Loremen Podcast - Loremen S6Ep17 - Spring Heeled Jack with Edy Hurst

Episode Date: May 22, 2025

Forget everything you thought you knew about Spring-Heeled Jack! Because this marauding menace not only affrighted the women of London, but also the Uncles of Warrington! Edy Hurst joins the LoreBoys to blow that case wide open, with tales of that famous monster springing* up in the most unlikely of places**! * pun ** Warrington See Edy's tour here See the Loremen LIVE in Oxford on the 10th July 2025 (2025) This episode was edited by ⁠⁠⁠Joseph Burrows - Audio Editor⁠⁠⁠ Join the LoreFolk at ⁠⁠⁠patreon.com/loremenpod⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠ko-fi.com/loremen⁠⁠⁠ Check the sweet, sweet merch here... ⁠⁠⁠https://www.teepublic.com/stores/loremen-podcast?ref_id=24631⁠⁠⁠ @loremenpod ⁠⁠⁠youtube.com/loremenpodcast⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠www.instagram.com/loremenpod⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠www.facebook.com/loremenpod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Welcome to Lawmen, a podcast about local legends and obscure curiosities from days of yore with me, Alistair Beckett King and me, James Shake Shaft and James. We're traveling to the northwest of England today. Yeah. In the company of a very fine gentleman by the name of Eddie Hurst. Oh yes. What a lovely person. Standup comedian, podcaster.

Stand-up guy. Stand-up guy. Stand-up chap. And Eddie is taking us to his hometown to meet Spring-Heeled Jack, the terror of Warrington. Maybe he's more famous for his London work. James Shake Shaft, hello there. Alistair Beckett King, hello back at you. James, I've called you to this windswept moor for a reason. Oh, finally, because I've been coming out to windswept Moors on wild goose chases, which didn't

involve geese. Yeah. I wasn't there the other times. I was calling you out and then sniggering away at my house without me. I am here this time because I have brought you a third witch to add to our dynamic, James. Yes. When shall we three witches meet for the first time? I was trying to do it.

Yeah, I was trying to do a Macbeth thing and I didn't plan it or think it through, but I'm glad you got where I was going with that. I come, Graham Alkin. Is that actually a line from Macbeth? That's an exit line for one of the witches from Macbeth. Adorama drama Macbeth dot com. I forgot that you went to drama school. Oh, big time.

You went to drama school big time. Big time show time. Okay. All right. Well, I'm glad that you got all of my brilliant literary references because we have a guest law person on this episode. It is Eddie Hurst. Hello, Eddie. Oy-oy!

That's one of the more famous witch lines. It's a great honour to be here. And oy-oy to you and yours. To Kith and Kyn. For all, and an oy-oy also with you. The reason for the witchy shenanigans in that brilliantly acted preamble, well done James, is that you are on tour at the moment with Eddie Hirst's wonderful discovery of witches in the county of himself, which has got to be in the running for best show title ever. Well, thank you very much. It's the shortest title I've done at late, so that's something at least. But yeah, yeah. Thanks for having me. Big fan of the podcast and it's an honour to be a deputy law person. I will take that and I'll hold it tight to my chest. Yes.

In sincerity and also in secrecy to defend from people who will try and shoot me as the deputy. As I understand it, the main risk. You're wearing it in your sort of breast pocket there and in the hope that that deputyhood is going to absorb a bullet. Yeah, I'm kind of hoping it's like a sort of small Kevlar, a focused Kevlar area. Those sort of cut plastic stickers will actually repel bullets. Okay. Okay. Just to be clear, people who have the lawmen stickers, they are not actually bulletproof. So please do not. Okay. I need to revise this later, but.

We're neither doctors nor quartermasters. So please do not take any of that advice. Medicine or guns. I like the length of your title. You've gone full PAMF style, like old school PAMF. Well, obviously it comes up a lot in the podcast, of course, but as Ed Knight was saying a few episodes back, I love when there's a little title and it's like, oh, that's interesting. Actually what I'd like is a real synopsis that's also part of the title. If you can please summarise that for me. Because I, sometimes I think it's quite nice to have, like now we have content warnings, but I think then we have plot warnings as well, which is just great. We're not necessarily a warning, more just like,

just a pop. Not even a summary. It's just, here's the book and then here's the book again. I know I was talking about Macbeth, but probably my favourite Shakespeare would be The Tragedy of Hamlet's Comma, Prince of Denmark. So know I was talking about Macbeth, but probably my favorite Shakespeare would be the tragedy of Hamlet's comma Prince of Denmark. So if you don't know who he is, you already have been told by the full title. A lot of Hamlets back then though. A lot of Hamlets to get confused with. It was like David's when I was in school. You couldn't rule for David's.

Hamlet? Aaron's boy? Big Hamlet. He was a lecturer at Big Time, right? Did he run the Showtime? Big Time Drama School, the drama school run by gangsters that James went to. Big Time Showtime. It was a lot of Mare seeing, not a lot of Mare showing.

Big Time Showtime Drama School, okay. And you could do an optional course in resseldesel. Yeah. You, it's going to, you're going to come away with Moxie, which is one of the main things you need in this business, James. Yeah. A B A and Moxie. Eddie, we have not had you on as a deputy law person before, have we?

No, no. First time you have been, of course, on my podcast during the lockdown years, which was Eddie Hirst's podcast version of War of the Worlds. That was a lot of fun. That was so much fun, that. But thank you very much for joining us today, Eddie. I mean, I'm rubbing my palms together in excitement. Oh boy, do I have a story today.

So I'm very excited with this. Now I wanted to bring something from my hometown, which is of course Warrington. I don't know if either of you have any experience with Warrington previously? Of course I died in a sports center there. I should add to the listener context, I'm a comedian, so I mean that figuratively. Not a ghost. I didn't, I'm a comedian, not a ghost. He was a big squash guy in the 80s.

