Loremen Podcast - Loremen S6Ep15 - Van Gogh in Streatham with Ed Night

Episode Date: May 8, 2025

Comedian Ed Night joins the Loreboys to share legends of Streatham in South London. These stories range from contemporary urban legends to tales from when all this were fields. Plus, a cameo from the Vincent Van Gogh of the art world: Vincent Van Gogh. Check out Ed's tour here. Content Warning: Self-harm, in reference to Van Gogh. We also discuss the case of the supposed "Croydon Cat Killer". And we're as tactful about it as we can be, but the name should give you a sense of the subject matter. This episode was edited by ⁠⁠Joseph Burrows - Audio Editor⁠⁠ Join the LoreFolk at ⁠⁠patreon.com/loremenpod⁠⁠ ⁠⁠ko-fi.com/loremen⁠⁠ Check the sweet, sweet merch here... ⁠⁠https://www.teepublic.com/stores/loremen-podcast?ref_id=24631⁠⁠ @loremenpod ⁠⁠youtube.com/loremenpodcast⁠⁠ ⁠⁠www.instagram.com/loremenpod⁠⁠ ⁠⁠www.facebook.com/loremenpod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to Lawmen, a podcast about local legends and obscure curiosities from days of yore. I'm James Shake Shaft. And I'm Alistair Beckett King. We've got the hilarious comedian Ed Knight. Huge, huge fan of Ed Knight's online comedy sketches. Yes, me too. And he's joined us to tell us all

about his, I believe the term is, manner of Streatham in London. And it's mostly about a little artist you might have heard of called Vinnie Van Gogh. To Americans, that's Vinnie Van Gogh. And before we start, before we start, James, can we have a quick record scratch? Before we start, James, can we have a quick record scratch? We may need just a tiny caveat. We also talk about a South London menace who went by the name of the Croydon cat killer. If that sounds like something you don't want to hear about, you might want to skip to about the halfway point in this one. Yeah, maybe just skip it entirely, but do check out Ed's other stuff, which is not cat

killer related. To be clear, which is not cat killer related. To be clear, he's not the killer. Oh gosh, no, neither am I. And I wasn't going to deny it, but you've sort of forced my hand, neither am I. Yeah, okay. A fascinating set of tales. Let's get that music rolling and get on the Ed Knight trolley. Alastair. Yes, James Shake Shaft. It's the, it's the, we've got a guest whisper, whisper that I'm doing today. I recognised it almost immediately.

Yeah, it's the one. It's almost the same as the mini-soad one, but if you look at the description of the podcast, it says that we've got a guest deputy law person. Can I stop doing it now? Because it's- Yeah, stop doing it, please. It's annoying me as much as it's annoying you. And annoying my larynx. But yes, we've got a guest deputy law person. Please welcome to the show, it's Ed Knight. Hello, Ed.

Hello. Stand-up comedian Ed Knight, no less. Thank you very much for coming on. It's wonderful to have you here, Ed. I'm so honored to finally be a deputy in the law verse. You have been officially deputized. You're in. We're getting a team together and you're in it if this was the post-credit sequence of

a different episode. Thank you. Fantastic. I'm a big fan, Ed, not just of your stand-up, but of the sketches you do with Paddy Young. My favorite sketch, I can't do it here. I can't do it here. I can't describe it really. My favourite one is the one where Paddy has drunk your milk and you are psyching him out about it. Which sounds really, it's like a pinter play, but condensed into like a minute. It's

brilliant. It's very, very funny. That's a personal favourite. Your acting is really good in it as well. Thanks. Yeah, we loved it in that one. My compliments are sounding sarcastic as I'm saying them, but I mean them completely sincerely. Yeah. Yeah. We had a real fun making it because we were just sitting around going, what if we do something about like sticking milk out of the fridge or whatever? And then you like each other on and you get in the zone with writing. It's just really fun to, really fun to make stuff like that.

So I'm glad you like that one. It came out slightly better than the Godfather, I would say in terms of its operatic grandeur. So look up Ed and Paddy milk. I don't know. Just Google milk and eventually stolen milk. Yeah. I'd say it's better than the Godfather.

It certainly has an interesting Volta. Oh, I'm already at my depth. I don't know what that means. I presume it's something to do with electricity. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I get all my enemies get electric shocked while I'm baptizing my newborn child in

milk. Well, I hope that's a reference to something. Otherwise, I'm terrified. No, no, that's something I made up. You've come to us today bearing a gift of tales. Alistair, we didn't discuss this beforehand because Ed, whereabouts are your tales based? They're based in South London, SW16, where I grew up in Streatham. Right.

Cause here we have a problem Alastair, cause both you and I have lived in South London, so who gets dibs? Well, I'm a Northerner. You say you are. And you're a Southerner. So it feels like it should be, I am a Northerner. Ooh, some lovely pies. Oh, I imagine expressing an emotion.

No thanks. What do you call a roll? I call it a Stotty Cake. You've never even heard of that James. You don't even know what that is. A Stotty Cake. That's what they're called where I'm from. Like the babies being baptised bit, you're just making it up to confuse me.

You know, the people have very, very strong opinions on different areas. What if you each tell me where in South London you've lived and then I get to pick who has dibs based on which area I like the most? Hey, I'm going to go in because I don't want it to be me. So I'm going to go straight in with Croydon. Oh, shout out. Yeah. I've got family in Croydon.

