Loremen Podcast - Loremen S5Ep60 - The Littlemark Murder

Episode Date: November 28, 2024

Alasdair tells James the tale of a ghostly pedlar with no head... and no body! The Loremen journey to the lowlands of Scotland and encounter some Nithsdale ne'er-do-wells. Join us! Meet the pranksters of Sanquhar and Kryten the android's Scottish ancestor. Walk the lonely road to Littlemark Farm. (Oh, hi little Mark!) Marvel at the girthy trees and... beware the murderous Mary Graham. (No Marks were harmed in the recording of this episode.) The Loreboys went head-to-head on Who Knew It with Matt Stewart. Loremano a mano. Listen now for some very odd fish and even stranger Mitford sisters. This episode was edited by Joseph Burrows - Audio Editor. LoreBoys nether say die! Support the Loremen here (and get stuff): patreon.com/loremenpod ko-fi.com/loremen Check the sweet, sweet merch here... https://www.teepublic.com/stores/loremen-podcast?ref_id=24631 @loremenpod youtube.com/loremenpodcast www.instagram.com/loremenpod www.facebook.com/loremenpod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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A courtside legend is born. The Raptor Chicken Nacho Poutine from McDonald's. Our world famous fries topped with seasoned chicken, gravy, stringy cheese curds, tortilla strips, and drizzle with nacho cheese sauce. Get your claws on it. For a limited time only, I'm participating in McDonald's restaurants in Ontario. Welcome to Lawmen, a podcast about local legends and obscure curiosities from days of yore with me, Alistair Beckett King and me, James Shake Shaft. And James, in this episode, we're going to the lowlands of Scotland. What? South of Glasgow.

How low can we go? You'll find out. Get ready to meet a ghost who has to be seen to be believed. Or in this case, described. What? By me to you. to meet a ghost who has to be seen to be believed. Hmm. Or in this case described. What? By me to you. Okay, I'm gonna.

It's the tale of the Little Mark Murder. Oh, Little Mark? It's not about a guy called Mark, don't worry. Okay, good. James, I'd like you to come with me to a place we do not often visit. The Lowlands of Scotland. Ah? Yeah, I know. It's got a lowlands? I suppose by definition it should do. It seems obvious, but I never really thought about it.

I almost always tell you stories from the highlands. Yeah, you always tack the high, rude. I do, but today you and I, and I'm not going to repeat the way you said it, are going to take the low road. We're going to Dumfries. Dumf... Wait a minute, is that the one that I sometimes misread as bumfries? I mean, I can't tell you that it's not. We're going to bum fleece if you want.

There's like a type of sponge or something, isn't there? Like a cleaning sponge called a dumfries, isn't it? No, it's a type of cake, a dumfries sponge. Oh, you haven't cleaned your kitchen with a cake, have you? Oh, no, no wonder there were more ants afterwards. So crumbly. I thought I'm just getting advertised scrub daddy now. Is that a cleaning product? Yeah.

Cause it isn't necessarily. It's the scrub daddy. Something about the word daddy gives it a fleece song. Don't know what it is. Don't know what it is. I've just seen the word bum fries in a household type haberdashery shop. Bum fries. I misread it as bum fries.

Right, I don't know if this is the words fault, James. I feel like you're bringing a lot of the bum to the table. I've done it before and I'll do it again. That's how I broke that. That's the lawmen guarantee. That's the other lawmen guarantee. James will bring a lot of bum to a attractive antique occasional table that he thinks is a chair.

It was a table. It was occasionally a table no more. Occasionally, it's just a pile of giant kindling. And it does tend to stay that way. So to be specific, we're not just going to Dumfries, we're going to Nithsdale. Nithsdale? The Dale of the River Nith. Ooh, Nith.

That's a good name for a river. N-I-T-H. I think maybe possibly Nid in Scots. But I think, I think pronounced Nith. Pronounced Nith by the fisherman on the YouTube video I watched to find out how it was pronounced, so take it away that guy. Nice one, fisherman. We're going to a place called Sanker. Sanker? Get over that guy. Nice one, fisherman. We're going to a place called Sanka. Sanka?

Sanka, but spelt S-A-N-Q-U-H-A-R. So it's pronounced Sanka, but it's spelled like Farquhar. Ah. Like Farquhar. Which made me realize if that's spelled like that and pronounced Sanka, then Farquhar, and I looked it up, the Scottish pronunciation is Farquhar. Ah. So we've all been saying Farquhar wrong. We should be saying Farquhar.

