Loremen Podcast - S5 Ep24: Loremen S5Ep24 - Black Shuck with Long Cat Media

Episode Date: March 21, 2024

The cats from Long Cat Media lure the Loreboys to the wild, wild east. Lindsay Sharman and Laurence Owen (the excessively award-nominated podcasters behind Mockey Manor and Magenta Presents) are on the trail of a hound with a thunderous bark and eyes like saucers. It's a terrifying beast that can turn even the bravest churchgoer into a quivering, crumpled crisp packet of a man... Yes, this episode brings the Loremen face-to-snout with East Anglia's infamous Black Shuck! And we welcome back Old Shuck's alter ego: the man-scrumpling dog of Bungay. Join us for another Loremen Live in Oxford on 25th May: https://oldfirestation.org.uk/whats-on/loremen-podccast/ This episode was edited by Joseph Burrows - Audio Editor. LoreBoys nether say die! Support the Loremen here (and get stuff): patreon.com/loremenpod ko-fi.com/loremen Check the sweet, sweet merch here... https://www.teepublic.com/stores/loremen-podcast?ref_id=24631 @loremenpod youtube.com/loremenpodcast www.instagram.com/loremenpod www.facebook.com/loremenpod

Welcome to Lawmen, a podcast about local legends and obscure curiosities from days of yore. With me, Alistair Beckett-King. And me, James Shakeshaft. And a pair of deputy lawfolk, James. What? A brace of deputy lawfolks? Let me introduce you to Lawrence and Lindsay, the podcast powerhouse, better known as Long Cat Media, the brain boxes behind Mockery Manor and many other brilliant podcasts. What on earth are they going to tell us about?

Well, James, you love dogs, right? Yeah. Do you remember last week's episode was about a dog? Yeah. Here's another one. Oh, you wait forever for a folklore episode about dogs and then two come along at once. There's a spectre that walks abroad on the Norfolk Abroads. It's got four legs and a variable number of eyes,

and it's called Black Shuck. Hello there, James. Approach the bench. Oh, OK. Am I in a court or a sports hall? Or am I in a court in a sports hall or am i in a court in a sports hall to you in what situation would you have control over that you are either in a court or a sports hall i was thinking court i was hoping you would address me as malud oh yes uh malud sir quiet keep your voice down because we have a pair of double deputies double deputies a pair of double deputies. Double deputies. A pair of double deputy law people entering the court all rise. I'm not sure I've really thought the scenario through.

Are we the criminals? What's our role in the court? Silence! James, hand me my gavel. That's your role. Hand me my inaccurate gavel as I bang it. I thought this was a sports hall, so it's a rounder's bat. What are they?

No, I'm thinking of badminton. Those ones don't really make a noise. Rounder's quite loud, actually. Yeah. You can get a good wallop out of a rounder's bat. This is clearly a mistrial. But the listener, the eagle-eared listener, might have heard the dulcet tones

of one half of Long Cat Media, the the podcast powerhouse would you say powerhouse we we would love to say powerhouse yes we'll own that this is lawrence and lindsey from long cat now i'm sure listeners are familiar with your multiply nominated podcast series is the website it's just it's just no no no no no there's so many norms is the website it's just it's just nom nom nom nom there's so many noms on the website it's delicious

absolutely delicious are we over egging this a bit delicious over eggs it's an extremely eggy nommy

rate not just one podcast not like me and James who are pretty lazy really you've got Mockery Manor and The Ballad of Anne and mary and uh i think

my favorite is the the ghosted series you did as part of magenta presents which is properly spooky and has folk tales it has folk tales in it as well and folk tales as well do you want to tell us a bit about for the three people who don't know mock Mockery Manor, a very good comedy drama that has some lines read by me in the second series, which I think is the highlight of it. I'm in it. I would agree. Your voice is heavily featured in season two of Mockery Manor. You did more than read as well.

Not the kind of highlight that comes back for series three, but a highlight nonetheless. I think people missed you. I think they were waiting for you. Do you get any emails? Has anyone mentioned it at all? I mean, I'm just think they were waiting for you do you get any emails has anyone mentioned it at all i mean i'm just guessing they were waiting for you okay so there's no there's no evidence that i'm missed in seriously there were vibes vibes that you were missed fine well i'm losing interest in it a little bit but you want to tell us about the show so mockery manor is a murder mystery audio drama set in a theme park initially in the 1980s and then into the 90s. And it has overtones of Scream and possibly The White Lotus and things from pop culture that you like.

