Loremen Podcast - Loremen S6Ep27 - Banbury!

Episode Date: July 31, 2025

James takes Alasdair back to the Croydon of the Cotswolds™ - Banbury! - for a deep-dive into the origins, variations and possible meanings of the town's "famous" nursery rhyme. You know, the one with the rude horse and the lady with peculiarly positioned bells? Plus, James shares the tragic tale of a horse whose sat-nav led to a vicar's downfall. This episode was edited by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Joseph Burrows - Audio Editor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Join the LoreFolk at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠patreon.com/loremenpod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ko-fi.com/loremen⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Check the sweet, sweet merch here... ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.teepublic.com/stores/loremen-podcast?ref_id=24631⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ @loremenpod ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠youtube.com/loremenpodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.instagram.com/loremenpod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.facebook.com/loremenpod⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

No Frills delivers. Get groceries delivered to your door from No Frills with PC Express. Shop online and get $15 in PC Optimum Points on your first five orders. Shop now at nofrills.ca. Welcome to Lawmen, a podcast about local legends and obscure curiosities from days of yore. I'm James Shake Shaft. I'm Alistair Beckett-King. Hey Alistair, pack your bags, pack your bindle on a stick. Shall I just wrap up this large cheese and piece of bread in a big bowl? Yes.

Okay. Yes. In a spotty red and white handkerchief. Okay, done. Done. Ready. We're going to Banbury. Yes!

And we're returning! Finally, the Loreboys return to Banbury. There's a collection of Banbury tales. Have a Banbury cake while you're on the way, actually. Save a bit of space in your bindle for a Banbury cake. I'll nibble a Bambri. Oh, hi there, Alistair. Oh, hello, James. How's it going? It's all right. How's it going with you? I'm all right. I'm all right. I'm, I'm eager to cut to the chase because I'm, I've been

doing it. I'm trying to batch a bunch of episodes for this podcast and my other podcast, rural concerns. Ooh, ooh, another podcast. Yeah. He's a two podcast man. Hey, you're a minimum two podcast man. Yeah, that is true. I do have two podcasts as well. Eleanor and Alistair read that? Correct. Yes. It's wonderful fun. I'm using it actually as a good, cause it's you talking about.

Classic kids books that well, the kids books we grew up with at least, whether they are classics or not is to be decided by the podcast. I'm using them as a little way of just checking the content for my own kids. So I'm trying to get them to read like Treasure Island. So you did a Treasure Island one. We did Treasure Island, yes. And I just wanted to listen and check how much it was of the past. It's not as bad as you might think Treasure Island.

No, exactly. Similarly, if you listen to Rural Concerns, that contains lots of helpful advice, parenting wise. If you want to know about leaks, how you prepare leaks, that sort of thing. If you want to know about how to catch a drink driver, maybe your child will be interested in that. If you want to know how to dox a teenager, you can listen to Rural Concerns. Easily.

Yeah. Yes. Chris is very good at most of those things apart from the growing leaks one. But that's, I mean, that's not what we're talking about now. We're talking about folklore and Mr. Legends and all of that stuff. Oh yeah. And I've, I want to take us back Alistair to a little place called Banbury. Now we last talked about Banbury in series two.

The boys are going back to Banbury. The boys are returning to Banbury. The boys are back in Ban two. The boys are going back to Banbury. The boys are returning to Banbury. The boys are back in Banbury. It doesn't really have the right rhythm for that song. No, I guess it doesn't. I'm still excited. It came out this episode that the previous Banbury episode was January the 31st, 2019. Oh, how little we knew.

Oh my gosh. In 2019. What a time. What a time. What a time that was. And I rightfully described Banbury as the Croydon and the Cotswolds. And I'm sticking with that. Sticking with that judgment. So is this, is this Banbury Cross?

Yes. Ride a Cock Horse to Banbury Cross. Yes, exactly that Alistair. And that is what you said last time, because I listened to the episode to check that I wasn't doing the same story again. Good, because I haven't learned anything new about Banbury since then, obviously. But we mentioned that, but we didn't actually elaborate on it. That is a poem. That is from a poem which...