Farquhar. You don't have to say it in a Japanese accent to get it right. I'm not saying it in a Japanese accent. You can say it in a Scottish accent. Farquhar. I'm rolling an R for no reason. Is there a W beginning version or did that get written out of history? You would think Sankar produced more limericks, wouldn't you?

But perhaps the spelling has confused a lot of people. Yeah, there's so much limerick potential. It hasn't produced many limericks, but it has produced a fair few wrong-uns, James. Oh no! It's also home to the world's oldest post office. What? Yeah, I sort of attacked one way and then attacked the other way. Many, many villains, but also world's oldest post office. 1712 it was built.

So three miles from Sanker, near the Elioch Woods, there was a small farm named Little Mark. Oh. Yeah, it's not as cute a farm as you're imagining. If you went past Little Mark now, James, or when folklore and genealogies of uppermost Nithsdale by William Wilson was written in 1904, you might hear a ghostly wailing from the River Nith. I'm not convinced I said it right that time either. You might hear a ghostly wailing from the Nith, a river, comma a river.

Maybe leave the mistakes in for context, Joe. You might hear a ghostly wailing from the River Nith, not far from Elioch Bridge. And we're in uppermost, where are we? Uppermost Nithsdale. So if you were there, you might hear ghostly wails from the river and you might see, James. Wait a minute, wait a minute, we've been, we've had to be very careful with spellings of a lot of these things. Ghostly, wails, W-A-I-L-S. No, wailing. Wailing, the voice, a scream, James, a sinister scream. Right, good. And you might see a most strange apparition on the track towards the site of Little Mark

Farm. We've had headless ghosts on the podcast before, haven't we? Yeah, big time. Loads of them. Yeah, loads of them. We've had a few floating heads on ghosts on the podcast before, haven't we? Yeah, big time, loads of them. Yeah, loads of them. We've had a few floating heads on the podcast in our time, haven't we? Yeah, we've had bodyless heads, yeah. Yeah. What have we never had?

We've never had a ghost with no head and no body. What? Yeah, and I know what you're gonna say. You're gonna say that's a poltergeist. It's not a poltergeist. It's not, it's just a noise. It's not a noise. Yes. It's not even a noise. It's not even a noise.

Yeah, I can see that you're intrigued, James. That was just a cold open. That was just to reel you in, to tease you, to start raising questions. What kind of ghost is this with no head and no body? Yeah. OK. Put that to one side. Title sequence and then... And no noise. Smash gods.

How does it smell? It has no nose because that is part of the subset of head, James. It's got no nerve endings. How does it feel? Terrible. Time for some local colour. Just put all that ghost stuff to one side for a minute while I give you some local colour. But I want you to stay in a state of heightened fear.

The people of Sanker were prodigious prankers. Samker prankers? The Sankers, the Sankers were prankers. In the history of Sanker, written in 1891 by James Brown. What? Get up. The ambassador of Seoul. Yeah, yeah, volume one, I feel good. James Brown describes the prank of running, which he thinks belongs uniquely to Sanka.

And I've never heard of it. Maybe you've heard of it. I've well, I need to know what it is because I've definitely heard of running. It's not exactly running as you and I know it. So what this is hilarious. You and you and I could do this because it was a prank perpetrated by beefy teens like you and I, James. Oh, yes.

Yeah, because we're both sort of young, young fellow my lads, both fairly tall and beefed up. Here's what you want to do. If you're a beefy teen listening and you've got a friend who's equally beefy, roughly the same height, that's ideal. The two teens would loiter, let's be honest, around the entrance to a drinking establishment. And then one of the older gents in the town, at the end of the day, ding, ding, ding, he was making his way home a little bit worse for wear, a little bit tired and emotional.

He would step out the door, flanked either side by the beefy teens, and each teen would grab one arm of the man. So you can imagine he's now buttressed by beefy teens. He's bookended by beef. Beef bookends, if you will. They would grab the arms, go rigid, and then just start to run. Just pelt around the town and the old guy in the middle, his feet are just about on the ground.

So he has to run beyond his maximum speed just to try and keep up with them. And they would run him straight home and drop him off where he lived. It's kind of nice. It is annoying but helpful at the same time. It's like a rude mini cab. So it sounded to me like pretty much a low budget rickshaw without the rickshaw. But it could be bad. Just Rick.