So this will, you'll be allowed to mess with Croydon as much as I'm, as I'm allowed to, but you've got familial links to Croydon, right? Yeah, I still have family. My parents still live in, well, to dox them and myself. My parents live in Norbury. So I'm all right. I'm not going to slag off, Croydon. I'm going to talk about interesting things from there. Oh. I've got one particular Croydon-based story and one particular Streatham-based story that

I'd like to talk about. What should we go with first? Should we go with the... Well, we've all lived in Croydon. Let's open with Croydon. Let's open with Croydon. Nobody's ever said that before. This might be the first podcast to say something nice about Croydon. Actually, not a podcast, but a friend's wife from Czech Republic was over and she was driving. We were driving down to my house in Thornton Heath and she could see Croydon on the horizon and she had, she said, wow, it looks like San Francisco. And she'd been to San Francisco.

It's exactly the same. Very foggy day was it? Is that the thing? It looks like a famous prison. Is that the thing? It looks like a famous prison. They do have trams. Both, both have trams.

Good shout. Good point. We, we couldn't see the trams. You can't get to Wimbledon from San Francisco. You can't. No, I do love Croydon. There's a, there's a, there's a sort of a, for some reason, like you can see the same few buildings around East Croydon from my bedroom window, my seat at Sellers Park and from the top of Pollards Hill, which is my favorite place to go and get a breath of fresh air.

So I just love, and then I used to love going to Croydon or like into Croydon town when I was a kid, you know, with my granddad and stuff. So I love Croydon. I think it's, you know, one of the best places in the world. Croydon and Streatham. That's beautiful. I've got Croydon and Streatham pumping through my veins. So nice. I do think you should go to some more places just for comparison. I've basically been to San Francisco.

Yeah. Don't need to bother with it now. Exactly. I know. The Golden Gate Bridge, City Lights. Have they got a CEX? They've got one of those. Definitely don't have eight or nine. So what, yeah, what's your Croydon tale? Well, it's on my mind. I wasn't planning to talk about this, but it's on my mind.

I was out with some friends last night and they brought it up and were talking to me about it. Me and my girlfriend were talking to them about it. The Croydon cat killer. We may need a content warning there, but it would be for the idea of cat killing. So it might be a bit late. Yes. Yeah. I remember it well. Yeah. What did he do? Well, unfortunately he's not going to surprise you. It was fascinating to me, not only because at the time it all sort of popped off. I was 20,

living with my parents in Croydon. Well, it's weird. I actually, I can say what I like because the postcode we live in is SW16, but our constituency is Croydon North. I lived in the constituency of Croydon North. So I lived in the constituency of Croydon North. I'm a man with a foot in two worlds. My parents have a cat. We have a cat. And at the time it was very worrying. You know, it was this huge, I'm fascinated with it because basically what happened, do you want me to explain the story?

Yes, please. Family in Addington, very sad story, around 2015, 2016, their cat is killed and left on their doorstep. And then happens a couple more times around the area where it's like cats are killed and left for their owners to find. And it's like a segment on local London news, stuff like that. And then eventually the police start a... A local couple starts a charity to investigate and then the police get involved and start a task force and vets get involved saying they've done post-mortems and this couldn't have been done by a fox or whatever. This is done by a human. But then the like the local, your local guardian

comment sections and the Facebook groups start to go crazy and out of control. And Armchairs Lewis and this charity start to believe that every dead cat across the UK is done by the same person. Yes. Talking like Northampton one night, Edinburgh the next. Yeah, I heard he struck as far afield as Norwich. And it's like, if it is a guy, it's just a different guy. Yeah.

And then it's interesting to me because the police task force eventually closes and says it was all foxes and hit and runs. I mean, I don't want to be a stone cold skeptic slash redheaded hottie like in the X-Files, but it was foxes. It was foxes all along. It was just, it was foxes. And then that puts more fuel on the fire of this is a conspiracy, it's a cover up. More vets come out of the woodwork and say, I saw the wounds, they were done with a blade.

And everyone's going, well, a fox wouldn't leave it on the owner's doorstep and all this stuff. And me and my friend got really into it. We were trying to pitch something about this, it was all boring. But it was really interesting to me because it's in my area and it news about it and people talk about it seemed inescapable for about a year. But it's also really interesting because it came at the same time. It was at the exact same time as like the peak of the true crime boom, all the true crime podcasts and the new books. And I remember it was the same time as that big, the famous book about the golden state

killer. Everyone was freaking out about true crime. And then suddenly everyone in Croydon was convinced that like an uncatchable prolific stalker was stalking the streets, killing cats as far afield as, you know, Orkney. And it- Yes. And the St. Spriessing Crystal Palace. San Francisco, yeah. No, no, that was Croydon. That was someone Yes. And the Saintsbury's in Crystal Palace. San Francisco, yeah.

No, no, that was Croydon. That was someone mistaken. It was Croydon. Oh yeah, it turned out to be Croydon. We just thought it was San Francisco because of the ambiance. I think you're right. It follows exactly the pattern of Spring Heel Jack and the London Monster and other stories we've covered where it's not that nothing happened.

Some people, you know, some cats died very sadly and maybe some people did some terrible things. But the thing that people believe is happening, this one evil guy who's doing so much, it turns into a sort of a kind of a tulpa, a kind of created figure. Maybe there was someone that was like, did one or maybe two cats at the very, very start and left them on their neighbors doorsteps to, because people kill cats all the time. People shoot animals with BB guns and do horrible things to pets all the time. It's very cruel.

