Loremen Podcast - S3 Ep11: Loremen S3 Ep11 - The Devil and Jeremiah Stone

Episode Date: March 5, 2020

James brings in an extraordinary tale of betrayal, backstabbing and the Devil himself. He also lobs a bunch of civil war stories directly into your ears. Which musical instruments can Satan play? Why does Warwick market stink? How big is TOO big for a shoe? Please write in to tell us your favourite devilish pseudonyms. Old Scratch? Old Nick? Old Scratchy Nick? Let us know on the socials. Ayoade Warning: James does a Richard Ayoade impression for about the ninth time this series. @loremenpod www.instagram.com/loremenpod www.facebook.com/loremenpod @JamesShakeshaft | @MisterABK

Welcome to Lawman, a podcast about local legends and obscure curiosities from days of yore. I'm James Shakeshaft. And I'm Alistair Beckett-King. Oh, and today we've got a real treat. It's called The Devil and Jeremiah Stone. The Devil and Jeremiah Stone? The Devil and Jeremiah Stone? It sounds like a, I don't know, a western. I think it sounds like one of those 70s folk horror films. Oh yeah, that's a good, yes.

And there'd be like some topless ladies in it. Oh yes, definitely. Watch that with your uncle. You said that as though that was a phrase, like a how's your father sort of thing. Watch that with your uncle. Yeah, edit that bit out. like a how's your father sort of thing what's that with your uncle yeah i did that better this story alistair yes called jeremiah stone and the devil

you really raised your eyes as if to say beat that yeah yeah i did and jeremiah stone and the devil jeremiah stone and the devil the name of my student band was it just you and one other guy yeah i was the devil oh yeah of course couldn't play any instruments what would the devil what would the devil well the devil plays rock and roll famously as well he plays the fiddle yeah he plays the fiddle really yeah like devil went down to georgia no someone went down to georgia and then you know you play the competition with the devil to see who can play the violin best oh yeah yeah i thought you taught that guy how to play guitar oh yeah he taught robert johnson how to play guitar he's a yeah. He taught Robert Johnson how to play guitar.

He's a mighty instrumentalist. Of course he is. Yeah. Except the bass. And it would be a skeleton on bass, wouldn't it? Sort of like boom, boom, boom, boom. Was that a double bass or an electric bass? No, it was a double bass.

Yeah, it was maybe a double bass. Okay. Yeah. No, if it were a double bass, I would have done a kind of skeleton funk. Like I said, a... Can you slap if you've got just bones? It's risky. You can do it five times.

You could do that slide thing, though, I guess. Slide guitar if you're a skeleton. Very easy. You don't need to get a bottle. No grazing. So what's the story? This is from the Civil War of England, the English Civil War, at the time of England, the English Civil War,

at the time of recording the first English Civil War. Oh, very satirical. That was a little look as well I did to say. Satire. Yeah, I'm moving into satire now. Oh, I like it. So, Jeremiah Stone was a corporal of the Dragoons. Oh, Captain of the Dragons.

Yes. So, they were a military... Were they like a cross-dressing version of the Dragoons. Oh, Captain of the Dragons. Yes. So they were a military... Were they like a cross-dressing version of the goons? No! The word dragoon, apparently, is named after the handgun that they carried, which was a French name for dragon. So dragoons are just dragons.

It is just dragon said, weirdly. Yeah. Said in a sort of mocking french tone i guess the next village along from my village in durham was called dragonville no yeah that's what it's called was it renamed for game of thrones it's been called that the whole time but all there is is like a outlet and a big tesco extra there's no dragon there's no pot of gold uh i think to use this technical name is potto gold-gold. I'm so sorry. An Irish dragon.

Yeah. Have you seen Leprechauns with Dragons? Oh, yeah. It's the green. That's really racist, isn't it? Yeah. You can't tell two different fantasy creatures apart. Yeah, because they're the same colour.

Well, it's either the gun or they're named... It was something like German or Dutch for to carry. It's called like troggen or something like that or trogoon or something. And they think it might be something to do with that because they were on horseback. And they were kind of like a sort of budget version of the cavalry. They were like infantry on a horse as opposed to gentry on a horse. What they do is they ride up to the battle and then get off and fight. So Jeremiah Stone, he was dragooning in the Battle of

Edge Hill, which was in the Civil War. It's Warwickshire. This is from a book Ghosts of Warwickshire. That's a very familiar cover there, James. It's the same cover of all the other books. It's the same as Ghosts of Oxfordshire and Ghosts of Derbyshire.

