Locked On Penguins - Daily Podcast On The Pittsburgh Penguins - Will the Penguins swing a big trade with a Western team? With Kelsey Surmacz!

Episode Date: February 18, 2025

We've got a rematch coming in the 4 Nations Face-Off between the United States and Canada playing for gold! With that, Kelsey Surmacz of The Hockey News returns to Locked On Penguins to discuss everything 4 Nations Face-Off with Hunter and Patrick. They start the show discussing U.S. vs Canada and what a great tournament Sidney Crosby is having before pivoting to how Erik Karlsson played for Team Sweden. They then discuss Rickard Rakell's tournament before closing the show with some big trade candidates that the Penguins could look at from the Anaheim Ducks.Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!SelectQuoteGet the right life insurance for you, for less, at SelectQuote.com/LOCKEDONNHL. Wonderful PistachiosGet snackin’ and get crackin’ with the snack that packs a protein punch. Visit WonderfulPistachios.com to learn more! FanDuelToday's episode is brought to you by FanDuel. Right now, new FanDuel customers can get ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY DOLLARS in Bonus Bets if your first FIVE DOLLAR bet wins! FANDUEL DISCLAIMER: 21+ in select states. First online real money wager only. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG (CO, IA, MD, MI, NJ, PA, IL, VA, WV), 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (WY, KS) or visit ksgamblinghelp.com (KS), 1-877-770-STOP (LA), 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Cindy Crosby and Mike Sullivan will face off in the Four Nations title game on Thursday, and Kelsey Sermax of the Hockey News is here to preview that game, plus dive into a whole bunch of other topics surrounding the Pittsburgh Penguins right after this. You're Locked-on Penguins, your daily podcast on the Pittsburgh Penguins, part of the Locked-on Podcast Network, your team every day. Hello and welcome back to another episode of the Locked-on Penguins podcast. I'm one of your host, Hunter Hodes. You can follow me on Twitter at Hunter Hodes.

Joined as always by my co-st, Patrick Camp, you can follow him on all social media platforms at Send him for Wet. And of course, you can follow the shows, Twitter, at L.O. Understore Penguins, of course, thank you all so much for making this your first listen slash watch of the day. We are free and available on all platforms. And finally, today's episode is brought to you by Fandul. Right now, new Fandle customers can get $150 in bonus bets if your first $5 bet wins. And joining us today, very special guest.

Kelsey Sermax of the hockey news. This is your second appearance on Locked on Penguins, and the first time went really well. And Pat and I figured, hey, Penguins still don't play until Saturday this week. Four Nations Face Off is going pretty well. While we bring on another guest for this week. And Kelsey, you do great work.

So again, thank you so much for coming on. We both really appreciate it. Yeah, thanks for having me back. Of course. And just diving into the Four Nations Face Off again, we'll get the rematch. As Pat likes to say, it's the main event this Thursday,

USA versus Canada at TV Garden. The ratings for that first matchup, 4.4 million viewers was the average. It peaked at over 5 million per ESPNPR. I'd like to think the ratings are going to be even higher for Thursday's championship game, considering everything that's going on with these two teams and how crazy that game was.

Kelsey, you've watched all these games firsthand, just like Pat and I have and a lot of other NHL fans. What do you think of the Four Nations face off this year as a whole? I think it's above and beyond what people expected. I'm not one of those people that ever expected an all-star game level of compete. I mean, I think that was pretty clear from the jump talking to the guys and especially talking to somebody like Sid. You know, these guys care a lot. And also, I mean, this is the first international play for the NHL nine years.

And you can tell that there's a lot of like pen up, you know, just frustrating. with not having been in an international place so long. So, yeah, it's going above and beyond my expectations. Every game's kind of been a little bit different, been exciting in a different way. So definitely, definitely looking forward to that rematch on Thursday. I think that's going to be going to be a fun one and one to remember for sure. Yeah, this is going to be huge. And I do think both when you consider the ratings that you've seen,

especially for USA Canada, I'm with Hunter and thinking that on Thursday night, it's going to be blown out of the water from what it was in the first matchup because the biggest thing I took away other than what a great game it was, was the fact that a bunch of people who I've never really seen talk hockey. They know about it. They're sports people. You know, you think of someone like Bill Simmons, he was all in on this. And it was NBA All-Star weekend.

