Locked On Titans - Daily Podcast On The Tennessee Titans - Tennessee Titans GM Finalists RANKED, Deion Sanders Impacts Titans & Sam Darnold Disaster
Episode Date: January 14, 2025The Tennessee Titans are now into the final round of general manager interviews and Tyler looks at the six finalists and ranks them from best to worst including Jon-Eric Sullivan and Mike Brogonzi at ...the top of the list. We got some wild NFL news on Monday night as the Dallas Cowboys have been in contact with Deion Sanders about their head coaching position. Sanders has said he would only consider a move to the NFL if his son were drafted at quarterback and with the Titans holding the number one pick, that makes this a very interesting story to watch. Finally, the Titans have been a team associated with Sam Darnold when looking at free agent fits, but after Monday night's loss to the Rams, the Vikings quarterback will at least be a cheaper option.Subscribe to the TicTacTitans Film Channel:https://www.youtube.com/@TicTacTitansTicTacTitans Merchandise: https://dixons-dream.square.site/shop/tictactitans-gear/C3AAPNWXSXA6SBYG3USV2I7R?page=1&limit=30&sort_by=category_order&sort_order=ascFollow Tyler on Twitter @TicTacTitansFollow the show on Facebook @LockedOnTitansPodSubscribe to the Locked On Titans YouTube channel:https://www.youtube.com/c/LockedOnTitans/videosSupport Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!Turbo TaxReady for stress-free taxes and the most money back, guaranteed? Head over to TurboTax.com today and get matched with your Expert—who’s ready to take your taxes off your plate, so you can focus on your day.LinkedInLinkedIn Jobs helps you find the qualified candidates you want to talk to, faster. Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com/LOCKEDONNFL. Terms and conditions apply.PrizePicksDownload the app and use code lockedonnfl to win $50 instantly when you play $5. You don't even need to win to receive your $50 bonus, it's guaranteed! Prizepicks. Run Your Game.Click Here: https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/LOCKEDONNFLGametimeDownload the Gametime app, create an account, and use code LOCKEDONNFL for $20 off your first purchase. Terms Apply. Download Gametime today. What time is it? Gametime.FanDuelYou can start the season with a big return on FanDuel. New customers can place a FIVE DOLLAR bet and you’ll get started with TWO HUNDRED DOLLARS in BONUS BETS - if you win or lose your first FIVE DOLLAR BET ! Visit FANDUEL.COM to get started.FANDUEL DISCLAIMER: 21+ in select states. First online real money wager only. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG (CO, IA, MD, MI, NJ, PA, IL, VA, WV), 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (WY, KS) or visit ksgamblinghelp.com (KS), 1-877-770-STOP (LA), 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN)
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The Tennessee Titans have announced the finalist for their GM position.
I'm going to rank them from first to worst on today's edition of Locked on Titans.
You are Locked on Titans, your daily Tennessee Titans podcast, part of the Locked on Podcast
Network, your team every day.
Welcome to the Locked On Titans Podcast.
I am your host, Tyler Roland, Titans fans.
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On today's episode, I am going to rank all of the Titans finalists
for the general manager position from my favorite to my least favorite
and remind you guys of the timeline we should expect to hear this decision.
Also, we got some huge NFL news that impacts the Tennessee Titans on Monday night.
Deion Sanders has been in contact with the Dallas Cowboys.
I'll explain why that matters to the Titans.
And Sam Darnold had a stinker on Monday night.
I'm going to talk about where I'm at with Sam Darnold as an option for the Titans this offseason.
Before we get into all of it, I do want to thank you for making the Locked on Titans podcast
your first listen each and every day.
Remember, Monday through Friday, Tennessee Titans content all year round, always for free.
Make sure that you get subscribed, stay subscribed.
It's your team every day.
Shout out to my everydayers out there.
Tune in Monday through Friday.
Couldn't do it without you guys.
If you aren't an everydayer, you need to be one because it's going to be a crazy offseason.
And I'm going to keep you up to date and as educated as you could possibly be
as a Tennessee Titans fan all offseason long.
We talk about the hiring stuff right now.
Going to dive into free agency previews, draft previews,
training camp previews, big offseason ahead.