We can't move on without mentioning that production quality is incredible. Lawrence, you are a multi-instrumentalist. She's quite, quite annoyingly talented person in that respect. Would you agree? Well, I think that's rich coming from you, Mr. Polymath, but I will eat up your compliments. I am lots of maths. That's what that means. Again, people might recall I went on tour last year and I promoted it with an animated video that I did and the music spoofing 80s kids TV show themes. That was you. you made that happen you called me with

that particular commission and it was one of the most joyful things i've ever done well i'm i get lots of compliments on it and i what i do is not tell them that i didn't do the music i just absorb all of that and just keep it there are a lot of people asking for a full series i know and uh not quite having perhaps an understanding of how many years of your life yeah i think the people don't appreciate that um that's it's not practical it's really not practical lawrence lindsay you live in i believe norfolk in in norwich and that's that's by choice it's not a sort of a form of community service. Well, it might be.

Is it choice when socioeconomic forces have conspired against us? All right. All right, Karl Marx. Driven us from our little enclave in London out to the wilds of noise. I see. I see. So you were the liberal metropolitan elite. And now you're like the one person in a medieval town who has glasses.

We're now the horrible gentrifying force that takes over somewhere else. But you're happy to speak on behalf of the Norfolk region. Well, I'm actually very Norfolk myself. Oh, I didn't realise. I'm so, so sorry. I'm sorry for what I said before about Norfolk. I'm not sorry that you're from Norfolk. That's fair enough. I did a genetic test hoping that I was not Norfolk.

And it turns out I'm way too Norfolk. You're resoundingly Norfolk. The only un-Norfolk part of me is a bit of Viking because the Danes invaded about a thousand years ago and mixed up my genetic code a bit. Thank God. Just a little bit a thousand years ago. I would have thought things that happened a thousand years ago have settled down a little

bit usually and you're still quite Norfolk. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's about 80% Norfolk, 20% Dane. Great, great Dane. What is a Norfolk DNA test? How does that work? Is it the same as a normal one? Oh, it's not a very specific Norfolk, 20% Dane. Great, great Dane. What is a Norfolk DNA test? How does that work? Oh, it's not a very specific Norfolk test. Oh, it wasn't just for,

they weren't just testing for Norfolk? Yeah, that's, yeah. Okay. I thought it might be like some GB News type thing to see who's properly English. They dunk you in the river, yarr. So do you have a Norfolk legend for us? No.

No, I do, I do. I do. I do. Just teasing you there. So yes, I'm bringing you the legend of the Black Shuck. All of this information, though, I have to say, all of this information comes from Shuckland, which is not a theme park.

It's a website. I know, it's a shame, isn't it? A bit good, but not as good as Shuckworld. Shuckworld, much bigger. Smaller and more quaint than Shuckworld. Yeah, this is just a bit good but not as good as shuck world shuck world much bigger smaller and more quaint than shuck world yeah this is just a bit of marsh i like shuck land paris is my favorite yeah you don't want to go to euro shuck that's just a poodle on a bit of marshland so there is an excellent website called shuck land and so i'm going to tell you what Black Shuck is. He is a big spectral dog with red eyes. So you get a lot of these dogs throughout Britain, actually.

But in Norfolk, he's known as Shuck, Cheyenne's Shaggy Dog, Oud Scarf, Oud Rugman, Skeff, Shug, Monkey, Gallytrot, Chuff, and the Hateful Thing. These are all names for the Black Shuck. The monkey's a bit of a curveball isn't it i think i think it's oh sorry i actually misread that yeah i misread it it's shug monkey oh shug monkey of course oh yeah much more normal name for a dog that makes more sense yes sorry did you say monkey no i said shug monkey oh yes the dog yes so he ranges from a normal size retriever to something as big as he ranges from a normal-sized retriever

to something as big as a donkey, from a fiery-eyed fiend to a friendly walking companion, from a headless dog with saucer eyes to a Labrador who shrank to the size of a cat. Which is just a terrier, really, isn't it? It's not a terrier. Yeah, what they're describing. And the scary thing about it was that it was small.

I saw a dog. Was it big? It was about the size of a cat. No. Small cat, if anything. Sounds like a baby Labrador. The earliest account I can find of him comes from the Eastern Counties Collectania, which is a word I had to look up the meaning and pronunciation of.

What's that? I think it's just a collection of notes. So it's a collection of writings on the subject of the eastern counties. And this is collected by or written by, I'm not quite sure, John Lestrange. Johnny Strange. Johnny Strange. Which is French for John the Strange, I think.

1872 to 1873. And he doesn't give any of those cool names, but he calls it the Shook Dog. Old Shook or the classic Black Shook. But he has yellow eyes. Well, that's a bit weird. Is there one with green eyes as well? So it's the full traffic lights.