And Bill Simmons is known as an NBA guy. And he's watching the Four Nations face off. on a Saturday night during NBA All-Star weekend. So that kind of tells you how much this is breaking through. And I think it's just a net positive for hockey in the NHL. And it's been to this point a complete success. But the thing that we're here for, we're not going to pontificate about what this means culturally,

what it means for the NHL, what it means for the growth of the sport. We've got to talk about the sport itself. So we know that a couple injuries on the USA side, a couple injuries and illnesses on the Canada side. What are you looking for when it comes to this championship game? Because we know how high octane and awesome that first game was. But now stakes are raised.

There's a gold medal on the line. There's bragging rights on the line. There's history on the line because we all remember 2010. USA is able to get the win in the preliminary round, but they can't get it done in the gold medal game. Thanks a lot, Crosby. We still haven't forgotten. So what are you looking for for both Team USA and Team Canada on Thursday when they go head to head for the championship?

Yeah, I'll start with Team Canada. So first of all, I mean, I think they're going to come out a lot better in this one. I think not having Kail McCar for the first one really hurt them. You know, in the first matchup against Team USA, they just couldn't generate much offensively. And credit to Team USA, I mean, they played really stingy defensive hockey. and that's kind of part of their identity. So they also played really physical. I think Canada is going to have a little bit better of a game plan going into this one,

you know, against that type of team. But also on the USA side, I mean, I think the injuries are going to play a huge part here because we don't know the status of Austin Matthews. We don't know the status of Charlie McAvoy, which, by the way, he was admitted to a hospital in Boston. there were reports by Frank Saravali that you know he was undergoing testing for for excuse me for an infection

so hopefully I mean they're both good to go for team USA because McAvoy was huge in that first matchup on on Saturday so I think on the USA side it really depends on the health of those guys because I think you take McAvoy, you take Matthews out of the

out of the equation that's you know, a huge blow to Team USA, especially with the way they're trying to play. But I kind of half expect Sid to come up pretty big in this one. I think he's probably going to be, you know, the guy leading the way for Team Canada again. He's led the tournament in points so far along with Zach Werenski. And just by the way, I mean, what an incredible feat for a 37-year-old in this tournament. He's the oldest guy there, leads the tournament and points in round robin play, you know, among guys that are a decade, his junior. So really impressive stuff from Sid.

But I actually, as far as a prediction, I predicted a 5-4 U.S. win in overtime, and I'm going to stick by that. So looking for an overtime game here. I think everybody wants to see that. three on three for the championship. I think that would be even more chaotic than just the regulation win, but I'd still sign up for it. I'm still going to stick with Team USA to win this as well, Pat. I think you're to say,

we both predicted the U.S. to win when this tournament got started. I don't think we're changing that now with the way this tournament has gone. But that's just me. Going back to what you said, Kelsey, about Sidney Crosby, I tweeted this yesterday. It feels like at times he can barely even lift his arm. Like it looks like that he's playing hurt, but he still has five points in three games. It goes to show how high of the level he's playing.

Pat and I were discussing this before we started recording today with you, like the hit that he had on Michael Granlin, and then after that to score the empty netter, dudes doing that with a banged up arm. It's just crazy. It goes to show how much this tournament means to him and how much playing for Team Canada continues to mean to him. I mean, he's not going to be playing for this country that much longer.