It's very sad, but I don't think that there was like, yeah. The Spring Heel Jack is such a great, like this Tulpa figure, such a great way of describing it because it's like, there's just loads of people gene each other up that there's like the most prolific serial killer of all time is operating on our streets and disrupting our unique community balance and, you know, putting a knife through the perfect equilibrium of suburbia. Something to be terrified about and to take every step. Yeah.

Well, I did notice there was kind of a flip in the whole cat thing though, because with that whole quote and calculate thing around, yeah, around 2015, 2016, and people there were really kind of on the sides of the cats. But I don't know if you remember when COVID came a knock in, one of the fingers pointed at how it was being spread was cats. Really? We were really searching for people to blame at that time, weren't we? It was cats, was it?

It was being transferred by cats. Yeah, but then some people also thought it was 5G towers. Yeah, I just found it really fascinating at the time because I had a couple of friends I talked to about it and I remember reading, going on the local news, your local Guardian comment sections and Facebook groups and reading the comments, people were like, everyone's throwing, naming other people on their road. Really? I could be remembering wrong. I could be remembering wrong here.

That could be hyperbole, but like people are like, you know, have the theories about it and I'm not sure who it was with, but like I was around another comics house at the height of the Croydon Catkiller stuff in South London. And another comic came home and we just started like, you know, grilling them about where they'd been, start accusing everyone, you know, of being a grown cat killer. That was a lot of fun for a while. Why do you smell the whiskers? What's going on there?

Yeah, like little mouse toys dangling out of the back, out of the backpack. I think, yeah, it's just really interesting to see kind of like in real time, how this stuff kind of gets. Yeah. A mass hysteria. Yeah, kind of. Yeah. Because I think that sort of the very sad sort of coder perhaps to it all is that the

amount of cat reported cat deaths in that area was a bang average for the country. So it's like, it's very sad that that many cats are having mysterious deaths, like either being run over, killed by foxes, or there are, unfortunately, some people did do horrible things. And that was normal. Yeah. But also it's like, there are a lot of other problems that like, I, I know, like I live near there where it was all happening around there at the war is

meant to have been happening. Like people go crazy in cars around there. People are like going bonkers down. Like the amount of times I've nearly been hit by a car, cause people are just like going crazy foxes are going crazy. There's loads of foxes. They're getting braver than ever. Every single day I see three or four foxes. It's far more likely to me that that's because-

Some of them have got belts now and mobile phones. Yeah. Motives, means and opportunities. Some of them have. Me and my friend who was also interested in it and fascinated by it. We remembered, we remembered it and got a renewed interest in it because that then it had also died down, but then there were, there was a new mass hysteria every week. It was interesting because that's what kind of reminded me of the 5G tower stuff, people hoarding toilet paper, conspiracy theories flying around everywhere. Like that's what, that's what kind of reminded me of it and made it kind of stick in my mind because, you know, we went back to thinking about it after five years or whatever when no one else really cares.

And now it's sort of like an interesting tidbit for people who've lived in Croydon. I all remember that sort of thing. Oh yeah, we all remember. There are some people who are sort of still on it and still think that there's, you know, 10 years later, they think there's still a secret killer out there and they're trying to find out who it is. And it's kind of like a, it's an affliction. The difficult thing about investigating the Croydon cat killer is they really like that red string.

So as you're sticking it in the board, the cats are just taking it down. I'm playing with it. Have you ever tried to bring a cat in for questioning? Difficult. Do you want to be in for questioning or do you want to be out? Make a decision. They're at the door of the interview room trying to come in. You open the door and they don't want to come in anymore.

You're just scratching. So what? Yeah. They're at the door of the witness stand and then they just turn. Come on. Yeah. You go to arrest a cat, they see the carrier and they just bolt to a different road. There are countless other examples of armchair sleuths and internet sleuths getting involved

in actual cases over the past few years that always just have tragic results. It's kind of like there are people out there trying to convince that there's a cat specific Jack the Ripper out there. Somehow if they dedicate enough time to it, the right puzzle pieces will present themselves and they'll crack a case that might not exist. And that's very interesting to me. That isn't all you've come here to tell us about is it Ed? You've got something more Streatham-y. Is it Streatham not Streatham? Streatham, yeah.

I say street ham. It's fine. You can say what you want. I like the emphasis on the ham. I'm a very easily pleased guy. You know, I like stuff. Just the word ham pleases you. Yeah. Yeah. Like old, old school, like, you know, like place name suffixes, you know, something Dale, something ham. Every time I see one in a word, I go, I say ham to myself. And I'm like, brilliant. I know this used to be a ham.

You must be thrilled looking at cheeses. Imagining some ham in there. Brilliant. This is, this is something that really happened and something that just really interests me. But I found out a few years ago, my favorite place in the world is probably stratum common. I love stratum Common. I grew up opposite Streatham Common, also down in Stranvale, probably one of my favorite places on earth and one of

the places I'm most familiar with. It really chills me out whenever I'm in a bit of a mood or I need to do something, I like to go there, have a walk around. And then I found that a couple of years ago that when Vincent van Gogh lived in, I never know if I'm pronouncing that right, but I'm going to stick with my guns here. When, when, yeah, Stram. Yeah, you've checked that James. That's good. Was living in sort of Brixton Kennington area.