Is that a poem? Yeah, it's a nursery rhyme. It goes, ride a cockhorse to Banbury Cross to see a fine lady upon a white horse with rings on her fingers and bells on her toes. She will have music wherever she goes. Wherever she goes. I could remember some of that. Yeah, you did. There is a statue there of the lady on the horse. And that was unveiled by Princess Anne in 2005. Good. You know, I love Princess Anne trivia.

And I've got a few different sort of takes on that story. One in particular is from Oxfordshire Folk Tales by Kevan Mannering. Sorry, is his name being pronounced by the Welsh journalist from Dad's Army? Yes. Kevan Mannering. It's Kevin with an A instead of an I. So I presume that's, I assume it's pronounced, he's got a bit of a hit on it rather than just Kevin. Kevin. Kevin.

And he tells, he sort of retells quite a lot of the folklore of Oxfordshire in this and in the Bambury chapter, he talks of, he kind of tries to work out what the cross was that the fine lady was riding near. Oh yes. Because, or- Yeah, so is it like Charing Cross in England? No, it's a physical cross,

because there were three- I think Charing Cross used to be a physical cross, didn't it? It was it. I think that's where it got its name from, there was a cross in the road. Ah, well yes. Yes, it was then. There apparently were three. And presumably King's Cross.

Oh, I thought it was just really grumpy. It was named after Henry VIII. He was furious. Oh, he was in a mood. There were three crosses in Banbury. The High Cross, which is where important proclamations were made. The Bread Cross, which is where the bakers sold their wares. And the White Cross, which is where important proclamations were made. The Bread Cross, which is where the bakers sold their wares. And the White Cross, which I guess is where people did their racism. It doesn't say.

I think it was church stuff. But in 1600, the town worthies decided that the people of Banbury had got too Christian, so they pulled all the crosses down. Too Christian?bury had got too Christian. So they pulled all the crosses down. Too Christian? If anything, too Christian. Wow. Yeah, they pulled all the crosses down. There is another cross in there, which I think is, well, it's just in a roundabout.

And I think that is the Banbury cross. I'm not sure exactly when that got put back up, but I presume it wasn't that long after 1600. Because I guess you just need a focal point in a town in them days. You wouldn't have had a cost. Yes, exactly. So I've got a story from Civil War times. Strife is across the country. The English Civil War.

The English Civil War won. I do think our American listeners get confused. Yes, good point. Back in UK Civil War, English Civil War. The English Civil War won. I do think our American listeners get confused. Yes. Good point. Back in civil UK civil war, English civil war times, Bambury was a broadly roundhead place, but there were a few little pockets of, of Cavalier. That's the Kings lot. So this is me booing the Royalists. If anyone has managed to listen to this far into

our podcast without getting an idea of who's on whose side, Roundheads, Cromwell. Also boo though. Boo boo as well. Cavaliers, Charlie One, King. Royalists. Boo. Spoiler, Cromwell wins in the short term. Exactly. But then the Royalists win on penalties. Yes! There was a VAR. There was VAR. Is that when they do the playback? That's when they do the video thing.

Yeah. And like 10, 20 years later, someone comes and goes, yeah, we're just going to be, we're just going to get Kings back. Get that, get that old Kings son back. Yeah, let's get Kings back. I'm sick of no Kings. So there was a few different places. Apparently the Reindeer Inn, which is the oldest pub in Banbury, was quite an old pub,

was a pub at the time. And that was apparently Cromwell's base for a few different of his exploits, including the Battle of Edge Hill. But there was also a castle in Banbury, which was quite, which was a royalist bit of a royalist base. So you've got all different people there and Ooh, milling around. Yeah, trouble.

Anbury. On the 15th of September, 1645, a Reverend William Oldies was out and about on his horse. Was he an oldie, but a goodie? He was an oldie. I think he was a royalist. And I think that will become clear that he was a royalist from this story. It's quite difficult to research him because he's, I think he's a reverend and a doctor, but he's called the reverend William oldies. His son is called Dr.

