Loremen Podcast - Loremen S6Ep2 - The Curse of the Black Monk

Episode Date: February 6, 2025

Alasdair introduces James to the inverted ghost of Lady Elizabeth Hoby. Prepare your ears for the tragic tale of Lady Hoby's (imaginary) son William. Are the legends true? Was the mistress of Bisham Abbey cursed by a Benedictine monk? Was Lady Hoby... a murderer? As usual, the answer is "probably not". But that won't stop the Loreboys. And if anyone invites you to Bisham Abbey, take care that you don't fall foul of the curse of the black monk! Thunderclap! This episode was edited by Joseph Burrows - Audio Editor Join us LIVE in Leicester on the 9th February 2025 (2025): comedy-festival.co.uk/events/loremen-live Join the LoreFolk here... patreon.com/loremenpod ko-fi.com/loremen Check the sweet, sweet merch here... https://www.teepublic.com/stores/loremen-podcast?ref_id=24631 @loremenpod youtube.com/loremenpodcast www.instagram.com/loremenpod www.facebook.com/loremenpod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey Spotify, this is Javi. My biggest passion is music, and it's not just sounds and instruments. It's more than that to me. It's a world full of harmonies with chillers. From streaming to shopping, it's on Prime. TD Direct Investing offers live support. So whether you're a newbie or a seasoned pro, you can make your investing steps count. And if you're like me and think a TFSA stands for total

fund savings adventure, maybe reach out to TD Direct Investing. Welcome to Lawmen, a podcast about local legends and obscure curiosities from days of yore. I'm Alistair Beckett King. And I'm James Shake Shaft. And James, I got a story for you this week. Yeah. About a strange old hobby, an inverted ghost and the curse of the Black Monk. It's just struck lightning here.

Lightning strikes. Yikes. Well, let's get struck lightning here. Lightning strikes. Yikes. Well, I think we'd better get on with it. Away to Berkshire. James Shake Shaft. Alistair Becker-King. How are you enjoying Series 6 so far? Oh, it feels good. It just feels different, doesn't it?

It's just Season 5. Series, Season, what shall we say? We say Series. Do we? But the more and more I interact with Americans, I've almost say season. Well, in the first episode of season six, you told a story from Buckinghamshire. Yes. And now, James, I'd like to take you a world away to a place called Berkshire. Whoa. From Berkshire to Berkshire? Yes. And I think, I think, Berkshire is the origin of Burke, the insult.

Yes. Have we talked about this on the podcast before? Yeah, yeah. It's the race, isn't it? The Berkshire hunt. A story I like to call, The Curse of the Black Monk. Whoa. You can imagine your own Hammer Horror titles and graphics at this point.

It struck lightning here as well at exactly the same time. That's incredible. Now James, we're in Berkshire. You know, normally I despise the South of England and all the people in it. Yeah, and you live there, so it makes buying milk from the shop very difficult. Yeah, it does. So anyway, new season, new me. This is a story from the South of England. A few James were following the Thames, the famous River Thames. Oh yes. Or also known as the River Isis or Thamesis.

Lived on a tributary. Live on a tributary. Nice work. Someone's got to fill that river with water. Yes. It's got to be filled, hasn't it? Oh, we go. Oh, living on a tributary, living on a tributary.

I don't know. It's named Israel and it goes through Oxfordshire. Its name is Isis and we don't use that much anymore. Yeah, obviously, for obvious reasons. It's too now, too indelibly associated with the dog from Downton Abbey. If you were walking the Thames through Berkshire, you would probably pass through the village of Bisham, formerly Busselham. And you might see Bisham Abbey. That's quite a famous building.

It's had some quite famous occupants. Ever heard of Anne of Cleves, James? Yes, I have heard of Anne of Cleves. She invented the big knife, the chef's knife, right? The cleaver? Yeah. Well, she, James, didn't live there, but she nearly did. Oh.

