 71 games played 31 goals, 34 assists, 65 points. The goals and points, they set a career high for Brian Rust. the assist that was a tie for his career high with 34 since 1920 not the 1920 but 2019 2019 2020 don't want to get it confused there he has consistently scored 20 or more goals his points total have hovered between the low 40s and the mid 50s I'll just say this I'm going to

say boom for boom or bust but much in the way I was talking about jari I think you're going to consistently get the same you've gotten from him over the last five years. Logic says he should slow down, but looking at the way he's played the last five years, until he shows me signs of slowing down, going to be the same kind of year. You're going to get 25 to 30 goals, 60-ish points, and he's going to look really good in the top six. I'll go boom just because I think he's going to have another good year for the penguins, but it's not going to be another career year. I don't think you're going to get 31 goals, 65 points.

and 71 games at O'Brien Russ next year would be awesome. But I think you're probably going to get, you know, 20 to 25 plus goals, you know, 50, 55, 60 points. I don't think he's going to hit 65. And if he gives you something like that, despite being a little bit older again for this upcoming season, that is totally fun. He's been one of the Penguins' most consistent players since coming up.

Obviously, he was one of their best players last year, third on the team and points only behind Sidney Crosby and Ricardo Rekyll. But because he set a career high last year, Pat, I just don't think he's going to do that again. Obviously, would love to be proven wrong on that front. I just think that's like him at his very best points-wise. Just don't know if we're going to get that again next season. But I'll still go boom just because I think he's going to be a very consistent

player for the Penguins next year unless he's traded before the season. But I don't think that's going to happen at least right now. It's more likely that one over Kelle or Carlson gets traded if they do. But again, I don't want to keep saying the same thing. we've been saying all season because nothing has happened. Exactly. That's where I am to. And I also want to put this in place for Brian Rust.

I think there's going to be less consistency for him next year. But in this regard, I don't think he's going to be stapled to Sidney Crosby the way he was last year. I think that Dan Mews is going to do a lot of experimenting. We're going to see a lot of different line combinations. We're going to see some of the young guys who come. come up, get a shot with Sidney Crosby. And I think Dan Mews, because this team does not have playoff or championship expectations right now, we'll give longer runway to that.

It's not going to be a, okay, I gave it three games and it didn't work. We're going to pull the plug. You're going to see five, six, seven, eight, maybe more games where you have these different line combinations. And that doesn't mean that Brian Russ is getting demoted. it doesn't mean he's suddenly going to stink, but he plays so well with 87 that you take that away from him. You'll see a dip in production, but I don't think you'll see a dip in play. So I do think that's going to factor in to Brian Rust's season this year.

But that'll do it for the opening segment, but we're not done talking boom and bust. We've got plenty more players. We want to get to looking at the 25, 26 season. We'll get into those. So hang around with us. We'll talk about that when we get back right after this. Before we do that, though, we've got to tell you about today's first sponsor, and that is Monarch Money. Most people can't name all their financial accounts or what they're even worth, whether it's 401K's properties or investments.

And when you don't have the full picture, you can end up leaving money on the table. That is why there is Monarch Money. It's an all-in-one personal finance tool that brings your entire financial life together in one clean, easy-to-use interface, on your laptop or your mobile device. Monarch money does the heavy lifting for you. You can link all of your accounts in minutes and see clear data, visuals, and get smart categorization of your spending. And you'll finally feel in control of your money without ever touching Excel or one of those

annoying spreadsheets. I'm a big fan of Monarch money. I started using it about a year ago. It linked everything I need together, whether it's my bank account, my credit cards, my savings accounts, all of my subscriptions, it's right there. I'm not toggling between my banking app, my credit card apps, my 401k planning, all that stuff is linked right there in Monarch money. It's put me on a good road financially.