It's a complete scam. They think you're never going to go to a different county and realise that they're pulling a fast one. It's still the wrong shape that the skeleton in the hooded robe is pointing to. That's outrageous. But this one's got a different background colour. The other ones were sort of purpley. Oh.

And this is a blue, a sky blue. Oh, how respectful of Ghost ghosts of Warwickshire. That must be just like the only bit of clip art of ghost. To say, I need the idea of a county and a ghost. A ghost pointing at a map. Yeah. Hey, if it ain't broke. So yeah, this happened during the Battle of Edgehill,

Civil War, 1642. Battle of Edgehill has got a lot of spooks and specters um associated with it which i've earmarked to do another time that's just like a little there's some spooky stuff to do with the battle of edgehill so edgehill's in warwickshire it's not too far from my sort of hometown and whatnot so there's a lot of civil war stuff around my hometown because oxford was the base of the king during the civil war oh yeah which which charles yeah first yes at the time of recording um john hamden came from tame do you know who he is no he was i don't know exactly the story, but he was someone... He lived in a den of ham.

He was something to do with the roundheads. He protested against some sort of tax or something like that in Parliament. And it was one of the things that led to the Civil War, this guy, John Hamden. Good for him. I feel very torn because aesthetically, I'm a cavalier because I've got long, sort of flowing locks. But politically, I'm a parliamentarian. I think we should have killed... I'm glad theyier because I've got long sort of flowing locks. But politically, I'm a parliamentarian. I think we should have killed... I'm glad they killed the king. Should have kept killing them.

Keep making them just to kill them, but they didn't. But the other side of it is that Oliver Cromwell was just... He was just the worst. Yeah. Like, if Oliver Cromwell had just been not a complete misery

who banned dancing and Christmas and parties and fun. We could have been the first republic in the world. Possibly. I haven't checked. We could have been the best republic in the world. We could have been Great Britain. At the time of recording, we could have made Britain great.

We could have made Britain great for the first time. For the first time. But we didn't. Because Oliver Cromwell just had to be... Too much of a grump. Apparently he liked practical jokes, though. Really? It doesn't fit in with the rest of his personality,

but he was a big practical joker. Was that the Christmas thing? Was it a practical joke that got out of hand? Was it like he gearing up to do the big sort of reveal? And then they killed him. But, yeah. Oh, yeah, and he was like, I haven't really cast a Christmas joke.

Oh, really? Puritanism was a gag. So, the Civil War. So, Civil War connections around the area. Oxford, base of the King. John Hamden from Tame died in Tame.

There's... That's the slogan of people from Tame. From Tame, die in Tame. There was a pub in Tame called the King's Head and during the Civil War thing it was a Republican town.

Really? Yes, because of John Hamden. Oh, yeah, of course, yeah. And a cavalier was hanged from the sign outside the King's Head. And they realised they should probably change the name as that. And it's now called the Nag's Head. Oh, great. Don't know if that's a pun on Oliver Cromwell being a grump.

A bit annoying. A bit annoying, a bit much. Are you dancing? Stop that dancing. He's played by Richard O'Haddy as well. Or Ken Livingstone, I'm not sure. I never know. And last Civil War connection,

Ashmolean Museum in Oxford has John Higgs' Big Shoe. My other student band name, John Higgs'iggs's big shoe isn't that what they were trying to find at the cern accelerator well it's made out of a thousand pieces of leather i knew it was going to be big it was a big shoe thousand pieces of leather yeah so what he was john higgs uh he was from dinton which is around sort of Buckinghamshire area. And he was the clerk to Judge Main, who was one of the judges who passed sentence on Charles I. Oh, right. And after the restoration, John Higgs became a recluse

and he moved out of his house into a cave. I was hoping you were going to say into a shoe. Into a big shoe. He moved out of his house into a cave. And he became a beggar, but he only asked for scraps of leather and he would nail them to his clothes and shoes. Right. And he apparently kept three bottles slung around his waist,

one with strong beer, one with small beer and one with milk. So it was milk, beer, beer and one with milk so it was milk beer bit and presumably around the corner chocolate was made and rumor and the rumor was that he was one of the executioners of the king because i think no one actually knows who though who they are were so so the idea i guess is that this is his sort of penance yes so how big was the shoe i don't know i've not been to see it and it's just one shoe it's only one of the shoes, one of his shoes. Oh, there was a second shoe. Yeah, which I guess was also big.