Make sure, again, that you get subscribed, stay subscribed
to the Locked on Titans podcast.
But with that being said, I went live yesterday, did the show yesterday,
and we knew about five of the finalists for the Tennessee Titans general manager position.
But shortly after I finished the show, we got our sixth and what appears to be final finalists.
Say that a hundred times fast, final finalists.
But now we know the six names that the Tennessee Titans are going to have in-person interviews with.
They have already begun at the time that I've recorded this.
The Tennessee Titans have already done one in-person interview with a general manager finalist.
So things are moving quick.
And I even saw a report from, I believe it was Peter Schrager of NFL Network,
where he was saying the Titans are moving quick with this one.
We might even get an answer as to who their general manager is
by the end of the week.
And here is why I think that that is true.
Because the Las Vegas Raiders and the New York Jets
are also looking to hire a general manager.
And there are only so many solid candidates and there aren't a
lot of jobs out there. So you've got to make sure that you get through your interview process and
you offer the job to someone that you truly believe in before another team offers them and
they take that job. So the Titans are doing this the right way in my opinion, but they definitely
do need to have a sense of urgency about how they do it. Not to mention, I talked about this last week on the show,
but with how important the offseason is, free agency, roster decisions,
potential trades, trading the number one pick,
taking a quarterback with the number one pick.
Maybe if they want to fire Brian Callahan, changes to the coaching staff.
There are so many things that could happen in this offseason
for the Tennessee Titans that could create change
that whoever is going to be the general manager,
they need to get them in the building ASAP
so that they could start working on what their solutions are going to be
to all of these questions that the Titans have going forward.
So with that being said, my number one general manager candidate
out of the finalists are number one is John Eric Sullivan, the guy from the Green Bay Packers.
I've talked about J.E.S., vice president of player personnel, football lifer,
father is a football coach, was a football coach in the NFL,
great talent evaluator in the draft, has experience with scouting,
cap management, Jaffrey Agency, coaching search.
That is the top name on my list, Not to mention the connection with Chad Brinker.
Both of them worked together for 13 years in Green Bay.
I think he makes the most sense.
And again, if this general manager position
is what the Titans have described it to be to the NFL
and it is a true general manager spot,
then John Eric Sullivan's versatility makes a ton of sense.
Number two on my list, and again, these are my favorites to my least favorites.
Number two on my list is Mike Borgonzi from Kansas City,
the assistant general manager there, 16 years with Kansas City.
He's been involved with the scouting process heavily throughout his time there
and something I mentioned on yesterday's show, Mike Borgonzi was actually the point of contact for the
LeGarious Snead trade with Chad Brinker Brinker and Borgonzi were the guys talking over the
phone while those negotiations were playing out so there's a connection there to Chad
Brinker and Borgonzi is considered the top general manager candidate in the NFL right now period like
most people if you look at the guys who are getting interviews and have the potential to be hired
most people look at Borgonzi as the top guy he has been incredibly instrumental in building what
they have there in Kansas City including identifying Patrick Mahomes so that's obviously
something that is very appealing
to the Tennessee Titans and the Titans fans, I'm sure.
So those are my top two choices for sure.
After that, though, after that, we go to John Spitek.
John Spitek from the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
He is an assistant general manager.
He's worked his way up from director of player personnel,
vice president of player personnel and all that.
Heavy, heavy scouting background with John Spitek. He's worked his way up from director of player personnel, vice president of player personnel and all that heavy, heavy scouting background with John Spytek. He's worked his way up from a regional scout to a
national scout to a director of college scouting, all of that stuff. But Spytek has been interviewed
by the New York Jets and John Eric Sullivan actually just got interviewed by the New York
Jets. So I think John Spitek is a guy who
will most likely get a job somewhere
else and he is going to interview for the
Las Vegas Raiders
and
he was in Tampa Bay with
Tom Brady. So that
is a connection that we have to pay attention
to. Again, we can call it buddy-buddy
hires and all that, but the reality is life
is all about relationships anddy hires and all that, but the reality is life is all about
relationships and business and hiring and all that is typically all about relationships as well. So
it can't be a shock that people are hiring people they feel comfortable with, that they have
relationships with. I don't think it's that bad of a thing unless multiple of those instances,
like with Mike Vrabel, when he hired multiple of his buddies and it didn't work
out. Like that's when after you failed with your buddies enough times, now you need to hire outside.