Yeah. Oh, when they go green, you want to get out of the way. Because to meet him means death to the meter in the course of the year, according to Lestrange. death to the meter in the course of the year according to Lestrange and and he mentions as you said there Lindsay that the dog occasionally leaves his head behind him at home and as a consequence is an animal more avoided than respected although every account agrees that sometimes he has no head but he still has giant glowing eyes whether whether he's headless or not this is this has happened before there was another there's another beast on the south coast somewhere that was headless with red eyes yeah well yeah this this dog has exactly the same

quality and sometimes only one eye have you have you met with our cyclops does he have no head because maybe that eye is the winky eye at the back of the dog i think that is just, you know, needs a bit of cream. I think that is one that you would definitely avoid rather than respect. It's unearthly howling. I was about to use the word cyclopean,

and then I always have to remind myself that cyclopean doesn't mean, and this makes me so angry, it doesn't mean having only one eye. Does it mean being big, giant? It means, yeah, oh, well done, James. So, cyclopean blocks in architecture are really, really big blocks that are very close-fitting that could only have been built by a giant or cyclops.

Because they were gigantic. Can you believe that's what the word means? Hang on, is that true? I mean, the last bit of that, that it could only have been built. Oh, no, I'm not. Sorry, to be clear, I'm not saying Cyclopses definitely exist and actually built them. But when people saw like old ruins, like the pyramids and things like that and things in South America, they said, oh, you know who did that?

Probably Cyclops. Hey, I've got a great idea for a word. Cyclopean. What? Because they got no depth perception. No, because they were massive. The other thing that everyone forgets about them. According to W.A. Dutt, who wrote, as far as I can tell,

at least three books about the region. He wrote Highways and Byways in East Anglia in 1901. A banger, I think you'll agree. Followed up with The Norfolk Broads in 1906. Difficult second album, also a banger. Then in 1910, probably your favourite of mine, The Norfolk and Suffolk Coast. The Norfolk andads in 1906. Difficult second album, also a banger. Then in 1910, probably your favourite and mine, the Norfolk and Suffolk Coast. The Norfolk and Suffolk Coast.

Hmm. He wrote a book about, yeah, he branched out to include the coast of both. And Dutt says the name Shook probably comes from the Anglo-Saxon Skooka, an early native word for Satan. Oh, I read it actually meant like fuzzy and furry and sort of shaggy oh yeah i think let's be clear i mean he wrote this in 1906 we didn't have playstations

in those days we didn't really know anything people were wandering around groping wildly at definitions so he might be wrong i think it's both both correct. How about that? But Satan is often depicted as being fuzzy and furry by nature of being a half goat person. Yeah. Satan sometimes is quite cute in depiction. Hot take. But is that what you'd lead with when you're describing the devil? Just a furry guy. I probably wouldn't.

Just a fuzzy fella. Just a cute little furry guy. According to Dutt, Black Shuck is probably the oldest phantom in England. And link here to your DNA, Lindsay, probably of Scandinavian origin. Oh, the Odin connection? Is that what this is? Is it that Odin had the ability to disguise his followers as an animal, something like that? As a dog?

Apparently he had a black hound, that's all I know. And the idea of dutt is that the black hound of Odin came to the coast with Scandinavian raiders. He means Vikings. And its lair is some secret place known only to itself, but some of its favourite haunts are known. And when the wind howled it was the baying of old chuck that was heard by the people trembling in their beds i don't know how to do a norfolk accents i'm just doing an old times voice it's a very odd accent the norfolk accent yeah i can't even do it the only way i can get anywhere close to doing it is by making everything sound slightly accusatory oh could you demonstrate well

well when when when you or i might say are you going to the cinema a norfolk person would have the inflection are you going to the cinema as if it's like well are you going to the cinema yeah oh come on then i would say that even if it wasn't a question yes would have that inflection yeah everything kind of lilts up and down and and uh in that sort of way the the place names of norfolk Come on, then. And would say that even if it wasn't a question. Yes. Would have that inflection. Yeah. Everything kind of lilts up and down in that sort of way. The place names of Norfolk. One of the places where the big old dog turns up is called Haysborough. Oh, yeah. But it's spelled.

Hapsburg. Hapsburg. Like exactly like the name Hapsburg. Yeah. That's the thing that the norfolk people do as well extraneous letters and very strange uh place names as well yeah there's a there's there are two small towns near us called scratby and flagborough lovely stuff which i think i mean there's a very singularly ugly collection of sounds i think that sounds like a pair of Dickensian moneylenders. Yeah.