I mean, he's obviously going to play at the Olympics in 26. we'll have to see about the World Cup of Hockey in 28, outside shot at 2030 in the Olympics. But the end is near now with him playing for Team Canada and in the NHL as a whole. And to see him put it all on the line like this, it was awesome. Yeah, I mean, and I'm going to say this, Hunter, to your point, I am sticking with Team USA. But I know our Canadian friends and listeners are going to give me grief for this,

but I need to know the extent of the industry. until we get to Thursday because this isn't no-name players. You know that Austin Matthews is dealing with something. He's arguably the best goal score in hockey right now. The Kachuk brothers both have some bumps and bruises. We don't know what or how severe they are. And we saw what an impact they had on the game in the preliminary round, whether it was the fights, whether it was the fact that they were absolutely.

absolute menaces outside of that. And Kelsey brought it up. McAvoy was a huge part of their defensive effort against Team Canada in the first game. So it's not like we're talking about a couple guys who you barely noticed in that game. We're talking about some key contributors. And it's not an excuse because it's best on best. These are absolutely stacked teams. But when some guys at the top of your roster might not be at 100%, it can really affect

the outcome of the game. but still, I am going to stick with Team USA because for some reason, John Cooper thinks that Jordan Binnington is playing well. And I know that a coach is not going to come out and bury a goaltender, especially in a short tournament. You want him to have confidence. You want him to think he can do it. But you still look at that goaltending disparity.

And it feels like in this tournament, and Kelsey, I want your thoughts on this, that Connor Hellebuck has beaten the falls apart in big game allegations. Jordan Bennington, on the other hand, it kind of feels like Canada's winning in spite of him. Yeah, I would agree. And especially you look at the game against Finland yesterday. I mean, they gave up two goals and 23 seconds at the end there.

You know, I question Canada's goaltending situation as well, but I think I'm kind of still in the vein of keeping him in there just because he's the goaltender. They've been riding the whole time. I know I've seen some people say that maybe they should give Aiden Hilligo. But honestly, I think at this point, bringing in, you know, a cold goaltender isn't going to really do them any good. But Connor Hallibuck's been unbelievable. I mean, he's showing why he's the best goaltender in the world right now.

You know, he's making the timely saves. He's keeping everything close. He's not giving up very much. And, you know, he's not giving too many second chance opportunities either. His rebound control has been stellar, as it usually is. So it's tough for me to see the Canadians beating Hellebuck more than a few times. I think there might be, like I said, I predicted five to four. I think they might get a few past him.

And especially depending on the defensive situation, as you said, McAvoy is just a huge part of that. And the Cichuk brothers, too. I mean, Mike Sullivan said that he doesn't expect Brady Kachukes to be too serious. And Brady Kachukes said he expects Matthew Kachukes to play. So, you know, we'll see what happens with them. I would have to expect both of them to be in the lineup, which should help on the defensive side a little bit. But, you know, it's tough to beat Hellebuck.

And at the end of the day, goaltending is the ultimate, you know, X factor in these kinds of games, I think. Yeah, he's got to continue to beat the big game allegations, especially in this one with everything on the line. I think that both the Kachuk brothers will play on Thursday. I think Matthews will play as well. With not a boy out, that one definitely stings. But, hey, is that Quinn Hughes music calling here?

Are they going to somehow find a way to finangle him into the championship game? I think it's probably more unlikely than it is likely considering that he was banged up to start this tournament. But hey, you have to at least throw it out there a little bit, right? but I think that would do it for this first segment. Coming up in the second segment, we're going to discuss more about the Four Nations face off and get Kelsey's thoughts on how Ricard, Raquel, and especially Eric Carlson,

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SelectQuote.com slash locked on NHL. That's select quote. They shop, you save. All right. We're back here on this episode of the Lockdown Penguins podcast. I'm one of your host, Hunter Hodes. Join my host, Patrick Dam and special guest, Kelsey Sermex for today. So Kelsey, as I alluded to, I feel really bad for Team Sweden after this tournament.

I felt they played really well in all three of these games. They take Canada to overtime, Ricardo Rakel, even sets up Mika Zabenegen for a really glorious chance to beat Canada. Jordan Bennington gets over to make the save, probably the best save of the tournament from him, in my opinion. They then have a lead against Team Finland. they let that slip away. They lose an overtime, really nice goal by Mikhail Granlin there. And then I actually thought McHaw-Grelin had a really nice tournament for Team Finland in general, in my opinion. And then they were able to beat Team USA two to one on Monday.