As you'll find out later on. That was Anne of Cleves, wife of Henry V. Or Henry VIII, that's what people call him these days. Henry V. Henry V. I think I'm sorry, it's pronounced. V. V. V.

V. V. V. V. V. V. V. V.

V. V. V. V. V. V. V. V. Vi. That would be Vi up your way, wouldn't it's pronounced. Vi. Vi. Vi.

Vi. That would be Vi up your way, wouldn't it? Vi. It's Vi. It's Henry Vi. It's Henry Vi. And the house appears in at least one Philippa Gregory novel. So it's, you know, it's quite an important place, but big twist.

M. Nungat Shyamalan style twist. It's not really an Abbey. Bisham Abbey. Now he would probably wait to the end of his films to do the twist. I'm getting one in right at the start. So it's just a bit more efficient. This, no offense. This is not yet my favorite M Night Shyamalan film.

No, the one where Abbey turned out not to be an Abbey. It was a, it was a manor house all along. Is it called The Abbey? It's a really good film. Bruce Willis plays a manor house. Alistair, have you just whirled the twist? No, it's not important. So, callback.

Nice. Very lengthy callback there. I see land registry deeds. So, Bisham Abbey is a manor house that takes his name from the ruined Bisham Abbey, which isn't there anymore, which double twist was also hardly an Abbey in the first place. Whoa. Am I back where I started? Have I twisted so hard?

Yeah, exactly. Wolf. Wolf. Take notes, M. Knight. Or M'Knight. That's very posh. I'm tipping my cap to him as I say it. Midnight, midnight Shyamalan.

So the land of Bisham Abbey was granted to the Knights Templar back in the 12th century. What do you know about the Templars, James? I don't know enough. I keep hearing them. They sound like a prog group for a start from the 70s, but you also hear that they're sort of linked with like conspiracies and rule in the world and stuff like that. But then it also seems they did actually rule some countries. Yeah. Unlike the Illuminati, they are an actual historical organisation. But I also, I've got a

vague sense that they exist and are important like Ariana Grande, but I don't know any specific information about them. Right. Really. And like Ariana Grande, maybe they run a country? They might be controlling the world from behind the scenes. We don't know. They seem to be your basic Indiana Jonesy kind of an outfit on the cusp of history and

magic. And in his book, In Search of the Knights Templar, Simon Brighton describes Bishop Abbey as a Templar headquarters. It was literally a Templar headquarters because it was one of the hiding places of the Templar heads of Baphomet. Ooh, is that French? Yeah, or if you are a fan of the video game series Broken Sword, Baphomet. But it sounds too much like vomit, I think.

Oh, wait a minute. Is that one of them? Isn't that a demon? Yeah, Baphomet, Baphomet. Is he the one with the goats? One of the many ones with the goats? I think three goaty faces, I think. Yeah. He's got three goaty faces now.

I don't know if this is fact or if this is the video game Broken Sword. But let's assume fact. And the Templars supposedly had four heads of Baphomet, which I'm going to say gave them magical powers. They had four? They had four of them. They may have been idols that they worshipped, or these might just be examples of anti-Templar propaganda from when people were trying to get rid of the Templars and they were like,

they were worshipping those heads. Well, they just really liked goats. Who doesn't like a weird three-headed goat on the wall? Everyone until you look at their eyes and realize they've got those rectangular eyes here. Yeah, weird rectangular eyes! That doesn't make sense. It's against everything we've ever learned at school.

Anyway, sorry. Is it really pronounced Baphomet? I think it's pronounced, how would you pronounce it? I've only ever seen it written down in musty old tomes and I would have called it Baphomet. Baphomet. Maybe it's Baphomet. And to be honest, Alistair, you're lucky I read the whole word. Baff to his friends.

