Locked On Titans - Daily Podcast On The Tennessee Titans - Locked on Titans: Pass rushing prospects with Jon Ledyard

Episode Date: April 4, 2018

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Welcome in to another edition of Locked on Titans. I'm Jimmy Morris, joined as always by Terry Lambert. Terry, how are you tonight? Doing pretty good, dodging the storms out here, so if there's any technical difficulties, we do apologize for that. Yeah, so we're recording this on Tuesday night, and if you're in Mill, Tennessee, you know there's storms rolling through, so we'll hopefully be able to dodge that long enough to get this in. We are joined tonight by John Ledyard, NDT Scouting. We're going to get kind of his assessment of Titans' needs and talk a little edge rusher with him here in just a second. Before we do that, as always, remind you, Terry and I cover the

Titans for musicmyracles.com, part of SB Nation, so you can check us out there. Follow us on Twitter. I am at jmorphsmcm. Terry is at tlambert fb follow the podcast at locked on titans you can get to the podcast itunes stitcher spotify wherever you get your podcast you can find us there so without further ado we will bring in john ledyard john how are you tonight hey i'm great guys thanks so much for having me also dodging the storms out here we got

them rolling through uh right just outside of pittsburgh pa as well so must be all across the east coast right now gotcha yeah absolutely good time so um you can follow john on twitter at lead yard nfl draft so check him out a lot of good stuff that he has and the ndt scouting stuff as well all right so we talked uh i mean i it was a month six weeks ago whatever it whatever it was, before free agency started. And we're heavy on running back at that point. Obviously, the Titans have signed Deion Lewis since then. So I'm not, I mean, I think they'll probably still draft a running back at some point in this draft, but I don't think it'll be on the first two days.

So kind of, you know, from an outsider's perspective, give us your thoughts on what the Titans' biggest needs are and kind of where you see them going in the first couple days of draft that Dion Lewis pick was perfect because it's a compliment to Derek Henry in a lot of ways because he is more of an accomplished receiver type of back and that's where Henry's concern is but not necessarily in the running style the way people think it is I think we talked about this last time their compliment their styles are going to be more similar than people think you. Lewis is a very

physical runner, and he probably doesn't get enough credit for that. Henry, just because of his size, probably gets too much credit for being a physical runner. So the truth is somewhere in the middle with both of those guys. I think they win with their feet, they win with their eyes, they win with their mental preparation in terms of being able to see and process things very quickly as runners. That's where I'm looking for both those guys to make an impact. I love the signing of Lewis there. It suggests to me the Titans are going to be kind of spread out. They've got the personnel for it, a wide receiver already. I don't know that they need to make a ton of additions there, really. They seem content to roll with this offensive

line. That was the big question for me. Is Josh Klein a guy they want to bring back? Is Quinn Spain the type of player that's going to fit in what Matt LaFleur wants to do? It looks like he's got his guys. Those are the five he's going to roll with. So offensive side of the ball, thumbs up. This group has done what they need to do. It's very competitive, very talented across the board. Now they're finally going to be in an offense, I think, that lets them achieve what they need to achieve as a unit. That's really good signs.

Defense is where they need to focus in this draft. I'd focus almost exclusively on defense if I were the Titans. You know, you look at the interior, and I think getting a guy to play next to Jarrell Casey should be a priority. Bringing back Daquan Jones is a pretty good move. I like Austin Johnson as well, but those guys aren't going to give you a ton of juice. Maybe a high-impact player, if they're using a high-value pick there to play next to Casey, or maybe you go the rotational route and you take a guy like Derek Nottie, who's going to be a two-down guy and be a run-plugger inside as a nose tackle. Obviously, linebackers are needed for this team. They lost Avery Williamson, Wesley Wigert, a good player for sure.

Aging, I think that might be the top priority for Tennessee, if I were just guessing, kind of where their head's at and the positions they're looking to address. But edge pass rushers, the position of high value. I think Derek Morgan and Brian Arakpo have done everything they can with this Titans group, but they're just not the type of guys that are going to win 1v1 a lot as pass rushers at this point in their careers, especially. Both good guys, you want to have them on your roster. It's time to get a young guy in here to start developing. They did that

with Kevin Dodd. They tried to do it with Kevin Dodd. He hasn't stayed healthy and really hasn't shown that much promise either. They have some young guys that are interesting. Caraway, Ochi, Aaron Wallace on the roster. Guys that have maybe intrigued at some point in their college tenure, but I don't think any of those guys are the answer i don't think any of them are locks to make the roster any of those guys are the future uh and i think that that's the other position i think could be a priority in the first round so one of those two spots maybe for tennessee and they may be kind of quiet quiet benefactors of the rams trade that just went down because the rams were probably looking at edge and at linebacker and now they're out of the way at number 23.

