Love Life with Matthew Hussey - 148: The Truth About Modern Men And Casual Sex

Episode Date: January 13, 2022

It's recently been shown that young people are having less sex than previous generations. This got us thinking: Is Casual Sex Losing Its Appeal? Matt and Stephen sit down to talk: - How men and women think about casual sex in 2022 - What needs are met by casual sex (and what can cause it to become destructive) - How the desire for casual sex can conflict with a desire for real connection --- Book your spot on our virtual retreat on March 18th-20th! Go to MHVirtualRetreat.com and spend a magical 3 days with us transforming your confidence and relationships... --- Follow Matt @thematthewhussey Follow Stephen @stephenhhussey ---  Email us! You can get in touch with the show and give your feedback/thoughts at [e-mail] 

Welcome Welcome to another episode of the Love Life Podcast with me, Matthew Hussey, and my brother Stephen Hussey. Sorry, Dr. Stephen Hussey, before you correct me, Stephen. That's what it says on my underwear. Again, we don't need another episode that starts by talking about your underwear. No, we don't. We've got enough of those. Lord knows. What's going on today, Matt?

I'm pretty excited, Steve, because we're going to be talking about modern men and casual sex. The truth. I'm a modern man and I want to know the truth about this casual sex stuff about yourself this is that's ultimately what this podcast is about is truths about you steven and we i wanted to start off as we have been with a little review from connie who emailed in to podcast at matthewhussie.com, which is where you can write all of your reviews, stories, thoughts about the podcast, and even questions to me and Steven. Connie says, hello team. First off, love the podcast. I was enthralled by your discussion about dating criteria and had to write in to give my support to Stephen

on reading. Here we go. A little bit of support for you, Steve. Finally, here we go. Being able to share a major interest with your partner is a fantastic thing, particularly if it's a huge part of who you are. As a jazz musician, dating another jazz musician is so much fun. There's always something to talk about. Music to analyze and critique together, not to mention being able to understand the other's lifestyle. To date someone who isn't a musician would not necessarily be a deal breaker provided they like music, but it's a huge bonus to be able to discuss art, film, music, literature with your partner if that's what you're into. I cannot describe how fantastic and exciting it is to be able to share something I'm passionate about with my partner and have them know what I'm talking about and add to the conversation. Discussion can be fascinating as you learn and grow from each other.

That connection is amazing and I can understand why people would look for it. When it comes to religion, it makes sense why some people would seek a partner of similar faith. Like if you're orthodox and would like to raise your children religiously, it makes most sense to seek someone with the same values. Otherwise, it's like a major cat lover dating someone who hates cats. Anyway, hope Stephen finds a match to read Dostoevsky to. I'd agree that books aren't the same as podcasts. Reading is a totally different experience, particularly if reading prose.

Podcasts are not necessarily less intellectual, but totally different arts. Love you guys. Thank you, Connie. And what a thoughtful, interesting email. Oh, you would say that, Stephen. I like that Connie made that distinction, though. She dates a jazz musician, which is wonderful, but it wouldn't be a deal breaker if he wasn't. It's just that they have to be passionate about music. And really, that's all I was saying, Matt. it's not that someone has to read dostoevsky or heaven forbid want me to read dostoevsky to them though that would be a bit existential in bed but you know it's just do they appreciate do they appreciate and enjoy books

i don't want to i i think i didn't want to sound like some pompous ass when we had that discussion and when we had it i thought people were just going to think i'm some elitist you know i think i i think i'm so literary and it's not that i just i just want to chat about books and films that's it i like talking about books and films with people oh so now it's films too and that's it it was just books last time i love having to chat about them the list grows can i just say that that's not what you said though steve you said you wanted a reader so i mean just to go with uh go with the analogy that she put forward was she could date someone who wasn't a jazz musician could you date someone who wasn't a reader well that's to be decided jameson but

i'm saying they don't have to read they don't have to read literature or the things that i read it's just i want you know no that's progress that's to be decided there's a little ellipsis there no i did one thing i conceded after we spoke about that is that intellectual curiosity is the keystone there. You are right. But like Connie says, reading and listening to podcasts are two different things. And, you know, I think reading is, that's where it's at, baby. Fair enough. Well, thank you, Connie, for a very thoughtful and well-lettered email in to the love life podcast let's talk about modern men and sex steven i mean if that if we must let's do it now there is data out there to suggest that people aren't having quite as much sex as everyone else thinks they are.