Yeah, Rick and Sean maybe. Two guys. That might be where the name comes from. There was a gent called Tammy, and one day he was halfway through his shave. He'd shaved half of his beard and the other half of his face was covered in shaving foam. And he was having a chat with his friend, Baker Todd, who was by the fire cracking all the while. And I think this is crack in the Irish or Northeastern sense of chatting, shooting the breeze. And I think this is, this is crack in the, in the, like the Irish or North Eastern sense of like chatting, shooting the breeze.

Oh yeah. Todd Baker. But Baker Todd. Is there a Todd Baker? Is that a famous person? There's a Ted Baker. The fashion brand. Sounds like a market. Is it like a fashion brand? It sounds like the market version. Like a cheap knockoff of, yeah. So Tammy was shaving and there was a knock at the door. He went to see who it was halfway through his shave, James, a couple of beefy teams jumped him, grabbed him, ran him three times around the pump well, brought him home. During which

time Baker Todd had dulled the poor man's razor so he couldn't even finish his, yeah, Baker Todd was in on it all along. He knew it was going to happen. It was a setup. That's just one of the pranks. A Nithsdale shoemaker named Ned had a prank of his own. These are the confessions of a Nithsdale shoemaker. He had some interesting interactions with the local housewives. So there was a row of, it's a bit less sexy than I'm making out. There's a lot more blocking people's chimneys involved.

Although, well, let's just win. You can make up your own mind. That's not a euphemism. It's not, it's not. There was a row of thatched cottages called the Loughan overshadowed by a bank. And basically you could walk along that bank and sort of look down on the roofs almost.

And so young Ned Shoemaker would get up early in the morning and walk along the bank blocking the villagers' chimneys with a clod of sod, just sort of tossing them onto the chimney. And then he would go to work and later in the day, the wives would get up and they would light their fires. Of course, the houses would fill with smoke and fumes and they would run out into the streets with their eyes streaming. And who would be there to save them in their hour of need? It'd be young Ned. He would stroll by and offer kindly to take the sods out of the chimney.

And they all thought he was a cracker. Yeah. It earned him a reputation as a real obliging child. I don't know if I've got the accent right there. A real obliging child. So there's a couple of Sanka pranks for you. Nearby you got Sanka Castle with Krytan Peel or Krytan Tower, which was home to the Krytan family who were the lords of this area.

James, it would really help me if you were to say Krytan like in Red Dwarf here at this point. Yeah, I was going to say, do you mean like it's not the same Crichton as Crichton from Red Dwarf, I assume? Well, interesting that you should say that. It's spelled differently. There's so many spellings, C-R-E-I-G-H-T-O-N, but sometimes it's Crichton, so there's a million different spellings of it throughout history.

But yes, actually, this family is, by an unusual path, the origin of the character Crichton in Red Dwarf's name. What? Yeah. So, a member of this Crichton family was James the Admirable Crichton, the Scottish polymath, a famous historical genius in Scotland. And the author J.M. Barry, not to be confused with Chris Barry, also of Red Dwarf, took that name for his book The Admirable Crichton, about a butler

who was particularly talented, which was made into a film in 1957. And so for a time, you know the way Jeeves and in some countries, Sebastian are synonymous with butlers. No about Jeeves, I did not know about Sebastian. I think in Japan it's Sebastian. Really? Because of an anime or something. But for a time, Crichton was synonymous with butlers. And so Crichton in Red Dwarf, of course, when he first appears, played by David Ross, not Robert Llewellyn, he's the butler on a crashed ship, which is the premise of the film.

The Admiral Bust Crichton, a ship crashes and the butler has to look after all of them. And so yeah, it's like in Red Dwarf is what I'm saying. Wow. Yeah, I didn't know that. I just found that out earlier today. Didn't realize. Good fact. But the rest of them were awful.

Every time I read about a Crichton, there's a new person being murdered. Oh, they were all murderers or they were all getting murdered? No, mostly murderers. At least one of them was murdered. Confusing thing is they're all called Robert. Apart from that one, James the Admiral Crichton, there's so many Roberts I can't work out whether we've got just one really bad Robert who murders a lot of people or whether loads of different robbers throughout time murdering several people.

I see. Because they're all called Robert. Their cousin is called Robert and their son and father are called Robert. Very confusing. That is, yeah, that's silly. But Sanker Castle, you've got to see this place. It's your classic Scottish castle. It's ruined now, but it's grim.

The peel is just a square block. It's a real, a real turd of a castle. You know, miserable, grim, dumpy, a proper pile of grey stone. Yes, I'm looking at it now. Very atmospheric. Because if you Google it, you'll see probably a picture with like a naked tree, like a gnarled dead tree next to it. Yeah.

