Loremen Podcast - Loremen S6Ep12 - The Ghouls of Greenwich

Episode Date: April 17, 2025

We visit The Queen's House* in Greenwich, where a spiral staircase is haunted by a blurry ghost. And a stroll in Greenwich Park is no walk in the cake either. The park is home to early medieval barrows, disrespectful deer and very nasty things that like to drop from trees. *Don't worry, she was out. This episode was edited by Joseph Burrows - Audio Editor Join the LoreFolk at patreon.com/loremenpod ko-fi.com/loremen Check the sweet, sweet merch here... https://www.teepublic.com/stores/loremen-podcast?ref_id=24631 @loremenpod youtube.com/loremenpodcast www.instagram.com/loremenpod www.facebook.com/loremenpod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Unwrap the early days of your favorite hockey stars with Tim's new retrospective rookies hockey cards featuring exclusive NHL and PWHL players and retired legends. Collect them all only at Tim's at participating restaurants in Canada for a limited time. Welcome to Lawmen, a podcast about local legends and obscure curiosities from days of yore with me, Alistair Beckett King and me, James Shake Shaft and James. I'm about to take you on a little walk through Greenwich Park. OK, that doesn't sound spooky at all. Yeah, but don't be misled by the bright sunshine and the pleasant smiling tourists, because beneath this gravel-some soil, James, look, ghostly things. Oh, gosh.

Bones, goblins, and all sorts of nastiness. This episode is the ghouls of Greenwich. Yikes. Hello there, James. Hello, Alistair. How are you? I'm all right. Spring is here. It is, isn't it? It's really springy outside. Well, James, I have a collection of tales for you that come from my recent trip to Greenwich because basically it was my birthday recently. Congratulations. Many happy birthdays.

Many, many birthdays still to come. We hope, we hope. Four more years, four more years. Well, maybe a little bit more than that. Well, we'll see. Could be more. It doesn't feel like that many. I may serve three terms. Whoa. Unprecedented. So it was my birthday. I didn't have time to read through any of the dusty old books that we normally do. So I just, basically, my mum came down and we had a lovely trip to Greenwich and I just picked up all the ghosts I could along the way. So this is sort of a, what I did on my holidays kind of an episode. One of the things was my mum told me about a very good film that she'd seen

starring Michael Caine and Frances McDormand, but she couldn't remember the title of it. Oh, yeah. And then after thinking for a little while, actually, it wasn't Frances McDormand. And then after about half an hour, she remembered that Michael Caine wasn't in it either. So she basically she saw a film. And that's the only thing she knows about it. It's not Fargo nor Get Carter.

Yeah, that's what we've ruled some films out. It's not the IPCRIS file or three billboards outside Ebbing, Missouri. We know that much. I think it turned out to be an Ian McKellen film. You know Ian McKellen, Michael Caine? Same guy. Hmm. Yeah.

Basically. Thou shalt not pass. Not a lot of people know that. You're only supposed to blow the doors off. I love the way all of us were both doing Gandalf and not Ian McKellen's normal voice. It's too difficult to do. Just do a really, really breath-through Gandalf. As if he talks like that the whole time. So we went to the Queen's House, which is just next to the naval...

Bucketham Palace? No, not that Queen. Not the dead old Queen. And even deader Queen. What? You know the Naval College in Greenwich? It's a very famous building. It's been in every single period drama ever shot in the UK. So if you haven't seen it before, if you Google it, you'll go, oh, I have seen that before. It's in everything. Is it because it's got that big hill by it, big bit of grass? It's got the hill and the hill is Greenwich Park and it's a very beautiful sort of classical building. It's got a beautiful colonnade,

which is always in movies. It's in Thor. It's got a beautiful colonnade, which is always in movies. It's in Thor. It's in one of the Thor films, which I haven't seen. It is. It's probably in Pride and Prejudice. It's in, it's in all of them. And it used to be the Naval Hospital and it's next to the Queen's house. You've got to specialise, I suppose.

Yeah. They just do the middle bit. In whose in throat and then, yeah. So basically retired and injured sailors would end up there. And Greenwich Park used to be the preserve of retired Jack Tars who could be seen and you could go there and just feed them crisps from your hand if you wanted or something like that. Give them a little nip of rum.

Don't tell the matron. And the Naval College is haunted by the ghost of Admiral Bing. Bing? Admiral Bing. Bing? Admiral Bing, yes. Wow. Is that the real name of the guy from the Admiral car insurance? It feels like it would be a microwave. And his full name was... Bing. No, of course, that isn't true.