And the Patriots could look there too, but more than likely the Patriots could be packaging their picks to move up, and that could leave a linebacker or an edge defender like a Josh Sweat or maybe a Marcus Davenport to fall right in the laps of the Titans. So I think they were quietly kind of benefactors of the fact that the Rams moved out of the first round and traded for Brandon Cooks. I agree with your assessment there. I've been banging the drum to take an edge rusher really all draft season.

They've just got to figure out what their next step is there with Arakpo and Morgan's contract expiring after this coming season. So the guy that seems to be kind of the mock draft darling at 25 is Harold Landry. I don't think he's going to be there. Maybe you can tell me differently. What's the deal with Big Draft and Harold Landry? Why does there seem to be a disconnect there? I see a really athletic pass rusher,

and I know those don't last very long on draft day. So what's the deal there? Why is there a lack of hype with Landry? Yeah, I don't know what it is either. I don't know whether it's just the fact that he was banged up some of last year and the luster wore off a little bit. And so maybe it's not as interesting right now, but I fully think the NFL is still crazy about him. I don't see why. I think he's a lock to go in the top 15. That's why I didn't even mention him. And obviously if he's there, that's unbelievable. But I really don't think there's a chance I think he's going top 15 I think that he's a highly

athletic explosive bendy pass rusher he has the traits that you absolutely sell the farm for to acquire at the position this isn't a great edge defender class at all you know I think Bradley Chubb and he are the top guys I don't think I think Josh Fett has a ton of potential as well after that I really think it falls off you know I like Kimoko Ture but there's definitely injury concerns there to me Marcus Davenport is a guy that needs a lot of work he's a project for sure so this is very much an uncertain edge class after those first two or three guys if you're in a position to land Harold Landry and you need a pass rusher I mean he really shouldn't get out of the top 10 he won't get far into the teens I don't think if he makes it that far so i really think

that he yeah he has all the traits the teams typically do covet at the position i know there hasn't been necessarily a ton of buzz about him leading up to the process that usually does happen with one or two guys usually it isn't at the edge defender position though so i don't know if the recent injury or you know playing you haven't coming off a down you're kind of something to do with it but he he's gonna go top 15 in the class, and he's going to be one of the more coveted guys, I think, on draft day. So if I heard you right there, you do have Sweat as your number three edge guy in this class. How big is the drop-off from Landry to him, and then is the big drop-off from Sweat to whoever you have at number four?

Yeah, I think that the big thing with Sweat is more just how quickly does he acclimate to playing in the NFL in his actual position because Florida State moved him all over. I mean, they play him at three technique. They play him at four-eye technique. They just had all kinds of situations with him where they put him in all kinds of situations where he didn't maximize his best traits. His best traits are explosiveness, his ability to get off the ball, his ability to bend the edge.

He's got really good hand usage as a pass rusher at the top of the arc. He's a polished run defender, too. He's ready to go from that standpoint. So he'll get billed as raw. I don't think he's raw. I think that there's a couple steps he needs to take as a pass rusher still to employ power moves, to get counter moves working, to get back inside of tackles.

There's things he can learn for sure, but he's a guy that's ready to play right away. He can contribute right away. Like I said, a plus run defender. He knows what he's doing from a mental processing standpoint. You watch unblocked situations. He steps down, replaces the tackle's feet, looks for the puller. He's a sharp kid. He knows what he's doing. He plays really hard, really physical. I really think he's a great talent. To be honest, it wouldn't shock me if Josh Sweat ends up better than Brian Arakpo. I'm sorry, not Brian Arakpo. If he ends up better than Bradley Chubb or Harold Landry, it really wouldn't blow me away.

He's that rare of an athlete with those kind of physical tools and the necessary violence required to play the position that I think he really does have all the traits. I would definitely take Josh Sweat in the first round of this class. No question. He would be one of the top guys on the board for me if I were Tennessee because he fits. He fits what they're looking for defensively. He fits what Mike Vrabel wants to do. He can play with his hand down. He can stand up. He moved all around. He loves those versatile type of players. I mean, he just had, what, three of them in Houston. He hails from New England where he was used in a versatile fashion. This is exactly his type of player. I think that Joshua would make a ton of sense there.

