Loremen Podcast - S3 Ep20: Loremen S3 Ep20 - The Ghosts of Sherborne House

Episode Date: May 7, 2020

The Loremen meet old Mister Crump in this listener-suggested tale of Gloucestershire oddities. (Thanks for sending it in, Emily!) What begins as an exploration of spectral phenomena quickly devolves into a cabin fever-dream. We discuss of bees, bones, back doors and boozy ghosts. It's another lockdown episode and things are getting weird... Enjoy! @loremenpod www.instagram.com/loremenpod www.facebook.com/loremenpod @JamesShakeshaft | @MisterABK

Welcome to Lawmen, a podcast about local legends and obscure curiosities from days of yore. I'm James Shakeshaft. And I'm Alastair Beckett-King. And before we get into this episode, I have to make a correction and apology. Last week we were talking about potatoes and tomatoes. I recall. And I said they were from the mandrake family. Turns out, however, they're from the nightshade family.

Oh, the other superhero. Yeah, the superhero that, to be honest, should be half man, half lamp. What story have you got for us this week with its manifold inaccuracies? This has been sent in by a listener and, ooh, there's a lot of ghosts in it. Prepare to be scared. Okay, I'll do that now. Oh, good. Well, let's start it, then.

So, have you got a story for me there, in your little pouch? Yeah, I do, in my little pouch, in my little... Are you visualising a leather pouch or one that's part of your body like a marsupial? Yeah, it was a marsupial pouch. That's disgusting. I was hoping it was just a little satchel. It's a sort of inside-out sort of mucky fold. Mucky flesh envelope.

It's my mucky fold. Well, what have you got in your mucky fold for me today i don't think we can put this in a podcast i don't think i can say that um well this is i've got an email i've got email i've got wi-fi in there now we got an email from a listener i presume they're a listener it would be very odd if they just emailed us a folklore story on the spec, not even knowing what we did. But it's Emily O'Shea, and she sent us a nice little tip-off about a local-ish legend to me, a Cotswoldian one. And I did a bit of research on it, and it's really good. Oh, great.

So I would like to tell it to you, please. I hope you haven't gotten her into trouble by naming her as the snitch who gave us the tip off and like the ghost or whatever is gonna oh yeah you know seek her out and and seek revenge oh yeah that's a very good point she didn't say that she she wanted her identity to be protected uh in this world or the next well we should just keep an eye out because the last thing we want to do is send our listeners down the road of supernatural vengeance yeah email in if you're continuing to not be haunted please regular updates thanks cheers emily this is the story of john crump dutton john crump dutton john crump dutton

crump is sort of affectionate nickname that was given to him because he had kyphosis or hunchback oh which is the derogatory term oh yeah right an affectionate nickname mocking a disability yeah yeah but he may he there's a there's a real chance he's a murderer so oh fair enough normally i don't like to have a pop at people but if they're murderers i don't know that it gets a bit no well because i was thinking it was getting a bit ableist but i actually appreciate the message that disabled people can be murderers too so watch out yeah that's not especially the normal amount i did look it up as well to make sure i was using the right word and it's also known as sure man sure man's

disease right there was when it's named after a doctor s-c-h-e-u-e-r-m-a-n-n sure sure sure sure man and that reminded me of um a couple of episodes ago we took i brought up schrodinger's cat oh yes and we debated how to pronounce schrodinger's cat oh yes and we debated how to pronounce schrodinger yeah because i for some reason i don't know why i thought it was schrodinger it's not obviously i did google what schrodinger was and the first 10 responses for schrodinger is a funeral home in america and that made think, if other people have made that mistake, I don't know. The level of uncertainty people must feel in Schrodinger's funeral home. Or maybe you do it as a sort of a hope.

Maybe it'll bring him back. I'm afraid she's dead. Or is she? I will need to observe that. Schrodinger's coffins. And then and then that reminded me again about pavlov's dogs because i always think of schrodinger's cats and pavlov's dogs what would happen if they were to meet up um and they just have they'd have stuff in common that they could talk about i imagine yes but also it reminded me that i think my wife's going to be annoyed for mentioning this on the podcast,

but for a bit, my wife thought that Pavlov's dogs were those ones playing snooker in the painting. So, anyway. They must have done something on the downtime. I've got a winning hand. That was her dog. That was her dog saying, I've got a winning hand. Would they call it a paw? I'm being a winning hand. That was a dog. That was a dog saying I've got a winning hand. Would they call it a paw? I'm being very discriminatory.