Scrappy and Flagbror. They would be played by Phil Daniels and Timothy Spall in their roles as the two rats from Chicken Run. Oh, yeah. Also, I think the Norfolk Broads has got to be a good name for a vaudeville or drag act. The Norfolk Broads. They would have zero pizzazz, though, I think, to be a good name for a vaudeville or drag act the norfolk broads they would have zero pizzazz though i think to be honest i can say that as a norfolk broad myself with pizzazz i can say that do you have no but i think you've got some pizzazz oh no pizzazz sounds like a lot of energy needed you know jazz hands and things what was the story about the guy who saw Shuck

and then basically went, well, it was bound to happen at some point? Oh, yeah, this is very typical of a Norfolk attitude, actually, which is, oh, God, oh, God, be bothered. So, yeah, this story, where is it from? Oh, yeah, from Walberswick. Lovely. So, Leslie Goodwin of Walberswick met Shuck in a lane...

Well, it's spelt Walberswick, but it's pronounced Pazan. Yeah, I'm probably pronouncing it wrong, actually. So this is September 1962 from East Anglian magazine. So Leslie Goodwin met Chuck and Elaine not long ago. He talked of it in the most matter-of-fact way, as though the galley trots was bound to happen on one's life sooner or later. Well. So, you know, well, well, it was going to happen, wasn't it?

What are you going to do? Well, the galley trots does sound like an upset stomach, to be honest. It's ships. And those things aren't completely avoidable. Yeah, that's what ships cook put in the stew. I've got the galley trots. Have you got the galley trots? I'm trying to do it with a rising flexion.

Have you got the galley trots? Have you got the galley trots? And'm trying to do it with a rising flexion. Have you got the galley trots? Have you got the galley trots? And that's how you get a single red eye. Yeah, because you've got the galley trots. I've got a case from 1945. This is according to, by the way, Mystery Animals of Britain and Ireland by Graham J. McEwan. Gray J. McKay.

Gray J. McKay. Yes, so this happened in Hilgi. Hilgi? Hilgi. It's spelled Hilgi. When a man heard but did not see what he thought was a black shuck. Was the black shuck, rather. Heard but did not see it.

He became aware of a faint howling which became louder until it was ear splitting, accompanied by the sound of a chain being dragged along the road and then he ran away and the witness later wrote i later realized that this was the first time i've been afraid of a dog my hair was standing on end but why i could not understand i love dogs and i've never been afraid of the fiercest in my life he loves dogs that's really yeah explain that how a man who loves dogs could be scared i guess he'd never met an invisible one before yeah that's that is unsettling sometimes shock is is protective isn't it yeah yeah so he can be evil, but he can also be protective. He attack, he protect. I don't know what the rest of it is.

He also smuggle, which is not in the meme, but according to Johnny Strange, John Lestrange. Does he smuggle? No. Apparently there are some prank related, and this might explain your story, James. And this might explain your story, James. There are some prank-related appearances of, for instance, a large ram sort of dressed up with chains and shoved out of a hedge at an opportune moment to scare a neighbour. Oh, I've got a story a bit like this.

It's from the Norwich Mercury in 1860. So a witness said that he had been beaten by the ghost who was dressed in a tight-fitting cow skin with horns on and accompanied by a friend in white raiment. That's an assault rather than a ghost. And doesn't sound very dog-like either. Accompanied by a friend. In white raiment.

So what was that? Priest or something? Yeah. Or I have some kind of ghost. Yeah. But this was in an article about the shuck. So he was saying, no, no, it was the shuck. It's just sometimes the

shark is dressed in a tight fitting cow skin sometimes sometimes it's just really really really well dressed normal dog behavior i don't think i've seen a dog wearing like leather trousers they'd have to wear chaps uh yeah i think the idea of the shark is that basically it's whatever you want it to be really as long as you say that was the shuck. As long as it's broadly a dog. Well, even then, I don't think necessarily. So, yeah, and he can be invisible. He can be dragging chains.

He can have a head, no head, two eyes, one eye. The smuggling incarnation is a deliberate scam to scare people off. What people supposedly did, according to Lestrange, make their pony look hideous with black cloth and so forth. And probably with dark lantern tied to his head, they would lead him up the lanes where they were running their smuggled kegs. Dark lantern, as we mentioned a couple of episodes ago, is the kind sometimes tinted with like a bullseye lens, so they just shine in one direction. So that might explain giant yellow or red saucer-shaped irons.