Plus, those little things I talked about as a pass rusher, he now has the opportunity to learn from guys like Derek Morgan and Brian Arakpo, veterans of the game who really are guys that have had to rely more on technique than athleticism in terms of being able to win. They're the perfect guys to work with Sweat and bring him along, teach him how to win as technically as he is he does athletically i think he combines all that i think we're talking about a really scary guy the one concern he had the knee in the past the all the reports are that the medicals were great at the combine if that's true and there's really no concerns with them he 100 should go in the first round of this year's draft

kind of the other guy remaining uh really that's an option for the Titans at 25, is Sam Hubbard. And they've been connected. They've got a couple of Ohio State connections now on the staff. He's a guy that I struggle with. He might be a good number two, maybe a rotational guy. I don't think he's ever that one. What are your thoughts on Hubbard?

Is he athletic enough to be a real game-changer at the next level? No, he's not athletic enough, but he's going to be a really good player no matter where he goes. It's kind of one of those things with Sam Hubbard. He's going to get efforts. People have compared him to Ryan Kerrigan. He doesn't have the technique and suddenness to his pass rush game that Kerrigan has, but his vision is really good as a pass rusher that's an underrated trade of pass rushers i

think he can get back inside of tackles he finds the quickest path to the quarterback he's relentless he's not super explosive he's not super bendy his testing implied that he was both of those things but he's really not on tape and that's okay um you know he's also too heavy right now you know he came into 270 to the combine you know what i don't think it's not bad weight at um you know he's also too heavy right now you know he came into 270 to the combine you know and i don't think it's not bad weight at all he's he's jacked he's extremely hard worker but he just doesn't need to be that heavy he can cut down to 255 i think and hopefully get more explosive and perhaps even you know he ran a 496 or something at his pro day that's you know that was the only part of his workout it was like everything else in his workout was great

that part was absolutely abysmal so you know why he switched from safety now to defensive end when he was at Ohio State, because he just isn't fast. And you could tell on tape he wasn't fast. It was just the other part of the testing that really was surprising. But yeah, I don't think he's a high-end athlete. He's probably the best run defender, though, in the draft at the position. I mean, he is just really, really sound against the run. His fits, he gets off blocks, his technique.

He's almost the opposite of what you'd expect him to be. If you were told that a kid switched positions from safety to defensive end, not really until he was in his second year at Ohio State, and only had started like 20-something, 22 games, I think, he started at defensive end, you would say, okay, he's raw, but he's probably got tons of athletic potential coming from a position like that. He's actually totally the opposite. He's pretty much a finished product. He's really good with his hands he's really developed his mental

processing he plays like he's played defensive in his entire life he just doesn't have a lot of upside i don't think so you know i think you're going to get very safe guy with sam hubbard you know he's the kind of guy that will start for a long time be great in the locker room really hard working dude um who they can't say enough good things about him in ohio state they really can't he's going to win over a lot of teams because of that i mean if ryan anderson who's like a shell of what sam hudbert is if he went and date round two last year hubbard's gonna go around too as well so you know i think that he's going to be a really solid player in the nfl i just don't think that there is that high end upside you're not getting the same type of impact with him as you're

going to get it with a guy like josh sweat or harold landry or bradley job all right coming up we continue our conversation with john ledyard all right again we are joined by john ledyard of ndt scouting you can follow him on twitter at ledyard nfl draft is that that right yep you got it all right um all right uh arden key is a guy that's a really interesting prospect in this draft obviously the the talent is undeniable uh all kinds of other issues swirling around him where do you think he ultimately lands in this draft i think arden key goes day three but there is always the possibility that a team falls in love and takes him day two um i just think that those teams are going to be few and far between this isn't a guy with one or two red flags this is a guy with multiple red flags i've heard about stuff

at lsu not great the weight issues fluctuate i mean he told me he was a 280 and then he was a 238 at the combine. I don't know what's going on there. He leaves the program. There's just so many concerns. Does he love the game? On tape this past year, dude looked like he didn't care half the time. He was the guy that played with fire in the past. There's a lot of issues. I'm not going to pretend like I know everything. I don't know the reason for all the things that have happened with Key and the drama that's kind of ensnared him throughout his entire time at LSU. Teams are going to have to sort through that.