B-summit, Baph-summit. I'm trying to do goat, but it's coming out lamb. It's coming out adorable ginger lamb. That sort of thing was probably going on all the time back when Bishop Abbey was a Templar headquarters. But the Templar part of the Abbey is long since ruined. And what we call Bishop Abbey now is the manor house, even though it was not of the Abbey is long since ruined. And what we call Bisham Abbey now is the manor house, even though it was not really an Abbey. It did fall very briefly into the hands

of the Black Monks. Yeah. In the 16th century, the property came to house the Benedictine monks, also known as the Black Monks more dramatically. Yes. But they weren't there for very long because of little known historical figure, Henry V. I just don't know how to pronounce him. Henry Ville. I think it's Henry Ville. Henry Ville. Yeah. So the Benedictine monks got kicked out of a nearby abbey because of the dissolution of the monasteries, whereby Henry VIII had them all sort of smashed up and nicked all their stuff for really good reasons. He became very disillusioned with the monasteries whereby Henry VIII had them all sort of smashed up and nicked all their stuff for really good reasons.

He became very disillusioned with the monasteries. They moved to Bisham Abbey only to then get kicked out of Bisham Abbey, a la the three little pigs. Oh, so they went to an abbey made of sticks? Yeah, I think then they went to an abbey made of sticks. Stick of abbey, right? And that were even easier to dissolve. By the way, the dissolving of the abbeys for people who are less familiar with their history,

this isn't like an Alka-Seltzer thing, is it? They haven't foolishly made their abbey out of bicarbonate of soda. No, no, of course not. Disillusion meant smashing up with cannons and hammers. Yeah, and not the ecclesiastical cannons. Yes. Although maybe too. I think also taking quite a lot of the valuables that they had. Stealing.

But leaving the buildings to go to ruin in many cases. Because of Henry VIII's quite publicised and embarrassing divorce situation. He had to literally invent it in this country. I'm sure it existed before. Yes. He invented the idea of being the worst. Really bad guy. Now, in 1538, the Abbey was dissolved and according to the writer David Nash Ford. Cool name. He sounds like a heavy metal bassist. Yeah. Or a car that eats people. Yeah, bit Stephen King.

According to David Nash Ford, as the Abbot was being dragged out, he laid a curse upon any future residents. He said, as God is my witness, I find it hard to read the phrase as God is my witness in any accent other than like cowboy. No, I think so. I just don't think, I don't think English people say that. As God is my witness, this property shall ne'er be inherited by two direct successors, for its sons will be hounded by misfortune. Yeah, that was the curse spake by the last of the Black Monks, who I think would be a man called

John Cordroy. I want to say John Corderoy. Jason Vale John Corderoy? Johnny Cordes? Jason Vale Little Johnny Flares, yeah. John Corderoy. So, according to Hilaire Belloc's book, The Historic Thames, John Corderoy was the first and last abbot of Bisham. Jason Vale But that's quite a good clever, that's quite a clever curse to... Jason Vale It's quite specific, isn't it?

Jason Vale To make sure it becomes a monastery or something, because presumably monasteries, because of the nature of being married... I don't know if monks are married to God or they're... I know nuns are meant to be married to... They're mates, they're more mates, like good friends. Like Jesus is his best man. Yeah, it's sort of more of a bromance. Okay.

Well, either way, they don't tend to marry and have children. Therefore, that curse would work because the curse was you can't, it's not going to be handed down more than once or something, right? Yeah, basically that. The sons come off quite badly and you'll see that to some extent that curse comes true. Oh. Annoyingly, Hilaire Belloc's account of this happening doesn't mention the curse, which is kind of irritating because I called the episode, The Curse of the Black Monks. Because I really liked

the curse and I really made an effort. I really, really tried to find David Nash Ford's source for that curse. And hey, James, of all the things I wouldn't want to cast, top of that list is aspersions. Yes. On David Nash Ford. You have mentioned that. Yeah. Yeah. But that is the last thing I'd want to do. But that curse doesn't seem, as far as I can tell, to appear anywhere on the internet before the year 2000, where it appears in an article written by David Nash Ford. Now, I don't know, millennium bug. Could easily be.