That does sound like it. Hanging lanterns off the head of a pony. And one or two. You know, one might have gone out or something, or you might only be able to afford one black lantern. It's not the old school way of doing a blacklight, I guess. Oh, it's not like a black... No, it's not like rock blacklight. I've got quite a good story shall i tell you this one it's a historical

one please historical so this is 1893 this is from percy delisle's tales and traditions of old yarmouth this kind of explains what the origin of shuck might be as well so it says according to tradition old scarf was long ago imprisoned in the cellars of the Duke's Head Inn by Catholic priests. For so long a time, as the waters flow beneath Yarmouth Bridge, the dog was said to be named after Baron Rudolf Scarf, who was supposed to have been a mercenary knight of the 13th century in the Harz Mountains of Germany, knight of the 13th century in the Harz Mountains of Germany, who after much wickedness and depravity fled after excommunication to the village of Borough Castle and continued his evil lifestyle there. After he was finally slain, the devil was said to have changed him into dog form, laden him with chains and sent him back to earth to create further havoc. It was currently,

mid-18th century, believed that the evil one under the familiar name of Old Scarf, oh and by the way, Old Scarf comes from maybe Skeff, which means skeffy or shaggy. Anyway, he assumed the shape of a black dog and on dark, wintry nights was heard rushing up and down the South Town Road, making sorrowful moanings and dragging after him a clanking chain. Notwithstanding this, as in being immured under the Duke's head, Old Scarf continued to be a terror to benighted travellers until at length the increase of houses scared him away. So the Catholics... Scared of houses?

So the Catholics didn't manage to get rid of him. Wow. The new housing estate did. Popping up all over the place. That dog had never been scared of a house before that day. Just really scared of uninspired architecture too many people i feel compelled to mention this story because it's set uh between two towns called little and great snoring a white canine apparition white shortly before the second world war it was

reported to have been seen on several occasions slinking along the lonely road between the villagers according to the villagers it had a terrifying habit of dashing across the road in front of cyclists and motorists to disappear howling into the adjacent fields. It was about this time that a motorcyclist declared

that he had run through this ghost dog, an experience which unnerved him so much that he abandoned his vehicle by the roadside. Wow. He was a sheep. He was so frightened he got off his motorbike

and ran away. ran away not having any of that it's not it's not like the bike was haunted why not use the bike to escape the ghost maybe there were remnants of ghost upon it like slimer in ghostbusters yes i mean i might have mentioned that purely for little and great snoring that's that's that's the name of the game that is the rules isn't it i i for one would never drop a story in just because it's got good names in it that's outrageous i have what according to mystery animals of britain and ireland is one of the first accounts if not the first account of the black shuck it's from friend of the show anglo-saxon chronicle which i'm yet to look up as to whether it is a

newspaper or not but it does sound like a newspaper i buy it yeah from the year 1127 now i'm guessing this is a translation because i can read it and i will let no one be surprised at the truth of what we're about to relate for it was common knowledge throughout the whole country that immediately after his arrival and then hard brackets the arrival of abbot henry of patu at the abbey of peterborough it was the sunday when they sing excurge quarry oh domine many men both saw and heard a great number of huntsmen hunting so far so 1127 what was the name of that abbot again abbot henry of patoo did he invent chewing tobacco yeah i think he was a cowboy in the old west or ye old west the huntsmen were black huge and hideous and rode on black horses

and on black he goats and their hounds were jet black with eyes like saucers and horrible. Horrible. Just horrible. A reliable witness who kept watching the night declared that there might well have been as many as 20 or 30 of them winding their horns as near as they could tell. This was seen and heard from the time of his arrival all through Lent and right up to Easter. I read that.

That sounds a bit like the wild hunt, doesn't it? Yes. Yeah, and it's implied that Chuck was left behind, perhaps, like a little super turd. Stop making him so sympathetic. I saw that story and it says they stayed locally for 30 days. So yeah, that's the period of time. But like, so they were there for quite some time, this wild hunt. That's something that used to happen in 80s films though, isn't it?

Like bikers would just come to town and then just go doing donuts outside of a building on their motorbikes. So I assume it was like that. I've already got a correction, an apology to make. so I assume it was like that. I've already got a correction, an apology to make. When I've said they were winding their horns, I'm pretty sure it probably was winding.

Winding their horns. Winding their horns. Otherwise it sounds like they're having a boogie, but they're just... I was imagining them having horns like devil horns. Oh, and then like sort of motorbiking themselves up. A twist, yeah. Yes. Yeah, that explains that. That does explain that.

