Locked On Titans - Daily Podcast On The Tennessee Titans - SPECIAL - Locked On's Black Lives Matter Roundtable - 8 Locked On Hosts discuss life as a black man in America

Episode Date: June 11, 2020

In an eye-opening discussion, Ross Jackson (Locked On Saints) Aaron Freeman (Locked on Falcons) Tony Wiggins (Locked On Jaguars) John Hickman (Locked On Texans) Chris Carter (Locked On Steelers) Keith Pompey (Locked On 76ers) Coty Davis (Locked On Texans) and Your Boy Q (Locked On Raiders) come together for a special Locked On Podcast Network Black Lives Matter Roundtable. These eight Locked On hosts share their first-hand experiences as black men in America. When was the first time they clocked racism in their lives? What are the pet peeves they experience as a black man? In the wake of George Floyd's killing, does this movement feel different than those of the past? What needs to happen for this moment in time to have a lasting impact on society and to result in real gains for social justice? And, will these experiences change the next generation?   We take a momentary pause in our daily sports talk for this revealing and important special podcast episode. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi everybody, my name is Ross Jackson, I'm the host of Locked On Saints here with the Locked On Podcast Network. I have been living in Los Angeles for the last little bit, but I am born and raised proudly hailing from New Orleans, Louisiana. I've been working in live theater production as a stage manager over the last 11 years, happily engaged and have been working here with Locked On Saints going into now my third season and I've been covering the team for about four years. Hello everybody, I'm Tony Wiggins, the host of Locked On Jagu into now my third season, and I've been covering the team for about four years. Hello, everybody. I'm Tony Wiggins, the host of Locked On Jaguars.

Air Force veteran, proud of that. Father of five, been married to Kim for 13 years this month. Grew up in Jacksonville, Florida, and in Washington, D.C., and I am a barber and have been so for the last 27 years. Hey, everyone. This is Aaron Freeman, host of Locked On Falcons. I was born and raised in Virginia, went to school in Pittsburgh. Now I live in North Carolina, and I work in research on early childhood education. What's happening? It's your boy Q.

I'm originally from the Bay Area in California. I now live in Central Texas. I'm also the host of the Locked On Raiders podcast. Been doing it now for about three seasons. I've been doing radio, music radio since 1999, but in 2012 transitioned into sports radio and now host a radio show on ESPN Central Texas called Unnecessary Roughness from 12 to 3 daily. What's going on, everyone? This is Cody Davis, host of Locked On Texans.

I've been covering the Texans for around two years now, and I'm originally from New Orleans, but I've been living in Houston for over the last 14 years. Hey, what's up? This is Keith Fonte on Locked On Sixers. I'm originally from Philly. I went to college at Pittsburgh, at Pitt actually, in Pittsburgh. I lived down south for like 10 years, then I came back home, and I'm covering the Sixers for the Philadelphia Inquirer. And again, for Locked On Sixers, I'm living the dream, y'all. Just living the dream.

What's going on, everybody? It's John from SportsCatHip. And I am also the host of Locked On Texans from Houston, Texas. The founder and co-editor of HoustonSportsPress.com. I also work in the juvenile justice system here in Houston for Harris County. Without sports, I don't know where I'll be. And my name's Chris Carter. I'm the host of the Locked On Steelers podcast. Born and raised in Pittsburgh.

Got my law degree here. I got my undergrad degree at Cheyenne University. I've been an NFL analyst for the past five years going on. Still work in the legal field. But I've been working with the Locked On Steelers podcast for over a year now. And I'm happy to be part of this panel. But I've been working with the Locked On Steelers podcast for over a year now, and I'm happy to be part of this panel.

Over the next 90 minutes, these seven men will share their stories of what it's like to live as a Black man in America. It will be passionate and brutally honest. It's the Locked On Podcast Network Black Lives Matter Roundtable. Lives Matter Roundtable. All right, family, very glad to be able to be here with everybody and to be able to talk with y'all. So let's go ahead and get rolling here. We'll open up with our first topic. We've got a few that we'll go through, but we'll kick off here with a question about when was the first time that you clocked and were able to articulate racism in your experience? Feel free to jump in, whoever has an experience to share right off the bat.

Yeah, that's Tony Wiggins. I'll tell you what. Maybe in retrospect, I probably experienced it before I realized it. However, I just know when I was a child living in the inner city in what would be considered poor neighborhoods, I never felt that the cops were there to protect me. I always thought they were there to get me. And some of that may have been the people around me and their experiences that came to me as a child. But I had white coaches that would come pick me up for practice. So to me, it kind of erased it. So the first time I think I

actually experienced it when I realized that, oh, this is something different. I took a job after I graduated high school. I took a job right before I went in the military and I found myself working. I was the only person in there that was not on work release, right? These prisoners, they were like on work release. And I was the only one that wasn't. And we were working for $2 an hour because they were basically charging you for the food that you ate. But I told him, I don't want to eat.

I want my $4.25 an hour, you know? And when I told him that I had a better job for the last three months, that I was going to be a civilian, this guy named Mr. Miller, he looked right at me and said, I thought you were different. You're just like the rest of them. Now, mind you, I'm on my way to the United States Air Force,

and he basically told me that I was like those cold-hearted killers that were in the back of the kitchen that were glad to work for $2 an hour. So it kind of broke my heart. Hickman here, some sports guy here with Locked on Texas. I would say the first time that I actually noticed it and was able to recognize it without a soft cloud to land on was actually, I was 22 years old. I was in Beaumont, Texas.

We was having a house party, kickback at the time. And it got a little loud. So two police officers came, knocked on the door, and they did the regular, the normal. Hey, listen, we need you to kind of shut it down or keep it quiet. We're getting some complaints. If not, then, you know, if we have to come back, then these are the consequences that are going to have to take place. And at that point, I was okay. There was a third police officer who stormed to my door while yelling, I'm sick of this, you know, all kinds of things.

And at that point, he began to try to belittle me, you know, threw shots at me, thinking I was on welfare, I was on housing. He also, at that point, began to reach to his badge, my badge's gun, while he was yelling at me. And the other two police officers were sitting there, kind of, and still funny to me, and shocked that he didn't know we already had the conversation. You know, he was still yelling and, you know, claiming that he's been in my house a lot of times.

And at that point, I was pissed, to say the least. And so I went back and forth with him, letting him know that I wasn't on anything he thought I was. I'll take care of my brother. I'm also in school. He never came to my house. I gave him everything, every fact that he wanted to know because that was the first time, mind you, I'm in Southeast Texas,

that I experienced racism that was so blatant and disrespectful that I wanted to know because that was the first time, mind you, I'm in southeast Texas, that I experienced racism that was so blatant and disrespectful that I wanted to react in the same manner. This is your boy Q from Locked On Raiders. And it's crazy because you hear about a lot of racism when it comes to African-Americans and the black male when you're in maybe an inner city. But a lot of the racism that I really experienced was being in a nice neighborhood, being in a neighborhood that my mom put me in so I had a better opportunity to. That's where I really discovered and where I really was prone to have racist acts thrown my way.

And it just blew my mind to the point where I was so uncomfortable being in the nice neighborhood. I was yearning to go back to the hood. You know, I was yearning to get to the hood because I felt comfortable being around my own people because I didn't know the folks that were around me that didn't look like me, what they were thinking about me. And, you know, perfect example is I could be leaving the basketball court with me and my three buddies in the car. And all we do is have our sweats on after playing a game of ball and trying to stay warm. And we get pulled over and all four of us, all four of us fit the description. And you know, I'm a, I'm a young man.

I know that my driver's license is straight. I know I don't have anything in the car. I know I haven't done anything illegal. So I'm telling him like, wait a minute, hold on. We just left the basketball court and you know this because you were just there while we were there. And it's still, well, we need to run everyone's license. We need to run everyone's ID.

We need to check what's going on. And it was just one of those, I want to stop, I want to search, I want to see what's going on. And after 20, 30 minutes of back and forth BS, all of a sudden, okay, you can go. And that's just part of the experience, even being in, like I said, neighborhoods that you would expect to, to be more welcoming and more, you know, open to having you there, but that's not the case, you know, to the point where one of my neighbors early on in my young childhood, I think I was in, going into sixth grade, I was walking home from school one day, and this lady comes out of her house and says, hey, hey, you, what are you

doing in this, in this neighborhood? And I said, well, ma'am, I, I live right there. And she said, no, no, you guys don't live here. And at the point I'm in sixth grade, I really don't know who you guys are. And so I said, yeah, I do. I live right there at the, at the, at the top of the hill. I said, matter of fact, I know where you live. You live right there. I know this person, this person, that's my friend. I live right there at the top of the hill and you've been here about three months. What, what do I not know? And she said, well, you guys aren't supposed to be in this neighborhood. And then it hit me that she's talking about you guys as just my skin color. And that's when it hit me where I told my mom, like, Hey, I don't even feel comfortable being here. You got me in a nice

neighborhood, but I don't want to be here. I don't want to be here because these people don't want me here. That should be a feeling that no child ever feels. And that's when I really started to know what time it was. And then, obviously, as you get older, you start to learn the interactions with the police and how you are supposed to act and what you have to do, which is a conversation that my dad had with me saying, don't ever allow someone to make a decision on your life. that my dad had with me saying, don't ever allow someone to make a decision on your life.