What I know, no way would I take him in the first three rounds. There is potential there, but even when you look at his athletic testing, guys, weight adjust his numbers, and they're poor, poor at best. So what is the upside really here? We don't know what he is at a proper playing weight you know 238 is not a proper playing weight um especially for a guy that long and lanky you know the profile and his size his his really his dimensions as a player you know in terms of his height the lack of density that he has because he is 238 it's not good man i mean

there's not a lot of successful players with a frame like his uh especially considering all the other issues on top of it so there's just too many concerns too many red flags there for me with key when he's at his absolute best yeah he's explosive enough that i would take a chance on him um i still think he has some issues with pad level he's not the bendiest guy at the top of the arc he does play with better power than you'd expect for a guy that lanky um but like i said that on top of all the other things there's the fact that you have to develop him i think in his game all around that's all you're talking about investing a lot in a guy who probably is for sure not going to be a first or second round pick um i would take it i would take a day three flyer on him and see what he can at that point in the

draft take all the chances you want i don't care most of those guys don't make a roster anyway and certainly don't make a long-term impact you know you're getting around five and he's still there sure absolutely take a chance on him you know but to me i just i think there's just too much risk with key and and the reward even if he pays off it just isn't that great enough all right last question for me i got the the Titans have been connected to quite a bit with visits and stuff, Dorrance Armstrong out of Kansas. Not a lot of Kansas Jayhawk football looking on the TV. Tell us what he does well

and kind of give us a projection of where he'll come off the board. Day three for sure is where he'll come off the board. I feel pretty confident that you know he he had an okay three cone uh he came in heavier than people thought he would which was good um his workout was really odd because he ran so poorly in the 40 i mean almost the four nines uh range which was really not good at all for his position um even when you weight adjust it it's kind of even worse considering how he matches up with other edge defenders.

But I do think there was potential in his jumps and his bend. I think he does have some bend. I just don't think that he is with it enough as a pass rusher and as a processor to kind of use his gifts to the best of their ability. And I also wonder how explosive is he. The false steps are something that you see from him that has to be worked out of his game there's something there with Dorrance Armstrong but I wouldn't test it in the top 100 I think that there's still a ways to go with him in this game and the worst part about it probably is that he was much worse this past

season than even the year before and even the year before there were questions it was more developmental potential and then none of that really took steps. And when you have a guy that kind of declines during his time in college, it does seem to at least historically, I think based on similar players that I've seen seem to suggest that it will be harder for him to then make that leap once he gets to a higher level of competition, since he wasn't able to make it in college football with a lot less expectations against lesser competition. Now that he's in the nfl i think that does become a little bit tougher you know the situation is important you know kansas i think he does have the opportunity to learn some better things in the nfl um but it's it's it's tough you don't see prospects that are

as far off as he is sometimes developing a real studs at the nfl level can you make an impact and be a guy that that contributes to a team i think he has a shot at that for sure um is he a guy that i would take you know top 75 top 60 whatever it might be i don't think i'd invest that level of a pick in doran's armstrong all right last question from me uh we talked about harold leonard at the beginning you're john robinson you're sitting there on draft day, 15, 16, 17, come off the board. You're sitting there. Harold Leonard is still there. Is that a point where you would be willing to give up?

I mean, let's say you give him 25 and your second-round pick, if that's what it came to. I haven't looked at the value or anything on that. But, I mean, is he that good with what the Titans – just look at the whole picture, what the Titans have. Is that a move you'd be willing to make? Is he a guy they can plug in and he can make an immediate impact? I think he is, yeah.

I think I'd pull the trigger for that. It's an interesting situation. I hadn't really thought about it for Tennessee. But I think I would because you don't have a lot of needs if you're Tennessee. I really don't think you do. And I think edge pass rushers, after quarterback, that's the position I'm trying to get. So I would try and make a move for him i really would you know if you if it takes your second it takes your second you know you can find a linebacker in round three or sign

a guy whatever it might be to play i think that they've done enough you know they've done some things to make sure their secondary is better at least on paper you know they can survive with the defensive line that they have um you know again again you can find guys maybe late you can find a nose tackle later in the draft if you need one you know linebacker would be the other concern but this isn't a team with a ton of holes they've got some real some guys they hope are legit studs in the secondary you know they've got their top three corners in place now they signed cyprian kevin byard's an absolute star that doesn't get enough credit for how much of a star he is um so i there's a lot of answers on this team there's more answers than people think i think i said this last time when i was on the show with you guys i think the titans

are poised and not just because maliflor is there but i think they really are poised to be this year's this upcoming year's rams like team you know i mean in multiple ways there's so many similarities but you know first time head coach it's a younger guy in variable you got an offensive coordinator that worked with um thatay and with the Rams, and then you've got your veteran defensive coordinator that's an older guy that's had a ton of success before, but you need that type of presence on your roster. It's so similar to the way that the Rams kind of built things

from a staff perspective, but then also the way they went out and kind of quietly attacked the offseason and really filled the needs that they thought they had and assigned really good players to fill certain roles. i think this is a big bounce back year for mariotta i think that this team's really kind of poised and if you get a guy like that who can be and i think landry if he's fully healthy can step in right away and be a high impact pass rusher in terms of production that's perfect because you landry's game isn't a finished product again he likes sweat he can learn counter moves and the more technical parts how to use his hands how to use power moves he can learn that stuff from arakbo and and from

derrick morgan he can complement them perfectly he can push kevin dodd that's the type of player they need on this roster so i would i would make the move if it required giving up your second i'd be fine with that i'd make move to go try and get a guy that can change the game for that defense sounds good all right John Ledyard again. Follow him at LedyardNFLDraft. Anything else you want to plug while you're here? Nope, just checking out Locked on NFL Draft. Trevor Sycamore and I, five days a week.

