Locked On Titans - Daily Podcast On The Tennessee Titans - TITANS SQUAD SHOW: Titans Must Go ALL IN for John Harbaugh

Episode Date: January 13, 2026

The Titans are reportedly in the mix for former Ravens head coach John Harbaugh, but the price tag could be steep: complete roster control. We debate whether Tennessee should pay the king's ransom, plus break down the worst and dark-horse candidates of this coaching cycle.Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!Rocket MoneyLet Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. Join at http://RocketMoney.com/LOCKEDONBetterhelpThis episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. BetterHelp makes it easy to get matched online with a qualified therapist.Sign up and get 10% off at http://BetterHelp.com/LOCKEDON.DripDropRight now, DripDrop is offering podcast listeners 20% off your first order. Go to http://dripdrop.com and use promo code lockedonnfl.Ultimate QBUltimate QB is totally free to play, has no ads, and works 100% offline — perfect for when you want to sneak in a quick game or two on the go. Just head over to http://ULTIMATE-QB.COM.FanDuelToday's episode is brought to you by FanDuel. So before tip-off, check the FanDuel app and see what’s dropping during NBA Happy Hour — every Friday from 6 to 7:30 PM Eastern.A little basketball, a little action, and a whole lot of Friday energy.PrizePicksDownload the PrizePicks app today and use codeLOCKEDONNFL to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup.Click Here: https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/LOCKEDONNFLGametimeDownload the Gametime app, create an account, and use code LOCKEDONNFLfor $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. Download Gametime today. What time is it? Gametime.ZocdocStop putting off your doctor’s appointments and get the care you need.Go to http://Zocdoc.com/lockedonnfl to find and instantly book a top-rated doctortoday.FANDUEL DISCLAIMER: 21+ in select states. First online real money wager only. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG (CO, IA, MD, MI, NJ, PA, IL, VA, WV), 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (WY, KS) or visit ksgamblinghelp.com (KS), 1-877-770-STOP (LA), 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Of course, John Harbaugh is the top candidate for the Titans, but what will it take to get him? We'll talk about that next. And we know who the top candidate is, but now there's 20 different candidates. I'm Tyler Rowland. Tighten up. Titan up. It's the Titans squad. Everything Tennessee Titans every week.

Covering all the big hits and game-changing plays from the heart of Music City, the way only the locked-on podcast network can. Squad up. the Titan Squad Show starts now. And welcome to the Titans Squad Show. I'm your host Julian Minnesone alongside my fellow co-host, Tyler Rowland. He's the host of the Locked-on Titans podcast. You can catch that every day wherever you get your podcast.

Make sure to like, comment, subscribe, all that fun stuff. And if you're live with us on YouTube, get your comments in the chat because we'll do our best to answer them throughout the show. It's all coach talk today for the listeners out there. We're going to talk about the worst candidates, the dark horse candidates who maybe people aren't talking about enough because there are a lot of candidates for the Titans, as Tyler mentioned, 20 candidates or nearly 20, I guess. Coaching stock versus playoff results. That's been a popular discussion on Twitter. Should that impact how you view a candidate, how they are doing in the playoffs?

Because we're obviously in the middle of that right now. But of course, we start with the number one candidate, I think, on most people's list, former Ravens head coach, John Harbaugh. Now, there are reports out there that he will be in the mix for the Titans job, among some other teams. Tyler, let me ask you. I know he's still your number one guy, but what are the chances the Titans actually get him? You know, I got to be honest with you. I think it's probably about 20%.

Maybe you could go to 25. I think there are realities. Look, I am a Titans fan. I've been a Titans fan for 26 years. You know, I understand the bias of, hey, my team's better than this team and the opening is better than this. But if we're going to keep it honest,

or as Cam Ward would say, You know, we're going to keep it a buck here. There are other teams that if you're a 63-year-old coach who wants to win right now and immediately come in with a chance to make the playoffs, have a competitive football team, all that. There are other options that are better for a guy like John Harbaal, like the New York Giants, like the Atlanta Falcons,

which is exactly what I said when he was fired, is that I thought he would be a better fit for those. So Harbaal is my number one candidate, and I would be over the moon to be wrong about this, but at the end of the day, I think if you're honest with yourself, odds are more likely that the Titans are kind of the third team in the mix for John Harbaal. And as I said on social media, I got a lot of pushback for, but I'm sorry, I think it's pretty clear that the Titans might be

just a team that's being used to leverage the Giants and things like that to get more for Harbaal because if you're honest with yourself, I think those situations in Atlanta and New York are more ready-made for an older coach like Harbaugh. Yeah, I'm cautiously optimistic because it's always nice to hear your name in the mix if you're the Titans, right? Like, oh, he made the cut. And there is some attractive there, as was reported, Harbaugh likes what he saw out of the tape he saw from Cam Ward. He likes the $100 million in cap space, the new stadium, the new GM who seems to have a good head on his shoulders. I'm cautiously optimistic because there are also reports out there of how much control Harbaugh wants, right? Him wanting final say over the 53 or him to pick his GM.

there are a lot of conflicting reports about that stuff. And if that is indeed the case, if that is the case, how willing is Borgonzi to give that up after just getting it from Amy Adam Strump? Yeah, I don't think so. Yeah, I don't think so either.

I mean, the whole talk when Borganzi was first hired with him and Chad Brinker was there's a lot of confusion and who has final say of the 53 and who overrules who. You're going to get that confusion again if these reports about Harbaugh are true. Yeah, we just got out of those woods.

I don't want to walk back into him. And look, here's another reality. Harbaal is my number one candidate, sure. But no candidate is a perfect candidate. Like there is nobody out there without flaws. And if you look at what Harbaugh's flaws are where this guy has blown more leads in the NFL over his head coaching career than any other coach in the NFL.

