Loremen Podcast - S3 Ep18: Loremen S3 Ep18 - Francisco González - Robert the Doll

Episode Date: April 23, 2020

FLORIDA MAN RECORDS PODCAST! The Loremen are joined by indie game auteur Francisco González - a genuine American! He gives us the lowdown on Florida's creepiest life-size, melty-faced, doll-boy, Robert the Doll. This bumper episode also investigates Florida's OTHER claim to paranormal fame: the Skunk Ape of the everglades. (He's basically a stinky bigfoot.) Plus, if you enjoyed the world's oldest paperboy in last week's episode, you'll go crazy for America's smallest post office. (It's impractically small!)    @loremenpod www.instagram.com/loremenpod www.facebook.com/loremenpod @JamesShakeshaft | @MisterABK | @GrundislavGames

Shop with Rakuten and you'll get it. What's it? It's the best deal, the highest cash back, the most savings on your shopping. So join Rakuten and start getting cash back at Sephora, Old Navy, Expedia, and other stores you love. You can even stack sales on top of cash back. Just start your shopping with Rakuten to save money at over 750 stores. Join for free at rakuten.ca or get the Rakuten app. That's R-A-K-U-T-E-N. Welcome to Lawmen, a podcast about local legends and obscure curiosities from days of yore. I'm James Shagshhaft. And I'm Alistair Beckett-King.

And this week, we've got an international episode. It's Francisco Gonzalez, our first American friend, to join us on the broadcast. An American with the Coca-Cola and the baseball caps. And the... It's hard to think of anything that's good at the moment, isn't it? Yeah. This is a really fun episode. He snuck two stories in.

I admire his chutzpah. James, how are you? I'm very good, actually, thank you. We're camping tonight, me and my son. Camp? In the garden. In the garden. Oh, right, okay. Because that's a crime now, you understand.

Everything fun is a crime. At the time of recording, that is a crime. I'm playing a video game at the moment where every time you're injured, you have to camp to regain your health. And it just occurred to me that that would not work. If you went camping with a bad leg, you would die. If you went camping with the slightest injury, you would die instantly. Yeah. It would not heal you.

I've been to Glastonbury and just had a hangover. And that was not cured by going to sleep in a hot tent. No, no, it's exacerbated. Don't camp, kids. It's not the cure-all that they promised you. Yeah, those fat cats in the programming video games industry. Well, I tell you what, on the subject of liars slash game designers, I'd like to introduce a guest law person to you, James. Are you ready for that?

Yeah. Are you braced? Are you girded in the law department? Yeah, I'm gripping the sides of the cupboard that I talk into for the purposes of this podcast. Yeah, obviously. Not just when you're really angry and just need somewhere to shout. James, I'd like to introduce Francisco Gonzalez.

Hello. Hi. Hiya. Francisco welcome to to lawmen would you just say lawmen for us lawmen doesn't work does it no sorry because you've got an American accent well actually I I want to say I was fanboying a little bit before we started recording I just want to uh get some brownie points by saying that I'm a huge fan of this podcast and I'm very honored to be on and if if I'm not mistaken, I think I have two distinct honors, which is I think I'm your first American guest.

I think you are. And I'm also your first guest who's not a comedian. So that means that my accent's going to be really boring and I'm not going to be funny. So well done picking me. Thank you. Really a lot of pressure for you there, Francisco. I'd be panicking at this point if I were you i mean given the current situation i think panicking is is pretty

much a daily activity anyway so oh yeah it's become the background noise of our lives hasn't it like when you stop noticing the air conditioning um oh sorry the ac it's just trying to translate for our american listeners we get downloads in the States. It's mostly you, Francisco, downloading the podcast, but there's others. I have to say, there was an episode a few episodes ago, this series, where you did an impression of the audible.com guy. And I was kind of distracted when I was listening. And I was like, who is that? And then I realized it was you.

It was amazing was amazing oh thank you well it was it was speaking to you about the podcast that i realized first as has been mentioned a few times on on the podcast that the pun law men men who are interested in law as in folklore doesn't sound like law men like law men like the men who do deal justice, which is what we had hoped, unfortunately. Although someone just messaged us on the Twitter to point out that it might work in a Texan accent. I don't know about that. I wouldn't want to attempt a Texan accent right after you complimented my American accent. Lawman.

