Loremen Podcast - S3 Ep9: Loremen S3 Ep9 - The Roaring Bull of Bagbury

Episode Date: February 20, 2020

Like all great tales, this episode begins with a riddle and ends with a warning... The Roaring Bull of Bagbury is certainly a unique story that sparks off some sinister memories from James' past. And poses a few of life's bigger questions - What are the Mooies? What size is a small pineapple? How big is too big a bull? MOOIE WARNING - contains talk of Mooies. Should have warned you earlier, soz.  @loremenpod www.instagram.com/loremenpod www.facebook.com/loremenpod @JamesShakeshaft | @MisterABK

Welcome to Lawmen, a podcast about local legends and obscure curiosities from days of yore. I'm James Shakeshaft. And I'm Alistair Beckett-King. This episode is the Roaring Bull of Bagbury. Not, as you might think from listening to the episode, Badbury. Yeah, I got in my head that it was like a Badbanbury. Not, and you might think from listening to the episode, Badbury. Yeah, I got in my head that it was like a Badbanbury. Like a bag reboot of Banbury.

Yeah. When I read it, it painted such beautiful and hilarious pictures in my mind. I wanted to share them. So, I think without further ado, let's cut to the chase okay this one is tangentially linked to if like i don't really have a claim on this one like geographically normally i've tried like it's somewhere i've at least visited and the closest thing i've got on this one is it comes part of the story takes place in bagbury and that's one letter away from banbury as we previously discussed the cordon of and the Cotswolds. Yeah, I mean, that's extremely...

I think it's offensive to the concept of tangential, what you just said. Also, I think we both pronounced tangential really weirdly. I just said chan-gen-tial. Chan-gen-tial. Chan-gen-tial. Chan-gen-tial. Tan-gen-tial. Tan-gen-tial. Chul. Tan-gen-shul. Tan-gen-tial. Isn't it shul?

I don't know. I think I've forgotten how words work, though, at the moment. We're going to have to cut the entire tangential tangent out of the podcast. Forget that. Yes. Okay, so that sounds tenuous. Yeah, Bagbury. So it takes place partly in Bagbury and another part in Hissington, which is in Wales.

Nice. Bagbury's in Shropshire, just by the Welsh border. Hissington's in Wales, just on the other side of the Welsh or English border, they probably call it. Or something in Welsh. Borra diddycumbru. I feel bad about that noise I made about the Welsh having their own nation and culture.

Language. Two minutes ago, language. Sorry, sorry, the Welsh. Sorry, Welsh. Yeah, Hel Cthulhu or whatever it is you say. Right, so the question this legend poses... No, I'm going to start. I'm going to give you a riddle.

Yes. Alistair. Okay, I love riddles. Why shouldn't you move the Hissington Church doorstep? Why shouldn't you move? Yeah, why shouldn't you move the Hissington Church doorstep? People need it to get into the church? Well...

There'd just be a big sort of like three-foot wall and they'll trip in? All the elderly ladies? Those are a good answer. It's heavy, it's made of stone. It's part of a building. What do you want? Yeah, there's a lot of reasons. The main one would be, though, you disturb the boot buried under there

and a tiny little ball will escape and grow to an enormous size and smash up your church. A tiny bull? Yeah, tiny bull. Tiny little bull will escape from the boot that is buried beneath the doorstep. A tiny little bull lives in a boot under the step of Hissington Church. And if it gets out, it will expand to a bigger than a normal bull size and F up your church real bad. That's the riddle.

It's not really a riddle, is it? It's more a general knowledge question. General knowledge? Yeah! Yes, this is the tale of the Bull of Bagbury. The bull is a wicked squire. He did terrible things to the people that worked for him. He made them work long hours. He swore at them. What? And he gave them nothing to drink.

I hate this guy. Yeah, he's a real bad dude. Apparently, he'd only ever done two good deeds in his life by his own admission. Once he gave a waistcoat to a poor old man, and another time he gave bread and cheese to a poor boy. Once for each of those events. That's by his own confession. I don't think I've ever given anyone a waistcoat. No. Was it his own waistcoat?