And a barbed wire fence. And a barbed wire fence. And that, if anything, is to keep the ghosts in. Oh. Because Sanker Castle is haunted, of course. Right. A couple of ghosts. Marion of Daypether, which is spelled Dal-peda, but I think is pronounced

Day-peather. Day-peather. Marion of Daypether was murdered by one of the Crichtons in, supposedly, allegedly, in the late 16th century. And this might be true because apparently, according to Lily Seafield's Scottish Ghosts 2002, during excavations in the 1870s, a skeleton was found in the grounds of the castle with long hair still attached to the skull. With long hair?

Long hair, yeah, like a lady would have. Like, yes. Ooh, is it still growing after death? I cannot prove that, but almost certainly yes. But she is joined by a ghost who is heard and not seen. The ghost of Sir Thomas Kirkpatrick of Closeburn, or Closebum if you like. Closeburn, Closebum. Ouch.

That was a Closeburn. Who according to J. Maxwell Woods, witchcraft in the South Western District of Scotland, I don't know why in there is capitalised, but that's how it's written. From 1911, he suffered innocently at the hands of the sixth Lord Crichton and Sir Thomas makes himself known with the sound of clanking chains. Although according to Lily Seyfield, the clanking ghost is actually John Wilson, who was a friend of Sir Thomas, who the Lord Crichton hanged out of spite. So that's a bit of fuzziness there. And modern accounts I've read of the stories

have it completely differently. They have John Wilson taking the blame for Marion of Daypether's murder and being hanged. So he was her lover and the Crichton was envious. So all the ghosts are sort of bundled together in a confusing way. Jason Vale A ghost love triangle. Jason Vale Yeah. Well, one of them is alive, but two of the points of that triangle are dead. And the other point is an unadmirable critan. Oh no. Now let us leave, Sanker,

and turn to the stretch of road which runs alongside the River Nith. Yes. Which was, I don't need to tell you, remarkable for its huge and girthy trees. James Brown is obsessed with this. He describes the trees. You might be tempted to just describe the height, not James Brown. He mainly goes for girth and occasionally mentions the height of a tree. The trees by Eliak House were even more impressive apparently. He describes one as being 172 inches around the butt, which suggests that Sir Mix-A-Lot was perhaps an uncredited contributor.

Yeah. Well, I guess James Brown is a musician. They weren't the same genre. They would have mixed in similar circles. They could have collaborated. That same route along the river was often traveled by peddlers. Sorry, I'm just trying to think of a junk in the trunk. You don't want to leave 172 inches around the but just yet. You want to stay in this area of the podcast for a while. But it helps you visualise the area. Huge trees, a river, a lonely road.

Oft travelled by chapman or peddlers. People who would go door to door selling. Selling chapsticks. While you and I might find door to door salesmen a little annoying, if they still existed, you can't imagine how popular peddlers were in the lonely countryside in the olden days. I'm going to read from James Brown's book, doing a generic American accent to distinguish him from the Scottish. He is obviously a Scottish writer, but I've also got William Wilson to quote in a minute. So I'm going to do an American accent for James Brown because he's American.

Right. I'm not going to do a specific impression of James Brown. I'm not going to sing it. I'm just going to do American. Okay. I'll just give you an intro then. Their visits were looked forward to and were always welcome. Not only did the women folk in particular take pleasure in the inspection of his wares,

which he was careful to spread out in the most tempting fashion, but the good man was always glad too to see the peddler. He gladly welcomed the visit of one who had not only a well-filled pack, but a mind stored with the folklore of the whole wide district and the current public news of the country. In days when people's society was confined to that of their nearest neighbors, before the age of newspapers and railways, the peddler's crack was the only source from which they could learn what was going on outside the circle of their own immediate surroundings. This James Brown is talking about the thickness of the trunks.

Yes. I pronounce that with two C's. The size of these peddlers packages. T-R-U-N-C-C or T-H-I-C-C. The size of these peddlers packages. Yes. Yep. And then you're getting the news out of the peddlers crack. Getting the news out of the peddlers crack and spreading his words in

the most tempting fashion. Yeah. Oh, yoi yoi. I, if I had been James Brown, I probably would have tried to get Papa's got a brand new bag in there. Seems like he missed opportunity really. Does. But let me tell you, James, when an unfortunate peddler called at Little Mark Farm one night, the tenants of that farm were after more than his crack.