I don't know. I don't think that's a Texan accent. I'm a lawman. We should have got a texan you're not texan you're from florida you're a floridian i'm from florida now what i know about florida is and you can jump in and correct me if i'm wrong there's a lot of old racist people there and and oranges and what happens is the young people from Florida have to go to New York and then they stay there until they become racist and then they go back.

And that's the system. Is that correct? You know, that is absolutely correct. Where are you on that trajectory? Well, I was born and raised in South Florida, in Miami specifically. I spent 31 years of my life there and six years ago I moved to there, and now I move,

and six years ago I moved to New York, and here I am now. And so, yeah, that's where I am on the trajectory. Just getting more and more racist by the day. Yep. New York comes across very badly there. I've always said that New York is where Floridians go to live, and Florida is where New Yorkers go to die. That seems to be that makes sense

it's like eastbourne it's like a big eastbourne florida is is it florida is eastbourne i'm i'm saying it now or bridlington i've been to florida but i've not been to neither eastbourne or bridlington but now i feel like i have i've never heard of eastbourne or bridlington so oh they're very very very Florida, evidently. If you imagine... Just imagine Florida. A Victorian seaside resort that has died, and the ghosts of the town shuffle about,

and dry leaves sort of blow around the quiet streets, and an old man tries to sell you an ice cream, but it's raining. Oh, so like Barry Island. Yes, yes. Less Welsh. Yeah, like a not-Welsh Barry Island. I never know what reference you're going to know. tries to sell you an ice cream but it's raining also like barry island yes but yes less welsh yeah like like a not welsh barry island i never know what reference you're going to know francisco yeah like barry island yeah when i went to florida it was a very i think i went to quite a touristy town um disney world see here's the thing here's the thing about florida florida gets or has a

reputation and i'm not saying it's an undeserved reputation but i could be wrong here but my estimation is that florida is roughly about the size of great britain what yeah land like to to drive out of miami to like to get to the top of the state it takes about roughly six hours yeah that's uh which is about how long it would take to get from like london to you know what like yeah the scottish border maybe the highlands of scotland if it weren't for traffic you could certainly do that depends on the traffic mate depends on the traffic mate which way you going a1m right not this time go on the m6 toll mate you can you can speed on it sorry carry on florida's big and i didn't realize sorry yeah

it's a very long state it's a peninsula and just like uh england it's pretty much like regional wise it's very different depending on where you go so like i grew up in miami which is south florida which is like the the miamiade, Broward, Palm Beach area. The whole like place where the old people go, which is like Boca Raton, that's in Palm Beach. Those are basically like the southern tip of the state. I know that the state is said to resemble a certain body part. So if you were... We might say appendage. Appendage, yes.

So the bottom of the state that's that's pretty much so they're the glands exactly exactly they are the glands miami has a rap of being like a party town which it is and then you know you have your west coast florida which is where pretty much all the retirees are and also that's kind of where when you hear reports about florida man does stuff that's usually where florida you hear reports about Florida man does stuff, that's usually where Florida man comes from. Oh, yes. West coast, sort of the Tampa area, because nothing good comes from Tampa.

Tampa is all strip malls and strip clubs. Is that where the, is this statistic like, is it the place that owns the most alligators per capita or something? Probably, because it's right around the edge of the Everglades and that's where all the alligators are so have you got a pet alligator not anymore i live in new york now i have a rat i could get offended and say how dare you uh stereotype but in school they actually did teach us how to run in a zigzag to avoid alligators it's true and you know you were

saying maybe math would be more useful but they went with alligators i's true and you know you were saying maybe math would be more useful but they went with alligators i mean survival is important but i suppose you could sort of do pythagoras theorem off the back of that you know did you notice that i said math instead of maths to make it more i did and i thank you did you appreciate that james i didn't appreciate it it's maths it's plural because it's numbers there There's more than one. I can't argue with that. Yeah. Just to finish the tour, you got Central Florida, which is where Orlando is, which is where Disney World is. And there's not much there. And then you've got Northern Florida,

which is, I don't know, Jacksonville. I've never actually been to Jacksonville, but I hear it smells. It's like the Venice of Florida, except we actually do have a Venice on the West Coast. We have a Naples, we have a Venice. I'd like the idea that Jacksonville's slogan is, it's like the Venice of Florida, except we actually do have a Venice, but it's in small letters. And only in smell. Yeah. I think in another flagrant example of American exceptionalism, Francisco, you've been allowed to bring two stories to Lawmen, which are not in any way

because James is a rascal, as you know, for bringing in eight or nine stories that he's cleverly woven together into a tapestry, and I don't notice. And then he walks away with his pockets jingling with points. But I think you've got two quite different, but both Floridian

stories for us. Is that correct? That is correct. Is Floridian the right word as well? Yes. Okay. That's our demonym, Floridians. Oh, good.