So they get a win. They don't lose in regulation. They have two overtime losses, but they don't go to the championship game. Excuse me. But keeping with the penguin stock, I thought Eric Carlson was tremendous in this tournament. I felt like he and Matthias Ekholm formed a, a really great shutdown pairing where at calm, he's the guy that can do a lot of dirty work in the defensive zone.

And that's being the perfect partner for Carlson because you can unleash him in the offensive zone and let him do his thing there. And shout out to the Swedish coaching staff. They were able to unlock Carlson's ability in the offensive zone to a degree that we really haven't seen as much from Mike Sullivan. And I even tweeted this on Monday. I want Mike Sullivan and the Penguins coaching staff to sit down with Carlson,

turn on this film and be like, okay, what can we do to help the penguins going forward with this? Because we saw what you did here. Now it's time to bring over this success to the penguins. Because I don't think Mike Sullivan has done a good enough job with Carlson during his tenure here. So what are your thoughts on that, Kelsey? And how do you think he played at the tournament? Yeah, I agree. He was unbelievable.

I mean, I think he was the best defenseman in the tournament, maybe other than Zach Werenski, which, by the way, shout out to Zach Werenski. He had an incredible tournament. He's having an incredible year or two. He's overpoint per game. So I forgot to shout him out before, but Zach Wrenski was very, very, has been very good in this tournament. You know, Carlson was Sweden's best player. I don't think it's a stretch to say that at all. We really saw him, as you said, unlock that offensive, you know, potential in his game. that has been missing from Pittsburgh. And I do think, I mean, part of that, you know, he is playing with elite players. And it's not that he doesn't in Pittsburgh, most of his minutes in Pittsburgh, you know, or with Sidney Crosby. But it helps with the guys he's playing with

because he has guys who can, you know, finish the plays he's setting up, you know, just help him kind of unleash that. And also, but I kind of want to go back to what you said about at home. I think this is part of the issue with the Penguins is just that even though Marcus Pedersen and him were a pretty good pairing last season, the Penguins just really haven't had the type of defensive partner, I think, that Carlson needs. And I think at home in a perfect world is like a perfect defenseman for, for Carlson, because as you said, he kind of, he plays that stay at home game.

But I also think he's pretty good in the transition game as well, just like Carlson is. He plays pretty good on both sides of the puck. But just in, you know, relative to Carlson's positioning and just Carlson's decision-making, Echholm always seems to be in the right spot. And I just think with, you know, if a defenseman is playing with somebody like Eric Carlson, that's the kind of dynamic that you need because it really allows him to get to his game, not think too much. because I think when what we're seeing in Pittsburgh from Eric Carlson is a lot of times he's just overthinking things.

He's trying to do too much to, you know, overcompensate for maybe a lack of talent on the forward end, on the defensive end. So, you know, I think in Pittsburgh it'd be nice to see him kind of unlock some of those things because I'm not going to sit here and speculate. But I do think to some degree it's a systems issue with Carlson and Pittsburgh, too. but it was just really nice to see him break out in this kind of way. He was the leading score. He had three points, three games, and he really drove the bus on offense for Sweden in this tournament. He was absolutely fantastic,

and I know it has a lot of Penguins fans, including us on this show, kind of frustrated of what has happened with Carlson in his Pittsburgh tenure. But like you said, Kelsey, the thing that I have been kind of warning people of and making sure is out there is, listen, this is best on best. It's an entire talent pool from an entire country with no salary cap because I said it to Hunter on our Monday show.