It's time to meet our headless and bodiless ghost. What? I'd almost forgotten. Yeah, yeah, I know. I set it up at the start. Remember the pre-title sequence, the cold open. William Wilson writes, little Mark has a small farm on the early Oka state, about three miles from Sanka on the right bank of the Nith.

The house is surrounded by trees. Doesn't mention how girthy they are, just move straight on. And is altogether a very lonely spot. For many years this place had the reputation of being haunted. The apparition was seen by persons passing near the house in the gloaming or hazy moonlight and took the form of a bundle of goods like a peddler's pack moving along the ground a short distance in front of the observer. Oh, what?

On a nearer approach, the pack disappeared, or rather mysteriously lessened and melted into space. So the ghost of the peddler is the peddler's backpack on his shoulders. Just the package. Yeah, I don't think I've had a ghost where it's just his accessories basically. Just the bum bag. Or like a ghost on a school trip. You probably couldn't tell because they'd be mixed in.

You know when it's all that you see a bunch of kids and they've got the same backpack. Or backpacks, yeah. You probably wouldn't be able to tell if there was a ghost backpack amongst them. It's a new kind of ghost. As yet unrecorded by lawmen. So not far away in Sanka there was a shepherd called Andrew Gawley, who I think I would call Sandy, Sandy Gawley, but it doesn't say that people called him that. But he was courting young Mary Graham of Little Mark Farm, and she invited him to a tryst one night at the farm where she lived with her brutish brothers, Robert and Joseph.

one night at the farm where she lived with her brutish brothers Robert and Joseph. As he approached, you know, young man looking forward to seeing his bow, he noticed that all the lights seemed to be off. The windows were shuttered and he heard sounds of violence coming from the farmhouse. He approached, affrighted and observing that one of the window panes was broken. He put in the end of his stick and raised the curtain when to his horror he saw the two brothers aided by their sister engaged in strangling the unfortunate peddler. They killed him for his package. He hurried home as fast as he could but said nothing of what he had seen to anyone but his mother. He had cared a great deal for the young woman, and he did not wish to expose her.

Of course, he never went to see her again. Some weeks after this terrible night, however, she met him at Sanker Fair, when she began to rate him soundly for not keeping his trist. Gurley unwisely told her that he had been true to his promise, that he had been at Little Mark and asked her what bloody business she and her brothers were engaged in on that night. He then turned round and left her. Ay, ay, ay. Yeah.

Why ask a question if you don't want the answer, Gurley? Big mistake because a short while later, Gurley was driving his sheep near Menekfoot and the Grahams were lying in wait. They went for him. He had to flee. He leapt into the river Nith to escape them, which is a dangerous thing to do. It's a fast flowing river, but he reasoned that they would be too cowardly to follow him into the treacherous waters. It's difficult to let people know where you are as well. If you're crying for

help, they say, where are you? I went, the River Nith, the River Nith. It's very hard to say. It's a hard thing to say. He found himself clinging onto a stone, clinging on for dear life, to keep himself from being dragged into a deep pool. But the Grahams changed. They pelted him with stones until he let go, and he was pulled under and drowned. These are not golden Grahams. No, some of the worst Grahams. These are like bad cinnamon ones.

Yeah. Of course, his poor mother immediately works out what had happened because she knew that the Grahams were responsible for murdering the peddler. And she roused the local Sankarians, you might call them, Sankers. And they headed to Little Mark Farm only to find that the Grahams had flown the coop. They escaped justice. It was years, years until the peddler's body was found in the peat of Elioch Moor. Perfectly preserved, it is said, although when it was exposed to air, it crumbled to, friend of the podcast, dust.

It simply must be dust. And there's the sad tale of the peddler's horse, James, which wandered Elioch woods, but apparently people were too afraid to approach it and so eventually it died. Oh. We don't know how long it took for it to die. So maybe it lived. I afraid to approach it and so eventually it died. We don't know how long it took for it to die. So maybe it lived, I like to think it probably made friends with a like a sparrow and a wise cracking rabbit. Oh, definitely.

Had a little adventure. Yeah. And then died of old age. Because what horses eat? Apples, carrots, crisps, or crisps maybe. They eat grass. They could probably eat a bit of grass off the ground. Polos, polos and horseradish.