The reason it's haunted by the ghost of Admiral Chandler Bing is that No, of course, that isn't true. The reason it's haunted by the ghost of Admiral Chandler Bing is that he was imprisoned there in what is now the Naval College before his execution. Oh really? Could he be any more court-martialed? In fact, he could because he was shot by firing squad in 1757. Yeah, it's actually quite a sad story. In fact, he could because he was shot by firing squad in 1757. Yeah, it's actually quite a sad story.

I set it up as if it was whimsical, but his first name was actually John, by the way, not Chandler. Right. And he really, he got a bad, bad deal because I don't want to side with the British Navy or British Naval officers because, you know, maybe historically haven't always been the good guys. But he got into really big trouble because he lost Menorca to the French and we wanted that. And it was very unpopular that we lost it to the French of all people.

But they had recently made a law that it was a capital offence for officers not to do their utmost in battle. So my interpretation of that based on very little knowledge is if you, you know, sort of realized you were losing and rather than sacrificing all of the people on the ship turned back, you were in big trouble. So he, you know, he didn't fight to the last. And so he, yeah, so he was sentenced to be killed. Maybe if he hadn't been going commando, it's too sad, too sad. A story for another friend's reference there.

I've got an alternative version of that if you prefer. So no one told you love was gonna be this way, but that's the sound of firing squad. Yeah. It's like bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, if you think that was in too bad taste, just edit it out of your memory of the episode. Yes. I'll just have my apology earlier and just make it about that. We'll just make that a blanket apology for anything that we say in the future.

So that's Admiral Bing. I don't really want to talk too much about him because obviously I don't really know anything about that. I visited the Queen's house, which I think was the first classical building in Britain in the classical style. So it looks fantastic. It's all white marble and columns and it's very beautiful. The original Queen's House was given by James I of England to his wife Anne of Denmark as an apology after she shot his dog. Will Barron What? Will Barron Yeah.

Will Barron What? Will Barron Yeah. What? Yeah, that's how things worked in those days. You shoot a dog, you get a free house. Girls gotta get on that property ladder. Yes. So what happened was they were hunting, I think, and she accidentally, accidentally shot his dog and he was very angry.

Yeah. And then he felt so bad. He gave her a house. Was he? Oh. This was in 1613, I think. He was very angry. And then he felt so bad he gave her a house. This was in 1613, I think. And obviously we all feel quite bad for the dog. But to make me feel better about it, I'm just imagining a really awful dog.

Like a real poo poo stinks of a dog. Oh yeah. I know that's sort of... That's the kind of dog a king would have. I'm chasing the game. Bang. Done. Give me a house. It wouldn't have been a King Charles spaniel because King Charles didn't exist as a concept

at this point. Indeed, he didn't. And it's good that you mentioned King Charles because Charles I is the guy who was responsible for the Queen's house as it appears today. That's Charles I in the popular Charles trilogy. Originally he was called Raiders of the Lost Ark, but then they renamed it to Charles I and the Raiders of the Lost Ark, which never really worked, but that's fine. He commissioned Inigo Jones to build the Queen's House that you can visit today. The famous architect. We had a lovely time going up and down the Tulip staircase, which is a spiral staircase

that was an architectural wonder in its day, because it was the first spiral staircase in Britain to have no central support column. You know the way British spiral staircases go around the middle bit and they're always quite dark. They're a pole with stairs attached basically, aren't they? This is not that. They go around the outside of the cylindrical, you might say, tower. It may become obvious that I'm not an architect here, but there's nothing in the middle. So the skylight above shines a shaft of light right the way down the entire staircase. It's very beautiful. If you Google it, you'll see pictures of it.

And the steps sort of wind around the outer wall. Oh, so it's like the stairs are on the inside of a tube. Yes, that's exactly right. The stairs are on the inside of the tube. It's called the tulip staircase because of the decorations in the ironwork of the railings, but twist the they're meant to be lilies. I think they're not really tulips. Oh, embarrassing.

And now James, I'm sure you're aware I've given you four mystery envelopes. Yeah. Or JPEGs, but let's call them mystery envelopes for the purpose of the episode. It's time to open the first of your mystery envelopes and tell me what you see within. Oh, that's scary. Yeah. It's a very weird, scary image. If the listener wants to follow along, you need to Google Reverend Hardy's photograph of the ghost on the tulip staircase.

And it is a very confusing image because it sort of reads as an optical illusion. It's hard to tell what's up and what's down in it, but you are looking up at the bottom side of a staircase, which is curving around anti-clockwise. Right. And what can you see on that staircase, James? Well, there's a sort of a light that I thought that looks a bit like a three eyed alien, and then, and then I slowly realized underneath that. Well done for correctly identifying that as a light.