I was a guy in one of those cosy crime dramas, played a game of squash with a fellow business guy and then I've been poisoned with a racket. The little red dot had poison in it on it. And I keeled over. No, I'm really, really bad at squash. Startlingly bad. I played an entire game without hitting the ball once. Everyone's bad at squash.

Yeah, but I've never successfully hit the ball. Apart from name redacted, the boy at my school who was good at squash. And you just go into the squash court and he just smash it like of one point and however many points it got to. You just had to wait for him to get to that. And then someone else would go in. Yeah. Bad squash times.

I assume it was called David because everybody was in those days. Yeah. David squashman. David squashman Hamlet. So yes, Warrington, I'm sure people know you're sort of culturally and geographically somewhere between Liverpool and Manchester. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of down the middle. Manke, Lil' Biz, Scousy between Liverpool and Manchester. Yeah, yeah. Kind of down the middle.

There comes an age. Manke, Lil' Biz, Scousey. That's right. Yeah, yeah. You get to about 11, 12, 13 and it's a moment in most of the St. Tony's life where you have to say, when someone says, where are you from? You say Liverpool or Warrington. And they go, oh, I'm also from Bagley around there.

And then you go, no, actually I'm from Warrington. And they'll go, oh no, I'm from St. Helens. And both of you will share that look of knowing what is our identity? Who are we? Who are we beyond the large furniture shops? Warrington, of course, is in the Northwest. It's kind of this in between hinterland. And I wanted to have a look and see what great folklore is there that I can bring to represent

to you guys. And so I have this particular one. Now I do need to, I need to really be clear in the context at which I bring represent to you guys. And so I have this particular one. Now I do need to, I need to, I need to really be clear in the context at which I bring this to you. So I have of course, the story of Spring-Heeled Jack. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Alistair, I think Eddie's become confused. Warrington's own Spring-Heeled Jack.

Okay. Now I, all right. We appreciate the... One of the Springs, the Warrington Wire. We appreciate the sound effects there, Eddie. Spring-Heeled Jack is certainly a folkloric figure that we've mentioned on the pod without really giving him full attention, but I don't associate him so strongly with Warrington. No, he's a London based Phantom, right?

He moved down south because that's where the work is. If you want to... That's where the crime is. Sorry, he's with the criminal work. I think there might be some crime in Warrington. Well, look, I understand that maybe around the 1830s to most of the Victorian period, Spring Heel Jack was apparently popular in London. And maybe there was another Jack that also committed heinous crimes that

might've made him less popular when it came to the late 1800s. It's not for me to say. Poor Jack. Poor Jacks in general. Yeah, bad time to be a Jack who is not a Ripper or of Spring Teal was what they said. I think that was an 1890s phrase. Well, that was the, that was the subtitle for the Union Jack. Union Jack or whatever the so on.

So I have this story, the legend of Spring Hill Jack Warrington, which of course, so for, for focal fans and as you may know, as people who've done Spring Hill Jack adjacent things, the first reported case in that there London was 1837. However, I'd like you to jump into my folk time machine as we go all the way to the summer of 1927. I don't know if you can do this James, but if you put like some sort of like wow, wow, pedal stuff in for wow. The listener can't see James's face.

I can. I know he's not going to do that. I'm not going to, I can Can't see James's face. I can. I know he's not going to do that. I'm not going to, I can see that he's not going to do that. Unless I can make the noise with my own mouth. 1927, sorry. 1927. Yep. Yep.

90 years forwards. Yeah. We've gone into the time machine to the future. We've gone forward to the past. I don't believe we have James. We haven't. We've done in the time machine to the future. We've gone forward to the past. I don't believe we have James. No, we haven't. We've done, we've done literally the opposite. We've gone to the back to the less past. Okay.

That's what I'd say is less past. That yes, that's yeah. Less past, present, future. Yeah. What is the time machine made out of though? Just so I can paint a picture in my mind. It's made of some plywood is in there. A lot of it, but you'd think that's not very strong, but what I've done is I've

put two real thick bits of cardboard around that and I've duct taped that up. Nice. So are you telling me you built a time machine out of a design and tech project? I would have wanted a folk time machine to be more sort of withies and papi mache and maybe some sort of tendrils. Or a tree with eggs on it. Oh, that would be good actually. Well, look, we can put a tree in here.

If we get some eggs at some point. I've got a pocket full of eggs. The cardboard might be useful to grow the tree. I don't know. That's an option for us. It is steam powered because I've got a kettle in there. So it's just if we get thirsty on the way, I can do that. But so we journey into our folk time machine to 1927. Whoa, man!

This is a swinging 20. The swinging 27s. You hep cats don't know what the jam is, but I do. Listen Daddy-o, pop down that saucer of champagne. You know that's based on a lady's boob. A fun thing I like to say about any champagne glass, especially the long ones. It really confuses people. You know that's Marie Antoinette's boom.

And we find ourselves with the residents of Orford Lane, which is of course a road in Warrington and they're terrorised by a tall ghostly figure. Now what he does is he scares you, he jumps over a tall wall and disappears. And this has happened upwards of three times over this period. I mean there's at least three, at least three. And so we have this, we have him also on Haydock Street, he's there too. So we've got Orford Road, got Haydock Street. And last but not least, by the Central Station of Warrington. We all remember the Central Station of Warrington, near and dear to our hearts.

It's not as good as Banki, doesn't have the fast trains going through it, but nevertheless, it's a pleasant, it's a place. Can we edit that bit? It's yet a central station. Is it got a Cornish Pastico and an AMT? It's not that grand. It's more of a station of the people. Is it for chinos? I think it has a coffee cart, maybe. It has or like a, like a sort of newsagents that might have once been a Smiths and they went, it's not working here guys. And they've closed it down. A humble station.

Has it got an empty selector? I would put money on it having an empty selector. And of course, so, and then we have a few more sightings and then he leapt over, this is important, he leapt over the central station in his final alleged, which is a big like, how many tracks we talking? Central stations got to be at least three, I think from a look, it's at least a double decker bus, at least a double decker bus. In height?