He walked down to Stram Common. I think, I think because he was grieving something, I think his landlady's daughter had died, I think, and he went for a walk to clear his head and he walked up Stramcom and he drew it. I was amazed to find, I was so excited to, one of the most lauded, one of the most interesting and most well-known, one of the greatest artists of all time has, has drawn a place that you're really familiar with and you love. And I found out about it. So I think, wow, how would his eye have rendered, you know, the big Sainsbury's, the, the, you know, the retro game store, all of that. Is that still there?

It's not still there, sadly, where they've been very short-lived. It was just there during Van Gogh's lifetime and it's not there now unfortunately. Yeah, they weren't retro when Vincent was around, they were cutting heads. They just called it games. So this is the Van Gogh. So Van Gogh to Americans, maybe Van Gogh to people from wherever Van Gogh's from. Yeah, the very same. He went for a walk up Strum Common and we know he did because he

mentions it in a letter to his brother, his brother Theo, and that's how I found out about it. There's a digitized archive of all his letters online and he talks about Strum Common, he talks about why he's there, he talks about how lovely he is and he says that he's included in the letter, a sketch that he's made, but that's obviously lost, sadly. And he also includes, what I think is very interesting is he also includes some poetry by a guy whose name is, I think, Corot, who was not well known at all in his lifetime, but was only well known posthumously, much like Big Vincent. But as far as I'm aware, these digitized letters are the only repository of Koro's poetry in English online.

They're certainly the only evidence of his poetry I can find in English when I Google using my suboptimal Googling skills. And it's just really interesting to me that this really important guy whose life and work you're so familiar with is like knocking about in your area. And because of finding out that story, I found out about this other guy that he, this other guy's poetry that he loved. And this was a really kind of, the whole story is very conflicting because I'm not sure how I feel about the fact that all of his private correspond, like a legendarily depressed man's private correspondence to the only person on earth who loved him or thought he wasn't a completely dogshit art is now freely available in multiple

languages to be picked apart by anyone who wants to. I'm not really sure how I feel about that. There's also something poetic about it. Henry Tate, the founder of the Tate Galleries, lived on Stremcom and so Van Gogh was probably walking past the house of the biggest gatekeeper in the art world and not really knowing it. There's lots of stuff to do with the story that doesn't really link or make sense, but that I like. And so that's why I like it as a piece of local lore. I feel quite connected to Van Gogh because whenever I do a video on the internet with my hair tied back,

people say, from Dr. Who, you look like Von Goff when he was in Dr. Who. You look like the actor Tony Curran, which I think he's quite better looking than me, but also a bit older. So it kind of bounces out. Well, I haven't seen you without your headphones on for all. I know you've only got one ear since I last saw you. Yeah. And I, I just stumbled upon this. James, do you have that picture I sent you?

I do. I'm going to share this. But after Ed's ever so moving tale, this feels... It's really horrible. So Alex Lynch, the comedy writer and podcaster, I discovered this through a post he made. It's an advert from the Van Gogh Expo for an Easter event. And what they've done, maybe Ed, you could help me describe this to the listener. Beautiful piece of AI generated artwork from the Van Gogh Expo. I mean, how do you know that's AI, Alastair? Describe it for the listeners so they understand why I laughed at that. This is a white Barney rabbit, a fluffy white magician style Barney rabbit, Describe it for the listeners so they understand why I laughed at that.

This is a white Barney Rabbit, a fluffy white magician style Barney Rabbit wearing tweeds and a beret, holding a palette of paints and a paintbrush and standing next to a copy of Starry Night, which presumably they've painted. So we can presume this rabbit is in an asylum. The rabbit therefore is Van Gogh. And also, there are so many things that upset me about this. The easel doesn't, the legs are in the wrong place, it would fall down. But the rabbit is holding the paintbrush backwards. It's holding it upside down. And the paintbrush sort of blends into the flowers in the background. I guess the thing about Van Gogh, as you said, he was quite a troubled guy.

And I feel like they've created a thing that if he saw it. Would break his heart. I think it, I think it would upset him a lot. It would really upset him. Yeah. Quite happy not to get famous actually. Wow. If that's what it means.

Yeah. Of all the animals as well, it's one of the ones, the very famous ears. That seems insult to injury. Yeah, at least cut one of the rabbit's ears off. You're right. It's tasteless in fact. It's tasteless. It's in very poor taste that they haven't mauled that rabbit.

Absolutely. It's kind of, the world's changing in it. The world's changing in it fellas. The world's changing. Upstream comment to process. That's the other thing I liked about the story as well. Obviously like the, the first thought was like, you know, before I found out that it was not X'd and I was like, wow, that's a sketch I've got to see.

You know, I'd love to see now he painted it. But also it's very like, you know, like it's extremely touching to find out that he went for a walk up there when he was grieving because that's something I've done, you know, many, many times. He's one of these figures that you, everyone basically knows the same two or three facts about his life. And so it's really interesting to get such a, like, it's probably the, the, the first time I ever heard anything about him or knew anything about him since that sort of Dr. Who or primary school. So, you know, it's really, it was really sweet. And

it made me be more interested in his work and since find out loads more stuff about him, you know, find out more than cut ear off sunflowers. That song as well. Yeah. And Dr. Who. Which song? Just Story Story Night ear off, sunflowers. That song as well. Yeah. And Doctor Who. Which song? Just Story Story Night. Oh, right. Right.