Like he is a guy who blows leads at the end of games. His teams have a hard time closing. He's had Hall of Fame talents, his entire career as a head coach with a great drafting organization in Baltimore. He's won one Super Bowl. Now, you know, whenever I say the negatives, people are like, oh, I thought he was your number one candidate. Well, I'm sorry, but like, can you not, you know, like,

what's Cam Ward's weaknesses? If you can't answer that question to me and you're like, Cam Ward's the best, blah, he has no weaknesses. then you're just not being a realistic person about the situation. So like with Harbaugh's downsides, he struggled to keep good coordinators. Again, the blown losses. He's not a scheme guy on the offensive or defensive side of the ball so you have to constantly replace coordinators and hire talented coordinators.

Not only that, but he's going to want a very expensive coaching staff along with his very expensive rate as a guy. I think if you put all the negatives in a pile, you can't say that, oh, not only are we going to, going to pay hardball everything he wants, but we're going to give him full control over the roster and go back to exactly the battle that we were fighting with Mike Vrable. At the end of the day, I do not believe that any, any, I don't care who you are, John Madden reincarnated. There should not be a single head coach who gets full control over roster,

who gets to say, overrule and say, we're drafting this guy, we're signing this guy. I do not believe that any head coach should have full autonomy over roster decisions because it just spits in the face of what a coach is trying to do. Your head coach needs to try to win today. Your general manager needs to try to win tomorrow. Those are two different things and they cannot be opposed to each other. This is why I was against Vrable having full roster control as well. I mean, we could go back and relitigate whether the Titan should have fired Vrabel or not. It seems clear that they shouldn't have, you know what I mean?

But at the end of the day, just because they shouldn't have fired Vrabel and that could be considered a mistake, that doesn't mean that I think that they should have given Mike Vrable full control over the roster and, say over every decision that the Titans made. That wasn't the answer either. So I don't know that John Harbaal truly wants that and I think pointing out Mike Borganzi is a good general manager, why would you do that if you just wanted to come in and overrule him on everything? That doesn't make sense to me. But at the end of the day, there is no coach out there. Bill Belichick, his career in New England ended up falling apart at the end

because he took too much roster control and he wasn't good enough at it. Like let coaches coach, let general managers build the roster and pick the players, I'm not giving John Harbaugh that sort of power no matter what. At the end of the day, I'm not okay with that. So he's my number one candidate, but there are, well, I'm not going to do that, though, even though I like you, but I won't do that. You know what I mean? That's where I'm at on Harbaugh.

Now we're bringing in two-time pro bowler and former Titans. Offensive tackle the legend, Brad Hopkins. And we're talking about the coaching search B-Hop. What do you make of everything going on specifically when it comes to John Harbaugh reportedly now having the Titans in his short list of teams. Well, first off, I think that Tennessee is an extremely attractive job for head coaches. The fourth pick of the draft, you've got 120 plus in cap space, you've got a new stadium looming, a lot of newness, a lot of ways for you to leave your impression, right?

I'm not sure that, you know, the whole general manager situation is as necessary. areas we've, you know, put it up to be. Because at the end of the day, you're creating a patrol of the marriage. I'm finding you your best suitor versus me going out and finding somebody I fall in love with on my own. At the end of the day, I want my assistance to look at the guys that are available to them, whether it's through free agency or through the draft, and say, hey, through conversations, through research, who can you best coach? That's got nothing to do with the general manager. And in most instances, general managers are just C-Swe. It's just people that are in the office that are really detached from what's going on on the grass.

You know, I can look at all the analytics. I can go to the combine. I can go to senior pros, senior days, all this other stuff. But at the end of the day, I'm not coaching them, not one bit, nor am I doing what they're asked to do. So the most important people are who? The leader of your franchise and the leader of your franchise should always be your head coach because that's who the players are listening to. The players are responding to coaching. The players are responding to leadership that a head coach.

gives him never a general manager. Floyd Reese was our general manager for a number of years, right? You know how many times he coached me on anything I'm doing? You know how many times he coached Steve? Javon Curse? Eddie? How much of a relationship do you have after just getting us into the building? As a matter of fact, I predate him.

Mike Hollivac was my general manager, right? He was the one that, you know, was the time ideal. but Glenn Cumbie was the scout that found me and basically put me on their radar. So I need to have people help me find the talent that's needed for me to be a winner, right? But then I've got to have the dudes that are coaching that talent

to be at their best and have the most cemented relationship they possibly can, so that way I get the most out of my players. We just talked, Bhop, just mentioned, I guess, right now, like what makes Tennessee such an attractive job with the Capspace, the new stadium,

GM, Camor, what would be a reason Harbaugh wouldn't want to come to Tennessee, you think? Small television market. It's unfortunate. Jacksonville's living off of it right now. What are they saying, we're just a small market? We're just a small market. Because at the end of the day, I mean, sure, we've got, what is it, CSI, Nashville or Nashville fire or some.

Nashville 911. Whatever it is. And that's probably our biggest claim to fame, you know what I mean? At the end of the day, you know, we have Beverly Hills 9-0-210, you know, down here. So it's still a small market. You know what I mean? That's comparatively speaking to, you know, those cities that have four and five professional franchises through a gambit of different sports. You know what I mean?

So but then again, that's the lure of Nashville. You know what I mean? So what I say could be used as a negative is probably a positive traffic like that bad. You know what I'm saying? It's like paparazzi aren't jumping out to bushes everywhere. You know what I mean? That kind of stuff for our celebrities. So it's still a place that's easily.

navigable and it's fun. People are nice here generally. You know what I mean? It's not a whole bunch of, you know, stuff in your face to have to deal with. I think that's something that we, that we, I would like to get a coach on truth serum and ask them that question. Like, I could see the prestige of being in New York. You're probably going to get better media deals. There are going to be better business opportunities in a bigger city and a bigger market. But the downside of that is the media in New York City, is way harsher. You're going to have, you know,

you're going to walk through the grocery store in Nashville and people are going, hey, coach, how are you doing? Good luck this year. But you go to New York, they might throw something at you. You know what I mean? So it's like the double-edged sword. But Brad, I think the first thing you said is a great point. And I've had some people when I say,

I don't think Harbaugh is going to come to the Titans because he's going to go to other places. I've had people say, well, the Titans are a great job. Well, I'm not saying that. I'm not saying the Titans are a bad job because I think Harbaal goes elsewhere. I think Harbaugh's interest in the Titans and them being one of the actual three or four teams that he does have interest in, even if he doesn't pick Tennessee and they're not his top two teams.