In, let down, like a sleeping double decker bus. No, no, no, like a tall double decker, You've got double decker bus. If it's driving on the road, he's cleared that. And it, but it's the width of a station. So that's like three double decker buses lined up presumably. Now the listener might be misled by the name spring heel Jack. I think that's figurative, right? In his London incarnation and now in his Warrington incarnation, he doesn't literally have heat springs on his heels. It's that he's sort of got the jumping ability of a giant

cricket or grasshopper. Right? Well, here's why. How do we know? Because we always see him at the darker night as is his want. We know he's a dark figure. People say he has horns on his head. People say he wears cloaks. One of the sightings in Warrington, he was wearing a bright white dress. So he mixes it up, you know? He does. He's got white. The classic image, the sort of the classic Batman looking image of him. He's got big white trousers on, hasn't he? Yes, there's a famous Penny Dreadful and he's swooping in with a rib cage exposed on his shirt,

or a rib cage painted on his shirt or a rib cage painted on his shirt and a pair of white trousers and slightly, slightly Nazi looking boots. But yes, absolutely a proto Batman cape. But you can see there's a cracking heel on that boot, which I think you could easily fit a spring in should he wish. Yes. Yeah. Maybe he's modded the boots.

Because this is, I'll be honest, when I saw the image you were talking about Alistair, I was like, who's this Spring-Heeled Jack fella? I was boots in. I couldn't not learn about this man. Because I like to think that he does have heels. I think they're of his own design. People talk about him being a demon and having demonic powers and blue flames, but in Warrington, there's no reports

of the blue flames as there are in the 1837 sign in London. So I think we don't, maybe he just has a snap, maybe it's like Inspector Gadget. Was, is one of the reasons he's called Spring Hill Jack is because when he leapt off you, you would hear a boyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoyoy Perhaps? Wow. I think that's an option. I think we can have this. Is it maybe, is he like the Batman in that he's an idea and you get the Spring-Hilled Jack? You deserve a Fiorira kind of thing. So he turns up as and when needed or as and when deserved rather than needed. Because this is the other thing about the Warrington one that I find quite interesting. I feel like he's made, so the, I don't know how... How much

do you guys know already about the London-based Springfield Jack? I think we talked about him when we talked about the London monster because he seemed like a later version of the London monster and like you say, an earlier version of the real murderer, Jack the Ripper. Yeah. So, to look at the London original when Spring-Heeled Jack Fever hit the Capitol, he's a bad lad. He's doing a lot of bad stuff and he's doing particularly heinous things to women in a way that does make you think was it a euphemism because it probably was hard for people to say things like these atrocious things that happened to them. Whereas if you say Spring-Heeled Jack, there's a jumping bloke.

There's something about this demon with blue fire that maybe the press can talk about and discuss. I think it's just a demon with blue fire, personally, but some people are saying that that's an option too. I couldn't possibly comment. It's very responsible of you to say that and then immediately go back to the fun jumping guy for the purposes of this podcast. Thank you. That's a really good point. Yep. I think nobody could possibly criticize us in any way. So there's the London one is like the main stories are these poor women who have Spring Hill Jack attack them. But then when you go to Warrington, it's, he's just making a bit

of a noise in an alleyway. Somebody sticks their head out, goes, what are you doing? They jumps over a fence. Yeah. You hear a bo, he goes over central station. Wow. I mean, a lot of time has passed. So maybe he's lost his head. I mean, maybe we're dealing with Spring Hill Jack Jr. Oh, like a Santa Claus or like the film film The Santa Claus, yes. Tim Allen. He's Tim Allen. Somebody's caught him. Did he run over the original Spring Hill Jack? But if it was Tim Allen he would go I think this is, I'm just going to pitch it, I think this hangs together better than the Santa Claus because in the Santa Claus he had to put the boots on as well. But then also he puts the clothes on with Spring Heel Jack. It's like, oh, you scare him.

He jumps straight out of his shoes, I imagine. And then you get the Spring Heel boots. And then you become the new Spring Heel Jack for the new generation. You are the next Spring Heel Jack. Ooh, maybe. That could be how it works. That could easily be how it works. We don't know how that is.

The mantle has been passed. The boots. But each time, you know, it's like a new pope each time they take stuff in a different direction. That was very topical when we recorded this, by the way. Yes. Because there was a pope. Pope, conclave fever will have passed. Long since passed. In a couple of weeks, maybe, when this comes out.

We were all nuts about the concours when we were recording this. Leo came out, we're very excited. Sorry for spoilers. No, just to reassure you, this podcast is not going to come out before the concours is over. That time machine, Eddie, it's just, it's a prop for a podcast. I know we are recording this in the 1920s, but we're going to release it probably about 105 years later. Okay. That's very good. So that is, I mean, that is essentially the long and short of Spring Hill Jack and Warrington, which is very slim. However, you might be thinking, oh, is it only 1927? Well, hot off the press, actually, I'm quite excited to share this

as well that I found on a Reddit forum. so you know that it's been peer reviewed. Yes. Check all of that. Yes. I don't think you can lie on the internet, Eddie. So. So this is a story told to somebody by not one uncle, two uncles. The double uncle.

Double uncle. Double uncle. Uncle Squared. That's what we've got. No one of them here. They always told me and they swear to this day it's true. It's in the mid 90s in the Merseyside area and the uncle was at home in the bedroom and heard some rustling in the entry brackets alleyway close brackets. Yeah, just to make sure you can't try and do any kind of double entendre there. Actually

alleyway you can still do it with that. But still, they made an effort. They had a go for it. And it was evening and he heard noise and he thought someone was messing around with the bins. The classic Northwest dilemma. Who's that? They better not be messing with my bins. Mid-90s, is that pre-Wheely bin era? Or are we still metal? It's definitely not recycling bins, is it? Oh, recycling was a madman's dream.