And it just made me shake because I didn't think everyone in every family had that same conversation. But to know that me as a young black man was looked at as a threat, knowing that I'm not a guy that's gonna cause a problem, it always bothered me and always made me realize that I'm actually safer in a neighborhood where I might get shot by some crime or you know dealt with by some crime than I am in a neighborhood

where you feel pretty free and that everything is going to be good to go because you just don't know about the people that don't look like you what they're thinking about you this is Chris Carter from Locked On Steelers um I if we're talking the first time, I've had several points in my life where I could talk about instances where I was like, wow, that's happening. But the first thing I can remember was right around when I was like seven, eight, nine years old, like right around that really young age. And I was going to this afterschool daycare program because both my parents worked late. And one of my counselors kept calling me a monkey. And, you know, at first I was like, whatever. My parents taught me to ignore it, tell it to ignore bullying and bad names.

But it was at one point where some of the other kids were like, the counselor only calls you a monkey. And, and like, that's when it started to click for me. I was like, well, wait a second. And I said, okay, please stop calling me that. And she refused. He said, no, you look like a monkey. So I'm going to call you a monkey and you don't need to complain about it. Uh, and so, you know, that was my first brush with, but around that same time I had, I was beginning, I was getting my first ever black homeroom school teacher in elementary school. And, uh, Mr. Adams, he recognized how I always had very good grades. I was always really, and there was this scholar program in our, in our elementary school, our public, our Pittsburgh public school program that sort of elevated you on certain days of the week to different programs that let you do a little bit of higher education and got you ready for things and taught you skills that would really help you excel in your schooling.

And then also it led to other programs that helped push you to get ready for high school, which also helped push you to get ready for eventually for college. And it was sort of a pipeline that really helped you for it. But despite all my good grades, I never was invited to take a test for it, was allowed to even try to get into it. And my parents fought for years to try and get me in, even since I was in the kindergarten and first grade. And it wasn't until I was in the fourth grade when I first had my first ever black homeroom teacher, when he noticed, he's like, why is your son not in these programs? And my parents said, you tell us because we've been telling this, this school, this school district for years that this child deserves to be in there with all these other kids that get to go on these special trips and do these special

classes. And it was, and it wasn't until around that time when I started talking to them about more things that I encountered in my day, in my day to day. And then also then telling me about why I wasn't in the scholarship program, because I didn't understand it either. All my classmates got to go if they did really well, but I didn't, and I didn't get why. And then over time, him speaking up for me, him advocating for me, allowed me to take the test to get into the program. I aced the test, and then more of my black classmates, they started to get in as well. But these are the kind of things, it impacts us even long before we get

to the point where adults, we're dealing with it even behind the scenes. And sometimes it just takes an adult speaking out for someone that's able to see what's happening. Yeah, for me, it was one of those things similar to what Q's experienced. Growing up in a white neighborhood, you sort of internalize certain things where it's just like you see certain things as normal. Like you would see a Confederate flag sticker on the back of someone's pickup truck. And, you know, OK, like when I'm walking down the street going to or from the bus stop or playing with friends, like I have to cross the street to avoid that person's yard because if I'm walking too close to the yard or if I have step in their grass or something like that, then all of a sudden that can become a situation.

You know, you see sort of Confederate flags, you know, all around town and growing up where I was in Virginia. And it's one of those things where it's like, you sort of just know like, oh, I don't go to that part of town. You know, I don't go to that part of town. You know, I don't frequent those businesses. You know, there's one town over that's majority white that like you can go there during the day and that's fine if you have work or something like that. But if you're caught in that town, if you're seen in that town, you know, after dark or whatever the case may be,

you know, it's going to be a problem for you. And so those are certain things that you just sort of grow up internalizing. You only realize, you know, much, much later in life, at least I did that. Oh, those are just, those are, that's part of racism, but you just sort of grow up with that as something that's just a fact of life. You know, how they say, you know, children sort of accept the world as it, as it's told to them as it is, or whatever the case may be. And that's just one of those things that, you know, as a kid, you're just like, oh, that's just part of, you know, the way the world exists. And then later on, you sort of understand sort of how different that is and how, you know, a lot of people, you know, around this country

don't necessarily have to deal with those things, you know, as a young child. For me, this is Keith Pompey, Locked On Sixers. The first time my experience was in the first grade. You know, I went to, it was weird. I lived in an all black neighborhood, but my mom always sent me to like, like schools in the white neighborhoods. And I remember, you know, we were playing in the schoolyard and everybody had a nickname they were all superman like one one guy was superman the other guy was batman a hawk wolverine and my nickname was super n-word and you know i didn't understand it like i'm thinking like whoa i got a great nickname you know i'm this guy i'm this and. And I remember coming home one day and my aunt was in town and she was like, hey, so you like it at school?

And I'm like, yeah. And she's like, so what do they call you? And I said, they call me Super N-Word. And it was like, whoa. You know, the next day, my mom, my aunt, my aunt stayed. You know, we all were up at the school. next day, my mom, my aunt, my aunt stayed, you know, we all were up at the school. And then you start noticing, it was like, it was weird because it was, you would see the kids in school and they would speak. But then when you would see them with their parents, they wouldn't speak. And that's

when you knew it was like really different. And it was one of those things where it was wild where I grew up because again, it was, there was an avenue. I grew up in Philly and it was Frankfurt Avenue. And on one side, it was like black and Spanish. And then on the other side, it was white. And I remember whenever it would get like, you know, a certain time at night, people were like, well, you got to get on it, you'll get on your right side. You know, so that was it. You know, right then and there, you thought it was the normal. It was normal. But I have to say that in the first grade, when they called me like super inward, that was the first time that I really experienced it. I think for me, the first time I experienced it, I was around 17 years old and I was in First Collegiate Mall in Sugar Land.

And for those of you who are not familiar with the Houston area, Sugar Land is basically the rich side of Houston. That's where most of all the athletes live and stuff. So I was just in First Collegiate Mall. I forgot what I was there for. And, you know, I was just like the average 17 year old black kid, had my sweats, bad baseball hat on, um, turned backwards and stuff. And I love watches. So they had a store that sold like nothing but Rolexes.

So I walk up into the store and soon as I walk in there, um, the sales, you know, person came up to me like immediately. I wasn't even halfway, like all the way in the store. And,

um, you know, like the sale person came up to me. They was like, can I help you, sir? And I was like, no, no, no. I was just looking because I love watches. And I just wanted to see what, you know, what the nice watches look like, what the Rolexes and stuff look like. So they had a security guard that was like on the other side of the store.

And I said, no, no, no. I'm just looking. So I'm just walking around and stuff. I had my little cousin with me. So I was just, you know, window shopping and I just happened to look up from the corner of my eye and I saw the security guard had moved. So at first I was a little naive, but I was like, okay, that's, that's a little bit strange. So I walked to the other display that they had. It was this nice watch. I forgot what it forgot what it was and um I noticed every time I moved the security guard like kept watching me and then finally I told my little cousin Jordan

who's with me at the time I said come on man let's let's go and we just left and ever since I had that experience you know and you guys seen it you know you'll watch sitcoms and stuff and you'll see like you know a black person go up to an uppity store and have, you know, somebody following him and stuff. At that moment, that was no longer funny to me because I lived that situation. And I was just like, I'm not going to do anything. I'm not going to. I mean, first of all, you can't steal nothing out of there.