Let's get back to talking about the guy with the hilarious nickname. Old Crump. Mr. Crump. Also, crumping, as you know as well as I do, crumping is a very expressive form of hip-hop dance. Yep. I don't need to tell you any more about it. You know all about it.

It's unnecessary. It's unnecessary to ask me to go into any detail. Yeah. It's understood that I know. This came at a very fortuitous time for me because I've been casting around trying to find a really good haunted house bit of folklore. And this one actually takes place over two houses.

So we've got two haunted houses in this. The neighbouring villages of Oldsworth and Sherbourne, these are in Gloucestershire kind of near north leach oh oh right yeah yeah yeah have we talked about the origin of the name sherbin before no i don't know there are sherbins all over the country because there is one in the palatinate county of durham hey where i grew up, Sherbourne was the next village over where everyone was really rough and scary. We were like, oh, you reckon you're a bad lad? Well, you're not as bad as a Sherbourne lad

because they smoke. Do they? That's what it was like when I was at school. Yeah, they would smoke and be generally rougher than we were. The equivalent of the Barton lads then. What are the Barton lads? Well, they're people from Middle Barton.

So is that a specific reference to your school? Yes. Right. It was some universal measure, the Barton lads. Yeah, exactly. I mean, now that we look back, this is classism expressed through children. So I don't feel so great about it. Oh, yeah, that's bad.

But the origin of the name Sherban, and the reason there are lots of them, is it's a balderisation of... Well, I can't say it on the podcast because it's going to be bleeped. But the origin of the name Sherban, and the reason there are lots of them, is it's a boulderisation of... Well, I can't say it on the podcast because it's going to be bleeped, but it's... Oh. People, listeners will just have to guess what the bleeped part of... is. But it means the toilet-y stream,

the stream that people used to carry out their daily business. Oh. That's what the name comes from. Oh, burn as in like a stream? Burn as in a stream. Right. And that wasn't considered offensive until probably Victorians. Later on, people thought, well, we can't be writing that on maps.

And so the name has to be cleaned up. But that's why there's one in lots of different areas, because it's named after the burn. Wow. Good little factoid there. That is a brilliant factoid. Whenever I bring a fact onto the podcast, I always have to check it afterwards during the edit to see if it's true.

But I think I'm on safe ground. Are you sure that's not another bit of bullying for your Sherburn neighbours? Just a diss. It's where Sherbert came from. Leave us alone. Which was originally S***bird. S***bird dib-dub.

Which is also a form of hip-hop dancing. But anyway, there's two villages. Well, I did actually find some stuff about your Sherburn. Oh, yeah? There's a bit of bee-based folklore up in your Sherburn. A bit of bee-based folklore? A bit of bee-based folklore, yes. You probably know, being down the road the road from it no i've never heard any bee-based folklore the first bit of bee-based folklore is there there was a man a poor man

who had a beehive but one day his swarm settled in a rich man's garden this sounds like it's going to be like a one of them fables or something it's not oh right so it settled in this rich man's garden probably in belmont there where i was from oh really yeah it's probably flown over the scrambles from shervin to belmont just to contextualize over the scrambles the scrambles is the bit of rough ground in between the two towns where all of the clashes occurred did you grow up on the eastern front well all right so they might have gone over the scrambles so the bees settled in this rich man's garden he was like they're my bees now mate i'm having them if the bees want to be in this rich man's garden then who am i to stop them and which is what i imagine the plot of indecent

proposal is but with more bees obviously um the poor man went over and said, in essence, bees, show me where you really want to live. And they all settled on his face, on his beard, and he walked them back home. As a beard of bees, he got his bees back. That's the bee-based folklore. You're right. There's absolutely no lesson in that no i was really looking for an asap like moral there was a couple of other bee things do you remember in our christmas episode where i said about um bees around my way would apparently would buzz and dance on uh christmas eve that is also a myth up round your way it turns out i probably mentioned it in the christmas episode and forgotten but it used to be traditional to give bees the news when important things would happen

yes i that's that's reasonably local to just your area there's a few other places around not just durham but it is in durham i thought it was universal there was a tradition of telling the bees yeah if someone died or something you'd have to go and tell the bees that's the worst part of it sometimes isn't it when you have to tell bees. From the sound of things around your way, it'd be like, oh, I wear bees. Or Jeff's been smoking again. Is that specifically Jeff from Biker Grove? Oh, no, it wasn't.

