Loremen Podcast - Loremen S7Ep23 - Spooky Pubs with Amy Matthews

Episode Date: July 2, 2026

Phew, it's warm out, innit? Thankfully, the hilarious Amy Matthews has brought us a cask-chilled bevy of terrifying taverns and pub poltergeists. From Scotland to Cornwall (via the Midlands), prepare for a legendary lock-in with the lorelads. Amy Matthews is at the Edinburgh Fringe and on tour with her new show ‘Definitions of Toast’. Dates and tickets info here. Watch Amy’s special ‘I Feel Like I’m Made of Spiders’ on ITVX. Buy Amy’s vinyl ‘Commute With The Foxes’ on Monkey Barrel Records. Follow Amy on Instagram @amyfmatthews Edited by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Laurence Hisee⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Join the LoreFolk at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠patreon.com/loremenpod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ko-fi.com/loremen⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Check the sweet, sweet merch here... ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.teepublic.com/stores/loremen-podcast?ref_id=24631⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ @loremenpod ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠youtube.com/loremenpodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.instagram.com/loremenpod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.facebook.com/loremenpod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Wayfair, every style, every home. Welcome to Lawmen, a podcast about local legends and obscure curiosities from Days of Yore. I'm James Shankshaft. I'm Alastair Beckett King. And Alistair, we've got a guest this week. We've got a guest deputy law person. Wouldn't be Amy Matthews, would it? It blooming is.

And they're bringing us a bunch of tales of pubs. That are haunted. Pubs. Haunted pubs with Amy Matthews. Spooky inns. Mm. Yes. Frightening taverns.

Yeah, terrifying. Horrible hostelries. Yeah, I was going to say hostelries, but I wasn't sure if the H was pronounced. Hey there James. I'm doing the stage slash podcast whisper. Yep. You know what it means? Yes, you are.

I know what it means. It's a secret guest. It's a secret guest. And in fact, I'm just going to bring them out right now. Yes, I'm doing it. He's returning friend of the show, deputy law person, Amy Matthews. Friend of the deputy returning law person, Amy Matthews. Hello.

Oh, it's so nice to be here. How are you guys? Are you well? Very well, thank you. Yeah. We got some lovely. feedback from your last episode. And I don't say that to every guest. It was such a joy. It was such a joy. It was so nice to talk about Sarah Moore and all of her

witchy goings-ons. And also, I tell you what, this week, and the co-op. And do you know, I didn't realize actually until now there's a sort of, we're sidestepping topically, aren't we? Because famously, Sarah Moore has a pub named after her in my, in my last episode, the witchy Sarah Moore. And, And there's a little teaser for what we might be getting into today. Fantastic little teaser. Very nice. Was that episode, I was trying to remember, was that the one, James,

where you said that St Mary the Virgin Church sounded like something that you would say in school, like a cruel nickname? Yeah, I think I've said that plenty of times. It's not the only church name. We never repeat a joke on this podcast. Surely if you said it, you said it once. Just if anyone has forgotten some of the other church name, jibes that I have. There's obviously St Mary the Virgin and Church of the Assumption, which I think is all churches.

And there's one where they're just like, all saints. Yeah, it is very good. What should I say all saints? Yeah, et al church. Yeah. The best of the Beatles. That wasn't a personal dig on Alistair though, was it? That et al church.

Oh, no. No, no. No, it was actually me. I worked on all those psychological studies and all that science. You did all of them. Yeah, I didn't get a lot of credit. Just right in the end. You and Steven Spielberg's ET? Yes. Yeah. Just everywhere. There was the two of us. When you, when you need help, you phone him and me. And he tells me. He passes it on, yeah. Yeah, he just passes it on. We're in a WhatsApp group. I'd like to see that We'd probably be talking about disclosure gay Disclosure gay

Sorry I said disclosure gay instead of Disclosure Day And I talked right over you Please continue Was it disclosure day? Disclosure Day is the new Spielberg film I don't know anything about But it's got aliens in it It's got aliens in it

I've not seen it but it's got aliens It's got aliens It's another alien one It's an alien film Someone An relation to me was telling me that they were talking to someone about that film and I think that person had thought that film was a documentary.

That's a shame? Yeah. Isn't it? Because they must be spoiled by all real documentaries because the angles and stuff and you don't see people's reaction and then the thing, this one does with the Stephen Spielberg film. I was a little film's called Joe Callister.

I think your internet's frozen. Sorry, sorry, I'll just laugh now and you can edit it in. I'll show me reacting to the film. I'll show me reacting to the laugh. Yep. Yes, here we go. Very good. Very good.

Very good. But, Amy, you are obviously a comedian because of all the funniness. You're also, I think also obviously, a accomplished podcast host. Yeah. Well, it's been my absolute pleasure to host the English Heritage podcast. So it's been really, really brilliant. We get like a different topic. every week we start with an object and we use that as our focal point and then we sort of zoom

out so we start with the object and then we zoom out into the sort of geographical and temporal place that we can situate it in and then we sort of look at where that sits in in history more broadly and it's so funny because like some weeks I'll get the brief through and we really do cover everything in anything it's such a you know a huge mix of bits and bobs that we cover and some weeks I'll get the brief through and I'll be like right this week we're looking at the wallpaper in a nuclear bunker and I think okay that that might take some some liberal enthusiasm from me and then 10 minutes into the conversation you speak to someone who's dedicated their life to studying the aesthetics of nuclear wallpaper and you're suddenly enthralled by it it's

just like that contagious curiosity thing it's so so great I'm already curious about the nuclear In a weird way, it's like everything is interesting when you look. Like a couple of episodes ago, I mentioned, I mentioned Hord's Dairyman, which is a magazine about the dairy. And I've received emails and messages from Americans who remember reading it growing up in the 50s and things. I just wanted something that we stumbled upon completely by chance. It sounded so, that I brought up because it sounded so dull. And people had a weird emotional attachment to it. Honestly, like just the most kind of niche.