It sounds like someone is into fluoride or something. Yeah. Knocking back the old mouthwash. Yeah. Or maybe a conspiracy theorist who's talking a lot about fluoride and vapor trails. I'm sure there's plenty of people in Florida that get their kicks by drinking mouthwash. That would not surprise me.

When they're not owning alligators, what are you going to do? Exactly. On the other day of the week. How else do you pass the time? They've got a lot of teeth, though. You also need to look after them and the alligators, famously. Yeah, is that mouthwash for personal use? No, I have nine alligators.

I'm from Florida. carry on sir i'm sorry incidentally have either of you watched that tiger king documentary on netflix not yet i've seen a bit of it yeah i've seen the first episode and a half but my wife can't deal with the philip seymour hoffman guy's mouth oh yeah i haven't watched it yet but i was told that part of it takes place in tampa and i said i I knew it. I just knew it. Just looking at it. So the first of your stories is about a... Normally on this podcast, we do historical curiosities and obscure bits of folklore. But this guy is sort of famous, but kind of not. He's the skunk ape. Is that right? Correct. That is correct. I mean, the

perils of inviting an American onto your podcast is that there's not going to be anything that's any older than 300 we're not even 250 years old yet as a country so the skunk ape i find it i don't visualize what the skunk ape is based on that name can you explain what the skunk ape is and and does so the skunk ape is the regional variant on the bigfoot or the sasquatch uh which is your classic cryptid missing link ape thing uh it's basically a giant humanoid ape creature but the reason it's called the skunk ape is because this one in particular has a very distinct odor. It smells bad. So Florida decided it needed its own version of the Bigfoot myth. Correct. Their way of making it unique was, he's really smelly.

He smells bad. Exactly. Is it from Jackson? No. No, he's not, surprisingly. No, the Skunk Ape lives in the Florida Everglades, He's not, surprisingly. No, the Skunk Ape lives in the Florida Everglades,

which the Florida Everglades are a large preserved wildlife sanctuary of swamp and marshlands in the southern middle part of the state. Is that where Gentle Ben was set? I never saw Gentle Ben. He was a bear, and they went round on the boats with the big fans on the back. The fan boats is what I was thinking of. Oh, the air boats. airboats yeah yeah yeah yeah those that's that's the everglades airboat sounds very cyberpunk that really makes me think we're talking about a hot air balloon kind of situation but it's it's really more just like a sort of metal sheet with a giant van attached to it yeah yeah i imagine a raft and then like a a tall chair like a bar stool yeah

and then a massive fan on the back i thought you were going to say a massive man sitting on it which is more often than not the case he's a big lad yeah yeah and his name is usually like jimbo yeah his first name is somehow hyphenated yeah but yeah that's that's the everglades it's it's pretty much just a marshy swampy it's hot uh there's lots of giant insects if you go during february is that you get to see the alligators mostly um i mean i highly recommend it as a nature experience and if you you know you go and you see the skunk ape even better now you have had a long-term interest in the Skunk Ape. I played a video game you wrote about the Skunk Ape. Would that have been 12 years ago now? Something like that?

16 years. 16 years. Wow. Yeah, we're old now. And you sent me some material you had gathered. Yes. Visiting, is it the Skunk Ape? I don't want to use the word museum because I'm imagining a shack.

Is it a museum? Yeah, no, it totally is. The Skunk ape i don't want to use the word museum because i'm imagining a shack the is it a museum yeah no it totally is the skunk ape experience yeah it's the skunk ape research center sorry the skunk ape research center i apologize yeah in in ochopee florida is it like the yorvik viking center it's a lot smaller the yorvik viking center is a wonderful place if you ever get a chance to go francisco because i remember going there when i was a kid and it was all very shabby mannequins dressed as vikings but with all the sort of the fur falling off and the helmets on the floor they had that smell thing didn't they there was like this smells like the past that's manure is what you're talking about they're very much skunk aped it in that respect what do the other museums not have the smell of manure in like the turn of the century they got loads of lottery funding and instead of making you walk around they now of manure in like the turn of the century they got loads of lottery funding

and instead of making you walk around they now sit you in like this futuristic disney world sort of ride and you hang off the ceiling and you sit in it and then it tours you around the exact same mannequins from 20 years ago that i went to see when i was a kid but in the most futuristic chair see when i was a kid but in the most futuristic chair you have ever seen is it got a big fan behind it it does not but jim bob is available for signings you know just to ruffle the hair of the kids anyway so yeah actually the first time i ever heard of the skunk ape was uh when i was in high school uh for our science class for biology we took a field trip out to the everglades uh with the very scientific intent of not looking for the skunk ape. We were testing the soil for its pH balance.

