Loremen Podcast - Loremen S5Ep56 - The Tunnelling Duke LIVE in West Norwood Cemetery

Episode Date: October 31, 2024

This episode was recorded live (or at least undead) in West Norwood Cemetery, in front of a sold-out crowd. The brave lorefolk were chilled, literally and figuratively, by tales of subterranean mystery and otherworldly encounters. James told the story of an eccentric English aristocrat who took to burrowing like a badger, while Alasdair hopped aboard London's defunct Necropolis Railway. And the crematorium proved to be a spooky setting for the local legend of a West Norwood polterguy ... who liked his milk. Special thanks to Ben Van der Velde and all the organisers of the ChooSE27 festival. LoreBoys nether say die! Support the Loremen here (and get stuff): patreon.com/loremenpod ko-fi.com/loremen Check the sweet, sweet merch here... https://www.teepublic.com/stores/loremen-podcast?ref_id=24631 @loremenpod youtube.com/loremenpodcast www.instagram.com/loremenpod www.facebook.com/loremenpod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Visit betterhelp.com to learn more. That's betterHELP.com. Welcome to Lawmen, a podcast about local legends and obscure curiosities from days of yore with me, Alist Beckett King and me James Shake Shaft and in this episode a whole crematorium full of lore folk yeah we gathered them in a creepy creepy location slap bang in the center of a cemetery in West Norwood Cemetery for tales of subterranean horror charnel house mystery and tunnels. Many a tunnel. So many tunnels. James tells the fascinating tale of the tunneling fifth Earl of Portland.

What was his name, James? William John Cavendish Scott Bentick. Bentink. Close. Don't forget the tink. It's Lawmen Live at West Norwood Cemetery. This is weird, isn't it? Yeah! What are we doing here? When I arrived, there was a murder of crows on the tree outside, literally going, ah,

ah, ah. Honestly, there was, in real life, crows. Would you like to describe for the listener the space that we're in? We're in a room. It's pretty spooky, if I'm honest. I'm pretty sure everyone here has just walked through a graveyard to get here. If you haven't walked through the graveyard to get here, it means you were in the graveyard already.

And that's probably more worrying. There was quite the moon out tonight. I think it was pretty spooky, but everyone has their own boobs. So everyone's pretty happy, I'm guessing. Did James say everyone has their own boobs? Everyone has their own boobs. Boobs! Everyone has B-Y-O-B means bring your own boobs.

Yep. Yes, boobs bring your own boobs. Yep. Yes, boobs, your own boobs. There's one part of the room you haven't described behind us, behind the stage, there's a curtain. Bex, would you press the button? Oh, it's moving. Behind us, the curtains are opening. Oh no! And that I think, if I understand correctly, Bex, you have three buttons there.

You've got open the curtains, close the curtains, and then a red button for the coffin descends. Which we're not going to press. Out of respect, I think for the venue, could we close those curtains again, please? And genuinely, the listener will appreciate this. The curtains were holding so much cold air there. A genuine chill has entered the room as we revealed

what I assume in the business is called the coffin hole. I'm surprised at how cold it was, given the nature of this, because we are, of course, recording this in a crematorium. A famously hot type of building. Yes, certainly one area of it is very hot and that was that bit. That's that bit, the old coffin hole. But it's night time I guess. They've got to turn it off, I suppose.

I don't know how it works. I probably shouldn't guess. Budget cuts. They've shut down 24-hour crematoriums. In the old days it was all crematoriums. You could cremator any day and any time of the day you wanted. That's London. This is Off Topic.

None of this is going in. Welcome to Lawmen, a podcast about local legends and obscure curiosities from days of yore. I'm James Shakespeare. And I'm Alistair Beckett King. And here is... Well, don't say nice. Nice, nice, nice.

We're going to have... No, I was about to introduce the audience, but you've revealed yourselves by laughing. And here is a crematorium full of law folk. Hello. And now since it is a crematorium, give me a spooky noise. It was a little bit game show.