weird or seemingly incidental topic or object. The second you've got anybody talking about it who has a genuine enthusiasm for it, it is contagious. There's just something so lovely about hearing someone wax lyrical about the nichest of things. So, yeah, I wonder if your listenership could relate to that. No, we're very mainstreaming. You really hope so. I think also very smart to, to say.

start with the object and zoom out rather than to sort of say, ancient Rome, the palace of Nero, his pants. Because if you did it that way around, it would feel like an anti-climax. But to start on, it's just a pair of pants, and then we zoom out to ancient Rome. Wow. Maybe. Oh, those were Nero's pants. Well, maybe we should do an episode of the podcast that starts with the zooming,

where we start with an object and then zoom out. And then if you play it backwards, it also works in the same way and get Christopher Nolan to present. it. Yes. That would be nice for us, wouldn't it? There we go. We can all do film jokes.

James knows a lot about the difficulties of structuring a podcast inspired by Christopher Nolan. Yes. Did you do that? I had a go. I think what happened was James James learned the phrase

smash cut and didn't really learn what it meant and he's got carried away. I understand completely. Yeah, I got knocked down and then I got up again, I think. Is that smash cut? No.

That's a smash. mouth deep cut. It's not even a deep cut. It's a shallow cut. Oh, very good. That's a shallow cut. The shallowest of cuts, actually. That's barely a graze. But what I, actually, I have a quick question about the nuclear bunker wallpaper. Just first up, is it a nuclear bunker for people to shelter from nuclear war or was it where them, one of them looking out for nuclear planes bunkers? I believe it was a Cold War research bunker. Oh. Yeah. So I very, very, Yes, in that case, the wallpaper would need to be very not distracting, whereas if you're basically trying to live out a half-life in there,

you need it to be very intricate and interesting so that you can, you know, with slocos on it or something. And my goodness, thank God that the Cold War wasn't in the early 2000s, otherwise it would have had to have had a horrible accent wall. But luckily, it was just a pretty consistent wallpaper. A feature bunker. A feature. Can you picture it, the wallpaper that I mean when I say, like,

Lawrence Llewell and Bowen's accent wall? Yes, definitely. He's got a sponge involved. There's a sponge. Scumbling. He might have scumbled. Yeah, there's some sort of fleur-de-lis situations. Yeah, I can... Definitely.

Maybe some... Maybe some velour or, like, velveteen relief texture. It was a different time, lads. It was a different time. It was. It was. Even if the people in that bunker might have wished to change rooms

as they waited for the fallout to dissipate. I didn't realize that was an actual episode because I thought you meant a bunker where people stored the wallpaper, like Churchill's wallpaper bunker where he was just like, well, that's spare wallpaper. It's just his spare wallpaper. Yeah.

Well, they've got all the seeds. Yeah, exactly. We need to be able to read it. We need to be able to redo all the wallpapers. Exactly, yeah. Yeah, we've got the Superman one from James's bedroom. But weirdly, we're not here to talk about wallpaper. Sadly not.

There's a whole episode dedicated to that on a different podcast. People should check that out. But, Amy, it's not all wallpapers. What have you brung to us today? Well, as I say, the last time I was here, we spoke about Sarah Moore, the witchy lady, from Leon C, my hometown. And we spoke about how there was a pub named after her.

The now deceased Sarah Moore Pub. She's, the pub itself has now gone along with, along with its namesake. Wow. And we've got, my gosh, maybe the podcast is the curse. Oh, gosh. Well, hopefully not, because I thought I'd bring some more pubs, but specifically some spooky pub stories. Yes, please.

Everyone loves a ghost story when they've had a couple of pints or, you know, you're chilling in it. We've got such a wealth of incredible old pubs in the UK, and they just sit very nicely with a spooky story. And so many of them are rumoured to be haunted, have weird and wonderful paranormal characters. So I thought we could take a little tour of some of the characters and hauntings, certainly in places that I've lived or lived near. and then just some good juicy stories as well. And of course, any and all bits and bobs that you've managed to find yourselves. Lovely stuff.

Thank you very much. I do love a good haunted pub or ghost pub story. Yeah, there's something about just elderly lying men who've had a drink. Yes, agreed. It's just something about that where a ghost story comes out eventually. 100%.

Either of you experienced any spooky pubs yourselves? Well, my local claims to have a couple of ghosts. It claims to have one table where regularly a pint will just get knocked off the table. But I think that's because there's a loose floorboard underneath it. And also it's meant to have a ghost in its upstairs room of a little old lady. And there's like a picture which is meant to be the little old lady who used to be the landlady of the pub. And I think you just offer her a cup of tea and she leaves you alone. That's a very reasonable ghost.

There's another one which has a well, like it's got a covering for a well. No, it's got a clear covering over a well in the loo, which is quite spooky to look down because this pub was also used to be the jail back in the olden times when the Azizers would come by. Big mistake to put the pub and the jail together. You're asking for trouble there, surely. That's just, you know, efficiency. Yeah, exactly. I have the girl in trouble.

Close the commute. You're straight in jail. Yes. It's a lock in. And that's also meant to be haunted by a leper. And I've spoken to members of staff that are like, yeah, pretty sure there's something going on. Someone sent me a video, in fact, of the upstairs. And there was some sort of creaky, spooky noise that happened.