We talk lots of NFL Draft. We have a lot of fun with the show, too. So, yeah, definitely appreciate you guys having me on and getting me to say my piece about the Titans. They're a fun team to evaluate right now. I don't think they're getting talked about enough, but it's a good time to be a Tennessee Titans football fan. Absolutely.

Well, yeah, again, we appreciate you jumping on with us. All right, real quick before we wrap up this episode of Locked on Titans, it just came across on Twitter from Adam Schefter that Jordan Matthews will be visiting the Tennessee Titans. I'm going to let Terry have the floor here because that was something that – that was a name that he mentioned way back in the beginning when we were just kind of getting into the free agency process. Yeah, it's just – I didn't think they could go into the offseason

or to the season with just Corey Davis, Taylor Taylor, Tajay Sharp. There's a lot of inexperience there. You know, you bring in a guy like Matthews, he's a lot of inexperience there you know you bring in a guy like Matthews he's at least been around so you're talking about Rashard Matthews being the only guy on the roster with virtually anything outside of a year

experience in the NFL Jordan Matthews, guy from Nashville guy that makes a lot of sense, played at Vanderbilt he's going to come cheap a guy that can give you some good reps and you know be be the new harry douglas uh if you will but you know a lot better than harry douglas harry douglas is awful uh but yeah i think there's some there's still some upside there i think he's still like 25 26 so uh this isn't just going out and signing a 30-year-old receiver or anything.

The Titans haven't signed him yet or anything like that. It's just a visit. But, yeah, it's a move that I had circled about a month ago, so we'll see what happens there. Yeah, so like you said, he's an interesting guy, and if you're giving him the bar of Harry Douglas, I mean, that's a pretty low bar. So he can come in and he will yeah i mean he's only been in the league five years uh like you said so i mean he's not a guy he's a guy that maybe hasn't um i mean he had a couple really good

years in philadelphia so i mean a guy that i mean i just remember watching him play at vanderbilt and you know he was all they had and he still found a way to get open. They'd get the ball to him. It hadn't necessarily translated that much in the NFL, but again, like you said, there's a veteran depth issue there. He's the guy that makes a lot of sense. Like you said, he's going to be cheap. You're going to probably get him on a one- or two-year deal

and not have to give him a ton of money. Comes in and he's a guy that can compete for slot reps with the Taewon Taylor, with Todd Jay Sharp, whoever it may be, and just would make the overall depth of this wide receiver group better. Again, that doesn't mean the Titans are going to sign him. We don't know that or not, but we do know that he is scheduled to visit here. And a guy that from a fit standpoint makes a lot of sense. So keep an eye on that.

Tomorrow is the big uniform reveal. So probably when you're listening to this, it's today because we're recording this Tuesday night. So we'll hit another episode on Wednesday night, kind of recapping that, giving our thoughts on the uniforms. Obviously there's been the leaked stuff and all that stuff, so we'll see if that's actually what it turns out to be.

We'll let Terry break down Florida Georgia Lions performance. Oh, no. You can go song by song and tell us what you thought about that. I can't, man. Nashville, Music City, Country Music, Capital of the World.

You're going to get Florida Georgia Lions. I don't understand how that happened. But anyway. But hey, hopefully that's the worst part about this. Uniforms are awesome, and everybody will be excited. So like I said, we'll touch on that tomorrow night. It's a thing, obviously, that's been out. I mean, we took a little bit of a break from uniform talk to bring free agency.

But if you're following on Twitter and Facebook and all that stuff, all anybody wants to talk about is uniforms. So, we'll finally get to see them tomorrow night, so that'll be exciting. Alright, so again, follow us on Twitter. I'm at jmorrismcm. Terry's at tlambertfb. Subscribe to the podcast

at LockedOnTitans on Twitter. Follow the podcast. Give us feedback there. Have any questions or any guests that you'd like to see us have on, let us know and we'll do our best to reach out and try to get them here. So for Terry, this is Jimmy saying thanks for listening to LockedOnTitans and we will talk to you again tomorrow.