Loremen Podcast - S3 Ep22: Loremen S3 Ep22 - Jenny Collier - The Three Plagues

Episode Date: May 21, 2020

Jenny Collier returns! Again! This episode answers the age-old question, "how many is too many plagues?" We discover that finding the dead centre of Britain is surprisingly controversial. And we ask hard-hitting questions about 1980s TV star and evil puppet, Pob. Questions such as, "you don't remember Pob?" and, "how can you not remember Pob?!" We also dive into the Welsh myth of Lludd and Llefelys and learn that London was founded by a Welshman. Who knew?  The Welsh knew.    @loremenpod www.instagram.com/loremenpod www.facebook.com/loremenpod @JamesShakeshaft | @MisterABK | @JenJenCollier

Welcome to Lawmen, a podcast about local legends and obscure curiosities from days of yore. I'm James Shakeshaft. And I'm Alastair Beckett-King. And today we have a deputy guest lawperson who you will have heard before if you listen to the podcast regularly. It's Jenny Collier again. Hey! Whoa, whoa, careful.

So what story is Jenny bringing us? I'd love to be able to tell you, but it's in Welsh. Ah. And I don't want to say it for fear of dislocating my larynx. Better just play the music then. Yeah, hit it.

One, two, three. Very nice. I mean, completely out of sync from my point of view, but I'm sure that's the internet's fault. When I've been doing the edits, I've been really trying to get them exactly at the same point, but it doesn't matter that much because there's lag. Yeah, all that does is preserve the actual lag that's there,

which we need to get out in order to get the hot-firing banter that our listeners are used to in our folklore podcast. And they said podcast. Has anyone done that? A podcast about P.O.B., the kids' TV show. P.O.B.? P.O.B. podcast. And they said podcast. Has anyone done that? A podcast about Pob, the kids' TV show? Pob? Podcast. Oh, my God. I don't know.

Pob means everything in Welsh. What's Pob Welsh, the puppet? With the sticky-out ears and sticky-out tongue. And he'd spit on the screen. He spits on the screen. It's disgusting. Oh, my God, I've never heard of him. He sounds awful.

You haven't heard of Pob? No. And he spat. Yeah, so he's a horrible, hideous puppet that heard of Pop? No. And he's spat. Yeah. So he's a horrible, hideous puppet that looks like Michael Gove. And he would come up to the screen and go sort of... And the screen would then mist up. I think he was supposed to be breathing on the lens,

but they couldn't do it plausibly. Because his tongue was constantly stuck out of his... And then he writes his initials. I feel like you made this up before you rang me. You're like, let's tell Jenny that there's a spitting puppet on TV. I'm not buying it. She's rumbled us. So on the subject of weird, disgusting creatures,

Jenny, welcome back to the podcast. That might or might not be Welsh. Oh, it's Welsh. Thanks for having me. You are, is the word trapped in Wales or are you there of your own volition? Well, I am trapped now, but I came here out of choice because I like to visit my parents anyway. And then all my work got cancelled. So I thought, oh, I'll go home for a bit. And then while I was here, lockdown was put in place. And in Wales, it's still in place. You basically live in Hotel California.

You're releasing very good and funny videos from your parents' lovely garden, I think. Thanks. Thank you. It is their garden, yeah. It is a very nice garden as well. Thanks. I'll tell my mum you said that. I think people are watching it going, I like the comedy. But also, that's a very nicely kept garden. Wonderful borders.

My mum is going to be over the moon when I tell her that. But we haven't got mirrors on the ceiling. Like Hotel Nowhere. Like Hotel California. Oh God, I was in a play called Hotel Nowhere and my brain has just mashed everything together. What was Hotel Nowhere? Did it turn out the hotel was hell? Was it a devised piece? It was a student theater production no i mean i told you that not a west end play when we were flyering people would say well tell us about it and we couldn't

because it was basically just a bunch of students in a pretend hotel room trying to get off with each other no we all we all did that sort of thing. Yeah. Especially, I bet, James. Oh, big time. James, you used to do acting, didn't you? You must have done this sort of thing a lot. Oh, yeah.