Thanks for that video. What did you make of the creaky, spooky noise? Did you, did you, could you explain it all? way? Well, it happened, the source could have been off camera. So it could have been someone going to, going to walk in and then seeing someone was filming and then ducking back again, because that does happen. Fair enough. My bedroom, actually, where I'm recording today, I think, is haunted by some seagulls. Oh, no. Yeah. Have you kidding? I used to, I used to work near the Old Star Inn in, in York,

which I'm sure I've mentioned, because it's famously quite old. And I was just looking to see if it had any ghosts, and I've learned that it used to be called. the star in, which makes sense now that I read it. Yes. And apparently it's haunted by a civil war soldier, English Civil War. But I suppose the spookiest thing I think about it is that it's in the novel Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell. Ah, Susanna Clark's. That's so funny.

I've got the ladies of Grace of you. Just in front of me here. Lovely. Yeah, there I go. And I was reading it out. work when I was working in a shop just over the road from the old stone. I was like, oh, that's near where I am, which is not haunting. It's not exactly spooky, but it is a connection to magic of a sort, isn't it? That is very cool. I like that a lot. That's great. So, do you want me to launch in with some...

Yeah, what you got? Well, so let's start with Edinburgh, because I just feel like we, you know, Edinburgh is, is it supposed to be the most haunted city? Certainly, there's just so much going on. Maybe York is the most haunted in England, but I'm sure York would dispute that. I'm sure. Is this a lot of ghosts in Edinburgh? Like per square metre? Maybe. I don't know what the metric is for most haunted.

It's the TV show Most Haunted, I guess. How many episodes have been set there? Well, we've of course got Banshee Labyrinth in Edinburgh, which is supposed to be one of the most haunted pubs in certainly in Scotland. and it's what it says on the tin it is a labyrinth anyone who hasn't been it is these sort of

Edinburgh is built over two levels we've got the vaults and then we've got the city above ground so to speak and it's the pub itself Banchi Labyrinth is over the both floors so to speak both surfaces

so it's like within the South Bridge is that right? It is it is and you go sort of down the stairs and it's got a karaoke room a cinema room a back room, two different bar areas. It's a real, like, rabbit warren and is very, very spooky in vibes, brackets general.

But also, apparently there is a, there's supposed to be a ghost that haunts the women's bathroom, which is obviously creepy as all hell. And I don't think it's a sort of moaning myrtle ghost. I think it's a sort of trickster kind of sloth. creepy ghost. I don't know if they have a name, not that I'm aware of, but that is one of the infamous ghosts of Banchi Labyrinth. And apart, I think there have been rumors of people feeling very watched in the bathroom as well, which is never nice in a bathroom, is it? You know,

the yuggle? That's one of the last places you'd like to be feeling like you're being watched. Totally. The Jens has one of those trough urinals that's in an L-shaped. So I suppose that affords a little bit of, if it's not so busy, one gentleman can face a certain way and his compatriot can just sort of turn at 90 degrees. Yes. And who's to say what they're up to? Oh, a lovely bit of Tetris. Yes.

Yes. That's nice. Indeed. And people who have worked there have said there's been lots of different stories about lots of different figures, apparitions, phenomena. The classic is glasses and bottles being moved on shelves that aren't slanted, but they move. Frequent reports of people walking backwards and forwards in the corner of their eye. It's commonly the corner of the eye, isn't it? That's where the ghosts and ghoul seem to live.

Definitely, yes, yes. Also a little girl, apparently, has been cited there. And crucially, if the phone rings, sometimes they will hear a little girl's voice say, hello. And that's all. That's all they can hear. Batteries draining in their walkie-talkies. Classic kids. Classic kids, honestly.

They will get through batteries like you would not believe. Absolutely. So we've got lots and lots of different phenomena in Banchi Labyrinth. and crucially, lots of spooky artwork on the walls, which obviously helps. Yeah, lots of stickers for bands that you might like if you're into sort of metal and that sort of thing. Totally. I think in this case, it's not so much sort of old men sitting at a bar. It's goths.

And the ghosts probably love goths. It's got and men in cargo pants. Lots of cargo pants and beards. You know, you know the vibe? Yeah. Many a beard. So they attract the ghost, do you think? Are they attracted to the ghosts?

Yeah, you know how nettles and dock leaves grow beside each other? Yes. I think ghosts and the knees of metal fans are sort of comorbidities. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Neighbors. So if you feel scared by a ghost look at the knees and that kind of brings you down. Yeah, that's the most human thing, this knee. I think so.

I think it is. Exactly. If you were to faint, then maybe he would have like a sort of a key chain that actually sort of loops down quite low and you could sort of grab that and pull yourself back up. It's true. Have either of you been to Banshee Labyrinth? I think so. I think I probably have performed there at the other number of festival. I did a whole run there back in 2013, I think. Was that men who stare at jokes? It was the men who stare at jokes, yeah. Great name.

Yes. Ian Lane came up with the name. Very, very good. And did you experience anything weird and wonderful, Alistair? Well, it was my first fringe, so it was all weird and it was all wonderful. Yes. That's so nice. That's very lovely. No, we all got stressed out and hated each other by the end.

That's not true. But it's slightly true. Yeah. We've all got Edinburgh fringe ghosts. Yeah. Of a different nature. Yeah. No, there are scars, at least, but not necessarily ghosts.

When you described it as having a karaoke room, two bars, and that is outside the month of August, where it has a venue, a venue, a venue, a venue. It's 14 different venues in there, I believe. And those walls sweat. Yes. Boy, oh boy. Are you doing Edinburgh? I am doing Edinburgh this year.

I am. I'm going to be a different vault underground. So I will be, monkey barrel have taken over the Tron, which I think is actually now called O'Neils. It's changed its name again. Another O'Neils. Another O'Neill's. But it's on Blair Street or Hunter Square in an old town, and I will be in the basement there.