Where do you folks stand on the Black Dog of Bungay? That rings a bell. Yeah, I've heard of that. Oh, did this happen in 1577? That one, yeah? It did happen in 1577. I think we've touched on it on the podcast before. But in 1577, Abraham Fleming wrote,

a strong and terrible wonder. I mean, I think he meant strange, but he spelt it strong because it was 1577. Strong. On the 4th of August, 1577, there was a terrible thunderstorm and a dog ran into the church during the sermon and just killed two guys dead. According to Abraham Fleming, the dog came running all along down the body of the church with a great swiftness and incredible haste among the people in a visible form and shape, passed between two persons as they were kneeling upon their knees, thank you, and occupied in prayer, as it seemed,

wrung the necks of them both at one instant clean backward. I don't know quite how that works. Even at the moment where they kneeled, they strangely died. Whoa, whoa, what? Yeah, they strangely died. Whatever it means, if a dog was to turn your neck backwards, I don't think your death would be strange. He just wrung their neck, cleaned backwards,

and then they strangely died. But that's not the weirdest thing. The same dog still continuing and remaining in one and the self-same shape, which is very suspicious. Minutes later, it's got the same shape. It passed by another man of the congregation in the church and gave him such a gripe on the back that therewithal he was presently drawn together

and shrunk up as the mouth of a purse or bag drawn together with a string. Wow. It just scrunched a guy right up. To a tiny little pursed mouth. This is a lot more interaction than you normally get from these sorts of cryptids. This is a far, far cry from seeing a thing in the distance.

So he strangled a couple of blokes and then turned one into a little strangle two blokes and then scrunched a guy up as if he was a piece of leather scorched in a hot fire like putting a crisp packet you know what you do to a crisp packet yeah crisp packet in a microwave like microwaving a crisp packet which she shouldn't do well i think that is the bit that reminds me that we have talked on this before, because I think we did compare that man to the logo, ending up like the logo on a crisp packet. All right. Well, maybe we've covered that before,

but it's worth returning to Mr. Scrunch. Did you have the bit as well, though, where he then went 12 miles away to the town called Blibbery? I might be pronouncing that wrong. Blibbery. Yeah, Blibbery, I have be pronouncing that wrong. Blibberi. Yeah, Blibberi, I have it as. Yeah, and then did it again, essentially, I think. Although maybe not the Chris Packard thing.

Well, I think, yeah, so the Hollinshead Chronicles of 1587 has an account which is basically that, but it doesn't feature the dog. I think, I don't want to come across as too sceptical and rationalist, because people are always comparing me to Dana Scully, because I've got red hair, everyone really likes me. You were voted FHM sexiest podcaster, weren't you? I was voted sexiest podcaster of the 90s, yes.

I don't want to get a reputation for being too sceptical, but it sounds like two churches were struck by lightning on the same day. And in the telling of the story, a magic dog got added because the Holland's Head Chronicles describes it striking in Suffolk, Blibra first. The church of Blibra, a town in Suffolk, experienced a strange and terrible tempest of lightning and thunder. And it came and it's strake is the verb they use. It's strake through the wall of the same church into the ground almost a yard deep. Then renting up the wall to the vestry, cleft the door, returning to the steeple, rent the timber, break the chimes and fled towards Bongi.

Which I think is Bungay. A town six miles off. Where it turned that guy into that crisp pack at that time well one one man more than 40 years and a boy of 15 years old were found stark dead and the same or like flash of lightning and cracks of thunder rent the parish church of bongi nine miles from norwich which is weird because that is not the distance that that place is from Norwich. You know, it's much further away from Norwich. So it moved it further away by about 10 miles.

It says there are still scorch marks as well on the north door of the church. From the dog or maybe from the lightning that happened. Well, they're said to have been made by his fingers as he left the church. The dog's fingers.

The dog's fingers. Yes. Ugh fingers dog fingers and the weather vane commemorates this doesn't it and it really hedges its bets the weather vane because the weather vane features a dog and lightning just to kind of say yeah it was one of these what could have been what could have been either, really. Maybe a small microwave as well. Can I do an honourable mention? Because this is not Black Shook related, but it was the next page over in Dutt's book,

and I feel like I have to make an honourable mention of old Blunderhazard. Lovely. There's a Norfolk family called the Blennerhazards who had a house at Norwich, but acquired property at Barsham near Beckles by intermarriage. And it's an old tradition at Barsham. It does sound bad, but I think it's all above board, James.

Apparently one of their ancestors, it would seem, old blunderhazard drives out in a carriage every Christmas Eve just before midnight to visit Hassett's Tower at Norwich and return to Barsham before he may snuff the morning air with, of course, headless horses that still somehow have fire flashing from their nostrils. Where though? No fingers. How?

