Locked On Penguins - Daily Podcast On The Pittsburgh Penguins - Will the Penguins figure out a way to sign Tomas Tatar?

Episode Date: August 14, 2023

It's already mid-August and the season will be here before we know it! Hunter and Pat start off today's show with the latest updates on Tomas Tatar and why he seems to be in discussions for a contract with the Penguins. Hunter and Pat look at how he'd be a great fit for the team as the Penguins lack a true middle-six winger for the bottom six. They also analyze how this would give the Penguins a basically perfect offseason considering everything else Kyle Dubas has done. They then try to figure out what kind of contract he will get since that's what it's probably gonna come down to that (the money). They then discuss how the Penguins will have the cap space for next year to make an impact signing, especially with how good the free agent class looks. Finally, they wrap the show with some goalie talk and how nobody should be surprised by the moves that Dubas made at the position this offseason.Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!FanDuelMake Every Moment More. Right now, when you bet on a Super Bowl Winner, you can GET BONUS BETS EVERY TIME THEY WIN IN THE REGULAR SEASON! FanDuel.com/LOCKEDON.FANDUEL DISCLAIMER: 21+ in select states. First online real money wager only. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG (CO, IA, MD, MI, NJ, PA, IL, VA, WV), 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (WY, KS) or visit ksgamblinghelp.com (KS), 1-877-770-STOP (LA), 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

From one watch to another, the Pittsburgh Penguins are interested in bolstering their forward depth. Pat and I are going to discuss that right after this. You're Locked-on Penguins. Your daily podcast on the Pittsburgh Penguins. Part of the Locked-on Podcast Network. Your team every day. Hello, welcome back to another episode of the Locked-on Penguins podcast. I am one of your hosts, Hunter Hodes.

That is Patrick Damp. My co-host. You can follow me on Twitter at Hunter Hodes. You can follow the show's Twitter at Ellenorpe penguins. You can follow Pat's Twitter at Sinnam for Wet. Also, thank you all so much for making this your first listen slash watch of the day. So Penguins looks like they're still in on the Tomas Tatar sweepstake. Every time I think of Tomah.

Tatar! Every time. That video comes up of that Montreal Canadiens fan, just doing that tatar. It's probably one of the underrated funny videos of hockey Twitter. And it turns out it wasn't any reporter that really broke anything this weekend. It was a fan by the name of Matt Meager, someone who goes by Flux underscore CC on Twitter, found a interview deep in the catacombs of the internet. And Tatar basically just said, yeah, I've been in talks with the Penguins and then

a couple other people reported what they had been hearing and stuff. But overall, if you're asking my opinion, this makes all the sense in the world for the Penguins. We discussed it a little bit a couple of weeks ago on the show. Penguins don't have a true offensive threat in the bottom six right now. There could be one developing in Drew O'Connor, but he's still a little bit of an unknown right now, even though I want to see what he does this season. But with someone like Tatar,

he can give you at least 15 to 17 goals, potentially upwards of 20 to 22 goals, someone who can be a constant threat in the offensive zone. And I think you can definitely get him on the cheaper side. The biggest thing is, though, does he still want term at this point, like maybe two, three years, or is he willing to settle on a one-year term? I think that's the big question.

Money-wise, the higher you go for him, the less players you're going to be able to keep on the roster on opening nights. So say, Pat, you sign him to, what, one-year, $1 million. I'm just throwing this out of the ball here. You can maybe keep 22 players on the roster, but then as that number goes up to maybe, I don't know, two and a half, three million, and $3 million was probably pushing in,

even two and a half is probably pushing it. You may be only able to keep 19, not 19, but 20 players, something like that. It starts getting a little complicated, especially with how Jake Gensel does not want to go on or they're not going to put Gensel on LTIR. Do you see a way that they can make this work despite being up against the salary cap? Well, this is the big challenge right now for the penguins and for Kyle Dubas is that Tomas Duttar put up nearly 50 points last year, 20 goals. That's, you have to pay for that in this, in this modern era of the NHL because scoring is always at a premium. So I do think the way they get this done is term. And with the cap going up next year, which is something we're going to talk about later in the show. But with the cap going up next year and with the fact that he's 32 years old, he put up nearly 50 points last year, if you can give him a reasonable, say, two and a half million for the next three years, one, it's very movable in the future if he knows to him. But it's also a guy that right now, if you're in talks with him, you need to get this done.