Imagine if I'd have said like the Venger boys. Actually the Venger bus was one of the buses that he caught. Well, I do have a bit of lore from Streatham Common from the book London Law. This is, this is what I'm really excited about. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm. I'm obviously very keen to share my favorite stories about Stratum Common with you guys, but I'm even more excited to find out things that I don't yet know about my beloved Stratum. Well, I've looked up the dates. Am I right in thinking this happened around 1875 that Fungoff was living in the area?

Yes, I think so. Yeah. So I don't know, I don't know if Henry Tate would have even lived around there yet, but I might have been making it up, but it's nice to think about. Well, maybe it's not, I don't know. Well, first of all, actually, I've got something from The Streets of London by Thomas Burke, which is a book I found the other day, which is, it's, you know, when you find them in a second hand shop and it's like got a date on it, that it was given to someone in 1946.

Wow. Lovely. Harking back to the, the mass hysteria, as we were talking about earlier, there's an illustration from 1874 of the cab fiend of London, who, if he wasn't a real, some sort of mass hysteria, it's just a lovely image. So could you describe that for us, James? What's happening now? There's a guy on the top of the cabs striking out at people?

He seems to be roaring down London streets, striking out at passersby. I don't know if he's... That is a bit like what Ed described happening now with the drivers in the area. That's what I meant by the driver. When I say that people are like screaming down these streets, I mean, I don't mean people are like going over the speed limit or running red lights. I mean, a horse and trap driver is whipping me from the top of the gap. Slashing out.

It's the human condition really, isn't it? To just not to be screaming in speed terms, but just to be literally screaming as you drive around. Have you guys noticed that ever since COVID, cab drivers are just whipping you more on? It does feel that way. Cab drivers are just screaming and driving by and whipping you. Mentions the fact that basically children's street games really took off around this time because they brought in the Education Act, compulsory education, which meant that lots of kids were no longer being forced to work in mills, et cetera.

Oh, I always thought it was going to be like that they had the knowledge that you need to be able to play hopscotch and stuff. Because if you can't count, what time is it in, what time is it Mr. Wolf? I don't know, I don't know how to tell the time. So the kids had to stop working in the mills and they went down to the schools. They went to schools and they had some free time. I was wondering why bread was getting so expensive. Well, that's broadly a good thing.

Lots of kids, yes, exactly. Lots of kids street games started happening and I've, yes, I've got a list of names for kids street games. Yes. Who's that stick? Who's that stick? From the mid to late 1800s. We've got Egg Cap, Jump the Naka.

Jump the Naka. Egg Cap? Statues. Yeah. Egg Cap, Jump the Naka statues. Yeah. Egg cap, jump the Naka statues. Several men come to work. Several men come to work. Several men come to work. Golden puddings.

That's a term. The kids have not worked out how to name any of these games. That's a terrible name. Kids. One of my friends came around and said, Hey, do you want to come out and play several men come to work? Go away. That's not, that's not really a game so much as a caption for a dual photograph. I want to play Hoop and Stick opening up, opening up your like you see like a PlayStation game size Christmas present and you're like, Oh, finally Hoop

and Stick and you open it up and it's several men come to work. It'll be like when you play Settlers of Catan for the first time and one person's really into it and they're like, okay, so you're all the several men and you get nine different work cards. Yeah. Being a forever DM in D and D. Right. I played as one of the several men I've only ever played as the work.

And then we got golden puddings, Bride as Web, Here We Come From Bosony Bay, Foot It, Gully, and High Spy High. High Spy High. High Spy High. They really picked up towards the end in terms of quality. We started laying into them too soon. Do you want to play the set? Egg Cap.

Do you want to play several when they come to work or golden puddings? Golden puddings sounds actually much better. Do you want to play the set? Egg cap. Do you want to play several? They come to work or golden. You've got to play your several men come to work before you get to play your golden pudding high spy high. Sounds fun. That sounds like a, like a, like a, like a, like a cool new board game from the board game boom. Yeah. It sounds like a prequel to I Spy where they're at school.

The spies are at school and they're high spy with my little high, something beginning with several men coming to work. That is such a weird name for a game. You'll never guess what happens if you Google several men come to work. You don't find the rules to an obscure late 18th century game. The rules to an obscure late 18th century game. But I've got a tale of the Norwood Romanese from Anna Lee Wood. So they were famed far and wide for at least 200 years. And this comes from London Law by Steve Roud, a friend of the show.

And the story is from Thomas Frost's Reminiscences of a Country Journalist in 1886. So we're banging the right ballpark here. Those guys did not know how to name a book a snappy title. Every time you hear a book from the 1800s, it's like the, you know, like, you know, you hear about like the great expectations had a subtitle that's like a paragraph long and you're like, you don't need that. You don't need that. Great expectations, that's a banger.

You'll never guess what the name of the book was that had the list of the kids' street games in it. Go on. What was that? London Street Games. Brilliant. Oh, straight. That's what it says on the table. None of the names were taken. I think what a lot of people don't realize, Ed, is that your stolen milk sketch was actually called Stolen Milk or a treatise on dishonesty between two friends. Wherein one friend finds himself betrayed by others. This is why we need alt text, people. That's what it's for. Get the subtitles in there.