Yes. A bit like I've revealed a prize, but the only thing behind this curtain, as you know, is a coffin hole. James, do you have a spooky subterranean tale for us this evening? I do have a spooky subterranean tale. Well, I'm not sure how spooky it's going to be

because I figured this is going to be pretty spooky in here. And we're surrounded by lots of people that are dead and underground. And I thought it might be interesting to talk about someone who lived underground. That'll make more sense when you've heard the rest of this episode. I would like to talk to you about William John Cavendish Scott Bentink. How many guys is this? That's one person. I'm just clocking in at one person with five names.

He's the fifth Duke of Portland. I heard about this guy. I was reading Peter Atcroyd's London Under, and he was referenced in that. And my other source is Pugh Marie Eatwell. And the book is called The Dead Duke, The Secret Wife and The Missing Corpse. Great title. Could we have the author's name just again?

Pugh Marie Eitwell. Pugh. P-I-U. P-I-U. Pugh. Pugh. Pugh. Pugh Marie Eitwell.

Not just a sound effect from video games, but a name. Great name. The Dead Duke, The Secret Wife secret wife and the missing corpse, which it sounds like one of the ones that's those films on Amazon that try and latch onto like aliens. So they're called like alien fighter and you buy it by accident because you think it's alien. It's like that, but for the lion, the witch and the wardrobe, I

think, but spooky. Or like the VHS versions of the lion who is a king. Yes. Yes. It's quite similar to a Disney film, but less well animated. Yeah, exactly. But I'm going to start you off in a filmic manner. We're going to do a cut, a classic, shake shaft film cut.

Boom. We're in the court of Elizabeth I, Elizabeth I. Or as I guess she was known at the time, the great Queen Elizabeth or the Queen Elizabeth to end all Queen Elizabeths. That's very good. I think that's the best joke that's ever been on the podcast. She was actually known as Queen Bess. Bess is somehow a nickname for Elizabeth.

I guess it's the middle bit slurred. And what you do, it's not actually a film. It's more like a 3D immersive experience. So you've popped on your VR visor, and boom, you're in the court of Queen Bess. There's a bunch of people over there, and you say out loud, hey, Bess, because you want to attract someone's attention.

Now the Queen looks around, obviously. Mm-hmm. So would the person we're interested in, because it's not Queen Bess, it's Bess of Hardwick, who is one of Queen Elizabeth's very good mates. If you're picturing Queen Elizabeth, you're basically picturing Bess of Hardwick. She had very much the same vibe, a lot of forehead. Basically me without a beard is what you're describing.

But if you... If you piled your hair up into a big ginger bum... I'll do it. I'll do it for the listener. But this Elizabeth, far from being the virgin queen, she was quite the Elizabethan cougar. She married first in 1543 and her husband, Robert Barley,

Bobby Barley, was 13. And she was widowed a year later. But when he was 14. When he was 14! And she was, at a young age she could have been 16, but she more likely was around 22, 23. And she married four times during her life, amassing quite a considerable wealth. And she went around buying up and renovating a lot of the big houses in the sort of Midlands north of England. So your Chatsworths.

That was hers for a bit. And she did like one of the big rebuilds on it. Also Hardwick Old Hall, which you might be thinking at the time, they just called it Hardwick Hall. But no, it's Hardwick Old Hall because they started building a new hall before they'd even finished building the old hall. That's annoying for the people working on the old hall. Then they finished it. It's now in ruins, which is also annoying.

Wow. And she also made Well Bet Albie, which we will come to later. I did do a little bit of ghost story hunting for Hardwick Old Hall. And... D-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d- Hall and breaking news on the 16th of February, 2023 breaking news from over a year ago. So someone's like this is to on a ticker tape in 2023. Yes. OK. So a chap, William Mitchell, Willie Mitch, Willie Mitch was a funeral near Hardwick Hall and he went for a little walk and as

the article says, I'm sort of into ghosts and stuff. So he took a bunch of pictures and he zoomed in to see if there was anything weird in any of the windows. And I scrolled down this article and there was an image with the caption, can you spot the ghostly apparition in the image? Unfortunately, there was a pop up ad. And you know, they've got a really little X to get rid of it. Basically clicked on the ad three times.

