Loremen Podcast - S5 Ep2: Loremen S5Ep2 - Spiritualism Down Under with Bec Hill - Part 2

Episode Date: September 28, 2023

New York, London, Bendigo (it's a place in Australia). These are the three equally famous cities visited by celebrity apparition Katie King. Apart from being the daughter of the legendary pirate/drink Captain Morgan, Ms King was a world-wide spiritualist sensation in the 19th century. This is the story of her other-worldly jaunt to Victorian-era Victoria. This is the concluding part of Spiritualism Down Under, with guest loresheila Bec Hill, so check out part 1 first. If you'd like to see James and Bec come face-to-face with genuine spirit photographs... let us Ask Jeeves that for you: Spirit Photography with Bec Hill. Check out Bec's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/BecHillComedian And her podcast A Problem Squared: https://aproblemsquared.libsyn.com And join... us... at the Cheerful Earful Podcast Festival - 31st October https://www.designmynight.com/london/pubs/balham/the-bedford/cheerful-earful-podcast-festival-day-1 LoreBoys nether say die! Support the Loremen here (and get stuff): patreon.com/loremenpod ko-fi.com/loremen Check the sweet, sweet merch here... https://www.teepublic.com/stores/loremen-podcast?ref_id=24631 @loremenpod youtube.com/loremenpodcast www.instagram.com/loremenpod www.facebook.com/loremenpod

Welcome to Lawmen, a podcast about local legends and obscure curiosities from days of yore, with me, Alistair Beckett-King. And me, James Shakeshaft. James. Yes? Record scratch. I don't think the listeners realise that we destroy a record every time we do that. So, this is a sequel episode.

Episode 2 of Series 5 is a sequel to Episode 1 of Series 5. If you haven't listened to it, you wild thing, go back. Go back and listen. And if you did listen to it but fell asleep, what's a brief recap? Oh, if you don't remember because you fell asleep, first of all, I'm furious with you. Yes. Because this is not a sleeping podcast, it's a waking podcast. Yes.

And if you were driving... That's even worse. If you're listening to the Lawmen podcast, pull over because it is dangerous. You are placing yourself and others at risk. Yes. Last week we had Beck Hill, fantastic comedian, kids author, TV presenter and human. And we were talking about the Australian spiritualists and the ghost hoaxers of Ballarat and other parts of Victoria in Australia. There was quite a lot of spiritualists, Australian style, and there were also, there seemed

to be a craze for people to pretend to be ghosts and just cause trouble. Yep. Kind of like a sort of ghost flash mob. Very much like a ghost flash mob, yes. But with one ghost, and that ghost is armed with a weapon. There was also, I seem to recall there was another ghost who really did put the flash in, ghost flash mob. Yes, sometimes they weren't clothed. Look, you just need to go back and listen to the episode. And at the start of this episode, I've cut together a little bit from where you showed us a bunch of spiritualist ghost photography.

Yes, spirit photographs, supposedly showing the spirits of the dead. But James, what if you wanted to see the images themselves and hear your commentary? You simply follow the link in the show notes below or go to YouTube and Google Lawmen. And Google it in the little Google box on YouTube. Is that what they call that? Yeah. Just go to YouTube and Google it. Just get Jeeves involved.

Now you can listen to the episode. But first. Content warning for the B word, which is boobs. No, wait, I can't say the word. Can I say the word in the content warning for that word yeah that was it but it might happen again but is boobies a swear that i mean it's definitely disrespectful yeah i don't think it's a swear i think it's cheeky would you say it to a vicar oh would i say it to a vicar good point depends what message i was trying to get across to that vicar. All right. No to christening.

You and I are going to have to work this out while the episode plays out. Yeah. Let's just let them listen. This is our issue. So enjoy Spiritualism Down Under with Beck Hill, part two. Part deux. So, James and Beck, I'm going to show you some images from Australian collections of real ghosts captured by spirit photographers. And the first one I have for you here is a photograph taken by a photographer called Frederick Hudson.