William oldies and his grandson is just standard William oldies, but is an antiquarian and has the most stuff about him on the internet. Right. That is confusing. Yes. But the, the, we're going to call him Reverend for the purposes of this story. He was a vicar at the new college. He was loyal to the king.

And so he found it a little bit difficult knocking around Banbury because he's quite a, what's the opposite of Royalist? Parliamentarian. Quite the parliamentarian town. He had a vicarage in Adabourie, which is a little town like a couple of miles south of Bambourie. There's quite a few Berries around there, Bambourie and then there's also Grimsbury, which is now part of Bambourie.

Oh, I don't know if you know Banbury is in the news recently because it had a big coffee factory there for 60 years and it's closing down now. Oh, I missed that news. How could I have missed that? Well, you would know if you'd ever, well, up until now, if you'd ever been to Banbury, you would know it by the smell of coffee

because it genuinely did smell of coffee. So it made the whole city smell of coffee. Like they were trying to sell it. Is that what you do? You do coffee. I thought you did baked bread. A bit of bread really, I think is meant to be nice. But yeah, so Aldi's was going to try and find a garrison for some royalists.

So he was scouting out the area, but he needed to do it pretty subtly because there were a lot of roundheads, parliamentarians in the area. What the plan was, was he would meet up with his wife and child because they could travel around quite undisturbed because a wife and child's not going to get too much interest from soldiers. He would meet them at the appointed time and they had a little code and it was if there were other soldiers around, the wife would go past them and kind of work out whether they were royalists or parliamentarians, whether they were on his side or not.

Because as much as we think, like, oh, it's quite easy to tell, roundheads, they had the helmets, cavaliers, they had the haircuts. Are you telling me the haircut thing was not true? No, I think people just look like normal people. What? Yeah. So yeah, they had this plan. So if she saw Cavalier, if it turned out they were royalists, she would kind of wave and

greet them. And if it turned out they were parliamentarians, she wouldn't give a big wave. She'd just give a small acknowledgement. So he's hiding in a bush and he sees his wife and son appear and she passes the army people who are also approaching because they were kind of wise that something was going down. So they were kind of on the lookout for oldies. They're on the alert. Also, his mates that he's trying to find accommodation for are knocking around.

And it turned out as the wife rode past, she realized they were roundheads. So she didn't give a big wave, just a subtle little nod. And so he knew, right, he did not acknowledge his wife and child. He let them go past and he'd started to beat a hasty retreat. He was in a bush. So getting out of that bush was noisy and the soldiers heard him and they rode after him and they chased him down and they were chasing him and chasing him and he had a cunning plan. What he did was he got his wallet or his purse and he kind of chucked it out behind him to kind of distract them. And to be fair, it worked.

Like Mario Kart. A bit like Mario Kart, but instead of- Quite like Mario Kart, but then the parliamentarians got a zip. They went over those arrows and got faster. Is that what those are called? That's what I have always called them. And sure, it's not what they're called. I think we call them a boost in this house.

Maybe they are, but I've called them a zip. That's a good name for it. I might try and describe it. It's descriptive of, I suppose boost is equally descriptive. Yeah, but I think zip sounds funner. So what happened? Blue shell? Yeah, there was a big blue. Basically most of the army people, most of the cavalier, no, most of the roundheads did stop and try and pick up some of this cash, but one of them had real blue shell energy. He chased him on, he chased the doctor on. Now the doctor, on his way to Banbury, did go past his vicarage, but he was very keen to get all the way back to Banbury to warn the

soldiers on his side that he was basically bringing cavaliers behind him. Yeah. It's a flawed plan. I'll be honest. I better get there to warn them that I have got there. With soldiers in turn. With soldiers. As he passed the house, his obedient horse recognized the house and was like,

Oh, this is where we live. I'll stop now. No, no, obedient horse. He couldn't get it to move. And this is like a version of the Tesla that doesn't catch on fire trapping you inside. Yeah. But it's just a bit annoying. It's just, yeah, it's got an internet black spot outside your house.

So it just stops. Yeah. They, the enemy caught up with him and they shot him dead. Oh, what? I was not expecting quite such a... Yeah, he was murdered. ...brutal and tragic ending. He was murdered.