So what I did, what I did see when I eventually got rid of it was just classic pareidolia. It was just a just a bit of a shadow. But now the Internet really thinks that I am interested in ghost hunting singles in the Derbyshire area. Can you tell us one weird trick to burn abdominal fat that the doctors don't want you to know? The ghosts don't want you to know. Ghosts hate him. to know. Ghosts hate him. Interestingly, the old hall and the new hall, there is a bit, there is some rivalry because the old hall is run by English Heritage and the new hall

is run by the National Trust. Fight, fight, fight, fight, fight. For American listeners, It's basically Bloods versus Crips. Right? Yeah, yeah. So, Wellbeck Abbey, it is not affiliated with either the English Heritage or the National Trust gangs. It seems to be an independent mansion. Upcoming events on the 26th of October, historic pies. That should get them in, yeah. That's my kind of history. the 26th of October, historic pies. That should get them in. Yeah.

That's my kind of history. Yeah. And if you were to go there in the past in, you've got your VR headset on again, and you go in there and you're in your carriage and you're riding from nearby workshop station and you get through the gates and you get to the gatehouse, then you plunge into a massive tunnel and go along this tunnel all the way to the big house, to the driveway of the Abbey. And we will find out more about that later. Well done, James, for part one of the story. Part one. Now, since we are in West Norwood Cemetery,

I would like to go underground and dig into the cemeteries of London a little bit. I'd like to tell you a little bit about the Necropolis Railway. So we're in West Norwood Cemetery. This is, I think, the southernmost of the magnificent seven, the seven great cemeteries built almost in a perfect circle around central London. And they were built in the 19th century to deal with the city's unstoppable dying habits.

People were dying left, right and center. It was getting to be too much. Okay, this is going to be so gruesome, I don't know if it's going to make it into the edit. But are we okay with that? Yeah! Gurgling loins. Gravediggers in central,

loins should not be involved here at all. Although actually, maybe they will. Gravediggers were in burying new bodies. They were digging through the bodies of people who'd been buried quite recently. So in London Day and Night by David W. Bartlett, 1852, he quotes a grave digger named Chamberlain who says, We have come to bodies quite perfect, and we have cut parts away with choppers and pickaxes. During the time I was at this work, the flesh has been cut up in pieces and thrown up behind

boards which are placed to keep the ground up where the mourners are standing. And when time mourners are gone this flesh has been thrown in and jammed down and the coffins taken away and burnt. It gets worse. What? That was a light one to get you in the mood for the next one. Another testified to things more horrible than ever Dante saw in hell, says Bartlett. And then he quotes another, I think, assistant gravedigger who has a very similar voice to

Gravedigger Chamberlain. One day, they grew up in the same street, one day I was trying the length of a grave to see if it was long and wide enough. And my understanding from the context is that that means he got into and lay down. Yeah. That being the only way to know if a grave is big enough for a body, you got to get in that grave.

That's a good little life hack though. Quick life hack. Quick life hack. Find out if something is body-sized by getting in. What grave diggers don't want you to know. So he was trying the length of the grave and while I was there the ground gave way and a body turned right over and the two arms came and clasped me round the neck. Ay yi yi.

And so that's why it looked like he was hugging that corpse. When you arrived, it was actually a very funny story. And he's glad you're here, actually. And now he can explain how hilarious it was that that happened. Wow. I was testing the size of the grave. I was just doing that thing we all do, where

I was testing the length of the grave. And wouldn't you know it, it fell on me. But for the upwardly mobile Victorian cadaver there was another option. The London Necropolis which opened in 1854. It's also known as Brookwood Cemetery. It is still I think today the largest cemetery in the UK. But it's 23 miles away from central London. It's near Woking. What if I die on the Tottenham Court Road? I don't know. What if I die on the old Kent Road? The traffic's going to be awful, isn't it, trying to get out of London.

Absolutely, yeah. Horse drawn hearse, little Oliver Twist walking very slowly in front. Would he say, please sir, can I have some mourn? Almost a slow hand clap there, I think some people strongly disapproved of that my source for this now is the BBC News article by Bethann Bell and she explains that what you could do is you could get on the necropolis railroad which ran from cemetery station near Waterloo just south of the river all the way out to Brentwood Cemetery Station near Waterloo, just south of the river, all the way out to Brentwood Cemetery.