I had somebody ask me, why is Team USA playing this well defensively under Sullivan and not the Penguins? And I went because their salary cap hit on Team USA is a shade under $200 million, which you're never going to get in the NHL. But the other thing, keeping it with Carlson, and this is a little bit of a left turn, sorry, Hunter, this just came to mind as Kelsey was dogging. I don't want to put the card ahead of the horse here, but like everything we're describing about the way he's playing with Eckholm, when he comes up and when he's back in Pittsburgh, every light in my brain is flashing, put Owen Pickering with Eric Carlson and see what happens, because is he at home?

No, Eckholm is a much better player, well more established. But you describe the way he plays. And in my brain, I'm thinking, that sounds like Owen Pickering once he finds a stride. So I think if Carlson remains a penguin, which I could see a world where he gets traded this offseason. But if he's still a penguin, I think that's Pickering spot to lose. I agree. And just to piggyback off of something you said to, I looked into this right before. 4-0 and Pickering was sent down.

It's crazy how low event he is in comparison to literally every other Penguins defensemen to. I don't have the exact stats in front of me. But basically, he's very low event, even in comparison with guys like Ryan Shay, Ryan Graves, who have similar ice time to him. There's just a lot less giveaways, a lot less takeaways. He's just keeping everything to a minimum. And I think that's kind of that low event defenseman is what you need alongside.

Carlson. So I would agree with you. I think Pickering's the guy there for now. Yeah. And I'll be curious to see if he does come up after the deadline because, Kelsey, I mean, I think you expect Grizzlik to be gone in the next few weeks. I would say the same about Beavillier. We'll have to see on other players on their roster. But I think at the very least, those two will get moved over the next few weeks. And then that will open up another spot on the left side. And they could call a picturing, but they also, I can see a world where they leave him down there to trying keep building Wilkesbury towards this potential long playoff front. because Wilkesbury is one of the top teams in the HL this year,

and they continue to play really, really well. Getting to Rekyll, before we go to our final segment, Kelsey, I also felt he played really well in the two games. Yeah, I know he didn't play against Team USA on Monday, but I felt like he was forechecking really well, as I said on Monday. He was setting up a lot of quality chances, getting quality chances of his own, kind of picking up right where he left off with the Penguins, honestly.

And obviously, I know he's playing on a more stacked team now. He was playing a lot with Willie Nealander, which Pat and I said, before the tournament started, that was a potential to be a really fun line. And it was like they were generating offense that Benajad scored on that line. And you saw him and Raquel had a cool celebration together. I felt like he had a really good tournament, especially against Canada in that first game. I felt like he was one of Sweden's best three players in that game.

Yeah, absolutely. And that screen, you know, in the first game against Canada was awesome. And we've seen him do that in Pittsburgh, too. I mean, I think an underrated part of Rekyllis. Hell's game is just his ability to distract goaltenders. I mean, his ability in front of the net, he has really good deflection ability. He didn't deflect it there, but he kind of drew Gustafsons eye enough to kind of just follow him just, or not Gustavson.

Oh, my gosh. Bennington. Sorry, but he drew Bennington's eye enough, just enough to, just enough to, kind of provide that screen and open the way for that goal. So that was awesome. He also did some really good work down low and along the walls in that game, which I mean, we see consistently from him in Pittsburgh as well. And he didn't play in that last game because of illness, which was released by Team Sweden. But, you know, I mean, I think he didn't produce to the level I expected him to in this tournament

just because of his placement on the first line and with Willie Nealander. but I mean, Raquel's a good player on his own. And I think this is kind of something, I mean, I'm not, I'm not comparing him to Jake Gensel. Jake Gensel's the better player. We heard for years in Pittsburgh about how Jake Gensel is a product of Crosby and et cetera, et cetera. I mean, I think we're seeing that Raquel actually has the ability to generate a little

bit on his own. And, you know, that isn't something historically in his career that he's been able to do to a high degree, but he was doing a lot of little things during that tournament. He was also very physical. He played with a lot of physicality. Again, something we see with the penguins, but all those little things added up to, you know, success for Sweden in his minutes.