I'm a huge fan of it because if you know me, math isn't my strong suit and Monarch, it's stepping in to do the math for me. I can't recommend it enough. So don't let financial opportunities slip through the cracks. use code locked on NHL at monarchmoney.com in your browser for half off your first year. That's a 50% offer for your first year at monarchmoney.com using the code locked on NHL. Welcome back into the Monday edition of Locked on Penguins. I'm Patrick Damp hanging out with my good pal, Hunter Hodes on this Monday.

And we're going to keep our boom bust segment going here. let's move on to another player who has kind of been a nightmare for the Pittsburgh Penguins for the last few seasons, and that is defenseman Ryan Graves. Last year, 61 games, one goal, three assists, four points, a minus 15 plus minus. And there's no easy way to sugarcoat this to make it look good. he's been a liability for the penguins since Penn was put to paper. Now, I will add this, and you and I had this discussion when it happened. It made sense, considering who had left the team defensively,

and you looked at his game in Colorado as well as New Jersey, and you could see the fit. You could see the idea behind it, and you add the caveat of it's July 1st. you're going to overpay, you're going to spend a little too much money because that's what happens on July 1st, especially when we were still in the flat cap world. So it made sense at the time, but I don't think anybody could have predicted it was going to go this poorly. His micro stats coming into that off season when he signed that deal with the penguins were a little bit concerning. like I turned on the film and I was like,

there are definitely some attributes here that can help the penguins, even though I still looked at his micro stats and it was like, hmm, still a little bit concerned about those, but I wasn't as down on the contract as a lot of other people were just because it felt like at least on film, there were some parts of his game that I felt like could really fit. And he was doing things with those teams that were helping them win.

But then he didn't bring any of those attributes to the penguin. and everything that he was doing poorly just got so much worse these last couple of years. And you said, here's one thing I want to ask you, though, Hunter, real quick, like philosophically, when I look at this, because I'm on board with everything you're saying, I watched the film, I looked at the stats, and I was like, you know what? I think this is a bet worth taking.

How much of this do you think is environment versus individual? Because I think if you were to ask me, it's a little bit of both. He came to a team that has been poor defensively for a couple of years at this point. And you knew that he wasn't going to be the Brian Duman to Chris LaTang. But how much of it do you think is the environment and how much of it do you think is the player himself?

I feel a lot of it is on the player, honestly, just because it feels like he lost everything else in his game. He had no confidence during that first season. He was trying to build it up at, times last season. Kyle Dubus even low-key called him out without fully calling him out after his first season saying that he needs to be better going into next season or that should be last season. But he never got better. Like the bar was on the floor and he barely got above it. Like if you want to say he was a teeny bit better, I'll maybe give that to you. But I didn't really

notice that much of a difference. And I have them very much as a bus candidate this year. He needs to go out there and prove that he can play at even a below average level. We're not even at below average right now, Alex. We're at below replacement level right now when it comes to Ryan Graves. If he can get up to below average, God forbid, even get close to average for next season, I will take that in a heartbeat. And, you know, the optimists and some people will be like, well, you know, there's a new coaching staff now. DMUs can look to get more out of them.

I don't know if that's going to help at all. It would be great, but I think he kind of is what he is. right now, the penguins. I also don't see him finishing this contract with the team. It's not very good. And he hasn't had any confidence these last couple of years. He's such a big defenseman, but he doesn't play like it on the ice. He plays like someone who's like 5-8, honestly.

He doesn't use his size to his advantage. He gets bullied around the net, doesn't shoot the puck enough, even though I saw that quite often on the tape in both Colorado and New Jersey. He's not getting into the play, generating any offense. He's just not helping the team win. in any level when he's on the ice. Right. So that changes,

you're just going to get more of the same with him. And so very much of us can't hear me. Yeah, that, that's where I am as well. And I mean, you look at the way he was used last year, scratched a lot, buried on the bottom pair,

had the lowest average time on ice of his career when he plays more than half the season in his pro career with less than 15 minutes time on ice. So that kind of tells you, where the confidence was, I also have him as a bust candidate. I think at this point, you nailed it with the confidence. His confidence is just shot. I think that's a hugely underrated factor for where he's been,

is that you see a lot of second guessing in his game now. You see him really struggle and hesitate to make decisions. And that's all confidence because you're a 30-year-old, multi-year NHL player. It's not like he's a rookie still figuring. it out, you can give some grace to young guys who second guess and have confidence issues because they're still learning the pro game. That's not Ryan Graves. Now, again, I have him as a bus candidate. I think it's very similar to Jari in that we know who he is. We know what we're getting.