It's one of the only names I can say with any confidence that is a real name aside from PJ. The bad news is, can he see? Noddy, you've got to give up the cigarettes, man. Anyway, this is presumably the bee now talking to Noddy. And the final bit of bee-based folklore for Sherbourne is in around the 17th century, there was a story of a woman who had a hive and sick bees.

And that's in a bad way. They were sick. Yeah, yeah. Thank you for clarifying. So what she did is she put a consecrated host in the hive. And that's the communion wafer, if you didn't know. I had to look that up. I was visualising a compere.

Just like an emcee. A vicar, though. Yeah. So we got anyone in from... You're all bees. You're all bees. I don't need to tell you the news. So who's single?

And it would be all the worker bees because they're in first arm. Oh, yeah. Oh, that would be a tough gig. So all of you are with her? Yeah. That's a lot of banter to be had there. But yeah, so she put this in and the bees got better. And when she went to collect the honey a few months later she opened up to the hive and

found that the bees had built a little bee chapel out of wax around the wafer complete with doors windows and a little steeple with bells in no no no that didn't happen i think that didn't happen james you don't think the bees made a little wax church? Complete with windows, doors and bells. You can't make a working bell out of wax. It won't clang. No, it would make a sound at best. That old lady is a liar.

You'd get to try it once and the clapper would stick. It's nonsense. It's a shame because I liked that old lady. I was warming to her and then it turned out she was just a liar. She had sick bees, man. Oh, you got some sick bees there, Mrs. Bees will whack. Oh, it's your hip hop background, isn't it?

Yeah, I'm just trying to keep the podcast relevant. So that is not the Sherbourne we're talking about. No. The Sherbourne we're talking about is in Gloucestershire. Of course. And it is the home, unsurprisingly,

to Sherbourne house and this is where the duttons lived and their estate was so big that their hunting lodge was in a different village oh the village of aldsworth and these are the two haunted houses we're going to be talking about sherbourne house and the hunting lodge and the person that i'm not sure if he built the house but he definitely built the hunting lodge or had it built was john crump dutton until you realize that crump is a horrible nickname for a disability it does sound like a very fun word doesn't it yes yes it does you know have you heard of the cronut yes of course i'm aware of the cronut james it's a cross between a cruller and a donut right it's a donut made out of croissant.

Oh, well, I've made a fool of myself then, because I thought it was a cruller. What's a cruller? It's a cross between... I've no idea. A cruller is an American thing, isn't it? It's like a bumpy donut. Is it?

I don't know. I've never had one. I'm a vegan who lives in England. Well, yeah, all I knew was a cronut was a... Yeah, it was a donut made out of croissant dough. And if you follow that name and convention through, then a crump would be a Trump made out of croissant dough. But they already have that one, and it's called Donald Trump.

That was my satire for the day. Very good. You're welcome. I spotted it. You're doing a one bit of satire for an episode at the moment. It's a shame there's nothing going on in the news. Very good. You're welcome. I spotted it. You're doing a one bit of satire episode at the moment. It's a shame there's nothing going on in the news to talk about. Right, so this guy, he was an

MP, old Crump Dutton, around the time of the Civil War. And do you remember John Hamden from the Devil and Jeremiah Stone episode? Yes, I do. He was a thief. He wasn't a thief. Alright, you royalist. He was the one who helped spark the Civil War. Oh, yes.

This is very much indicative of your cavalier attitude. One of the main things that sparked it was King Charles I asked for ship money. And ship money was a tax that the monarch could call upon in times of war from people on the coast to basically say, we need a navy and it's in your best interest you give me money to make that navy because otherwise you're going to get invaded. Charles I tried to collect ship money from everyone when there wasn't a war on. And that is what kind of helped spark the civil war because lots of people refused to pay it because like John Hamden and old Crump, they're like massively in land.