And when we were out there, one of my friends was like, hey, you know about the skunk ape? We're like, what? And he told us about the skunk ape. And then I came to learn that it was an actual thing. And then, yeah, I made a game about it but then uh a few years ago i was i was back down there visiting and i took my girlfriend with me and i said hey let's go to the skunk ape research center so we drove out to ochopee florida which is a tiny little town in the middle of nowhere it actually has the smallest post office in the united states the things americans will be proud of never cease to amaze me.

Well, normally you think of a roadside Americana, it's like the world's largest rocking chair, the world's biggest frying pan. But no, this is the world, or the United States' smallest post office. And it pretty much just is big enough for one person.

There's just one person who goes in there and mails your postcards so you you can't go in no you can't there's already someone in there you can't enter it because there's a member of staff already on the premises exactly so just down the road from there is the skunk ape research center which is i don't want to say tourist trap it's like a trap. But it's not really a museum because there aren't any exhibits. It's really more of a gift shop. It's not a tourist trap, but sometimes tourists do die there. Yes.

Let's just say that. Yeah. So there's a giant statue of what's supposed to be the skunk ape, but is actually just a gorilla statue that's been painted a slightly different color. Is it skunk? Like it's got stripes? No, he doesn't have stripes. He's just kind of like a gorilla,

but brown and angry looking. Do they have the smell thing like the Orville Museum has? So you can like the skunky smell. Have they done that? Surprisingly, they don't. They haven't seized that particular opportunity,

which in my opinion is a shame. 4D. You've sent me, would pamphlet be the right word? Yes, pamphlet is the right word. It. You've sent me, would pamphlet be the right word? Yes, pamphlet is the right word. It's a self-published pamphlet by a man named David Shealy, who is the self-proclaimed leading skunk ape expert. And it just so happened that when we were there,

he was there too. And we bought this pamphlet. You've met him. You've met the man himself. I've met the man himself. He signed the pamphlet. Whoa. He was so happy that we were there and visiting and that we bought his pamphlet that he signed it.

I have to say, I know you can't see this, James, but the illustrations in this thing are just wonderfully naive. Those are my favorite part of that pamphlet. That was the main reason I wanted to send it to you because he didn't illustrate it. Someone else did. But the illustrations and the captions are my absolute favorite. I don't know. For a couple of reasons, I don't know if we're going to be able to put this on the website. They might encourage people to buy the pamphlet, because they are great.

Well, the thing is, you have to go to the Skunk Ape Research Center. They're only available to purchase at the Skunk Ape Research Center, to my knowledge. And they can't send them out because someone's in the post office. That's exactly right. But the captions, I've never seen anything that captions illustrations the way these illustrations are captioned. Because every one of the illustrations begins with the words, in the illustration above. In the illustration above, a skunk ape steps behind a tree to avoid being seen by a passing airboat. That's my favorite one because it incorporates the airboat

and also the skunk ape is just, he's not even hiding behind the tree. He's just kind of like, he has his arm around the tree and he's kind of peering out. But most of his body is outside of the, you know, it's in front of the tree. It's so, I thought you, James, I thought you would appreciate the fact that they've accounted for the fact that nobody really sees the skunk ape by illustrating him deliberately hiding from a passing airboat.

You love it when there's no evidence for things. Yes. Here's the thing, though. I mean, the Everglades is pretty big, but it's also Florida's very flat. And the Everglades, it's not the type of swamp where it's like giant mangroves. There's a lot of wetlands and flatlands so if you were to get i mean the pamphlet also includes uh tips on how to hunt for the skunk ape and how to sight the skunk ape and it recommends taking a ladder and standing on the ladder

i'm gonna have to give you the full skunk ape expedition checklist. Oh, yes. Checklist, not written as one word. Number one, map of the area. You wouldn't have thought of that. It's a good thing David Shealy was there to cover you. You need a map of the area. You need a ladder stand. Now, I had to Google this because I don't know what a ladder stand is. To me, that sounds like a thing that a ladder goes on, but it means, I think, a step ladder.