Hmm. But this one had over a thousand pieces of leather. But they could be very small. Hmm. Yeah, John Higgs' big shoe. That was a little sidebar about Civil War memorabilia. Whoa, whoa, whoa. You're telling me that John Higgs' big shoe isn't the main feature? feature no this isn't like one of them jokes where the big shoe comes into play

at the end of the joke um he's been murdered with just a massive footprint on his back you like the suspects back to the battle of edge hill jeremiah stone a dragoon mounted infantry he gets injured in the battle his leg is wounded and he falls to the ground amongst the bodies of the dead and dying. And the battle finishes. Fun fact. Fun fact. Most fun facts aren't fun. It had better be fun considering we're on a battlefield and everyone's dying.

It was a very bitter cold that night after the battle. And it meant that more people survived because the frost kind of sealed the wounds. They must have been laughing and so much of that fun fact. They must have been just rolling around, side-splitting slightly less than they would have been. Yes. They must have just been absolutely tickled pink

about the fact that their wounds froze shut how lucky are we and slightly less chance of infection um so yeah so jeremiah stone he was wounded in his leg and that didn't stop him from raiding the bodies of the people in the battlefield many of whom we know are still alive just watching him do it. Yep, and he put it all in a leather bag, and then he made his way to Warwick, and he got all the way to the anchor inn in Warwick. It's jingling, like when you've got lots of change in your pocket.

I hate that. Also, I don't like a wallet that has a coin purse function in it. Why is that? I don't know, but I'm very much on the anti-coins-in-a-wallet brigade. The coin section in my wallet, I mean, this is going to be top content, so make sure in editing to keep this bit in. The coin pocket in my old wallet broke, so I spent a year with no coins in my wallet,

and it was nightmarish. Really? Yeah, and I've just got a new wallet made of cork and now i can put coins in it again how many though that's like a normal size just a handful just yeah just two or three a few pound coins downside though i use contactless payments all the time doesn't work through cork doesn't it that's why you don't make wallets out of wood. Oh. I feel like an idiot. Wooden wallet. My mahogany wallet.

Carting it around train stations. Yeah. And your ebony checkbook holder. How many checks do you think I write? None. Absolutely none. It's too difficult. It's made of wood.

So, yeah, he got to the anchor inn. He rested up there. His plan was to rest up for a few days, get his strength back, and then get out of there and start spending his ill-gotten gains. You're making it rain mice. But imagining that these little rings, because it was jewellery and bits of gold. Picking off into people's eyes and faces.

And he kept his leather bag under his pillow. And then the morning came and his leg was worse it obviously thawed out at this point and he couldn't even get out of bed but the landlady was very kind to him and she dressed his wound and offered to look after him and he was so grateful and he tied his leather bag up really tightly and he said to her, can you put this somewhere safe? Maybe in a security cupboard. I want it back as soon as I'm well and I'll pay you very well for looking after me and looking after my special leather sack.

So she took it, promised to keep it safe, told her husband, they opened the bag, they looked in and they found all this gold and jewels and they kind of realised what must have happened. Wounded guy, the Battle of Edge Hill's just happened. We've got probably blood-stained jewellery right here. Oh, yeah. Still fingers in the rings.

Still wrists in the bracelets. Yeah. Probably a big leather shoe. A bit of bum still on the wallet. There's bum on this wallet. It's still good. Clean it off. Is it made of wood

is it a wipe clean wood you need to lock your wallet sir so jeremiah fell into a fever and after a few days he came out of it and he regained his strength and he's like right i need to get out of here said to the lone lady can i have my leather sack she said what's that mate oh i'm on her side now and he's like i gave you my leather bag she's like don't know what you're talking you've had a fever you know i you are chatting nonsense you still feel ill no i gave you my leather sack where is it do you mean like a big giant leather shoe because we've got loads of those around here no i want it back and she said no um um also you owe me for staying in the pub that's when she went too far food and lodging that's that's a little cheeky yeah well he was furious obviously but what can he do he can't get the police in no they've stolen my stolen goods also it's the civil war and they

don't exist oh yeah yeah so there's two reasons he can't call the police two. No. They've stolen my stolen goods. Also, it's the Civil War and they don't exist. Oh, yeah. So there's two reasons he can't call the police. Two major reasons. Whoop, whoop, sound of nothing yet for hundreds of years. Till the peelers. Do you know what I said

to Rachel the other day? Mm-hmm. Quack, quack, sound of the duck police. We laughed for about 40 minutes. It doesn't need to be a good joke when you're in a relationship. Quack, quack,

sound of the duck police. It's the sound of all ducks. It doesn't make any sense. Well,'re in a relationship. Quack, quack. Sound of the duck police. It's the sound of all ducks. It doesn't make any sense. Well, it could be undercover. Quoop, quoop. Is that what the duck police would sound like? Quan, quan. It's the French duck police.