There's just something that feels right about doing the fringe in a basement. You know, it's just, it feels natural and good. I've also done a run there. That's the one that's the pub that used to be called Detron, which was confusing because it was next to the Kirk, which is also called Detron, which is also a venue in August. So it's actually convenient that it's now called O'Neils, even though I still call it the Tron.

And it is sort of just, I think it's just known as the Tron, even though it's no longer, yeah, officially called that. But I will, yeah, quite appropriately actually on topic, I will be the ghost in the basement. I will be haunting this pub every day of August at 3pm. Her 3pm, she appears. Yeah. That is somewhere you do want to feel like people are watching you

when you're on stage at the other fridge. Yeah, crucially, as many people who could watch. me there would be as good. Yeah, that would be really good stuff. What's the show called? The show is cool. That was very lovely, guys. Just as we rehearsed.

It was, the show is called definitions of toast. Oh. Yeah, a bit of fun. Definitions of to. But the audience, so if the audience don't want to see a ghost and would rather have a piece of toast,

the show also caters to them. It does indeed. That is lovely stuff. It does indeed. It's something for everyone. actually. Something for everyone, living or dead. Have you been listening to you now? That's what I call music albums, Alistair. You're very up to date on your references.

Yeah. I've got one now. That's what I call music from 1999. You don't need anymore. No, that's it. I had a question. I had a question. It might have been a, I don't think it was about whether Tron was affiliated with the Disney franchise Tron. Was it? It surely isn't connected to the movie. No, it was about. It was, have either of you ever had a toast sandwich? Yes.

By which I mean two pieces of bread with a piece of toast in the middle. In which case, no, I'd like to tell you as the answer. I'm sorry. Forgive me, I did the absolutely crazy thing of thinking you meant two pieces of toast comprising the sandwich. A piece of bread in the middle. What madness? What madness is this? This is the opposite of the friends' moist.

maker. It's a dry maker. Yes. I guess so, yes. The enemy's dry maker. You want a bit of cr- I mean, there'd be butter on the toast. But this is an old recipe, isn't it? The toast sandwich. I think it's not a Victorian thing from the days when toast was presumably a recent invention. People realise that you could keep going. You hadn't necessarily finished after you cooked bread. Well, then it's parallel thought. A second thing.

Did you invent a toast sandwich? I thought I'd invented the toast sandwich. Maybe that's why I've heard about it. But maybe it's parallel thought with me and the Victorians. That's fascinating. Well, within my family, when we, you know, like, you know, that really gorgeous when you just have like white, thick white bread and the perfect amount of toastiness and a layer of butter. That in my family is known as juicy toast. Nice. Very nice. Because you bite into it and it's juicy. It is juicy. So that is forever known within the Matthews universe, the Matthews universe. It's so close. Yes. Yeah. then it's juicy toast. If you have slavoured with butter, white bread, that is juicy toast. Juicy toast for breakfast or juicy toast after an illness. It can cure everything, I believe.

Yeah. And I'm about to enjoy the juiciest toast of all, correcting James. Because, of course, it's a Victorian sandwich. You didn't invent it. This is Beaton, has it in her book of household management from 1861. How dare you, sir? I'm going to have my least favourite meal, which is my... words with a pudding of humble pie.

Very strong. Very strong. I don't know if this is etymology corner because I don't know if I'm right. But there's humble pie and there's crow pie, which both mean the same thing. We say humble pie and I think Americans say crow pie. But the humble in humble pie I think means crow or humble sometimes means crow. Does it? Really?

I was hoping one of you could back me up. I'm not aware of it, but I love that. No, sorry, I met Mrs. Beeson, I assumed. Well, if I'm right or wrong about that, just to send us to the telegram. They think it's a grain of salt and close to your vest, so I'm not having it. Well, I was very annoyed about grain of salt, James.

I looked this up just the other day. Did you know that a grain is a measurement of salt? Yeah, and it's from Latin, and it's like gran as saltus or something. So a grain of salt is, it's a specific amount of salt, which is about the amount that you would pinch between your fingers. So it is the same amount as a pinch of salt. Because I've been visualising, when Americans say take it with a grain of salt.

It's like, how do you explain me to pick up a grain of salt? With a bear of sort of Barbie tweezers. It's absurd. But they mean a pinch of salt. But the Latin phrase is grain of salt, sadly. Oh, that's good to know. Again, this is good stuff. This is really good stuff.

I just happened to have looked that up the other day, after spending years thinking grain of salt with a dana, Oh, the droll of a grain of salt. You wouldn't even taste a grain of salt. This is really, yeah, very strong. Very, very strong. I'm going to stay within Scotland for the next one, actually, but go slightly further afield than Edinburgh.

So I'm going to go north to the Drovers Inn. Now, are we familiar with the Drovers Inn? Not at all. No. So it's, it isn't, it's what it says on the tin. It's an old Drovers Inn. And it is full to the, the brim with taxidler. What's a drover? Sorry. A drover, I believe, I believe. Is that someone who drove?

Who drove? It's not a past tense of driver. It's not, but I love the idea. Is it someone who drives animals? Cheap cattle? It's livestock. You can't drive an animal, Alistair. Well, speaking of, speaking of our drovers, there was a very famous drover who arrived at the drovers in called Angus. And he turned up. It does check out. Yeah, yeah. And he turned up and he brought with him his livestock,

had had a very long day, had a couple of wines, couple of pints, couple of ribinas. Couple of wines. He's not going to drink and drove. He's not going to drink and drove. He doesn't dare drink and drove. And because he wouldn't dare drink and drove,

he passed out from all of his drinking. and some very cheeky little thieves who had I think been ploughing him full of wine and beer and ribina decided it would be the perfect opportunity to steal his livestock so when Angus woke up and his he couldn't find his the equivalent of not being able to find his keys and phone he couldn't find his cows and sheep

yeah you can't ring up the bank and cancel a cow You can't cancel a cow. He just stood up, patted down his pockets. Like, I'm sure I had my sheep in here somewhere. And basically he was so furious. He was trying to find them to seek his revenge. Then when he passed out again, they murdered him. What?