Mate, I did my A-level theatre studies in 99, so it was all about the Millennium Bug. The devised piece. Oh, my God, it was harrowrowing what a recipe for creating timeless drama yeah it was either the millennium bug or the play about trying to write a play about the millennium bug i am equally guilty but i'm not going to reveal any of my shameful secrets aka amazing story ideas yeah i've actually posted them all to me so they're copyrighted jenny today's story i'm a little privy to it i think it's quite timely isn't it it is yeah i don't know how to say anyone's name though when i was doing the research

okay because to my understanding a double l in welsh sounds like yeah is that not was that a laugh of that was correct or a laugh of that was very offensively wrong oh yeah i put if if i am at any point being um massively racist please do tell me it's just the way you made that sound then. You made it sound really coggy. It just sounded like mechanics going wrong. But it was good. I liked it. Do it again.

Yep, that's how you do it. It's the sound of an Emory board. Speaking about amazing ideas that you don't want to tell anyone or that you've posted yourself in a stamped dated envelope, I came up with a memory stick that is also a nail file and it was an Emery memory card. That's so good. Hey, you could use it for a pumice stone.

You could say, if your feet are feeling sad, get a chiropody sponge to chiropody your feet. Just something that occurred to me. I feel like I want to tell the listener that you made that joke before we started recording. Just shamelessly tried to do it again. It just seemed like the only place that I could. You'd shoehorn it and what part of the body do you use a shoehorn with again, Jenny? That is shameless behaviour.

So if LL is ch, then the name of this story is chud and chivellis. Close, but not quite. Go on. It's chliv. So double D is the sound that you hear at the beginning of the. Excuse me? So double D is like, some people say, oh dd just sounds the same as th but th sounds like but it isn't that is is more of a buzzing one oh like so his name's l-l-u-d-d

that's my best impression of a motorbike it sounds like pop spitting on the screen. Maybe that's why I think Pob was Welsh. So say it again. So it's Llydd and Llywelis, I think. Oh, God. And then they've got brothers called Caswallown and Nino. Like the sound an ambulance makes.

Yeah, I did. I've underlined that, if I'm honest. Nino. His name's Nino. You always hear him coming. That's the good thing about him. It's like the English version of the Sound of the Police song. Doesn't work as well, does it?

I mean, it's Ninian, really, but Nino is fun. Ninia. Nino. Nino. It's Nino. But it's only the two brothers, Hiv and Hlefeles, that we're interested in today, isn't it? And is this actually part of the Mabinogion?

Well, it was written in the 12th or 13th century, and it was added to the Mabinogion, so it wasn't part of the original Mabinogi. So it's like the Phantom Menace kind of thing, is it? Yeah, that kind of thing. Is there like a Jar Jar or like a Ha Ha being a character that everybody hates? Is that Nino?

Oh, but it turns out Nino was the big baddie all along. There's surprisingly few names in this one, actually. It's just these guys and their dad, Belly. Oh, Belly? Oh, their dad's called Belly. Oh, what? Belly the Great. Daddy Belly.

Bendy Belly. The version I've got, I'm working from that massive book that my dad stole from the library again. Oh, yeah. Myths and Legends of the British Isles by Richard Barber. He starts off by saying, Belly the Great, son of Managan, had three sons, Hlev and Kasueluan and Nenor.

And then the sentence continues, and according to the story, had a fourth son called Hlefeles. Just say four sons. Just say four sons. Yeah. And also, we're only talking about two of them, which is Hled and Lephelis. A lot of the things I've read about this, though, they do sound like they're trying to fulfil a word count. So it could be that. So what happened to these two of four sons? They were best pals, because Lephelis was wise and discreet. That was his best qualities. Never so discreet.