The listener can't see that. Could you describe, James and Beck, quite how convincing this image is? Which one's the ghost? The ghost is the one on the right. It's a very flattering photograph of an old lady with a sort of Les Dawson-ish kind of arms folded stance, looking very unimpressed. It's sort of a Whistler's mother meets Queen Victoria look. Yes, that's a very good art history reference there. It does look a bit Whistler's mother-sy. And there is like the top half of a person,

but it looks a bit like a doll made of cake. We've got here Dr. Richardson and his and his sister hello let me make that clear this ain't right i think that was this is a a woman who's sort of kneeling a there's a man sitting in profile and then a woman sort of at his feet sort of leaning over his knees yeah looking deeply into his stomach yes yeah the eyelines are way off on this one, really. I don't know what they were thinking. Is the lady the ghost in this one? Yeah, the lady's the ghost.

Can you zoom in on this one a bit, Alistair? Oh, sorry. Yes. People were very impressed by the fact that you can see the chair through her head. But not his lower legs. But not his legs no yeah because that's how double exposures work i find myself wondering like what were the what i want to know is what

they told the people that they were taking photos of for the double expert as in like the ghost people like yeah i'll be in this position because we're going to get the person to sit like this. It's like we've all shot things where people are like, no, sound like that. It feels weird, but it's going to look good on camera. And then when you see it on camera, like it looks weird on camera as well. Oh, this is Guppy Williams. And I think the face on this one is the only scary ghost of the lot. Yeah, it looks like Thule.

Yeah, it's really, it's like a monster. It's alien. It's spooky. Whoa. Is that two ghosts? Or is the ghost the one, the veil? I think the ghost, I think there are two people and there is a veiled ghost emerging from betwixt, if I

can say betwixt. The guy, the standing guy is quite scary for me. His face sort of merged into the ghost. It doesn't look as well planned as some of them in terms of where the ghost is going to appear. And then is that a little Peter? Yes.

I think that's just a Victorian man, James. He's not a tiny Peter. Too many hands. There's a lot of... Seems to be too many hands. Yeah, it's a little bit proto-AI. The ghost can't do hands. Yeah, what's this hand? Zoom in on that. of seems to be it's got it yeah it's a little bit lots of hands proto ai but that is it the ghosts can't do hands yeah what's this hand we'll zoom in on that i think it i mean acidic might say

it looks like a bunched up bit of fabric but um it is i think it's more of a tiny skull oh that's what's great about this you can see whatever you want but it's no it's not a tiny skull it's fabric it's cheesecloth you can see whatever you want as long as it's uncomfortable victorians and and and finally i have an image of katie king a spooky image of katie king is she a ghost yes she is a celebrity spirit an incredibly famous spirit in spiritualism katie king was this before or after she died uh this is i mean yeah okay kind of this one is the only one that looks like a real person this is her um appearing uh in spirit form an image was captured of of katie king

um and uh was she a favorite was she famous when she was she was supposedly the daughter of um you know captain morgan from the rum yeah the famous pirate captain morgan what yeah that's that's who she supposedly was and uh she she appeared in numerous seances she was a she was an international sensation and the spiritualist magazine connection to australia we're gonna we're gonna get to australia that this this is the thing this is the story of how katie king celebrity ghost deigned to visit bendigo australia the um the spiritualist magazine um reported on the appearance of katie king and and this image and they were so impressed by her ethereal expression in the photograph and they they printed a reproduction a woodcut reproduction, which was, and I think I'm quoting

directly, as faithful a copy as woodcutting can give, executed as nearly as possible with scientific accuracy by an artist of great professional skill. So that was a picture of Katie King and here comes the woodcut i mean it looks like chris cantrell it looks like a cabbage patch doll it's like it's not a bad woodcut but it doesn't look anything like the mysteriously ethereal pirate princess katie like I want to laugh a lot because this looks nothing like the photo. But knowing that someone cut this out of wood, etched this out of wood,

to create essentially a stamp is very impressive. I wouldn't be able to do that. You're such a nice person, Bec. You won't make fun of a woodcutter. You're like, it can't be easy to make woodcuts. So... I mean as as someone who encourages children to try things in art arts and crafts um i don't feel like i uh can it is funny though it's not it's not as it's not as extreme as the fixed jesus face from that church that no no no it's not it's not monkey the thing is it's not as extreme as the fixed Jesus face from that church that time. No, no, it's not monkey Jesus.