What we in the UK would call a step ladder. I mean, we call it a stepladder too. I don't know what a ladder stand is either. Next up, lima beans, one pound dry. So that's a pound dry. So that's a lot of lima beans. A leaf rake, 30 feet of rope, a five pound bag of plaster,

a five gallon bucket with handle, binoculars and pocket knife. The people who get out there with a bucket that has no handle are just really kicking themselves. How are they going to cook up those lima beans? But I assume that is to mix up and cast footprints

when you find footprints, tracks of the skunk ape. Yeah. I kind of regret not having done this research before making my game because this reads like an adventure game inventory checklist. It really does. I genuinely thought that you might have created it

when you sent it. I seem it has a sort of in-world feel. I wish I had because I don't feel like I'm creative enough to create a piece of... I mean, to write a thing thing like this i almost called it a piece of fiction but why would i say such a thing no dave has spent the last 30 years investigating sightings and he has a total of three confirmed skunk ape sightings on record so who are we to

question him and he estimates that there's at least seven to nine of them out in the wild. I just say eight. I just love that. Seven to nine. Just say eight. But if you do stand on your ladder stand or your step ladder or whatever, you can get a pretty good line of sight all around. So if this skunk ape, which is allegedly about nine feet tall, was around, it'd be pretty easy to see, is what I'm saying. It went behind the tree. It could be behind the tree.

Yeah, but it's behind the one tall tree. Yeah, but as you move around, it moves around the other side of the tree. But what about the seven other ones? Where are they? Yeah, you're right. Something doesn't add up. They're all in a row.

And if you chase after them, they're for Lyridians, so they know to go zigzag. And it's very difficult to get them on camera. Yeah. So that's the Skunk Ape. Absolute nonsense. What are the powers?

Does it have powers, the Skunk Ape, apart from the smell? Standing upright. Is standing upright a power? I guess it's got the power to lure people to the Skunk Ape Research Centre. Not in excessive numbers. No, no, not in excessive numbers at all. I think he actually sent me a message after I made the game because I got a message once that said something about like,

your game was very well researched. And I'm pretty sure it was from David Shealy because the name sounded familiar. Really? So the man himself getting in touch, that's quite cool. I'm glad, though, it was that sort of message and not like, help, trapped by seven to nine skunk apes. I'm up the tree. Bring a ladder stand.

I've only got a couple of ounces of lima beans left. Send condoms. I haven't read far enough in the guide to see what the lima beans are actually for. Dave likes lima beans. Well, that's a wonderful story. Thank you, David. Because I always feel bad when we slightly make fun of people

who are absolutely passionate about something because the world would be a worse place without people who are passionate and mad. And I like David Shealy. Oh, definitely. Now, the other story you told me, I tried to do some research on this, but I found much less information than I found for the the skunk head although i did find out that this story has been mentioned on the podcast law oh which is like a more successful but not funny version of this podcast why would you want that why would you want this without it being funny is that about like sort of a country's rules and regulations law or law that's l-o-r-e see he's got the same problem he didn't think it through aaron mankey your second story is it's i

don't know if the name is ridiculous or very creepy i can't decide i'll let you introduce it so this next story comes from key west which if florida is an appendage key west is the um emission of the appendage because there's a small chain of islands off the tip of the appendage. Because there's a small chain of islands off the tip of the coast, which are the Florida Keys. A dotted line emanating from the tip. We all know it. We all know it.

Key West is the very, very last stop on that journey down. Key West is a nice little island, which is kind of like New Orleans by the ocean. It's full of very quirky characters. And this story is about one of those characters. It's the story of Robert the Doll. It's actually the story of a man named Robert Eugene Otto, who was a, he was a boy who received a doll and allegedly according to the the stories his uh

because he he was uh his family was pretty well to do and they had a maid and the maid gave him this doll now apparently the maid allegedly because you know there's always a little bit of racism in these stories the maid was allegedly bahamian and as a result people think she was involved in practices like voodoo and so they think that this doll was some sort of uh she was bahamian did you say she was bahamian from the bahamas right you just thought she was a little bit over the top really big earrings yeah yeah keenly involved in the local theater so what what what era are we talking is this early early 20th century when when otto is a boy yeah yeah yeah this is uh this is like the early 1900s okay so this kid uh robert although his he went by gene because his middle name was

eugene she gave him this doll and it was it was supposed to... I think the idea was that it was supposed to look like him, although if you look at the doll, it really looks more like a monkey. It's got this sort of... It's got these two beady eyes, and it's dressed in a sailor suit, which is terrifying in and of itself. The eyes are literally black like a doll's eyes.