Yes. That is a candelabra fixed to the wall. Underneath that there's some sort of shapes and then they came into focus and it's like a, like a sort of, ethereal figure of a ghost with long white flowing robes. And Alistair, the face that I can make out is very familiar looking. I must admit. Are you, I can't see a face in it. What are you saying? Oh, well, it's not to proportion. If you look directly down from the right hand, oh, it's total pareidolia, directly down from the right hand of the three candles, yes, would be about where this specter's ear would be. Are you saying that's my face?

Yeah, I think it looks a bit like you from Unisex from Unisex 31. We do have the same face apart from he's got a fringe. That's how you can tell us apart. He's got bangs. Yeah. It's a very weird distorted ghost that seems to have one elongated arm, although. Yeah, it's kind of, or a really long neck. And then your head on the top of it. Eagle-eyed viewers might notice that the two hands are both a left hand.

It really, really looks like a ghost. I'll say that much. Yeah. Yeah. The Paranormal Database calls this the phantom hand, but really it's more like a figure or figures, but the hands are the really clear part of it. It's kind of an accidental MC Escher kind of thing. It's very confusing to look at.

And the story of this photograph is told in detail in The Ghost Hunters Guide by Mr. President of the Ghost Club, Peter Underwood. Oh, yes. It's the 19th of June. Are you saluting him, James? Yeah. Yeah, good.

Me too. The only president I recognise. It's the 19th of June. It's 1966 and Reverend Hardy and his wife, who hail from White Rock in British Columbia, are visiting London. They snap this picture in the tulip staircase in the Queen's house. Only when the Reverend Hardy returned to Canada and developed the picture did they see the specter that appears to be ascending the staircase.

The Ghost Club investigated. I think Reverend Hardy had a cousin who was in the Ghost Club. The Ghost Club held seances and attempts to recreate the photo and didn't manage to recreate it, didn't manage to make any kind of spiritual contact of any kind. But it was thoroughly investigated. And if there are photograph nerds listening, it was shot at f4 on 64 ISO film, which is quite slow, meaning it needs a lot of light. Some websites say it was a one second exposure, which is quite long,

but Underwood says it was a four to six second exposure, which is extremely long. Yeah. And so most people think it's probably just a long exposure of somebody going up the staircase while he holds the camera remarkably still. But, but James, the reverend's wife remembers the taking of that photograph in quite specific detail. She remembers that a group of tourists stood back to allow her husband to take the picture. And most importantly, so importantly, I'm going to attempt a Canadian accent for this. This may or may not be a British Columbian accent. We'll see.

I mention all this to indicate that no person or a visible object could have intervened without my noticing it. Also, we had previously tried to ascend the staircase, but were blocked by a no-admittance sign and a rope barrier at the foot of the stairs." So are you reacting to the news there or are you reacting to my spot on Canadian accent? Which one of them has shot you into silence? I genuinely think they've spent some time in Wales. Well, they're well-draggled. I normally say that as a joke,

but they did sound like a bit of Welsh in there. What, so yeah, the only person that can get through a barrier or a no-admittance sign is a ghost. Nobody could get past one of those velvet ropes apart from a spirit. Yes, we can see two hands in order to unclip it and clip it back on again. Shall I do that again in a New Zealand accent? Just for safety. A little bit.

I mention all this to indicate that no person or visible object could have intervened without my noticing it. No, lost it. Lost it. It was really good. Then it went Welsh. Is that the only ghost in Greenwich Park? No way. Is that not Bing? Is that Bing? Is that men of potentially Bing? No, Bing supposedly haunts the Naval College, which is right next door, but not actually the Queen's house. So you're on two ghosts so far. And now I've got, I think, at least four for you. These ghosts are the Red Paw bearers of Greenwich Park. And this story comes from Haunted London by Richard Jones. Now I can't find a pre-year 2000 source for this story, but I would love to know where

it comes from. It always seems to be dated to 1934 when an unnamed female dog walker. I mean, the pedant in me wants to clear up whether this was someone who exclusively She would not walk male dogs, no. Walked the bees. No, a woman who was a dog walker, I should say. Not a dog walker that specialized, had a bee club. Yep. No, absolutely not. Is that a thing?

