Loremen Podcast - S5 Ep18: Loremen S5Ep18 - Toby the Sapient Pig

Episode Date: February 1, 2024

Believe it or not, there once was a time when the hottest show in town was a pig doing maths. A porcine professor might not sound as binge-worthy as The Traitors or a double bill of Miss Marple, but back in 1817 people flocked to see this canny swine. James presents the story of a learnéd pig named Toby, as told in his own words. (The pig's own words, that is.) This episode started life as our Xmas Pig 2023 Livestream, which you can watch in full with all the trimmings here. LoreBoys nether say die! Support the Loremen here (and get stuff): patreon.com/loremenpod ko-fi.com/loremen Check the sweet, sweet merch here... https://www.teepublic.com/stores/loremen-podcast?ref_id=24631 @loremenpod youtube.com/loremenpodcast www.instagram.com/loremenpod www.facebook.com/loremenpod

welcome to lawmen a podcast about local legends and obscure curiosities from days of yore i'm james shakeshaft and i'm alistair beckett king well alistair we've got a little treat this week have we it's the christmas pig episode toby the sapient pig oh and you've held it back you've held it back so it's aged like a fine wine. Yes, or a jambon iberico. I've no idea how it's made or how it's pronounced. Now, James. James, level with me. Was there a microphone problem with this episode?

Tell me. I might have slightly fallen down a well. Only ever so slightly. I think only the truly eagle-eared will notice. Okay, because you're quite tall, James. Even if you were in a well, maybe the top part of your head would still be out of the well. If I was her out of the ring, it wouldn't be that scary.

So, enjoy the story of a very clever pig. I want to tell you about Toby the Sapient Pig. I have here a pamphlet. The Life and Adventures of Toby the Sapient Pig. I have here a pamphlet. The Life and Adventures of Toby the Sapient Pig. And I don't know if the viewers can see, but the highlight of this front page are the words, written by himself. Yes!

Wow. It's an autobiography of a pig. A pig's autobiography. But we'll get to that. So there was a fad for clever pigs. It began around the 1780s, and it was inspired by the horse of knowledge. Who's the horse of knowledge?

That was Morocco, the thinking horse. Okay. Morocco, the clever horse. Who, as far as we can tell was the original clever animal apart from some humans yeah marocco the thinking horse that he lived 1586 to 1606 and it was one of those animals that could they could count they could spell out words it's a thinking horse you know they would tap on the ground to count out numbers some of the clever pigs could guess people's ages i have seen a counting donkey at the circus before i mean arguably what i saw was a donkey that has been trained to stamp its hoof every time

the person holding it tugs on its collar and then what i think i was watching was the ringmaster doing maths in his head and then tugging on the collar to give the so basically feeding the answer to the like like that that guy who one who wants to be a millionaire but with a donkey passing it on to the donkey and i don't know if the donkey is in on the i don't know if the donkey knows that it's a scam i mean the donkey's innocent really it's just being used as a tool. When you said, who wants to be a millionaire, I instantly swapped it out for Britain's Got Talent. And I thought, I know I haven't watched it,

but just a guy doing maths, but he was being fed the answers. Yeah, it's mostly about counting horses. There's one horse. Oh, no, horses, that can count. Right, I get it. So it moved away from horses to pigs i guess because they're smaller less running costs on a pig yeah no the overheads on a pig almost nil because they eat they eat anything including pigs so well the original learn learned

pig was trained by samuel bissett can i can i jump in and raise a point of order here james sorry i've been i for the first timeames um sorry i've been for the first time in my life i've been playing the ace attorney games um so hold it point of order when you when you pitched this to me you said we were going to talk about toby the learned pig and i said yes and i've noticed that now we're recording it you're saying learned pig and in between times i said to you is it not learned pig and you said said, I'll look into it. Yeah, and I looked into it and it turned out it is learned. Okay. Yes, the original learned pig was trained by Samuel Bissett

and the pig outlived Bissett and was taken over by a Mr. Nicholson who brought it to London reportedly around 1785. And the pig reportedly died in 1788. 1785 and the pig reportedly died in 1788 but it was later reported that it had returned from france after the revolution and was ready to discourse on the feudal system the right of kings and the destruction of the bastille wow so this pig's a royalist well we just wanted to talk about it okay well might not have believed in it before i I take sides here, I'm going to have to know what its opinions on those subjects were, because if this pig is a counter-revolutionary,