It's difficult to see anywhere else. But I do understand and I do think there is something to that optimist's view of a new coach because here's, just hear me out on this. You're going to have a new system. You have a guy who has worked mostly, if not all of his career in development with a staff that is very focused on development. And we as analysts and fans hear that and we think young guys, young guys. That also applies to reclamation projects. Now, at 30, I'm very skeptical that Ryan Graves can be a reclamation project. but to put a bow on it and everything that you said as well,

I think you can at least build him up to above replacement level. Is he going to be good and live up to his contract? I would be stunned if that happens. But getting up to that level, I think is at the very least achievable because it, for all intents and purposes with the coaching staff, it's a clean slate for him. just gets to restart everything that he has been dealing with with the Penguins for the last two years. But we'll leave it there on Ryan Graves because we got to talk about two more players really quickly before we had to break.

We don't want to make this segment too too long. But let's get into the two players that everybody's excited about. The rookies. Rutger Magrorty and Villay Coybin. And let's start with Magrory. Eight games, one goal to assist for three points. unfortunately gets injured in one of the last games, causing him to miss the Wilkesbury Scranton Penguins playoffs.

Also because they were eliminated early, he was probably going to be able to play in the first round had they made it out of the play in, which they did not, really picked his game up after coming back and starting the year in the NHL. He was totally not ready at the start of the year. By the time he gets back, he was ready. here's the question for Rutger McGroarie. How does he recover from an injury at the pro level? Can he get back to a good level?

And what does he do to adapt his game once other teams start to get film on him? And lastly, was the chemistry with 87 real or was it a flash in the pan? I've got him as a boom candidate, but temper our expectations. He's not going to become a he's not going to suddenly become a rookie of the year nominee or an All-Star, but he is going to take a step forward. Yes, I actually have both him and Covenant as boom candidates for this year. And I agree with you on that when it comes to tempering expectations. I have been talking about that throughout the off season and on the hockey news.

I have seen some absolutely wild takes from some fans about these two players saying that, oh, man, they could be called or trophy candidates if they're in the top 60, the entire season. It's one of the breaks, man. Like there are going to be better rookies out there who have better seasons than both Roger McGority and Billy Coyvenon. Now, I will say, I've also seen some takes out there that, oh, these guys, there's a good chance they start in the AHL.

I disagree with that. I don't think they have much left to learn in the HL, and I get when they're going to say, well, look at the Fords right now. Yeah, I know. There's a surplus of Fords on this team right now, but I don't think McGority and Coyvind are going to be blocked. If they go out there and ball out and ball out in camp and preseason,

they're going to make this team, and they should make this team if they do that. They show that they were ready for the show at the end of the season, albeit it was a small sample size. But I would much rather see those guys start the season than a few veteran forwards who are really not going to be on this team past the trade deadline or pass this next season in full if they don't get traded at the deadline.

You know, someone like an Achari, Danton Heinen, and Kevin Hayes. Like I'd rather see players like Magorgian Coyvenin who potentially do have a long-term future with this team, even though they're not, you know, core piece prospects. They're solid secondary players who could turn into some decent scores if they hit their potential. Again, if you get 15 goals, 20 assists from Grosy this year, boom, you take that.