So I was impressed with the way he played, and I think, you know, give him somebody like Sid, who can set him up to finish those plays. He scores a lot, but he, I mean, he had a good, couple opportunities of his own, too. He just didn't finish. So definitely a good showing from Raquel. And you hope that he can kind of make the Olympic team without any issue next year.

I would assume. He can keep up this level of play. I definitely think Sweden's going to learn from their mistake going into this tournament that he should be on the roster and not an injury replacement. He really earned his keep. The way I described him on an earlier episode this week is I think he's better Chris Kunitz. He plays a very similar style game, high octane, physical, not afraid to go to the dirty areas, has what I always say. A talent in itself is being able to play with elite players

because you have to keep up and think the game on that level. And we've seen the wake of bodies who have been the quote unquote winger for Sid that just didn't work out. And then you add in, I think he has a better shot than Chris Kunitz. You put all that together, very similar style player. So I loved his game in the tournament. And I think kind of like Carlson, he has really upped his value and his reputation in the NHL for going into the off season, going into the trade deadline. We'll see what happens with him. But it has been a marvelous campaign for Ricard Raquel. I agree. And I think we're probably going to touch on that in the final segment. We'll get Kelsey's thoughts on what they should do with Raquel, other Penguins-related news. And also actually

breaking news right now, Quinn Hughes is coming to Team USA for Thursday's game. So just wanted to break that to everyone. Mike Sullivan just announced Quinn Hughes is coming to Team USA. That's going to be a lot of fun on Thursday. I can't wait because he's been the best defenseman on the planet this year in the league. And it's nice that he's a lot more healthy right now compared to where he was about a week and a half ago. But that would do it for the second segment. Coming up in the final segment, we're going to discuss Kelsey's thoughts on what the penguins should do with Raquel,

any other moves they should make. And also something interesting to keep an eye on with the ducks continuing to scout Wilkesbury for the last week or so. We're going to get Kelsey's thoughts on that. But before he gets that, we got to tell you all about our final sponsor, and that is Fandall. When the game tips off, the NBA action is just getting started, and there is no better place to get in on it than Fandle, America's number one sportsbook. With Fandle, you can play slide bets throughout the game.

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All right, we're back here on this episode of the Lockdown Penguins podcast. I'm one of your host, Hunter Hodes, joined by my co-ist Patrick Dam. So Kelsey, we've had this discussion about Raquel it feels like for the last couple weeks, especially as his value continues to get higher and higher and higher as each passing day goes on with the season that he's having. I keep saying on the show, I only move him if you get a King's Ransom. Are you in that same category as well? Yes, absolutely.

I think, you know, this is one of those situations that the Penguins have to be very calculated about because Raquel does have three years left on his deal. And I mean, yes, that makes him very marketable, especially with the salary cap going up. That $5 million cap hit is going to look really good to some teams for a 30 plus goal scorer, and especially those contending teams that really need a jolt on their power play or just on the right side in general or left side. I mean, it's positional versatility helps too.

So it's one of those things. He's, I think at this point, obviously he's the penguin's best trade asset. Sorry, Colorado, Sidney Crosby is never leaving. But he's the best penguin's best trade asset. So they have to be calculated about how they go about this because he's not somebody you just want to sell off at the deadline to the highest bidder, right? I mean, this is a guy who's having a career year. And, you know, even if you say you wait until summer, I mean, another thing to be considered here is that Kyle Dubus has kind of said that he's willing to move that conditional first round pick. and you can picture kind of where that could go in the summer,

potentially, especially, you know, depending on where that pick lies, because if you package Ricard Raquel and that conditional first round pick, you can get a pretty good return for that. So, I mean, I think I'm in the camp of at least wait till summer, unless there's a deal that absolutely blows Dubas away and you can't pass it up. You know, I think that's the thing because I think in this kind of situation, You need NHL talent in return for Raquel.