I don't know. I've just made it up. It sounds like it could be young person slang that I don't understand. Yeah, everything does though nowadays. Does. Yeah. These days. What is it about these days that the young people have become so confusing? Didn't used to be like that when I was young, but it is now. So there was a female dog walker near the Crooms Hill Gate in Greenwich Park. So our lady woman dog walker was near the Croom's Hill Gate in Greenwich Park when she

witnessed a funeral procession. But it was no ordinary. Isn't there such a thing as an ordinary funeral procession? It wasn't one of those, James. It was a spectral funeral procession. Moreover, all of the pallbearers in this procession were women with reddish-brown hair. And their legs disappeared at the knees. They were, and I quote, wading through the earth as if through water. Your classic leg cut off ghosts.

Yes, that's always happened in. The supposition being that the ground level had risen, although this being a park, I don't know why that would have happened. But yeah, if anything, it would have gone down because of rain. I'm not a scientist. We are not scientists of erosion or deposition. When the procession reached the gate, the pallbearers disappeared. Now I can't tell from the accounts I've read whether they

were entering the Croom's Hill gate or leaving the park. But if they were entering, then there is a very interesting link which Richard Jones and other writers have made because the Croom's Hill side of the park is a cemetery, James. And it is to this day a very ancient cemetery. It's home to several early medieval or early middle ages. I don't know what is the correct language. We used to say Anglo-Saxon. We don't now, I think. Barrows.

They're long barrows. Not long barrows. Little round barrows, conical barrows. It's home to many, many conical early middle ages barrows. So they're really late on for barrows, but quite early for middle ages. They date from the fifth to the eighth century. And Richard Jones says that it was a woman's graveyard, but I don't know that that is true. Or it may have been believed that it was a woman's graveyard. They were excavated in 1784, I think, for the first time. And they found evidence of men and women being buried there.

Now, James, please open your second mystery envelope for a picture of the barrows. Oh. And weirdly for me, this one's also an optical illusion because the barrows sort of rise up in relief. And it's like one of those optical illusions. I can't tell whether they're coming towards me or whether they're sunk into the earth. Which one did you see, James? Oh, that's, well, did that tell me if I'm a psychopath? Yeah, it's not a great sign. It was just, they're also telling me not to worry about killing people.

Bad sign there. Really, really worrying. So those are some of the barrows photographed from above and they're pretty sinister, pretty spooky. The landscape is more. That big tree on the right looks spooky. You're scared about that tree? That big tree on the right. I stood next to that very tree. Yes. Was it spooky? No, it was just a tree. Although if you like spooky trees, take that and put a little pin in it for a

moment, James. We'll come back to that in a moment. Now, the Barrows were a source of great controversy in the year 1844. I'm going to turn to the London Illustrated News, that fantastic newspaper that we often read on lawmen. I should say, while trying to find out information about the Barrows, I accidentally read a different edition of the London Evening News from 1844. And if you open your third mystery envelope, you can see an engraving from the London Illustrated News from 1844. Yes. Of the Barrows in Greenwich Park, which do look like some massive pies.

Yeah, they do look like big pies. Or those sort of disposable party plates. Yeah, just upturned. Laid face down. Hmm. Yeah, giants had a picnic. But while I was trying to find this picture, I got the wrong edition of London Illustrated News and I read one from September 28th, 1844. So if you open your final mystery envelope, please describe the picture there in.

What? Is a man, there's a lot of writing. There's a man on a big square, big rectangle rather, and he seems to, it looks like a big fridge on its side. And he seems, I can only assume he's wobbling it back and forth and putting stuff underneath it in order to raise this fridge or block up. You have interpreted it perfectly, James. This is Mr.

Perigol's theory of how the pyramids were built. Out of fridges? No, in fact, no. Have you ever wobbled it back and forth and raised it up? Uh, if I dare say I have in order to get it over a small... But James, for a man of your size, you just got one in each hand, surely? One fridge per arm, holding it under your arms like two pigs. And a mini fridge on my feet, just doing key PMPs with it.

He doesn't even know about that one. Someone's just popped it on there as a joke. So what the idea is they'd rock the block back, put a load of stuff in it, and then rock the block over to the other side, put some stuff, and then they slowly, slowly up. Until they got the block to the desired height. That was Mr. Paragol's idea. But I've got to say, the only real reason I've shown you that is that in this entire article they refer to them as the Pyramids of Jizer.

J-I-Z-E-H. Which is like like maybe when a pyramid surprises you. The pyramids of Jesus. It's like Matt Berry saying it. You triangular b***. So I really, this has nothing to do with the story, except I saw the pyramids of Jesus and thought James will want to know. Yes, you're right. That they used to call them that.