But the fact that they had other people shopping, but I had so many eyes on me, my little cousin, it just made me feel some kind of way. And after that, I was just like, you know, whatever. Yeah, that's understandable, man. My story of the first time that I really was able to see it articulated is similar to Keith's because it was founded in the N-word in particular. And it was a word that I already knew what it meant by the time that, you know, I was in first grade, which is the sort of like key story. But I grew up in a family that I had white family members and those white family members would use the word all the time, not in a way of talking about camaraderie amongst themselves, but instead about talking about people that look like me in a negative way, right, and referring to us. And so I would always hear about like this group of that group of these people,

like we don't go over there because that's where the live and stuff like that. And then, so, uh, I was in first grade and I had a substitute teacher that straight up called me that word in the classroom. And I remember, uh, I had such a stupid thing to remember when stuff like this happens to you, you remember like certain details. And I had like, you know, like a bag of chips, but instead I had a bag of like small, it was like cotton candy balls. And that's all I was doing. I was just eating my cotton candy balls. And then for whatever reason, the teacher decided that this was a time to refer to little Ross Jackson as this word. And it stuck with me. I mean, it hit me immediately because I had already been exposed to it so much with the sort of incendiary usage of it in my past that that was sort of the moment that I realized, like, OK, I don't have to be doing anything. Like, I don't have to transgress in any way. I just have to be present in order to make somebody uncomfortable.

Wow, man, that's good stuff and heavy stuff from all of you guys um i'm gonna try to push this forward a little bit too and it may seem like we're jumping but we're not because one of my pet peeves i'm actually gonna save it for when aaron takes the floor because one of my pet peeves actually is covered in that but since we're in the middle of of all of us trying to find answers and we have a lot of our non-black brothers who are with us right now. And what I mean by that is, you know, this is not just about black and white. This is about right and wrong for us. So one of the things that bothers me, and this is with people that I really, really had a lot of respect for, and I see it all over Twitter now.

They're actually posting the shooting and the murder rates in Chicago this weekend. It's the what about Chicago aspect. And I see you, Ross. I see Ross's eyes going back because it actually does get on your nerves because it's as if there are a group of people that think that we don't give a damn about what happens in Chicago or when a black person kills another black person. And that couldn't be far enough from the truth. We, you know, me being a person that is sort of around the inner city a little bit more than some people because of my job, because of some little stuff I do with high school recruiting, it hurts me and pains me to my heart. So first of all, I used to go through this whole spill about, well, when one black guy shoots another black guy, they go to prison.

And then when the cop shoots the black guy, he doesn't go to prison. I stopped doing that. And one of the reasons is this. When your favorite team scores a touchdown, if the quarterback is white and the receiver is black, they don't divide the points. if the quarterback is white and the receiver is black, they don't divide the points. When we win Olympic gold medals, they don't say, well, the gold medal for the dream team goes to the black delegation and the, and the gold medal for Michael Phelps goes to the white.

Our accomplishments are all one. So why aren't our problems? Everybody's problem. Why do you, why, why do folks look to black people as if i'm in jacksonville florida i've been to chicago twice right love the food i don't know a thing about what's going on in the hood in chicago so why do you expect me to be able to go up like i'm just this super negro and solve chicago's problems chicago's problems are all of our problems it's

not a black thing. If our accomplishments are all ours, so are our problems. When a black kid gets killed anywhere, white people in Ponte Vigie should be upset. When a white kid gets killed somewhere, when 9-11 happened, did we count the bodies and see what color they were? We didn't. So it kind of pisses me off that someone asked me as if I have some intricate knowledge of what is going on in Chicago. I can't solve that. That's a problem. That's not my problem. And I'll let you guys talk about it. Tony, this is Chris Carter here. I'm so glad you brought that up because that is my pet peeve as well. When I, you know, and this comes up every time black people or people that are allies to us bring up police brutality.

Someone says, well, what about black-on-black crime? And they throw up these crime statistics, and we're angry about it. But like you were saying, why has this become a thing? Why is this black-on-black crime even a statistic when no one talks about white-on-white crime? even a statistic when no one talks about white on white crime, when, when, when, when one of the school shootings happen and a white child goes and shoots up

all, who is that considered white on white crime? Do we talk about white people can't complain about other things? No, it is. It is a misnomer. It is a distraction used by people to, to distract us from the actual point of the conversation,

which is a, we want these people who are supposed to protect and serve us by the law to not only stop killing us, but for the criminal justice system to properly punish them and give justice to the families who lose their people. And the other thing is that people say, well, and the argument is that, well, Black people, they never organize around that. They don't care about people getting shot on the night. Hey, well, yes, we do. I'm sitting here in Pittsburgh this very evening. Just last night, another child got shot in Wilkinsburg,

which is one of the black neighborhoods that are just outside of the city. And there's a group called Mad Dads. And it's a group called Men Against Destruction, Defending Against Drugs and Social Disorder. They're a group of black men that are in our community. And this is an organization that's across the country. And they patrol our neighborhoods as black men. And we go through, and these are black men that are in our community. And this is an organization that's across the country. And they patrol our neighborhoods as black men. And we go through, and these are black men.

They're not super, super, they're not vigilantes. They're not superheroes, but they're janitors. They're preachers. They're teachers. They're coaches. And so when they see kids on the corner, they don't try to like get physical with them. They just say, hey, young man, I know you.

I taught you in third grade, or I preached to you. I saw you grow up on your block. I know you in third grade. Or I preached to you. I saw you grow up on your block. I know you don't want to be doing this right now. And their presence has helped so many other situations. In fact, years ago, there was a statistic where people were dying on buses, and I believe this was in Minneapolis itself. And there was a problem because there was violence happening there. And all mad dads in that city did was they sat on the buses and they just had their presence and they wore a t-shirt that said, I'm a mad dad.

And the kids that were committing those violent acts, they would stop because of that. And there's many organizations like that. There's stop the violence movements all across the country. There's rallies in black neighborhoods. But the problem is with the people that say, what about black on black crime?

They don't care about the people that die in the situation. They use the lives of those people as political punchlines. And it is seriously insulting and infuriating as a black person to hear not only do you not care about the people that are dying by the hands of the police, you only care about the people that die at the hands of gang violence and other violence in low-income communities, only to use them against the people that are trying to ask for justice for these people over here. It is more of a statement of why to these people that use those arguments that Black Lives Matter don't matter to them. So that is – I agree 100 percent with you, Tony. That is one of my major pet peeves.

Yeah, I want to jump in on this one too a little bit because it'll lead me into kind of my big thing too. You know, we talk of, you know, the white-on-white crime question and the black-on-black crime point or narrative and everything like that. It's an interesting thing that always continues to come up at the most opportune time for people that are trying to push that particular narrative. But we never talk about what that mentality actually is because the fact of the matter is that people commit crimes in the communities in which they live. So why don't we talk then about, why don't we talk about housing loan discrimination? Why don't we talk about redlining? Why don't we talk about gerrymandering? All those things that push our communities out to these places to where they are food deserts, to where they are desperate for material that are

desperate for data. So it's just the weirdest thing to where it's like okay and even trying to deflect the actual issue that we should be talking about with an action with an issue that doesn't exist what you actually do is push a narrative that actually works against you because here's all these other conversations that we could be talking about based upon what you're trying to push here and when you do that and this this kind of rolls into sort of my pet peeve or my i i'd not, you know, we talk about like microaggression, covert, overt, to me, it's all aggression, right? Period. It's all aggression in any way. And for me, one of the things that I experience a lot in having these conversations is the individualization of the conversation. So if I'm talking to a white person about,

here's why these things are important to me, which is a conversation I'm perfectly happy to have any times where it's actually a conversation and discourse. I don't really engage in arguments. I ain't got energy for that. But I'm having those conversations. And then somebody looks at me and says, well, I'm not like that. That ain't the problem. You're not the problem. And the thing that I always tell people is that if the issue was individualized between you and me, it would have been handled already, right? Like we would have talked it out. We would have done whatever we had to, to, to work it out. But we need to, what we have been handled already, right? Like we would have talked it out. We would have done whatever we had to work it out. But what we're talking about instead,

when people want to individualize or internalize these things as if I'm specifically talking to a person, a white person, that's not the case. What we're really talking about is the fact that, you know, over 90% of policymakers are white. 100% of the people that have the highest gross income in the country are white. You know, over 80% of the NFL ownership is white, or over 90% of the NFL ownership is white. 100% of the people that have the highest gross income in the country are white. Over 80% of the NFL ownership is white, or over 90% of the NFL ownership is white. Over 90% of the Congress

and of the House and Senate, they are all white. And so when we talk about that, we talk about the fact that this is a system that has been put in place and is continuously perpetuated by the people that created it, that is doing exactly what it was built to do and that is what the issue is it is a much bigger issue than anything that's individualized between me and a single person that i'm talking to so please stop internalizing as if i'm saying that's all your fault however understand where your role is and either remaining complacent in it remaining complicit in it or perpetuating it in your own individual way uh john hickman here I want to hop in real quick and say, first and foremost, I mean, I think me and Cody are the youngest of the young guys. None of you guys are old. Everybody's in here young,

but I think we are like the youngest of everybody in the group and just kind of being blown away by the conversation we're having right now. With that being said, my biggest pet peeve is the hypocrisy and contradicting when it comes to knowing your history of this country. Me as a historian, if I know something, I know it. If I don't, we're having a conversation.