It can't be a single bin. Yeah. We're probably dealing with one big round bin with a proper shield lid that kids can joust with. I am wondering, do the uncles live together and do they both have a bin each? Well, I'm trying to work out, are these uncles brothers or are they a couple? It could be.

It could be. It does feel like in like 2020, it's probably fine. It's just to say. And it was, I suppose this is before marriage equality in the UK, but you know, who are we to say that two men can't be uncles? Absolutely. Not me, not me for one. I'm quite the opposite. I think more men should be uncles. That's what I say.

So let's assume these uncles, this is sort of a classic uncles to lovers trope. They started as uncles, they ended as lovers. Yeah, exactly. That's a Nancy Meyers new film, isn't it? It's very big in romantasy these days, Uncles To Lovers. Everyone's talking about it on TikTok. Sorry to interrupt this lovely uncle, double uncle chat. Can I blow your minds?

All right, I'm ready. I just wanted to look up when wheelie bins were introduced into the UK, like they're an invasive species. We brought them in to eat the smaller bins and then there's too many of them. And so now we need the recycling bins. Grey bins. You don't see a red bin anymore, do you? No.

Well, you'd only in certain areas of Cumbria because they cut, cause wheelie bins cut of course can't get across motorways. Yeah, that's what gets them. But right. Okay. Do you want to just, I don't know if you want to do this as a quiz. Do you want to pick a decade for when the wheelie bin was invented? As a guess for when it was invented?

Oh, invented. Invented by Frank Rotherham Mouldings. Were they rolled out? There he goes. There he is. I appreciate you getting really close to the mic so you could communicate what expression you were doing when you made that joke. They were invented by Frank Rotherham Mouldings in the UK on March 12th, 1968.

Oh, I was way off with 1890. Yeah. That's still very early. And so obviously worried about messing with the bins, he shouts out the window and the person cleared off. A tall figure, quite odd, dressed in black. Okay. All right.

Next morning, Nan calls the uncle to look outside and there was a pair of high heeled shoes pointing at the house. My uncle was very angry about this and saw it as a pair of high heeled shoes pointing at the house. My uncle was very angry about this and saw it as a form of intimidation. Not, as we know, the call to arms to be the spring heeled Jack. He didn't realise he was the chosen one. Well, he's resisting the call, isn't he? This is classic, old, whatever he's called. Joseph Campbell, Hero's Journey. Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is act one to two. There's too many acts in that. I always think like, oh, I'm going to read that and it'll help me write things. And then there's like seven steps in it. And that's too many steps for me. I get as far as rejecting the call and I just give up. Nothing calls me back.

I don't think you need to read Joseph Campbell. I think it'll come back to me if I need it. Cosmically, it'll bring me back. So a few days had passed, then there was the same guy. They see the same guy down the street. Tall and dressed in black. Tall, all black clothing, high heel shoes. This is a new bit, unusualusual facial features. But does track. Uncle shouts at him and he runs off.

They chase them to a corner and he had gone. He must have jumped or climbed over a wall. Mmm. Okay, okay. Everyone thought my uncle was mad. But the fact that both my uncles were there. Bracket not brothers, which actually I think- Just going into the twinkle. Yeah, we've got a classic twinkle. I think it does go into twinkle. And swear to this day-

Although they do appear to be living with one of the uncles, Nan. Yeah. How many Nans we got involved actually. Why is the ratio of Nan to uncle? I always forget this. I think, yeah, that's the thing. It depends if they're related uncles or they're couple uncles, cuncles. So they're not brothers. They're twuncles. They're in a twuncle. So then that's what they claim that they saw.

Everyone thought they were mad, but they were both there and swear to the day. Yeah, but you can't infer a jump from the lack of a person, I would say. That is true. And also maybe this clinches and brings a final chapter to this story or perhaps raises more questions. But around the same time, apparently, there was reports of a man fitting a similar description who got run over in Liverpool. He went under the car, got up and sprinted off. Sorry, I should have finished that sentence before.

Okay, wow. So he survived being run over. Yeah. No jumping though. No jumping. But, well not after that, no. If he could jump a station, he could jump a car. I don't think he's going to jump again, Doctor. We can rebuild him, make him stronger. Quickly Quickly grab me those springs. We need the thickest copper in Warrington.

Get over it now. That wasn't an anti-police statement. Just Warrington has a big wire industry. So of course, I don't think you can make, you can't make springs out of copper. Cut out of copper, the material, can you? Cause it's too, uh, not with that attitude. No, you're probably right. I mean, I am from the land of wire, but I'm not a wiresman.

So again, I don't think Warrington has this reputation more broadly. We don't care about your wires and we're not, we're not really impressed by that. Yeah. Sorry. I'm really sorry. I didn't know about the wires. I think I meant malleable when I said ductile, but I'm just trying to use as much sort of wire manufacturing technology as I can to make you feel welcome on the podcast.

And I do appreciate that. I do feel quite acclimatized actually. Are you sure? It feels a bit like wire cultural appropriation. Like ductile isn't my word. I can't say that. Unless you're talking about ductiles and you've been spoken. A theme tune for teaching people about metals.

Ductile. Woo. Ductile means you can, it means when you can stretch a piece of metal into a wire, that's, or a material, when you can stretch it into a wire, that's ductile. Ductile. Woo. We might make some wires and lengthening things out. Ductile. So that's kind of where we're at with Springfield Jack. I have realized though, as a keen fan of the podcast, I've not mentioned any names in there. I can only assume they were so shocked that they simply forgot their names when

they gave the report. But I was going to mention some of the names on the Penny Dreadful. Is that what you were thinking, James? Or in that case, yes? Yeah, most about the wheelie bin guy. I was thinking about the wheelie bin guy. Well, you say that, but I'm looking at the Penny Dreadful about Spring Heel Jack and Mystery of Mysteries. And there are some other characters mentioned in addition to Spring-Heeled Jack, Freezer and Lynx. Whoa, from Dragon Ball Z? Freezer and Lynx. Two different people, as far as I can tell. Is that Lynx in the sort of American for sausages sense? Because that makes sense, a Freezer