So let's jump back to your third mystery envelope, the barrows in Greenwich Park. Yes. An unnamed correspondent in 1844, specifically June the 2nd, 1844, was very, very inordinately angry about vandalism in Greenwich Park. What do you mean inordinately? Well, I forgot how middle-aged we've both become. Are you very angry when you see graffiti these days, James? Well, if it was on a longbarrow.

Well, in fact, the graffiti does affect the longbarrows, but that's not the only kind of... Sorry, it's not graffiti. Vandalism. The vandalism does affect the longbarrows. But it's not the only kind of vandalism that they were suffering. People were trying to stop you walking on the grass. And our correspondent, I assume he was a he based on the general tone of the piece. He wasn't having any of that. He thought that was outrageous. He was very angry that they

had sectioned off an area of the park as a deer enclosure. And bad news for him, I can tell you that that area is still sectioned off to this day as a deer enclosure. But I'm going to read his complaint about the deer enclosure in full just so you can get a sense of the guy. He complains that a piece of the park has been railed off for the private accommodation of the park has been railed off for the private accommodation of the deer. How very considerate! 50 acres of beautifully wooded parkland, the property of the public, stolen for the use of not more than 30 head of fallow deer, who, by the way, have very seldom honoured this sylvan privacy with their presence, choosing rather to roam in the public walks,

the regions of bun and biscuit in the neighbourhood. It was, nevertheless, a most considerate act. Yes, but it was not for, and this is in scare quotes, the deer. Thigh upon such hypocrisy, it was for the pasturage of the good milchcows of sundry grand officials the robbery was committed. Again, these privileged spirits, these brief authority men, the Sydney Herbots of this much abused locality needed, quote, gravel for sooth, quote, for their gardens and gravel they must have. And gratis too. Torn from the bowels of Greenwich Park, a pit was opened to the back of the observatory

and a fair hillside permanently disfigured. Good. Oh, whoa. He's jumping from deer to people with gravel to Sydney Barrett. Sydney Herbert. Sydney Herbert. Whoever that guy is. He's got it right in the neck.

Really throwing that guy under the bus. We don't really know who that is these days. Oh, poor Sydney Barrett. Yeah. So apparently Greenwich Park is gravel under the grass. So there is, I think it's built on quite a lot of gravel. So he's very upset about that. I mean, I have been to the bit at the back of the observatory. I don't think it was permanently disfigured.

It seems fine now. That's good. Do you think maybe, wait a minute, Alistair, I'm going to blend this case wide open. Was there less gravel there when the funeral, the ghostly funeral, originally happened? Did someone put a load of gravel in? You think those blooming Sydney Herbots were making off with gravel in the coffin? No, I think Sydney Herbots, they put, there was just more gravel there. That funeral must have happened.

Oh, I see. Because of the flaw. I thought you were accusing them of being gravel thieves, a la the Great Escape. A la Sydney Herbert. That guy, that famous gravel thief, Sydney Herbert. Oh, so you think, yes, so the ground level of the park has lowered because of all the gravel that's been stolen. No, no.

The case, you have blown this case open in a different way to that. Yeah, someone's been installing gravel into the park for later Sydney Herberts, the Sydney's Herberts. I think you may have blown this case so wide open, it's actually closed again on the opposite side. In a different place, and I've no longer got the case. But the biggest controversy that he confronts in this very long and extremely angry piece of writing is the hospital wanted to build a reservoir on the top of the hill in case

of a fire in Greenwich Hospital, now the Naval College at the bottom. Sounds reasonable. And they wanted to clear the barrows away and turn that into a reservoir for water. That's a shame. It does seem to be a shame. There was a big outcry and people protested and someone wrote a very angry piece in the Illustrated London News. More angry than that letter?

No, I'm talking about this piece. Oh, right. Okay. While it was being discussed, the hospital rather cheekily started work and, in the words of our correspondent, a set of world's end wretches would let loose on the barrows. Which is a lovely turn of phrase, world's end wretches. Yeah. What does it mean? Just the worst people imaginable, I guess. Like apocalyptically bad dudes. Presumably bikers.

Oh, yeah. Probably like all the people who live in Hill Valley in Back to the Future 2. They've probably got tattoos. You know, the most evil thing you can have. Easily. Japanese bosses. Yes, and a leather coat. Yeah, a coat made of leather and a motorbike. Evil. Pure evil.

And several of what the writer calls the tumuli were destroyed by the wretches. Many of them are still there. Yeah, because I guess in this photo isn't pre that. That you're right. Thankfully, the protesters were successful in the end and the reservoir was built just next to the barrows. It's there now. So I don't know why they thought they needed to clear the barrows to build it when they could just build it a bit further away. I'm no water scientist, but isn't this all next to a river? Well, it is, but it's up a hill, you see.