It's the duck gendarmerie. Arrêtez. Prends pour moi. Oh, nice. Read for me. Yeah, yeah, that's good. That's what a duck would say. You've got a working level of duck-based French.

Duck French is unparalleled. It's like pigeon English. Do you know, have we talked about the origin of the phrase pigeon English on this before? Do you know it? I presume it's racist, to be honest. It's racist. Sorry, sorry. it comes from i think chinese or possibly japanese businessmen so apparently it's it's a mispronunciation of the

word business so it's it's business english but said in i think a chinese accent so the english people when the chinese people who were learning english were saying we've learned business english meaning a sort of functional level of English, to the ears of the guys who thought that Beijing was called Peking and all the rest of it. When they said business, it sounded like pigeon. And they went, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho. These people who've just learned our language sound a bit funny when they talk it. Let's make fun of them forever by coining a new word

for people who don't speak English very well. But i don't understand how business can possibly sound like pigeon the only sound they have in common is the but how does an s become an n i don't know no matter how racistly you try and say the word business it doesn't sound like pigeon yeah go go on and if you want to listen to the Lorman Extra podcast... The final podcast before we were cancelled. Our Patreon subscribers can hear all the racist... Our Patreon subscribers. We never bothered.

No. We probably should. This might be in the future when we have got Patreon subscribers. In which case, there will be no extra racism for the Patre to clarify i'm not i'm not holding up no extra racism just the normal amount yeah so i feel like i may have derailed you slightly pigeon english pigeon duck french so she says yeah sorry i don't know why i find that so amusing i like it i like it and you can tell the difference there's two different types of um sorry i'm still laughing at the jokes duck gendarmerie um there's some duck gendarmeries carry a gun and the other ones are just like

city-based uh duck oh they're not the gendarme i think the gendarme always are the ones with guns aren't they because of the That's probably what it means. Yeah, I think so. I think it's le police, isn't it? Yes, it is, yeah. La police. I like the way Europe can't agree on anything but you can agree that the police all have a name that sounds basically like bullies.

In every European country it's like polis, palas, the pols in Glasgow. Apart from Ireland. Oh yeah, it's Garda. Yeah,, the Pulse in Glasgow. Apart from Ireland. Oh, yeah. It's Garda. Yeah, Garda. Come on, Ireland. Come on, Ireland.

Just a little shout of support. What's he going to do? Who's he going to get on side to say, can you help me to get back the stuff that I stole from dead bodies? Like, he's talking about the pub. He's talking about the landlord and landlady of the pub. loves them yeah he's new in town jeremiah stone he's just shown up with a with a limp so what he does he waits until nightfall and then tries to break in to the inn because he knows yeah because they're not crooks they're not going to be able to fence it straight away are

they no they've still got it and they're going to probably, you know, eke it out or whatever. He knows he could probably get into that security cupboard. He broke open a window and began to ease himself in. And this is a hotel window, so we know they don't open very far. So he's really having to Eugene Toombs his way through a narrow gap here. Yes. Good reference. That's another argument I have with Rachel all the time. When we go out and the windows open a crack and she says, close the window.

And every single time I say, who do you think's going to break in? Eugene Toombs. And she says, yes, and then I have to go and close the window, because that is what she thinks is going to happen. Fair enough. But only once every seven years. We don't know where they are on the cycle, James.

That's true. Anyway, they were waiting for him or Eugene Toombs. They got him, and they pulled him in, and they called, well, whoever the equivalent of the police were. Bailiffs, maybe? Yeah. Sheriff? Arrested, chucked in the cells waiting for the

Azizes. That's one of the words that I've never said aloud. I've only ever seen it written down. Azizes. Azizes. And the only person I've heard say it is you. What is Azizes? As far as I understand... What are Azizes? Azazers. Azizes. Azaz's. And the only person who heard say it is you. What is Aziz's? As far as I understand... What are Aziz's? Azaz's.