I don't think this is a situation where they're going to be trading him for more picks. They're just going to be trading him for futures-oriented trade. I mean, Kyle Dubus has made it clear that they're rebuilding on the fly. And, you know, you have a couple options with Raquel there. Do they keep him into next season just to see where this team's at and see if he can be a part of that bridge to, you know, their new crop of young players? do they deal him for that elite young player that Dubus has been talking about? You know, I think this situation is tricky because as valuable as Raquel is for a contending team at 5 million,

he could be just as valuable for the penguins as soon as next season, if all goes right, but even in that season after. So this is something they really have to go about in a calculated way. They're not just going to throw them away for the best deal at the deadline or for a few years. This is definitely going to be something that they're going to be very careful about and make sure they get the return that they want. That's the camp that I've been in is wait till the summer one. You don't want to have a second year in a row where you trade away Crosby's best winger. Even if this team is going nowhere, you at the very least want to send that message to Crosby that, yes, we are going to take care of you.

But then there's also the prospect of you've got the massive rise in the salary cap. a very good UFA class this summer, especially at Forward, where you look at some of the money these guys are going to command, Ricard Raquel becomes a very intriguing option at $5 million, rather than having to spend $7,8,9 plus million in multiple years on a guy when you can just trade some assets to get Ricard Raquel. But you brought up the conditional first that they have, and obviously everything else.

I don't want you to burn the article. I want people to go to the hockey news and read it. So I don't want you to read all of it to us here. But you had a very good piece yesterday on the hockey news about the penguins and the ducks being potential trade partners. And there's a part of me that about a year ago, I was like, listen, guys, we're wishcasting here. This is playing NHL 25 and mashing the push trade through button. but now all of a sudden, it does feel like there's almost an inevitability to the ducks and the penguins being trading partners here.

And I kind of want you to give us a quick rundown here of why you think this is and who, if maybe not everybody, but who they could target from the ducks in a trade. Yeah. So, I mean, I think there's a couple things here. Well, first of all, I do want to point out that as Hunter kind of alluded to this earlier, but Wilkesbury Scranton has been heavily scouted by the Ducks, especially over this Four Nations break. It is worth noting that, you know,

scouts don't have too much better to do other than to go to H.L games while the NHL is playing best on best competition. So, I mean, take this all with a grain of salt. Scouts are everywhere at H.L. games right now. But it is mildly interesting that the Ducks keep showing up for the Penguins. And it kind of indicates that the things, there's maybe some interest there, some mutual interest. I'm looking at a couple players.

So obviously, I mean, if you're looking at the penguins right now, their biggest needs are left defense and I think another center. I think we're reaching the point where they need to start thinking about maybe getting a second line center because Malkin is entering the final year of his contract. And, you know, I'm definitely not somebody who's saying they need. to move Malk into the wing. But, you know, in his last season, or what is presumed to be his last season and just where his career is at right now, that might not be the worst thing if the penguins can get,

you know, an elite young center. And the ducks have a couple of those high upside guys. Now, I know Trevor Zegers is a popular name. I'd be a little worried with his injury history and just, you know, his lack of production the last couple seasons probably related to that. He's only played, I think, 63 games over the past two seasons. So, you know, you kind of, and his cap hits five, what, $5.75 million.

So I think that's somebody, I'm not necessarily throwing a first round pick for him, but if you can get a nice, you know, a good package for Zegers, that's somebody I'm looking at if I'm Kyle Dubas. I'm looking at some of their young defensemen. If the Ducks have something, they definitely have a lot of young defensemen. and actually a surplus of them, and they still have a couple prospects on the horizon, too. Minchikov is obviously a really big name,

and somebody that I think is not getting enough attention necessarily on the trade block, only because, as I said, they have a couple guys that are outperforming him this season. He is only 21 years old. It's going to cost a lot to move him, I think. But I think he's somebody you take a chance on. He showed a lot in his rookie season. season last year. You know, he has enough size to probably develop more of a physical game and