I think it needs to go. It's an undead counter-revolutionary. One of the most dangerous kinds. Yeah. Samuel Johnson, who never saw the pig, but that didn't stop him from having opinions. Not surprised about that at all. He was having a discussion about how the pig was trained,

and someone present said it was probably tortured and to which johnson said the pig what's voice does johnson the pig has no cause to complain he would have been killed the first year if he'd not been educated yikes yikes samuel on the pig side because like he sounds like a Telegraph columnist. Oh, I've been learning pigs. In 1798, there was an American pig of knowledge, which was presented by William Frederick Pinchbeck. He toured major towns and introduced the pig to President John Adams. Oh, yeah. To universal applause.

Universal applause? Universal, universal. Not even worldwide, not even global. Universal. Wow, that's like the world series of introducing pigs to people i imagine introducing a talking pig not even a talking pig but a clever pig to the president like i'm a president what are you what are you doing so i think this pig can count it's like what do you mean the pig can count i'm the president this is ridiculous and you're not introducing you're showing me a pig i'm not being introduced to a pig what you've done is you've

shown me a pig so pinchbeck published a pamph uh explaining how he trained the pig and do you remember how we've talked about before in the past like you could call anything you could give things quite cool names because no names had been used yes so you could give it quite pithy names like old films have got like cool names like rear window psycho like when we were trying to name this podcast we thought about what the folklore but there is a podcast called that have you ever tried to come up with a name for a fake band or a fake coffee shop it's very hard to do because every band name or coffee shop name you can think of is the name a fake band or a fake coffee shop it's very hard to do because every band name or coffee shop name you can think of is the name of a band or a coffee shop somewhere

well this pamph was called this used all the words hold on i'm gonna genuinely need to take a big swig of water to do this the expositor or Unraveled, delineated in a series of letters between a friend and his correspondent, comprising the learned pig, invisible lady, and acoustic temple, philosophical swan, penetrating spy glasses, optical and magnetic, and various other curiosities on similar principles. Also, a few of the most wonderful feats... We're still in the title here, are we? This is still the title.

Also a few of the most wonderful feats as performed by the art of Legadomain. I think that's Legidoman. Legidoman. Which means prestidigitation. What? Or sleight of hand. With some reflections on ventriloquism.

Wow. So I think they don't really know what titles are at this point in history. I haven't quite worked out what titles are. If those pamphlets where you see the front page is just covered in words because they didn't have pictures. Someone said, paint a picture with your words. That doesn't mean cover the page with words. That's a contents page where you list everything that's in the book. That's not a title.

And then in the early 19th century nicholas hoare an illusionist exhibited toby the sapient pig here we go now we're cooking with pigs and in 1817 the autobiography was published the life and would you like just a little summary of toby's life yeah yeah you've twisted my tail let's do it what what sort of voice do you think toby would have probably quite a friendly voice um friendly friendly like a sundown clown yeah but maybe more there's quite a bit to read get a bit of pork in there can you get a bit of pork in there yes oh that sounds like bacon crackling in the pan beautiful beautiful so i was born in a place i'm rightly informed called avasal it's gone towards sippyippy from Rainbow, but I'll allow it. No.

My father was an independent gentleman who roamed at large, and my mother a spinster. I was one among many more who were the offsprings of an illicit amour between her and my father. Sorry, is this pig explaining that his parents, who were pigs, were unmarried? Yes. Okay, quite scandalousalous but also fairly standard for pigs and then a man basically a man comes to the pub and sees toby and just seems to like him

you know what it's like you have had a couple of drinks and you look over the bar and there's a really clever pig there who's that the gentleman after refreshing himself put me in a little box and let's be clear by refreshing himself i'm sure he means drinking well well actually that might come in later from the moment i left my place of nativity my preceptor became my constant companion by day and night asleep or awake he was all but few removes from me i wish all tutors would discharge their duties in the like manner if they did we should not have so many blockheads in the world as we see every day oh a little bit of stand-up come on am i right yeah what's the deal