Aziz's. Azaz's. It's invented by Tommy Cooper. Azaz's. Aziz's. They were like a sort of a monthly trial, weren't they? It's like, basically, whenever someone did something that was considered, they were like, that's probably illegal in a town,

they get put in a cell and held until the judge came round. And I've seen these cells. Most places, they're just like, they're like one little tower in the middle of nowhere, just a one storey tower in the middle of the town. Just like a single cell

on its own that you would be stuck in. Presumably two people wouldn't commit a crime during the same period. There were a lot less people back then and a lot less laws, maybe. I don't know. So, yeah, he was flung in the jail, spelt G-A-O-L.

I like it. Goal. I really thought it was called goal. Yeah. Everyone did, right? Also, I don't know if Aziz's is the right way of saying it. Aziz's? I think I don't know if diseases is the right way of saying it. As Isis? I think I had to say it in a play,

and no one ever corrected me, so I really hope it's pronounced diseases, because it's one of the words I've said to the most people. Yeah, so he's in jail, waiting for the judge to come around and pass judgment. One night in jail. That's definitely not how you pronounce it. One night in jail. One night in jail. One night in jail. One night... That's definitely not how you pronounce it. One night in jail.

One night in jail. One night in jail. The devil appeared before Jeremiah Stone and said, look, Jeremiah, I can get you out of this. All I need, stand a devil deal, is your soul.

And Jeremiah said, thanks, but no thanks, actually. That doesn't normally happen in these stories, does it? He's like, I think I need my soul, even though I'm a body robber. What's the word for that? There is a word for it. Well, it's a bit like grave robbing. It's like grave robbing. But they weren't yet in a grave. No.

There must be a word for corpse filching. It's not corpse filcher, but that one's available. I think look that up on Urban on urban dictionary before you say it again and but the devil was all right with this weirdly enough for the devil you'd think he'd be angry but turns out he's all right he says you're gonna need a lawyer because they're gonna try you right starts giving him advice yeah free legal advice he says tell you what he says you're gonna have a trial it's your right to have someone speak for you and when you're in court say you asked to have someone speak to you and look for a bloke with a red hat and a feather in it and say that he's gonna be the person to speak for you and

then he disappeared oh yeah and so starting to think the devil might get what he wants in the end anyway a few days later Jeremiah Stone standing in the dock it's not looking good for him but he remembered what the devil said

and he said judge I believe it is my right that I have someone speak for me that's suspiciously handsome gentleman I would like

da da da da da da da da that guy in that yeah with red hat and the feather I'm imagining Bowie in

the end of The Man Who Fell to Earth kind of vibe. Yeah. So, oh, he's charming and well-spoken, clearly an educated man, but nobody around here has seen him before. Has someone got some rotten eggs? You never hear about brimstone in any other context.

No. No one mentions brimstone. It must be a type of stone. It's inefficient as well, just to use the brim. What about the rest of the stone? That is... They just chuck it back in the sea. Chuck it back in the quarry.

Yeah, so he picked him out. And, of course, it was the devil. He stood up and he... Whoa, whoa. Sorry, that guy was the devil? Yeah. Oh, yeah, right. All right.

And he said... Okay. He stood up and he gave a very eloquent defence of... Well, not defence. He explained what had happened, which obviously involves telling them that this guy was corpse filter. For want of a better word. Safe search on for that one, guys.

Did you mean... No! I don't know what I said, Google. Thank you. And he said, if this is true, if my client's telling the truth then you just need to go to the anchor in and have a look for a leather bag it's probably going to be in a security cupboard and if it was there then that's proof that the landlord and landlady stole this guy's leather bag and hearing this the landlord stood up and said, no, that's not true. May the devil take me if I ever had a bag like that.

And the devil... Really embarrassing with him being in the room. The devil whooped, turned back into the devil, grabbed the landlord and flew up into the air with him over the courtroom. And they hovered over the marketplace before finally disappearing, leaving behind them according to

passers-by a very great stink. Whoop! Sound of the devil. So yeah, apparently to this day above the marketplace in Warwick you'll see... It stinks. It stinks. Are you going to do something about this

the council? It's the devil. It's the It just stinks. Are you going to do something about this for council? It's like, it's the devil. It's the ghost of the devil. And so the struggling ghost of the landlord grasped, says here, grasped in the iron hands of the devil. And apparently this was reported in a pamphlet in 1642 where John Finch,

a shoemaker, says he doth testify to its truth, being an eyewitness of saying. So how big were the shoes that guy made? We don't know. We do not know. But it's come full circle. Yeah.