Oh, I always assumed that was for like gingering up a horse horseradish. Oh no. And, but definitely not stinking Willy. That will, that will kill them. Will it? I mean, the name is just seem like a warning. To horses. To everyone, I think, really. Just a general warning plant. I know you would probably like some kind of justice, some kind of satisfying narrative resolution. The best I can offer

you is this. Joseph Graham, the younger of the two Graham brothers, supposedly returned to Sanka in his old age, traveling under the name Beggar Johnny. Can I tell you what I want to happen? What do you want to happen? I want that horse to kick him in the head. It's almost as good as that. He was a feeble old man and begging, but he was still recognized by the people and they

accused him of the crime. They accused him of the murder of the peddler and of Andrew. And he confessed everything and then was seized with a fit and died. Or alternatively, an unrelated beggar came to town with a different name. And they bullied him. And the villagers accused him of being a murderer and then he died of a fit. So two possibilities there. And Mary Graham came back in her old age, but wasn't welcome in the town

and lived out as a lady of the Moors in an old hut. And everyone was very glad when she died. She didn't have an adventure with a rabbit and a wisecracking sparrow. She didn't know wisecracking for you, young lady or old lady. William Wilson concludes, if at night a wailing sound is heard to come from the nith or issue from the Elioque woods, it is said to be the cry of the spirit of the murdered shepherd. And the peddler's bum bag is separate, a separate ghost.

Separate ghost, separate ghost. So that, James, is the story of the little Mark murder. Oh, that's good. It's got got a bit of ghost, got a bit of true crime, got a bit of pranking early on. Just some fun pranks at the start to ease you into it. Yeah. Just some fun pranks. It's got some of the girthiest trees we've ever had on the podcast. Are you ready to score this, James?

Yeah. My first category for you, no body or noise. So I was thinking this sounds like air. Sounds like some air. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Fair play.

But yeah, you brought it around with the backpack. The famous Bumbag Ghost, yes. Yes. And there was, yeah, there was another invisible ghost. There was another invisible ghost, which was a sound. Yes, the sound of clanking chains with two possible names, possibly Thomas, possibly John. Could have been clanking chains, like, you know, imprisoned in the afterlife, or it could have been that they had one of them chains on their wallet. You know, that people had. Yeah.

They could have just been into metal, like into Lincoln park. I think it was more that he was imprisoned and tortured in the castle, but it could, it could be the new metal thing. If the other guy had a bum bag. Yeah, it's possible. I can't say it's impossible. They're into their satchel fashion and the white lady. And the peddler probably had a choker. Oh yeah. Very nineties. Although now I just remember he was strangled. Yes,

that's insensitive. Yeah. So, and then you've got, yes, the ghost in the river, the noise, the noises from the river. And yeah, there's loads. I think it is, I think it's a decent five, you know. It's a five. Oh wow. Okay. Great. I don't want a decent five, you know. Oh, it's a five. Oh, wow. Okay. Great. I don't want to sound surprised, but great. Okay. All right.

In that case, my next category is names. Okay. Now, I'm, I think this is the problem with Lowland Scotland. All the people just have very normal sounding names. There's no Ranald, Mick Macmore. There's none of that Gallic business going on with the names. There's no Ranald, Mick, Mack, Moore. There's none of that Gallic business going on with the names. There's a lot of Grahams. I didn't even tell you that Tammy, the guy who was shaving also called Graham. Another Graham.

He was Tammy Graham. Yeah. And there was about four Rob, four Robs. A lot of Roberts. Yes. But we had little Richard. I know. I mean, we did have a little, we had little Mark. Little Richard. I mean, we did have a little, we had Little Mark. Little Mark. We had Little Mark. We had James Brown. We've got Elioque Woods, Elioque Bridge. We've got Sanker, Sankoir, if you want to pronounce it wrong. Bunch of Sankers. Yeah. The Knithsdale, the confessions of a Knithsdale shoemaker, possible film franchise

spin-off idea. Definitely. The unadmirable Crichtons. Confessions of a Nithsdale Shoemaker, possible film franchise spin-off idea. Definitely. The unadmirable Crichtons. Yes. And the origin of the Red Dwarf character, Crichton. The origin of Crichton. So it's good.

I'd say it's a four and it just needed that little bit of spice, little bit of rhythm just to put it over into. Well, I mean, Andrew Gurley's surname was Gurley. So I put it to you because he is murdered. Gurley, Gurley, Gurley, Gurley, Gurley, Gurley, Gurley, Gurley, gotcha. No, no, that's worth nothing. Okay. All right.