Because as you said, there aren't really many legitimate scoring threats in the bottom six right now. You have a couple that could be in Nylander and O'Connor, but largely unproven, largely untested. So you just don't know if those guys are going to develop into an offensive push in the bottom six, which is something they sorely need right now. I've written about it. I think that there are guys in the bottom six who can chip in. But the main selling point with the bottom six right now is that they're not going to get caved in defensively, which is fine. And it's an upgrade from last year because they got destroyed defensively when the bottom six was on the ice.

So if I'm dubous, I'm looking at maybe a three-year deal here, two and a half-ish million. You know, it's a guy who we've talked about it a couple times on the show. we're into August now. And guys who are still available, like Tatar, who are still available, you have to kind of take what you're given at this point. Now, you still have negotiating leverage because, again, 20 points or 20 goals, 28 assists, 48 points in a full 82, that has value. But again, where have the offer's been?

So I think two, three years, two and a half million. I think that gets this done. And Dubus has done a good job building some forward depth. So if you have to hack a guy or two off, put them through waivers, lose them, I think you're okay. This would also just close out what has been, I think, a really impressive offseason from Kyle Dubus so far anyway. If you can get this done, you not only will have improved the bottom six defensively, you'll have added an offensive threat down there as well. The bottom six will honestly just be completely repaid, which is I think something that both of us have been wanting him or whoever was going to come in here to do just because the bottom six was so bad.

past season. I do think he's holding out for a little bit of term on his deal, especially after a few-suter signed with a Vancouver Canucks over the weekend, two-year deal, a little bit of money there. He was someone who also had my eye on for the Penguins, but he goes to the Canucks, very Jim Brotherford and Patrick Alvin signing there. I'm wondering with when it comes to Tatar, regular season numbers are great. It's his playoff numbers that have been down a little bit. You know, if you look at his playoff production overall, seven goals, 13 points in 52 games, not the greatest for someone who has played in a lot of playoff games overall. Do you think that's something that these teams are considering just because he hasn't produced

when it's mattered most? Or is that just maybe not as big of a factor as I'm maybe reading into? It's a red flag for me, certainly, because 52 games is not a small sample size. That's a lot of playoff games. and only being able to put up 13 points. Now, granted, he's only ever played, his max playoff games played or 12, and that was last season with New Jersey. So again, like the numbers aren't great,

but at the same time, you do have to take into account that when he's been in the playoffs, he has not been in there long. So it's not like we have an extended run to really look at for him in the postseason. But again, you would hope that, Maybe he's got 10, 12 goals in total, maybe 10, 12 assists to go with it because it's 52 games. And we also have to factor in. He's not a top guy. I don't say that as a shot.

He's just not. He's not a top six bowl, at least not anymore. So you don't need him to light the score sheet up, but you do need him to chip in just a little bit more. So with a team like the penguins who have their eyes on cup contention, that means they want to go on an extended run in the postseason, so they're going to need a little bit more out of them. And I don't think he can't play in the top six in general. You can put him up there for a few games,

and he'll be just fine. For example, you know, Jake Gensel misses five or six games. You can put Duttar up there. He'll get the job done. And then when Gensel is ready to come back, you can just slide to Tartan and he can play on the third line with, I don't know if they want Lars Eller there, which, you know, I've made my thoughts clear on that numerous times on the show,

maybe Drew O'Connor, Matt Nietto, something like that. And honestly, you know, when it comes to just his cap number, it really depends on what they want to do specifically with the backup goalie spot because of Nadelcovich and Magnus Helberg. So maybe, again, the lower the number, maybe the higher some of these players that could be on the team again with 22. You also have waivers available to you, trades potentially before the season. Now if the number's a bit higher, maybe that's Magnus Helberg getting the backup job over Alex

Nelkevich. That's going to be an underrated battle, I think. during training camp. And we'll touch on goalies a little later on in the show. But again, I'm all for it. It can really help the penguins. It would solidify. Honestly, in A offseason, it's funny.

When this offseason started out, I gave dubus about B minus C plus, something like that just because the forward signings, while they were fine, they weren't really moving the needle much in terms of getting more offense from players who aren't in the top six. Now you've done that.