The story was told by a Dr Gardiner, a Croydon man, and the action takes place on the Bromley side of the border in Annali and Penj woods. I see. Now, is this because there is a place near here called Gypsy Hill? Yes, I think that's probably why. And of course, unfortunately, that word is regarded as a slur in many parts of the world, but it is also just a place in this area, right?

This is going to be our lowest performing YouTube video since Scratching Fanny of Cochlein. Yes, that was a difficult time. Yeah, that's how I start. I don't live too far away from that, from all that now. I live in a different part of South London now. Yeah, so I'm very familiar with all these areas that you're naming. So yeah, Dr. Gardiner, who lived in a white house facing Stratham Common. Stratham Common?

I don't even say that. Stratham Common. I don't know why we try and say it like Van Gogh. Stratham Common. Stratham Common? I don't even say that. I don't know why we try and say it like Van Gogh. One evening he was called out with some urgency by a wiry looking Romany guy who begged him to come see his wife who was giving birth in their camp in Annalee Wood. So the doctor hesitated for a moment. He's a little bit nervous. The night's going to be dark. Annalee Wood was a place of evil repute. Where the Briars and Brambles grew, the thickest amongst the Hazels,

there was a hollow which bore the ominous name of Thieves Den. But you know what? He's a doctor. He's going to do his job. He put his hat on, he goes out into the night, and they reach a part of the wood where the lane kind of intersects. And there's a bit of a crossroads and the Romany guys leading him on down this path and they descended into the valley through which now the

railway runs and then the guy paused waiting with evident impatience and the doctor caught up with him. Give me a handkerchief. You must not know the way to our tents. And so he ties the handkerchief around the doctor's eyes so he can't even see where he's going. There are reasons for it. It'll only be a few minutes. And he's brought through the undergrowth, holding onto the tail of the guy's jacket. And the doctor finally finds himself in a candle lit tent where the man's wife lay, giving birth and in a lot of problem. And an hour later, the baby's son was born

and all were healthy. The doctor was blindfolded again, taken back to the road. And the Romani guy pulls out some money to give to the doctor and he says, no, no, no, I'm a, you know, this, this fine, you know, I'm doing my job here kind of thing. I don't need money for this. Give it to your wife. And the guy's like, all right, that's fair play. You didn't't need money for this. Give it to your wife." And the guy's like, all right, that's fair play. You didn't take any money for that. So I hope I may find an opportunity of paying the debt in another way. If you ever come into contact with any of our people in an unpleasant kind of way, you must say you're a friend of mine or ask if Ned Righteous is in the camp and you'll find the mention of that name very much to your

advantage. And so far so folktale-y. And yeah, so a year passes and Dr Gardner was riding home from visiting a patient at Beckenham and then his horse is bridally seized by two ruffians who are, they're trying to rob him, they're trying to demand his money. But he remembered this code word that he could utter and he said, you'll not rob a friend of're trying to demand his money. But he remembered this code word that he could utter. And he said, you're not rob a friend of Ned Righteous, he observed. The friends of Ned Righteous are our friends, said one of the robbers. And in an altered tone, but without loosening the hold on the bridle says, but how are we to know that you're a friend of his?

And the doctor's right, well, if the guy I mentioned is anywhere near, he will answer for me. And then one of the robbers was like, all right, I'll bring you to him. And they take him off and they lead him into the woods. They lead him down a narrow path that meanders through Pengewood and they make a strange cry like the hooting of an owl. And it was answered nearby. And then a man appears from the undergrowth.

That's amazing. Just for the listeners awareness, I'm making that noise just magically with my hands. We haven't added that. Isn't a real owl that we brought in for the, for the, for the listeners, Alice is being attacked by a bunch of hours now. Get away. You're a house. I've got my, my owl is just off camera and he's going crazy now.

So thanks for that. I've got my owl is just off camera and he's going crazy now. So thanks for that. Thanks. Owl crying now. Thanks. And it's, and it's Ned Righteous and he's, he recognizes the dog. And so just to be clear, is Ned Righteous, the guy he met before that was, that was the name of the man.

Ned Righteous is the, yes, that was the name of the man. And he recognizes, says Dr. Gardner. And the, and the one of the robbers like Dr. Gardner and the foot pads are like, Dr. did he say Dr. Gardner? Well if we'd have known it was you, sir, you'd only have told us your name. That would have been enough. You saved Righteous's child and perhaps his wife, taking no gold for it. Your name is remembered for that in all the tents of Romany. So yeah. That's the tale of the doctor that did some doctoring one time.

It's a nice, slightly kind of racist, but nice story. It's got an edge to it, hasn't it? Yeah. But it's quite touching. And it's also the idea that there's a special code you can say to get out of a mugging is quite pleasing. You can imagine that appealing to a certain sort of bourgeois mindset, like me, for instance, because that appealed to me. I think we're all going to train. Yeah. I'm like the special member of the bourgeoisie. They won't rob me because I'm, I'm like nice and special. They all love to think of themselves. Like actually all the, all the, all the, like the well-to-do doctors in

difference of urban parts of London reading that tale will be like, yeah, that would probably be me. Yeah, that's me. I'd probably be the one that's cool with it. You know what I mean? Yeah, I'm kind of the cool one. So Alistair, are you ready to score us? Yes.

That was a fine, fine tale of Streatham. Hmm. Very, very Streathamy. It was. I'd say go first of all, I think we need to get out supernatural out of the way because yeah, tweenie and me pretty much nothing. I think there's nothing supernatural about that. Well, then my,

Yeah. So go on, put it, put it to him and you never know. You never know. What's your first category? You never know. You never know. I might be generous. I might be inclined to go high.