He was really discreet and he was so wise. And when you hear what happens in the story, you're going to be like, that is well wise. So Lavellus went and married somebody in France because he was so wise and discreet. They were like, you're going to be able to woo this maiden. And it was the princess of France. So he goes over there and he's like king of France. But Lleith is still in Britain and he is like king of france but he is still in britain

and he is like king of britain builds like a load of castles over the country and his favorite one and like the main one that he founds is kair kheith so he's called it after himself um kair is like castle of kheith him do you know where it is only london oh! No, he just founds London. He just goes, there we go. Which you can also pronounce laundress, which I'm gunnu from now on. And everything was going fine. So a Welshman founded London. You're just going to drop that in and leave that there?

Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I didn't know that. He's having a great time being King of Britain. Everything's fine. But he's suddenly beset by three plagues. So, like, one would be a pain, but he's suddenly beset by three plagues so like one would be a pain but he's got three on the go yeah one has been enough to really dent my enjoyment of general

stuff same z's and coincidentally his first plague is called the coronoid what it's like a mixture of corona and covid coronide but it's not a disease It's a demonic tribe that have come to the land. They're a hostile magical race. Apparently they're little people, like maybe fairies. Because corach or cor is like old Welsh meaning little. Right. And apparently in Brittany, in France, they've also got a bunch of little fairy elf folk called the Corriganid.

It might be the same little naughty little elves. And were they naughty over there as well as here? Oh, they're pretty wrong. I really want to see a detective show where you investigate magical crimes. I think it was the same naughty little elves. It has all the hallmarks of those naughty little elves. But I don't hear anything about what the naughtiness is. I know they're demonic and they're hostile.

Does Barbara say anything about it? No, not really. Just that only the thing that you can't talk about them. Guys, I've been talking about them for about a minute now. You didn't tell me that. Well, has the wind touched our words though? Yes. They could hear through the wind?

They can hear every single thing that happens anywhere if it touches the wind touched our words, though? Yes. They could hear through the wind? They can hear every single thing that happens anywhere if it touches the wind. And I suppose back then there was less walls around, so you couldn't say or do anything without them knowing about it first. Wow. So you couldn't plot against them. And their naughty ways. These unexplained naughty ways, yeah.

These guys sound dreadful. Then the second plague is a horrid scream that recurs every May Eve. And if you're pregnant and you hear it, then you lose your baby. Oh, dear. Yeah. Men lose their hue less bad. Unless your name's Hugh. And there'll be a lot of hues in Wales, but this was in London. Probably a lot of posh North London hues about King of England.

True, true. A lot of people who work in television. Oh, no, they're coming for the hues. I can't believe the Justins are fine. And so the scream affects plants as well and trees. They all, like, plants go barren, trees die. It sends the young people wild. Oh, but it would make the maidens and men lose their senses.

That sounds kind of a little bit sexy. Yeah, it does. Kids gone wild. That sounds like it has its good sides to me. Lose their senses sounds like forget their consequences and have a bit of a fun time. It's like, oh, yeah, oh, no, the plague. Oops.

Hugh? Hugh? Oh, God, Hugh. q q oh god q it's going to be equally annoying for the for the magical people that shout because they'll be hearing it particularly well wherever they are yeah the third one is a bit of a separate one because it's just disappearing food and not in a not not in a land going barren way, but just in a cupboards going bare kind of way. So they would fill up their cellars and larders for like a year's worth of stuff.

I mean, I think that's an error. If your food keeps going missing, don't stockpile. That's a message for our times is just don't. And so everything would just go in the morning. And when they'd wake up in the morning, the cupboards were bare. And so Liv was like, right, we're going to get to the bottom of this. So he gets all his noblemen of the land to him and he asks them what to do.

And they all decide, just ask your brother, because he is so wise. And so discreet. He's so discreet. He's so discreet. That's one of his best features. I've got an embarrassing problem in my kingdom. Who can I talk to? And so they get together all their fleet of boats.