I still think that's a great sign for the attractiveness of the Tennessee Titans opening. If the resounding number one candidate on the market takes you seriously and really likes you, it's like, what do they say when you make a dating profile? Brad, Julie, you guys may not know. You guys know I love adding in the dating world advice into this one. But when you have a dating profile, what do they say? make sure you have some pictures with some girls on your dating profile because it makes other girls feel comfortable

if they know that other girls are comfortable around you and if other girls like you and you're desirable, that makes you more desirable to other girls. That's just the law of attraction in the way humans work. So the fact that John Harbaugh likes the Titans and thinks we're cute, you know what I mean? That's going to make other coaches think the Titans are cute too. So I think that although Harball,

I think that Harbaugh may be using the Titans as leverage here to get to the Giants or the Falcons and get more out of them for his staff, more what he wants, this and that. But that doesn't mean that it's all bad and it's a negative. It's actually a positive in my mind. And the reason that I think, you know, people ask that Atlanta or New York is a better option. And Brad, you make a good point of the media market, that can factor in.

But I also think if you're honest with yourself, which, you know, fan is short for fanatic. Maybe some people are not able to be honest with themselves. But look at what New York has on the roster. Premium positions. They have a wide receiver 1 and Malik neighbors who injured, but he's going to be back. He's young. Andrew Thomas, one of the best left tackles in the NFL. They have a young quarterback who some people, I know Titans fans may not believe this,

but some people around the league do think that Jackson Dart is a better player than Cam Ward and would rather have Jackson Dart than Cam Ward right now. I'm not saying that's the overwhelming sentiment, but that's certainly a sentiment in the NFL. You have Abdul Carter, a young edge rusher who did a lot better late. Brian Burns, Kvon Thibodeau, Dexter Lawrence on the D line. Like, I'm sorry, but Atlanta, we don't even need to, I mean, look, Bejohn Robinson and Drake London and Kyle Pitts and Chris Lindstrom on the line, and James Pierce and Jalen Walker and Jesse Bates and Xavier Watts and A.J. Terrell.

Like, it is just so obvious that Atlanta and New York are more ready to win next year. If there's a team that can do like what the Jags or the Patriots did this year and flip it around real quick, it's not the Titans, it's the Giants or the Fouts. Those are the teams that would be more ready to flip that thing around. So I think that you can say that the Titans aren't the best option for Harbaugh, but it's not a negative on the Titans as much as people want to turn it into. Yeah, yeah, Tyler, that's an interesting point because Harbaugh, I didn't realize it's 63 years old.

Yes, older than Mike McCarthy as well. And he just spent a long time with Baltimore. And how willing is he to be a part of a little bit of a longer rebuild? No way. So that's interesting. Also, you mentioned the quarterbacks. If you really like the quarterback and you want to tie your success to him, if you really believe in that player,

then maybe you're more inclined to overlook some, bypass some of the deficiencies, whether it be in the organization or the roster or whatever have you. So we'll certainly see, but it is good news that the Titans are in the mix for the golden goose of the coaching cycle in John Harbaugh. We're going to take a quick break here. On the other side, we're going to talk about the playoff results.

and if they impact a coach's stock. That's next on the Titan Swad show. Keep it here. All right. If you've ever hired someone who looked good on paper but wasn't the right fit, you know how important that is. I think the Tennessee Titans know how important that is, especially this past year with Brian Callahan.

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think so. I don't think it's fair. And quite honestly, this is a problem with society nowadays, not just a football conversation of whatever you did for me lately is who you are. You could win 100 games in a row. But the moment you lose one, you're a loser. That's how Twitter talks. That's how social media talks is whatever you did recently. I mean, Cornell Tate is going to be one of the best wide receivers in the entire NFL draft, but he had a bad catch attempt and didn't have a great game in Ohio State losing in the playoffs. And now he's a bum. Like that's just how, that's just how everybody acts. And I just simply don't buy that.

Just because Chris Shula, the defensive coordinator for the Rams, you know, the Panthers scored 27 on them in a playoff game or, you know, just because we see different defensive coordinators who could make a ton of sense. Like if Vance Joseph comes out this week and the Broncos don't win against Josh Allen. Like it's not like Vince Joseph is now all of a sudden a bad defensive coordinator and things like that. So I try not to not to let too much of that influence. You've got to look at people's body of work. What have they done the entire time?

Now, if there's some disaster performance like Arthur Smith's offense against the Houston Texans, you know, on Monday night, then maybe you look at that. But I'm just not a fan of taking a single game and using that to extrapolate your entire opinion about a candidate. So, you know, like Chris Shula is a perfect example. I had a bunch of people, oh, this guy just gave up 27 of the Panthers. He can't be a, yeah, but his defense has been cutting edge and incredible all year long. So none of that matters anymore because his team. gave up some points in a playoff game on the road like I just think we got to be careful about using too much from one game to make our opinion

you got to look at people's body of work and go from there because people have bad days everybody's a human being nobody's perfect so I try not to put too much stock into the playoffs now a playoff run it you know if a coach has a great playoff run I think that does mean something but one single individual game I just don't fair it's I just don't think it's fair to make your make your entire point based on that. But at the end of the day, that's easier. It's harder to go through every game that Chris Schulles coached and make your determination. You know, it's really easy to do. Put it in the microwave, hit the button, pull it out. I watched one game.

He sucks. I have an opinion now. I have a strong take. I'm informed. And that's just how people act. And I just can't get down with that. Eops. You know, I think that one year is completely different than the next.

on a team because you've got people that are coming and going. There's different energy. There's coaching attrition because coaches want to get better jobs or maybe one's not doing his job and he gets fired. It's just new dynamics. I mean, look at the defending champion Super Bowl, the Super Bowl champions of Philadelphia Eagles. They lose Kellemore.