My first category is supernatural because I think that of all the stories today that the only one that's got anything vaguely supernatural about it is the Corridan cat killer because he's, because the Corridan cat killer has got to have gone everywhere across the UK in a single night. And as you said, it's kind of a tolpa. So I believe that the, it can only be a five because it's the only element of supernaturalism involved in any of today's stories. Appreciate you speaking so eloquently on the matter coming before the panel at

this time, but it is obviously not a five. It's a, it's a one out of five. See with hindsight, we should have said super catcher. Super catcher. Yes, but it's too late to introduce a pun retrospectively. Okay. Let that be struck from the record. Yeah.

That part should, we should have found out about that during discovery. Really? I'd say, I'd say it should really be a five because it's not on the today. You can't, it's only within the episode, within today's episode. So that's five is the top and within today's episode, that's like, that is as supernatural. Yeah. But the thing is that I've, I've been on, unlike you, I've been on the other

episodes of this podcast and we've had like vampires and, and ghosts and things that really happened. It's just not as supernatural as that. Okay. All right. Giants, we've had guys with faces in their tummies. Like Krang. Like Krang.

We've had Krangs. You've had Krang on this podcast. Krang on the podcast. Yeah. We've had supernatural. We'd say take shredder and he would say it. You guys are the bebop on rock steady or local legends. I say a lot of people are saying that.

So it's a one out of five. Um, and I don't know if anything, I could go lower than that because of the bebop rock steady thing, but we shouldn't push it any further. Okay. Well, this one's good. I go with that. Go with the naming. What's your second category? Naming. further. One is the lowest. OK, this one's good. I go with that. Go with the naming. What's your second category?

Naming. Wow. OK. All right. So just give me a few of those games again, James. Egg cap, jump the knack of statues, several men come to work, golden puddings, spider's web. Here we come from Botany Bay, wall flowers, foot it, gully and high spy high.

James, if it were only several men come to work, it would be five. That was the only one I needed to hear. Several men come to work. It's got a ring to it. There's been so many amazing names in this episode. I can't believe you had an episode with more good names than several men come to work. Ned Righteous. Ned Righteous is a great name.

Yeah. Even the Croydon Catkiller, the alliteration. It's got its, yeah. Vincent, we've got big names. We've got big names up. We've got celebrity names in this episode. VVG. VVG. Very, very goth.

Yeah, exactly. VVG's up there. We've got this is brilliant. We've got brilliant names in this episode. It's kind of unbelievable. Yeah, you're right. Actually massive, massive guest star cameo from Vincent van Gogh there. I didn't even know he'd been to South London. Yeah. So the Easter crab, all of them, of course, of course, close friend of Vincent van Gogh, the Easter crab, the Easter crab. A friend of the show, the Easter crab.

Fabby Easter. Five out of five. Just try taking his eggs. You try taking his crab eggs. We didn't do an Easter episode this year, so maybe this is our Easter episode. We missed Easter. I didn't know it was Easter because I don't have kids and I'm self-employed, so nobody tells me when it's a bank holiday until it's too late. So you're still outside the post office. Okay, Ed, third cut. This was one you came up with. Thinly Veiled Victorian Moralism. I was thinking this because

of the story of the good doctor that didn't accept any payment and got his greater reward in the grand scheme of things. Which was not being mugged. But moreover, everyone really kind of thinking you were cool, which I think is the real reward rather than being mugged. It's just being cool. That kind of, that like, yeah, that again, that Victorian race, the thinly veiled Victorian racism could also be in there as well.

Yeah, I'm not sure they veiled it that thinly, but yeah. Yeah, I did a lot of cutting on the fly from the original version. Yeah. It's pretty, it's kind of a lesson, but it's also kind of cool that by doing the right thing, you get given the Konami cheat code for crime. That's kind of fun. And everybody thinks you're really cool and you kind of become a legend among a group of people who are much cooler than doctors and gardeners put together. Should we say that we don't know, we cannot say for the veracity of that cheat code, we don't know if it still works in the world.

Yeah, please don't try that. Yeah. If you've fallen victim to a scam email, simply replying back with the words, Ned righteous will not get you back, not get your money back. I'm afraid I'm sorry. I actually, if, if someone tried to, if I was an email scammer and someone replied to what, to one of my scams with, I know Ned righteous, I would be a bit, I'd be on the back foot. So I think, I think it's pretty high.

I don't think that it was very thinly veiled, but I don't think Van Gogh, I don't know if we learn a lesson from the Van Gogh story, unless you can now, Ed, present a Victorian moral for the tale of Van Gogh's walk in stratum common. What is the moral of that story that is edifying for me? That you should paint pictures so that you can be in Dr. Who one day. Yeah. He, it's what he would have wanted really, isn't it? To be in Dr.

Gardner story. He refused payment for his pictures in his lifetime, but he got the great reward of being a doctor. And if you say the name doctor who to a very nerdy mugger, you're going to be in for quite a chat. And if you can pronounce it as Dr. Who they will, you will absolutely distract those held at gunpoint by someone wearing a t-shirt

that says let the wookie win go personal friend of dr who says his name's dr who so i guess people must get mugged at comic con it must happen it's a large venue someone must be mugged would you mug a stormtrooper well yeah they're not going to hit me, are they? They are famously bad shots. Or just get set up on by a bunch of Jawas. Yeah, I would not. Yeah. I wouldn't like to try and, you know, try to rob someone and just get like, like beat into a pulp with plastic lightsabers.