with blockheads guys they didn't have a tutor around them at all times that's the reason and how we got his name is recollecting hamlet's soliloquy to be or not to be hamlet yeah i can see why that's his preferred play. Because he is a little Hamlet. He's a baby pig. He's a small ham, yeah. Yes. And the guy said to Toby,

well, Nicholas, I guess it must be, said to be or not to be, and that somehow sort of turned into Toby. So he's named after, he's got a Shakespearean name. No wonder he's such a clever pig. By the time toby was four months old uh he could read tolerably well and i know many little boys and girls at

four years old that cannot do anything like it what a shame they will appear to them and how angry they will be with themselves when they are able to read this my life that one of my races should so far surpass them at so tender an age. It's a bit of bits, isn't it? Why are you so angry, Toby the sapient pig? I never went hungry to bed, as many little ladies and gentlemen do very often. More shame for them. Wow, there's a lot more social commentary here than I was expecting.

Yeah. Young people today, says a pig, are blockheads. They literally are blockheads. Who are sometimes hungry. Yeah. So Nicholas Hoare was a, he was touring around.

He had an equestrian troop of some eminence. And then one day there was an incident or accident. One day, as we were passing a narrow lane, one side of which was a ditch, the horse before took fright at a man who suddenly popped through the hedge

and set off at full speed. The horse set off at full speed. So he's got frightened by a man popping out of a hedge. And it crashed into Toby and Nicholas's cart and sent them into the ditch. And Nicholas managed to find Toby. He was fine. From this time, I knew not the reason, but the affairs of my master every day grew worse and worse.

One misfortune or another attended him constantly. So his business began to suffer. He put all his efforts, though, into Toby, the sapient pig. By the time I was six months old, he deemed it fit that I should make my first bow to an audience that he had drawn together in a poor village in Essex. Now, can pigs bow? If they can't look up. Yeah, famously.

Which is a rumour. I think we may discuss whether or not they can look up in one of the Christmas pig specials. But if they can't look up, can they bow? Can they look down? Can they look down? Don't know. Just asking questions. Like Toby.

Yep. About the middle of my performance, a young farmer came in who I did not at first sight approve of. There appearing to be something about him which I had never before seen. He insulted everybody, more or less, amongst others myself, of which I took an offence. It was the first time I had ever seen a man drunk right my master i believe being one of the soberest men alive that frankly shocks me that the guy whose main main thing is clever horses and pigs yeah it's the soberest man alive that that surprises me yeah as our immortal poet says oh that a man should put an enemy in his mouth to steal away his brains

i'm sorry oh that a man oh that a man should put an enemy in his mouth should put an enemy in his mouth yes to steal away his brain to steal away his brains yeah i think i think it's shakespeare what was shakespeare getting out there putting a little tiny little man yeah in your mouth in your mouth and the man climbs up and steals your brains and you shouldn't do that no that's bad and you i don't feel like i need to be warned against that. What are you playing at, Shakespeare? I don't know. Taking the mick with his advice.

Yeah, basically, he disliked drunks from that day forth. I can understand. Well, I mean, look, you and I have done some tough gigs in Essex. Exactly. I've turned around completely on Toby the Sapient Big. I now regard him as one of the fraternity. One of the road hogs who travel around just trying to bring a little joy into people's lives and how are we how are we repaid

for our sacrifices with scorn well funny you should say that it was his master's determined it was my master's determination to accustom me as much as possible to the sight of the public under whatever disadvantage might present itself and to speak truth for a length of time during the winter of last year. Yeah, because stand-up comedy is just about telling the truth, isn't it? And the people don't always like it, but you've got to tell your truth, haven't you, on stage? That's what it's about. It's not about making people laugh or doing any work.