Could easily be a millennium bug situation. I'd love to know the source of that. If you are David Nash Ford, congratulations on the name. Please, please let us know what the source of the curse is. But I just wanted to go on record and say, I definitely believe that it's true. And it happened, even though it has the phrase as God is my witness, which I just sounds Texan to me. Yeah. I always think of it as Bob as well. For some reason, Bob is my witness. Yeah.

With Bob as my witness. Yeah. That's a bit more twin peaks that one. Yeah. So celebrity sidebar after, after this happened, after John Cordray was dragged out, Anne of Cleves got Bishop Abbey in her divorce with Henry V. But then Edward V, just shorter there, just one I, Henry V. Edward V.

Edward V. V. V. V. Edward V. But then Edward V gave. V lie. Gave the house to someone else basically. And she got a different house. Edward Vye? But then Edward Vye gave... Vye lie! ...gave the house to someone else, basically, and she got a different house,

we hope, of equal or greater value. Wasn't Edward Vye like seven or something? Yes. I'm not sure how involved, I mean, how interested can a seven-year-old be in houses like that? You know, probably someone else did it. He was a sickly child. So that's the history of Bisham Abbey. Bish. Let us meet the Abbey's ghost.

Yes, please. Enter Lady Hobby. Now, James, when I say Lady Hobby to you, what does that make you think of? The hobby, a sort of hobby that a lady might have. Could you give me an example of that, James? Cross stitch. James, you've fallen into my trap. You should have said coding or STEM or anything, anything really, because James on this podcast, we

believe that women can do anything. I know, but I mean, I thought it was a lady from like, like a lady from like the 1600s. The olden days. Yeah. Needlepoint, McCrame. Needlepoint was coding. Well, in a way, weaving and coding are connected, aren't they? Because the way looms work. Are they? Yeah. Like the early computers were basically looms. I want to say. What? Now I'm saying it out loud. It doesn't sound true, but I'm pretty certain looms and early computers basically live the same thing. I don't think... We don't have a no context lawmen Instagram account, but if someone did want to set one

up purely for the purposes of early computers were looms. Early computers were looms. Looms were early computers. They're the same thing, James. If you show someone an early enough computer, they would not be able to tell the difference between that and the Loom. I mean, like the Jacquard Loom, like they use punch holes and things, don't they, to control the pattern and early computers use punch cards.

So it's kind of the same. Yeah. And that's that thing, isn't it? Technology sufficiently basic is indistinguishable from Looms. thing isn't it? Technology sufficiently basic is indistinguishable from looms. I first encountered Lady Hobby in Edith Setwell's English Eccentrics. That was my starting point for this story. And Lady Hobby was so eccentric, she died and became an eccentric ghost. What? Yeah. And you'll find out how she is eccentric later. She was born Elizabeth Cook around about the same time that the Abbott was being dragged

out of Bisham Abbey. And she died Lady Russell. But her first husband was Thomas Hobbie, spelled H-O-B-Y. Wow. From a cook to a hobby to just a Russell. So while she was married to Tommy Hobbie, she had four hobby children. Oh no. That feels like she wasn't a great parent.

Well, you're kind of getting ahead of me there. She's quite famous for being quite a bad parent, but we'll see. So Elizabeth and Anne were her first children. And sadly they died young and Edward and Thomas were born later. And Thomas was actually born after his father died and he was named Thomas Postumus Hobby. Oh, Post Thomas. Thomas were born later and Thomas was actually born after his father died and he was named Thomas Posthumous Hobby. Oh, Posthumous.

Yeah. But because it was the olden days, it was spelt Posthumous. And I just let me tell you the mailman will not accept Thomas. All male person because on this podcast, we believe women can do anything. Yes. Including collecting a jiffy bag full of hummus. Well, they can't actually, no one can. No, they won't. They'll say, no, you can't. You can't post hummus. You can't post a hummus.