I will take time out to do my research to know exactly what's going on. We have conversations with a lot of people that feel as if, you know, all lives matter, Trump's black lives matter, which, you know, to me, that'll never make sense because the all that you're trying to push out there is literally leave it out one of the all. But when it comes to history,

we have tried as black people in America to do everything that was taught since we were able to read books, vote, everything that you guys gave us legally. We've been trying for the longest to do what you told us was the right way. Go to school, go to college, get a business, start a family, do this, do that. And you can live the American dream as well. And the problem that I've had with that for a very long time is when we go through these obstacles, because they are obstacles for us, no matter how you want to look at it, no matter if you grew up in Bel Air or you grew up in the South Side of Houston, we will go through those obstacles because we were born with our skin.

And so when we go through these obstacles and things happen and we are mistreated, well, we say, this is what we taught us to do. Why can't we do this? And you're not going through it as well. And just looking at how I've been treated in my life and a lot of my brothers, friends, and I can see you guys as brothers and family

with my phone and the black of my brothers, friends, and I can see you guys as brothers and family of my own, and the black people in this country, period, whenever we try to say that this is what you guys did, why can't we do it, it's always some hypocrisy going on. It's always contradicting. It's always you should have did it this way. You should

have been quieter. And we've done everything that you've put on us to do that good and at some point whenever I have these conversations with everybody that brings I'm sorry brings up the the point that they want to make they always forget that we've tried everything and at this point we can't try anymore to do what you want us to do. We're no longer able to fit your box that you created for us. Now we're ready to make our own box.

Now we're ready to make our own lane and live the life that we have to live because apparently doing what you taught us won't end up for us to get a shot or we're going to miss out on a business loan. You taught us this is the American dream. We're not going to get the scholarship. We're going to give you our license and registration the way you told us to do it, the way it's been taught to us

throughout the entire history, but we're going to get shot because law is mistaken for a gun. And that's my biggest issue when I talk to people. A lot of times when they continue to push that if you just do it this way or if you didn't do it this way or what about this, I stop having those conversations because it's clear to me that you don't know about the history of our people in this country.

And a lot of times I would test them on their history and they don't even know it. I guess my biggest issue is ignorance. Right. And, you know, the ignorance with Black Lives Matter, Black Lives Matter. You know, this week I've been explaining a lot to people. I mean, to a point where I mean, I get emotional a little bit over this because, you know, when I saw the video, it brought back so many memories and it brings back a lot. I don't know about y'all, but you know, as a, as a kid growing up, you look at your situation and you're always told that if you work hard, if you do well in school, you can always uplift yourself. But in every level that you go to, like,

I remember the first time I rolled on Pitt's campus, I'm from Philly. I went to school at Pitt and I remember walking across the street and seeing car doors locked, right? Lock, you know, people crossing the other side so they don't see me. And, you know, so everyone always says like, look, Keith, you know what? You can get yourself a nice job. You can do whatever you want and you're going to make it. But you're always reminded that you're not on somebody's level, that there's an unlevel playing field. remember the first time I like, heck, I live where we live at right now. I'm going to share this with y'all. This is crazy. So one day I'm coming home from a game and I see this police officer. I'm like, all right, I know he's going to stop me. Here we go. So it's literally right around the corner from the house. I have my, my media badge on me.

He comes up and he says, where are you coming from? I'm like, I'm coming from the gang. Where are you going? I'm going home. Where do you live? I live right around the corner. So the guy says, Oh, so you covered the game. The game is on your phone, right? And I say, yeah, it you covered the game. The game is on your phone, right? And I say, yeah, it's on the phone. You can look at it. Oh, let me see. I never heard of

you before. And so you're looking and you're like, oh, here we go. So I show him. I'm like trying not to get clubbed or anything. So I show him my iPhone and he looks and he sees my name and he reads a little bit. And then he says, so you live right around the corner, right? I say, yeah. Okay, you could go ahead. So I drive, I make the right, he makes the right. And then he's right behind me. And then I pull in the driveway, and he keeps going. And so to me, that's when people need to know that Black Lives Matter. I mean, that's just an

example. Because see, people look at us, and they'll say, you know, you guys have podcasts, you guys do various things, everything is cool. No, it's not. And see, the thing about it is, everything is cool. No, it's not. And see, the thing about it is, it's like, not only as a man, but as a black man, you have to keep your face right. You know, you have to be strong in this and that. But then there's always those one times where not saying you don't feel less of a man, but you have to put up with more stuff than anyone else. And you know why you're going through it. You know what I mean? Now, if it was one of those things where you say to yourself, like, look, dude, you're going to stop disrespecting me and you act this way, then you know what the outcome is going to be. And we can look at television.

You saw in Buffalo when they shoved that older gentleman, they said he tripped. You saw all the other stuff where, like, we know my man was choking, like the guy choked him out with his knee. They saying he died for another reason. So it's one of those things. These are things on video, but we're talking about us and it's just a cop and no one else around. So that's why I want people to know, like, look, it's different. Now, when y'all say all lives matter, of course, all lives matter. But what we're telling y'all is our lives matter, too. And some people don't want to hear it, but that's just how it is. Yeah, no doubt about that you know when it when it excuse

me when it when it goes to to ignorance i have to say that that's where my pet peeve uh lies as well and it kind of doubled down on what you just said and yeah i mean everyone's reacting right now to what's been seen on video but i mean and i i can laugh and call myself one of the older dudes in the in the group but we've been seeing videos since 92. You know what I mean? We've been seeing the videos. And on top of that, what about all the cases that ain't been on video that we've either seen, been a part of, heard of? And so when we share our story, when I share my story and I start talking to someone who doesn't look like me and I say, man, this is what's going on and this is really bad and it's been really bad here for a long time. And then they look at me and they say, I don't know why you're complaining so much. If it's so bad, why don't you move?

I just laugh. You know, I mean, I just laugh and I was like, okay, so I'm just supposed to get up and move every time something is bad. I mean, if that was the case, I'd have moved around the country my whole life. You know, at some point you got to stay and fight, right? And that's what we're seeing right now in the country is we're seeing folks staying and fighting and saying, you know, what the hell with this? I'm not going to keep on moving and keep my mouth shut and turn the other cheek because a lot of times I'll practice that. I'll say, you know what? It's okay.

I know how that dude thinks. I know how that dude acts. As long as I know, it'll be all right. That's what I say all the time. As long as I know, then it'll be all right because I can find a way to maintain. But the problem is 18-year-old me can't find a way to maintain. 17-year-old me or any of our children can't find ways to maintain because they don't know any better.

They're going to wonder what the hell is going on. And so that's where my concern comes in the most, why I say, hey, man, this is something that we need to get a grip on. We need to figure out how we can turn the corner on this because 43-year-old Q is going to be fine, but is 16-, 17-year-old Q going to be fine? That's what I'm worried about. You know what I mean?

And so that's when we start talking, and we have these sessions and these forums, and that's why this roundtable we're having tonight is so great because I think we're all in the same understanding that, hey, man, this is something that's been going on. This needs to be heard without someone saying, well, if you got it so bad, then why don't you just quit? Or why don't you just leave? Or why don't you just go somewhere else?

You guys are over-exaggerating. Just shut up and listen because this is a real problem. It's really going on. You know, for me, the biggest pet peeve is when you take a look at the news, it's the narrative that's around someone who is caucasian versus the african-american male and what i mean by that is when you have a story of a white male who goes up and kill 17 18 people wherever the number might be they commit a mass murderer the narratives surrounding them once they capture them is, oh, they had mental issues.

Oh, their father wasn't around or, you know, his mother didn't show him love. And they try to make you feel sorry for this individual. For example, Dylann Roo. Why in the hell would you want to try to make someone sorry for this guy who just walked up in a church and just killed people for no apparent reason? who just walked up in a church and just killed people for no apparent reason. But then when you take a look at a situation like Eric Garner or even George Floyd, what this just happened with, when it's them who get killed for no apparent reason, it's not a sad story where, you know, they lost their life. Oh, it's, you know, they had X amount of criminal backgrounds or, you know, they were high on something.

You know, I read an article talking about George Floyd had the Corona virus. That's part of the reason why he died. I'm looking at that, that I'm looking at that topic, like what in the hell do that has to do with, with what we saw on video? And that, that, that bugs me the most because I'm like, you telling me if I'm a white male, not only can I go and kill people for no apparent reason, I'm going to get arrested easily. They're probably going to take me to Burger King or feed me. I'm going to live off of American citizen taxes, and I could be able to live my life with people taking care of me versus if I'm a black man.