And apparently there is a tablet at New College, which is where he was the vicar, which, you know, honors his memory. I think his name was put in a bell or put on the side of a bell at Hadbury Church. That's very nice, I suppose. To memorialize him. But yeah, that's what happened to the poor guy with the very obedient horse. Ah, did the horse survive? Do we know?

It doesn't say. That's really what people want to know. I would assume that by now the horse has not survived. No, yeah, yeah, fair enough. But I, yeah, I don't know. I don't know the lifespan of a horse. Could be 260 years for all I know. I think it's probably about 40. That would be my guess. Can I just Google the world's oldest horse?

Yeah, what's the world's oldest horse? Oldest horse ever recorded was named Old Billy. So obviously the parent horse is new. They saw it coming. Yeah. Was born in 1760 and died in 1822. 62 years old. At that time as well, that's really old. Oh yes, but do we believe that they were keeping good birth records for horses in 1760?

Because a lot of the world's oldest people got away with it by just lying about when they were born in the past. Horses were probably more important than people in those days. So they probably would have. You could go see it. Billy's taxidermied head is on display at the Bedford Museum. Wow. In Bedford, in Bedfordshire. It's run by the Bedford Borough Council. There's surely, surely there is a Godfather joke there about a

horse's head in Bedfordshire. But, but what is it? I don't, yeah. Is it just some, a threat like every morning? It's a threat to the whole of Bedfordshire. The like, not librarian. What's the museum equivalent of a librarian? Curator.

The curator will come down and think that they've offended a Don. The mafia. A local Don. But Alistair, that obviously, that's not the most famous person on a horse in Banbury, the most famous person on a horse in Banbury is the old lady from the song, from the, from the nursery rhyme rather. Of course. from the nursery rhyme rather. And I just want to dig in to that in the style of one of them

AI generated podcasts that you can get to make nowadays. No, what? Wait, is this the real James Shake Shaft or have you been AI generated for the last few months? So what's in front of me here is a little poem. Yeah. So we've got the version that we all know, which is ride a cockhorse to Banbury Cross to see a fine lady upon a white horse, rings on her fingers and bells on her toes. Bells on toes. She will have music wherever she goes. That's not the original version.

The oldest. Has it been cleaned up? It's not. No, it's just. Where were the bells originally? Where the hell? It's from Tommy Thumb's Pretty Songbook, which is from 1744, which is ride a cockhorse to Banbury Cross to see what Tommy can buy. A penny white loaf, a penny white cake and a Tuppany apple pie.

Very good prices. Mmm. You won't get that in the costa. Not even these days, no. That didn't make sense. Oh, not even these days. No, that didn't make sense. No, not these days. There's other versions from Gamma Gertons Garland or the nursery Parnassus.

Gamma Gertons, is that like Grandma Gertons? Gamma Gertons Garland or the nursery Parnassus from 1784. Now in that one, it's not a fine lady, but an old woman and a version from 1790 in Tom Titt's song book, ride a cock horse to Banbury cross to see an old lady upon a white horse, a ring on her finger, a bonnet of straw, the strangest old woman that you ever saw. Oh, and I like the way he's made an effort to rhyme cross and horse correctly. Yeah, I think that's, that's a bit more of the sort of local. It's a bit more local voice.

Yeah. Yeah. So Alistair, first of all, what's the horse? What is a cock horse? As we posited in the previous version of this episode, should we be bleeping it? Sounds very scandalous. It could mean a high spirited horse or,ited horse or it could mean a particularly lively one. So cockhorse could also mean a whole horse.

Oh, like an entire horse. One that hasn't been an entire horse, yes. Yes. Okay, I mean, that's a little bit on the nose, name-wise. Or it could mean an extra horse. What an extra horse? A bonus horse. Right, a that's a little bit on the nose name-wise. Or it could mean an extra horse. What an extra horse? A bonus horse. Right.

A horse on a horse. A side horse. So if need an extra horse to pull your cart or carriage up a hill, but you wouldn't need it for the majority of the journey. So I guess it's kind of just brought it. I mean, I would presume people lived at the bottom of the hills with a spare horse and offered, and just offered their services. Like a side car and a motorbike.