Okay. But I take your point that they could have just gone down to the Thames and carry the water uphill like chumps. But what if they just stored the water at the top of the hill and used gravity in the case of a fire, then they could just chill out while the fire raged and just allow gravity to do its business. Yeah. It might wash out some of the sailors. Yeah. And a lot of those sailors have wooden appendages, so they're going to be very buoyant. That's good.

And most of them don't know how to swim. Famously. Why was it said that? Because they shouldn't need to. I think it's the if you get ship, I don't know, but I think it's that if you get shipwrecked in the middle of nowhere in the sea, you don't really want to be able to swim because you just want to get it over with. You know, if you're not near land, it's not very useful. Yeah.

I don't know. I don't know. That's what I've heard. Probably best not think about it too hard. Just don't think. I, I don't know. That's what I've heard. Probably, probably best not think about it too hard. Just don't think about it. Just don't think about that. Until very recently, there was a tarmac path running between the barrows so you could walk directly between them. But that has been taken up to preserve the site.

It's hard to tell whether- Are you sure? Do you think it's just been covered with additional gravel? Or has blooming Stanley Herbert come in? Made off with the tarmac. He wants to tarmac his gripe. He's moved on to a slightly more modern road surface. Lock up your crazy paving.

Stanley Herbert's in town. Sydney Herbert. Sydney Herbert. I should have looked up who Sydney Herbert was. I should have known you would fixate on whoever he is. I just don't know. Apologies for being illiterate historically or in terms of drama. Maybe he's a character from a play. He's the first Baron Herbert of Lee. Is he? That's the first one that comes up here, the former Secretary of State for the Colonies. Do Sydney Herbert plus gravel. Do it use boullions

to find out what his relationship was to Gravel. Well, if it's the same one and he was the Secretary of State for the Colonies, it might be more in keeping that he's caricatured as someone who robs stuff off people. Maybe yes, and maybe it was sort of enclosure of public lands that was the issue. Friends with Florence Nightingale. So I can't tell whether our correspondent would be pleased that they've taken up the tarmac and are preserving the site or not pleased because it means you can't walk as easily across it.

But it is now legal to walk on the grass. Good. So I don't know where he would stand on the taking up of that path. I think he would be furious, but I'm not sure about what. I think neither would he. He'd have a go. It'd be easy to get him going, wouldn't it? He'd be like, look at that over there.

Just a bloody Sydney Herbert's over there. What, wait a minute. What era was this letter written? 1844. It's definitely the, it's definitely the one, the guy, the Colonies guy. You think it's him? Yeah, he was the only one. He was active at that time. Yeah, there's a couple later, but this is the proper Herbert. Well, if a proper Herbert, yeah. Well, if you're listening and you are a Wikipedia editor, please add some gravel-related facts to Sydney Herbert's Wikipedia page for future reference.

Yeah. We need, he only has early life, career, personal life, death of memorials. He does not have a controversy section. Yeah, we need to get something in the controversies. Gravel controversies. Get it in there. Whichever is more accurate. So while it is legal to walk on the grass in Greenwich Park these days, you might not want to take shelter under the elms.

What did you say, James, when you saw that aerial photograph? You said that tree looks spooky. Yes, it looks a bit like one of the robots from Robot Wars. Okay, that wasn't what I was thinking, but good. Probably for the best. Which robot from Robot Wars does it look like? I think it looks a bit like... Just for the listener to be able to visualize it, paint a picture with your words. It looks like a Sergeant Bash, but he's been undercover for a long time and he's got all leaves stuck on him.

An undercover Sergeant Bash. That is a remarkably good description. I hope people are visualizing it. For this story, this final story, I'm going to turn to Elliot O'Donnell, the writer who we've talked about before, friend of the podcast. And he is a guy who has a reputation for embellishing and or fabricating his stories. Which is noteworthy in this field because 90% of the people are just making it up. And this guy has a reputation for being a bit dodgy. Vis-a-vis truthfulness.

This story comes from his notebook. The date was July 24th, 1898. Elliot O'Donnell, an Irishman, and I say that just to set you up for the accent that's coming, was walking in Greenwich Park on a summer's day. And to escape the intense heat, which I think it can be very intense because there are wooded areas of the park, there's lots of wide open areas, and on a sunny day it can be very hot there. Or bear in mind, I am ginger when I'm saying that. He rested in the shade of an old elm tree, which as eagle-memory listeners will recall, is a tree that hateth man and waiteth, but on this occasion the elm seemed to pose no threat.