It's about telling the truth. And basic maths. And learning to count, yeah. MB in the chat is making an interesting point funny that this pan written by the pig and not at all by its master himself is so complimentary of the master great observation the greatest man it sounds like this master was the greatest man that ever lived he is sounding pretty impressive basically describes doing loads and loads of gigs sometimes to a beggarly account of empty boxes. So like, yeah, tough gig. Yeah, we've

all been there. You've got to pay your dues, as Ringo Starr said. The period at last arrived when we were to be solace for all our sufferings, an agreement was entered into with the proprietor of the Royal Promenade Room's Spring Gardens for my first appearance

before a London audience. It's big break. A metropolitan London audience is going to have to woke it up. They won't be accepting the same kind of truth bombs you can drop on the home count. He's not in London, no siree. I became the topic of the day. Expectation was on the wing. The prying eye of curiosity

was wide open. He's drifting towards ion. He's moving ironwood uh the day arrived that was to make me or mar me forever those who have been in a similar situation can alone be able to conceive what i must have felt as the time grew nearer it was dreadful however i possess a strong nerve and some small share of confidence. This is a big deal for him. Probably like Chris Cantrell recording a show for Radio 4.

You know? It's like, this is it. Will the listeners of Britain be able to understand a word I'm saying? Will they have to run it through some kind of AI in order to turn it into recognisable English? He's nervous. It's right to be. My first appearance was greeted with loud and reiterated plaudits.

From every part, handkerchiefs waving, fans rapping, placards exhibited. Placards exhibited! Placards? People brought placards? Or bear placards. We'll see how this goes. And we'll put our message on. Bring a blank placard and a marker.

Never till then was my heart so elated my master was mute in astonishment at the success of my onset and we consoled each other when all was over at the golden harvest that presented itself again i think that was a one-sided conversation the next morning the papers teamed with critiques of my performance but they twisted me sadly some of the editors from what they wrote. Oh, these hacks. Some of them just aren't brave enough to go out and be a clever pig themselves. A lot of them have failed clever pigs, yeah.

Toby implies that some of those critics, they weren't even at the gig. What? Yeah. Jeez, so outrageous. Yes. So he does go over one of the origin stories that was put around at the time that his mother um whilst pregnant with him went into a gentleman's library and ate some books yep that's good what happened to toby the sapient we don't know what happened to him

it's obviously an autobiography so the pig's still alive at the end they could they must have died but toby went on to become the name for clever a clever pig right i see just became the name and clever pigs in general became like a like a stalwart of satire it was shown as moral panic kind of thing there's one of those hilarious cartoons oh i love a political cartoon just an intricate drawing yeah way way too many speech bubbles this was called the downfall of taste and genius you could really satirize broad things like you just do a really big drawing called everyone but me's a fool and they're all stupid and i hate them and then you can just do a drawing of everyone you didn't like just sort of just falling into a toilet, having their trousers pulled down.

Yes, basically. The classical muses flee while the learned pig leads an assault on the arts as Shakespeare and Pope's works are cast aside. So yeah, that's the story of Toby, the sapient pig, in his own words. What a story. So would you like to score my pig? I would love to pass judgment on little Tobes. I do have one question, James.

Oh, yes. Did a pig write that? I mean, it says it here. It says written by himself. I'm asking you, though, now, James. You can't speak through... You can't speak in Toby's voice. This was reprinted.

Reprinted by Curious Publications. Did a pig write it, really? It may have had to dictate it very slowly. Like a brief history of time. Yeah, let's continue to sit on that fence. Nicholas Orr was an illusionist. Sorry, we're talking about the most

honest and brilliant and soberest man in the whole life. Yeah, the wonderful, sorry, the wonderful Nicholas Orr was an illusionist. So, you know, he might have been able to talk to pigs. Yeah, probably could just ask the pig what he wanted to put in the book. And the pig just oinked suggestions. I can see him sitting there at the typewriter and the pig oinking back and forth, smoking with a whiskey. Just trying to think of what to do.

Oink, etc. So, yes, let's score this pig. Let's score it category the first naming named toby the sapient pig great name exactly the name of that pamphlet that goes on for five pages great name it's got all the words in it the expositor or many mysteries unraveled blah blah blah ventriloquism pinchbeck pinchbeck very nice that was the guy isn't it william frederick pinch what does pinchback because it suggests the theft of a stream a beck is a stream isn't it a stream chicane oh yeah it could be could be pinchbeck is a form of brass an alloy of copper

and zinc mixed in proportions so that it closely resembles golden appearance brilliant googling ellie's gold fake Ooh, fake gold. That's good for a clever pig's owner. Yeah, what do you reckon for names then? Well, I think it's a three. But since it's Christmas pig, I'm going to make it four. Pop an extra point in the stocking for you there, Jack. Oh, like right down the end, like a pound point.