Now you've got it, Eric Carlson. and if you were to sign to TAR, which brings you more offense down there. And there's really nothing much else you could possibly ask for when it comes to an offseason for someone who's really only been on the job for two and a half months now. No, not at all. And the way he has rebuilt the bottom six, we said it on the show. I wrote about it on Penguins' perspectives. The way he's rebuilt this roster is incredible to watch because it's not often you see a general manager

wipe out his predecessor's mistakes this simply and this quickly because that usually involves some form of tanking and they are not doing that. So you add to Tatar. I mean, this offseason goes from a B minus to an A. Oh, 100%. There's no doubt about that. And I'll be really curious to see if the signing is this week, next week, in August at all, in the September camp is right now. Well, I think we're five weeks away from training camp at this point. This is coming up really fast, which is. And by all accounts, last point on this is that it seems like there's a bit of a disconnect here, whether he's going to get a contract right away or if he's going to get a PTO with a

kind of a like asterisk on it. Like, listen, it's a PTO. And then we're going to sign you. If Tomas Tatar gets a PTO, there is something seriously wrong with a lot of teams in this lead because I can't even fathom that the talent that this player has had 20 goals this past season, almost 50 points. the fact that he would get a PTO going into camp, even though they are in quotation marks, that's crazy to think about.

But we'll be staying focused on that heading into the next couple weeks. That will wrap up this segment. Coming up after this break, Penguins are going to have quite a bit of cap space next year as well to go into free agency. And that free agency class right now is a massive step up from this year's free agency class. So we're going to discuss that coming up after this. But before we get to that, we have to discuss our first. friends at Fandul.

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All right. We're back here in this episode of the Lockdown Penguins podcast. I am Hunter Hodes. That is Patrick Damp. Now, Pat, I understand for agency for next year is 12 and a half. Well, not, well, I think that's 12 and a half months. Well, I just almost scoot up the math on that. About 10 and a half months away at this point.

Again, this is why I'm not a math major here, people. But about 10 and a half months away next July, 2024. And the class right now, shaping up to be pretty good. The Penguins, if they choose, they could be making at least a decent splash, even though they do have Jake Gunsel to sign. And I think he's going to command at least $7.5 to $8 million per. But you look at the rest of the contracts that they have expiring next year. Jeff Carter at 3.125, he's not going to be coming back. Ren Pitlick, I mean, that's an unknown right now.

We have to see how he plays if he makes the team coming out of camp. Alex Nealander, that's not going to be a hard negotiation if the penguins go down that road. you have Chad Riedel, who's a UFA, and he won't be getting that much money. Ty Smith is an RFA. He won't be getting that much of a raise. P.O. Joseph is one player at least who could get a decent race. If he has another really good year, I could see him getting, what, to 2.5 million per season and something like that if he has a really good year as a bottom pairing defenseman.

Then you got Alex and Delkevich making $1.5 million. His contract is also up. So it's really just Jake Gensel, and then to a lesser extent, P.O. Joseph, they're going to have money to play with next year. and with how the penguins are set up going into it with the players that they will still have on the team, I think the penguins are going to be an underrated destination for free agents next year. Even though the court is going to be a bit older, I still think good players will be like, you know what, I'm maybe going to come here for a couple of years,

see if I can help them win a cup, and then maybe I can go get a payday elsewhere when the cap continues to rise. We all know the cap is going to go up next year, but it's only going to continue to go up as the years go by. Yeah, you're going to see. at least right now, according to Cap Friendly's projections, a $4 million increase in the salary cap next year. So it's going to go from 83.5 to 87 and a half.

And as it stands today, the Penguins are looking at just under 19 million in cap space. And that's obviously before whatever the Jake Gensel extension is. So let's operate under the fact that maybe they'll have like 10 and a half, 11, 11 million in cap space going into next year. and there's going to be a good chunk of teams that are on the come-up that are going to have much more. But Toronto was an attractive destination for more than just the guys that were on the roster when Kyle Dubus was there. Because by all accounts, he put together an elite hockey organization in Toronto.