So I'm not as annoyed with a connection like Borgonzi or John Eric Sullivan as maybe some
people are who want to call it a buddy-buddy hire. A lot of hires are buddy-buddy hires.
If they don't work, then you need to consider something else.
That's really the thought process there.
But number four on my list is Terrence Gray.
Terrence Gray, Buffalo Bills.
He's currently their director of player personnel, a college expert.
He's been a scout for over 11 years, longer than that, quite frankly.
The thing with Gray is he doesn't have as much experience with the operational stuff, like the salary cap and coach hiring. So that's why I have Borgonzi and Spytek
and Sullivan a little bit ahead of him. But then we take a drop down and my number five guy is Ian
Cunningham for the Chicago Bears. He was at the top of my list in 2013, but Cunningham has been
there with the Bears for a few years and I just haven't been impressed
with what the Bears have done or how they operate as a franchise so I'm a bit worried about taking
somebody from a bad organization are we just going to get more bad habits from a bad organization
like the Titans whether this is fair or not to the individual candidate I would just much rather
take somebody from the Packers the Chiefs the Buccaneers than I would the much rather take somebody from the Packers, the Chiefs, the Buccaneers, than I would the Chicago Bears.
That's really what it comes down to,
even though I think Ian Cunningham is incredibly qualified
and he's got the scouting background.
So I wouldn't, he's in my happy tier.
I would be happy about that.
Honestly, the Titans, all six of the five,
or five of the five, six of the finalists here
are guys I would be happy with.
The last guy on my list, though, who I'm most concerned about is Ed Dodds.
He's the assistant general manager for the Indianapolis Colts.
I just don't know if I want anybody who is involved
with what the Colts have been doing the last few years.
Reaching for Anthony Richardson with the fourth pick overall,
their conservative nature to building the roster,
doing absolutely nothing in free agency
and sitting on their hands.
The Titans have maybe been over-aggressive,
but the Colts have been ultra-conservative.
And I don't know if I want somebody who's
been on board with that. But
with that being said, that is my ranking
of the GM finalists from one
to six. Now I want to talk about
the big news in the NFL on Monday night.
Deion Sanders might be going to the Cowboys and that has an impact
on the Tennessee Titans.
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an official sportsbook partner of the NFL. Titans fans, let's continue today's edition of the Locked on Titans podcast.
We talked about my rankings for the finalists for the Titans GM position.
I think we're going to get news quickly on this.
We're going to see these interviews take place over the next few days,
Wednesday, Thursday, Wednesday,
Thursday, Friday, and I think we probably have an answer, I would say, by next Monday,
Tuesday at the latest. Sometimes the NFL wants to let the games breathe a little bit, and they
might ask the Titans to wait to make their announcement to let the playoff games breathe
on Saturday and Sunday. Didn't matter last night, though,
because during that Monday night football game
between the Rams and the Vikings,
we got monster NFL news.
And obviously, as most of you guys know,
I'm the lead host of Locked On NFL.
So I cover the NFL at large for Locked On also.
So I got to pay attention to all this stuff, why it's happening.
And immediately when you hear that Deion Sanders, prime time,
the Hall of Famer, has been in contact with the Dallas Cowboys,
you raise an eyebrow.
No matter who you are, no matter what team you like around the NFL,
that will collectively make the NFL ecosystem raise their eyebrow.
That's a very interesting story.
That's exactly what the Dallas Cowboys want as well.
They love being in the news.
But for a Titans fan, for a Titans fan, this is
extra, extra interesting. Let me explain why. If Deion Sanders really does come back to Dallas
to be their head coach, it would be on the condition, and this is something that Deion Sanders has said publicly
in an interview during the season.
If I came back to coach,
it would be because the team that is hiring me
is willing to go get my son to play quarterback.
So, if Deion Sanders came back to the Cowboys under the condition that they went and got his son,
that would mean that the Tennessee Titans are in a prime, no pun intended, actually, screw it, pun intended,
a prime position to fleece the Dallas Cowboys.
To absolutely fleece the Dallas Cowboys. To absolutely fleece the Dallas Cowboys.