Their offense is obviously not near as functioning as it was last year and they are bounced out in the first round. So that just kind of goes to show you. that even if you have the nucleus of guys together like Sequin and Jalen and Jalen and Jalen Carter and all these other guys, you know, on both sides of the football, is that's going to guarantee you that you're going to go back. Ask anybody how hard it is to get back to the playoffs, let alone the Super Bowl. It's extremely hard. So if you're a guy that's even gotten into that realm where you coached in a playoff, that means that you, you know, you're an elite in that situation because there's only eight teams to get the chance to play for a Super Bowl. you know what I mean so at the end of the day I will never gauge or judge somebody on the fact that you know hey this guy you know

don't don't do well in the playoffs well hell he got into playoffs that speaks a lot to me you know what I mean and you know those coaches that have lost the locker room they can't that cannot communicate with their guys that just the message is stale and no one's listening and they just don't even respect the dude that's somebody that obviously shows that hand early on and they'll be bounced out it's just the way it is this is a results-based industry people get fired when you don't win, and it's a short shelf life when you think about it. So at the end of the day, they're going to do what's best for them. But I think that playoffs shouldn't necessarily be the indicator as far as whether not a guy has value or not. You're on mic. You're Mike. Brad, from a player's perspective, what do you want more in a head coach?

Do you want somebody who can put you in a position to win like a scheme guy who you know, hey, this guy is going to outsmart the other coach every single week. Or do you think it's more important to have the guy who holds guys accountable and is more of a leader as a coat or as a player, what would you be more interested in between those two options? I think it's a tough question. Yeah, you know what I mean? It's tough. Yeah.

I just think at the end of the day, you know, how do you lead men? How do you inspire guys? you know, it's one thing to put them, you know, to put them into position because you've taught them. But when you're talking about professionals, usually what they've done to get there is about as good as they're going to get. You know, I mean, I don't really see guys getting into the league and just becoming completely different players. You know, you showed that kind of potential when you were in college. You might get better simply because of time and, you know, you just experience and all the other stuff. but at the end of the day, I think that these, you know, if you can inspire me to run through a brick wall,

if you can instill love, that way I really feel passion who I'm playing with, and I will go to the ends of the earth for you, you know, then that's the kind of commitment that every coach wants his team to have, that brotherhood, you know what I'm saying. That's what D'Amico Ryans was talking about in Houston. You know, they're talking about the swarm. The swarm is a collective, right? the swarm is a bunch of different moving parts that are just in one common goal attacking something or taking control. It's not like a lion or something singular that can just have to defend itself or just, you know, whatever.

A swarm is a bunch of different things that are coming together to take down the opposition. I think when you talk about leader, I think the Titans at least, Mike from what Mike Borgonzi has said is certainly on the right track. He said, I don't care if it's offense or defense. And we've seen that with a list of candidates that they have. I just want the best leader. And I think they found that out the hard way with Brian Kallan, who was that scheming kind of offensive mind this past season and it clearly didn't work out.

Going back to your point, Tyler, you know, I think a perfect example of like the body of work valuing that is somebody like Josh Grizzard, right, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers offensive coordinator. Remember at the start of the year how hot of a name he was in the coaching cycle. They had Baker looking like an MVP and Tampa looking like an outside shot to go to the Super Bowl. They fizzled out fast and he gets fired. and now his name is like nowhere to be fine.

Like they're interviewing Brian Callahan for their offensive coordinator position, right? Which is crazy. Which is crazy. So I think that is a certain example of not letting the playoff results, you know, dictate who's in and who's out of a candidate, but rather the entire body of work. My question to you guys is there's a lot of candidates the Titans are interviewing. Are they interviewing too many? Do you guys think?

Well, I just want to say this real quick. When I say that's crazy, I don't think that it's actually that crazy. for Tampa Bay to interview Brian Callahan to be the offensive coordinator. I'm saying it's crazy that, you know, Grizzard was as hot as he was, and now they're interviewing somebody totally different. That's the crazy part about it. I'm higher on Callahan as an offensive coordinator than maybe, you know, scorned Titans fans are going to be.

But Julian, I do think at some point in time, you want to turn over every stone, but at some point in time, you're smacking the stone against your head. Like, you need to have a focused approach. It's like, you know, go look at war history. or somebody who pays attention to war tactics, often what gets these, you know, empires to fall is they spread themselves too thin. Napoleon Bonaparte, Genghis Khan, you know,

the Germans in World War II, they spread themselves too thin, and that's why they were vulnerable for attacks. That's the way that it worked. And Brad, you're making that face, but go look at Germany's attack on Northern Africa and how it ruined their defenses in Europe. Germany was vulnerable in Europe because they spread their empire,

far and tried to attack too far and that's what got them to lose. They weren't prepared for the attack. That's just, you know, world history. There are many people who tried to do stuff like that and they spread themselves too thin. So I think, you know, not to compare Mike Borgonzi to some of the worst people in the history of the planet or anything like that. But I think it shows a lack of focus. Like, what are you really looking for and are, there's no way they've interviewed 19 guys or will interview 19 guys. It's 18 without Harbaugh. Certainly they'll speak with Harbaal at this point. But, you know, how many of those guys are serious candidates? Now, we could talk about, hey, maybe they're interested in them for a coordinator position under a different head coach. Hey, it's a fact-finding mission.

How would you use our players? What would you do with our roster? It's information gathering. But at some point, you need to have more of a focused attack because if you go into a grocery store without a list and you're just like, oh, I'm just going to check out everything. No stone unturned. We're just going to go through every aisle and see what's there. You're probably going to forget some essentials that you actually do need.