And he's well on his way to doing that here in Pittsburgh. So you add up that, like you said, all the big names, even though they're aging, are locked. up. You don't have to do anything with Crosby. Malkin and Latang are locked up. Eric Carlson's locked up. Riley Smith's locked up. And they'll have an opportunity to bring in some real impact players. Now, I don't expect them to be on the huge names that are going to be available. Austin Matthews isn't going to come here just because Kyle Dubus is here? Listen, that's a discussion we can have in like a year or two because if Toronto keeps flaming out, who knows, but different discussion, different day. But, you know, there's going to be some very, very good pieces on the market that put

up 25, 30 goals that, you know, are going to go out there, kind of like we're talking about with Tatar on a different level, they're going to go out there demanding a big raise. And there's going to be a lot of teams that bulk at that. And when their value goes down, Kyle Dubus can say, hey, listen, we want to take the burden off of Crosby and Malkin. We want them to still be good, but we're going to need more help to keep this team in contention. So, you know, come ride shotgun with these guys. And he's, by all accounts, very good at being a negotiator. And I know people will look at a lot of the contracts in Toronto, but all of them lived up to it.

So at this point, next year could be a big offseason. for the penguins. I agree. And just going off what you said about the 10.5.11 million, assuming Jake Gensel comes back, which I think we both think he will. Yeah, P.O. Joseph's contract, if that's $2 million, something like that, or maybe even a little less, you're looking at what, $8.5, $9 million, something like that, you'll still have enough cap space to go out there and sign at least one impact player, maybe two, if you can get another

one on discount. You look at that class right now. I mean, it's absolutely loaded. even outside of Matthews, you got Stephen Stamcoast. You got Elias Pedersen. Well, he's at RFA from Vancouver. You got William Nylander there. They haven't really signed him back.

Sam Reinhart, he's awesome. He's going to be a UFA. You have guys like, just going down the last year. Tyler Bertuzi signed that one-year term in Toronto. If he has a good year, I could definitely see the penguins maybe have an interest in him. You got someone like Tevo Taro Vinen. You got Michael Backlund. Players like that, like not some of these, you know, top line,

players, but some of these players that I just mentioned, even though they're, you know, again, late 20s, maybe early 30s for some of these guys, they can come in here, ride shotgun with an aging of Guinea Malkin and Cindy Crosby. And I think there's still going to be elite players at that point, well, maybe not like, elite at the height of their power, but still insanely good players. You have Eric Carlson, you have Crystal Tang. You'll have the cap space. Why not go out there and try to make at least a little bit of a splash in Freedency?

It was a little bit different this year because the class wasn't that good. but if this clash next year turns out to be awesome and a lot of these guys don't sign with their respective teams, I do that the penguins are going to be right in there and thick of it for some of these good players who usually don't get to market. Yeah, and the other thing is you can also approach this in a similar way that I thought Kyle Dubas was going to approach

this offseason to where if you're going to have double-digit millions in cap space, you can weaponize that. because there's always going to be teams near the upper limit, regardless of how it goes, that are going to look to, they're going to want to re-sign their big names. They're going to want to re-sign their stars, or they're going to need to resign key pieces on their roster.

So you can sit there as Kyle Dubas and the Penguins and go, you know, we got some room. You need some room. What if we take this guy off your hands? And you essentially get an impact player for Penny on the dollar for where you would, which would, in my opinion, something you would want to do rather than sign somebody on the open market. Because on the open market, regardless of the cap, the cap limit,

values on July 1 and after are always inflated by a little bit. It's funny you mentioned that just taking players off of teams who are captured on, Penguins just did that with Riley Smith and they had to give up basically nothing for a player who I think is going to score 20 to 20. 25 goals this upcoming season. So if they have the opportunity to do that again next year, I definitely think Dubas is going to take that. And, you know, he's been able to move out some bad contracts.

I know the Penguins really don't have many of those right now, but say, you know, someone like, I don't think, I don't know if this is going to happen, but say Brian Rust has another down year, for example, that contract may start to look at a little bit dicey because right now he's signed for the next five years, 5.1 to 5 million. He's 31 years old.

if he continues on a downward trajectory, maybe you can try to find a taker for a player like that and maybe get some salary cap room and bring in someone else to replace him. That's just something way down the road. I'm hoping that does not have him because I really like Brian Russ. But, again, they don't have too many bad contracts right now and one of the ones that they have is going to expire next year. But in terms of a player who could be dealt next year,

if things go valid, Brian Russ, I think would make sense in that department, which would also open up more cap space for the penguins to use in trades or free agency. And, you know, another one I'm looking at, and even though Dubus has said he likes them and doesn't have really any designs to move him, is Marcus Pedersen. I mean, if, you know, P.O. Joseph has a big year. If Ty Smith emerges, Pedersen becomes a little bit expendable. And it's a pretty affordable deal at $4 million.