Yeah, they are. They really are. Yeah. I don't know if this is particularly relatable, but I have trypophobia, which is fear of little holes. Oh, really? And it's sort of like you don't like looking at a crumpet or whatever Americans call crumpets, fluff patties or something.

And Robert the doll's face is peppered with holes and nicks and scars. Yeah. And it is really creepy to look at. Yeah. I have to keep looking away because I find it very unpleasant. Well, it's interesting you say that.

I'll make a note of that. Am I cursed? Have I been hit by the curse? You may just have been, yes. Although, to be fair, I'm looking at him too, so, you know, we've all been cursed. I am not looking at it. Good. You'll be the sole survivor of this. Black. Black like a shark that looks like it's got doll's eyes.

Little Gene is given this doll, Robert. Well, the doll doesn't have a name. He's given this doll, which is, I mean, it looks pretty child-sized because he's sitting in this little chair in the picture. Yeah, it's not a little sort of puppet kind of doll. It looks like a sort of five-year-old kid size. Yeah. So Gene gets this doll. He names it Robert after himself, which is red flag number one.

Yeah, it's very vain everything's fine until people start noticing weird things and one of those weird things is that the kid starts talking to the doll in and he's talking back in a different voice or at least they hear two different voices the servants in the house hear the kid in his bedroom, and he's having conversations, and there's two different voices. So it's kind of like The Shining. And then there's also reports that the kid would wake up screaming in the middle of the night, and when they would come see what was wrong,

all of the furniture in the room was overturned, and the doll was sitting at the foot of the kid's bed. And when the parents asked him, you know, what would say oh robert did it and so then they then there was other things like giggling and people walking around outside would say that they would see the doll moving around from window to window because they lived in this house that had a turret of course it had a turret of course it had a turret of course it had a turret it still does the house is still there you can stay there it's a bed and breakfast of course it's still there it's america this happened like yesterday that's true the buildings

are still there touche so after a while they said okay enough's enough they put the doll in the attic and they left him there and of course of course they put it of course people of course so fast forward now little robert eugene is all grown up his parents die he gets to the house and um he's he becomes an artist so the house is now called the artist house it's no better at naming things when we got all the doll robert, what are you going to call your artist house? The artist house. We're not known for our creativity and nomenclature here in America. So somehow this man gets married and his wife does not like the doll. Really? Yeah.

Surprise, surprise. She doesn't like the doll. According to the Atlas Obscura website, there's conflicting rumors, but some allege that his wife died from quote-unquote insanity after locking Robert in the attic. Oh yeah, that's always happening. You can easily die of insanity. Yeah, that's a real danger if you live in a house with a turret. Yeah, well, others report that Jean died with Robert by his side. So they took the doll, and instead of burying the doll with the guy...

You said that as if that's standard practice in Florida. Usually, of course, the doll would be buried with its master. I mean, it's not standard practice, but in a story like this, it's kind of what you would expect, right? Yeah, I mean, I certainly would. But no, they robert in a museum and robert currently lives in the the east martello museum in key west and he's in a glass case with a teddy bear and here's where it gets interesting apparently there have been stories that if you go there and you take a picture with him and you don't ask him for permission first he will break

your camera oh it's like chimera quai and i mean the camera will stop working i don't i don't mean the doll will actually come out of the glass case and break the camera and apparently also like people think that if you there's some i remember because i i actually went to key west last time i went to key west I took a ghost tour and this is where I learned about Robert the doll apparently if you go and you insult the doll and you say I don't believe in you he pushes you oh because someone says that that happens breaking a camera is annoying and pushing yeah that's absolutely not on no but also there's uh one of the pictures here shows a bunch of letters taped to the case.

Apparently that's people writing letters to him asking them to please stop haunting them. Oh. I've got one right here which says in big sort of police tape graphics, warning, don't photograph. Yeah. Robert, I should have listened to those who warned me about photographing you. I paid for the few of the photographs I took. Listed below is the trouble you caused me. And it's things like

my two favourite souvenirs from Key West came up missing. You had my loving cat greet my return home by biting me. When I went to retrieve my luggage at the airport, it wasn't on the carousel it was assigned to. You put it two carousels further down. Mine was the only one that was on the wrong carousel. What a bad guy.