Same with Billy Coivman, Pat. Say you get 10 goals, 20 assists out of him this year for 30 points or 10 goals, 25 assists for 35 points, just because I think he's more of the playmaker. Magordi's a bit more of a finisher, really good around the net. I will gladly take that sat line from Billy Croydon as well. Say he gets anything more than that. That's an added bonus for me. Like those two guys get 40 points,

about half a point per game if they play all 82 games, for example. Take that and run for the hills. Okay, that is really good for their development going forward. So I have both of them as boom candidates for this season. So do I. And it comes back to everything that you said. Like don't have sky high unrealistic expectations for them. Are they good prospects?

Absolutely. But they are not blue chippers. They are not guys who are going to be. the franchise. They're going to be big contributors should they develop correctly. They won't, they will be very similar. And as I like to say on this show, not making one to one comparisons, just generalizing. It will be like your Brian Rusts, like your Jake Gensel's, guys who they are really good complimentary pieces for the superstars once you have them. They will punch above their weight class. They will produce well.

long as they develop and you have those top tier talents ahead of them. If you're putting the saddle on them and trying to make them your top guys, you're probably going to be disappointed. I will add, I don't see any of them becoming Jake Gensel. I know what you are going for, though. Any of those guys turn into someone like Jake Gensel, though, I'd be absolutely stunned.

But I have to say. And you get, you get what I'm saying that nobody had Jake Gensel pencil in to become a superstar winger, but seeing him as a guy who could ride shotgun with Sidney Crosby and put up 25, 30 goals. That ended up becoming a thing. And Gensel ultimately became more than that.

But you get my point. So that's going to do it for boom or bust. We might bring this back the closer we get to the season or maybe even revisit it in the season to see if we are smart boys or dumb boys. But we'll find out as the season unfolds, but that is going to do it for this segment. When we come back, Wheeling Naylars, and head coach after Derek Army surprisingly left. We'll dive into that really quickly to end the show.

So stick with us. We'll talk about that when we get back right after this. All right, we're back here on the Monday edition of Locked-on Penguins. We're closing this one out with some news that broke last week that kind of flew under the radar for us. We wanted to wait for there to be a little bit more of detail on it. And wouldn't you know it, we got it today. And that is that the Wheeling Nailers have named a new. head coach. And that is Ryan Papuanow from the Alberta Junior Leagues, which I know a lot of people

are going to be kind of myth by that. You usually expect maybe a bigger name with some bigger experience, but don't let that scare you away. He has been with the Brooks Bandits for 17 years from 2008 to 2024 in the British Columbia Hockey League. He was an assistant coach in 0809, rose through the ranks, and became the general manager and head coach. And what have we been talking about with Dan Mews hire, a lot of the hirings and other names that have become part of the Penguins organization over the past year and a half?

Development, development, development, development, development. and you can't get more development than a guy who has done really well in these Alberta Junior leagues. He has coached some big names and graduated a lot of stars to Canadian juniors, NCAA, minor leagues, and even the NHL. And that includes maybe the best defenseman on earth right now, Kail McCar. So I look at this higher and, yeah, it's not a known name. But you look at the resume of Papua now and who he's coached. There's a really good hire for the nailers.

100%. And Pat, he led the bandits to nine league championships during his tenure, including the team's first BCHL championship this past season. He's also won four Junior A national championships. He's won the coach of the year, three separate occasions. Not only is he going to developing, he's a proven winner as well. This guy knows how to win and wants to bring that winning predigree. to the Wheeling Nailers.

And there were a couple of tweets from some of the prospect people, including Scott Wheeler that got me even more excited. You know, Scott put this out last week, and he said he got a text from a source a few weeks ago that read, how come no one has been writing about this guy and the job that he is done with players and teams? Because apparently some people thought that he'd been blacklisted in the WHL, but it definitely seems like the Penguins were like,

nope, we didn't have you blacklisted. We want you to come in and be the head coach of the Wheeling Nailers. So this is someone who, a lot of the big prospect people, Pat, they are very high on. So this has me also ultra excited. And you saw this statement that some of the Penguins put out, you know, Jason Spitzer, for example, adding Ryan to the organization as the head coach of the Wheeling Nailers is a pivotal hire for the Penguins in our development system, said Jason Spetsa. He goes in, you know, being a winner, developing, you know, all this other stuff.