So I think we're not quite there yet, but I think the Titans list needs to stop right now. We're at 19 people who they've requested or interviewed so far, including John Harbaugh, if you put him in there. And I think that's about enough. There is a point where it's paralysis by analysis, and you're spreading yourself a little too thin, because just think about the resources of researching these candidates, vetting them, checking with sources, checking their references,

The amount of work that has to go into doing a proper interview with these people, I'm sorry, but there's no way that you're getting the maximum amount efficiency out of these interviews if you're doing this many. So I think we may not be above the break yet, but there is a line in the sand where I think too much is too much. And I think they're getting pretty close to it. They need to start narrowing down instead of continuing to build the list. My wife is a talent acquisition manager for a company.

so I hear her constantly talking about the pipeline and engaging with her hiring managers to find out exactly what they're looking for so that way she can source the right candidates. She'd be very proud of me if she heard me talking this language right now because I'm obviously not in that business. But the thing is,

what is the difference between the first candidate and the 19th candidate? It's usually a lot. Your first candidate was somebody you really, really wanted. And if everything worked out, you probably wouldn't even have the next 18, right? But you've got to do your vetting, right? Right. But there's a difference between one and 19. There's a difference between one and 18, 17, 16, 15. So at some point in time, you're getting further away from what you really, really want. You see what I'm saying? Within the first five, you can have a good idea, especially if you have your top five of what those guys bring as far strengths and weaknesses. And you're going to want to see if that does fit what you actually have as a program. And that's where marriages are made. At the end of the day, it can get redundant. But you do find out a lot about yourself. That's a great.

observation, Tyler, about you doing some internal investigating by this asking the candidate questions about how they see things and what could be a difference maker. And you're taking those ideas and maybe even formulating what the position actually now looks like that you're hiring for. But like I said, at the end of the day, they know who they want. And if they can get them, they'll get them. But then it comes down to your second choice. If that guy's not available, your third choice, your fourth choice, your fifth. It ain't going to get to 19, fellas. So it is a little over the top. I think it's funny how we heard.

Now, they didn't end up doing a request for Matt Burke of the Houston Texans. Now, the Texans are still alive. Maybe they will. He's the defensive coordinator. He calls the plays on defense for Houston. They were supposed to do Anthony Campanelli, who's the defensive coordinator of the Jacksonville Jaguars. They did get with Lou Anerumo,

the defensive coordinator of the Indianapolis Colts. And I'm sorry, but I have a hard time imagining that Mike Borganzi didn't say, how you know what do you think is the best way to stop cam ward what was your plan to attack cam ward oh okay so next year when we play you we know we know what you're going to try to do i think you know there's there's obviously some of it in there right but i'm with but i'm with you brad the 19th candidate is nowhere near as talented is the number one two and three and four so at some point it's just like why are you interviewing this dude who you're not going to have any interest in whatsoever like jason garratt is a good example

of an eye roller. But I think Garrett, Garrett is a guy who ran the air coriol system, which is an air raid type system, which is what Cam Ward played in in college. And that's not a system that is there's a lot of people who know a lot about it. So I think that is a good example of a fact finding mission. Hey, if we want to go with a more air raid style, what would you do? Jason Garrett is a guy with experience in that. But yeah, I think at some point you're wasting your resources. You only have so much time. You only have so many people in the building. You can only call so many people and vet so many things and at some point you got so many dollars in your hand and if you spend one dollar on every item you're not going to get the quality items that you need that cost five dollars so i i think

they are right on the line of spreading themselves a little too thin here and and they need to start going the opposite way i do appreciate at least mike morganzi for his first head coaching search as the guy to at least i think that's something too julian not to step on not to step on you there uh classic broadcast term but i think that some of these early interviews with candidates that were less appetizing to the Titans, like Jason Garrett or, you know, like a Lou Ann Arummo, Mike McCoy, who they gave an interview, those probably were warm-up interviews for Mike Borganzi, who was a first-time general manager doing a first-time hire of a head coach. So he needed to kind of warm up and practice too.

And I think some of these, you know, maybe the 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th ranked candidate might have been more about getting Mike Borgonzi ready to go for the real interviews than otherwise. I hate to devalue the candidates in that way, but they are realities that we have to acknowledge. Indeed. Rice School actually said in our comments, once I figured out what I needed to ask for, he said he used to have, he used to hire people for his last job. And he said, as the first time of value-ered employees, it took me quite a few misses before I truly figured out what I needed for.

So that initial list of candidates that we talked about in the last show that were like, I'm not really inspired by this. Maybe that was the eating the veggies part, as you mentioned it, Tyler. That's a great point, man. Just an excellent, I don't know how to rascal. I guess rascal. That is an absolutely excellent point. And whether you're an NFL general manager or whether you run an IT company or a McDonald's,

you know what I mean? Hiring is hard. Hiring is hard. And there's a lot of carryover when you hire people regardless of what you're hiring for. So thank you for putting that in the chat. That's that's really good, really good experience to draw from. Coming up after the break, we're going to take a quick break, but we're going to talk about maybe who are the candidates we don't want,

and maybe a dark horse candidate that has caught your eye that maybe not a lot of people are talking about for the Titans job. That's next here in the Titan Squad Show. Stay with us. All right, let's be real. No one wants to start a business for the joy of calculating tax withholdings or managing payroll spreadsheets. That's where Gusto comes in to take the stress out of payroll, benefits, and HR so you can focus on running your business and supporting your team. Gusto is an all-in-one remote-friendly payroll and HR platform that makes managing your team simple, transparent, and fast, whether you're hiring, onboarding, or paying employees.

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But are there candidates that stick out that you absolutely don't want? And then is there a candidate maybe that nobody or not a lot of people are talking about that could be a dark horse in your eyes that you would think would do a good job in Tennessee? Hey, I'm Captain Negativity. We got to let me start on this one. This is my prime right here. I thrive off negativity, the old mean from the blood documentary. But I mean, there was quite a few candidates that I just have zero interest in whatsoever.

I do a little thing on my show where I do things in tears. I do hype, happy, and hate. There are guys I would be hype about, guys I would be happy about, and then guys I would hate. You know what I mean? And any of these guys who just don't make a lot of sense, and I don't think that I am breaking a lot of news when I say some of these names. Matt Nagy, Arthur Smith, Mike McCoy, Jason Garrett, Luanerumo, Steve Spagnola.

I mean, these are just guys who are DOA to me. Just the idea of them is dead on arrival, in my opinion. And we can get into the individual reasons why with those candidates. But when you have 19 candidates, I'm sorry, that's, you know, eight or nine guys right there who I'm just not interested in whatsoever. and I just don't see the appeal in any way. So that out of all of the, are there any guys that I just mentioned

that you guys disagree with me on and you take those candidates more seriously than I am? Mike McCarthy. I didn't say Mike McCarthy. I didn't say. Yes, you did. Oh, I didn't mean to then. I think I said Mike McCoy.