So like 18th century Wallace and Gromit, Gromit would be on the Cock Horse. But also, but that would be helping to pull the motorbike as well somehow. Okay. Imagine maybe the bottom's pulled out and he's run along Fred Flintstone style. A Cock Horse also means a stride horse. So if you're a cock, so if you're a cock horse, you're a stride horse, you're on a horse. Right. And it also could be because of the, because of where it is, it's reasonably near to Stoney Stratford,

which is where the Cock Hotel is, which is the cock from A Cock and Bull Story. What? Do you know about the famous phrase? A cock and bull story. The phrase a cock and bull story. Yes, of course I know that phrase. And we've had many a cock and bull story on this podcast, eh James? Big time.

There is a folk etymology for the phrase cock and bull story. And it's that there were two pubs or inns in Stoney Stratford, which were staging posts for rival coach lines. I think the pubs are still here now. One's called the famous Cock Hotel and the other one is called the In Famous Bull. They've sort of done some fun. They've had a bit of fun. Oh, they're riffing.

They're riffing on the other one. And they date back, the Cock Hotel is supposed to go back to 1470 or something on that site since 1470. And the Bull is a bit more of a dubious history, definitely older than 1600. And yeah, those two, so these two inns were staging posts for rival coachlines on Whatling Street. On Whatling Street? Whatling Street?

Whatling Street is a very old road that goes all the way from Dover to Roxtor, Roxeter on the edge of Wales. So all from the Southeast of England to kind of Midwest of England, where it goes on to Wales. And that's like it goes on to Wales. And that goes back to Roman times. They reckon that the Bodica defeat happened on Watling Street at some point. It crosses the River Thames, possibly near Parliament. Obviously that was a while ago, so they're not too sure.

So, supposedly, that's where Cock and Bull's story comes from, but it actually doesn't, right? Well, it's just supposedly. We don't know where it does come from, but this was the story goes that locals who lived around Stoney Stratford relied on the passengers of the coaches for news, and they were told fanciful stories. And there was a rivalry between the people staying at the two ends as to who could come up with the most ridiculous outlandish story. And it was just a thing you did when you were there. And that turned into the Fraser Cock and Bull story. But we don't know, but it sounds cool.

I don't think that happened, but still it does sound good. As Wiki says, there's no reliable support for the Watling Street etymology of the phrase and it is disputed as folk etymology. And that was by Gary Martin. Gary disputed it. Yeah. I mean, he's gone with the obvious headline of a cock and bull story. Very good. Well done, Gary. The literal translation, Ducoc at La Anne is from rooster to jackass, which kind of just... Oh, so it's like the Rooster's lying to the donkey. Yeah.

And they wouldn't understand each other. So it would be any old nonsense kind of thing. But then that makes as much sense as Cock and Bull does in itself. So if the idea is that one animal telling another animal story isn't nonsense story, it could just spring up spontaneously. Yeah. Yeah. Like Armageddon and Deep Impact both coming out at the same time.

Yes, exactly. The Truman Show and EdTV. Yes. Ants and a Bug's Life. We could go on, but not too far because I think that's about it. Exact synchronicity. And sometimes the spheres align. So that's the story of the horse potentially.

A lot of explanations for what a cock horse might have been. But that's the story of the horse potentially. A lot of explanations for what a cockhorse might have been. But what about the lady? Who's the lady? Who is lady? What's a lady, James? This lady could be Godiva. And I remember when, because when we moved to the area and went to Bambri and I heard this rhyme, I kind of thought it had a Godiva vibe. But obviously, it doesn't mention anywhere that she's naked. It could have been a Godiva type thing. Right. I suppose she's clearly not wearing shoes. We know that much from the bells.

That's true. Or some people think it could be the queen of the Fay folk who's there to lure people to the fairy land because she has music, beautiful music. I'm not actually sure having bells on your toes would produce beautiful music. I think it would be annoying. Jingle, jingle, jingle, jingle. I don't even like having coins in my pocket. That bothers me. The chunk chunk chunk.