The thing is, it's not a bad woodcut. It's a different Katie King. It's just a different face. It's not a mysterious ethereal face. It's a completely different person. It's a different person. That's the wrong Katie King. So I'm sure you can tell from the pictures I just showed you that Katie King has star quality.

Yes. She appeared in London, New York, not Paris, but perhaps Bendigo. What? Those are the big three. Get that on your T-shirt now. When you're touring the podcast, you know where to go. So Katie King was first produced by Florence Cook in London.

And Kirsty Logan's History of Ghosts on BBC Sounds has a really good account of her appearances in London and how a rival medium named Mrs Guppy tried unsuccessfully to expose Cook as a fraud. Mrs Guppy? That's right, Mrs Guppy. Was she accompanied by Little Peter? Sorry. Little Peter. Little Mrs. Guppy. That's right, Mrs. Guppy. Was she accompanied by Little Peter? Sorry. Little Peter. Little Peter.

Little Peter. What are you doing? Little Peter. James, you'll know Mrs. Guppy from her famous levitation, of course. Oh. She famously levitated from her house in Highbury all the way to Lamb's Conduit Street, which is so specific. Yeah, which is three miles.

Impressive. Although some people think that she didn't. Really? Yeah. Lamb's Conduit Street, which is so specific. Yeah, which is three miles. Impressive. Although some people think that she didn't. Really? Yeah. Every account of it is like, although sceptics said, no, there's no, they haven't got a rebuttal. They're just like, yeah, it didn't happen. No one saw it.

She just said, that's just like the kid that lied at school. Yeah. They said they nicked a quad bike and went to school that day i just yeah i know a kid who was late because a crocodile attacked him which in australia might be plausible but no not in durham there was a girl in my school who told us that she met the spice girls and got photos of them and then produced some photos of them uh and then not long afterwards uh you could buy those remember you could buy collector packs where it looked like a little yeah like a five thing of actual sort of was on photo paper and they would be like photos of like backstreet boys or in sync and you can get them

spice girls and i think she'd managed to procure a pack before they were officially released. And so her thing was, oh, I'll tell people I took these photos. And very quickly, we realized that maybe about a week later, we were like, hang on a second. I think she tried to tell us that she sold them. And that's why you could now buy them. Well, I, a child, sold the rights to my photographs of the Spice Girls that I'm not in. Yeah. At least she didn't, like, bring a picture in and it was clearly, like, her head stuck on Prince Charles' body.

Yeah. From that time Prince Charles met the Spice Girls. Katie King appeared in London. She also appeared in New York, produced by a couple of mediums called the Holmeses, Mr and Mrs Holmes. When you say produced, i know that you mean like like you know they uh made you know made them a pit manifest of ectoplasm but it does sound a bit

like they are producing a west end show produced by it is so showbiz though it is it's very it they are very much performances you know there's music and darkened rooms. And I've got my notes here so I can recap. So she was supposed to be the 200-year-old Welsh daughter of the pirate Morgan, Captain Morgan, known as the spirit John King in the afterlife for reasons that are not clear to me. for reasons that are not clear to me. And she was a sensation. She was a huge deal. People went to see her. And the reason the medium was said to be producing them is the medium would be locked away in the cabinet and then somehow, somehow,

a woman's body would come forth into the room and do stuff and mess around. Lift things up. Yeah, lift things up, yeah. She talked to people, according to the 1875 Tasmanian Tribune, which honestly sounds like a made-up newspaper, but it isn't. Kate talked to people in very bad English, as became a Welsh woman,

which is quite offensive. Yeah. I don't think Tasmanians should be scoring points on the Welsh. But they're not saying she spoke with a Welsh accent. Nope. So it sounds like it was someone who could not do a Welsh accent. This is in New York, so the likelihood of whichever out-of-work actor had got this role being able to do a Welsh accent.