I meant to say Mike McCoy. I meant to say Mike McCoy too. Oh, okay. Well, I like Mike McCarthy. If I said him, that was a misspeak. You said Art Smith. I like Art Smith. Yes.

Okay. Why? I like Art Kna. Because Art Smith, first off, he's the basic fundamentals of football he gets. You can get as creative as you want to trying to move that ball down the football field. But at the end of the day, it's about bludgeoning the guy across the line of scrimmage from you. And he will commit to that. Because no team that has been successful has had a bad run game. It's almost impossible because the run game is synonymous with so much more than just simply handing the ball off to a guy.

Physicality. That means that everybody's blocking. and not just the front five with the offensive line. You're talking about tight ends, receivers. They're all blocking to make the run game possible. And if you're engaging like that and moving the ball down the field, working on the other guys' side of the line scrimmage,

that to me is how you win ball games. And that's what Art Smith predicates his offense on, running the football. I mean, if you think about it, the team that actually threw the football the most, especially over the last few years, has been Sean McVeigh and the Rams, right? They ran the most 11 personnel by percentage

of anybody and what's even closest, close in their situation. They've run more 13 personnel this year than anybody in the National Football League and look where they're sitting. Look where they're sitting. Yeah.

I would be interested in Arthur Smith more as a CEO than an offense. Like if I would be more open to the idea of Arthur Smith if he wasn't going to be calling plays. Yes, he's an offensive guy. He's going to have his hands on the offense. But I would like a more, my struggles,

with Arthur Smith or offensive coordinator related things. I don't like the way he deploys his personnel. I don't think he uses his best players enough. I think he tries too much to rotate guys in and out. In this and that, he runs too many trick plays and Sissy Foo-Fu plays, as I like to call him, you know, little jet sweeps to the tight end and things like that. But I do agree that Arthur Smith has a good understanding of the game of football.

And if he were to come in as a CEO-style head coach, which he wasn't in Atlanta, and hire an offensive coordinator to actually call the plays for him, I would be more open to Arthur Smith as an option. So I will meet you halfway there, Brad. Gotcha. Somebody you didn't mention, Tyler, that I'm a little skeptical on that their name has been popping up in the chat as Mike McDaniel,

only because he won some games, right? And that offense looked pretty in 2022 and 2023 when they got to the playoffs, right? We still remember the 70-point game that they hung up on Denver. And he won some games. And at a time this year, the dolphins looked like they were going to be the worst team in football. And then they ended up being kind of in it still with a few weeks to play. The only thing I'm skeptical when it comes to Mike McDaniels is when you're a team trying to establish an identity in a culture, is his, I don't take myself too seriously kind of shtick?

Is that kind of what you want when you're looking for like Bhop put it a couple weeks ago, somebody that walks into the room with a lot of weight. Yeah, I don't think he commands a room, and I think that's what the Titans desperately need right now. And I have some examples. Like, this isn't just, hey, he wears Capri Pants and has a goofy haircut and blah, blah, but. Like, think legitimately throughout the season for the Dolphins.

Jalen Ramsey revolted on that team early in the year to get a trade and get out of there. Tyreek Hill has been acting out nonstop and, you know, peace signs, and saying he wants traded and this and that. And those guys are known divas. so maybe it's not... But there are divas all over the NFL

that head coaches have to manage and the only ones that get our attention are the ones who are acting out and can't be handled by their head coaches. Tua has said some weird stuff. Remember when Tua criticized Cam Newton and said, you can't talk about it unless you've been on the field and done it?

Well, Cam Newton was an MVP in the NFL. What are you talking about, bro? Like, why are you saying this weird stuff that he couldn't get a handle on Tua's comments all year long? And then on the field, in critical games, remember when they played Buffalo and they came back and they almost beat Buffalo on prime time early in the year. They had three terrible penalties in that game or three terrible mistakes, I'll say,

that killed them in that game. They had two unnecessary roughness, unsportsmanlike conduct penalties on two of their captains, Jordan Brooks at linebacker and Zach Seiler on the defensive line, and then Tua through one of the worst interceptions we saw all season long. Those are three of your captains making three boneheaded mistakes in a big game that lost you the game. If your captains are your most undisciplined players, I'm sorry, that is a pinpoint on your leadership. So now we could say this too though.

The Dolphins started 1 in 6, 1 and 7, and they ended up 7 and 10. So his team didn't quit on him. They stayed bought in. They stayed competitive throughout to the end of the season. So there are examples on both sides to say his leadership isn't good enough. And hey, maybe there are some leadership traits in there for Mike McDaniel. But I agree with you, Julian. and that's why he's in my second tier of coaches

because I'm just not certain he can command a room and lead an organization in the right way. And I think that's what the Titans desperately need are the biggest issues on his scouting report. Behop, before you go, because I know you got a heart out here in a little bit, is there any other candidate that catches your eye outside of Arthur Smith that maybe people aren't talking about enough?

Well, the ones that catch my eye, people are talking about, right? but the ones that I will be curious about, you know, the Joe Brady's, Chris Schu, maybe not so much, maybe not so bad, you know what I mean? Antonio Pierce, I don't know, maybe. Vance Joseph. That's one. Yeah, it could be some, you know, but it's hard to affect the offense, which is one of the more pivotal parts of running a team, you know,

is play calling, all other stuff. And if I've got to farm that out to somebody, you know, that makes me kind of expendable. because my job is basically defense. It's kind of hard to be a Bill Belichick unless you find yourself a Josh McDaniel. It's hard to be a, you know, think of somebody else that's defensive-minded

that has farmed it out but then had a lot of success because he didn't have to tinker with the offense. And what ultimately happens is those good coordinators then get thrown into the head coaching hat, carousel, whatever else, and then they're gone. You know, I mean, you've got to find somebody else. Just ask Nick Seriani. You know, Nick has himself a good one in Kellan.