How can these dogs have fingers and no heads? Aye, aye, aye. These horses have got nostrils. It's really very, very very impressive even the eyes i could kind of picture sort of eyes and then them being on kind of stalks coming out of the neck stump like i don't know like weird plants or something but just nostrils like an angle point yes like two of them but just two nostrils and then you've presumably got the whole tube

when is a dog not a dog anyway like at what point when you've removed bits of it does it stop being a dog yeah how can you tell a headless dog is still a hot a dog really yeah i'm no i'm no plato how could you say a crumpled crisp packet is a man well Well, he survives. What? He survives? He was apparently... Whoa, whoa, back up. Sorry. We missed that part of the story, I feel. He was talking quite strangely. Yeah, he survived.

He's not with us now because it was 1577, but... And lived a full and happy life as a Chris Packett. I don't think he was the same after he got scrunched. Did he say he recovered then? I don't think he...

I got better. I don't think he ever fully unscrunched. I think he stayed a smile. So let that be a lesson, really, to people like me who would doubt Black Shuck. Again, I'm turning to Dutt here. Dutt says, Scoffers at Black Shuck there have been in plenty, but now and again one of them has come home late on a dark, stormy night

with terror written large on his ashen face after that night he has scoffed no more you just got scrunched you've officially been scrunched and then writ terror on it you've been scrunched yeah what a great catchphrase for a dog that's excellent that is an excellent collection of stories. Shall we score this hellish hound? Bring, present, approach the bar. I'm trying to go back to the courtroom, but I am actually in a school gymnasium. Come on to the bench.

One of those bars where you have to try and do chin-ups. Yeah, but they haven't been used since the 80s. Approach the monkey bars. Okay.s okay yes okay i'm here show me what's the first category the first category drop and give me one category naming ah excellent classic classic category i think it's been it's been annoyingly good wouldn't you say james there was there some excellent ones. There was great snoring, great snoring, and little snoring. Was it little or lower? It was little, yeah.

It was little. Little snoring. Great snoring. It sounds also like an exclamation, doesn't it? Great snoring. The Norfolk Broads. The Norfolk Broads. Norfolk's highways and byways that one yeah the eastern

counties colectania yes a word that i have to slow down before saying every time because i've no idea what it is scrap b and flagborough the uh dickensian lawyers or whatever i said yeah yeah yes they've got spin-off potential there There was a whole bunch of Percys, it feels like. Not to even mention the many names of Shuck themselves. Mm-hmm. Monkey Trot or whatever his name is. Shug Monkey. Shuff.

I've read of the Shuck before, and I always misread that as a Shrug Monkey, and it's just like a sort of... I'm bothered. You know, like a guide dog, or a you know like a guide dog or you know like they can't shrug so they've got themselves a shrug monkey that comes and does all the shrugging for them yeah old blunder hazard i know not not strictly related to shuck but but props i am not gonna have a problem with something fun being on the next page

that can easily come into the story Desert Loads I think it's four four? it's four yeah

the town of Bungie the town of Bungie B-L-M-G-I-E Billyburg or whatever it was the hateful thing but on paper these are normal names

it's just how they're said is ludicrous. I think it's... It's a bit stiff. It's a bit stiff, but all right. The court has spoken.

The judge has spoken. Yeah, he's whacking a table tennis racket. All right, let's... Before he has a chance to relax, let's hit him with the second category. The second category is supernatural. Ah, now then come on james come on it's pretty darn scary this dog it it scared that guy with that time and

do i need to remind you he loved dogs yeah that's so scary scared by a dog before it was ectoplasm on someone's motorbike yeah it caused someone to disown a motorbike just peg it and and begin pegging it much lower speed yeah and begin to catholic priests as well yeah the most supernatural kind of priest the catholic priest that the man scrumpled up like a like an old note friend of the podcast mr scrumple yes walker's chris packet yeah uh their necks something happened to their necks that we can't understand they were wrung those two i believe they were just clean strangled from behind by a dog with fingers as usual by a dog with fingers dog fingers good boy it's dog would need fingers to beckon you into his web of sin i think the shucks gotta get five yes it's not even losing a point for those smugglers that would made their own shuck

out of a horse and two lamps thank you i was wondering if you would remember that i didn't say anything about the fake shuck but the score has been dealt now so that's that's done yeah now we can discuss the fact that i i'm aware of at least two fake shucks and and has has fallen now as the third category i suggest the category title of thunder and Lightning very, very frightening. Or ever so frightening. Because there was a lot of thunder, there was a lot of lightning, but also Black Shook was very, very frightening, James. Yes, and do you know what?