You don't like swaggering around town with jingling pockets? Big time. No, big time, no time, thanks. Big time, no time. I forgot about your popular catchphrase, big time, no time. Well, you won't for long because it's going to be sweeping the nation. Other people think it could have been... Drop the book.

James dropped a book there if you don't know what that sound was. Other people think it could have been Lizzy One, Elizabeth the First, Queen Elizabeth Origins. What would she be doing in Banbury with bells on her toes? Swanning about, swanning about. Jingling around. get back to work. Other people conjecture that it's a Fines lady and it is Celia Fines, who was related to the Lord Seancell family who were at Broughton Castle.

And she lived in, she's a fascinating lady. She lived in 1662 to 1741. She was 78. She was older than that horse. Toby So Wow, yeah, good age for a human or a horse. Alistair Especially at that time, she traveled the country alone on horseback. I say alone, she had staff. And she wrote lots of stuff down about her journeys around the country. And she, in fact, she published it in like 1702 when she was 40, kind of thinking like, Oh, I'm probably not going to go any more big journeys now. She lived for another 38 years.

Wow. But yeah, her book is fascinating. It was originally only sort of intended for her family, but there, if you can track them down, they're ahand account of someone traveling England in the late 1600s. And it kind of gives you an idea of local customs in the different areas, like different... She really sort of describes the different cuisines. People bake bread in different ways in the different places.

There's different industry in different towns. It was released in 1888 called Through England on a Side Saddle. So not Cock Horse. No, she was not a Cock Horse, no, actually that's a very good point. But I think that's an 1888 sexist kind of saying it. In those days, they really wanted women to slide easily off horses. But only for one side. She apparently counted Stonehenge's stones and she counted them. How many do you think there are Alistair?

Double figures? We're talking double figures I think. 21? 21? More? 48? 91. No way!

Are we including pebbles in that? She's only two off. There are officially 93. There's 93 stones. There's 93 stones. Yeah. Have you been? No, I've just seen it in the car with you.

There's a few, there's a few more like slightly out of the main circle, which are a little, you know, they trick you. So she probably missed those. She might have missed those or there might've been two were really obvious ones. But actually, as we know back then, Stonehenge was all fallen down and it was only put back up in like later times. She visited, she clambered over the rocks on Land's End and she visited Harrogate's Stinking Spore.

Stinking Spar. Oh, is it, is it sulfur? Is that what the spar stinks off? Yeah, there was some... Yes. Yes, there was. Yes, it did. So that's the spring water that we all readily drink, we yuppies, today.

Yes. And this Celia Fines, she is a distant great-great-great-great aunt of Rafe Fines, of the actor Rafe Fines. Of the actor. I was going to say there aren't that many Fienneses. I was going to say. Yeah, off Shakespeare. Off of Shakespeare. Off of Shakespeare and stuff. So there you go. That's a little bit of a Banbury bonus. Wow, I like the sound of her. I don't think she is the woman from the song because she's

famous for going lots of different places. So you're not likely to run into her if you go to Banbury. That's a very good point. Yeah. So you're not likely to run into her if you go to Banbury. That's a very good point. Yeah. If you hang around that cross. But I'm glad she made a cameo in this story. So that's the tales there. Well, first of all, thank you very much for an very informative episode about Banbury. Ever so Banbury. So when I next think of Banbury, which will probably be never, I'll think of all this

stuff. Yeah. Well, shall we do the classic first category? Okay, let's do it. Well, I'm going to go with supernatural because I think it just simply needs to be got and got. Was there anything supernatural? Maybe she's a fairy. That was the closest we got to supernatural. Maybe. Maybe she's a fairy. And you know I really like fairies. But whenever I do a fairy story for you, you give it quite a bad score.

Well. Because it isn't spooky and it doesn't have a ghost. So as a ghost-free story, I don't think I can go higher than a two. And that's generous. I really, I can already read the letters we're going to receive for that. Yeah. All right then. All right then. I think that's generous. I really, I can already read the letters we're going to receive for that. Yeah. All right then. All right then. I think that's fair. I think two is quite lucky. Then I will go with my second category, which is naming. All right. So what names did we have?