So, you guys know, if the Titans want to take quarterback,
I'm okay with it.
I'm not going to be angry.
I'm not going to be mad.
Do I think it's the right thing to do?
Excuse me.
No, I don't.
I think trading down or taking Abdul Carter or Travis Hunter
would be a better move.
I would rather trade down and take one of these defensive guys
or outright take one of these defensive guys at number one
rather than take the quarterbacks.
But just because I don't want to take the quarterbacks
doesn't mean I'm going to be angry.
If they do, I understand the logic
and I'll be excited to see what the quarterback can do.
But considering that I think the best course of action
for the Titans is to trade down,
I would absolutely love to make a trade
with the Dallas Cowboys to trade down.
The Dallas Cowboys have pick number 12.
So what the Titans could do is,
this is very, very similar
to what the Titans did in 2016
that set them up
to make the run
that's been the second best run
in franchise history, by the way.
Really struggling, guys.
Got a bit of a cold.
It's freezing where I'm at. at sorry but I'm making my way
the Titans traded from 1 to 15 in 2016 when Jared Goff was the number one pick with the Rams
and then they traded back up to number eight to get Jack Conklin. So what if the Titans were able to trade back to number 12
with the Dallas Cowboys?
Then use all the picks that they got from that move
to trade back up to get somebody they liked,
like Abdul Carter, like Travis Hunter.
You know what I mean?
Like the players that we want at number one anyways.
So with this conversation, though,
immediately where people go,
well, let's trade for Micah Parsons.
Let's make Micah Parsons part of the deal.
I'm fully on board with that.
Sure, I'd take Micah Parsons and a first-round pick
in next year's draft and pick 12.
Give me Micah Parsons, pick number 12,
and a 2026 first-round pick. Boom. Deal is done. Happy with that. next year's draft and pick 12. Give me Micah Parsons, pick number 12,
and a 2026 first round pick.
Boom.
Deal is done.
Happy with that.
Micah Parsons is probably worth a couple first round picks,
quite honestly. So you're probably fleecing them there.
It'd probably be Micah Parsons,
next year's first round pick,
and 12, or maybe 12,
Micah Parsons,
and a third round pick.
You know what I mean?
It may change the calculus there.
Me personally, my number one option would be to get a first rounder in 2006,
a first rounder in 2026, 2027, and number 12.
I would take that for pick number one.
I would do that for Deion Sanders to come up
and get his son and draft his son
and be the Cowboys head coach.
I'm in with that.
Now, away from Micah Parsons,
a lot of people are like,
we're not getting CeeDee Lamb.
You got to let that go.
That ain't happening.
But a lot of people are saying,
what about Dak Prescott?
Now, while that makes the most sense in a vacuum,
the Cowboys trade Dak to us with some picks.
They get the number one pick to get Shadur Sanders
for their new quarterback spot.
Financially, it really doesn't make sense for the Cowboys.
The Cowboys would have to eat $100 million in dead cap
on their salary cap next year to get rid of Dak Prescott.
They're not going to do that.
That's not going to happen.
Okay?
Now, if they did, though, let's pretend,
then the Titans would basically have to absorb
$45 to $49 million.
That's what Dak Prescott's salary cap hit would be
with no more guaranteed money
because it's already been paid out.
But what the Titans would do
is they would restructure his contract
to lower that to around 30 or 25,
and then they would give him the difference as a bonus.
So it's possible for the Titans to make that happen.
But here's my thought.
It's way less possible for the Cowboys to do that,
and the Cowboys side is why that's ultimately not going to happen.
I don't think that they hired Deion Sanders anyway, if I'm honest,
but they're definitely not eating $100 million in dead cap
to do this.
So that's got, for me also though,
that's the kind of move that the Titans would make
if they thought they were ready to win.
And I just don't think they are.
So I don't want Dak Prescott.
I don't want to do that.
I want the picks.
I want the picks.
Give me 12,
give me first rounders in the next two years.
And then I can use that ammo to move around the board, or I can go after a quarterback in the
future and make a trade up because I have two picks and each of the next two first rounds,
like that is how you build a team going forward. We saw the Titans do something like that in 2016.