And he is said to roam the drovers in seeking revenge. So you can still to this day, stay at the drover. in but is said to be haunted by the ghost of Angus and other folks driving who had been driving, droving and passing through. Also, there was a family who were heading towards the drovers in to stop off after trekking through the landscape many, many, many years ago. And they took a wrong turn and froze to death. And apparently, sometimes you can look out over the fields and landscape from the drovers in. And there's a sudden drop in temperature.

And then you see a group, a family, a group of people walking along in the distance and then they disappear. Ooh. So spooky indoors, spooky outdoors. Yeah. I've got to say, when you introduced the rustlers as cheeky, they got more than cheeky when they murdered him, I think. I think they went beyond the limits of cheeky. Into mischief. Yeah, absolutely into mischief.

that is taking the bounce too far. And do you know what, even if you have no desire to ghost hunt in the drovers inn, it is a pretty spooky place full stop in that they have genuinely taxidermy in every single room. They've got a taxidermy bear. They've got a two-headed goat. They've got... That's too many head. It's too many heads.

There's one too many heads. There's one too many, yeah. they've got all sorts of they've got I think fennick foxes and various sort of guinea fowl and there's just lots and lots of taxidermy so it's spooky full stop

wow I think I might need about ten minutes for this but in my head I'm workshopping some sort of joke about drinking and droving and then should have got a taxidermy because that's got the word taxi in it so it feels like it should be there very very good you can assemble like these It's not good.

This is just, you know, it's just some pieces of Lego. Sometimes it's enough just to present the ingredients. Yes, exactly. And let the listeners do their own, make their own dinner. Make their own toast sandwich. Yeah, yeah. Your word plays in the oven. Absolutely right.

Absolutely right. So yes, we have lots of good spookies for drovers. Very spooky. Very cheeky boys. Yeah. I'm now going to, I think, toddle from Scotland all the way down to Cornwall

Now in I lived in Falmouth for a little while There's lots of spooky pubs in Falmouth and in Cornwall generally I'll give a special shout up to the chain locker Which is apparently haunted by Many many many spectral sailors And seafarers

There have been sightings of all sorts of Privateers, Pirates and Smugglers which is it's all the good stuff, isn't it? And also a poltergeist, some poltergeist activity there as well. Some polter guys. Some polter guys.

Can you believe? So, yeah, that's my Cornwall shout out. Have you guys had any pub time in Cornwall? Yes, I think I've been to the Penzance. Yeah. The Penzance.

There's that pub that's got like a sort of a, mannequin of a sailor sticking into the roof. I've seen that. Is that the dolphin? Or is that the Admiral Benbo? I think it's the Admiral Benbo, is it? Yes.

Yeah, that's meant to be quite haunted, I believe. I didn't see anything, though. But I heard that it was haunted. Fair enough. I love, well, we love a spooky. I think there's something particularly enchanting about a sort of a nautical spooky.

You know? I think there's that new, is it shipwreck, something, no, what's the new TV series that everyone's very much enjoying? Widows Bay. Oh, yes. Yes. Have you guys seen that? I love Widows Bay. Yes, we're big Bayheads. Big Bayheads.

It's Widows Bay, but it's about A-E. Yes, that's what we are. We're Widows Bayes. Very nice. Very good stuff. I am, yeah, I'm yet to watch it. Oh, I highly recommend. It's lovely, it's written by Kate Dippold, created by Kate Dippold, I should say,

who is one of the Parks in Rec writers. And also, if you ever saw the tweet of the person who misjudged a Halloween party and went dressed as the Babadook when nobody else was dressed up, that's her. Katie DiPold, did I say Kate or Katie? I don't know. You never know where an anecdote is going to go when it starts with the person who misjudged a Halloween party. But luckily, this one worked out.

But you can see in essentially I think it was Katie Dippold's spec script that got her a job on Parks and Rec. Oh, yeah. It was the basic concept for Widows Bay, which obviously never became an episode of Parks and Rec. But sort of government employee has to deal with the supernatural is, you know, eventually it's turned into a show, which I think is essentially jaws except that you're on the mayor's side, which is a very nice idea that you kind of, you want the town to stay open. even though loads of weird stuff is happening. Very beautifully shot as well. That's great. And it's got,

so it's a comedy and a horror. Or like, you know, spooky. Yeah. Yes. I love that as well because it's, I mean, they,

comedy and horror have the same beats, don't they? It's a building of tension and a release. Yeah, so I think having, when they're sort of done well, when that's done well side by side,

it's a beautiful sort of, the alchemy of those two tones coming together is a really lovely thing. Yes. And similarly, when some Edinburgh, shows go badly, you very much cross over from the comedy side to pure horror. Absolutely.

You know what? That gives me a lovely lead in, actually, to my next example, because I've only ever been to Nottingham to gig. I've not been there for leisure or pleasure. It's always been work. And any leisure or pleasure there has been completely incidental. But it's got one of the most beautiful. beautiful and apparently oldest pub in England.

Ye oldie trip to Jerusalem. Oh yes. Have you seen it? It's got to be hard to give people directions. It is. To a pub called a trip to the Jerusalem. It is. I read about that recently about the name of that pub

because I found a book on my shelf which is called, I need to find out the exact name, but it's about pub signs. It's called, insignias. And it's from the 50, the 1950s, and it's just a collection of pub names and signs and the origins and meanings for it. And they talk about ye oldy trip to Jerusalem, because obviously that was there in the 50s.