And then they go across the sea. And then Llewellyn can see all these boats coming. So he's like, let's get our boats out. And so they sailed out to them. And then he was like,'s get our boats out and so they sailed out to them and then he was like oh it's my brother and so the brother comes out on it comes out from his fleet and then chavellis comes out from his so they're just the two of them come to the middle um ancient time social distancing and they greet each other heartily and are like oh mate i've got to seek your counsel about this and then chavellisus is about to start helping him with what to do, but he's like, he can tell that he's going to be overheard.

So he makes it so, it doesn't say he makes it or that he finds it, but he makes it so that there is a brass horn, which, again, is like a word count thing, I think. A brass horn is fashioned that he can speak to cleave through to not be heard by the coronide and they start to he was like don't talk about any of the plagues first of all just talk about other stuff first of all and through the horn cleave hears clavellus saying all kinds of horrible stuff and being really mean and then clavellus hears the same from his brother and they're like wait a minute and they look in the horn and there's a demon in the horn.

It's the one thing that the horn was made to circumvent. You'd think they'd have checked first, wouldn't you? Exactly. Yeah. The Koronide put the demon in the horn, but I guess because they've been able to hear everything thus far, they were able to like sabotage the horn. But then Hlevelis is like, I got this, pours wine into the horn and it flushes out the demon and they stamp on it. And then now they can now they can talk without being listened to or having their words twisted by the demon.

to or having their words twisted by the demon and so after sorting out all the demon the demon horn he's like right so let's sort out these plagues you got so he goes right first of all the coronide are intolerant of this insect do you need to get this insect crush them up and boil like braise them and then you pour them over the coronide and it'll kill them but all the britons will be safe and so um clear it's like okay that's that's one that i will do and then he's like the scream that scream you're hearing it's a dragon the the scream that makes everybody um have a horrible time is two dragons fighting one is a red dragon that represents Wales, and the other, the white dragon, represents, in inverted commas, foreign people.

There's a lot of, like, you'd want to throw something over the Coronide, which won't harm the Britons, and these dragons... It's gone really genocide-y at this point. Yes, it is. It's quite dark. But the two dragons fighting is what's causing this annoying thing. So you need to set a trap for them at the centre of the island. So you have to measure how long Britain is and how wide it is. And at the very centre, dig a hole, make a trap, trap the dragons, put them somewhere safe.

And he's like, OK, I'll try and do that. And then with the third one, he's like, okay, I'll try and do that. And then with the third one, he's like that disappearing provisions. That is a mighty magician, Magic Mike, I call him, who casts a spell on everybody at bedtime to make them fall asleep and then nicks all the food and booze. So what you have to do is not fall into the sleep, get in the cold water cauldron that you've put to your side and then that will make you see magic mike nicking the stuff and then and then you can stop him i love the way he has the means to put everyone in wales to sleep but not to magically he has to manually steal all the food himself like a reverse santa cleithdd is like, okay, cheers.

So he does the Coronide one. He gathers everybody together and he's like, I'm going to spill this all over you and it's going to bring peace to the land. And so he throws it all over the British people and the Coronide and then only the Coronide die and the British are like, oh, you had us there, but skills, you've done that. The dragons are fighting. So sure enough, Llyth

digs a hole in the centre of Britain. Where is that? I would have thought it would be Tamworth or somewhere like that. Oxford, mate. It's somewhere near Oxford, yeah. Is it? Middle of Oxford. Oxford? That's not... It's just west of London. Just go to the place where you can buy the least bucket in space.