You could get a ticket as a mourner or you could get a coffin ticket if you were dead. Someone will get that for you. The trains were split up by religious denomination and class, so you could get first, second or third class, but also if you were a conformist, you didn't have to be stuck with loads of non-conformist coffins in the next carriage, just sort of non-conforming the placer. You would only have people with your exact values dead in the next carriage. It's how we would all want to travel. A first-class funeral was three pounds.

A second-class funeral was one pound. I don't know the price for the rubbish, the really bad, no gravestone funeral. But here's the thing, according to the BBC article, fares stayed the same for 85 years. So by the end of that, it was an incredibly cheap way to get to Woking. So if you were a little short on cash and you needed to get to Woking, you just had to dress in black and look sad. It was basically a goth discount. It ran for 87 years. Unfortunately, like a lot of West Norwood Cemetery, the track was destroyed during the Blitz in World War II. And to bring it back to the cemetery in which we are now,

the blog Cemetery Club has a piece on the ghosts of West Norwood, which is actually not about real ghosts, but about the parts of this cemetery which were destroyed in bombing raids. So you can see black and white photographs and contemporary photographs showing the gothic buildings that used to be here that were damaged and the tombs and the monuments that have been destroyed. So that is the story of the Necropolis Railroad. So do you remember where we ended up with the story of William John Cavendish Scott Bentonk?

I'm just going to call him WJCSB. It's not even catchy. He lived from 1800 to 1879. And do you remember that big tunnel that you were got in with your VR headsets on earlier? One person, for the benefit of the tape. One person remembered that. So that was just the start because WJCSB or the Fifth Juke of Portland inherited the estate, the Wellbeck Abbey Estate, and

he got to work improving it. He was constantly tinkering throughout his life and when he died in 1879, the house appeared unchanged. Are you tinkering in there WCSB? Are you tinkering in there? Constantly tinkering. That seemed calm enough. On the surface.

But underground. He wasn't burrowing, was he James? He was burrowing. Are you burrowing down there? Well, he would not answer you. He would not like that. He was a very private man. He was very introverted.

You could even say he was a recluse. He had a door on his bed so that people wouldn't know if he was in there or not. You didn't agree there. I'd love to slam the door of my bed. For the re for a really stroppy guy, that's ideal, isn't it? Good night, slam. Actually, it wasn't that unchanged.

The house, almost all of the rooms had been completely stripped of furniture. Pictures, tapestries, whatnot had been stored elsewhere. Only the duke's rooms were habitable. Every room was painted pink. Twist, I don't think any of us expected that. No one expected that. And you just had the parquet flooring

and a commode in each room and open to the room. No one expected that either. I don't think. No. You said pink and we all went, ooh. And then you said just sort of open bucket of poo and we all went. In the corner.

No, thank you. And the parquet was very much the middle point, wasn't it? That was the point. We like parquet, but there's a lot of upkeep, especially with an open commode in every room. Exactly. Underneath all that, the actual house was over 15 miles of tunnels. He was a borrower. He wanted to be underground.

He didn't want to be around people. One day, a builder lifted his hat to him, instantly fired. Wow. He's like Tom Cruise. He's got a Tom Cruise vibe about him actually. If he went out, this is not about Tom Cruise. He ventured out mainly by night. And when he did, he was preceded by a lady servant carrying

a lantern 37 metres ahead of him. But if he went out by daytime he would wear two coats and if it was cold he could wear up to six overcoats. This perfectly spherical guy. He had a very high collar on his coat, and then he'd have a big hat on. And underneath that hat was a slightly smaller hat, minimum two hats.

And he had a big umbrella, and he'd hide behind it if people tried to talk to him in the street. He was, yeah, he did not like people. Although, actually, some people say that he was quite kind to his workers. We'll get to that in a minute. He, on his doors, right? He on every door in the house, there were two mailboxes, one in, one out. And that was how he would communicate with people. If someone, if he was in a room and someone wanted to speak to him,

they weren't allowed in. I think only his valet was the only person who really saw him in person. Everyone else, even the doctor, they'd have to go through the letter system. I mean, there are only so many things you can poke through a letterbox for a doctor to look at. It's going to limit what the doctor can treat. It's going to limit what the doctor can treat. He doesn't sound like he would have that many problems with the French disease, as I think we call it. He loved chicken.