And apparently the trip in it is not, is an archaic meaning that means like a stop or like a little, like a break. And it's four people going on the pit. pilgrimage, let's have a little trip to, yeah, a little break on the way. So it's like a traveller's rest, but specifically for one journey. Yes. And also, presumably, like, quite early on in that journey. Like, you want to get, at least get to France, I'd say, before you have your first break. A sort of pilgrim's punctuation point.

Yes, yes. A little pause. It's just services, basically. Yeah, basically. it's a jazzed up tea bay that's beautiful that is oh my gosh that's so good I wonder if the food

the oldy trip to Jerusalem is anywhere near as impressive we'll never know we will see we will see but they it's I wanted to add it I think we get very swept up in a lot of ghosts who like to terrorise people and cause fear

but apparently the oldy trip to Jerusalem is haunted by a lovely former landlord, a pub landlord, whose name is George Ward, who went by Yorkie to his friends and locals. Nice. And Yorkie loved his job so much that they think he didn't want to leave even when he shuffled off his mortal coil. So he just shuffles around the pub still, playing pranks and being very sort of jovial and jokey with anyone who will engage with him. So a nice sort of a playful spirit.

from someone who loved their job so much he wouldn't leave. That's good. That's nice that they enjoyed their job. I hope they did enjoy their job. And it wasn't that they just sort of not realized that they're not dead. Oh, God, yeah. Cleaning up these glasses again. Some genuine cheekiness at least.

Yeah, that's true. Some actual cheekiness. That is cheek. Yeah, that is true. Just playing little jokes on people. It's true. And, yeah, that's in Nottingham. And I mean, there obviously, yeah, there's, that's not a spooky anecdote in Nottingham, but I have died in Nottingham around the corner.

But also in the same building, in the same pub, there's also a cursed coin upstairs in a cabinet. And it's rumoured that if you touch it, you get a generational curse. So it's behind, it's behind glass where it's safe and it can't hurt anyone. So Yorkie is the only spirit that you should engage within those four walls. Wow. So we've got lovely, we've got, where have we been? We've been to Edinburgh. We've been to the, I think the drovers is in the Cairng, if not the Cairngorms.

It's near Lougham. It's near Lougham. There we go. And we've been to Nottingham. Cornwall. We've been to Cornwall. I say I will return to my homestead of Essex. So I grew up near South End on Sea.

in Leoncy, as we have spoken about in my previous episode. And there's an old hotel that now only functions as a pub, bar and event suite, called the Royal Hotel. And in the basement of the Royal Hotel is an absinthe bar called Dr. Legba's, which is fun. And in fact, an ex-partner of mine used to work there. And every single member of staff has a story about being downed. there on their own and seeing shadows figures and movements move up and down the stairs and glasses fly off the shelves on their own that it's been captured on CCTV and doors that are locked from the opposite side have been seen to open from the inside again

all caught on CCTV and everybody who works there has got a spooky story about being down in that basement has the fact that it's also an absinthe bar got anything to do with that we will never know who am i to say but it's supposed to be haunted by um a sort of gray lady figure an absolute classic of the genre of that is absolute classic absolutely classic speaking of gray ladies i'm also going to introduce grady's absolutely paula grades um i'm also going to introduce um we've got gray ladies but we've also got blue nuns and ladies in red blue nuns Not a 70s drink. Blue nuns and baby shams.

Oh my gosh, imagine. That would be great, wouldn't it? I think we should do a sort of a Cluedo rewrite where it's just classic ghost. So we'd have like, yeah, a grey lady, a lady in red, a blue nun. Colonels, there's always some civil war. The little boy in blue, isn't there?

Yeah, we had Colonel Meats, didn't we, James, in a previous in the Lollingstone episode. So we got a colonel. There's lots of old... Mr. Chicken. Mr. Chicken. Well, yeah. It was the ghost.

Mr. Chicken was haunted. He was the haunting. Mr. Chicken was haunted by a ghost called Mr. Man. Right. Tale is old as time. That's extraordinary. Well, the blue nun and the Lady in Red are said to haunt the druid's head in Brighton. But only specifically, the Lady in Red only shows face on Sundays.

So she keeps a sketch. which I quite like. And I was at one of my favorite, you know, we get lots of moving glasses, we get lots of noise phenomena and things happening at the corners of people's eyes. But one of the things I really liked about this one is apparently it's quite common to see glass or mirrors missed up.

And I quite like the idea of them sort of going, and try and maybe to like sort of try and write a little message. I don't think they get as far as writing a message, but they do do a big breathe. Yeah. Wow. That's pretty darn spooky. Just misting up their mirrors. Yeah. Also, I mean, we're on the subject of naming pubs.

Do you guys know what you guys would call your pub? If you had to open a pub tomorrow. I've got two options, yeah. Talk to you. Do you know what? I know when I'm around my people when that is like in the front pocket, you know? That's ready to go. One is related to the pub game, which I don't know if you know about, it's a driving game.

Where when you were with a bunch of people, ideally a family usually in the car, youngest goes first you get the amount of legs on whatever is the pub. And then it goes around. So, for example, coaching horses, you're scoring big. Quaysen. You are quids in because horses, plural, minimum two. That's eight legs. Coaches got to have a driver.

That's minimum 10 legs. If the picture on there features more people, you're racking up points there and there and there. And if you're on a journey. You would be on the leg of a journey, wouldn't you? So there's a bonus leg. That's a good. Metaphysical leg. That's, well, because it's very difficult to get odd amount of legs. I ended up with one solitary point because my pub was the Wellington.

