Lords of Death - 5 | Psycho Killer

Episode Date: December 9, 2024

Tips pour in from multiple sources detailing the Potts’ murders. Everyone is pointing fingers, but who can be trusted? Subscribe to Tenderfoot+ for an early access binge to episodes 1-5 and ad-free listening - https://tenderfoot.tv/plus/. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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But if you want to hear the whole season right now, it's available ad-free on Tenderfoot Plus. You'll find the link to subscribe in this episode's show notes. You're listening to Lords of Death, a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals participating in the podcast. This podcast also contains subject matter which may not be suitable for everyone,

including themes of murder and sexual violence. Listener discretion is advised. Gary Alexander, that motherfucker is a piece of shit. I don't even know why Gary's breathing air at this moment in his life because he's such a piece of shit. Back in 2018, I received a tip from Tim Terrell's cousin, Gary Alexander. He told me that one of Tim's close friends, a man named Pete Gravens,

had intimate knowledge about the Potts murders. After Pete caught wind of what Gary told me, he called and left me this angry voicemail you're hearing now. You should call me. I can tell you some fucking stories, dude. I have fucking knocked out more fucking people in this town, and I am loved in this town,

but Gary Alexander is a piece of shit. Oh, man. Pete wasn't too happy about Gary's claims and was quick to shut them down, but he didn't exactly distance himself from the murders. Instead, he shared an interesting connection between his family and the Pottses. My dad was a deputy sheriff in Guernsey County

and he watched over the Pottses and I was friends with Timmy. But when them fucking murders, I wasn't even around. But I know him. I know who you are now. From Tenderfoot TV, I'm Thrasher Banks. This is Lords of Death. Thank you. All right, so tell me what you know, Pete.

What? I know Gary's a fucking moron, and half that stuff that he told you is a lie. Why he's doing that, I don't know, because he's jealous of everybody. Everybody hated him before he left here. This was my first conversation with Pete Gravens after he heard that Gary had implicated him in the Potts murders. How do you know Gary? I grew up around him and Timmy. I knocked Gary's front teeth out. So what's that all about? He was an asshole. He deserved it. And that's been 30 some

years ago. I figured that's why he brought my name in it, because he's always been pissed off at me for punching him in the mouth one time and knocking his front teeth out. He ain't the only one I've knocked their front teeth out. You know, we did some fucked up shit back in the day. Gary, I can guarantee you did at least 30 fucking burglaries. That was a kleptomaniac-stealing motherfucker.

I was patient and allowed Pete to make his case about Gary's credibility, but I didn't call to talk about Gary's petty crimes. I wanted to know the truth about the Potts murders. Help me straighten it out. Dude, I've never been to the Potts' property, and my mom and dad worked there as a security guard for the Sheriff's Department. My dad was a security guard there. I wasn't even around during that shit. Everywhere my dad worked, I showed up to his fucking job on a regular basis just to bullshit with him,

trading vehicles or something. I was always wherever my dad was. You may remember from an earlier episode that Lela's niece, Patty, hired Buckeye Guard Security to monitor the Potts' property after Homer's murder, which lasted a month or so. Well,' property after Homer's murder, which lasted a month or so. Well, it turns out Pete's dad, Joe, was the security guard who worked there and stayed

on the property. Pete's argument here doesn't really make sense. Just because his dad worked security at the Potts' property doesn't clear his name, but it does raise a lot of questions. doesn't clear his name, but it does raise a lot of questions. Let's assume Gary is right and Pete was involved in the murders. Well, his dad, Joe, would have been alone with the only witness. On top of that,

Joe was a special deputy for the sheriff's office investigating the murder. If information emerged about Pete and Tim's involvement, Joe was in a unique position to tip them off, which apparently wasn't unusual for him to do. He kept me out of jail because he would tell me who was good and bad around here, who they were watching and who they weren't.

My dad never once looked at me and told me that he thought Timmy was involved with that shit. My parents were down there, and if my dad thought Timmy had anything at all to do with that, he would have told me, dude. If he thought Timmy was involved with that, my dad would have pulled me off to the side and said, hey, they think that he did this. They did think Tim did it. No, my dad was a cop that didn't think Timmy did it. Pete was unwavering in his defense of Tim. But what about the accusations that he was involved in the murder? What was his alibi? All you gotta do is check and see when I was locked up in Lancaster, Ohio,

or when I was in Connecticut, because I was not around during them murders. I'm pretty sure I was in Lancaster prison. What were you in there for? I drove a car because of some B&Es, and they caught us all, and I was the last one to go to court over it. At the time,

I took Pete for his word on this. In the summer of 1985, he was caught breaking into a school with Tim. So it made sense he would have been in prison when the murders happened two years later.