And they're like, we don't have to pay this tax. This is not our tax to pay. Right, so it was his poll tax. I don't know what the poll tax was. Was that usually only places that had polls? Yeah, barbershops, poll vaulters. We've got a maple, we get it out once a year leave us alone maggot yeah so he similarly refused to pay and he was jailed for it hamden was uh no um crump

dutton i beg your pardon he was jailed for it but then during the civil war he kind of played both sides off against each other he supported both sides until he saw which way it was going apparently due to this a curse was laid in parliament on him that's in quote that's what laid in parliament is the quote wow um that his family would die out in the 20th century and in 1986 juliet dutton an elderly spinster died without child and she was the last in the Dutton line. Wow, that's incredible. But also, what a ridiculous curse. That gives him plenty of time in hand. But also, in Parliament.

It's really inappropriate. In a couple hundred years, that's it for your lot. I think I'd be fine with that. Yeah? Yeah. Who cares? In 2200, there's not going to be any more Becket King. I've forgotten how families work.

I thought you were being cloned there. Now, going back to John, he was married a couple of times to quite rich women, and the rumour was that he'd done away with them and buried them in a long barrow near the lodge. Can I just be clear? There is a bit of a

lag here. So when I said, nice work, John, I was saying nice work, John, for getting married a couple of times, not nice work, John, for having done away with his wives. For the murder of wives. No. I think the implication is

there is a few other wives as well that haven't made history because I don't think they were. But that's what the rumour is, that he had multiple wives that were multiply killed and buried in this long barrow on his estate and now apparently the long barrow was excavated during world war ii by some overzealous gis that were stationed at sherbourne house they decided to

crack the case of the gloucester bluebeard yeah with with a bulldozer ah it's a little bit i'm not an archaeologist but my understanding is that it's very small trowels and brushes. Yeah. Rather than bulldozers. That's the American way, though, isn't it? Yeah. Bit much. Just a bit much, guys.

They were a bit much, these American GIs. Apparently, one saw a white figure walking through the churchyard and shot at it. And no one was found, and they think that was a ghost. What? And then apparently it happened another time, and they shot and they injured another GI. Yeah gi yeah but why why shoot it anyway because if it's a ghost you can't hurt it and if it's not a ghost don't shoot it they're just trigger happy is what they are yeah it sounds it okay so we've got the main house sherbourne manor and then there's the hunting lodge and then off the hunting lodge there's a little gatehouse lodge a lodge lodge yeah the

lodge of the lodge lodge a sub lodge yes in the way that a cupboard is a room within a room it sort of goes house room cupboard shoebox matchbox and what's smaller than a matchbox james beetle oh a locket a locket a locket a locket is a thing that could go in a matchbox, James. Beetle. Oh, a locket. A locket. A locket. A locket is a thing that could go in a matchbox and still contain something. Yes. And then a picture in that locket which contains memories.

So it's sort of like that, but nothing like that. It's just three different sized houses near each other. Yes, thank you for explaining. And in that, in 1926-27, there lived a couple who complained of ghosts. Did they now?

Yes. They had a back door which would open and close. That is convenient. By itself. Oh, by itself. Very much inconvenient. Exactly. You don't want that.

Whereas we discussed on a previous episode, you want to be able to know that your house is safely locked. You do. We were the first ones to make that observation. Yes. And I really think we've been proven correct. And I'm glad that we said it on a recorded medium so that idea is copyrighted.

Yep, yep. It was our idea to lock doors. Copyright James Shakespeare and ABK. Thank you. James Shakespeare Life Hacks making a brief return. You said, I really don't think James Shakespeare Life Hacks made any impression on the podcast up to this point.

What? It was a real... Sorry, I realise I've really offended you there. I'm just saying that I don't think any of them have been useful. The ice one. Did I say the ice one? What's the ice one? Well, what you do is in your freezer, when you've got your ice tray,

you think, I'm going to need more than 10 ice cubes. Just get a little plastic tray that you get when, you know, when you get a takeaway. Yeah. Get that plastic tray, pop that in the freezer. When your ice tray's ice has formed, empty all that ice into the little tray. Refill your ice tray. You've got two. Two ice trays worth.

What depresses me is that you weren't recognised during your lifetime. That's what's sad about this. That you didn't receive the recognition you deserved. Yes, thanks. People like me mocked you. One of the many ways I'm like Jesus. Jesus was there going like, what you do is, lads, you get fish and bread.