Don't post a hummus. Computers are looms. So history, history. Those boffins in the libraries, James, claim that Lady Hobby had four children. Yeah. But legend, legend tells that there was a fifth hobby, child. There is another. Yeah, exactly. It's like that Yeman Yoder said. Yeman Yyoda, yes. Yeman Yoda, yeah. Apparently there was a fifth hobby called William.

Right, Billy Hobbs. Yeah, little Wibbly Hobbly was, was what I'm sorry that I made you laugh there because it was a very sad story. A very poor, very unfortunate child. He was slow at his lessons, you see. And Lady hobby was a very educated woman and she was cruel and impatient with him. Oh, now one version, the hobby, the hobby lady, the hobby lady. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you started to like her, get ready to not like her. One version of the story claims she got so angry with him one day, she'd just beat him to death. Gee, yay, yay, yay. Now I should say this is probably one of those cases of history having an

educated and influential woman and everyone going, oh yeah, probably evil. Probably murdered her own son. Which son? Oh, one you don't know about, who goes to another school. She only had four children, they're all quite well documented and their deaths are documented. Yeah, well she had a different one. Yeah, but there was a different one, it was one you don't even know about. Covered up, wasn't it? Covered up, wasn't it? Yeah. They covered the whole thing up, James. Yeah, they covered it up.

Now that observation that I just made was actually made by Professor Patricia Philippi in her book, Women, Deaf and Literature in Post-Reformation England. She made that point without using the phrase, he goes to another school. So you can give her credit if you want, or you can just let me, a man, take credit for that observation. It's your choice. On this podcast, we believe that women can do anything, anything, including let you take credit for their ideas. Thanks.

Right? If they want. Yeah. There's a more dramatic version of the story as told by David Nash Ford, which is that William enraged his mother by blotting his copybook over and over again. And so one day Lady Hobby tied him to a chair until he learned, I guess, not to be dyslexic. Oh, literally blotted his copybook, not figuratively blotted his copybook. Literally, yeah, literally.

Because he probably just left-handed or something. It sounds like he just had some kind of special educational needs. And so quite reasonably, she tied him to a chair and left him in a room at his lessons. But then, yeah, are you making judgmental noises to indicate that we don't approve of this sort of thing? Yes. I feel I should go back and make judgmental noises for my own joke, which was saying that it was fine for us to steal women's ideas. I'm just going to do something and we can edit that in.

No. There we go. I'm saying the opposite of what I mean. Good. Now use that wisely actually. Edit in after he said women can do anything. So Lady Hobby left little Willy at his lessons, but then news came that she was wanted at court by Queen Elizabeth. Aye. Aye wanted at court by Queen Elizabeth I. I? Elizabeth I? Elizabethy? Yep, a little cameo from Yoda again there.

And naturally she hurried away to court, terribly excited to see the Queen. And it was several days before she returned. And when she got back, she asked the servants to see her son. She asked, where's William? And the servants were confused. And they said, oh, and this isn't a direct quote or a Berkshire accent, but they said, oh, Marm, begging your pardon, Marm, but we thought he were being with you. Yeah, bad news.

So she went at a lick of speed. She went up to the room where she'd left him, turned to the chair. And of course, William Hobbie had expired. Tragic. Now, again, there's no evidence that William ever existed. Except, except as Christ in a Hole, It's Christina Hole records. Well friend of the show Christina Hole, Christ in a Hole. Years later, when the manor was being remodelled, some old copy books were found bearing the name of William Hobbie,

with the ink all blotted. I was going to say how blotted were they? They were very blotted. Very. They were famously blotted. And this is a cool example of how in the retelling stories get slightly exaggerated. When Edith Sitwell repeats this, she has it that the ink was blotted with a boy's tears, as if they were like, well, get these down to the lab. Stat. I need to know if those were boys tears that did that. To paraphrase spinal tap, you can't dust for boys tears.

And James, that copy book can still be seen today. Of course it can't, it crumbled instantly to dust. Yes. It's gone. Perfect. It's gone. But you know, proof if need be, proof be. Yes. Proofy, proofy, proof, proof.