You don't think it was the same artist played? I don't believe it was. It was like a franchise. Well, I think basically once it's out there, anybody can claim to be producing Katie King as long as they can create someone with a sufficiently ethereal expression on their face. Or who looks a bit like the woodcut. Or looks like the woodcut, Chris Cantrell, in a wig, yes.

She appeared in New York and she told the assembled people what a beautiful place the spirit world was. And she bestowed fresh gathered flowers presumably from the spirit world world upon her favourites and allowed portions of her dress to be cut away and then disappeared

I mean this was a big deal because this for people this was proof that their beliefs were real we tested the material and it's 100% ghost this is made of ghosts

it's white for a start what do you think lace is dead fabric it's like a skeleton of material yeah This is made of ghosts. It's white, for a start. What do you think lace is? Dead fabric. It's like a skeleton of material. Yeah. People were really, really impressed. Sensible men who took themselves very seriously.

In New York, Robert Owen and Dr. Child were regular attendees. To be clear, Dr. Child, an adult man, as far as I can tell. It does sound like like little peter can i can i come in to get away dr child he's just like some on someone's shoulders i'm dr child eventually dr child became suspicious and this is this is kind of horrible but but beck you might enjoy it because it's disgusting. He noticed that the spirit of Katie King, or Kate King as she was calling herself then, had quite bad breath. And while everything else up until this how convinced they were that this was a real manifestation of a spirit, started to investigate and eventually tracked down a widow named Eliza White, who had fallen on hard times and had a kid to support, who was the spit and image or spitting image? I don't know. She was.

She was Kate King. She was the New York version of Katie King. They tracked her down to her tenement and she confessed the whole thing. Wow. The Tasmanian Tribune says, Katie King is a buxom young widow in the flesh, troubled with bad breath and a short purse, who hired herself to the homes. This is a real hatchet job. Who hired herself to the homes is to delude the unfortunate believers in the new faith. Besides having a bad breath.

You've said it already. Three times now. Katie was troubled with some remnant of a conscience and broke with the Holmeses. But in the meantime, the gentleman investigator had discovered the fraud

and traced the woman to her rooms. Here he told her what a wicked thing she was doing and the girl confessed the whole matter. It appears she was hidden in the large French bolsters so common in this country and that whilst the bed and underneath it were completely inspected no one ever thought of looking in the bolster for the buxom widow we get it she's buxom and has bad

breath they can't do a welsh accent they cannot do a welsh accent so there were several ways that she would appear they had a cabinet with a panel that could be removed. She came in through windows. She came in through doors. And in that case, finally, when people were checking every single part of the room, she was hiding in, I didn't know what a bolster was. It's the big long pillow that I only ever see in hotels that they sometimes have.

You know, the one that looks like a punching bag on its side. Yeah, like a body pillow. Basically like a body pillow of a buxom ghost with bad breath. Yeah, smells at one end. Yeah, that's where the head is. And that's how she was getting into the room. It's funny how they never described the ghost as being buxom. Yeah, she was way, way hotter once she was alive, it seems.

Yeah, as soon as she was alive, they were like, whoa, check out the norgs on her. When she was a ghost, they're like whoa check out the norgs on her when she was a ghost they'll let us be respectful this is katie king she's 200 years old don't point out her boobs yeah this is an age gap it's not appropriate yeah ignore the ghost's boobs there's some great catchphrases coming out in this episode um so the way she did it was she would go into a cabinet through the missing panel. She had a black sheet. And so she would emerge in the very low light by lowering the black sheet. She would appear to levitate by standing on a stool covered by a black sheet. It's very high tech stuff.

I don't know if you're following this. Now, that was reported in 1875. Sadly, too late for Denovan because in 1874, he set out to summon Katie King himself. Again, this is the true Australian spirit. They read about Katie King. They saw the picture and they were like, you call that a manifestation? This is a manifestation. We're going to have a bigger, better, more Aussie.