Or did he take the waistcoat from another person? Gave it to his favourite poor old man. Yeah, he was a rotter. We don't know what his name was, unfortunately. He might have been a squire, he might have been a farmer. He was basically a bad guy. He's only done two nice things in his life. And one of these workers, he was so angry at him,

he wished that he would get turned into a bull. And he was. Wow. I mean, I don't know why I'm surprised at this point. Because the worker wished it. Unfortunately, the bull he was turned into was an evil bull. He had flaming eyes and very sharp horns

and it would roar something terrible. It was known as the roaring bull of Badbury. It was also known as the flayed bull because it didn't have any skin at all how did you not mention that up top well i'm so i'm i am drip feeding some pretty sweet names throughout this um i've got something in my back pocket which i think we're all going to enjoy yeah it's called the it was called the roaring bull of badbury because it would roar such and this is the quote that's in uh law of the. It would roar till the boards and the shutters and the tiles would fly off the building

and it was impossible for anyone to live near him. Some called him the Roaring Bull of Bagbury. Others the Flayed Bull because he had no skin on him. So that's... It's terrifying. Yeah, exactly. I mean, just him not having skin was enough for me. That's too mucky.

Never mind flinging shingles about the place. Flingles, he would call them. Yeah, and a very loud voice. Flingles! Oh, yes, too loud. Like a bovine Brian Blessed. And sometimes it would appear in a sort of a humanoid form, which was referred to as a black man.

Now, they think this means more like a demon rather than someone who's of African origin. Yeah. I'm guessing more like a shadow man. Have I mentioned the Muis on here before? I don't think so. I'm loathe to mention the Muis because invoking the Muis may cause a Muis...

Was that the end of the sentence? Yeah. In case of a mooey... What, a mooey incident? A mooey incident, a mooey-based incident. So without asking my permission or the listeners' permission... Oh, yeah, sorry. We're all in this now.

Spoiler alert, you're going to get mooeyed. What, not to put too much on it, are you talking about? What's a mooie? What's a mooie? Well, right, okay, what it is, is amongst my group of friends, there was one, two friends who lived next door to each other. And one of them would, later in life, around his teenage years, he remembered that when he was a kid, he used to be plagued by muis,

what he called the muis. And he would wake up in the night and go to the top of his stairs and look down. And coming up the stairs would be these things, these muis, which he described as being made of shadows, which would come up and come to him in and he'd classic sort of nightmare scenario, try and scream, not be able to. And then he'd wake up in a different room after this mooie incident.

And he didn't know why they were called the moois, but he just knew that they were called the moois. Right. The other friend who lived next door to him mocked him about the mooie. You shouldn't mock a mooie. I mean, I've just found out about them, and I know that.

He learnt that lesson. Of course you shouldn't mock a mooie well i mean i've just found out about them and i know that because that very night he he was visited by the mooie the moois come for him yeah they come for him and all movies came from and all that night yeah so you just gotta be aware when thinking about i had my first instance of grey lady syndrome shortly after hearing about the moois for the first time. What is Grey Lady Syndrome? Is that one? That's the main name for it, isn't it? Where it's like sleep paralysis. That's the real name. That's the science name.

Yes. I had a sleep paralysis incident shortly after learning of the existence of Mooy's. And I lived on the same road as these two people. Don't sip your cup of tea confidently as if that's case closed first of all i don't know if we can say with any authority that you learned about the existence of the movies right i'm not doubting the movies i want to be clear about that you want to be careful about that as well i just don't know if i don't know that proves they exist okay so are you connecting the movies to the uh the angry bull of yeah the the corporal no not corporal the human humanoid form oh yes the humanoid shadow shadow bull man the roaring bull of badbury although as

i've also pointed out at the very beginning this couldn't be further from my house or the other guys's houses um well if anything emphasizesises the reach of the Moose. Yes. Terrifying. Fear the Moose. All the way from the West Country to Wales. Cutting a swathe. Oxfordshire's not West Country. Is that not West Country? Because we're like bang in the middle. I thought everywhere west of London was West Country. Actually, the reason I came upon this story

is because I was looking for another story that links Oxford and Wales, which I found in one book, and I'm trying to find a few other sources about it. It's to do with the three plagues, and a pivotal part of that story is that they go to the centre of the country, which is in the middle of Oxford. It isn't, but carry on.