He'd only eat chicken. He had one roast chicken a day, half for breakfast, half for dinner. And that was posted through the door as well. Alive or not alive. I'm guessing if he didn't invent, he was definitely an exponent of the spatchcock. That's what the doctor had to deal with. But he would often be around at about the 15 miles of tunnels underneath the house. And he would, he had a little chicken railroad.

So he insisted there was a chicken be roasting continuously. Presumably they swapped that out for a new chicken rather than just one very burned chicken. But there would constantly be a chicken on the rotisserie and he would be able to summon it by the medium of small chicken railway. Please tell me there was a little chicken driver with a little little train cab driving the chicken railroad.

Oh, no, I hope not. Oh, it's like a mini version of what you were talking about. The chicken coffin railroad. Very sad. Little goth chicken hitching a ride. He was very kind to the workers, actually. You'd have to be quite kind with such a ridiculous set up. They were told to treat him as if he were a tree. Presumably means we on him or play by the sea behind him.

Encourage their children to climb him. I don't know. He provided all of his workers with an umbrella, a suit of clothes, a top hat, just one, and a donkey. They got their own donkey to ride top hat, just one, and a donkey. They got their own donkey to ride from the station to the thing, and a roller rink, not each. They had a roller rink to share. Roller rink.

It was a big roller rink. Yeah, the rooms underneath this place, they had, there was a library, there was a massive billiards room. Is this in the tunnels? In the tunnels underneath. He created a- And look at this, all there now. Oh wow. There was a whole warren. He was the inspiration for Mr Badger from The Wind in the Willows. Oh. I thought, wow, you've nailed this crowd's interests there.

It's not a slow hang class. There was a delighted hmm. There was also an observatory There was also an observatory underground, which seems confusing, but apparently that bit had a big glass roof. Roof. I nearly said rough because that's what my accent wants to say, but then I tried to fancy it up because we're in a crematorium. Roof. Just made it a bit showbiz, that's alright. There was a huge room. It was 49 metres by 19 metres,

which was going to be the Great Hall, but then you kind of... Are there pillars in these rooms? This room, in fact, was the largest unbroken floor at the time. The largest room that didn't have pillars in it. Nobody with any sense would dig a cave that shape. It's going to cave in.

It didn't. Well, okay. It was... So that's what I know. Yeah, it was designated as a ballroom. All of these were pink as well, by the way, like upstairs. And this one had a sunrise painted on the ceiling of it and it had a hydraulic lift and it could carry 20 people from the ballroom

up to the top and as it says, the Duke never organized the ball there. So that's the guy. He seems pretty peculiar and he also seems like a guy that lived in London called TC Druse. Ooh. And in 1898, the daughter-in-law of TC Druse raised an affidavit to have TC Druse's body exhumed because she thought TC Druse was WJCSB. More about that in the final part. What a mock master.

An epic and confusing twist. Yeah, you can clap a bit. I don't know how you raise an affidavit, but I'd love to raise an affidavit. And having seen them in films, I'd love to subpoena someone. Oh, yes. You know, it's like, hey, are you James Shrek chef from Lawman? Yeah. Subpoena! I don You know, it's like, Hey, are you James Shrek chef from lawmen? Oh, yeah. Supina. I don't know what it is.

I don't know how to spell it. I'd really love to subpoena someone. It's a subpoena, isn't it? I don't know if there is like a normal Pina and then like a. A subpoena. Yeah, an uber Pina. Ooh.

Sounds bad. Yeah, it does sound bad. Yeah, that's probably why they don't say that. Yes. Well, I would like to bring something supernatural to the table. Ooh.