And so he dug his hole there and he was to put a cauldron in the hole full of the finest mead and then put a satin cloth over it and that's a trap so that i heard silk oh well some say satin some say beaded silk and some just say cloth was beaded silk silk made by a bee it's kind of it sounds quite magical it sounds like something that a druid would use don't know or a part of a weighted blanket yeah yeah yeah maybe it's that because the because the point was that they would fight on it and then they would fall into it um and so when they were fighting originally they were these two dragons like having a furious tussle but then when they got a bit tired they turned from dragons into little piglets yeah i read this and then in their piglet form they fell onto the silk and then through the

silk falls down with them into the big cauldron full of mead they drink the mead fall asleep and then they take that satin thing and he puts it in the strongest place in the uk snowden and so he takes it to the mountain and puts it there i mean chavellis is really wise to have known exactly at what point to put the cauldron and stuff it's like when your dad does diy and you're like how do you know this how do you know how to make a damp course or uh i don't know yeah you've got two dragons fighting do you want to get someone in oh no that'll cost you just do this my dad once spent two days trying to assemble a tv table from ikea you guys don't know my dad he is not a handy man my mum does all the work that's the way it works in our family. So the shelves are all really low down in our house.

You have to know how tall my mum is for that to make sense. She's not very. They're just above the skirting board in our house. All the shelves. Is she a borrower? She's that hostile magical race of little people. A cariniad. She listens to this podcast, I just found out.

What, because it's on the wind? She's started listening to the podcast, and she just gets in touch to tell me which episodes she didn't like. I can't say which ones, but she's like, oh, that one. No, I didn't think that one was as good. The reason that you can't tell me

is it because it's me? No, that's not true. No, no, no, it wasn't. I'll tell you which guests she didn't like after the recording. But if we record this podcast down a magical horn. I'm sorry to interrupt. They turned into pigs and then...

They turned into pigs and then they got buried underground in a stone chest. And then the last one is getting the mighty magician to not cast a spell on fleeth so he keeps doubting himself in the water and lots of like funny wondering start to cross his mind and pictures and shapes in his head but he manages to resist being put under the spell and then sure enough he sees magic mike coming in with a hamper so not even discreet just like it like you know like when you go to a buffet you can't you can't like bring a bring a container with you sorry uh jenny i think you mean

a buff oh i learned a new welsh word recently as well pandemic so he gets his hamper and he and so the hamper is like that's giving it away mate if you'd just shown up on your own we'd have been like oh is he magic mike is he not but because you brought the hamper you're here you're up to no good and so they have a terribly fierce encounter where they like they fight one another and they have such a fierce encounter that glittering fire comes out of both their arms and cleave even though the magician is huge um cleave wins the fight i can't think of a single magician who i think would win a fight can you dynamite no david blaine might dav Blaine might, but only because he wouldn't know when he was losing. He seems like he's just gone in the end.

Yeah, but he might be emaciated from sitting in a barrel of pickles or something for two years. So I think any one of us could beat any magician in a fight. Whoa, that's not a blanket gauntlet to mix metaphors? No, that is a deliberate and conscious diss towards all magicians from this podcast. Well, just from you. On behalf of the lawmen, I'm officially dissing all magicians.

And so, Hleith wins, and then he says to the magician, what can we do now to make up for how bad you've been and then the magician says I tell you what I'll be your loyal servant forever and no plagues return to the land Wow

So that's the end of that That's the end of that And Hleif survives alive without any horrible death or murder occurring to him Actually yeah That's nice. Yeah. That's a rare treat.

Yeah. Just carries on living in Givden. I want to challenge the claim that Oxford is the centre of Britain. Whoa. But I didn't realise that the question of where is the centre of Britain is extremely controversial. Did you know that? No.

I've looked it up. So up in Northumbria, Holtwistle claims to be the centre of the UK. Northumbria? Yeah, but it's in hot competition with Dunsop Bridge. But get this, this is the way Dunsop Bridge in Lancashire, this is the way they measure it. If you took the British Isle, or Britain, not the islands, and balanced it, that's the place that would be in the centre.

That's how they work out where the centre is, like the centre of balance for it. Wow. That's the centre of gravity. Yeah. And also, are we assuming all parts of the country weigh the same? Because there's way more mountains in Scotland.