Tommy Thumb's Pretty Songbook. Oh yes. And Tom Tits. Tom Tits, similar one. Yes. Gamma Gertons Garland. I forgot about Gamma Gingrich Gingertons. Gamma Gertons Garland. Or the Nursery Parnassus. The Nursery Parnassus. Wow.

A Cock Horse. We did have many, many a Cock Horse. The sports centre in Bambi is called the Spiceball Park. Wow. For when you just want a vague idea of how much spice there is. Just give me a Spice Ballpark figure. Just roughly. Was that named during Spice Mania, do you think? It was pre-Spice Takeover.

They preempted it. Will Barron It was called the Spice Ballpark before Spice Girls became the phenomenon they are today. Alistair And the reason I know that for an absolute fact is because at primary school, which was in a pre-Spice Girl landscape, if you can imagine, when I was at primary school... Will Barron This was before two had become one, listener. Alist. Yes, exactly. When they were still two separates.

Our lives were not spiced up. No, no, no one had zig a zig. That was a madman's dream. And that was all their songs. Yeah, those are all the songs. We can't think of any more Spice Girls songs. There's one called Mama. Yeah, I didn't really like that one. It's a ballad.

To a mom, to their own mom. Are they all, are they all, are they all the same mom? I didn't really like that one. It was a ballad. To a mum, to their own mum. Are they all the same mum? I don't know. Are they like bees, the Spice Girls? Really good question, but I don't think we can explore it now. They've been born with different skills, like bees. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. You've got the honey bee. The protector.

The baby bee. Yep. The scary bee. Wasp. And the posh bee. Yep. The scary bee. Wasp. And the posh bee. Yeah. The queen. The queen. And maybe she's the next queen.

Yeah. Has anyone looked into whether the Spice Girls are bees? Has anyone fed, has anyone fed Victoria Beckham Royal Jelly? Probably. Yes. It's probably a thing, isn't it? David probably has. It's probably like a health thing.

I say David Beckham as if I know him well. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's the like a health thing. I say David Beckham as if I know him well. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's the same character for David. He would. If I know David Beckham, yeah. I was reminded of a, that reminds me of that Tales of the Unexpected, is it? Or- Yes, it will be like that.

Tales of the Unexpected with Dimethy West, Samuel West's dad. But all of the Spice Girls are becoming bees now? Yeah. Or is he eating the Spice Girls? Anyway. West, Samuel West's dad. But, but all of the spice girls are becoming bees now. Yeah. Or is he eating the spice girls? Anyway, the reason I know that it predates them is because at primary school, we had to come up with jingles for businesses. I think we went on a day trip to Banbury and one of the girls in my class made a

jingle for Spiceball Park. And I still remember it. Well, wow. She was a very talented jingle writer. It's Spiceball fun for all Spiceball has got it all. I can't tell if it's scoring high for names or whether I've just been one round by the Spiceball jingle, but it feels like it's got it all. So I'm going to say four, because obviously it doesn't have it all. Not everything can be in Spiceball Park. Yeah. It can't contain all knowledge.

No. Can Spiceball Park create a Spiceball Bomber it can't move? Great question. Yes. I'm going to say, I'm going to say four. It's just a Spiceball Park figure. So it's four. Thank you.

Oh, we're in the right spice ballpark. And then next category, origin stories, colon origins. And that's colon the punctuation. Could be, depends. Depends what gets me the most points. Probably that one. Yeah. So explain this sounds like a great category.

Origin story, colon origins. Well, it's because we just had so many origins stories in here, didn't we? There was the Banbury horse lady. Many, many origin stories for her. Could be Godiva, could be Elizabeth the First, could be a fairy queen Celia Fiennes, who was the origin of the travelogue in a way, and related to the origin of Rafe Fein's and Joseph Fein's. And here, oh, Fein's, the new one, the origin of the poems come from Tommy Thumb's and Tom Tick. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I think that's pretty impressive. I think you've been a little bit cheeky including the poems, but I'm going to ignore that and give it a five.