More buxom? Version of Katie King. She's going to be twice as sexy as that ghost. Four boobs? She's a quadruple D. And so it's kind of a sad story because all of these people were being hoaxed. So I thought I would end it on a hopeful note

and read his account of what they thought they saw. Oh, wow. So it's a little bit tragic. So they haven't hired anyone in for this. They're trying to be... They have a new medium. They are being genuine. Absolutely. Denovan is not himself the medium. He's completely anyone in for this. They're trying to be... They have a new medium. They are being genuine. Absolutely.

Denovan is not himself the medium. He's completely taken in by this. So it's kind of sad that they were being taken in by hoaxsters. So I want to leave the story on a hopeful note. So here is Denovan's account of the time they brought Katie King to Bendigo. I know he was Scottish, but I'm going to do an Australian accent just to make it more poignant. Thank you. ago. I know he was Scottish, but I'm going to do an Australian accent just to make it more poignant. Thank you. Those who saw the face of Katie King on Sunday evening state that she wore

a turban on her head, just as she appears in the photograph of her published in the London Spiritualist. So the fact that she looked exactly the same as the picture that they had all seen was evidence that it was real and not that someone was copying the picture yeah the face appeared to me to be of swarthy color to others fair with fair hair parted down the middle but to me it appeared copper colored with drapery around it and over the head and she made herself visible to all present distinctly and unmistakably visible all became deeply impressed and several sobbed audibly none who were present will ever forget what they saw on this occasion, and the feeling of solemnity and awe to which the sight gave rise,

and all inwardly offered up their thanks to Almighty God for his goodness in thus having, by his great natural laws, vouchsafed to them by positive demonstration the reality of another life. It was a solemn yet joyous moment never to be forgotten by those who witnessed it and it's just the beginning i have now the satisfaction of informing you that we have no need to go to england or america to see spirits in mortal form as they are here in our midst oh that's good and then he says and another thing about the chinese and i'm just pull the mic from him at that point. Yeah.

I was going to say, well, of course, around this time, people did die a lot. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of these people are waiting to see their kids. You know, it really, it's, there is a really, it's easy to laugh. And we did. And to mock them. We also did that.

And we did. Well, it's okay to laugh when they're racists. Yes. It's okay to laugh at the racist racists. Yes, it's okay to laugh at the racist ones, but it is kind of sad. Or, for the purposes of scoring the supernatural category,

it was real. Oh, yes. Yes. So, James, are you ready to score me and Beck on our Antipodean spirits? Big time.

Yes. Absolutely. Thank you. You almost said that in an Australian voice as well. I did. I went, oh, big time. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Thank you. You almost said that in an Australian voice as well. I did. I went, oh, big time. Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'm going to score you. Come on. Yeah, yeah, nah. Wait, what are your cat-o's? Oh, categories.

I see. I see what you did there. Categories, yes. Well, our first category is, okay, this has been, I suppose, more hoax law than folklore. So I'm going to open with supernatural. Beck, we're going to have to work very hard to get a one even here. We're going to have to work hard.

Supernatural is the first category. A ghost with a gun, James. How could that happen? That's true. It's against nature. Explain that. A ghost going around lifting stuff up. Yeah, lifting up bottles, giving people cushions. Flashing people.

Yeah, exposing themselves. Ghosts being in a room with a door to the outside. With several doors and windows. Explain any... It's all beyond man's ken. How did Katie King appear in both New York, London and Bendigo? Yep. They didn't have Zoom in them days.

Nope, they did not. So I've got no idea. They had mediums. They were the original Zoom. You had to remember to unmute your medium. Yeah, that's right. That's why they would never talk. And just a cat would wander in in front of them.

Yeah. Your medium's buffering again. Yeah. We had the wizard bombardier in Ballarat. That's a wizard, an Australian, a wizard. You did have the wizard bombardier who was a wizard and dressed in a white hood? No, no, let's not get white hoods involved.