Yeah, that is mentioned in this thing, but yeah, it's not the West Country is what I'm trying to point out. Okay, I apologise to the people of Oxfordford and wales and to the movies surely wales no ireland's the west country because it's a different country ireland's the old country apologies to the irish and the jamaicans right so this potential movie appeared late one night a servant was startled when the man version of the bull of badbury burst through his back doors smashed his back doors all right come on and walked through the kitchen and out the front doors which opened of their own accord in and they weren't this is in the past this is a long time ago in the past these were automatic doors he was not in a summer

field and even though they were locked as well so and the sermon locked the doors up the very next night same thing happened again back doors burst open the bad bad the bad brie bull the bull the bad bull bad brie the bad man bull of bad brie the the bad man bull of bad brie in his man form in his man format movie man format potential um walked through the kitchen out the front door opening it it opened as if by magic this kept happening every night which was frightening and annoying and it meant you like you want to be able to trust that your doors are locked don't you absolutely yeah because i even though i'd lock them i will have to check mine a couple of times of a night time mostly because of that

zombie grave that i found outside the house as i've discussed previously and if if a demon bull is manifesting itself in human form and opening your back and front doors that is a nightmare for your household security having to explain that over the phone to the insurance people yeah it would be difficult yes they are not going to underwrite that is it like a seven point mortis like yes however there is a man ball situation that i suppose i must make you aware of yeah you mean a movie potential don't bring them into this now the insurance people are into it and so they decided that they were going to need to do an exorcism and people flocked from miles around to badbury to help get rid of the roaring bull of badbury it must have been that loud they were led by one person and they drove

the bull to hissington church which was a little town again over the border not too far away hissington church what what sort of church was it oh it was the church of St. Ethel Dredda. Oh, nice. Yeah. Or in modern terms, Andrea. Not so good. Sorry, Andrea's listening. It's not as fun a name as Ethel Dredda, is it? Absolutely nowhere near as good as Ethel Dredda. If there are any Andreas listening and you'd rather be known as Ethel Dredda, write in.

They don't have to ask our permission. Just interesting to hear about. Oh, okay, right. Yeah. And they got to the Hissington church, the church of St. Etheldreda, and the parson read from the Bible. And as he read from the Bible, the bull grew smaller and smaller and calmer and calmer. But unfortunately, they'd only brought one candle,

and the candle started to gutter in its candle holder, candlestick. And the bull had got down to about the size of a dog which for me is an annoying turn of phrase because dogs are one of the animals that come in the biggest variety of sizes i think like i remember once a doctor described a thing to me as being the size of a small pineapple tell me how big it actually is like the size of an actual orange or a grapefruit that would be is that the size of a small pineapple what do you think is the normal size of a pineapple is this still with fronds on these yeah sorry i should have had with the doctor i was assuming that that i wouldn't count the leaves i was assuming we were thinking of the main body of

the pineapple right in australia they sell pineapples without the fronds. Do they? Leaves. What's the point? You need those. Just for the look. Well, that's the thing for the look. But so, when you describe something as the size of a pineapple,

why are you cutting the leaves off in your mind already? Efficiency. Okay. This is why we don't use pineapples as a unit of measurement. You shouldn't. No. And not a of measurement. You shouldn't. No. And not a subjective measurement.

Not a subjective measurement like a small pineapple. You want something objective? Yes. Yes. Yeah, like a 20 centimetre pineapple or something. Yeah. Just 20 centimetre sphere would be better. So it's the diameter that... I'm guessing.

I don't really know. Probably just about the size of a pineapple not a big one thanks thanks doc actually you were right turned out after all I think it's impossible

for a doctor to describe anything the size of any pineapple and it not be alarming yeah that's true even if it's one of the larger body parts that has shrunk

I think you'd still be worried well that wouldn't be good I don't think there's not much if it's your of the larger body parts that has shrunk, I think you'd still be worried. Well, that wouldn't be good. No, yeah. If it's your head or a kidney stone, it's worrisome news. There's not much in the body that should be the size of a small pineapple. No. Unless you've eaten a small pineapple. And even that's getting smaller by the second.