and Lynx. Freezer and Lynx stood transfixed, their ghast burden, a corpse. Oh, so I think we're dealing with some, I think we're dealing with grave robbers who are being interrupted by Spring Hill Jack, casting Spring Hill Jack in the role of hero. Well, that was the sort of the vibe that I had from him. That's why he had this sort of Batman persona was that OG Spring Hill Jack was, it sort of morphed into a sort of anti-hero that would stop crime. I didn't know about the horrible things. Will Barron This is wild. This is all, see, so I obviously

know the origin, the origin London Spring Hill Jack and of course, deep in our hearts and minds in Warrington is of course, our beloved 1920s Spring Hill Jack. But this middle era of superheroes completely new to me. He's got the look of, because I don't know an awful lot about comics, but he looks like, we're all familiar with the main guys, but there's just millions and millions of legitimate comic book characters who we've never really heard of and they're never going to make it to a movie because they're all called things like the Baker.

Oh no, it's the Baker. And it's like, he's not really got a clear thing or roof rack, you know, it isn't clear what their angle is. Yes. Yeah. What's his, what is that? What's his thing? Is he, which kind is he?

The kind you hang up or the kind on a desk? We don't even know. Or is he colander man? Colander man. Johnny Civ and Civ Boy. You know what? You're talking these down, but I actually think we've got a good franchise in here. Oh yeah.

There we go. Now we're cooking. All of those should go on the spreadsheet. Colander Man and Civ Boy. Advent of Justice or something like that. Pop that in there. Little slogan there. But Spring Hill Jack feels like one of those.

He feels like a footnote in superhero history. I never appreciated the feather before either. Oh, I thought that was an action line, but you're right. He's, he's swooping down in a graveyard and he has a dandy pink feather coming out from his brow. Yeah. That their grave robbers on that cover makes a lot more sense because there's just the guy in the middle, which does make sense to Corpse actually.

Turns out that's a Corpse. I thought it was a guy who was over it. It looks like somebody who's just over it. I have noticed that about Corpses though. They really cannot be bothered. They are some of the laziest people out there. On Spring Hill Jack, there is another Northwestern sighting, but this is mid period Spring Hill Jacks. This is around 1888 in Everton.

He appeared on the rooftop of St. Francis Xavier's church. So it's Francis Xavier's church for gifted children. So it's Francis Xavier's church for gifted children. In Salisbury street. And then in 1904, there were also appearances in nearby William Henry street. So yeah, he's bounded up there at the very least. So Jack the Ripper really took his turf and he just had to, he was like, I've got to go up north.

Yeah, that's quite sad. He was playing the big clubs in London eventually is relegated to these podunk towns. I don't know what podunk means. It's just a word I've heard. I hope it's okay to say that. The to the roof of a church. Podunk. Oh, no, no, no, no. I thought it was the name for the roof of a church.

I was learning something about architecture. It's yeah. When the Pope's announced it's on the podunk, isn't it? That's why I thought it was the name for the Rue Vautieres, but I was learning something about architecture. When the Pope's announced it's on the Poe Dunk, isn't it? That's why I thought it happened. It's when the Pope gets a real zinger in on you. When he gets a cross-court slam. Yes, in formal US, hypothetical small town regarded as typically dull or insignificant just in case we hadn't alienated and angered the people of Liverpool.

Good. I didn't, oh sorry, did I say Liverpool was a po-dunk town? Well that's the end of my life then. Criticised Liverpool as a public medium, not even leaving the house. Yeah, so he bounded up to that church there. Yeah, Xavier's church for the gifted. What do you reckon? That's one jump. That's got to be one jump for him.

Probably, yeah. Big jump, yeah. Well, good for him, I think. You know, it's night, you know, by the Mersey. Where's Aldoushaw? He went there. I don't know where Aldoushaw even is. I think he did hang out in the Midlands a bit as well. I think there's a report in Lincolnshire.

Just all of the, all of the harbour cities. It's Lincoln harbour. Maybe I could be completely wrong. It's got a coastline. That counts. Yeah, sure. Just wants bodies of water. Got fed up, fed up of the rat race.

This time he was wearing a sheepskin. An angry mob chased him and cornered him. They fired guns at him with no effect. And then he, as it says here, as usual, he was said to have made use of his leaping abilities to lose the crowd and disappear once again. But it could have been a very bouncy sheep. Cause sheep can jump. Yeah. Yeah. They don't have to stay in fields. They choose to. Can they? I don't know.

But they can jump. And it sounded believable, didn't it? When I said it, I think they're pretty decent jumpers, some sheep away. I wasn't an intentional, no, no. Whoa, whoa. Is this a pawn? Is this a pawn, Alistair? Oh, sorry.

Eddie's in preparation checking his mics working this time. I like that Spring Hill Jack always gets cornered and it's like a Bugs Bunny character. Like, it's like a Bugs Bunny situation where he goes like, Bling! Every time is a capture. It's not as if he's like, he's pretty clumsy. He's pretty rude. He doesn't have a clear set of desires or things he wants to achieve. It's just always kind of annoying somebody who seems to try and corner him and then he

just jumps. It's sort of, we're in kind of nightboat territory where the writers have to come up with a reason for him to jump over a station or something every episode. Yeah, when he jumped the station that was really the end for Springfield Jack. Well, James. Should we hop back in that cardboard time machine and go back to... The present day. Yes. Let's go back to... Wait, you just want us to go back to the future, James. All right. Let's do it. Yes, we need to return. You said it, not me.

It's your kids. But I'm going to say back to the future. I'm going to say back to the future, too. So is Eddie's bike on? Tap, tap, tap, tap. James, now that we are safely back in the year twenty twenty five, when nothing bad could ever happen. Are you ready to pass judgment on Warrington's own? Warrington's favorite son, Spring Heel Jack, the famously Warrington's own, Warrington's favourite son, Spring Heel Jack. The famously Warrington-based folklore figure.