And he'll be a UFA in 2526. So he'd be a pending UFA. So you could probably get something for him. if you wanted, if a team wanted to say trade for them and then extend them. So again, like there's flexibility here, which is incredible to say right now, considering where they were when this offseason began. Ron Hexton and Brian Burke are not running the show anymore. That's for sure.

Just with the way they mongled the salary cap. But you make a good point with that as well. And hey, we're going to have to revisit this as for agency next year gets a little bit closer. Again, we're 10 and a half months away. Finally got the math right. There you go. But there you go. Yeah.

That wraps up the second segment. Coming up after this, we're going to dive into why the moves that Kyle Dubas made it goalie this offseason were not surprising in the slightest. Stick around for that coming up right after this. All right. We're back here in this episode of the Locked on Penguins podcast. I am one of your host, Hunter Hodes. That is Patrick Tampa, my co-host. So, Pat, Kyle Dubas brought in quite a few goalies over the off season.

You got Magnus Helberg. You got Alex Nelkevich. she could re-signed Tristan Jari, did chip out Casey to Smith, but also brought in Garrett Sparks to play down on Wilkesbury, brought in just really got a lot more depth at the position than what I think a lot of us are accustomed to. And when you look at some of these moves, or a good chunk of them, I should say,

it honestly lines up with what he did when he was in Toronto by making some of these big gambles or big bets, whatever word you want to use, in seeing if they're going to work out. Something like a Frederick Anderson, we saw him do that in Toronto, We saw him use Peter Morazic there, Matt Murray, Ilya Samsonov, the latter of which worked really well for the Maple Leafs this past season.

So I don't think we should be surprised by any of this at all. No, and I, you know, I don't want this to have like a negative connotation because I get what he's trying to do. I understand it. You know, Tristan Jari, but when he's healthy, by all accounts we've seen, he's, he can be pretty solid. I also think that there was a good move for him psychologically because if you're on a one-year deal, if you're on an expiring deal, if you're on a prove-it deal and you don't know where

the next deal is going to be, it can hamper your performance. But again, we still don't know. And then you talk about guys like Marazic, guys like Murray, now guys like Nadelcovic. It's like you're hoping for a bounceback because Nadelcovich started pretty well. when he came in with Detroit and then kind of tailed off. And now you're hoping, okay, was that because Detroit wasn't great? Or is it more indicative of the goalie himself? Hellberg, same deal, kind of unproven, not a whole lot to talk about.

So I don't want to say this is a weakness for Kyle Dubus because it hasn't been disastrous, so to speak. But it also hasn't been great. Like this might be the one part of him as a manager where he's not as strong as he is with forwards and defensemen. So I think Jari's going to have a bounce back year. What worries me again is that if he doesn't, there's a question mark behind him. And that was kind of the problem the last couple of years with the Penguins was Jari could be the guy. But sometimes he falters. Sometimes he gets hurt.

And you need to have somebody reliable behind him because as much as people weren't a fan of Casey DeSmith, I always said he's a pretty typical NHL backup. But given the role he was in where sometimes he had to become a spot starter, he's not that guy. And also just the fact that you couldn't sell the fan base and everyone on bringing back that tandem for another year.

that's why this whole Eric Carlson trade, I mean, basically had to happen and where DeSmith is going to another team where he's going to have a chance to start quite a few games. The Canadians have some question marks and goal. You just couldn't sell that to the fan base. And with Nadelcovich this past season, played in 15 games, 13 and 5 and 7, 8.95, 7, 8.95, 7.

Last season, Detroit played 59 games. It was 20 and 24 and 9. 9-0-1 say percentage. So a little bit better in terms of his save percentage, but you go back to his time in Carolina, his best year there, 23 games, 23 starts, 15 and 5 and 3, 932 say percentage. If that's the version that Penguins can get this season, man, that will solve, I think, quite a few problems in terms of their goaltending situation.