I can agree to disagree with you on this fucking Pops bullshit, dude. Because some of it has made sense. Some of it hasn't. And I trusted Timmy, and I never fucking thought for once

that he had anything to do with them Popses and shit. I seriously don't think Timmy had anything to do with fucking Mr. Pops. Now, if he was following for the second part of that, maybe, I don't know, because I wasn't around. Did I think he was capable of doing stuff like that? Hell yes, if he was drunk. While Pete doesn't believe that Tim had any involvement, he does admit that Tim is capable

of murder. But we can't leave out Jim, the supposed leader of the Lords of Death, who's alleged to be involved in both Homer and Lela's murders. So I asked Pete what he knew about Tim and Jim's relationship. They were friends when friendship meant something. They were brothers when brothers meant something they were brothers when brothers meant something they have some history together they have some secrets probably yes but did they kill leela todd i don't think so but i'm not gonna tell you yes or no dude because i wasn't there i don't know i think if timmy would have done that he would have told me because me and him were that close he takes his friendships fucking seriously.

Timmy's a loyal pup, but Timmy was a follower. Timmy wouldn't fucking think of doing some stupid shit like that. Timmy wouldn't go out of his way to do shit like that. If it happened, it happened because he was there to impress them or he was there because of them. Like I said, I can't fucking, I can't see Timmy doing it unless he was there doing it because of them. That's the only way, dude. And is he capable? Yeah, with the alcohol and that. The thing is, you need to get into their heads, and you probably won't be able to do that.

You could. Oh, I know I could, but I got more loyalty to him. Timmy's never going to fucking tell on nobody. And in that fucking sense, I'm not going to tell on him for anything. I know that he's done wrong that not going to tell on him for anything. I know that he's done wrong. It's going to cause him any more grief. You honestly, you don't think they killed Lila and then

bailed to Florida a few days later? I don't know what they did, but I don't think they did that shit together. I'll be honest. I don't know what to make of Pete. We had several phone calls like this that went on for hours, and he would message me almost daily. Sometimes to make of Pete. We had several phone calls like this that went on for hours, and he would message me almost daily. Sometimes to talk about Tim. Other times,

he'd just send me obscene material, like a video of a crocodile dragging a human corpse in a river. The truth is, Pete made me uneasy, so I played things pretty slow to build trust, which I now regret. There were so many things that never got to press him on before his health got the best of him. So are you in remission or what? I went and had radiation and chemo last year, so it's supposed to be gone. I'm just suffering the after effects of it.

I'm supposed to be cancer free now, but. How you feeling? I'm still alive and kicking anybody that gets close. In July of 2019, Pete passed away at the age of 55. But that wouldn't be the last I'd hear about Pete Gravens. A few months later, I received this random text from an unknown number. It read, I have inside info.

Missing pieces of the story. I want peace. I know too much. Pete was Tim's best friend. He wasn't just one of your sources. He was a protected accomplice. LOD was on Pete as well. In January of 2020, about six months after Pete Graven's passing, I received a text from an

unknown number claiming to have inside information about the Potts murders. They also seemed to have intimate knowledge about Pete, insinuating that he too was a member of the Lords of Death. It reads, I spent two weeks with him before he died.

He had many confessions before his death. He told me about weapons and bodies in his yard. You should get people to dig up his land. Pete didn't go for Leela, but was there for Homer. Tim was an accomplice for both. Pete's job was to drive and be a watchguard. He stabbed Homer two times, killing the poor man. Mrs. Potts hired them to get insurance and inheritance,

but she didn't pay the agreed amount, explaining the brutal results of Timmy getting pissed. Eventually, I'd learned that the person texting me was Pete's former brother-in-law, Jason, who was married to one of his sisters in the early 90s. He'd often hang out with Pete and Tim before Tim moved to Dayton. I was skeptical about his claim

that Pete was involved in Homer's murder because when I spoke with Pete, I took skeptical about his claim that Pete was involved in Homer's murder because when I spoke with Pete, I took him at his word that he was in prison when the Potts murders happened. So I decided to pull Pete's records to see if his alibi checked out. And surprise, it didn't. Pete went to prison in July of 1987,