And it was clear that everyone in the Penguins front office was very good. very on board with this hire. The charge to hire Pabuano was led by Jason Speta, Amanda Kessel, who has done a great job, not just with the main penguins, but the baby penguins as well. Lucas Malloy was also big for this hire. Obviously, Kyle Dubas was overseeing the whole thing as well. But it seems like everyone in the front office was very much on board with this. And again, the more that I read about him, the more excited I get for this hire.

And they've been very good, especially as of late Pat. And I think Ryan's job now will to be get them over the hump a little bit in the playoffs while also overseeing some of the development of some of these other players in the ECHL that could graduate to both Wilkesbury and then potentially down the line to the main squad of the penguins. For sure. It comes back to the thing I've been saying for years about the way the Penguins organization is operated. And they're obviously not alone in this. So many clubs have to do this now in a hard cap world. is that the penguins and like I said, so many other teams have really embraced a baseball style development model.

Years ago, it used to be your HL team was your feeder. That was where your guys we want to see play in the NHL type prospects would go. It was rare they would see the ECHL. There were so few successes of guys going all the way from double A to AAA up to the NHL, which, if you're unaware, ECHL is considered and markets itself as the AA affiliates for NHL teams. And the Penguins kind of got in on that trend early in the Crosby years where they saw, okay, we can use this as an incubator for our longer term projects, guys,

that we don't project to be in the NHL for four to five years, but we do project them to be in the NHL. you get a coach like Papua want to, and you look at this guy and think, he is going to be crucial in these B and C tier prospects, who we might see an NHL future for, but if they can rise through the ranks and do really well in Wheeling and then do well in Wilkes-Bair,

they can get a shot in the NHL. And considering where the penguins are with what they want to do, you're going to still have to do that. and you're going to have to do that even more because as we've talked about, Kyle Dubus, his strategy when it comes to rebuilding and building a franchise, he's not going to put all his eggs in four to five baskets for four to five picks. He's going to try to get six, seven, eight prospects at a time. And you're going to have to compete.

You're going to have to develop. So getting this coach is a really solid hire. And I'm curious to see what the balance. balance becomes here because we know wheeling's been pretty good the last few years. Wilkes bears on its way back up to being a competitive AHL team and even a contending a HL team. We know the penguins are pretty far off from contention. So I'm curious to see what the balance is going to be for winning in development.

Surprisingly, man, I don't have much more to add on this. I agree with you on that completely. And you might see some of the players that you saw at development camp pat, potentially start the season with the wheeling nailers. And in that case, they can start developing under this new head coach. So again, TBD, but considering the players that he has developed, the winning history that he has, seems like a really good process-based hire for the Penguins. And they've been doing that with these last few hires, even when Wilkesbury,

you know, Kirk McDonald, very good process-based hire, did a good job with Wilkesbury last year. I know they didn't go that far in the playoffs, but I still think he did a fairly good job with that team. Damn you. I like the process that they had with this head coaching hire, TBD on the results. So the process is for these three hires at the ECHL, AHL, an initial level, I've really liked. It's now on these guys, all of them to go get results, but also develop some more of these younger players. Also, just to end the show, Pat, Mike Rupp officially out at Sportsnet Pittsburgh, we'll have more on this on our Wednesday episode where we can dedicate a full segment to it, I think.

Yeah, absolutely. We got to spend some time on that and we don't want to bury that at the end. So we'll leave that to Wednesday and we'll leave you right now. Thank you as always for tuning in to the locked on penguins podcast as Hunter and I have said. We will be back with a brand new episode for you on Wednesday. We'll talk about Mike Rupp and anything that might happen between now and then. But for Hunter Hodes, I'm Patrick Damp. Thank you as always for tuning in. We'll be back on Wednesday.