And Kellan starts doing some good things. And same thing that happened with Ben Johnson, right, Dan Campbell? Same thing happening. Yeah, Dan Campbell, yep. Exactly. So it happens, but I would want to find somebody that, like, Sean McVeigh has the playbook in hand, is really directly affected with the development of my quarterback because he's actually the mastermind behind what's going on.

So in other words, if Brian Callahan had Andy Reid-type weight, it'd have been awesome. You see what I'm saying? And I'm not saying that because Andy's big. I'm just saying because Andy has had success wearing a green jacket and a red jacket. it. You know, so, you know, he's good. He's good. Now, also, I think Mike Tomlin, first off, the Steelers might be forced to do something. You know what I mean? Because Aaron won't be back next year, I don't think. I'm supposed to have to get in the crap beat out by the Texas defense like he did. He's only so much a 40-something year old can take, right? But at the end of the day,

maybe that ship has sailed a little bit, but it's not, that doesn't mean that Mike Tomlin can't coach. I tend to think ESPN will offer him more of a Tom Brady type sweet deal to get into the booth versus that. And I think he'll take that over less stress of coaching and all the crap. In other words, instead of listening to all the people criticizing, he gets to do the criticizing. You know what I mean? In his own colorful way, you know what I mean? So I don't know that he'll be available.

But, you know, I do, I think that my top of the list would be a Kevin Stefansky, John Harbaugh type. John Harbaugh, what makes John so unique guys is the fact that he touched in his previous position as special teams coach, he touched every position, every player. Offensive coaches don't coach defensive players. Defensive coaches don't coach offensive players. But a special teams coach, he coaches the offensive line, coaches defensive line, coaches the linebackers, he coaches the secondary. He coaches receivers. coaches running backs because they're all in different unique situations for the field position game. You know what I mean?

So he works with him all. That's what makes him uniquely qualified to kind of lead men because he speaks so many different languages. That's why he, in my opinion, should be the guy that Amy looks at extremely hard and does whatever possible to get him in. Because think about this. If that boy don't miss that field goal, the Ravens are still in the playoffs right now. We're not even talking about John Harbaugh's availability. But for the third straight years, some hankiness has happened,

whether it's Zay Flowers dropping the ball before the goal line or, you know, Mark Andrews dropping the ball. And then this weird, very makeable kick that just goes to the right. You know what I mean? It just sucks. But he's still a good coach. They're still one of the – we're still one of the revered franchises in the NFL nowadays. So we're good.

I think that's a great point, too, and that's what made Mike Vrable a special coach. is because of his experience game planning on the offensive side of the ball when he was with the Patriots because he played that tight end package with the Patriots. He was involved in install meetings on the offensive side of the ball, and he experienced how coaches, because he had to work with the tight ends. And he experienced being coached by offensive coaches and being coached in offensive scenarios and was a defensive player with all that defensive experience.

So I think that point you make about Harbaal touching every type of player on a roster, Brad, just an incredibly great point about Harbaugh's, you know, talent as a coach. Indeed, all roads leading back to the John Harbaugh discussion, of course. That is a reason why he is the top guy on a lot of people's list, I think, including ours as well. Okay, we're going to answer some quick questions after this break on the Titan Squad show. Make sure to stay with us.

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and grab your profit boost pack every NFL playoff game. And we were talking about Mike McDaniel, Tyler, and somebody brought this up. Hugo O.M. 4PF says McDaniels as an OC and Sala as head coach. Now, I got to say, as a media member that would cover the team every day, it would be a blessing to have Mike McDaniels up at the podium because I'll tell you what, Nick Holes, no disrespect to him, never used any of his sound bites in any of our shows.

McDaniels definitely would use it, just from a selfishly media perspective, like how he is and obviously like that. And I think he would be fit better. I'd be more open to him as an OC than I would to as a head coach, let him scheme up and like you mentioned, mad scientist kind of stuff. I am warming up to the idea of Robert Sala, however.

And I know playoff results don't impact, at least throwing a candidate out or not. However, I do think you can raise or lower a stock. and seeing how that Niners team played for him short-handed throughout this entire year, right? The idea that he got the most out of the guys that he had, that is something that I don't think Brian Callahan was able to do. Now, the question is, Tyler, and I'll pose this to you, is some people are also just better coordinators.

And that is going to be the big debate when it comes to a guy who has been a head coach before, but is all of a sudden back in the cycle like a Robert Sala? is he just a better defensive coordinator? What do you think of what Hugo O.M4PF had to say about this suggestion of the coaches? Well, number one, this is an excellent pairing and something that I've been talking about for a few weeks now, going back to before the season even ended. And Julian, when we talk about, you know,

you don't want to overreact to one game in the playoffs and let that either tank or totally, you know, raise from the dead somebody stock. What happened in Philadelphia with Robert Salas' defense matches what's happened all season. They were last in the NFL in sacks. They were last in the NFL in pressure rate. They don't blitz because that's just not what Robert Sala wants to do schematically.

They run fronts, which leaves them susceptible to the run game. If you remember when the Titans play them, Tony Pollard went up for 100 yards in that game. But regardless of all that stuff, losing Nick Bosa, losing Fred Warner and all the pieces that they've lost, they have still been a great defense throughout. And the Philadelphia Eagles have had their struggles on the offensive side of the ball. There's no doubt about that. but they have the most expensive offensive roster in the entire NFL, and Robert Sala shut them down.

Like, it wasn't like San Francisco's offense was absolutely dominant like it had been the last couple of weeks of the NFL season. That was, you know, the defense kept them in that game on the road. So you're right, that could be a concern. But maybe I'm just, maybe I'm helmet scouting here, Julian, in a sense. But Sala's just got that look of a leader to me. He just got that. He is a guy who can command the room and garner the respect of players.

And you look at his time in New York, he went 7 and 10 in back-to-back seasons. He dealt with Zach Wilson as a quarterback. He had Aaron Rogers, Achilles tear. And I think that Woody Johnson is the worst owner in the NFL full stop period. And I think it's pretty clear that if you're paying attention, Robert Sala was forced to take Aaron Rogers and Nathaniel Hackett. Aaron Rogers wanted Nathaniel Hackett to be his guy on the offensive side of the ball. So he had no choice.