And I posited that you couldn't have a Wellington without a leg. Very good. Very good. Sometimes you get three horseshoes, but I've been knocked back for trying to get three points for that. Because they're just like, it's just the shoes. Yeah. But if you get a fish, you lose all your points. And we decided if you got a mermaid or merman, you would lose half your points because they're half fish.

That's good stuff. But with that in mind, I would call mine the millipede and trout. Surreal. Oh, it giveth and it taketh away. Very good. It's going to cause such an argument in the car. That's fantastic. A provocative sign.

And the second one was the cocky dolphin, just because I like the name. Yeah, that's good. The cocky dolphin is good. I think I've got that. It sounds to me, though, like it would be, it would be, it would. have gone gastro, don't you think? Yeah, maybe. It wouldn't be serving the local community anymore. No.

No, absolutely not. You've ruined it, James. There'd be a barata and a Ramesco sauce on that menu. No, scotch eggs just loose on the bar. All I wanted was a toast sandwich and they don't have it on the menu. All I wanted was some straightforward Victorian fair. That is a lost art, by the way. The bar snack on the bar, so like, I'm not talking your gaudil olives or your, you

your fancy cashew nuts or whatever. Biscuits for the dog? Yeah, just like some stuff on the, like the best. Highbury vaults is very good for that in Bristol. They have pickled eggs, like jars of pickled eggs. So do, does the salt horse in Old Town in Edinburgh. They do Bloody Mary pickled eggs. Bloody Mary.

Very, very good. Very nice. But yeah, a good bar snack is a lost art. It's a beautiful thing. I went a couple of years ago. I think it's still there because I think I went there at Chris. Christmas there's there was a pub and it had like a just a just in essence they have like a small oven like a little mini oven on the bar just to keep the pies warm oh nice what about you amy

what would your pub be well I think I I think I landed on something by accident very recently actually I got there was a photo taken of me and my friend whilst we were camping and I'm toasting something over a fire and with like a sort of a very long crooked branch and I've got a slight hunch about me and she's beside me wrapped in a blanket but it's sort of like around her

head like an old woman and I said it looks like a sort of an old crone and old mother Hubbard and the framing of this photo looks like the imagery for a for a pub sign

you know like when you get sort of like accidental Renaissance painting we did accidentally pub sign. Nice. And I decided actually the Cronan Hubbard would be a really,

really good country pub name, I think. So I think it would have to but we'd get an oil rendition of that image. Absolutely. And it would be the Cronan Hubbard. That's lovely, yeah.

Four legs as well, so I'm all for it. Smashing. Very good, yeah. Beautiful stuff. Beautiful stuff. Unless you were cooking fish of any kind in which case. Yes, arguments ensue.

Okay. Nothing that sensible. Nice. The mallow and twig would be nice actually as well. That's gone gastro. That's a gastro parbo if ever I've heard it, the mallow and twig. It sounds a bit sort of fancy Heston Blum mentality. It does.

I don't put marshmallows in food. For sure. For sure. Shall we score? Let's score. Those were fine tales. Thank you, Amy. They were.

We will require your judgment now, Alistair. I'm on Amy's side because I, I like pubs most whereas I hate pubs so that's perfect Okay category one naming Some good names

Yes The trip to Jerusalem Great name Ye oldie The oldie Yes The old trip to Jerusalem The old star in

All the pub names were great All of the pub names Banshee Banshee Yes of course Banshee You cannot And Alistair

Amie put across her own pub name, the Cronan Hubbard, are you going to mark a guest down? I'm going to throw in Dr. Legba's there as well. I mean, that's true. Legba? Dr. Legba, the absinthe bar,

and of course the king's ass. Who could forget the king's ass? I do like that one, yeah. Well, we have had to bleep that. I don't think so. I don't know. I was saying house every time. Yeah, we were saying Hasse.

We were saying King's House. Otherwise it sounds much worse. Yeah, it does sound a lot worse, especially when I said you couldn't say that about the Queen. Oh dear. Yes, Dr. Legg, which makes me think of Dr. Oatka. Is he related? Is he another presumably Nancy Walker?

Is that, can I not say that about Dr. Oatka? Is that, is that? I don't know if, was he brought out on Operation Paperclip because of his pizza knowledge? I think that was it. Fair enough. Okay, Dr. Urtka may not have actually been an Nazi, but it doesn't make the pizzas good. Yes.

That's my last word on the matter. Okay, yeah, I suppose it's got to be fine. It's got to be fine. I'm not happy about it. I don't like coming out so high, but what can they do? That's good stuff. Category two. The second.

The second. Supernatural. What's the second category then? We're going to go for Supernatural. Now, Pub Ghosts. Oh, it's just been Walter. War ghosts. It's been pretty, pretty damn spooky. You've got ghosts in the lounge. You've got ghosts in the saloon. You've got a ghost in the nook. You've got a ghost in the karaoke room,

probably. That is true. A ghost in the cinema room. Yes. Outdoor ghosts, indoor ghosts. Yeah, a ghost that can be seen outdoors while you yourself are indoors, which actually is the coziest way to see a ghost. Yes. Lovely. Yeah, what can I do? I mean, I feel like, I feel like it's going to be another five. James, is it? I think, can I allow it. Allow it. All right. This is good stuff, guys.

I feel like I'm letting the podcast down by just letting these fives go so easily. But I think it's five out of five. Because it's just so many ghosts. It's many ghosts. It's many, many ghosts. It's multi, many ghosts. Which language was that, Italian, Japanese? Yeah, probably.

Yeah. And so, category the third. What's the third? category. Last orders, I reckon. Now, the third category, Shrek the third, is last orders. Last orders. Okay, break this one down for me because I'm not a pub fellow. Well, when I suggested this category, I forgot that it was called last rights. So I kind of became confused and thought there would be a clearer link between the afterlife slash death. around in when that happens, James.