almost six months after Homer's murder. He was released in January of 1989, so Jason's right that he couldn't have been involved in Lela's murder in October of 1988. So I decided to give Jason a call to see what else he knew. Pete was always a driver, like the backup guy, you know,

watch the back door, drive the car, like whatever it could do to keep him out of the gory shit, because he couldn't even change a diaper really, Pete. But I do know that Timmy was involved in both. Pete was in one. He was in Homer's. Layla was actually, that was an insurance scam. She was looking for people. She had him off because of the settlement she was going to get. And, you know, her parents giving Homer the rights to her inheritance. It always made her mad, apparently, according to them. Or I should say to Pete, because Tim, he wouldn't say shit, but just smile.

So according to Jason, the setup went like this. Pete was the driver and tasked with guarding the back door. Tim was supposed to knock on the front door and kill Homer. But things didn't go according to plan. And when they went in the front, only Lita was in there. So you think Pete saw him getting away and hopped out of the car and finished him off? Yeah, I think he was already out back waiting. What do you think motivated him to keep communication with me? Do you think he was trying to control

the narrative? Oh, of course he tried to control everything. He would just say, you know, Tim didn't kill the pot. I'm not laughing at you, brother, but that's him. He told me I had a lord of death trying to steer my narrative this whole time. Well, there it is, buddy. And as far as Jason's claims about Pete's involvement in Homer's murder, I found some of the details compelling.

Jason said Pete stabbed Homer after he ran outside, presumably to try to ring the bell, which would explain the lack of blood throughout the house. His account is similar to what Tim's cousin Gary told me, except in Jason's version, Tim and Pete were hired by Leela to kill Homer. In Gary's version, Jim was attempting to rob Homer and ended up killing him. Then, Leela said if Jim spared her life, she would give him all of the insurance money.

The problem with Gary and Jason's claims is that they were missing a key detail. How did these guys know Homer and Leela in the first place? The only possible connection I could make at the time was through some documents I found inside the box my mom gave me. Notes written by Tim's parole officer that detail his life back in 1987, the year Homer was murdered. He said that while Tim was in between various factory jobs, He said that while Tim was in between various factory jobs, he would do random work for farmers and other locals. I didn't think much of it at the time because the pots aren't mentioned. But one day, I received a message out of the blue that would help validate this. It came from one of Tim's former stepkids.

I'm leaving out their name to protect their privacy, but here's what they had to say about Tim. He was a normal guy, fun and easygoing, but something always felt off. I always tried to find things out about him and never fully trusted him. He always made random comments or told stories that haunt me to this day. Because I was an oblivious child

and never assumed the worst out of people, they always were just stories. But the older I got, I wondered if they really were just stories. He would make comments about how to kill someone with items from a toolbox. I told him it was impossible to stab someone in the skull with a screwdriver. And he said, with enough force, it's possible. I know. That's how he told me about the pots. And then I asked about how they died.

And he said, painfully. He was a handyman. That's how the story went. They were working for the pots, doing handyman things. I don't know exactly what that entailed. But at the time, in a small town, when people did work for you or helped you out, they would invite you in, give you drinks,

let you use the restroom, cook you meals. So Jim was inside the house and saw a stash of money. He told Tim and they planned to confront Homer about giving them more money. They felt shorted and that they were made to be fools. He told me that the old man wouldn't give them the money. He was supposed to pay up, but backed out. The wife was warned and she failed too, so she had to die.

He creeped me out and I didn't want to talk about it anymore, so I ended the conversation and walked away. Like I said, was he just telling me a story? Or was he reliving something he did? Nick is the one who told me it was Tim and Jim. I always thought it was a joke. He said they confided in him. I blew it off as a joke. Like seriously, my stepdad is weirdly confessing a crime to me and his prison BFF is confirming they were there? To me, this version makes the most sense because it offers a direct connection between Tim and Jim and the Pottses. It also suggests a motive, a stash of money at the house. But if this was going to be my shot at establishing a motive,

I need to be sure of it. So I pulled Homer's estate documents from the county probate court. And sure enough, Homer had over $18,000 in cash assets when he was murdered. And after speaking with Homer and Lela's nephew, Tim, I'd get even more confirmation. Patty had gotten some money from the house the day after Homer's murder.

Lela was in the hospital because she asked me to go with her. She was afraid to be carrying that money around, and I went with her to the bank to have that put in the safe box. The information I received about Homer's murder offered up a motive for why Lila was killed 20 months later. According to Jason and Tim's former stepchild, Lila was supposed to pay Homer's killers, but failed to do so. So let's re-examine the days leading up to her murder.