The extent of his evil is more mild annoyance than he will inconvenience the hell out of you yeah yeah i gotta say robert's pretty scary but it that his his doll robert is pictured holding a second doll which is yes that's i've really been thinking about that a lot have you googled it now james have you seen the doll have you seen the doll i'm not going to look at it he's got his own doll he's got his own doll but it's like a little dog but with like the face of um jake from adventure time but with mad dolls eyes like a doll's eyes squared does the doll have a doll i'm not zooming in i'm not zooming in on one of these photos to see if it's got a doll's doll it's just a matryoshka of horrible evil dolls i think it's time for the scores uh could you could

you have a little bit of scores now james yeah yeah bring it bring it on okay uh francisco are you ready for some scoring i think i am all right uh what what is your first category first category is james's favorite supernatural supernatural yes what do you reckon james right then the old what is your first category? First category is James's favourite, Supernatural. Supernatural. Yes. What do you reckon, James? Right then. The old skunk ape.

Yep. Unless it's got a supernatural ability to locate tree. Yeah. We don't know what it's going to do with those lima beans. Nope. However, Bobby the D.

Yeah, that's very supernatural. Yeah? Yeah, isn't it? He's shoving people for little reason. Some people think they see his mouth move and facial expressions change. Do they? Yeah. Right, that's okay.

Yeah, no, that's very creepy. The old creepy doll. Yeah, I like it. It's got a lot of spook. Turning over the furniture, sitting on the bed, giggling. He's also wearing a sailor suit, which adds to the creepy factor, I feel. Is that the creepiest of all the suits, the sailor suit? I think it is on the child, because what business does a child have going to sea?

You did say, though, that he looked a bit like a monkey, and it made me think of the Hartlepool monkey. Just my... Like he was maybe a tie-in doll for that. I imagine Robert talking with a kind of... Like when Americans do English accents, and they have that sort of, I'm Robert the doll.

Yes. I know. I imagine him talking like that. Very creepy. Oh, you've've upset me i'm very cross now that's pretty scary have you found your luggage wrong carousel buddy yeah um so what do you make it james i think it's a high score oh yeah ignore the hairy guy ignoring the smelly man um yeah i've got to go for a five really that's the oh really he's well

creepy probably the d i was hoping for a little bit more of the old they tried to chuck him away and then he turned up type vibe well he was sold after Otto died to other people. Actually, I'm going to save that for the next category. What's the next category? The next category is naming. Yeah. After Otto died, his home was purchased by Myrtle Router. Hey!

That's like really old and really new at the same time. It might be Reuter. I'm probably pronouncing it wrong. Oh, right. She brought the doll with her when she moved to Von Fister Street. Six years later, according to robertthedoll.org. Oh, and of course, Robert is a one-of-a-kind doll handmade by the Steiff Company.

Really? That's the classic teddy bear one. So it probably has a little German voice. A little creepy. I has a little German voice. I'm a little sailor boy. I'm sitting in my chair. No, you can't have my creepy little dog doll. That's mine.

Let's watch the DVD of Das Boot again. I used to be a go-go dancer in the cabaret. Times have changed, Otto. Times have changed. So the names are pretty good robert the doll the skunk ape the skunk ape although he sounds more like a poo ape than a skunk ape because he's brown and he smells whereas the skunk is sort of black and white stripes and smells i think it's that he smells like a skunk, though. Oh. The odor has been described as a mix of rotten eggs, moldy cheese, and animal dung.

You know, I'm getting moldy cheese. I'm getting animal dung. Are you getting that? You're like a sommelier of... Of cryptids. Yeah. No, no, take it away. I'll have the Loch Ness Monster instead. He's more briny.

I like that. Just bring me the house dragon. I also want to say that, you know, I think there should be consideration for the creativity of the naming. As you mentioned, the guy named Robert named the doll Robert and the artist house being named because an artist lived there. Yeah. Well, I think it's a four

and that's because of the fister and the router myrtle's router hey i'll take it okay that's a good score that's a very good score yeah yeah yeah so uh moving on to the third category uh francisco what have you got for us? Yeah, so jumping on what we were just talking about, the third category is Stench. Ah. Stench, as a category, that's making its second appearance in Series 3 of Lawmen. We are doing some smelly stories this year.

A few weeks ago, we did the Radverboar. That was quite smelly. Radverboar. That stunk the town up. And of course, the whole werewolf old stinker old stinker it's in the name skunk ape old stinker which one smells worse that's the question you have to ask yourself james because you're not just dealing with one skunk ape here you're dealing with seven to nine skunk apes.