Now, you're probably thinking Lady Hobbie feels pretty bad about this whole situation. Mm hmm. Yes. You're right. She felt terribly, terribly guilty. And that is why her ghost appears in Bisham Abbey to this day, whenever these books were written. Nice. But it's an eccentric ghost because ghosts usually are kind of glowy, aren't they? Yeah. But Lady Hobbie appears like a photo negative. Yeah, so her presumably pale skin appears dark and she appears like an inverted image of herself,

forever washing her hands in a bowl like Lady Macbeth unable to get the blood off. And probably some of that water splashing on copy books. She's getting angry as well about that as well. Monk, I hate messy copy books, she's saying. I'm going to lock those copy books in a room. Not going to get rid of them. No, no. And that is the sad tale of Lady Hobbie and the curse of the black monk. That is very nice. Movie warning. It sounds like movies.

You think, you think she's a movie? She's a, well, she's a shadow. Yeah, she is a shadow and the movies are shadows. Yeah. Famously a shadows movie alert, movie warning. Wow. First movies of the season. First movie of the season. Let us toast to the first movie of the season. So that's the story of Lady Hobby and the Curse of the Black Monk. Would you like to

score that, James? Yes, yes I would. Would you like to score my tale? Well, my first category for you, and I'm not sure I'm making enough of the ghost really, but it's inverted ghost, is supernatural. Yeah, it's a good ghost. It's a good ghost. And it's a very pretty darn spooky. They call it the most haunted place in Berkshire, I think, even though it's only got one ghost. So she's obviously a very intense ghost. Wow. I think that's true. What about the curse? So there was a curse as well. Does the curse? Yeah. According

to David Nash Ford and nobody else. Maybe someone else. And I just haven't read the book. Mm hmm. That's, I mean, it is only two, so I could be a stickler and go with two. But. Wait, wait, wait. You're forgetting about the... Baphomet, Baphomet, Baphomet.

Yes. Baphomet. Templars worshipping the idolatrous heads of Baphomet. Baphomet. Who is French. Ayayaya. A French demon. Oh, Monsieur Baphomet, non, s'il vous plaît.

Ted, cat, Ted de Cheve. Is that right? The French? Is that the French word for goat? Well done for knowing that. It's so close to the word chef, That sounds bound to cause confusion in the kitchen. Yeah. I think, yeah. It was goat's cheese actually, specifically Chevrolet. I've just described someone with a head of four cheese, goat's cheese head. No, it's a lot. It's four, I'd say, because I think you've got three things, but that scary ghost is movie alert. Possibly a movie. Potential movie situation. Potential movie. Yeah. So four.

Turn back, listener. Yes. Movies are here. This is movie country. Second category, names. Yes, definitely. Loads of them. Okay. Wibbly hobbly. I did sort of put a spin on that one to make it a bit more entertaining as I

also did with Johnny chords. Yeah. But the hobbies I can well imagine if she wasn't evidently such a bad mother, that if they'd had a horse of the time, it would have been a hobby horse and it would have been a hobby hobby horse and they would have like pointed and had gone right, right, raise the right bowels, right, right. So hobbies hobby horse, right. That's probably why the kids didn't have any friends. Yeah. That's probably why the kids were such losers. There was also Hilaire Belloc making a brief appearance. Belloc. Also sounds like a-

That's the name of the baddie in Indiana Jones, right? Yeah. It definitely sounds like a demon or a villain. Bellocque. Bathomet. Bathomet. Bathomet. Bathmat. The goat headed Bathmat.

Yeah, I think that's very strong as well. And the name of the episode, the Curse of the Black One, you've spun a great name out of that. So I think that is also a strong four. Oh, thank you. Thank you very much. What that is also a strong for. Oh, thank you. Thank you very much. What's your third cat? My third category, James.

And this one's a bit clever. So get ready. Is history is written by the victors, brackets, not Victorias. Oh, yeah. It makes you think. Oh, it does make me think. Because the stories as we're telling them today have been shaped by the people who came afterwards who may have had agendas, James.