The owner forced him to take a bad offensive coordinator and keep him for a couple of years. So I think that Salas' time with the Jets was tainted by the ownership that is the worst in the NFL, in my opinion. But it's 100% fair to think, hey, maybe this guy is just a coordinator. And even though there are candidates that I like that don't check this box, there is data to suggest that if you have a winning, record as a coach, you're going to have a winning record again. And if you don't have a winning record, very rarely do coaches have a losing record in their first chance and then have a winning record in their second chance? It just simply doesn't happen like that. So I think that

there are reasons to be worried about Sala. But one of the things I like about Sala the most is what we're talking about right now is his potential to hire a good offensive coordinator. Him and Mike McDaniel are best friends. Like not buddies, not coworkers, their best friends, okay? So Sala, as a head coaching candidate, even though he's a defensive side of the ball guy, he gives you the opportunity to tap into the Kyle Shanahan offensive tree, to tap into the Sean McVeigh offensive tree, and that makes the biggest knock on Robert Sala, him being a defensive coach and what that means for the uncertainty of the offensive side of the ball. That makes that concern lessened, in my opinion, because he has access to one of the most revered sets of

offensive coaching and talent in the NFL. Think about a guy. I know that it didn't work before, but Mike Lafleur, Matt Lafleur's brother, who is the offensive coordinator for the 49ers. Think about guys in L.A. or Mike LaFleur might be with the Rams right now. But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But he had been with San Francisco before. Think about a guy like Nate Shieldhop House, who is the Rams passing game coordinator right now. Like the connective tissue between those coaching trees would give Robert Salah a better advice. advantage than maybe a Vance Joseph or Rahim Morris or, you know, Brian Flores. It may give, it may give Sala a better opportunity to fix the biggest issue with his candidacy, which makes it very interesting to me.

But that's one of the best possible pairings that the Titans could put together, in my opinion. Yeah, I just think of the image that I saw this past weekend with Sala, the first one smiling, running out on the field for his guys, and then the way he was hyped going back into the tunnel to the locker room after beating Philly. It just screams like, you know, that alpha dog mentality, even though I know Mike Borgonzi said that gets overblown. I do think there is something to having a commanding presence to certainly Sala seems to have. That's something that we know matters, Julian. We as human beings, you could say that's reductive or all that surface level analysis.

But as a human being and as an adult man, you have been around people in your life. And, you know, other people have been around. I hate to be like, I'm an alpha dog. But at the end of the day, I am a leader type in my area. I command people's attention and blah, blah, blah. And I'm not saying that I'm a leader like freaking Robert Sala or anything like that. Like let's be honest about what we're talking about here. But at the end of the day, the point is you can feel it, folks.

We're human beings. Our instincts are the vibes. There's a reason that stuff matters. It matters. You can feel, you can look at a guy and be like, oh, that guy can lead people. Oh, that guy can't. It may be reductive. It may be elementary analysis, but it's real because we're human beings.

And that human judgment, that instant judgment, that feeling that you get in your belly when you see somebody or whatever, oftentimes that's right. So I'm with you there. He has the look and I believe it. Yeah, certainly indeed he does. I wanted to get to this funny comment before I get to our last question of the day. Jake Ryan 221 put off topic. but am I the only one to think that Jesse Minter looks like Nate Bargotsie's lost brother? Nate Bargotsie is obviously a funny, famous, funny dude comedian,

Nashville-based guy. He kind of does, actually, looking back at it. You mentioned Robert Salon, the job he did against the Philadelphia Eagles. Well, this is kind of an Eagles-Titons-related question. Would you bring A.J. Brown back? Trade Ridley in a fourth for him. I don't know if you think that gets it done, Tyler. but obviously the smoke is up for A.J. Brown right now because of dropping that crucial ball

on that final drive for the Eagles against Philadelphia. Well, they've been on the outs all year. Like, there are, you know, A.J. Brown is a classic diva wide receiver. My favorite wide receiver of all time is Terrell Owens. So you're never going to catch me hating on A.J. Brown for being a diva. I want a guy who is like A.J. Brown. I love high-maintenance diva wide receivers like that. It might be something I like to see, something I feel familiar with people like that.

I just like them, you know what I mean? The overaggressive diva high maintenance personality. It might be something that I identify with. The representation matters, you know. But let me just speak to two different things about this question. Number one, would I bring AJ back? Absolutely. Would AJ want to come back?

This is a guy who's not happy in Philadelphia. He's going to come back to Tennessee after back to back three and 14 seasons. Guys, AJ Brown is not coming back here. He wants to win. He's not coming back to Tennessee this season. And, you know, Jeremy, I'm sorry, that trade, nobody's taking Calvin Ridley's money right now. And a fourth round pick,

I think A.J. Brown will be traded for a second round pick and then maybe a day three pick on top of it, a fourth or a fifth, something like that. But the second round pick will be, you know, the highlight, the centerpiece of any trade for A.J. Brown. He isn't worth the number one that he was worth, you know, however many years ago it was that he was. traded now four years ago. He isn't worth that anymore just because of age and

contract and wear and tear and all of that. But the reality is I would love AJ Brown back on this team. I think his skill set is perfect for what they need with Cam Ward but if AJ Brown ain't happy in Philadelphia he's not coming back to Tennessee and I think oftentimes it's nostalgia and people people yearn for how things were more than they yearn for A.J. Brown or Derek Henry back on the team. It's it's how AJ Brown and Derek Henry made you feel years ago is the feeling that you're searching for, not the player itself.

Indeed. One thing that is for sure when it comes to the Titans roster is that Mike Borgonzi will have $100 million, exceeding $100 million in cap space to work with, as well as a flurry of picks. But first things first, he's got to get that head coach right. And of course, we're going to cover it for you all off season long here on the Titans squad show and on the Locked on Titans podcast with Tyler Rowling. Make sure you like, comment, subscribe, wherever you get. get your podcast and we'll see you guys next time.