How have they worked out what Scotland weighs compared to flat old London? Yeah. And it's granite, which is presumably heavier than sandstone. Yeah, that's crazy. That is apparently the widely accepted official centre of Britain. And that's the way you work out the centre of countries. Wow.

Mad gravity. What's the name of this town? Dunsop Bridge. Dunsop Bridge. In Lancashire. I thought it just meant where's furthest from the sea. So like the very centre. So like the bit where you'd have to have the longest stick to poke it in the water.

The longest four sticks. I think that might be how Holt Whistle measures it. Is that in Northumbria? Holt Whistle is, according to Wikipedia, the midpoint of the longest north-south meridian. Okay, that's a different thing. Approximately the midpoint of each of the lines through it across Great Britain. Yeah, so it's the middle.

But apparently Coventry has been claiming it for years. For the last 500 years they've been claiming it. It's the middle yeah but apparently coventry has been claiming it for years for the last 500 years they've been claiming it it's the farthest point from the sea yeah yeah oh so that's that's your one jenny yeah they they don't sell lilos there i guess the thing is we'll never know and also that it doesn't matter at all yeah like people have got too much time on their hands who are measuring it they've either got too much time on their hands or a screaming dragon fight that they need to sort out but you're saying that because you you're imagining do it with a massive stick that reaches all the way to the sea four massive sticks sounds very

time consuming to me you would use the same massive stick four times you'd get four at the same time that's inefficient you know who wouldn't do that someone who was very discreet where you going with those four massive sticks can everyone duck yeah don't get surprised and turn around quickly then you'll kill everyone apart from the little people that's the opposite of what we were trying to do i'm very impressed with that story and i'm delighted about the fact that hardly anybody died apart from an entire race. And the dragons. I remembered the genocide of the dragons as I was talking.

But actually, we don't know if the dragons are dead. They're just buried in a strong stone chest. They might be all right in there. As drunk pigs. I think actually they are still there because in a Merlin story, there's a bit where someone wants to build a castle on this mountain in North Wales. And Merlin's like, no, do not build it there.

There are two dragons sleeping under there and you will wake them up. Don't wake up the meedy piglets. That sounds like the name of your punk band. Are you ready to score us, Alistair? Oh, yeah. I'm ready to lay out some scores. Well, should we begin in textbook fashion with Supernatural? What have you got there?

Hostile Magical Race. Yeah, an entire magical race, not bad. Of eavesdroppers. Very spooky. Really spooky. Of the ability to put demons in horns. There's also Horrid Scream by Dragons, two whole dragons. Yeah.

And their scream is magically bad. Yes, terrible, terrifying. I heard that it weak is magically bad. Yes. Terrible. Terrifying. I heard that it weakens men's sword arms. Oh, I didn't know that. I just thought they lost their pallor. It turns their hair white and weakens their sword arms. Oh, dear.

Dragons that turn into pigs. Turning into pigs was a real highlight for me. I didn't expect them to turn into pigs. It's like the sixth sense if you just turned into a pig in the final act people become like whoa you've got to see this magical spells to make you fall asleep and magic mike himself yeah magic mike himself with his hamper but we are visualizing magic mike from the film Magic Mike? I am. Yeah, especially when his arms get all glittery. Glittery fire coming out of arms.

When everyone falls asleep, I'm just hearing that music. The one he does the big strip to. I don't know it. Yeah, I think you know Magic Mike a little bit better than us. Magic Mike 2? No? Double XL? There was one.

Double XL is what it's called? Yeah, I think so. Has he gained a lot of weight Since the first film He's been eating all the buff Yeah Magic Mike XXL Which I suppose is what Magic Mike 30 They missed out Magic's 2 to 29

So I think it's 5 out of 5 for Supernatural And most of that is Magic Mike Nice Two to 29. So I think it's five out of five for Supernatural. Thank you. And most of that is Magic Mike. Nice. Glittery firearms, yeah. It's got everything.