So how can one werewolf in Hull be smellier than that? But that's the thing. It's Hull saying he smells. This is Florida of Jacksonville. Yeah, then we've got stinky old Jacksonville. Yeah, I think I've got to ignore Robert the Doll because he might smell of a bit of mothballs and a bit damp, but I don't want to say that. I don't want to go on record saying that just in case I get a shove.

Are you avoiding slandering Robert the doll? Is that the issue? I've never lost a bit of luggage yet. I want to keep that 100% record. I smell very nice. Why don't you come closer and smell me? Just opened the case. I can't hurt you.

I'm a doll the little doggy trumped it wasn't me he's the doll blaming the doll stall yeah the little doggy doll the doll did we've come full circle it really is dollception so an interesting aside is that on robertthedoll.org you can purchase your very own robert doll which is a small plushy version of robert the doll but he comes with a small dog doll that's an officially licensed accessory for robert the doll oh wow there's a lot of merchandise you can get a keychain where he looks like sack boy from little big planet and oh you can get a b oh there's a snow globe there's a snow globe where robert the doll is on a snow globe on top of the museum it's terrifying instead of snow is it little

bits of furniture that you shake around that would be good oh if only it's 49.95 a bargain and the snow is black like his eyes like the doll's. Like a shark that looks like a doll's eyes. Yeah. But does any of it smell? Smells like capitalism. Oh, look, if you looked at their Q&As. Two, is this replica haunted? No, that would be the real Robert.

All Robert products are approved by Robert prior to being released to his fans. I approve. I think we've got away from the stink and it's four for... Yeah, okay. 0.5 per ape. Per stink ape. Sunk skunk ape.

That seems reasonable. A four, that's pretty good. What's the final category, Francisco? The final category is mild inconvenience. Oh. Come on, James. How are you getting that many lima beans in a bag? Where are you getting them from?

Yeah, that is annoying. Going camping with a stepladder? Yeah, your ladder stand. And if you realise that you've turned up and your bucket hasn't got a handle. He'll be like, I shouldn't have taken that picture of Robert. Five out of fives all the way, definitely. Yeah? Yeah, there's no argument on that one.

I was really expecting you to put up more of a five there. No, no, no, no. It's mildly inconvenient the whole way through. If anything, you've made ending the podcast a little bit inconvenient by just relenting too easily. What's more fitting? See, that's the thing. This is the one category where both of them have levels of annoyance being pushed.

Yeah. That's the thing. They they're both inconvenient but not very inconvenient and if like if you're haunted by what you have to go back to the museum to stick the post-it on his cage it's not it's not a cage it isn't a cage well it's a glass case we think he's locked in there with us but the the other way round thing from the film. You think he's locked us out? It couldn't be more slightly annoying. Having all your furniture turned up.

Ah, come on, mate. That's going to take seven or eight minutes to put right in a chance bedroom. When someone giggles and you're like, what are you laughing at? So, final score for mild inconvenience? Oh, it's five. I'd like to give it a four

because that would just be a little bit annoying. But it is five. I'll give it between four and six. Between four and six. That sounds good to me. Well, thank you very much for coming on our podcast, Francisco. Yeah, thank you. Is there anything you would like to plug to the listener?

And notice I carefully didn't pluralize that. Thank you for having me. It was my pleasure to be on here. I mean, I don't know exactly what the Venn diagram overlap is for listeners who are interested in lore and listeners who are interested in point-and-click adventure games. But if you like point-and-click adventure games games you can check out some of my games on steam just look up grundeslav games that's g-r-u-n-d-i-s-l-a-v games.com or at grundeslav games on twitter and you can find my

free to play game about the skunk ape on my website as well. Is that still playable? I think so. How many pounds of llama beams do we need? I would recommend listeners check out Lamplight City or Shardlight. Those are two of your fairly recent games, both of which are well worth looking at if you like stories and puzzles and that sort of thing. Yes. Nice.

Thank you very much. Thank you. It was spooky. I'm going to go camping now, so I'm going to be a little bit freaked out by that doll. Yep. Or a skunk ape. James, you're about seven feet tall.

If anyone comes, just step behind a tree. Knock their ladder over. Yeah. So, those were the stories. Two stories. Are you okay with that, James? Yeah, I love it. I'm a big fan of sneaking in as many stories as possible. Yeah, you do like to cheat with extra stories, that's true. Well, I think what I lack in quality I make up for in quantity.

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