Be arguably more painful than being killed with actual lightsabers, because that would at least be quick. You've convinced me that it's a four out of five, I think, for moralism. You've taught me a lesson. Dr. Gardner has taught me a lesson. Okay, go for the final category. Hit him with the big guns. What's the final category?

An undeniable five. Sad artists in my area. Yeah, I assume now that's all you get popping up on the sides of your browser. Yeah, it is. Yes. Yeah. Like my father's listening to me talking about that golf is telling me that. And I think all of us, I mean, I think to say that stand up comedians and

podcasters are artists is certainly bold, but we are definitely sad artists in our area having looked upon the AI image of Bunny Van Gogh. Yeah. Yeah. Backwards brush, Bunny Van, Van, I'm going to say that again. Backwards bunny brush. I'm not going to say it. I'm not going to say it.

Backwards brush, Bunny Van Gogh. I've got a bit of backwards brush, Bunny. I have to go see Dr. Gardner. Remember to mention my name. My brush is backwards. I have to go see Dr. Gardner.

Well, thank you very much Ed. That was absolutely wonderful. What would you like to plug? Where can people find your stuff? If you go, go onto my Instagram and enjoy all that stuff. And I'm also on tour doing standup in likely, what's likely to be your local area. Ooh, a sad comedian in your area. I'll be a sad artist in your local area.

So if you go on my Instagram, you'll be able to find out where I'm playing and get tickets for that. Go along and shout crabs. Go along, shout crabs. That would, that will really, I think that would really ruin the vibe. That was a joke. You, you honestly buy a ticket, you shout what you like. I'd love it. I'd love if I could, if I could turn my live shows into like, you know, when people go and watch Rocky Horror and they do loads of stuff with this

bird. If they'd love for it to be like a crab joke at my, my show, a recurring crab joke. Well, they can find that on the internet, right? I'm going to do a crab joke at my, my show, Recurring Crab Joke. Well, they can find that on the internet, right? Yes. I've come and find, uh, find tickets to my tour on my Instagram. Thanks for having me, James and ABK. Thanks for coming on, Ed. The night trolley, I like that. It took me the whole listen back of the episode to get it, because I'm very slow.

Do the listeners think that we actually listened to the whole episode in between recording the end and the end? I used to, I used to when I used to listen to podcasts and then I started making them and realized, no, there's not enough time, not enough time in the day. We can't remember a single thing that happened in the episode at this point. No. Just guessing.

Thank you very much to Sunil Patel or whoever it was this time. I've got another record scratch to pop in here. I've got an apology. Again, we do have a real record scratch soundtrack that I know I have sent you, but carry on. And I use it every time, right? Do you? Shh, shh, don't tell him listeners.

I last episode, we were talking about 1825 and the things that happened in that year. Indeed. The big thing I forgot about, which ties into the wider lawman universe. I'll see you. It was only the panic of 1825. The panic of 1825. Which was a major economic crisis sparked off in part by your

enemy and mine, Gregor McGregor. No, Gregor McGregor, what? When we... I'm incoherent with rage. His whole, you know, his whole scam about the made up country and stuff. Indeed. That sparked off an economic crisis. It was one of the first economic crisis, crisis is that was kind of caused by something that was made up.

Imagine such a thing. Surely that will never happen again. We can only imagine what an impact it had on the Poyerian economy. Big time. It never recovered. Unscratched then. Yeah, that was a lovely little factet. Thanks, James. No probes.

Sorry, I forgot to do it last week. Error. But thank you everyone for listening. Thank you for listening. Thank you, Joe you for listening. Thank you Joe for editing and please if you would like to support our endeavors, join us on patreon.com forward slash lawmen pod where you will not only gain access to the law folk discord, which is a haven for like-minded law folk, but you'll also get bonus episodes all sorts and it will be really nice and helpful.

Yeah, we would like it. If you can't or don't wish to do that, tell a friend. Anyway, thanks very much everyone. Join us next time. We've actually already recorded it so I could tell you what it is. It's, oh God, I've actually, I've genuinely actually forgotten. That's real intrigue. You've really raised the stakes there and you're leaving people dangling. Oh yeah. No, come on. That's real intrigue. You've really raised the stakes there and you're leaving people dangling.

Oh yeah. No, come on. It's the Roman robot of Sirencester. No, okay. That is an irresistible time. Can I just say then, to potentially add this onto the end of the edit, Kittness Stand. Let's see if we can make some work out. At the very least, it will make it clear why we started talking about something else. A good thing about a pun like that, James, is you can really drop that anywhere into the edit. It doesn't matter. That will round the bit off nicely.

After the closing credit, after the closing scene too, right? Yeah. At the end of another episode. We might end every episode with that from now on. Yeah. At the end of another episode. We might end every episode with that from now on. How about Agatha Kitsch's Kittness for the Prosecution? Prosecution? Prosecution.

Doesn't really work. Kittness for the Prosecution. I don't know. Kittness for the Prosecution. Urquipuro? Oh, that's good. Lovely. the persecution. I don't know. Cute.

Cute. Perro. Cause some cats are cute. Cause some cats can be very cute.