Okay, no, shut up, stop interrupting. It's good. You got a lot of people coming over. Okay. You got no booze? The idea that Jesus presented all his parables in the style of an internet life hack video. You want to get to the other side of that lake?

You haven't got a bridge. Sort of like those internet life hack videos, if you try them yourself, none of them work. So it's kind of the same. I've just got smaller bits of bread now. I apologise for the blasphemy, by which I mean saying that your life hacks weren't good. Thank you.

Please continue with the story. Yes. So, ghosts. Backdoor with a mind of its blooming own. And then the husband of that couple, he went to the outside loo, because this is the past, this is the 20s. Yes.

It was an outside loo, and when he came back, someone or thing had locked that backdoor. The wife would be my suspect there. That sounds like a hilarious marital prank. Or they've got a problem with the lock and she didn't realise it had gone out to the loo and came down and was like,

oh, the door's unlocked itself again. I'd better lock that. Yes. Get that scene too. Yeah. They didn't have Yale locks in the 1920s though, did they? It wouldn't have just slammed shut on its own and locked. Oh, I don't know.

It would have been a mortise lock, I so yeah it's so it would have required someone to someone or thing to do it i might be one of them a latch that didn't have an opening on the outside it could have been a latch yeah latch technology was around in the 20s latches have been around since probably the earliest doors you're listening to to The Story of the Latch with James Shakespeare. Life hacks and latches. If you've had any experience with latches, please email the podcast. And if you've got a life hack about a latch...

For God's sake, don't set up your own rival latch life hack podcast. That would be awful. I need to just register a domain name. And also, this husband, another time, That would be awful. I need to just register a domain name. And also, this husband, another time, he saw a white stag pass through a bush without making a sound. I really like that. That's very creepy.

Like a Patronus. Is that a type of doctor? Oh, it's a Harry Potter thing. I mean, we're both too cool to know anything about that. I did read one of the Harry Potters. Did you? But I was already 18 by the time the first one came out. How old are you, James?

Oh. I've always assumed we were the same age, but then listening back to one of the episodes, you said you had your first beer in 1996. So how old does that make you? Oh, I was 15. So you admitted to a crime on the podcast? No, you were allowed a beer with a meal in a pub.

Were you in a pub? It was the Euros. Or were you standing on top crime on the podcast? No, you were allowed a beer with a meal in a pub. Were you in a pub? It was the Euros. Or were you standing on top of a bus shelter? Roaring. Going, come on Europe, I'll take you all on. I'm 39. That explains why you're the boss of the podcast, because you're slightly older than me. I thought you were old as time.

Yes, as old as the trees and the wind. Yeah, you used to talk a lot about King Arthur. So you're listening to Lifehacks, Latches and Memories. I guess as we get older, it becomes more and more of just this. Just trying to remember the

order that things happen to us. Was it a Tuesday or was it a Wednesday? And so I said to Gene... No, it wasn't Gene. I'm 39, you know. And Crump himself is seen as a ghost. He's seen drunkenly driving a coach and horses up the lane through the fancy gates.

A ghost is bad news, but the last thing you want is a drunk ghost. That's like you're in Slimer territory there. Yes, yes. He's more food. Yeah, he's a glutton, but he's not a lush. Oh, that's a lovely word. A sot. Oh, yeah.

Sot is a good word, isn't it? You're listening to Words We Can Remember. Life hacks, latches, lockets and words. The longer the list gets, the better a summary of this podcast it is. This is costing me a lot in domain name registering. And then there is another coach and horses ghost seen on the nearby Larket Hill Wood.

And that coach is seen careering down a hill and round a corner. And I think that might be the same ghostly coaching horses. A different part of the same journey, you reckon? We know that John Dutton is drunk, so... Is this your own speculation, then? The facts of the case are being presented to me, and I'm putting them together.

Brilliant. Like a sort of ghostly jigsaw that's also a warning against drunk coaching. Yeah, you shouldn't drink and coach. No, God, no. Get a designated coachman. Or coachman. Yeah, yeah, that is the job, isn't it?