Spring Heel Jack too. Chris Evans, not that one. Kerry Katona. Tim Curry, very tenuously. And of course, Spring Heel Jack. Tim Curry's from Warrington. He's from Grappenhall, which is in the borough of Warrington, but he left very young.

So I think it's a real technical, technical jack. It didn borough of Warrington, but he left very young, so I think it's a real technical death. It didn't really soak into his voice, did it? No. The Warrington accent. Ah! That's the Warrington twang there, actually. We all bounce down here.

Now, Spring Hill Jack would look very good in Rocky Horror Picture Show. I think his vibe would really suit that. And he could easily travel to the only place not corrupted by capitalism. Space. Do you know that James, you're looking like you don't know the reference I was making there. Was it the, is it the film? Oh, wait a minute. It's the, is that video game?

It's Command and Conquer, I think. Red Alert, isn't it? Red, is it Red Alert? Is it Command and Conquer Red Alert? Or Red Alert? It may be Command and Conquer, I think. Red Alert, isn't it? Is it Red Alert? Is it Command and Conquer Red Alert? It may be Command and Conquer Red Alert. Yes, Command and Conquer. Command and Conquer. I haven't played it, but I have seen the clip where he plays a Russian

who is really having a good time there, delivering those lines and with no commitment whatsoever to the character at the moment. But it would have been better in a vaguely Scout accent that I'm not going to attempt to do out of respect for you. Are you ready to score us then James? Absolutely big time. Big time show time. Ready to score, in fact. You can take the man out of big time show time. You can take the man out of big time showtime, but you can't take the big time showtime out of the man. Absolutely not.

Big time showtime, the drama school rung by gangsters for children. Which if that earlier bit has been cut to the bonus section is it makes about the same amount of sense. How could the listener will be saying, how could big time showtime drama school run by gangsters for children? How could that not be proper top level content? How could that possibly be relegated to donors? How good this episode has been. It's all been gold. All right, Eddie, as your lawyer slash attorney, I don't really know the difference slash solicitor slash barrister. Barrister, let's go with barrister as your barrister. I recommend that you plead names.

Okay. I'll plead names please for 12. Okay. First category names James. The first category of names that is, oh, we definitely heard the word Spring-Heeled Jack. Yeah. There's a lot of spring. Could read that a lot. And whilst it was attributed or attributed to a number of different

people, it was ultimately the same name. Okay. Yeah. There was Billy bouncy sheep. Do you remember him? The sheep, the big, the bouncy sheep. It was the, was that the sort of prototype for big mouth Billy? But it kept getting lost.

It kept flying off the wall. They already didn't want a jumping sheep, they wanted a singing fish. We had Freezer and Links. Yeah, Freezer and Links is very good. Freezer and Links, Freezer and Links. Freezer and Links, lock up your bodies. We've got a lot of street names. Any fans of the street names?

Was it Ormford Road? Ormford Road, yeah. Any A to Z fans got you covered? Orford Lane? Grand Central Station of Warrington. Grand in the sense of being like fine rather than too big. Look, you can't say it's not central. You can't say it's not central.

Can't take that away from Warrington. The hyphenate Frank Rotherham molding. Jack the Ripper. Jack T. Yes. Maybe a bit famous. Another Jack. True. Another Jack.

The title of your show, I'll allow you to roll that in as well. That was good. So I'm going to give it a... Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Because Eddie also has a podcast. I know this sounds like a setup plug, but it isn't. It's just got a really good name. So I feel like I want to slip this in now rather than waiting until later.

All righty. Eddie, your new ongoing podcast is called iPod A Spell On You. Yes, that's right. Yes. Which is a good pun. Yeah. It's a great pun until I Googled it and realised that Google does want to correct it to iPod, a spell on you.

Which does feel like that, come on, we've got to be past iPods now, please. Yeah, they gave us the word pod and then we discarded them. Yeah, we don't even, yeah. And that's a podcast about magic and more. Yes, yeah, so we have guests on and we talk about, it's normally artists, comedians, theatre makers and folks. And then I invite them on to bring a very specific 21st century problem that I use magic from spell books from the 1800s and back to try and solve, which surprisingly actually I've got a pretty good rate of success.

Hmm. I mean that's said like a guy who has leeches on him right now. Only two. But they're doing their job. Okay then. Well, I was going with a three, but that has nudged up to a four. Well done. Well done. A shameful plug, but it was worth it. Yeah. And what's the second cat? I suggest, speaking as your live-in attorney, I suggest names. No, we just said names. Speaking please.

I request names to the jury. Let that be stricken from the record. As your live in attorney, I suggest supernatural. I'll do, I'll choose supernatural. Okay then. Now wheelie bins, they're real. But I've got nothing. You're right. They're very tangible objects that we know.

Yeah. All right. Wheelie bins are real, but they look like they are a Doctor Who villain and they look like they look kind of sinister, spooky. We've all seen the videos of them moving by themselves. Yes, exactly. That one tried to eat a cat that time. Yes. And it achieved notoriety. Of course we've got the Spring Heel Jack cinematic universe as well.

There's a lot of magic in there. You know, count. The S-H-J-C-U. That's right. Took me a little while to get there. Thanks for editing down that pause. We've got the fun of the, of the, you know, Spring Heel Jack passing down to people, the sort of Santa Claus magic there.

The legend of Spring-Hilled Jack. Those, that twinkle that rejected the core. Yep. Yep. To become new Spring-Hilled Jack for the new generation, Ben Affleck, Spring-Hilled Jack or whatever. Now I'm the Spring-Hilled Jack. That's if it was Werther's Originals. So it doesn't have to be, it doesn't have to be the Santa Claus. It could also be the Werther's originals guy.

How does the Werther's originals pass on the legacy? Through Werther's originals. The eating of Werther's originals. Yeah. Your fingers have a little trouble with the shiny paper at first. And then towards the end, the arthritis as well. It's very sad actually. Yeah.