Okay. I accept the four. My next category. It's a man's man's man's world. I don't know if I said the right number of man's there because that song by friend of the podcast, James Brown captures sort of the injustice, sort of the injustices of like cruel men and overlooked women. And you've got a bit of that with the Crichton's, you know, they were, Oh, there's a Crichton thing.

I didn't even tell you. Crichton was one of the Crichtons, you know, they were, oh, there's a Crichton thing. I didn't even tell you. One of the Crichtons was fencing with his fencing trainer. And he took it a little bit too far. And then by accident, his teacher got him in the eye and blinded him. And he sent one of his men around, also called Robert, annoyingly, to murder the teacher one night at his lodgings. Yes. Really, really nasty, nasty pieces of work some of these, Roberts. That is, yeah. I mean, if only there was some sort of guidance about what an eye is worth. Exactly. And it's not an eye for killing an entire man. So we've got the horrible Crichtons. Yes.

We've got the horrible Grahams. Yes. Yeah. And it was mostly men in the story. Really. It was mostly, although to be fair, to be fair, Mary Graham was a wrong-un herself, wasn't she? She was a wrong-un. She did moida. She was involved in that moida. But the guys doing the running around town taunting old Tammy, they were also guys. Boys will be boys. Apparently so. And maybe even that strangling was a running that just got out

of hand, potentially. They just ran him so much that he died. He died of running. And even the shoemaker was conning all the housewives and really making a lot of work for himself. It's like, it's sort of a prank on your own self really. What do you do? I get up early in the morning and I fill everyone's chimney with soil. Yeah. And then later in the day, I take it out again. Yeah, got him. Why would he? Yes.

It sounds really difficult as well. Like, I guess maybe just sort of put like a, a clod of sod over the top and then you could just lift it off. That's what he would do, a clod of sod. Yeah, absolutely. Shovel in shovel loads of soil. Yeah. But he's the, I think the forerunner to those guys who do YouTube videos where they prank their girlfriends and then immediately go to hell for being bad and the worst guys. Because James, it's a man's man's man's man's man's man's world.

But it would be nothing without strangulation by a woman. Is it, or is it not a man's man's man's man's man's man's world? But then there was a woman in there. So it's four out of five. Okay. Cause it would be nothing without a woman or a girl. Yeah. Yeah.

You're lucky. It would have been nothing. And my final category for you, James is limerick. Ah, wait a girl. Yeah. Yeah. You're lucky. It would have been nothing. And my final category for you, James, is limerick. Wait a minute. I've got to do my limerick. There once was a young man from Sanka, whose girlfriend was worse than a pranker. He tried to do right, but she gave him a fright and he fell in the river and sank her. Oh, that is lovely stuff. Do I hear the sound of applause? Definitely. Thank you. Just a little, a little not rude limerick that we can all enjoy.

A lovely limerick about murder for the family. Exactly. A child-friendly murder-based limerick. That was fantastic. Thank you very much. And as we all know, the rhyme scheme of a limerick is such that it has five lines, so it has to be five points. Yes, I did that on purpose. I knew how many lines there were in a limerick, but I was hoping you weren't thinking about how many rhymes

there are in a limerick because that's two. Thank you very much. That was a very high scoring episode. Thank you, James. Have I taken advantage of you because you're weak? You're in a weakened state like an old lion. Yes, I think you have. Well, that was a lovely story, Alistair. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. And I think there's a few outtakes from that that will end up as a little bonus episode. It's mostly sneezing, but I do think it's worth much. And I think there's a few outtakes from that that will end up as a little bonus episode. It's mostly sneezing, but I do think it's worth listening to. I think we'll cut out some of me blowing my nose. Yeah. People can access that by joining us on patreon.com forward slash lawmen pod, which will help support the show. Thank you to all the people who already do support the show in that way. Thank you. Thank you to Joe for editing this episode. Cheers Joe. And thank you to you for listening to it actually. Alistair, I think we need a record scratch. Okay. Error,

error. So we guested on a podcast together. Yes we did. It was a game show format. It was Who Knew It with Matt Stewart. It was really fun. I had a great time. I was in front of a live studio audience or just in front of some people in Balamb. But lovely Dave Warner Key as well. Oh yeah, Dave was there. Dave, both of them from the Do Go On podcast as well. How would you describe the format? It's a podcast game show where you have to make up fake answers to questions. And you, James Shake Shaft are notoriously good at the game.

I'm quite... You tricked me into going on the show. I did. And there was one bit where I did a gambit, which I I didn't believe would work, but I felt like a Batman villain and I felt incredibly guilty whilst it was working. It was so good, the Shake Shaff Gambit. I fell for it completely.