It is just a coachman, yes. So there's those ghosts. Oh, also, sorry, I forgot to mention that the lodge has a vanished room. Is this the lodge or the lodge lodge? Middle, the midi system, if you will. And what the hell is a vanished room? A vanished room is when you lay a ghost,

in the olden days they would get it into a bottle or little keg of beer. Sort of like, you know, the trap in Ghostbusters, but more boozy. Yeah. So a bit more fun. Yeah. It doesn't say how they get them in it. I guess it's probably prayer. And proton packs.

Prayer or proton packs. So you get the ghost in the vessel, and then you put that in a room, and then in order to make sure that the bottle or the keg is not disturbed, you brick up the room and brick up all the windows, brick up all the doors and stuff, and just leave it. Find a room that you don't use very often. Oh, yeah. Don't do it in your toilet.

I live in a studio flat. This is a very, this is like rich people on lockdown sort of complaining from their swimming pools, this solution. This is a life hack most people can't do. Just a room you don't need. Just brick that up. Just one of the rooms that you don't use so much. The spare billiard room. I'll just brick that up. The arrogance of the billi you don't use so much the spare billiard room i'll just break that up the arrogance of the billiard a room could be devoted to not it's not a game room it's

specifically a billiard room yeah can we have a quick go of darts uh not here what about snooker are you joking i'm sorry is it called a snooker room i don't think think it is. Get out. Get out of my house. Yes, you're in the right wing. You're in the game's wing. I feel like if I had any spare rooms, I would put up with the ghosts. For the storage. I'd rather have the storage space, yes. Oh, also they had a witch in their basement as well

so they probably couldn't have used that either. They couldn't have used the basement either because there was a witch in the... You really saved that to the end. There's an unconfirmed witch in the basement reported witch and apparently a black dog knocking around that burial mound we've done a whole episode on the ghost dogs of the cotswolds yes and i didn't mention then the snuffling beast of lidston which i feel i should mention now i actually want to do a special on that because that was a phenomena that was witnessed by some friends of mine.

You've spoken with a first-hand witness to the snuffling beast. Of Lidstone, yes. Of Lidstone. Yes. I'll speak to the Hardings and see if I can get them on the record. They might be reluctant to speak on tape

because of the fear of retribution. From snuffle or snuffles yeah that's the story of john crump dutton very good although i would like to know for certain whether he was a murderer i feel like the the ambiguity of we don't know because some american gi's blundered in handsomely they also say that the long barrow is still there is it and it hasn't got evidence that 70 years ago someone crashed into it in a bulldozer, that that might have just been a bit of an anti-American. Oh, right. They probably just went in and handed all the skeletons and nylons and chatted them up.

Yeah, big time. And now there's like a generation of skeletons that are a bit taller and a bit bigger than their parents. Are you saying that theicans had sex with the skeletons yes yes that's what and impregnated them thank you and those skeleton american babies came to full term and were born yeah that's so i'm saying the boomers it's not just people some of them are half skeleton yeah everyone's a bit skeleton really aren't they though yes a certain portion yes look if you look into it hard enough uh there's a bit skeleton, really, aren't they, though? Yes. A certain portion, yes. If you look into it hard enough. That was a really weird section of the episode, though.

Yes. Yes, it was, yes. Very strange. I think lockdown's getting to us. Yeah. Right, then. Are you ready to score me? I'm ready to score the flip out of you.

Score me like you would a bit of cardboard that you're about to fold. Thank you for assuming that I take the correct precautions before folding. Yeah. Category one, naming. Naming? Yes. All right, you've got Crump, which is an ableist slur. Definitely massively offensive.

Some points for that, obviously. Yeah. What else have you got? Yeah, there really aren't... I haven't even got names for the couple that lived in the little house. You've got a lodge lodge. Yeah, I've got a lodge. I like that.

They've got very generic names, actually. I'm talking it down. We've got Sherbourne House. That's got a name. And then there's the Hunting Lodge. And then there's the Gate Lodge, which is even less. So we'll ignore that and we'll go back to Sherbourne. Yeah.

Oh, yeah, that was good. Yes, Sherbourne. That's a lovely name, isn't it? Slash Byrne. There's some points. Because they've cleaned it up. For the modern age. They've Baudelaarised it.

Yeah. What does that mean? It cleaned up. Baudelaar, I don't really know how to pronounce his name. He was the guy who went through Shakespeare's plays, taking out the good bits, taking out all the rude and sexual bits for a prim British readership. Have they been put back in? They have been put back in. Oh, thank goodness.