Elliot sat on a bench using the trunk of the tree as a backrest. We can assume it was a backless bench, just one of those ones which is just for the bomb zone. Right. Not that he's sitting backwards in it like a cool teacher. Or he could be, yes. Or he could be sitting with his feet on that part, sitting on the back like a teen would at a bus stop. We don't know. But he's a pretty cool guy. So he could be sitting in whatever the coolest way of sitting on a bench is.

Let's assume he's doing that. And suddenly, James, his rest was disturbed by an icy cold breeze from above. He looked up into the branches overhead. And now I'm going to quote, just allow me to dial in a spot on Irish accent. And then I noticed that the bark of the tree was not only disfigured by unsightly notches and protuberant gnarls, but bore indications of some malignant parasitical disease. Kneeling on the seat to inspect it more closely, I was examining the trunk with interest when a dark object seemed to descend from above and something came plump by my side.

I have never been able to describe the awful shock I received when on turning round to see what it was, my eyes alighted. I think he means lighted. Because if your eyes are light, that means they got off. Like when you were light the train. I don't think that's what happened. That would be even scarier than what he's describing. My eyes, maybe is that a correct usage of the word, alighted? I don't know.

I thought that seems normal if the eyes alight on something. Yeah? Yeah. Okay. It feels right. It can't feel right. My eyes alighted on a figure, half human and half animal, stunted, bloated, pulpy and yellow, crawling sideways like a crab.

It made for a bush opposite, into which it disappeared. I did not wait to see whether it would return, but jumping hurriedly from the seat made tracks for the school, not visiting the park again till the following autumn, when I took care to give that tree a very wide berth. It was obviously just a common elemental or nature spirit, but I don't think any occult manifestation has ever filled me with such

unutterable loathing, nor so effectually dampened, all desire of further investigations." Yeah, pretty spooky stuff. Yeah. Although he did also see a tree goblin in Hyde Park as well, so I sort of think he's the problem to some extent. Yeah. Yeah. He's attracting them tree goblins.

He is the common denominator in most of these plop, plopping goblin stories. No, I've never heard of anyone else describe a tree goblin. Like I've never heard of it at all. Let alone like that. Plump out of a tree and then crab off sideways. It's the first time. So there you go. crab off sideways. It's the first time. So there you go. At least four spooky tales from my little birthday outing to Greenwich Park. Lovely. Thank you very much. And a happy birthday again.

The ghouls of Greenwich Park. The ghouls. The ghouls. That was great. And a very brief detour to Jizze. The pyramids of Jeezer. How would you like to pass score? Oh, judgmentally. Judgmentally? Okay. Shall we? Yeah, let's do it. Okay.

Well, James, the first category in which I would like you to score me is naming. Right. Okay. We've got Jeezer. That's locked. That's saved. We got Jeezer. Clearly, clearly brought in just as a little banker.

That's a point. Admiral Bing. Bing. Nice. Well, Alistair, you're going to get a five out of five for your fiend and mine, Sydney Herbert. For Sydney Herbert? Yeah. Lovely name. Oh, really? Okay, great. I wasn't expecting any points for Sydney Herbert.

Oh, he's tickled me. Oh, that's wonderful. Sydney Herbert! You've got me Sydney Herbert's coming in here stealing my gravel. I'm not getting enough gravel. What is this thing? So is it five out of five just purely because you thought that sounded funny? Yeah, because I like, yes, that's how the scoring works. I'm not complaining. Yeah. Oh, is that how it works?

Yeah. Oh, in that case, I'll accept it and move on to the next category, which is supernatural. Yes. Very spooky. Some of it was history. I concede. The stuff about the dog. That. Very spooky. Some of it was history. I can see it. The stuff about the dog. That isn't spooky. I was genuinely frightened by that picture.

The noise that I made was real. I hadn't looked in the mystery JPEGs before you sent them. Mystery envelopes. I saw them come in and you were like, save these for the mystery envelope JPEGs. They're real envelopes. Make the listener think it was an envelope, James. When you texted me these envelopes. I WhatsApped you a Manila envelope

and I asked you to respect that, James. I looked away. I didn't look directly at them when you said like. It is a very spooky image. It's not a ghost. It's probably a lung exposure and chances are they forgot that somebody went up the stairs. But nonetheless, it's very sinister. It's a good spooky. And they're not one I'd seen

before because I've seen a lot of spooky pictures. And you're right. There is, in the version I sent you, there are JPEG artifacts that look a little bit like my face, but that's just a coincidence. And they're what? We had the four pallbearers as well. The four pallbearers, yes. Well, we don't even know if there were four. You can have six, couldn't you? Pallbearers? You've got a minimum four, right? Min four.