And obviously, if Tristanjari stays healthy as well, that will also solve the big one too. But I agree with you there. He just can't fall for this season. We all know it's a big risk. he just has to show that he can stay healthy because when he's healthy, he's one of the better starters in the league. And if you compare him with someone like to Delkevich,

who just a couple of years ago was one of the better starters in the league in Carolina. And I understand the hurricanes play a very goaly-friendly system. Let's be real here. Oh, yeah. Great job of suppressing high danger shots, just keeping their opponents to the outside,

very goaly-friendly. Come to the Penguins now. not as good. It's decent. It's better than Detroit. Don't get me wrong. But it's still decent. Can that help him bounce back? Curious to see that. And also, of course, if he wins the job. But I think there is some untapped potential here for this tandem if both can stay healthy and get back to the play we've seen them play at. And for Nadelcovich, say he wins the job, right? Say he becomes the backup. For him, as long as he can find a medium between, you know, his big, year in Carolina in his faltering in Detroit.

That's all he's going to need to be. 910, 915, 920 ceiling. He's not playing every single game. He's not a spot starter. He's playing every 10th game or so. That's great. That's what you need. If he has to be a spot starter for a couple weeks,

if he finds that happy medium, that's fine. Because I say this about the penguins all the time. If you're a goalie for the Pittsburgh Penguins, you do not need to be a Vesna candidate. You don't have to steal games. And this is where Jari faltered the last couple of years. And same with Matt Murray before him. You don't have to be a Vezna candidate.

You don't have to steal games. You just have to not give them away. If you aren't giving games away, the Penguins are a franchise that always have an amount of firepower to where you just need to be able to keep the other team under two to three goals. I feel like I've been saying that for a decade now or probably longer than that to be. I mean, that that's the franchise. is history. You look at the guys who have been goalies, especially when they win. Sure, Barasso, Flurry, and Murray had incredible runs and incredible moments in those runs, but they weren't the reason that they won. They were good enough to give this team a chance. And as a penguin's

goalie, that's all you have to be asked of is just give your team a chance to win. It's the old Jim Craig line from the 1980 team where he said, my goal when I stepped between the pipes was just to give my team a chance to win. That's it. And it's funny, you know, even looking at the past few seasons history where the penguins have lost in the first round, they haven't obviously gone past the first round since 2018 when they lost up the capitals in the second round, when you look at some of these series losses, you know, 2019, I think, was just a collective failure. I'm going to throw that in the garbage. Oh, yeah, that was top and bottom. Yeah, you look at the COVID failure, the COVID bubble

when they play the Canadians. Matt Murray wasn't good. The next year, you play the Islanders. Tristan Jari gave that away. The next year, you're playing Louis Doming and he couldn't make one more save for the Penguins to win that series. And then Tristan Jari has to come in play on a broken foot. I'm not really going to criticize him that much for that because he's playing on a broken foot. But when it comes down to it, there are failures in the playoffs for the most part. I'll probably put 85 to 90% of it has been because they haven't gotten an average

goaltending. So many people out there like to make up other excuses. Ah, the core players went cold. Oh, this guy didn't play that well, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But when it comes down to it, the meat. of the issues was the goaltending. And if you fix that, this team, I think, can go on at least another long run.

I hope at least. I mean, I look back at the Rangers series. I think it was game six because it was at PPG. Louis Doming gave up a goal from the blue line. They took a shot. It hit his shoulder and bounced in behind them. That is the epitome of make a save. I'm not asking you to steal the game.

again, Penguins goalie, you don't need to steal games. It's nice if you can, but you don't have to. And that is just to make a save. Right. I mean, again, I'm not asking goalies here to be Dominic Hachick, Patrick Waugh, any of these all-time greats. Just give the team average goaltending, let the stars cook, let the bottom six play well, defense plays well,

and this team should be fine. That's just how I see it, at least. But I think that's all we have for this episode of the Locked-on Penguins podcast. Thank you all so much for taking the time to listen to slash watch this episode of the show. Pat and I will be back with another episode on Wednesday. We're already halfway through August, which is crazy. Training Camp is going to be here in the blink of an eye. Five weeks, whatever, how many it is.

The season's about two months away at this point. This is going to absolutely fly by. I know it's a dog days of summer, but really appreciate all of you keep listening to slash watching the show. And thank you all so much for tuning in. We'll be back with another episode on Wednesday.