I love Thunder and Lightning, but I was scared by it in this story. I love horses with fire flashing from their nostrils normally. With no end. But when I saw old blunder hazard i feel like honesty does compel me to say that that shuck does protect as well though and there is there are stories of shuck protecting but in in quite a frightening way though in quite a

frightening way is this last minute evidence judge are you going to allow this uh peep yes i've got a sports whistle i'll tell it very quickly very quickly so but there's there's quite a few accounts of shuck scaring someone still but in order to save them so sort of like charging at them frightening them forcing them into a ditch and then a car zooming down the road and if they'd still been there they would have been hit nice one shuck that's the thing it doesn't undermine how frightening if anything thatises how frightening the dog is, that it's terror. It's fear-inducing properties could be used to save lives.

It's in the service of good, but it's still frightening. And we don't know the Shuck's motivations for keeping that person alive. It may have been to frighten them at a later date. That could have just been, yeah, someone in their back pocket that they know is afraid of dogs terrifying and then there also was thunder and lightning yeah the strange and terrible wonder the strong and terrible wonder the strong and terrible wonder of 1577 and those people playing

their horns for a month a dog with one eye yeah it could have been his bum we don't know yep could have been could have been its terrifying bum i think though i feel like i'm being backed into a corner by having three things as being in one category so i am going to take a point off for that now what are you i mean that's what you get you keep questioning i'll take two points because it's three things i'll just give you three points okay all right fine four it's a things. I'll just give you three points. Okay, all right, fine. It's a four. It's a four. Ah, I'm just going to go back to the change rooms.

Yes. Get back in my normal clothes. No, I'm not going to show. I don't quite understand what happened there. I'm not going to declare a mistrial immediately. What is this system? I don't, it's just, this is like some kind of Kafka-esque nightmare. You have nothing but contempt for this badminton court.

This is outrageous. I'm just, all right, we'd better wrap this up and try and get all of these basketballs back into a huge net. I propose the final category of bad dog. Oh, that is good. This is a funny one, though, because Lindsay, in true courtroom drama style, burst in at the last minute with some evidence that might sway the case.

Could it not be morally complex dog? Dog with nuance. Yes. If it plays a court, strike that from the record. Final category, nuanced dog. A developed dog, a characterly developed dog yeah yeah you better believe it's nuanced rich characterization what are the dog's motivations how can a dog nuzzle if it has no muzzle it's a question we've got to ask ourselves that joke my dog's got no muzzle it's a question we've got to ask ourselves

my dog's got no muzzle how does he know nobody knows my horse has only nostrils how does it smell of sulphur yeah it's quite fiery when you think about it this is where a lot of these sayings come from

we did see the dog's nozzle in the other well not really a nozzle more of an attachment yeah see the dog's nozzle in the other, well, not really a nozzle, more of an attachment. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's other nozzle. And the guy who got scrunched up, maybe he deserved it. That's true.

We never asked that question, did we? We don't know. We didn't ask if the man that got scrunched up like a crisp packet in a microwave for being at church

had done something to deserve it. He might have done something. Incited the wrath of God or the bored sixth former of God. Ironic punishment. I don't know how. Maybe he littered. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Yes. Yeah, yeah. Very good point. That is well-rounded characterisation right there. I think it is. This dog is as well-rounded as its own saucer-sized eyes. Very nice. That's sealed the deal.

It's a five. Hey! Nuance dog. Tweet, tweet. I'd blow my whistle and wave waving my ping pong racket. The end. But it's not the end, is it, James? Because this is part one of two or part two of two.

If we change our mind in the edit. Yes. In which case I'll have already said this at the end of the next one or previous one. From your point of view, we could just use the same audio for the end of part one, whichever part one we choose. Good point, I forgot about editing. Lawrence, Lindsay, will you come back for the next episode to tell us a tale

that perfectly mirrors this one? Whereas this tale was canine, the next will be feline? Feline. Long cats will return in The Beast of Belper. So, James, if you want to hear more from Lawrence and Lindsay, you could check out their podcasts,

which range from comedy to horror, or you could stay right here and wait for next week's episode, because they are coming back with another quadrupedal mystery yes in the meantime what should people do if they want to hear i don't know extras bonus bonus content there's some lovely bonus content from this episode and you will get access to that if you join us on patreon.com forward slash lawmen pod where you'll also get ad free episodes and access to the law folk discord where you can correct us for our many errors mostly mine about counties Oh, correction. I've got a correction from a very important Northeastern correction.

I said that the lanky member of a group of bullies was called a winnet. Yes. Which is nonsense. The small, weaselly little bully is the winnet. The tall one is the lofty, of course. Of course, loft winner. Tall one is the lofty, of course. Of course, lofty. Of course, the lofty. And the one with the straight curtains?

The gelled fringe in perfect spider legs. I don't think there is a name for that particular manifestation of the bully. Fair enough.