Just like the ball of Badbury. Yes. But only got down to the size of a dog. And then the candle went out and the bull swelled back up to massive size and started smashing up that church. So the next day they returned with multiple candles and the parson read until the bull got small enough to fit in his boot. got small enough to fit in his boot and they tied him up in that boot and buried him under the doorstone

where he is to this day. So that's why you shouldn't move the doorstone at St Etheldreda Church in Hissington. Very good. And a good lesson for us all.

I think there's a lot to take out of that i definitely would have tried moving that step this way you've really got to like if you if you're doing any sort of diy in the home you need to check for wires you need to check for you need to check for boots containing tiny little balls yep these are all the standard things that you need to be looking for. Yeah, and I just didn't know that. And some scores, then. Okay. What's the first category?

First category, load a bull. Yeah. Load a bull, right? Well, there's only one bull, but there's a lot of him. There's potentially a church full of it. Yeah, what are you saying? He could have kept growing. He got to the size that he cracks the walls of the church

and you can still see those cracks to this day, apparently. Really? Wow, you skipped over that. Yeah, I only read that in one version and then I couldn't find it again, so I'm not sure if I dreamt it. Okay. Wow, so that's almost maximum. So this bull would expand to fill any available space,

like a gas? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, like a gas? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, like a gas or a water or a supernatural bull. And also it had two forms that we know of. Yeah. Man bull. Yeah. And normal bull.

And bull bull. And bull bull. And also flayed bull. Skinless bull. Skinless bull. Yeah, inside of a bull. So it's man bull, bull bull, inside of bull. So he's like a transformer with two outfits and you can sort of click the skin off

and he's all yeah and then you can click click click click click now he's a man aka Mui I think it's four out of five four out of five

yeah yeah I think because if there had been a second bull he obviously didn't just expand to as big as a bull could be

outside of the world because it would just be an infinitely large bull. Because I'm thinking of the Derby Ram. Do you know the Derby Ram? Right, yeah. It was a really big ram. So I'm just saying I've seen big livestock before in other folk stories.

The Derby Ram had horns that reached right up to the moon. Okay. A little boy went up in January and he didn't come back till June. It's a song. That's a good song. It's a folk song, yeah. That's a lovely song. When he died, the kids turned his eyes into footballs.

Those are small eyes. It took all the men of Derby to roll away his bones, took all the women of Derby to roll away his stones, meaning testicles. Oh. It's a rude joke, but there only would have been two of those. So all the women, just for the testicles. Working on them goats. Oh. It's a rude joke, but there only would have been two of those. So all the women, just for the testicles. Working on them goats.

Yeah. And they pronounced it Derby rather than Darby in the song. So no apologies to the people of Darby for mispronouncing it. It was deliberate. So what I'm saying is... Because of rhymes.

Because of rhymes. All I'm saying is, I've seen big livestock, and so that's what makes it a four rather than a five, because I think we could have had slightly more bull. Okay, then.

I'm happy to take that, because I was worried you were going to do me on the old, well, there's only one bull in this story. Well, you did say a load of bull, not a load of bulls. So my classic plural trick didn't work this time. I think I may have found your Achilles heel. Next category, naming. N yeah um we've got the bull of oh yeah on that front because this is not from a place that i know i think i'm pretty sure i haven't

listened back but i'm pretty sure i kept calling it badbury i said it's definitely bagbury bagbury yeah like you might bury a. Like you might bury a boot with a tiny bull in it. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Never dig it up. Don't move that church, though. Yeah, Bagbury. Naming, come on. We've got St. Ethel Dredda. Ethel Dredda's church? Oh, yeah.