Yeah. I've never... I have been shake shafted. There was, I mean, there was a bit at the end where I was so caught up in the game that I didn't reference the fact that we were talking about Viking Jesuses and, and you were sat right next to me. Yeah. Nobody, nobody noticed that I look a little bit like a Viking Jesus.

Yeah. I, so I thought that was how giddy James was. Oh, I was ever so giddy. Oh, it was a lot of fun. So yeah, check that out. That is called Who Knew It with Matt Stewart. We'll pop a little clip at the end. Error, error.

["Who Knew It with Matt Stewart"] Rachel in the front row, this is your question. The Mitford sisters, don't give anything away with your face. Alistair is one of the best English face readers out there. So don't say anything with your face please. In English. The Mitford sisters were infamous in Britain in the 1930s. Times journalist Ben McIntyre

nicknamed them all. There was Diana the fascist, Jessica the communist, Unity the Hitler lover, Nancy the novelist, Deborah the Duchess. But what did he name Pamela? What was Pamela's nickname? I'm sorry, one of them was the fascist and like a third one was the Hitler lover. It feels like we're not clearly distinguishing armaments here. And the different was just the Dutch. One of them loves Hitler but isn't political about it. Just likes his vibe.

He's just a cool guy, not interested in fascism at all. She would often say, he just seems like a good guy to have a beer with. He's the kind of guy to have a beer with. He's the kind of guy I'd have a chat to. As long as we don't get into politics. So you just need the nickname. What was the... Pamela.

Pamela the. Alright, the answers are in. For question number three. The Midford sisters were infamous in Britain in the 1930s. Journalists Ben McIntyre nicknamed them all, Dino the Fascist, etc. What did they call, or what did he call Pamela? The Quiet One. The Original Spider-Man.ltry connoisseur. The human torch.

Or the one to avoid getting stuck talking to at a party. Which is amazing when her sister is a fascist. He'd still pick the fascist. All right, back to you Alistair. We've got the quiet one, the original Spider-Man, the generous lover, the unobtrusive poultry connoisseur, the human torch, or the one who avoid getting stuck talking to at a party. Alright, yeah, the last one is obviously absurd. Two of them are fascists. At least two of them.

One of them is a fascist, one of them likes Hitler. No, no, loves Hitler. I think the unobtrusive poultry connoisseur is, I think that's a Shakespeare original. If it's not, I will tell Hitler, my best friend, about this to the recording. Please don't take that out of context. I think it is probably't a generous lover. I think you probably wouldn't put that in a newspaper.

So I think the correct answer is the quiet one. The quiet one, alright. Although maybe if the one who likes Hitler had been a bit quieter about it. Yeah, imagine what the quiet ones hiding. Yeah, they say you've always got to look out for the quiet ones. And she's up against a fascist and a Hitler lover. Wow. I see there's the original Spider-Man and the Human Torch, which are two superheroes, which makes me think that the real one is a peek behind the curtains of my mind here

Not like with the batfish That the real one is one of them two and someone some played off Maybe the house has played off that so I'm gonna go with the human torch because perhaps she could light up a room But also perhaps she had the power to control fire Also, perhaps she had the power to control fire. All right. Here's the answers. The one to avoid getting stuck talking to at a party, that was Dave Warnock here.

Yes. Very good. So am I the one to avoid getting stuck? You're on. You're on. You know it. I think it is more of the Hitler lover. The generous lover, that was The House. The original Spider-Man, that was James.

Wait a minute, you... The original Spider-Man? I forgot. I said it quite earlier, then I got very distracted by the batfish, the appendages. Which is also a type of superhero, presumably. Alistair went for the quiet one, but that was Rachel, okay, the house. Oh, you got me.

You got me, Rachel. The human torch, James went for that. That was Alistair. So you two are smiling. I went for that, because I thought you would think it was something Dave would write, which I now realize makes no sense at all It worked

Inceptions beyond Inceptions But that means no one got the correct answer She is the unobtrusive poultry connoisseur of the world That's the best one I thought that was a Shakespearean original Well maybe I wrote the arc. Well, I'm the... My gosh.

The unobtrusive... Because I hate it when poultry connoisseurs are showy about it. And I prefer them unobtrusive. She may well have also been the one who we're getting sucked talking to, to be honest. It sounds like she was quiet about her poetry connoisseurship. So maybe in a way I was right.

And also she could light up the coop. So maybe I was also... No, I wasn't.