Have you heard of the nightmare house of Langmead Street? No. Well, it's a lesser known haunting, which took place very close to where we sit right now. Langmead Street is just a couple of roads away. In Philip Paul's book, Some Unseen Power, Diary of a Ghost Hunter, 1985, he describes a classic poltergeist which occurred or manifested two decades before Enfield. It's the 11th of July 1951 and Inspector Sidney Candler was called out to a three-story six-room house on Langmead

Street. Just a stone's throw from West Norwood Cemetery. Now, I don't think the house is there anymore, but it was all sort of L-shaped back street and it was inhabited by the Greenfield family. That's Cecil Greenfield, 26, he's our main Greenfield. He lived there with his parents, his sister, his brother, his brother's wife. And if I understand this correctly, her parents as well. So this will shock you. They started to hear noises in this six room, not six bedroom, six room house full of an entire Coronation Street's worth of people crammed in there.

They started to hear noises from the attic. Your usual, your scratches, your bangs, your sounds of moving furniture, your objects thrown across the room, your flickery lights, your radios that turn on by themselves. Yeah, I can see I'm not impressing you, James. So far, so poltergeist. How do you like a milk bottle

that walks upstairs on its own? What? Is it on some sort of milk bottle railway? No, nor is there a chicken assisting it. Is it boom, boom? I like to imagine step by step. Boom, boom, boom. Oh, I imagine it's way tottering from side to side is quite cute. It's not that spooky, but it is supernatural. And absolutely. Do we need to explain what milk bottles are for younger listeners?

Yeah, no, because everyone downloads their milk, don't they? I get mine on Napster. They have a milk streaming service. It's just a very long udder. I know when I'm halfway through sucking milk out of the long udder and an advert comes on. I will not pay for premium. Gold top service.

So there's more. The milk bottle is not the end of the mystery. How do you like how do you like a mattress rising up from a bed? And when you try, you can't even push it back down. What? Yeah. An air mattress?

No, because you could push down an air mattress. You could easily. I'm inherently flawed. How do you like Cecil waking up in the night to sounds outside his door? He approaches, he opens the door and what does he see but a milky white figure, the milky white figure of a man descending the stairs. And as it approaches him, James, it vanishes. What?

And Cecil's screams wake the entire family. And it wasn't only Cecil who saw that figure, his younger sister Pat saw it too. Eventually, they called the police. And I think this is what dates this story the most. The police sent eight constables. I tell you what, defund the 1950s police. That is eight constables for a ghost. That's more than one constable per room. How incredible that they're... It's like a silent movie. Like they're chasing the ghost like it's Fatty Arbuckle waving a truncheon and blowing a whistle. The police investigated, they did experience some of the sounds,

some of the moving objects, they found footprints in the attic, which they wiped away. The footprints, of course, were in, friend of the show, dust. I thought you were going to say milk. Because also, what I like about the story... Milky steps in the attic. Because the milk went up the stairs a bottle and came down a man. LAUGHTER

And then the next day the footprints were back. Yeah, I feel like James' brilliant thing just kind of ruined that... that spookiness a little bit. But anyway, the footprints came back. So maybe there was a person. Could have been powdered milk as well. Let's not rule that out. Let's not rule that out.

I didn't realize how largely milk related this story was. And there was some kind of code scratched into the wall, but unfortunately the internet archive went down before I could write down what it was, but it was gibberish. It doesn't matter. It just said like two pints red top. That would be terrible.

No red top for me, thanks. I like the skimmed. We had a skimmed when I was a kid. I'm a vegan now, obviously. Why? Because I think milk is disgusting and I don't like it. Well then just have some water or white paint.

Ghost is driving this family mad, reported the Aberdeen Evening Express. That being the only newspaper I could find that covered this. On the 16th of July of the same year, apparently the family had had no sleep for seven nights. And this story ends with a little bit of an anticlimax. The Greenfields had had enough. The constables didn't manage to arrest the ghosts. Even with eight of them there. Eight constables to each point of milk. Eight constables to a point. What a great ratio. The family, they moved out. The Greenfields moved out out and the family that moved in, as this is often the case, didn't have that much trouble. They named the ghost Horace, so they seem to have found a way of dealing with it. But Inspector Candler, if you remember him, Sid Candler, could never explain what his men had experienced.

And that is the story of the nightmare house of Langmead Street. Lovely. Well, thank you. So, back to WJCSB. Have to look it up every time. So, he was not seen by many people. He was someone who was very keen not to be seen by people. In fact... Old burrowing willy. Old burrowing willy. It's catchier than WCSB.