And that's what set them up on the course to become the good
team that we saw them be just a few years ago. So for me, I want the picks. I don't care about
the players. I don't think that's where the Titans are at right now, but ultimately, despite all of
this, I don't think that Deion Sanders is hired by the Dallas Cowboys. And I know that some people would say,
well, he'll just tell Shadur and tell the agent and tell teams,
we're not going to play for you.
That works when you're dropping to pick four from pick one
or pick two from pick one.
That is not going to work all the way to pick 12.
The NFL will simply not allow that to happen.
But with that being said, that is going to do it for this discussion.
Now, let's talk about another impact that
Monday night's football game
and NFL news had
on the Tennessee Titans.
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Titans fans, let's cap off today's edition of the Locked on Titans podcast.
We talked about my top choices for the GM finalist. We talked about Deion Sanders news and how that impacts the Tennessee Titans potentially,
although I don't think that it actually will at the end of the day.
I'll tell you why.
Deion Sanders has an $8 million buyout at Colorado.
Again, he said he would have to have his son.
Maybe that was a lie.
Maybe he's willing to come back without having a son.
And then the Dak Prescott, $100 million in dead cap.
Ultimately, I don't think that it's going to happen, but it could.
And that's my feelings on it.
But let's talk about Sam Darnold.
Because on Monday night, the Vikings choked like dogs, buddy,
and Sam Darnold was at the top of that list.
He looked awful, deer in the headlights, just taking sacks nonstop, bad throws.
I think of a throw across the middle to Jalen Naylor on a deep in route
where he was just wide open, and Darnold wasn't even close.
He threw it way behind him. It was terrible.
Darnold just played miserable football.
And it goes back to, I remember in the middle of the season
when everyone was on board with Sam Darnold.
You know what I mean?
Not everybody.
Not everybody.
But a lot of people were like, look how good he's playing.
He's definitely gotten better.
Sam Darnold in Tennessee.
I want to win.
Blah, blah, blah.
This and that. Well, I hope you win, blah, blah, blah, this and that.
Well, I hope you guys woke up to what I was saying, because I continued to say throughout
the season, Sam Darnold is the same guy he was in Carolina. He's the same guy he was for the Jets.
The difference is the Vikings are a better team with better players and better coaching. Sam
Darnold is still the same exact guy.
He was a guy who was supposed to go with the number one pick and ended up going with the number three pick.
It's not like he's not a talented player.
It's not like a guy who was an absolute bum
and then all of a sudden, like, you know, he got so much.
No, Sam Darnold is the same guy.
Baker Mayfield is the same guy he was in Cleveland.
Geno Smith is the same guy.
They just went to better
teams with better coaches and it made
them look better. They are not special.
They are not game changers. They
are simply game managers. They're
Ryan Tannehill's. That's it.
That's it. They're Ryan Tannehill's.
And I
honestly think that Ryan Tannehill has more
natural talent than Geno
Smith or Baker Mayfield.
Maybe not Sam Darnold.
But at the end of the day, the point is this.
None of those guys are game changers in any way whatsoever.
So I was saying,
I'm not paying Sam Darnold $40 to $50 million for multiple seasons.
Not a chance.
That's insanity.
And I know a lot of you guys agreed with me.
Some of you didn't.
But a lot of you guys did.
But here is the reality of last night's situation.
I don't think Sam Darnold's getting that much money anymore.
I don't think that's the case.
So, if Sam Darnold were $25 million, let's say the Titans gave Sam Darnold were $25 million.
Let's say the Titans gave Sam Darnold a two-year contract,
$25 million a year with only the first year guaranteed.
So basically you're only locking yourself in to one year of Sam Darnold at $25 million.
I would do that.
That's not 40 to 50 with multiple years guaranteed. you see the difference there of what I'm saying like I'm not saddling myself to Sam Darnold for multiple years of salary cap money
but if it's a one-year deal I would I would do that I would consider that and like because
previously people asked,
which veteran quarterback would you like the most in 2025?
Me, I said Aaron Rodgers, Derek Carr,
then Kirk Cousins, then Sam Darnold.
Because I didn't want to pay Sam Darnold
and commit to him for multiple years.