Because this origin story, colon origins. I think you'd be a little bit cheeky, including the poems, but I'm going to ignore that and give it a five. Yes. Because this origin story, colon origins. Plus the cock and bull story origin. Oh yes. That was another origin story in there. The cock horse came from the cock and bull potentially. Yes. Wait, I don't think it did, but yes, yes. I'm going to pretend it did for the purposes of giving it five.

Yes. Wonderful. Your sidebar origin story. You remember Adabri came from the, I forgot to mention this when we did the story earlier, Adabri where the vicar, vicar's old vicarage was where the horse stopped. The horse was like, oh we're home. That's where John Craven's from. Oh, John Craven from Newsround.

John Craven's Newsround and John Craven's Countryfile. And also in the 50s, there lived Anthony Burgess of Anthony Burgess's Newsround and Anthony Burgess's Countryfile. Yeah, ultra-violent. Anthony Burgess's ultra-violent Newsround. Vidi well, my droos! On CIT Vidi. Well, it's five out of five. Origin stories, colon origins.

Yes. Wonderful. And then, in which case, Boyed by that, I'm going straight into my final category, knocked into a cockhorse. Excellent category. Can I raise a point of order before we move on? Yes. You said Boyed up by that. Do Americans say boo-eed up? Eww. I know. It's disgusting, isn't it? It just occurred to me. Because they pronounce boy, the floating nautical fellow, the bell, buoy.

Buoy. So do they say, you know, he was buoyed up? I don't know. Maybe they don't say it. Or maybe they think it's boyed like a boy. Maybe. Just cheered up like a little boy, like a happy little sort of Tom Tit fellow. In London to be boyed off is quite a bad thing. That means like someone's taken the mickey out of you. Is that like pied off? Yeah, I guess so.

I'm hearing pied off and mugged off quite a lot. I've never heard boyed off. Oh, you started watching Love Island. I have met somebody who has watched it. Yeah. I've heard the phrase. Yeah, you have. Love Island. I have met somebody who has watched it. Yeah. I've heard the phrase. Yeah, you have.

I've watched it. It's always, it's forever on in the background. Right. Yes. We used to have browned off for annoyed, didn't we? Yes. Cheesed off. Cheesed.

Really working on a sandwich there, I think. Bit of brown bread, bit of cheese. A boy. A boy. And we do, we don't mean a child. Maybe a pine. Yes. We're not condoning cannibalism.

No. We are imagining a big round, slightly sea stained, buoy. Americans, please. You're pronouncing it like David Bowie. Yes, exactly. I'm not sure if it, is it Bowie or Bowie? I don't know. He didn't even know himself.

It's pronounced boy. This is a play on the phrase knocked into a cocked hat for when something is better than something else. Yes. Because you had more origins for the phrase cock horse than you could knock a horse at. Yes. And unfortunately that guy, the reverend, he was kind of knocked. Yeah.

So that was kind of like getting knocked, I guess. That's a severe knock. Very bad. If you were to have been killed, you would take that as a severe knock. It would be a blow. Yeah. Exactly. So.

Oh, it's five out of five. It's five out of five. Yeah, you did a lot of research there, James. We had a lot of possible origins for the phrase cock-a-wuss. Yeah. I think I've ruined my internet history for some time. Wake up and smell the Banbury, James. What a story that was. Lovely work. Thank you very much. And I'm sure the people of Banbury are very appreciative of that. If we do still have any listeners after I said bad things about Banbury before, there is a bunch of stuff that will no doubt be in the bonus episode so if you join us at patreon.com forward slash lawmen pod you will get access to that and access to the Law Folk Discord where you can meet like-minded law folk. Thank you Alistair, for listening to it. And thank you, you, the listener, for listening to it. Thank you for thanking me for listening to it.

War is very confusing and it's very difficult to tell what side people are on because army clothes are reasonably generic. They're just sort of camouflaged. But then you can't tell who's in the army and who works at Games Workshop. Or who's a bush. Or who is actually a bush. Yeah. It turns out your neighbour was a bush all along.