What a story. That was a really good story. Yes. Also, it's got a real twist. Real twist. Right. Real twist. Like you've got your eyes on him the whole time.

You weren't looking at the landlord. Yeah. Now it's score time. I'm ready to give you some scores. Good. Let's go first with Supernatural. Ooh, okay. Well, it's high.

It starts off so... It's like From Dusk Till Dawn. It starts off very normal, apart from a very big shoe. And then all of a sudden... Is there a big shoe in From Dusk Till Dawn? I don't know, actually. I haven't watched it for a while.

Doesn't a big shoe show up in all of tarantino's films because of his famous big shoe thing something like that yeah something like that yeah you're right it um it eases you in no it doesn't ease you in it's completely completely naturalistic and then ping the devil appears with that noise yeah probably he probably. He offers to represent someone as a lawyer for no fee. Yeah, that's pretty unlikely. That's not natural. He flies up in the air. He produces a great big stink in Warwickshire.

And now there's a ghost of it as well. Didn't expect that. He's the devil. That's pretty high. I'm trying to think of a natural explanation for what could have happened. So let's say the devil story isn't true, and that guy in the red hat was just a helpful passerby.

But how do they fly through the ceiling? How do they? I can't explain that. Ropes? How do they cause a great stink? In over the marketplace. There's no explanation for it other than it was old jumping Jack Satan. Yes, to use one of his many

names. Yep, so... It's five out of five. It's five out of five. It's an extremely supernatural story. You've got a ghost and Satan. Keep it on a Satan tip. That's what I always say to the kids. Hey kids, keep it on a Satan tip. And they say, you what? What did he say? Do you say that from a motorbike?

I say it from a motorbike, yeah. Because I have the docker effect as you go by. Keep it on the sender. I pause. It's when I'm pausing at the lights and I look left and right. And there's like three kids in a jalopy. I'm like, hey, kids, keep it on a Satan tip. And mim.

And I go, mim, mim, mim, mim, mim. And then I rev the motorbike. Yeah. This category, devil's mim, mim, mim. And then I rev the motorbike. Yeah. This category, Devil's Advocate. Devil's Advocacy. Devil's Advocacy. I mean, that is a well-tailored category. Yeah.

It's making me think of the film Devil's Advocate. Yes. Alistair Pacino. Yes. Is that his real name? And Kenneth Reeves. And presumably a woman. Charlize Theron.

Is it Charlize Theron? Charlize Theron, yes. How sexist of me to forget that Charlize Th? And Kenneth Reeves. And presumably a woman. Charlize Theron. Is it Charlize Theron? Charlize Theron, yes. How sexist of me to forget that Charlize Theron was in that film. Well, that film is like this. Yes. The devil, because it's got a lawyer in it. But also because it's a revisionist take on the devil. He's not all horns and spikes.

No. He's Al Pacino. He's like, I'm a rebel. Yeah. That's not a very good Al Pacino impression, but I think you see where I'm going there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a better impression, yeah.

Shucks, shucks, shucks. Can we just edit in a good Al Pacino impression over my grumbling noises? Just Al Pacino. Although he can't do it anymore, I don't think. I saw him at the BAFTAs. You saw him the other day? I saw him the other day on the telly.

Down your local. In the post office. I don't think he can do it at Al Pacino anymore. I'm just doing the arms. You saw him the other day. I saw him the other day on the telly. Down your local. I don't think he can do it. I'm just doing the arms. I can't do the voice. Yeah, devilish advocacy. Devilish advocacy. Well, he's the devil and he's a lawyer. What a pitch. Yeah.

I just can't bring myself to give you two fives out of five. I think it's going to be fives all the way, baby. Why don't you give me three sixes? Yeah, to avoid that. Just for security purposes, I'm going to... It's five out of five for devil's advocacy. Yes. Names.

Okay, there's two band names. Jeremiah Stone. Jeremiah Stone and the Devil. And what? John Hamm and his big slippers. The anchor in John Higgs' big shoe. And it's not... John Higgs' big shoe.

John Higgs' big shoe. And in relation to the devil as well, he must have given himself a name. Like in Devil's Advocate, I love the names that the devil takes in films. They're so obvious. The devil's advocate one is John Milton, which is the most complex one. That's obvious.