On October 23rd, 1988, Tim, Jim, and Margaret broke into Bob Henthorne's gun store and stole an assortment of firearms and ammunition. They stashed the guns at John and Margaret's trailer in Buysville, a couple miles from Lila's house. The next night, Martha Cole's service station was robbed by two masked men with handguns. They cut the phone lines at the scene, just like at Lila's. When Detective Van Horn talked to Martha, she didn't identify the culprits. But according to Bob Henthorne, who was robbed the night before,

when he spoke with Martha, she told him who was responsible. So I drove up there to see the old lady, see what I could find out. And she was telling me about them coming in there and robbing her, and I don't know what all else they'd done to her. Tied her up in a chair and left her. She just told me it was Jim Tubble, and I don't know if she said Terrell or not, but she told me it was the Tubble boy.

So what about the next night? Was Lila's murder the finale of a three-day crime spree? Sure, I've heard stories from multiple people at this point that they did it, but that won't bring justice for Homer and Leela. Even Detective Van Horn said it would take a miracle to solve it at this point. Since I started my investigation, several people with valuable information have passed away. There's Bob Henthorne, Tim's brother Terry, his cousin Gary, Winthorne, Tim's brother Terry, his cousin Gary, and Pete Gravins. And Van Horn, his memories of his days in law enforcement have faded away. At this point, the only hope is that there's a witness out there with a first-hand account of what happened.

And while I haven't been able to find that person yet, I was about to get one step closer. A few years back, I connected with a woman named Trisha who claimed to have information about a witness to Leela's murder. I was 18 when my mom came home from work and told me that a woman had came into her office that had been at the Potts murder when Leela was killed, was there, was present during that. And my mom was crying when she was telling me, by the way.

My mom is terrified, she's crying, and this is not my mom's personality. And was saying that this lady came in and said that she had been there and was forced to participate. Trisha's mom worked at Guernsey County Drug and Alcohol. It's not clear who this woman was that made these claims. She started opening up to my mom before the murders. They would go to this cemetery across from the Potts house Tim liked to sacrifice little animals and he would lay out his Bible and he would have his candles and he would do this whole big ritual they

would drink the blood of the animals they would do this whole thing he was like the priest you know what I mean he was the little Tim this is where he was not little this is where he shined. If you would be sitting up where this cemetery was, you could see the Potts' house. This cemetery is behind the church where the car was parked the night of Levo's murder. When she first told me this story, that Tim held rituals in his cemetery and sacrificed animals, I thought it might have been exaggerated over the years. It happened during the satanic panic and all. But multiple people who were close with Tim

have confirmed these claims. I don't know where it came up with the idea to go over there or how that happened, but I know then this woman didn't want to be involved in this thing with Leela, but Didn't want to be involved in this thing with Leela, but she was scared for her life and terrified. She was on drugs when this happened. She describes to my mom the very gruesome stuff that was involved. They made her, she either held the knife, held her down, stabbed her, something that she had to be involved in.

She was threatened that they will kill her if she ever said a word, but she watched what she witnessed them do to Leela. She wasn't just killed. She was tortured. They didn't just kill her. This girl had to hold her down while they torture. They were torturing her. And Tim was laughing as he was torturing this lady and, like, stabbing and doing heinous things to her, really sick things. And my mom was crying. The woman was saying about Tim being so evil inside that home, like he had no soul.

Getting pleasure out of what he was doing she knew he would kill her she had no doubt tim terrell would kill her she feared for the her life there and again there was she wasn't alone it wasn't two people there was at least two guys it was a little group and she was terrified of them kept mentioning Tim especially but there were other names but Tim's the one that was in my head but I'm sure she's scared for her life today. Trisha's mom shared the information with law enforcement but it's not clear what happened after that. You don't say something like this in a little office where this office is connected with every judge, police, probation, court, law enforcement. You don't work there, have a woman come in and say something as famous as the Potts murders in this town,

as heinous as Lela Potts' murder, to name names. Because I guarantee every law enforcement in this town understood his name that day if they didn't know before that woman went in that office. But later on in life, when my mom found out he killed a prostitute, my mom was so upset and enraged because she said they let a murderer go. They knew he did it then. That lady told the truth. But how can we be sure of this?