But with Sam Darnold's money being down, if you could pay him $25 million
for one season essentially, I know the contract would look bigger, but when you get
into the details, if it's one year $25 million for Sam Darnold,
I would take that over Aaron Rodgers,
Derek Carr, or Kirk Cousins for sure.
Now let me say this, though,
because I know that a majority of the comments,
or at least half, in reaction to that thought,
is, why would we want a veteran quarterback in 2025?
Why wouldn't we draft a quarterback?
Why do you want a veteran quarterback?
All those guys suck.
All those guys are mid all those guys
are well I agree with you let me say this I don't think people understand that when I am pushing
for a veteran quarterback in 2025 it isn't because I think they'll make the Titans better
I think the Titans are going to be bad no matter what.
I want a veteran quarterback in 2025
so that the franchise doesn't feel compelled
to reach for an average quarterback class.
And then what you're going to do is
when you fire Brian Callahan in 2025
and you get a new head coach in 2026,
now you're going to have a quarterback
that you took with the first pick in the draft who that head coach in 2026, now you're going to have a quarterback that you took
with the first pick in the draft who that head coach maybe doesn't even want. And maybe there
are good head coaching candidates who don't want whatever quarterback you draft and they don't want
to be your head coach because they don't want that quarterback for the next three years.
And it's not like Will Levis as a second round pick where you can give up on
him after two years and it's
not that big a deal. If you
take a quarterback with the
first pick in the draft, you're
not giving up on that
quarterback until his rookie
contract is over for four
years. So missing on the number
one pick quarterback is so, so
detrimental.
And I think that my guy, Will Lomas from Titan Size
brought this up.
I think back to 2013.
Is that when it was?
When the Titans took Jake Walker.
Instead of taking Tyron Smith,
one of the best offensive tacklers of all time,
or J.J. Watt, one of the best defensive players in NFL history.
And then because they had Jake Locker,
they didn't take RG3, they didn't take Tannehill,
they didn't take Cousins, they didn't take Russell Wilson,
because they had Jake Locker.
Don't reach on the quarterback position in a class that is not great.
All right? Don't reach on the quarterback position in a class that is not great.
All right?
So, yes, Sam Darnold, Derek Carr, Aaron Rodgers, Kirk Cousins.
They're all mid at best, terrible at worst.
They're terrible at worst.
Great.
Perfect.
Let's get another high pick in 2026.
Let's use the picks that we collected from our trade down, and let's go after a quarterback in a better class.
Think about Lenora Sellers.
I love, I love Lenora Sellers.
Love Lenora Sellers, South Carolina.
Obviously, Arch Manning could be out.
Garrett Nussmeyer, an improved version of Drew Aller.
And I know a lot of people are going to say,
well, Drew Aller's terrible, Nussmeier.
I don't like quarterbacks in 2026.
What would you have said about Joe Burrow
a year before he got drafted?
Joe Burrow was a day three pick
and then had a great last season at LSU
and became the number one pick
and an elite quarterback in the NFL.
We don't know.
We just don't know.
Alright? So, I think
the best path forward
is to keep your powder dry
here. And I don't know.
Again, I don't know if there's going to be a better
quarterback in 2026. I'm not
saying that I know for certain there's a better
quarterback next year.
But I'm skeptical of
Sanders and Ward, and I'm not willing to take
the risk on them. I would rather take the risk of waiting until 2026 and seeing what's available
there while having multiple first round picks in my back pocket because I traded down in 2025.
So I'm going to continue to explain this and to bang this drum throughout the offseason.
So if getting Sam Darnold for $25 million for one season
prevents the Titans from taking a shot on a risky quarterback class
over a bona fide position player like Abdul Carter or Travis Hunter,
then I'm fine with that.
Then I'll live with that.
Still don't think the Titans will be good, but my goal right now
is not to make the Titans as best as possible in 2025.
I'm more concerned about 2026 and 2027
because I don't think the Titans are going to be good in 2025
no matter what they do at quarterback.
Whether it's a rookie quarterback
or whether it's a veteran quarterback,
they're not going to be good in 2025.
So why would I make that my priority?
I'm going to prioritize 2026 and 2027.
But with that being said, that's going to do it for me today, folks.
As always, I am your host, Tyler Rowland, and this was Locked on tight.