And let's say if I'm selling cigarettes on the corner, like in the case of Eric Garner, I could lose my life. And the one thing that pisses me off the most, and to be honest with you guys, I have not seen a George Floyd video because the one video that really messed me up when we was in college, and John can tell you, is the Eric Garner situation. And when I found out that you have a guy in George Floyd who was saying, I can't breathe, the same damn words that Eric Garner said back in 2014,

why in the hell did that not ring a bell to you? And it's just frustrating, man. That's the biggest pet peeve, or one of my biggest pet peeves, is the fact that you look on the national news and there's a different narrative between the white guy versus the black guy. I can kill 17 people and I'm going to be all right, but I just got mental issues. But if I run a stop sign, guy. I can kill 17 people and I'm going to be all right, but I just got mental issues. But, you know,

if I run a stop sign, all of a sudden I have like a whole record and I deserve to die. All right. Well, the next topic that I'd like to bring up is the importance of black people in media. And right now, and I mentioned at the top of the show that I work for ESPN Central Texas, and, you know, I'm blessed to be in that position. But it's so crazy when you look across the landscape of sports and you look across the landscape of journalism, how much more difficult it is for someone who looks like me to get into that position. You're right. And me being a barber and then me going to Terrestrial Radio, which I was on the flagship station of the Jaguars for five years in midday.

And they had other African-Americans working there, but they were doing specialty shows and stuff like that. You carry a tremendous burden, especially when kneeling happens. Because what happens is now you've got to speak for everybody. You know, you have to be that one voice. And that pressure never really came from management. But the pressure comes from your upbringing. The pressure comes from you having to make sure that you're on point, you say the right things and you don't make mistakes. I would have loved to had another just brother on there who just he didn't have to even agree with me. He could have disagreed with me. But at least it would have taken some of that burden off of me

to have to go and be the correct voice for black people i remember one day i was talking about one subject and i got called both a racist and an uncle tom based on the same sentence i said amen so that that kind of made me feel like i arrived because i was so polarized like i said the same thing the white dude called me a racist and the black dude called me uncle tom, you know. But for me, I think it goes beyond the station and the programming. You notice just like with this Black Lives Matter thing, one of the things that I noticed are people that four years ago that would have never thought to have marched or worn a shirt the jaguars wore black odd matter shirts the coaches and management wore shirts with players and what they'd have never done that four years ago i think and i'm not saying that they're not genuine because i would not you know cast aspersions on them like that because i do think it's genuine but i also think they believe

it's okay now and what i mean is they realize it's not going to hurt their bottom line as much as they thought, because now being quote unquote woke is actually, there's actually some green pasture there for people, right? And it's not going to kill them as much as they thought. Well, here's the, here's the thought. Shad Khan, the owner of the Jaguars, he's starting a black news network. I don't know the name of it. I don't even know if I said it correctly. But does that mean that all you're going to see is black people? No. You might see the young version of Scott Van Pelt on there, just like you don't see all black people on first take.

But you know that's all Stephen A., right? But wait a minute, from a programming perspective, we can have this breakfast club type sports station where it's hip hop and jazz centric. And then we can have some white people on, too. And white people, if they want to work there, they can work there, too. But we don't have to look at blacks as a niche or we got one or we need this one guy to be a voice. We can actually attack it as programming, and then they can make money off of that too. So I think it goes beyond the individual station. I think it happens to be with the investors. I think they have to also create a platform, and somebody has to create a station that's willing, and it doesn't have to come from a black person, that's willing to say, you know what? We're going to start this.

The shot con is done and we're going to be diverse and we can make money for it from it. And it's not a niche. It's just the thing that everybody watches. And I think it takes the color out of. I want to tag in one quick thing. Real, real quick, just about the importance of us in here. Right. the importance of us in here, right? The importance of this for me and creating opportunities for us and continuing to advance is so that, and all the other brothers and sisters that are doing it as

well that aren't on this call, but that we carry in our hearts. I want my children, any other black children around the country to be able to look and see somebody that looks like them in this position, as opposed to them only being able to look and see themselves in a position of being filmed, being killed by a police officer or being killed by vigilantism, right? As often as we see those examples on repeat, I want them to see us on repeat as well. And so that's why I think that, you know, what we talk about in terms of working three times harder, working five times harder, working six times harder, not pigeonhole ourselves, you know, expand and do as much as we can. All of it is incredibly important because we are incredibly important as a presence in this industry.

When we look at the difference and the time that we're going through the 2020, 2016, 2012, the whole nine. This point in my life, I want to say that it feels different for me simply because there's been a lot of talk that has been started. This always happens. But with the talk that has been started, we are seeing much more action behind it. Now, whether it's from the rioting, looting, whether it's from the constant marching and protesting and really putting pressure on local officials, mayors, governors, police chiefs. I was out here in Houston and we did the march. The police chief was out there with rappers Trey, The Truth, and Bambi after everything that's

going on with George Floyd. There has been so much action behind it that I feel in the previous years that has lacked on behalf of black people in this country, especially when the boom on social media started to pop off. I felt like everything was a hashtag and it'd be okay. And right now, whether some people want to make it a trend or a fad, which we're seeing a lot of quote unquote social influences, you know, take pictures just to leave the scene. And those are also one of my pet peeves that I forgot to mention earlier. But we're seeing everybody that's really with the cause. And the cause is, to put it plain and simple, we just want to live without being in fear all the time.

This is the first time in my life that I'm able to recognize. And I was born in 1992 when the L.A. race riots kicked off. And, you know, that's the whole thing about history when I tell people that, I mean, when you say rioting never worked, that retrial, those couple of cops got, you know, they got their due justice for Rodney King, and he also got the $3.8 million. So, at times, Rodney can work. However, for me, it does feel different because the

action is there, and it seems like there's no letting up for the foreseeable future, and we have to continue to keep that action going. We can't be like the Atlanta Falcons and get off the gas and stop, stop, you know, attacking when you're in the Super Bowl. Seriously, but you have to continue to attack.

And that's the most thing I'm proud about right now is just the action behind the words. And without that action, we'll continue to live in the same cycle over and over again. John, really? We were all feeling brotherly love in this roundtable and you had to take it there. 28-3, baby! I was thinking the same thing, Aaron.

I was like, did he just hit Aaron? Did he hit Aaron with a grapple, man? We're going so well with this. So you have to see that. But I'm going to ignore that comment, John. I do just want it to be on record that it was not Ross from lockdown. Thank you. I just want that. But you know, for me, when we talk about sort of why this is different,

like for me, at least on a personal level, like it's not different in the sense of like my anger about the death of George Floyd or Ahmaud Arbery or Breonna Taylor, or any of the people that have sort of died at the hands of racists and police recently. It's not any different than my anger over Eric Garner, Michael Brown or Philando Castile or Alton Sterling or anybody over the last, you know, six, seven years, or, you know,

going back even further than that, you know, you know, probably a week doesn't go by where I think about, you know, six, seven years or, you know, going back even further than that, you know, you know, probably a week doesn't go by where I think about, you know, Emmett Till or something like that, that happened, you know, 60 years ago. So for on a personal level, it doesn't feel different in that way. But I think certainly on a nationwide level, it certainly does feel different. And I think one of the reasons why it may feel differently this time is because of the COVID-19 is because we have sports being canceled and people, you know, it's not to sit here and diminish what we do, but oftentimes what we do talking about sports is talking about a thing that's entertainment. That's talking about a thing that's a distraction to the real issues that go on in day-to-day life. And instead of spending our,

you know, this first week of June or late May talking about the NBA finals or the NBA playoffs or the Stanley Cup, or, you know, you know, who was the top rookie at NFL mini camp this past week or something like that. Now, all of that is sort of white clean and now people can be focused on this topic. And I think that's a positive thing. So when we look at sort of sports and, you know, I think we all sit here much more of a groundswell sort of situation that even though you can look at the situation that led to the murder of George Floyd, you know, no differently than the murder of Eric Garner, you know, years ago as not that different. But because the world is a different place, I feel like that's led to potentially some positive change moving forward.