We can't identify the person who made these claims? The first person who came to mind was Margaret, since she was Sean's girlfriend and was arrested with Tim and Jim for the gun store robbery. I've reached out to her on several occasions, but she's declined to speak with me. However, back in 2018, I spoke with one of her relatives

whose identity we're keeping anonymous. They sent me this message the details conversations they had with Margaret over the years. Here's what they had to say They were into satanic rituals. So that's what they did They really believed in the devil and sacrifices. They believed the devil's work was unfinished What I've been told is that Tim killed quite a few girls back in the day, and Jim and his brothers were involved. They used to drive around in a van, and Tim would be in the back, and they would pick up girls, some were prostitutes, and Tim would kill them.

A prostitute in Florida was the first one I heard about. Then after that came the Potts and other stories. The story she told me was that they robbed a store the night before and that they went to Lila's because they'd been told she had a lot of money stashed in the house. Tim took a screwdriver, looked at Jim and said, I can make her eyes pop out of her head. Then he stabbed her. She said the first time he did it, he got mad because it didn't go through.

So he kept doing it until it did. She said they came home with a trash bag full of money and a photo album. There was money in it. Old coins and $100 bills. They used it to get to Florida. She said they wanted her to testify back then, but Jim threatened her. A couple of things stand out to me from this account. Information that only someone with direct knowledge of Lila's murder would know.

Like the fact it took several attempts to get the screwdriver to go into Lila's skull. This matches up with the autopsy report. Then there's the photo album, which we heard about from Pete in the last episode. Both Pete and this anonymous source said it contained money that they then used to get down to Florida. At this point, I feel like I've done everything I can to answer what happened to Homer and Leela Potts. Now it's time to bring this full circle, because there's still another murder I need to try to make sense of. The one that started this whole thing, Cindy Kozad.

When I spoke with Pete, he made a random comment in reference to Cindy's murder that got me thinking. Like I said, that's what made sense about the fucking girl up there is that he wanted to impress Mick

and say, look, now I know your secrets, now you know mine, now we can do stuff together. Pete suggested that Mick was roped into murdering Cindy the same way he believes Jim roped Tim into killing Lila Potts. Could this have been Mick's initiation ritual to join the Lords of Death?

I noticed that everything they had, like a Lords of Death symbol. What is this? That's our I'm like, what is this? They said, that's our group. Like, what is this? This is just our gang. That's what they taught us at the time. It wasn't until some time later, we're actually like a cult, you know. I'm like, a cult?

Jim said he was like the leader. Tim was his, like, second in command. He said, we're trying to recruit people. I said, I'm cool. You know, I don't want nothing like that. But they did mention hurting some people off and on. Only a couple people had the tattoo, apparently. And in order to get the tattoo,

you had to take someone's soul, as in murder someone, is what I was told. There's only one person other than Mick who knows what happened that night. So I did something I've been terrified to do for my entire life. I wrote Tim a letter and asked him what really happened on the night of Cindy Kozad's murder. I wrote, Do you remember me?

I was just a child when you were first arrested back in 1995. I've been debating writing this letter for over 10 years. I feel like I deserve some answers. I've read both yours and Mick's statements about what happened that night, and I want to know the truth. Did Mick shoot Cindy? To my surprise, he wrote back, but what he had to say only added another layer to my investigation.

You want to know if Mick lied, Tim wrote. I'm not asking you to believe me over Mick so ask him to explain what happened on his last case when he went to prison for manslaughter. Then you can discover the truth for yourself like I did. Unfortunately, I learned too late. production of Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey. Your host is Thrasher Banks. The show is written, produced, and edited by Thrasher Banks with additional writing by Meredith Stedman and Dennis Cooper. Produced by Meredith Stedman and Dennis Cooper. Executive producers are Donald

Albright and Payne Lindsey. Consulting producer and video production by George Miller. Supervising producer is Tracy Kaplan. Artwork by Byron McCoy. Original music by Makeup and Vanity Set, with additional music by Thrasher Banks. Mixed by Cooper Skinner. Thank you to Oren Rosenbaum and the team at UTA, Beck Media and Marketing, and the Nord Group. Special thanks to Tori Ross, Caitlin Kabosky, and Thrasher's mom, Carrie. For more podcasts like Lords of Death, search Tenderfoot TV on your favorite podcast app, or visit us at tenderfoot.tv. Thanks for listening. absolutely free. But if you want to hear the whole season right now, it's available ad-free on Tinder for Plus. You'll find the link to subscribe in the show notes for this episode.