Yeah. And it said funeral procession, so there could have been people following. But they were all women with reddish hair, which is sort of suggestive of, you know, the Britons of that time. Yes. All right then. Yeah, the Britons of that time. Yes. All right then. Yeah, this is a lot of ghosts. This is, I, I think I want to use Ludo rules.

Wait a minute. There's the plop out of the tree. Yeah, the plopper, the tree, tree trunk plop, the Elm tree plopper. We'll work on the name. I think, yeah, I think it's a full, it's a full, it's a full amount of ghosts. So it is five. Is it five again? It's another five. Yeah.

Wow. I wasn't expecting that. Even though one of them was just about, a whole section was just about deer and milch cows. Yeah. I was trying to remember what goes through in that, but I didn't know I said that. There weren't many.

Yeah. I don't remember what goes through in that, but I don't know. I guess in that. There weren't many. Yeah. Mitch cow is the spookiest cow. White like milk and in German for some reason. Are they small? Are they smaller?

Are they mini cows? I don't know. I don't know. They're just German cows. They're like, yeah, my girlfriend's really into focaccia. My girlfriend cow. They probably are girls, but they could, they could be in a sex relationship. Those cows from 1844.

Just want to make sure that I am respecting people's identities. So what was the score? What was the score? I'm asking, I'm asking you that. What am I getting for supernatural? I think you were leaning towards a five. I was a five. It was a five.

Yeah. My next category, it's just started so strongly. I'm really nervous. My next category is it's not a walk in the park. Oh, because not because of the fencing, because of the lack of gravel. Yeah. You couldn't walk on the grass. There's a, they're stealing gravel. It's not easy. A small section of it has been fenced off for those lesbian cows.

Someone has taken the tarmac. Don't we all know who? Yes, the tarmac is now gone. And those paw bearers, they weren't walking in the park. They could have walked. They were walking under the... Oh yeah, they were walking in the park. They really were walking in the park.

They took it too literally. They were walking inside the park. But it's not okay. I've accidentally tripped myself up with wordplay there. But the guy going up the stairs wasn't a walk in the park. It was a walk on the stairs. That was a walk on the stairs and the life of an admiral. No.

Was hardly a cake walk. I think they weren't allowed to duck. They weren't allowed to duck. To duck, yes. They could keep a pet if they wanted. They could have one. But they weren't allowed to. No, in the Pewty bits.

I believe they weren't allowed to duck. Yeah, the ones with the funny, you know, the fancy coats. We really did send people all over the world wearing brightly coloured jackets, telling them not to duck as they invaded places. So four out of five, because some of the people were walking within the park. OK, even though the dog was shot in the park and did not walk anymore. No, no more walkies for him. Yeah, exactly. I'm sorry. I feel bad laughing about the death of a dog.

But it was a long time ago. That dog would be dead of natural causes by now. Four. I'll accept four. Because it's been high score so far. For the fifth category, I was in two minds. I wanted to go with Hall Bearer. I hardly know her. Oh, that's lovely.

But I'm actually going to go, because I think it will be slightly more effective score wise. I'm actually going to go with it's my birthday and I'll get five out of five if I want to. Because you have to give me five out of five change because it's my birthday. I'm the little birthday boy. You are the birthday boy. That is the rules. I'm the birthday boy. Yeah. Happy birthday Alistair. It's a five out of five. About a week and a half ago. It's five out of five, five full birthday points for me.

Yes. Thank you. Blew up those five candles. Well, that was very spooky. Plenty of spookinesses. Thank you. Thank you very much, James. If you would like to write a strongly worded letter to us,

please write it in the character of that guy from the London Illustrated News. Illustrated London News? I'm sure I've been getting the name of that run all the way through. But if you would like to support our endeavors, then go to patreon.com forward slash lawmen pod and do one to the follow the instructions. Thank you very much to Joe for editing this.

Thank you very much the listener for listening to this. Please leave us a review if you can. It was Alistair's birthday at some point. It was my birthday. Yes. And I was on the train. And I overheard a German man with that very sort of polite, modern German accent having a long conversation in which he used the sentence, yeah, my girlfriend is really into focaccia. So I'm just still in a good mood from hearing that. I don't think it's possible to have a bad day if you've heard a German say, my girlfriend is really into focaccia. So I'm doing really well.