It was a tall hat with a cone on top, a sugar loaf hat. I'm sure we all know what a sugar loaf hat looks like. Oh, a conical hat. Oh, that's fine then. Yeah, just a normal, not racist, white conical hat. And he would yell things at people. We don't know what. When they explain a tall hat with a cone on top,

it sounds like a top hat with a wizard on top it sounds like a top hat with a wizard hat on top like a party hat on top of it like that people say take off that wizard hat i'm not wearing the wizard's hat the hat's wearing the hat is the wizard i'm just wearing a hat i'm merely its shoes yeah you're the one being weird. Also, I'm a ghost. So, come on, James. So many, so many potential sightings of the other side. The afterlife.

I don't... Captain Morgan, famous pirate. Yeah, who has to act under a pseudonym in the afterlife. Yeah, of John King. Wondering if that was some sort of pun. He was Jack, like he'd been working out. He was Jacked. He was getting Jacked. So he was like, I'm Jack King.

I'm the Jack King. And no one got it. Was it Jack King or John King? It was John King. It was John King. But Jack, in those days, was a nickname for John. Oh, because there's... No, Jack Daniels is a bourbon.

I'm getting all spirits mixed up. Oh, spirits. Spirits. That's how we know it's real. They're all spirits at the end of the day. So actually, you know what, Beck? I think you have managed to scrabble one point on Supernatural. Because Captain Morgan's rum is technically a spirit.

Yes. We're getting a point for Supernatural. Okay. Fine. I'm not going to get better than that. Let's move on to naming. Demon X versus Mrs. Guppy. Characters not really involved in the story.

I crowbarred in as much as I could. It's such a good festival line-up. You've got Little Peter. Yeah, opening. I see him as being a little flute-playing folk act, I think. He panpipes. Yes, the headline act is Mrs. Guppy. Watch as she levitates three miles.

Although some say she doesn't. Mrs. Guppy. Watch as she levitates three miles. Although some say she doesn't. Mrs. Guppy and the gold miners. That's good. Dr. Martin Jolly, the real person and academic. Yeah. Lovely name. Dr. Child is still my favourite. Dr. Child.

And Jason Denovan. My name is dr child i'm not a real doctor but i am a real child i'm friends with little peter and you'll never see us together that's such a sinister character you've created here yeah i the wizard bombardier of ballarat yes kate king which is almost your mum's name isn't it kate kate king which is it's almost my mum's name my and her sister's called so it it's it's my mum's name wow that's that let's not focus on how sexy the character is and then be chill yeah be chill we've got be chill i mean it's got to be it's strong it's five it's five it's a big five great great lovely that's really made up for our one in the opening category

my next category double category because we've got two two names um my my my next category is Unfair Dinkum slash Photoshop. Are you spelling faux F-O-U-X? You know I am, James, because this was your category and you came up with it during the bit that we had it out. I can tell that you want to make sure that it's getting appreciated on every level. Thank you. Photoshop.

You know that Adobe hate it when people use Photoshop as a verb. Really? Yeah. They're like, no, the product is Photoshop. You know that Adobe hate it when people use Photoshop as a verb. Really? Yeah. They're like, no, the product is Photoshop. They want you to say, I'm going to Adobe it. I tell people that I MS painted stuff. So, James, the category is... Unfair dinkum. Unfair dinkum. The least fair Unfair dinkum. Unfair dinkum.

The least fair type of dinkum. And faux toe shop. Like fake toe shop. Actually, Bec, while you're here, on behalf of all Australians, what is a dinkum? Great question, James. Have you ever seen a dinkum? I've never been asked that and I've never considered it.

But as an Australian, surely you can tell when something is fair yeah unfair dinkum is there an unfair thing yeah you tend to hear it mainly in marketing do you know i like it's probably used in an ad campaign since i moved here i imagine because there's like dinkum pies i think as a brand oh i'm gonna get a lot of australians angry at me for misremembering stuff from the 90s. But yeah. Do you know what? I think I'm thinking of Dunkin' Donuts.

Dinkum Donuts. There should be a Dinkum Donuts. That's a brilliant idea for an Australian brand. This is like we've summoned you as a spirit, but instead of the afterlife, it's just Australia and you're having to vaguely describe what the other place is like. She's brought some flowers. It's like, oh, it's a bit like, it's a bit like England.