Yeah, it's definitely different. It's way different. And it's one of those things that really blew my mind when all this really kicked off because I kept asking that question, you know, why is this different? Like I said, man, I remember 92. I remember Rodney King. I remember all the videos that we've seen and all the people that have gotten off and gotten away with things. I mean, we saw a guy who wasn't even really a security guard get away with killing Trayvon Martin. I mean, you know, we saw everything and it always bothers me because as a father, I keep saying that I can't protect my son when he goes out in the streets. I can protect him and teach and preach to him all I want about,

hey, you and me, we look like someone who cannot afford to make a wrong move or jump the wrong direction or, you know, or reach for something. You have to be on your A game. You have to be as careful as possible at everything you do. But I can't, you know, I can't just stand over and hover over him all the time. And so to see all this reaction across the country, I mean't, you know, I can't just stand over and hover over them all the time. And so to see all this reaction across the country, I mean, if you're looking for a silver lining, I feel like it's positive that these conversations are being had. And I feel like going back to another topic that we had earlier about the fact that, you know, people are speaking out that normally wouldn't speak out.

And that's encouraging. Now, again, the conversation has to continue and the action needs to continue to build so this can grow but i i'm thinking because covid 19 has a lot to do with it sports not being there people cooped up uh people you know politically mad at the president i mean there's a lot of different reasons i think that are going into the fact why this is being being talked about and being noticed and such a big, I don't want to say big deal because it's always a big deal, but it's such a big deal worldwide right now.

It's just, it's kind of a little bit of everything. It's everything is really just put together, and people are frustrated to the point, and I never thought this, and guys, you can correct me if I'm wrong, I never thought we'd get to a point where people would say, see, that's why Cap was kneeling. That's why Cap was kneeling. And people agreeing with that. You know what I mean?

Like Cap talking and Cap kneeling was almost a bad word if you say it on the radio because all of a sudden everyone wants to come for your head. Like was said earlier, you're either Uncle Tom or you're a racist. If you had Cap's back, you were a racist. If you were, you know, if you didn't, if say, hey, I wouldn't have kneeled, then you're an Uncle Tom. I mean, it's so unbelievable but right now i feel like at least the conversation is being had and and it's being heard where a lot of times it's just talk talk talk and people shut down and

and don't listen i feel like now people are listening and that if you could find a positive that would be it but when we talk about how does this feel different, those of you who are familiar with Texas and the roots of Southern Pride, I don't know if you're familiar with Viter, Texas. Viter, Texas, Cody and I

were down the street from, and I pass through Viter, Texas all the time. I even have to go to the court down there. Had a peaceful protest and rally for George Floyd. When the news first came out, every Lamar student and everybody that I know from Beaumont

literally said, nobody's going to this. And when it actually happened and people were on record talking about white people, anybody talking about what's going on, for the first time, I could say, well, I think change is really being sparked because the VITER text and the history behind VITER is pretty dark when it comes to black people. Well, another thing I think that makes this different is, you know, you guys are talking about the timing.

And one thing that really struck to me was when I heard Attorney Carl Douglas, and he's a longtime expert in talking about police brutality and fighting against it. But he was on ESPN Radio last week talking about how the country saw this man narrate his own death. And this also coming off of the heels of Breonna Taylor and Ahmaud Arbery. This also coming off of the heels of Breonna Taylor and Ahmaud Arbery. And when you hear this man, he called out for his mother. He called out – he begged for his life as he died. And like Cody was saying earlier, this is not the first time we've heard that. We heard that with Eric Garner. He said, I can't breathe as he was being brought down to the ground and being and continually took while he was not a threat. And we see this again. And for years, people have been saying Black Lives Matter. I think the organization is over seven years old now. And we saw Colin Kaepernick take a knee for this. We've seen people say this for years. And I think this moment where people were anyone. It doesn't matter if you if you for your whole life thought that racism wasn't an issue and you saw that and you saw someone, I think that, that touched more people.

Because we've, we've seen people die on camera before. We've seen it happen several times now. And a lot of people not care. But we haven't seen a man cry out like that. And I think that reached a lot more people. But what we need not forget about the situation is that it has the attention of the world. But this is much bigger than just Black Lives Matter. That is the tip of the iceberg.

That is the baseline. That is the congratulations. You made it to the start of the race here. We have so many more issues. And I'm going to get to this in our last topic of this discussion. We have so many more issues that we need to address that involve the safety of Black lives moving forward. I'll get into that later. Yeah, I want to just add something I do feel like this is our modern day Woodstock. I have kids in their late 20s, boys, strong boys,

boys that I've had to have conversations with that make me nervous because unlike me, they had a father. They had a strong daddy. And I wouldn't, if they were listening to this, matter of fact, I might let them hear it, but I might tell them to skip this part. They're actually stronger than me when I was that age. They're bigger, they're tougher, they're more fierce.

And that concerns me when I see them on Instagram out late at night because I have insomnia. I often call them and say, you all right? Where you at? And my thing is, is I'm not worried about the block runners. I'm not worried about the dudes that they don't involve themselves in their business. I'm worried about the police and I shouldn't feel that way. And, um, I know that's relatable to a lot of people here. So I think it does feel different. relatable to a lot of people here. So I think it does feel different. I would hope that unlike some periods when I was a kid in the 70s where everybody thought we made it and started partying,

that we don't let our foot up off the gas. This can't be something that starts and just stops because the adversary, and the adversary is not white people. The adversary is the people that want to see us divided forever because they profit off of it. The adversary won't quit. They will not quit. We need to make sure that we instill hope. The hope is that even though it took four years that people now see that Kaepernick was right. That's the hope for young black people, because they look for hope when they see Barack Obama and people say he wasn't born here and he's from somewhere else. And his wife is summa cum laude and they call her a monkey. And Jay-Z makes it from the projects to

being a billionaire and they tell him to shut up. And they tell LeBron James, who was a product of a single parent household, who builds a school and becomes a half a billionaire. And they tell him to shut up. And they tell LeBron James, who was a product of a single parent household, who builds a school and becomes a half a billionaire. And they tell him just to shut up and dribble. So you see these cases one after one where we realize we can't outdress the situation. We can't articulate this situation. We can't do any of that stuff. And that's why when people tell me, you know, when I see you, I don't really see color. No, I want you to see color. Stop telling me that because my thing, that's another one of my pet peas. No, I want you to see me as black because I see you as white, but it's okay because our history is our history. If we're together, right? That ugly history that hurt me and my ancestors,

that's our stuff. We got to own that. If we never own that collectively, if we're a family, then I always feel like an outcast. Don't tell me that you're looking past my skin color as if my skin color is something that I shouldn't be proud of because, quite frankly, I come from these thought of Martin Luther King and Mecca Evers and Harriet Tubman. I feel like a superhero. So don't tell me you're looking past that for me. I feel like a superhero. So don't tell me you're looking past that for me. My thing is we need to give hope. Hope is when you're standing in the inner city and you're cutting hair. And little Ray Ray's 13 and he has a choice to go to the streets or be like the guy on TV that is constantly ostracized by people in power. We forget that Colin Kaepernick was a 4.0 student in college. What a thug. And by the way, them calling those kids that's marching here in Jacksonville is a march tomorrow. Those kids of Black Lives Matter, when they call them terrorists and thugs, they're college students. When they call us, these articulate brothers on here with all of these degrees and military service and all of this stuff, they call us

thugs and they call us race baiters. The Bomani Jones of the world. Let me tell you something. All of us know some thugs. They ain't marching. Not only are they not marching, they don't have Twitter or Instagram. And not only that is they ain't negotiating with you. They're not going to come ask you for nothing. And when I say you, I ain't talking about white people. I'm talking about me too.

Yep. So my thing is when you're throwing that around, you got to be real, real careful. Go to Oakland. Go to Southeast D.C. Come to Jacksonville. Go to Miami. Go to Fifth Ward in Houston.

Go to Holly Grove and all of that stuff in New Orleans. You got some people that don't even have no Twitter page. They ain't worried about marching. And y'all calling us thugs? And that's the problem. Too many times law enforcement and people of authority look at us because we're a vocal group as a threat. And we might be a threat to them because those other people don't care. So my thing is, is stop categorizing people as thugs because you're taking the hope away from little children that want to try to differentiate which way they want to go in life sometimes, you know?