No. The diabolical connection there. Have you seen Angel Heart? No, I haven't. Starring Mickey Rourke and Robert De Niro. Bobby D? Bobby D plays Louis Cipher. Oh.

I hear that out loud. That's Louis Cipher. Yeah! I hear that out loud. That's Louis Cipher. Yeah, just call me Lou. So De Niro plays the devil? Yes. Can you do the accent? Or is it just the usual De Niro? I couldn't do the face.

He's got a big beard in it, actually. He looks quite different. Oh, yeah. And he eats an egg. He eats an egg? Very weirdly. That's what I said about Satan. He eats a strange egg. He eats an egg. All eats an egg. Very weirdly. Yeah. That's what they say about Satan. He eats a strange egg.

He eats an egg all weird. Eggs of unnatural production. Oh, maybe that explains the sulfur. Oh, yeah. Egg bound. The devil was egg bound. That's the thing with these celebrities. We see the end product, a weird stink over a marketplace.

We don't see the work that goes into it. Eating loads of eggs. Yeah. 12 or 13 eggs. Probably 13. 13 eggs. Evil eggs. The it eating loads of eggs yeah 12 or 13 eggs uh probably 13 13 eggs the evilest number of eggs um the eggs would probably be like like a horse's egg like some impossible oh right creature's egg like how they keep eggs in the dairy section well you've just blown my mind a lot of supermarkets they keep eggs and eggs are in the dairy section what they

don't come from cows never seen a cow i It doesn't say what this lawyer called himself, but I'm imagining he would have called him something. My ideas for good devil pseudonyms are Bill Elzebub. Or Jeff the Devil. Before I came here, you said that I had to come up with devil euphemisms. I didn't know it was going to be lawyers, though. It doesn't... So my names that I came up with

on the way here are Filthy Ronald, Mr Crackpepper, Baron Miss Chance, and Henry Winkler. All good devil surnames, aren't they? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I haven't got a problem with any of them. So, if we just add

those to the names in this story the ones that i i brought yeah are you gonna give them less than five it's five out of five i don't know how it's five out of five but it is i've got you with a sort of devilish trickery okay final category it's gonna be a very poorly scoring category corpse filching 5 out of 5 one for each ring on the finger that one's not a ring I can't believe this has been I think this is the most highest scoring it's the best I've ever done

yeah because I'm normally tougher than this yeah it's like a little it's like I sold myself to the devil in order to you're in a casino where you always win yep so that's your i'm sure there will be no comeuppance for me yeah i was chatting to this guy his name was dev ill and he was he was, I can tell you how to... You do that podcast? And I was like, yeah, I do, actually.

You always score really badly because you don't choose categories with enough strategy. Yeah. You get outwitted by this ginger bloke. Yeah, I've been after him for a long time. I'm trying to think of more bad devils' names. Lord of the Flies. I know more of the names of princes of hell than that. They're not famous, are they?

The artist formerly known as Prince of Darkness. Moe Locke. Moe Locke. Yeah, that works. Going on about inadvertently reading out their sort of a satanic ritual, because they're only words I've ever seen written down would it would the ritual still work if i pronounced it all wrong because a lot of people say beelzebub don't they or beezlebub do you reckon the devil would be a

pedant about a pedant about uh pronunciation i reckon the devil would be a pedant yeah because all of his schemes are about the letter of the law. They sound perfectly reasonable until you read the fine print. Pandemonium? Pan's a bit weird first name. Pam. Pandemonium. That one works. So I think the moral of that story is just watch what you say.

In case the devil's there. In case the devil is within earshot. A listening in. Yes. You've been listening to Lawmen with me, Alistair Beckett-King. And me, James Shakeshaft. And him, James Shakeshaft. Please like, subscribe, and recommend the podcast to a friend.

Oh, and comment. Comment! Yeah, make a comment. But not with an earshot of the devil. Yeah, exactly. Do be careful of the devil. The devil's in the details, people say. Yeah. And then you can get in there. Right in there.

In the details. Yeah, so when you sort of click, right click, view details. Oh, it's the devil. The devil's in there. The devil making work for idle Hans. Just the German guy. And Hans is like, whoa, I was just on a break and now I've got a second career working for the devil

and we don't know what the wages are. Death. The wages of sin are death. It's a terrible package. I wanted at least a cycle to work scheme.