And then someone else will review this and be like, I don't think she's a real Australian. She just appeared and threw pillows at people. Then she got back in a pillow. Yeah. That's a way to leave a gig, I think, inside your own body pillow. You could tell it was me because my breath and you're terrible well shaxson because frankly this is awful okay then great question um well

since we did so badly on supernatural because these were all hoaxes the essence of this category is these were hoaxes james oh and that's a good thing now that's a good thing. Now that's a good thing for point purposes. Okay. Well, they were all hoaxes. Very much hoaxes. I like that it was a fad. I'm a big fan of weird fads. Like that there was a fad for pretending to be a ghost. Ghost hoaxing.

Hashtag. Hashtag ghost hoaxing. We need to bring it back. But not in such a way that you get attacked like happened with the clown things. Don't take it too far. Let's keep guns out of it. And remember remember don't look at the ghost's boobs don't look them directly in the boobs or if you're a man ghost don't make people look at anything yeah frankly uh so i'm gonna go oh it's gonna be five out of five it's another five yeah it can't not be can it i agree good final category buxomness unexpected sexiness spectral source which is ectoplasm i suppose

none for me thank you well at the risk of sort of being reductive i feel like it should get a two what what what because classically, ghosts only have two poobs. That is extremely reductive to reduce it. But wait, wait, wait. There were at least three Katie Kings, though. Oh. On a per King basis. So you're maxing out.

How can we even put any of this in? I think we're on six by my count. And we're not doing Ludo rules. We're not doing bounce back. Oh, right. Yeah, it goes back to four. We don't do bounce backs. We don't do bounce backs.

It just maxes out. You're going to get another five for buxomity. I'm not sure it's that sexy a story. Well, they only... Do you know what? They mentioned the buxomity i'm not sure it's that sexier story well they only do you know what they mentioned the buxomness twice i don't think we should be encouraging it yeah i mean it is sort of like it is quite creepy yeah should it just be a point per mention are you telling me that you don't think the wizard bombardier is at all sexy no i don't think so if he's just there hollering in the street and you know what some of the flashing ghosts may have been women. In fact, in the ghost hoaxing, there were, because it started out in London,

and there was a naked woman who would cover herself in phosphorus paint and walk down the street glowing in the dark. There you go. Which obviously was dangerous because it led to a lot of people getting cancer and dying because it had phosphorus in it. Yeah, you shouldn't do that. Just more medical advice from our podcast there. Oh, why didn't they say the ghost had boobies?

Putting the boo in boobs. They totally missed a trick there. That would have been the headline of the old Tasmanian Tribune. I'm really scraping the bottom of the barrel. I'm going back. Like, even the miners weren't like sexy ripped miners. They were squatting like frogs. Toad-like.

Yeah. Arthur Conan Doyle might not have been into that sort of thing, but if we want, we can imagine them glistening, the reflected light of the gold glistening on their oiled chests if we want. You can't stop me thinking of that am i getting anything for that three yeah well i mean that's generous i've talked myself out of thinking it's even slightly sexy by this point yeah what a downer i'm sorry yeah i can't change the rules maybe it'll cheer you up to know that i looked it up and dinkum means fair or honest or genuine.

So it's kind of like going fair, fair. It's like fair is just sort of extenuating the genuineness, the honesty. Fair, fair? It's quite tautological. That's annoying, actually. I'm angrier than I was before to find out. Oh, no. This is some of the least dinkum dinkum.

Is this like the buffalo sentence where you can just keep saying the word buffalo and you've made a sentence yeah buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo dinkum dinkum that's as far as that gets yeah that's it it's two isn't it so sometimes the podcast ends when we just get really confused i think that's what's happened here beck yes thank you so much for being a deputy law person. Please return your ghost gun to the lockup. And please, next time, don't fire it off a roof. And before we let you go, is there anything you'd like to plug? You've got so much stuff.