I think the most important thing with that is you can't sit here and say, I hate this because my pet peeve is well. Or you're not like the rest of them, or you're not like the other ones. And then when we call for the, whether it's defunding the police or retraining a police officer, you can't say we're all police officers and I don't like that because just like you see some of us on whatever you see on social media, TV, whatever, acting a certain way, we have proof that they are killing us,

getting on scot-free. And this goes back to the mediocrity, hypocrisy, or don't say that about us and then when we spit it back at you wait a minute, whoa, whoa, whoa you're going too far I think right now in 2020 when we've seen segregation, we've seen lynches

we've seen crosses being burned on people's yards, we've been passed too far for a very long time now and it won't change without reform. And that's reforming with everybody across the entire board to get this right. You know, the question, does this feel different? To me, it's kind of a tricky situation because, I mean, look at the world right now. I mean, basically the world is still at a standstill due to the virus that woke everybody's eyes up.

standstill due to the virus that woke everybody's eyes up. I'm praying that this is different and that we can finally, you know, something can really come about this, some kind of change. But my only thought is six months from now, what's going to happen? Because six months from now, we're going to have the NFL, the NBA, possibly baseball, and a presidential election, a big presidential election. possibly baseball and a presidential election a big presidential election my my ad i don't want this for people to just go on about their life and then next thing you know who we are a year later and there's somebody else named with a hashtag and we basically got to start from square one i just hope that the people that we are seeing that are finally speaking out the ones who now

understand why kaepernick took that knee the people who now understand the full meaning of Black Lives Matter. I hope that when they say that they understand and that now they want to march with us, they want to fight with us, that they're doing it because they're sincere about it, not because it's the right thing to say right now versus when everything tried to go back to normal six months from now, it's just going to be a thing of the past. And then, like I say, next thing you know, it's going to be 2021. There's going to be another black African-American male or female name hashtagging. We feel like we're back at square one again.

You know what, Cody? When I first, I mean, I feel like you a little bit, right? Initially, I was like, you know, we, you know, three months are going to pass. People are going to go back to work and people are going to forget about George Floyd. That was my initial response. Like everyone's asking me about it at work. They don't care. But to be honest with you now, I think it's going to change.

But to be honest with you now, I think it's going to change when you have people all over Europe, all over Europe marching and you have people in New Zealand marching. And like some of these places where people are marching at, they all look united on television, but they have their issues too. So I think that what this stuff is happening with George Floyd is opening it up for everyone. And I'm going to be honest with you. Think about it in the past. Do you think, honestly, 10 years ago we would be all on here doing a podcast? You know, like this podcast isn't just for our people. It's for everyone. People are going to sit here and they're going to listen to this. And it used to always be our problem. Like, yeah, now why is my white neighbor calling me now saying, hey, man, I'm sorry. I mean, I had a high school guy apologize to me today over something that I don't even remember. Right. But it's to a point where I think people are starting to see it and they're starting to realize that stuff is bad. And as much as the president, you know, is trying to be divisive, I think people

look at it. They see how he's like running over protesters. They see how people are getting knocked down. But I honestly, when we got the world, you have the entire world out there protesting. I think that it is, it is going to create an going to create a platform for it to change. But I didn't feel that way two weeks ago, but I feel that way now. So guys, this is Chris Carter from Locked on Steelers. Our last topic here is just to let people know out there, if you're confused about how to help right now, this is how you can help in the cause and the fight that's going on against racism and against white supremacy, because it's bigger than

just police brutality. We've been talking about the issues that we've had with the police, what we saw with George Floyd. But the whole point of this is that this is the baseline. This is the foundation. We want our lives to simply just matter enough so that when you see us die on camera, that it matters to someone else. But that is the tip of the iceberg in this conversation because there are numerous other areas. I mean, and we can go on, we can do 3,000 shows about all the different areas where black people suffer at a rate that is higher than other people in this country. And in some cases, higher than any other group of people in this country whether it comes from housing discrimination and gentrification like how ross was touching on earlier in this show

and we look at employment rates and how even when when president trump was saying during his administration that that black unemployment rates were at the lowest they are in history he neglected to say that that was also at that time still double of what white unemployment was at that time. Even now, we just we're seeing COVID-19 unemployment rates skyrocketed this month. They said the month of May from the month of April was the first time we didn't see the national unemployment rate rise when you looked at the majority of Americans. But the one group of people that it still rose for was black Americans. One group of people that it still rose for was black Americans. That's because there's still issues of racism, of disparate impact, of things where you look at employment discrimination, things that you can impact every day.

And this message is to everyone listening who's thinking like, man, I can't – I don't know how to stop police brutality. I don't know if I can just find – I can't be Batman and just find that the next time a cop is being bad. But what you can do is when you're sitting in your office and you're in your company and you know that there's a black person that's been working in your company for 10 years. And a black woman's been sitting there and she's been dedicated to her job and there's a promotion on the line. And she gets passed over for a person who's been working there for two years and doesn't do nearly half as much work as she does. You can speak up in those moments. A perfect example of how racism is impacting in so many facets of our lives. In the very coverage of the protests right now here in Pittsburgh is a perfect example. At the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, which is a legendary newspaper in our city, it has covered some of the worst times and the best times and brought so much insight. But right now it has changed direction, and it is going in a direction that is silencing black voices. Alexis Johnson, a black woman who is a journalist in our city, was doing a great job covering the protests.

But on her Twitter, she let out a sarcastic tweet where she showed pictures of Pittsburgh looking like it's damaged and destroyed and trashed everywhere. And she said, look at what the looters did. Oh, wait, no, that's not looters. That was the Kenny Chesney concert here in Pittsburgh, because every year when Kenny Chesney comes, if you're from Pittsburgh, you know people trash the city and it's disgusting and it costs hundreds of thousands of dollars to clean up. But on top of all that, what happened was the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette pulled her from being able to cover the protests. And then when the union realizes, when the union of writers at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette realizes, they all tweeted out the exact same thing in

solidarity to say, we stand with Alexis. And if you want to see this for yourself, look up the hashtag, I stand with Alexis. And you'll see all the people trying to support her. But even still, the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette continues to push and tries to silence her. They pulled another black photographer, Michael Santiago, off of covering the protest. And now they're even pulling off their articles that they've written and removing their bylines from their very articles that they've brought their Black voices to cover this Black revolution that's going on right now in our country. And what people are trying to do in here in Pittsburgh, they're trying to write to the Post-Gazette saying, I'm going to unsubscribe if you do this.

Think about how you can impact people in your area. You know, with Flint, Michigan, and how that community has had dirty water and unusable water for so long. They still don't have clean water. It takes people speaking up, and it takes white people speaking up. In every point in American history where we've had slavery, Jim Crow, Jim Crow 2, which we're still going under. I suggest you read Michelle Alexander, The New Jim Crow. It's a great book if you want to learn more about these issues.

And if it comes to housing discrimination, the Civil Rights Act, never at any point in time did black people need to do something to change the racism against them. We had to make it known that this was happening to us. But as Ross was alluding to much earlier in this show, the power to make the decisions, to make the change stands in white people's hands. In Selma, when the protests were happening, it didn't get national attention until white protesters started dying. And that is when it's not just death, but it's standing up for us and saying, hey, white people, we need help. We need help in these moments as well. Speaking out on it as voices, as voices and allies to us. And then the country can start to pay more attention.

So I say this to say, if you want to know how you can help out, you look around your daily life. You don't have to drive to Minneapolis to help out. You can look around your own neighborhood, your own community, and you can see, hey, this Black voice isn't being heard enough, or this person's being ignored, or this community isn't getting the same kind of funding as that community. And you can fight for them right then and there. And when they bring up the arguments, you let them speak, and you stand stand behind them and you say, I'm here to support them. You don't have to call off their message. You don't have to speak for them. Let them speak for themselves.

But you make sure that they get their day in court and their fair day to argue for it. And that's how you want to help us moving forward to say we want to make a better America. If you really want to come together, those are all different things that you can do it in your own life. you really want to come together, those are all different things that you can do it in your own life. To double down on what Chris said and basically sum it up real easy for me, systematic oppression, man, that's something that's been floating around Twitter. It's been floating around social media. A lot of people put it in hashtags like we've talked about multiple times. A lot of people don't even know what it means. So simply systematic oppression, when the laws of a place create unequal treatment of a specific social identity group or groups.

Another example of social oppression is when a specific social group is denied access to education that may hinder their lives and later life. To back up what Chris just said, systematic oppression needs to be done away with. It just needs to be done away with and everybody has to do their part. to be done away with. It just needs to be done away with, and everybody has to do their part. Black, white, it doesn't matter. Everybody has got to do their part to make the playing field even. You know what?

I think – oh, I'm sorry. Can I go? Go, Chris. Oh, okay. Go ahead. I think you just have to stand up for your rights, like you guys said. I don't know if you guys – I mean, I know what happened in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and I was frustrated when I saw that. But I don't know if you guys know what happened last week in the Philadelphia Inquirer where they had to headline buildings matter too.