Yeah, yeah, I can't remember that. Burrowing Willie. Burrowing Willie. It's instantly there. Indelibly in your memory, Burrowing Willie. Oh gosh. So, Burrow... Burrowing Willie's big tunnel. Yes.

Some people believed that there was a tunnel that led from the abbey all the way to the local station so that he could travel there and then on to London in secret. And when he would go in his standard method to the station, it was via his carriage, which was locked up, all the curtains on the carriage always drawn. His carriage was lifted onto the goods truck of the train. He wouldn't even get out of it. Are we sure this isn't just his bed? Are we sure he isn't just shipping?

Maybe. He locks himself in his bed and they just ship the bed. That would be a good way to travel. It's the only way to travel. It was at this point that I realized he's quite a lot like Batman. Because you know, he's got the cape when he comes into his mansion, he goes into the cave. Yes, cave underneath his house.

Cave underneath his house. He's got a series of disguises. Series of disguises. Six coats. That's less Batman. Bruce Wayne could easily afford six coats. Oh big time. He could afford a big hat with a small hat underneath.

Easily. He's a playboy. He's an absolute playboy. He's Gotham's richest man. He could easily afford that. He's got an umbrella, but that's more the Penguin. Anyway, I wrote that down in my notebook, is he Batman in massive letters?

And I was on a train at the time and it was like, I really hope no one's looking over my shoulder. I just suddenly like, and then had to write something down. And what I wrote down was, is he Batman? It's like I've just cracked the case. So yeah, he would travel to London in secret and he spent a lot of time in London. And that is why in 1898, there was someone who claimed that he was leading a double life in London as T.

C. Drews, who was a Victorian businessman who ran a very fancy department store in London's Baker Street called the Baker Street Bazaar. And this guy died in 1864, which was around the time that Burrowing Willie stopped going to London so often and spent guy died in 1864, which was around the time that Burrowing Willie stopped going to London so often and spent more time in his own house. So, you know, coincidence, coincidence. T.C. Drewes had a habit of appearing unexpectedly in random places in his department store. He'd utilize a series of tunnels that a department store had his office. T.C. Drewes' office had red curtains around it. And if they were drawn, it meant keep away.

But if they were open, you could approach. Bring me chickens. Funny, you should mention the chickens. Because TC Drews, like Bury and Willie, did not like red meat. He would only eat chickens. And if you remember, Bury and Willie would only eat chickens for breakfast and dinner. TC would only eat them for lunch.

The two sides are the same coin. I'm sorry, I'm from the North. Dinner is lunch. I've been completely misunderstanding when this guy ate chicken. Thanks to your lack of specificity, James. What is it? What is it? If you say supper. Tea, tea is the even one. Of course I don't say supper. My gosh.

And TC never talked to his parents or his family, and he moved around London every couple of years. His daughter-in-law thought that he was this famous recluse, and that his coffin had been buried with just some lead in it. They were subject to a nine year legal wranglings. And then finally, on the 30th of December, they opened T.C. Drews' grave. I forgot about the affidavit. I'm so excited. Well, they opened up the grave and then he was, his body was just in there. He wasn't burying Willie after all.

He had a secret family in Australia and that was why he's being weird. So he did have a secret? He had a secret, but it wasn't that he was a duke. He had a secret family? Wow. It was just he had a secret family in Australia. Mmm. Yeah. So that was a bit of an anticlimax.

Can we have a somewhat disappointed round of applause for James's story? We're clapping but we're shaking our heads. Well, those were our tales of horror, the subterranean world, and mysterious guys who turn out to just be bigger mists. Are you ready to score me? Yes, I am. Yes. Supported by this warm group of law folk. Thank you so much for coming out.

Yes, we are ready we are ready to pass judgment what's your first category okay so category the first is the naming naming naming okay i think we had some pretty strong names, I have to say. Did. Berming Willey. What was his name in full? William John Cavendish Scott Bentink. Great. The Fifth Duke of Portland. The Fifth Duke of Portland.