You do so many things. Can you squeeze them into a short burst of information for the listener? Yep. I'd like to plug my book series, Horror Heights, which is the three books out now. The most recent one is called Dead Ringer. Look, it's technically for ages eight plus, but I wrote them for myself and made sure they were child friendly. So I'm just saying, you don't have to be a child to buy it and enjoy it. And that is available from all good book retailers as are our Stobec at Kingett kings i'm always saying the same thing because

kids books don't have v18 on them so really i'm just saving adults who want to read them money oh yeah good 20 it's just good value yeah it makes sense it's just good value if you want to save money just start reading kids books but begin with beck's books and my books yeah exactly and i do a podcast with a mathematician called matt parker who um some listeners might know from his youtube channel stand up maths and that's called a problem squared and it is uh where our listeners send us problems and we solve them are you good at maths i am not good at maths you do not need to be i would i would make it very clear that you do not need to under if anything i am on the podcast to ensure that any maths that happens is understandable by the listeners.

But it is very interesting. We found some very fascinating things like whether putting a teaspoon in a bottle of bubbly does keep it bubbly and for how long. Oh, spoiler. Do you know what? I'm going say that the the result that we got was not what we expected that's very intriguing yeah that was a bit of a mind-blowing episode we enjoyed that and also we worked out uh what you should get someone for their negative one year wedding anniversary which is when you know that you're getting married to someone but there's a year until the wedding um so you're having a negative one year wedding anniversary.

And we worked out what that gift should be. That's a terrific question as well. Yeah, we get some really good, really good problems sent in to us. Just on wedding anniversary stuff. Have you seen how they've moved diamond down? What? Diamond used to be like 40 or something. Yeah.

And it's been moved down to like 10. Yeah. I covered this in the episode actually, but a lot of that was decided because the anniversary gifts were, the gift list was originally the modern version. Sorry, there was an old version and there was a modern version redone in the 20s by the Jewelers Association. And they were like, well

not enough people are lasting until the Diamond anniversary so let's bring that down. Yes, that was a bit of a surprise because it went from tin which is also an Australian saying tan to diamond.

I think you'll find that's New Zealand, thank you very much. Oh, I'm nervous. It's my attempt at an Australian accent. Is wood Two diamonds. I think you'll find that's New Zealand. Thank you very much. Kiwi, same ten. It's my attempt at an Australian accent. Same ten. Is wood still in there? Still on the list? Depends on the list.

There's so many lists. There's like no official list. It's hard to get a gift made of wood or tin these days. A tree. A tree. And a tin. Nothing's made of tin. Well, that's why they changed it to diamonds. But that's a two bigger jump.

I know. If you've been saving up for that's why they changed it to diamonds. But that's a two bigger jump. I know. If you've been saving up for tin and then they change it within that year, you're like, oh, I'm burning. These are diamond brand beans. Yeah. You unfortunately can't open them. Break a lot of can openers that way. So, yeah, that's where people should find me and

i'm going to be putting out more um youtube videos as of next year oh yes so if they look at beck hill comedian or be chill comedian on any sort of social media platform or youtube they can find me there or if they want to check out the flip charts that's all online too nice one thanks beck bye thanks bye i'll see you on the Patreon feed. And that was Beck Hill with Spiritualists Down Under. James, in the end, what did the vicar say? I just texted them boobs and I'm awaiting their response. You texted a vicar?

You've texted boobs to a vicar? And I'm going to see if they text back a gif of them spitting out some tea. I'd like to thank David Waldron, the historian I mentioned in part one, because I had a lovely chat with him online, and he sent me more information about Australian spiritualists. So who knows? They might come back. We can't finish without plugging Beck Hill's bonus episodes, which I think are a bumper and bonzer, in fact, is the word I would use. Oh, they are ripper, mate.

Really, it's a really spooky story from Beck. And if you find yourself at a loose end, my book comes out next month, My Second Mystery, Montgomery Bonbon, Death of the Lighthouse. Please buy it. So this is how he describes it. Excuse me, I just want to... Do you mind if I pause for just a second to blow my nose? Mm-hmm. I hope he comes back in a costume.

Yeah. I hope he comes back buxom. Yeah. Ah, it's disappointing. Not even a black sheet oh yeah i the annoying thing about this is you both look um delightful and i do look like a victorian ghost always whenever i've got a webcam on