Yeah, they're not digging the bell and it's like, all right, okay. I mean, there might be a bell tolling, but that would be purely for atmosphere. Not for last orders at the grave. Hmm. But, come on, it kind of feels right, right?

Yeah, I'm not hugely, having dished out a couple of hot fives. I'm just not convinced by it kind of feels right, you know. I think that's fair, actually. We should have gone with Shrex Because there's a fifth Shrek now

Yeah, it's fine, Shrex I'd be giving you another five right now But it is a two A two for last orders Totally bad Which is not even enough for a round Considering the three of us It's true

It's true, I'll take it And I'll share a pint with one of you Oh, thank you So, final category The final category is we are the cheeky boys you are the cheeky ghouls and it has to be said like that it has to be said like you're sort of singing and talking

yes this is life absolutely this is life not just this is life touch my bum this specifically this is life this is living anything else isn't life this you might think you're living no oh dear so

it's almost none of us Apart from Lemberd OPEC, almost none of us have lived. Has lived, yeah. Almost none of us have touched a cheeky girl's bum. Speak for yourself. I believe one of the cheeky girls works in a car dealership. Really? And if you were to, yeah, I mean, you shouldn't be doing that.

No, she's touching bumpers. Yeah. That's not living. No, no, indeed. Does she actually work in a car dealership? Good for her. Going around touching car dealers, bum's criminal. It's literally criminal.

It is illegal to do. that. It'd be weird if there was a law specifically forbidding that, though. Yeah, that's true. That is true. But great great final category, I think we can agree. Yes. A fine final category. Yeah, absolutely. Well, yeah, there's two cheeky boys

and there's two cheeky ghoul. There's so many cheeky ghoul. But there were actually a lot of cheeky boys and girls, and ghosts, I should say. Yeah, there's toilet spying. There's toilet spying. There's a bit of cheeky murdering of Men and livestock. Murdering and rustling.

Very cheeky. That guy's ass got touched. The driver. His ass was probably rustled. Oh, yes. Presumably he was driving a donkey then. Many things. Yes.

There's Shrek again. Shrek again. Yeah. Yorkie, who's the playful landlord, of course. Very cheeky man. Pretty cheeky. Yeah. Strong, strong but Brexit vibes.

I have to say for somebody who's not only a pub landlord, but he's also dead. Yeah. And doesn't want to give up his job for somebody else. He didn't want to leave. That is true. That is true for him. He wanted to remain.

He was one of the top remainers, yeah. Leave did not mean leave in his case. You're right. He's a complex character and it was wrong for me to reduce him to a stereotype. Five out of five. Yes. By way of apology to Yorkie. Beautiful.

Wonderful. Thank you very much. And thank you very much for those bevy of tales, Amy. You're so welcome. What a tree. Yeah, lovely bit of bevy, bevy pub lingo there. Fantastic wordplay there, James. Yeah.

So, Amy, you are doing Edinburgh this year, the year 2026. Yeah, crucially, in a pub basement. So you must come along. Yes, I will be at Monkey Barrel the Tron slash O'Neils, depending on. on what you call it, every day except Wednesdays for the whole of August at 3pm. And that's 2026.

And if you're not going to be up in August, in Edinburgh in August, that's okay because in autumn, 26, I will be traipsing all around the UK to various venues, nearish you. So I will be taking that show, definitions of toast.

One of which, of course, is juicy toast. That's a wonderful definition. But, yeah, so it's going to be a lovely busy year. I'll come and haunt a basement or theatre near you. Nice one. Thank you very much. And have people remember from your last appearance, you got a vinyl out? I got a vinyl as well, yeah. I forgot about your vintage, your proper vintage vinyl.

So I've got, my last show got turned into a, um, of a vinyl soundscape. So I recorded the show as an immersive soundscape. So it doesn't have an audience. It has a, it's like, you know, when you listen to like a radio play and you can hear the atmospherics, I've done that with a comedy show. It's like if I talk about turtles hatching,

you can hear them hatching and all of that kind of thing. So it's, and if you don't have a vinyl, that's okay. There's an MP3 download that you can get either independently or what lots of people have done is they've bought the vinyl that comes with an MP3 download, and then just use the vinyl as artwork or a frisbee or a plate or I won't tell anyone you use as you see fit wonderful thank you very much amy and have a wonderful time in Edinburgh I hope you see a ghost me too I'll let you guys know I'll keep you posted if I have any spooky goings on you will be the first to know about it we must we must hear yes absolutely thanks guys that's gorgeous

That was a really fun episode. There are a few bonus bits that you can access if you join us on Patreon.com forward slash lawmen pod. Definitely a few choice offcuts there. If you join that, you can also join the Discord. Yeah, which I have added bespoke lawmen emojis to... I saw that. I was well impressed. As of this week, you can reply Quas or five out of five.

Nice. Or Christmas pig. Giving us a nice review. That's always good. Yeah, that's free. And it really does help. or bullying someone into downloading a podcast on their phone

just to run a buzz in the street. They don't have to listen to it. They just need to download every episode. Yes, five stars. Don't really bully people. Don't really do it to people in strangers in the street, thanks. We're not doctors.

Come on. Just before we carry on recording it, I hear a squeaky noise. Is it just me hearing that squeaky noise? Occasionally. No, it's like a... I don't know. I'll...

I have heard seagulls. It might be my goals. Which I think... Maybe the goals. It might be the sound of seagulls. Fair enough. I've got goals. I mean, it sounds lovely.

And the solution is probably just to layer seagulls across the whole edit. Yes.