Right. And, you know, that's my day job working there. And, you know, I saw that headline. And I still shake my head at it get frustrated well we all took we all like basically walked out the people of color and we didn't go to work next thing you know the executive editor i mean it wasn't really his fault but he had to go, you know, he basically had to go. And, and the thing is, what is, what I mean by fight is we have to, people have to realize that you can make a difference before there was always a time. And we always thought like, man, it's just going to be me. Maybe I can't make a difference. And some people can conform to things. But you have to fight. You have to fight. I mean, because it's not just for you.

It's for the people in your community who can't fight. You know what I mean? Like we look at it a lot of times we have people like you said, the thugs ain't out there marching. But see, the thugs look at you as if you are a person who can speak for them. Right. They do. I mean, everybody knows that there was somebody in the neighborhood that everybody was scared of, but it was something that he saw in you. And he always made sure that you were all right. You know what I mean? So what you have to do is when you see people like when you see stuff like that, you know what I thought about and what a couple of my coworkers thought about? We thought about the reason why we're all in this position that we are now is because we're speaking for the people in our community.

We are representing our community. We take pride when we go back to our community. I heard someone say earlier, like, hey, you know, stuff happened to them elsewhere, but they wanted to go back home. They wanted to be around their people. So what we do is we have to fight for our people. Everyone does, because that's the only way. Now, I know in the last segment I gave some kumbaya thing with the hope. I do believe that it's going to get better, but it's not going to change overnight.

That's why we have to fight. We also have to push for police reform, all that, because we have to get the bad cops out. Right now we have to push so hard because right now people are like looking and they see that stuff is wrong. So right now they're going to like say, okay, let's do this. So we have to get these bad cops out. Know why? Because our kids, so our grandkids could go somewhere and they don't have to experience the stuff that our parents experienced, the stuff that we're experiencing, and that kids who are in their early 20s are experiencing. So we have to continue to fight. And I agree with that. And that's very eloquently said, my brother.

I think we have to watch where we spend our money. When people don't respect you, but they respect your bread, then take your bread away from them. And that's what happened back in the civil rights movement with Rosa Parks, with the transportation system. It wasn't just about sitting on the bus just to sit on the bus. It's also what happened with apartheid and a lot of people in Atlanta with airlines and Pepsi and a lot of other companies. You have to know where you're spending your money and you have to not spend your money. I'm going to target from now on.

I ain't trying to step on nobody's toes, but the target, the owner, the owner of target said, Hey man, do you think, you know what I'm saying? So I'm going to start spending some money now.

I don't know. David might edit that out of there, but my thing is, is anyone that understands the plight of people that are disenfranchised, I'm in full support of because it's not just about black and white. I was in the military, right? So my father, who I met when I was 38 years old, was in the military. His dad was in the military. And he told me stories about his dad when he came home from World War II, how he had to hide in the woods from white people told me stories about his dad when he came home from World War II,

how he had to hide in the woods from white people that wanted to kill him because he was trying to get voting rights for people in Alabama. I try to warn people all the time is don't pay so much attention to laws. Pay attention to how those laws are enforced, because the Bill of Rights says we, you know, believe that all people are, we have a truth that all people are self-evident and all people are created equal, whatever. But then on the other hand, you're not allowing people to vote. So those laws aren't worth the paper that they're written on. that we galvanize whites and blacks and make sure that everything that's written in paper is actually being enforced for us. Because if it's not being enforced for black people, if you're a white person and you're in a certain class, oh, you're next.

Because, you know, once they get through with all the blacks, then they'll come to the poor whites and they'll treat you the same way. The thing is, what you have to do is we have to all be together, man. And I'm encouraged by the fact that there's so many non-blacks marching. I always said the five best words that a white person could say when they're trying to help a black person is now wait one damn minute. You know what I'm saying? Because see enough.

And I think with George Floyd, what they said was now wait, no, no, no, no, no, no. This is not going to happen. That's not who we are. I saw an old man in Salt Lake get pushed down by the police officer, old man with a cane and absolutely broke my heart. But the fact that that old gentleman probably was 70 some odd years old, he probably looked at this and said, this isn't who we are. This isn't who we are. And we have to realize that there are people out there that aren't African-American or Black that do realize that. And in our message, we have to make sure we have inclusion and owe people to the fact that they didn't understand previously what they now understand. We got to bring them all in, man, and that's the only way we're going to be able to fix it.

Yeah, I just want to sort of jump in and say, you know, it boils down to accountability. And Chris nailed it. You know, these issues go beyond police brutality. But it's one of those things that when you look at this sort of specific issue with sort of how police behave, and not just when it comes to black people, when it comes to people of all kinds. And I think one of the good positive outcomes that you've seen, particularly on social media. And one of the things that I've been trying to use my platform with retweets and whatnot is showing, you know,

this widespread sort of police brutality, not only directed at black people, directed at the protesters. You hear people, you know, uncovering stories of cops getting away with certain things. And it just boils down to accountability that, you know, you can't necessarily heal the hatred in certain people's hearts. But it is one of those things where at least when it comes to these police and their actions, I think a lot of it is that they know that they can operate without impunity and they're not going to be punished for it. I saw a story about a girl from New York a couple of years ago that was pulled over and she was raped by two cops.

And when she told the authorities about it, basically, you know, there's I think the story said that 35 states around the country where police can't get prosecuted for having sex with someone while they're on duty. And they can just simply say, well, it was consensual even when it was not the case. And it's these sorts of things, these sorts of behaviors that police are able to get away with. sorts of things, these sorts of behaviors that police are able to get away with. And they know that they can, you know, you know, Derek Chauvin can step on George Floyd's neck and he knows he's not going to get punished for it. And this is one of the things I think people need to really work on. And it's really about that accountability and sort of, you know, one of the things I'm hopeful about with this movement is I feel like we're really starting to showcase that these cops need to be held accountable for their actions and need to be punished. When they commit murder, they should go to jail for murder and not sort of get off in the way that the George Zimmermans of the world have been able to get off and just say, well, it's a he said, she said sort of situation, and I'm a cop. And so therefore my story is going to be believed. And, you know,

we've talked about it already, but you know, that's one of the benefits of everybody having camera phone where, you know, the video doesn't necessarily lie when those words can lie. So I think that's a big part of it. And I think that's something that people need to continue to strive for, which holding not only the police, but you know, their city governments, their state governments, their national governments accountable in, in fine ways, whether it's, you know, their city governments, their state governments, their national governments accountable and find ways, whether it's, you know, voting, whether it's, you know, as Tony said, boycotting certain things, find ways to hold these companies and

these entities and these institutions accountable for their misdeeds. When you talk about the police, and this will be real quick, when you talk about the police, that is an industry where 98% isn't good enough. 95% isn't good enough. Even though we look at 95%, we'll look at a past completion rate and say that's great. You know what I mean? That's a great day at the office. When you're a police officer, you can't be 98% good. You need the police force to be 100% good.

So going back to the statement of you got to get the bad cops out of there. You got to find a way to rest them through the system and get them out of there. So our kids and our grandkids have an opportunity and a chance. They are in a business where they have to be 100%. Yeah, absolutely. For me, three things. One, we as black folks funding our own millionaires and billionaires by supporting black

owned businesses. I think it's something that's incredibly important. There's something that Tony talked about in terms of knowing where we put, where, where the money goes. You know, just, just to point out that when people talk about defunding the police, it doesn't mean taking all of the money away from the police. It means redirecting a large amount of those funds so that instead of punishing crimes, we are proactively engaging in ways to prevent crimes. So finding ways to do that is where we're taking, you know, Los Angeles has a $3 billion police operations budget that they just took $100 to $150 million from, around 3 or so percent. took $100 to $150 million from, around 3 or so percent, but a humongous budget towards policing communities instead of putting that money toward after-school programs, putting that money toward providing homeless people with shelter and with homes and with abilities for rehabilitation, instead of putting that towards mental health and advocating in favor

of people getting the help that they need. So those things could be sort of addressed in a preventative measure as opposed to funding the reactionary measure that is the police and adjusting how it is and what types of things they sort of, what they react to, what they come for. I mean, if it's a mental health crisis, I don't need a sheriff showing up to my place. I need somebody that's trained to deal with that. And then the last and third thing is just the count. We've talked a lot about accountability, but understanding, and this is something that doesn't exist in our culture right now, that those police officers who wield weapons, who wield power and have not only prescribed power,

but also ontological power that they're born with, that they should be held to a higher standard than that of civilians, right? There's a reason why the military has rules of engagement. There's a reason why the military has things like the Uniform Code of Military Justice, right, to where there is a standard and a separate lift of accountability. You know, if the NFL can hold its own players accountable in its own way, separate from the law, why can't our criminal justice system do the same when it comes to the police? Why can't our police system do that same thing?

Those are three things that stick out to me that would cast long-term change and would save a lot of lives.