Is that why I hate Shakespeare? Because all the nudity's been taken out. No, it's been put back in. Oh, thank goodness. But so Cher is... then. Well, I think so. I've googled it while we were talking and I can't find any evidence that that's true because the government doesn't want you to know.

So like sheer ness. Ness. The worst of the family ness. Ness. So naming then? I think it's a four. Yeah. I think it's a four for, yeah,

so half for Sherban and half for offensiveness. Oh, that's good. Category number two, supernatural. Supernatural. Well, you've got about 12 ghosts. A load of ghosts, just an assorted ghost menagerie. A real ragbag of spooks. Two coaches or one coach seen twice? Well, Detective Shake Shaft, I think, has cracked that case wide open or also closed the case.

The return of Detective Shake Shaft there. Yeah, ghost detective. Welcome back to the podcast, Detective Shake Shack. We had a white heart. We had a black dog. We had a witch in a basement. Yes. We've got... An inconvenient door.

The blueprint for the Pendolino toilet door. I think it's a five out of five for supernatural. Yeah, come on. I really think it is. Yeah, I think it ticks all the boxes. Okay, my next category. Yes. Vanished rooms. I really think it is. Yeah, I think it ticks all the boxes. Okay, my next category. Yes. Vanished Rooms.

No. Vanished Room. Ah, damn it. Curses. I felt a very low score brewing. But Vanished Room. There is one. Or is there?

I like that. That's a bit of fun Jonathan Creek business there. I've never watched Jonathan Creek. It's just counting windows. You've never watched... Stop the podcast. You've never watched Jonathan Creek. It's just counting windows. You've never watched... Stop the podcast. You've never watched Jonathan Creek? Yeah, no.

What's the hook? He is a magician's assistant who is called in to solve impossible crimes. Oh. Sort of like a hard-boiled reboot of Whizbit. Entirely no. But if that gets you to watch it, yes yes um right so how many points do i get for vanished room five yes i'm feeling very generous you've brightened my day with reminding me of

jonathan creek and whiz bit cool i thought i was going to get no points because i thought you were going to argue that there was no evidence that there was ever a room there. Oh, no. I could have given you a zero. All my points turned to dust. Okay. And I think probably the most apt category, number four, lockdown fever for this episode. This has been quite a feverish episode. Very feverish. There's some weird stuff in this episode.

Someone on Twitter said about that they listened to an old episode and then fell asleep whilst into it have very odd dreams this one i don't know if they'll know if they've fallen asleep for some reason people keep giving us that ostensible compliment because i love that your podcast i listen to it when i'm falling asleep isn't a compliment stop telling me that i listen to your podcast and unconsciousness seems preferable. I choose oblivion. In a way, we're having our revenge with this episode. This will surely infect your dreams.

Yes. Started off quite innocently with some light bee chat. I'm in a chapel of bees! And then it turns into the sex lives of skeletons. Disgusting. Five out of five. Oh my god. Yep.

No, I think you've earned it. I've only dropped one point that whole round. I'm getting soft. Lockdown's really working for me. I'm getting too old for this. Getting too old for this show. You've been listening to Lawmen with me, Alistair Beckett-King. And me, James Shakeshaft. If you'd like to support the podcast, you can. You can buy us a coffee, spelt K-O-F-I.

Mmm. Mmm, yeah, not a normal kind of coffee. That's K-O-F-I.com forward slash l-o-r-e-n-e-n. And we probably won't buy coffee with it, obviously. Mmm. And I can't record unless I'm eating caviar. If you don't want to give us any ear money, fine. Keep it to yourself.

Sorry, that became more angry than I meant to. Fine. Fine. Fine. Yeah, if we've offended any of the skeleton community with our work there, I'm sorry if you were offended. Excellent. Very good non-apology there. I hate when people just say, I apologise, but they don't actually say sorry. That's like saying LOL and not laughing.

You're right. Wow, I didn't realise there was going to be Shake Shaft's wisdom in this episode too. Oh, it's got everything. Latches. Hats. Words. Memories. Wisdom. Thank you, Emily O'Shea.

That was your fault. Most of that. Please direct angry recriminations and emails to Emily O'Shea.