What else was supernatural though? Well, he, but he jumped over numerous buildings and walls, James. It's mainly the jump thing. You, you cannot jump that high. Could have transformed into a sheep as well. Yes. There's that bit where he turned into a sheep. Yes.

Okay. So it's still low though, isn't it? Well, you believe he actually jumped over all those things? Well, this, this one didn't even do the blue flames. No, no, he didn't. But it's more realistic in it. It's like when they did the MCU. Oh, like the sort of like a bat, like a the Batman. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So

It's a gritty reboot of Spring Heel Jack James. Okay. It's still low though, isn't it? That doesn't make it more supernatural. I'm jumping over the wall. I don't know what the accent is in Warrington. Oh no. I'm jumping too high. I can't really do it.

He's taunting me with some boots. That well-known taunt. That gives me a great idea for a song, boys. Was that a Beatle? Was that a generic Beatle? That was generic Beatle. That was a generic Beatle. Generic Beatle.

Nice work. Are the Beatles from Liverpool? They never, I don't know. I find it so hard to like figure out where they're from. They're so secretive about it. So little information about that. I think they're from Sheffield actually. There's a lot of bands from there, right?

That sounds about right, yeah. Why? Just trying to get us killed in the comments. I don't see why Liverpoolians should only come after me. Let's get all three of us in trouble. He's still two though. Come on. He's not, you get some super naturality for Spring Hill Jack and the idea that

a Spring Hill Jack might have lasted over a hundred years. That's pretty good. Or that there is a passing down of the Spring Hill Jackness, like the Dread Pirate Roberts spoiler. Well, now I'm the Dread Pirate Roberts. Works for everyone. Well, now I'm the Batman. That gives me an idea for a song.

Is that when Paul McCartney passed on being Paul to the new guy who plays Paul McCartney? Yeah, when Paul McCartney died that time. To Billy Shears. Now I'm the Paul McCartney. It's just making me think of now I'm the captain from that. Look at me. Look at me. Now I'm Paul McCartney.

Very different yellow submarine. Very different yellow submarine. Eddie. Okay. That was an absolutely terrible choice in the last bit of a washout. I really, I really thought Spring He heels were going to help him more. Yeah. I thought we were going to get more.

I suggest in this category, we go with Jack of no mates. Okay. Okay. Going to go for Jack of no mates, James. Ooh, yes. So it's a bit of wordplay. Yes. You see, cause it sounds like Jack of all trades.

It sounds a bit like Billy no mates. That's got Jack in there. And it's, and Jack is pivotal to this story. Absolutely central. And the Jack that is characterized by these tales is an unfortunate fellow. Not, not a happy man. I was going to say bunny, but he is sometimes a sheep. Although rabbits are good at jumping.

Every time someone tries to get close to him, he springs away. Boy, oh, yeah. Yeah. He's got commitment issues. Yes. Ignore the nasty stuff from the start of the, yeah. Well, that's, that's not Warrington Jack, you know? Different guy. Different guy. But he's, yeah, he's not got a side. Just like the way we don't blame Tim Allen for the things Santa Claus did.

Convicted Valentine. Tim Allen for the thing Santa Claus did. He didn't have a sidekick. No, he didn't even have like a Siv boy, a really rubbish sidekick that we invented. Spring Jack Russell would have been great. Just as a pitch. Oh, like his dog. Yeah. Popping over a slightly smaller wall. Yeah. Yeah. Popping over a slightly smaller wall. Yeah.

Yeah. Nevertheless impressive for a dog of that size. Or a Springer heeled spaniel. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

That's a good stuff. So many potential tumorous dog sidekicks and he chose not to do that. No. Because dogs are a man's best friend and this guy had no mates, James. Not a one. Okay. That is high. It's a four. It's a mates James. Not a one. Okay. That is high. It's a four.

It's a four. It's a four. Yeah. I'm settling on a four cause he had no friends at all. You think he had one friend maybe? What makes it not five? Oh, and that one friend was the night. Good shot.

Yeah. Well, I guess the, the spring manufacturers. And also the night is for lovers. He didn't have, he didn't have a lover. No. No. Okay. All right then.

Let me just. Well, a four is, a four is respectable. Eddie, you should be very happy with that. Yeah. Some people have done a lot worse than this. Me mostly. Yeah. Especially James.

So for our final category, this needs to be a big one, Eddie. Again, here I'm speaking as your mentor. We know one thing about James and that he likes the back to the future films. Yeah. So I think we need to do something which leans into that. Delore. No, there's no Deloreans in this story. I'm not going to trick myself again.

I think we should go with sequel. Oh yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Go on then.

Do it. Do it. Going to go for sequels, James. Ah, yes. So how do you like that? Because? It's just a lot of potential, a lot of franchise potential here, I think. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Well, we've got a long continuing series, the Spring Heel Jack expanded cinematic universe. Spring Heel Saga. Yep. Yeah. The Spring Heel Saga. I can see podcasts.

I can see linear TV streaming. Franchise material. This is, this is franchise material. Yep. We've already got the dogs in there as well. Yep. We did mention some dogs. Dog spin-off. Origin story of the dog. Where did the dog come from?

Well, we don't want to see that too graphically. Especially if they're both springy. Puppies! Puppies! Pongo! Puppies! Springy old Jack babies? Pongo! Puppies! Spring, Spring Hill Jack Babies? Whoa! I don't like when they drew them though. Just keeping his puppets.

You can draw a puppet, it's fine. And of course we've got the twonkles. The sequel to Uncles is twonkles. Twonkles. Two uncles. Brackets, not brothers, close brackets. I'm seeing uncles here! Look who's uncleing too!

Look who is also an uncle. Was the original title for them, then they made it catchier. I'm seeing double. Two twonkers. Well, now I'm the twonker. That gives me an idea for a great song. Twonk-inkle. That works. And Billy Shears was the sequel to Paul McCartney. Paul McCartney, for no reason.