You slipped Ethel Dredda in. I'd hardly noticed. Hissington, even, is a great name. The Roaring Bull of Badbury. Oh, good name, yeah. Bagbury. Bagbury. The Flayed great name The Roaring Bull of Badbury Oh a good name yeah Bagbury The Flayed Bull The Flayed Bull St Ethel Dredda

I think it's a three Hissington It's with a Y So it might even be Heisington Well you're making a lot Of Hissington But if it's pronounced

Heisington There's no value in that No So I'm going to go with three Yeah okay Until we can confirm Whether it's Hissington Or Heisington

Or find out what The Squire's name was, because that's probably good. Because if his name was like Johnny Pinball or something, that's an extra point. But if his name was John Pinball, nothing. Okay, so that's three out of five. What's the next category? Supernatural. Supernatural. Come on.

It's definitely an unnatural bull. Yeah. The movies, an unnatural bull. Yeah. The movies, very scary, very supernatural. I also like the boot. I don't know whether the boot is expressly supernatural or is it the work of God. Well, it's used in supernatural manners, the boot. But is that supernatural or is that the priest suing them? That's an exorcism, so.

That's supernatural. Is it? It's not natural. I thought if it's God's work. It's not natural. No,orcism so that's supernatural is it it's not if it's god's work natural no because if it's god's work it's not supernatural supernatural is which is spirits flayed bulls inherently bad yeah or just not non non-christians i don't think christians would consider the priests activities to be supernatural well this is we're in a tight theological spot here yeah oh wait a minute are we arguing over whether a boot is supernatural yes we are right okay i think they're not natural they don't occur in nature all right i mean gloves yes you've got the fox glove all right four out of five i i don't think that's a strong argument, but I can't defeat you. Although, when it said it expanded, I can't not think about, you know, the Pink Floyd pig?

Yes. Or Mr. Creosote from Monty Python. That's how I imagine the bull expanded in a very kind of humorous way. I thought it was quite scary. It is, yes, uncanny. Yes. I suppose. Normally they grow slower than that. In a humorous way. I thought it was quite scary. It is, yeah, it's uncanny. Yes. I suppose. Normally they grow slower than that.

In our experience. Yeah. You'd be hard pressed to notice it. Hardly notice it. If you listen very carefully, you might hear it. No, that's it moving. That was a nearby mouse. Yeah, sorry.

And so what was that, four? It's four out of five. It's four out of five because you convinced me that boots are supernatural, I think. I'm not sure. I'm going to have to listen back to find out how I was convinced of that. The Eldritch Shoe. And what's the final category? Mooey Warning, five out of five, no questions.

Sorry, I'm not allowed to ask any questions on that. I do think a Mooey Warning... Do we have to preface this episode with a movie warning? Yeah. The problem is, though... It's like the gate. There's an alarm, a siren in the background

as the movie police approach. And those are movies who are police or police that police the movies? They're supposed to be police that police the movies, but I suspect movie infiltration. Corrupt. Yeah. I suspect some of them are actually working with the movies.'re supposed to be police that police the movies but i suspect movie infiltration corrupt yeah i suspect some of them are actually working with the movies i think the problem with the movie warning though is once you've given the movie warning you've already mentioned movies

right so a movie warning itself requires a movie warning yeah it's like it needs it's a super it's the super injunction yeah that's right of this of the super it's the supernatural injunction oh very good say so the safest thing will be just not to listen to this episode of the podcast yeah yes at this point now we should probably tell people not to listen to yes so like and subscribe and tell your friends not to listen to it not this not this specific one you've been listening to lawmen the lawmen of james shakeshaft and alistair beckett king please subscribe rate review and recommend to a friend you can tweet us at lawmen pod or email us at contact at lawmenpodcast.com to suggest stories from your area.

Next week, we're joined by the comedian Michael Legg bringing us the legend of Finn McCool. And he is very cool. I've forgotten what story it is. It's the Roaring Bull of Bagbury. Oh, not Badbury. Yeah, that's the thing. One of my favourite jokes relies on this town being called Badbury, but it's not. It's called Bagbury. Yeah, that's the thing. One of my favourite jokes relies on this town being called Badbury, but it's not.

It's called Bagbury. So I'm conflicted as to whether I should apologise. No apologies. No apologies necessary. The bosses. Sorry. Can't swear on the podcast. Play the music.

Also, that's McNulty's catchphrase from The Wire. Is it? Not my catchphrase. Are you... Really? That's not your catchphrase?