And I think we need to cut through the mainstream narrative. I think we know what gender that was. Oh, really good. Yes, the gender of the agenda. So yeah, all that stuff about the Templars worshipping our heads, that might be anti-Templar propaganda and all the stuff about Lady Lady Hobby being evil might just be because she could read or something. Anti-intelligent woman agenda.

It's a very much the anti-intelligent woman agenda. Cool. Yeah. No, that was as in that's a good category. Not yet. They're anti-intelligent women agendas are cool. I do not think that. Yeah.

I think it's a strong one. I think it's, it's gonna have to be a five. Oh, just to avoid embarrassment. Yeah. Not wishing to besmirch the name of Nash Ford. He's getting angry, James. David, calm yourself. I haven't even given a score yet. He's the only one who's got the, who's the source for that as well. The source for the may God have mercy on their souls. He does seem to be the only source as far as I can tell. I'm raising, I'm raising my hands as Bob was my witness.

I believe he's the, the only source. I don't know where he got it from. Right in or eat us with your car. Yeah. I think most people probably just go with rate review, subscribe, but eat us with your car is equally good. Yeah, I think most people probably just go with rate, review, subscribe, but eaters with your car is equally good. Yeah, it's an option. Does that bring us to the last category? It does indeed lead on to the final category, which is a fine turn of phrase. Yes, I was privy to the creation of this category, but let's let the listener in on what this might

mean. You know, like Shakespeare added lots of words and phrases to the English language. I like to think that here at Lawmen, we do the same thing. On the subject of gotta catch them all, a famous and popular catchphrase. Yes. In this episode, I think we've coined several idioms and axioms, which are bound to become just common parlance. That's Bob is my witness for one. And Bob was my witness.

Computers are looms. Just, it's just a good observation. Computers are looms, basically. You can't mail hummus, which you can use that in a literal situation, but you could also use it figuratively, you know, like when someone's trying to do something, but you know, essentially, you can't do that. You just, you just hold your hands up. You can't mail hummus. Yeah. Oh, he's mailing. He's trying to mail hummers over there. Women can do what they want. Just a good, just that is the official lawman opinion.

You invented that. Yeah. I invented the idea of that and eat me with your car. Finally. Great advice. If you, if you want to be in my car. Yeah. Okay.

Well, it's good. Is it, was it four? I think there were easily five or six there. I don't have time to count them now. Well, if it's six, it's bounce. Was it four? I think there were easily five or six there. I don't have time to count them now. Well, if it's six, it's bounce back Ludo rules. We do not play bounce back Ludo rules! We're playing bottle ships rules. Okay, then it's a five.

It's a good five. Yes! You sunk my bottle ship. It's got a ring to it. It has got a ring to it. Because you sound a bit like you're sinking underwater as you say it. It's really good. Nice.

So that was the Curse of the Black Monk. That was excellent cursing. And as God is my witness. Is there a way for people to get extras, bonuses, additional material, and off the top of my head, access to the Discord where they can chat with like-minded lore folks? It's patreon.com forward slash loremenpod. But thank you very much to all the people that are already supporting us there and thank you very much to Joe for editing this episode and thank you very much to you the listener for listening to it. There actually was Thunder earlier. Was there?

Is it that new Storm they've got now? Yes, it's one of those new Storms. They're updating Storms quicker than Apple iPhones. And this one's got a woman's name, which I think is great. Very progressive. Yeah, I was still waiting for Erwin, which I don't know if that's the right way of saying it. Yeah, you're supposed to sound really slightly disgusted by it, the way you said it there,

like Erwin. Yeah. Like Er, Wind. Right. Which one's this one now? Do we want to date the recording of the podcast? I don't even know which we're on now. One of the other Lord of the Rings characters?

Smeagol. Storm Smeagol. We've quickly exhausted the women in Lord of the Rings. Yep. That's that done. That's then.