I mean that guy's got more names than you could reasonably ask for. That's really good. By means of a spooky noise, could you let us know how well you think James fared in names? Was that a five amount of word? of a spooky noise, could you let us know how well you think James fared in names? Is that a five amount of woo? I think that's maybe a three. Is that a three? A three of woo? That was a three. Three tops. He had five names just himself.

Well, it's a three, I'm afraid. The people have spoken. That guy's spoken. But we're all intimidated now. We're so confident. But I'm sure you'll get loads more for category two. Category two, supernatural. I did what I could. Yeah, you did well. You did well.

I brought up all the guys to the table. There was that guy on the internet who took a picture of a window. That's time. Explain that. By way of a really unimpressed noise, communicate what you think it is out of five for Supernatural. Oh, that was... Oh, have you ever heard of a wonnier one than that?

No, no. Who's the wonniest one in the world. Oh, that was... It's a cruel and merciless one out of five for Supernatural. Okay then, so third category. Third category. We're gonna go with... I do wanna go with Copes.

Because it's definite six. Which is, boom, unless we go with Ludo rules, where it bounces back. So I'm gonna go with trains. Trains. Okay. So how many trains were there? Loads. Five. You know, I wasn't counting. We've got the Necropolis railway.

Yes. We had the chicken railway. The little chicken railway. The little chicken railway. Yes. And the... Oh. The actual, the normal standard railway. Well, just the railways that exist in the world. Yeah.

The guy that lifted his carriage on the train. Oh, yes, yes. And that was it. That was it, actually. I think that was all the train. You wrote Batman on the train? I wrote down Batman when I was on train. Thank you.

That is the weakest four we have ever, ever had on the podcast. But I think it's a four. Are we in agreement? It's a four for train. Yes. Four trains. Yeah. OK, and our final category this spooky evening is spooky category of dairy slash chicken.

Or the dairy chicken, which is actually quite scary. And if you think about it too much. That is a very sneaky portmanteau category covering two things. Cows and chickens. Cows and chickens. We had the milk bottle. Yes. We had, I think, a some kind of long cows that comes to your house to deliver milk. Yes.

Like broadband. That's re-offended some people over there who'd forgotten about it. There was powdered milk. Powdered milk. The potential footsteps made of powdered milk by the milky white... The milky white ghost. The apparition that scared Norris or whatever his name was. Yes, a substitute for dust, powdered milk.

And... and... that's it. Well, you've covered dairy, but you haven't covered milk. And, and that's it. Well, you've covered dairy, but you haven't covered chickens. And of course, chickens. Of course, chickens. It's a chicken railroad. Very closely associated with dairy. Half in the morning, half in the dinner, and then a whole chicken for lunch. Chickens. He had a constant chicken, literally in rotation.

Yeah. He had the Napster of chickens. He's constantly downloading chickens to himself via the medium of trains. Trains and letter boxes. Oh, I clearly the audience doesn't remember Napster as fondly as we do. No. No.

No. So, I know what noise. Um, with your milkiest and chickeniest noises. It's like a moo cluck. Okay, I'm going to say people in these pews, yeah, they're sitting in pews. If you could moo and if you could cluck, I would like you to give the rating for,

I think a beautifully named category, chicken slash dairy. Oh, I think the chickens have it. It's got to be a five out of five. Yes. Thank you so much for coming out to West Norwood Cemetery for this really weird recording. It was so much fun, thank you. There you go, Alistair.

I think we'll agree that that tale was not a boring because of the tunnels. Because of tunnels. Despite all the tunnels, it wasn't boring. Maybe. Punch that up. Thank you very much to all the lovely law folk that joined us there. Thank you to former deputy law person Ben Vanderveld of Good Ship Comedy for organizing the Tews 27 Comedy Festival, SE 27 Comedy Festival, and thank you to the staff of West Norwood Cemetery for letting us do that. Yeah, if you want to hear some behind the scenes-y type stuff, extra stuff, go to patreon.com forward slash lawmen pod and you can become a law person there and join us

in the Law Folk Discord as well. Thanks to all the people who already do that. Yeah, thank you actually. Thanks actually. Now, back to the tunnels. I'm vegan, it's not coming to my house. No thank you. I'll just suck on some kind of municipal oat forcet.