It's like a panto. It's got stuff for the kids. It's got stuff for the dads. It's got Magic Mike for the mum. It's got everything. Naming. Naming. Clith.

Clith. Clevelis. Belly. Oh, yeah, I forgot about King Belly. Caswallown. Caswallown. The problem is I'm hearing you across Skype, so a lot of this has just sounded like general white noise thus far. I haven't really grown attached to any of these names. I like Cleveland, or whatever his name is. Clavelin? Clavelis.

Clavelis. See, there you go. I haven't even really remembered it. Cranyd. Nino. Oh, Nino. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

And the different names for London, like Caer Llydd and Llywndrus. I do like Llywndrus. And Magic Mike. And Magic Mike. I think it's a three. I'm going slap bang in the centre. What? You can't just come in here and say welsh noises

and expect five out of five every time jenny you're not gonna like my next category then do it do it l's specifically double l's and maybe i'd even like to branch out into double letters because we've got hlydd which has got two double letters in a five-letter word. Hello. And none of those letters sound like what they look like to English eyes. Exactly. Not one of them. Llydd. Yep.

Llyvellish. Caswallown. Nino. Car Llydd. One, two, three, four, five. Five points. But that's five lots of double letters. I don't see how I can argue with that. The maths seems to hold up.

I think really it's ten. Technically it's ten points. We're counting each letter individually. There's like a mist of spittle surrounding all of us. All the electronics we're using to record are starting to short circuit because of all of the klez sounds. Yeah, it's five out of five for double letters. Fair play.

Thanks. You got me yes and the final category is reverse Santa not the sex position which we'd all love

to try with Magic Mike yeah but the sound of the jingle bells really is annoying but like the big dragon battle it only happens once a year

come on there aren't many folk stories with reverse santas in are there or are there no i can't think of any well there's all the racist ones from mainland europe about um schwartzapete oh yeah so you've taken the racist character of black peter and taken away the racist element of it yeah so we've turned him into a big Chippendale. I really like reverse Santa. There are a lot of things in this story that could be construed as sex positions, like talking down both ends of the golden horn. Yeah.

Weakening your sword arm. Draining your hue I was drinking water there and you nearly made me spit and create a new Welsh word alright it's five out of five yay yeah I don't see how I can argue

it's five out of five for reverse Santa thanks Father Christmas in Welsh. Santa Claus. Father Christmas' name in Welsh is Sian Corn. Sean Connery? I watched Diamonds Are Forever last night,

talking of timeless classics. That has aged very poorly. Pretty homophobic, isn't it? Oh, it's absolutely awful. It's one of the worst films I've ever seen. But you know those two men? Yeah. That one of them's bald with glasses and the other one isn't?

Uh-huh. The one that isn't is Crispin Glover's dad. Crispin Glover, the dad from... Back to the Future. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. That is going to be a YouTube rabbit hole that I'm going to disappear down later.

Love researching Crispin Glover. While you're there, look up Back to the Future Predicted 9-11. Honestly, it's brilliant. This is yet another episode of the podcast where you bring up the fact that Back to the Future Predicted 9-11. It's Back to the Future 2, technically. Back to the Future referenced the Kennedy assassination. Wow. Oh, yeah, but it was made after that.

Yeah, but it was set before it. Oh, OK. OK, that's less creepy. I've realised why I think pub is Welsh, because there's a soap opera. Publicum. Publicum, which means go... go Well there was a lot of rude stuff in that episode James. I'm not sure how much

of it's going to make it into the edit. Sorry Alistair's mum. She has a name James It's Cathy. Cathy King? Cathy King. Sorry, Alistair's mum. She has a name, James. It's Cathy. Cathy King? Cathy King. Sounds like a superhero. Like a secret identity. If you've enjoyed this episode of Lawmen,

you could like or subscribe, leave us a comment, recommend us to a friend, or you could even sling us a couple of quid on coffee.com. And if you're Cathy King, once again I'm very sorry.