more of a two-way game. So I'm curious to see if the penguins can kind of develop him. And if he can become, you know, one of those top four lefty guys, because as of right now, he's kind of blocked by a couple other younger guys that are outperforming him in Anaheim. So I would keep an eye on that. He's somebody I'd give up a first for if I'm dubious. But I think, think the big interesting name, potentially interesting name, is Mason McTavish. Because if you're the ducks, obviously you want to keep this guy. Because he has a really solid future ahead of him, I think. But if you have your coach calling you a third-line player, and, you know, just, I don't have

any inside information here, but there seems to be a little bit of a feeling that there's not necessarily a commitment for him to stay in Anaheim. So, you know, if the ducks kind of feel that on the horizon and they don't think they're going to be able to lock up this guy long term, I think he's someone you sell right now for a team that's rebuilding still and get as much as you can for him right now to make sure that that doesn't hamper, you know, their rebuild effort. So he's a guy I keep an eye on. If they can get somebody like him, he,

can be a second line center for this team. And just a side note too, just real quick, I could kind of see, because McTavish is a really a high IQ player. He plays physical. He goes to the net. He has a wicked shot, too, a wicked one-timer that would be really good for the Penguin's power play. I could see him thriving alongside another high IQ playmaker, like Rucker McGority, just kind

of looking ahead a little bit. I could see that being a really lethal combination. So yeah, those are those are the three guys I'm looking at, but they definitely have a few others to keep an eye on as well. Yeah, we sure love to see the mix together in Pittsburgh, but that was, I couldn't let that pass without making that stupid pun. Sorry. That's okay, Pat. I don't mind. I probably interrupted you at the start there.

That's the second time I did that during today's show. So I apologize on that. But yeah, Mintagov would be the one that I would target from their back end. McTavish would be a lot of fun. I would trade the conditional first for him, in my opinion. He can help you now well into the future. He'll get a pretty big pay raise, but the cap's going up. They're still going to have a boatload of cap space these next couple of years.

So I will be totally okay with that. That's someone who could really make a high impact for you as you usher in this new wave of penguins hockey. But just to end the show, Neil Benstrom and Yowal Blumquist have been called back up to the penguins. Tristan Jari goes down to Wilkesbury. There were so many people, Kelsey, that freaked out about this about a couple weeks ago. We don't really understood why. Jari was just kind of getting a vacation. wasn't going to be getting games up here in Pittsburgh during the break.

Now he goes back down to Wilkesbury. He'll be getting some games down there with Philip Larson, now that he's back healthy and then Mershov, he'll be in Wheeling. So very expected news here, I think, for the Penguins. But Patrick Kelsey, do you have anything else to add here before we wrap up? No, good for me, Kelsey, appreciate you coming back on again. And let everybody know where they can find you, what you're working on,

and anything you want to plug. Yeah, absolutely. So you can find me on the. Hockey News Penguins website. I write there daily, so check that out. I also have a podcast called Pucks and that you can check that out as well. So yeah, those are the two main things. And over at Pucks and that, me and Hannah Kirkkell, who writes for Vegas hockey now.

She's doing a lot of good work, too. So I just wanted to give her a quick shout. But yeah, Hockey News, Penguins, find me there. And you can find me on X at Kelsey underscore Cermots 4. Same thing on Blue Sky without the underscore. Yep, Kelsey does great work. Canada does great work. And Kelsey, once again, thank you so much for coming on today's episode.

We both really appreciate it. And Pat and I will be back with another show for you all on Wednesday to get you all set for the rest of the week with the Four Nations. Do Warrior Helmint, Pat, I think we can still do a Warrior Helmet. Even though the Penguins haven't been playing, I think we can kind of sneak one in there for the Four Nations, maybe give one to Mike Sullivan, Ricard Raquel, Eric Carlson. We'll figure that out going into Wednesday. I think we might have some candidates for our weekly MVP. I think so.

Just a few. Don't look at that Sidney Crosby guy either. Of course. Yeah, I think he's probably the favorite right now if I had the guess. But yeah, we'll get to that on the Wednesday episode.

But again, thank you all so much for tuning in. We appreciate it. We'll be back on Wednesday.