That's a lot of things that might tenuously be regarded as sequels. That's a lot of sequeling. And of course, you know, the Back to the Future films were lightly referenced. Ever so lightly. Ah, yes. I think it would work as a musical saying, you know, Spring Hill Jack. It was a play, I think. Spring Hill Jack was a play, I believe at some point.

Surely it must have been. Who would, who would you use as a jukebox musical for this? I mean, the Beatles are, we've initially spoken about them, but I wonder if there's another band that we could get to be the jukebox musical of Spring Killed Jack. It needs to be someone at beat. I'm thinking so, you know, not like, Hey, hear me out. Here's my pitch.

House of Pain. Yes. Just jump around for two hours. Ten times. Yeah. I don't know enough about music. I was going to say Atomic Kitten, but I haven't got a reason for that. Well, the Keri Katona is from Warrington.

So that's the reason I knew there was a connection. Keri Katona, who I had forgotten was in Atomic Kitten. Yeah. All right. Yeah. Let's make it. The Atomic Kitten jukebox musical. Don't you have to have several songs people like to have a Duke Box

musical? That is always a hard part of it, but not necessarily the one thing holding us back from this. I've just realized I was actually thinking of Bewitched, but anyway, it's not important. Beast are witch. Beast are witch as it is correctly pronounced. Yes. Yeah, they connect pronunciation. Yeah. I mean, it's five out of five all the way, all the way, even with the addition of just musicals as a thing of a genre, famously very bad at sequels.

Grease too, although I love it. No one else does. And that sequel to Phantom of the Opera that really bombed badly. Yeah. Apart from that, I mean, writing, if there's any decent musical sequels, right into Eddie. Yeah. Let me know. Yeah. How from that? I mean, right. And if there's any decent musical sequels right into Eddie. Yeah. Let me know.

Thanks. Thanks everyone. But yes, no, that's an absolutely five out of five wonderful stuff. Thank you very much, Eddie. That was an excellent story. And well told. Thank you for coming on the podcast

and revealing a side of Spring Hill, Jack, that we didn't know about. He went to know that he went there. Yeah. And he frightened the band by the bins, frightened the twunkles. Yeah. Yeah. And then did what actually the more we learn about them does seem

like quite homophobic act. Hmm. The high heeled shoes. Well, if they took it as an insult and you know, it's in mid 90s and they're two uncles living together. I'm not saying that Spring Hill Jack did it on purpose. I think Spring Hill Jack was just calling, sending the call, you know, much like the Ghostbusters answer the call.

But it was such a toxic atmosphere. Yeah. But I think it must've been such a toxic atmosphere. Much like with Ghostbusters answer the call. Absolutely. Is that a video game? That's the 2016 Ghostbusters film. Was that what it was called?

Ghostbusters Answer the Call? Well, I think it sort of added a suffix to it so you can go like, it's not proper Ghostbusters because people didn't want it to be proper Ghostbusters. Anyway, I think we've been sidetracked by Ghostbusters. Tell us again about the name of the podcast, the name of the tour. Where is the tour happening? Yes, I will. Thanks.

That is on. We're doing it. My podcast is iPod A Spell On You, which is where I invite guests. They bring their problems and I use the cutting edge of pre 18th century magic to help solve all of their problems with what has been, I must say again, not a bad rate of success considering what I've been trying to solve. Was I 40%? 50? It's over 50.

Wow. On my count, I think we're about 60, 70. So we've never solved anyone's problem on this podcast, James. No, we've caused some. Still out there. Maybe, maybe one of my life hacks. And then my show is Eddie Hurst's Wonderful Discovery of Witches in the County of Themself, which is a show about the Lancashire Witch trials, the Vengaboys and nothing else.

Wink. Wink. And that is, it's currently on a little tour break actually. We finished the last bit of tour in April in Chorley and then it's starting again in September, but I'll be at the Edinburgh Fringe for the full run at Roxy downstairs at 2.20pm. Last year I was there at 4.20pm. So I'm glad I've kept the 20pm, but... It usually kicks off by 4.20pm. Usually the fights are starting. So you want to be, you want to be a little bit...

I'm really happy to be out here. That's a great time. We'll go see that everyone. Everyone! Well, at least 60 people a day would be great because that's the capacity. But you know, if you want to, and if not, that's also fine. I like, why am I saying this? Why have I started introducing this? He's threatening you listener.

If you don't go, terrible things will happen. Your milk will go sour. Yeah. Yeah. Your swine will fall ill. You'll leave some boots outside your house. I will leave some boots outside your house. I will leave some boots outside your house.

In an intimidating manner. Oh, you better believe it. They'll be very intimidating. Well, now you're Eddie Hirst. That's how it works. That's how he passes it on. That was Eddie Hurst, isn't he a nice chap? That was a real lot of fun. There's plenty of bonus bits from that which are available to people who support us at

patreon.com forward slash lawmen pod. Going to pop a little teaser of that at the end. A little teaser? A little teaser? A little teaser taste? Yes. A little amuse-bouche? Oh, yeah. Yeah, a bit at the end. So listen out for that. A little teaser. A little teaser taste. Ears. A little amuse-bouche. Oh yeah. Yeah, a bit of the ears. Thank you very much to Eddie for bringing that to us. Thank you very much to Joe for editing the episode. Cheers Joe. Oh, thank you to everyone who already does support us on patreon.com forward slash on my pod. Yeah, high fives all round. Pssspsspssh. Thanks Alistair for being Alistair. Thank you James for just being you. Yeah. And thank you, the listener, for also continuing to be you. Can I just clarify, is this a company or a man, Frank Rotherham Mouldings? I think I don't know if it's hyphenated, but I think it is a company rather than a man called Frank Rotherham Moldings. I mean, according to Gemini, so we're getting loose here.

Oh no, Gemini! In the late 60s, early 70s, some sources suggest that the wheelie bin was also being developed in Germany. So it's got, I mean, this is a real like second world war. We've got to get there before the Germans. If we don't deploy the wheelie bins. Russia, US, space race, UK, Germany, the bin run.