Right at the end, yeah, like a tangerine. Nice, thank you. Thank you very much you're very well take that the second category is supernatural well this is a challenge because several questions are raised did the pig really write it is one of those questions well another question is is it supernatural for a pig to be intelligent, or is that within the bounds of science? Yes. This is just simply a learned pig.

It's just simply a learned pig. The pig wasn't enchanted. It's not a haunted pig. However, one pig did want to talk about the French Revolution after it had died. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yes, I forgot about the zombie royalist pig. Potential, not necessarily. Just asking questions.

Just, yeah, just actually neither left nor right. All right, in that case, I'm afraid it's a one out of five for one possibly zombie, possibly royalist pig. Third category. Third category. I've got you on this one. It is amount of pigs of Christmasmas amount of pigs of christmas james are you telling me that you've planned to do five episodes over the christmas period

purely purely to win an episode win a point in the scores of our christmas live stream it will it win me the points i mean yeah it's five out of five for a mountain pig. Because this has been an absolutely pork-packed episode. It's like a tin of spam in here. It's better than most sausages. Oh, yeah, yeah. There's no mealy grain here. Not a hint of sage.

It's pure pig. All the way. Robes of Sanchez, classic Shake Shack move. Absolutely. What a schemer. Who is the real clever pig? That's the question I'm asking. I'm going to need a category from the chat agree. Oh, so we need to ask the chat to come up with a category. But are you telling me you've got a third category of your own?

Okay. Well, we're getting lots of suggestions. Charlotte's Web of Lies is being re-suggested as a category. Hogwash. Very good. But let's, yeah, let's do Sora's suggestion. Final category is from the Chattergrey. Thank you very much, the Chattergrey. Thank you, Sora, for suggesting category five. Charlotte's Web of Lies. Charlotte's Web has famously a clever pig in it. Got a clever pig.

It's confusing, though, because the name is about a spider, Charlotte. It's Pig Not Charlotte. Charlotte's the spider, right? It spins the web that's the spider named it after the pig i'm gonna have to find this out right now charlotte's web we need to live googling charlotte's web it tells the story of a livestock pig named wilbur and his friendship with a spider named charlotte okay great okay a pig couldn't live in a web it's's too heavy. Too heavy. But it is a web of lies. It's absolutely a web of lies. I don't believe for a second that a pig wrote that.

I don't believe that an illusionist could be that nice. I just think a story supposedly written by a pig, presented by a professional illusionist, is something that you and I, James, as broad-minded sceptics, ought to be a little bit leery of. Just a little bit of scepticism. I don't think a pig wrote it. And so it's five out of five.

Yes. Counterbalancing the one out of five for Supernatural. Thank goodness. A full five. A deep mince pie of points. A deep porky mince pie. That sounds horrible.

Oh, mince pies, for the benefit of people who aren't British, it's sweet mincemeat. Yeah, it hasn't got any meat in it anymore. They're a sweet dessert. It's meat in the old-fashioned sense of meat, like sweetmeats. Exactly right. You know what you don't hear about much these days, James?

Nosegays. What are they? I think they're just things that smell nice. Because everybody, presumably, used to stink, so you would carry around little nosegays. You'd have nosegays and sweetmeats.

Those were the days. But these days, young people are all blockheads. Now that episode was rescheduled because of Chris Cantrell calling in a favour. Yes.

He wanted to be episode 200. That would have made a really good episode 200 apart from me being in a favour. Yes. And saying he wanted to be episode 200. That would have made a really good episode 200, apart from me being in a well. That would have been a great episode 200, yeah. If you want to hear some bonus stuff, join us on the Patreon at patreon.com forward slash lawmen pod, and you get access to the Discord,

and that's where you'll hear first about things like live streams, live shows, e.g. Leicester Comedy Festival 2024. 2024. Which is coming up. Buy some tickets. Sometimes we just talk about Chris. Sometimes we just talk about Chris. Christmas pig mistletoe and pig

pigs singing Christian pigs with pigs on the fire oh this has turned dark pigs on the tree get out of turned dark and pigs on the tree get out of the tree pigs you can't climb