Can you speak a little bit to that, Stephen? Yeah, I've seen a few graphs shared on Twitter, and they've kind of gone semi-viral, where people have said, this is alarming, and it shows behaviors of specifically often men under 35 but it is also a gen z thing it's seen as so you know young millennials or gen z 30 and below and it just shows there's far later to lose virginity or far less sex in general uh less partners sexual partners compared to the generation before there was an article by the institute for family studies that did this big general survey and showed that the share of under 35s who have not had sex in the last year has spiked dramatically over the last decade so we're not just talking just COVID here. COVID was a big factor that has had all sorts of changes, but this has been a kind of decade-long

trend. And what are the prevailing explanations for that trend? So one thing they're saying is just that people are delaying having marriage so marriage people in marriages actually have a good amount of sex but if people aren't getting married till a lot later there's lots of single people who just aren't getting a lot of sex before marriage and so just the fact that the marriage age is creeping up so much is just delaying the amount of sex that people can expect to have. So that's one reason. Okay. And that's kind of broader social change. The one they said in this study was that contrary to popular opinion, it's not just that people are watching more pornography and that's replacing sexual encounters they even suggest that

people who watch a lot of pornography actually tend to be the people who have more sex as well so there doesn't seem to be some direct correlation between the amount of porn consumed and that's the reason why you're not having sex but it's a very controversial one the pornography one obviously lots of people have many different kinds of objections to it and how it changes the way people see sex and all that stuff but this study suggests that's not the big factor the other one they just said is that people there's not more religion now but people who are religious take that more seriously than they did say 10 or 20 years ago and that there's more people say who are on the religious side who are against premarital sex and deciding hey i want to be more traditional don't want to have premarital sex so

they abstain and wait longer now the other one is this idea of whether people's attitude to hookup culture has just changed and are we just in an age you know millennials i feel like early millennials there was a lot of very pro hookup culture and it was seen as quite empowering um and for women as well because went through a lot of liberation to embrace sexuality. And, you know, I feel like 10 years ago or even 10 to 15 years ago, there was just more pro sexual liberation in that way. And in a way, what they're saying is Gen Z's are a lot more skeptical of this or becoming more skeptical. And they have had lots of times where like video games have got more popular indoorsy stuff then a pandemic as well and they do a lot more remote talk through apps and tiktok and instagram and all that stuff so in some ways we're just doing less physical contact as well

as general skepticism towards hookups but that doesn. That doesn't explain to me the skepticism towards hookups. Like, where would that disapproval be coming from? Because I don't think that it, you know, people wouldn't necessarily traditionally associate that with male behavior, that there is a disapproval amongst men especially of of hooking up casually the article i've seen here says that while generalizing about tens of millions people is always difficult studies show that in recent years there's been reported that teens since the tail end of the millennial generation are less sexually active they launch

their sex lives later and have fewer sexual partners than earlier generations and there's a quote from someone in the article a gen z who says i would say my generation is characterized as being exceptionally concerned with trauma and consent almost to the point of being prudish and then another one says kieran in the article says, people think we're kind of puritanical. And they've been even labeled as the new Victorians or the most prudish generation in history. But that isn't like a hard fact.

They're not exactly ultra conservative in their views or something. So it's not like there's some new wave of sudden puritanism but maybe it's a sense that i think it's a i think it's a mix of societal and cultural trends probably i mean that makes it makes sense to me from the point of view of the much more the much uh increased debate around consent and awareness of issues around consent uh and the me too movement it would make sense to me that in the context of that younger people are thinking a lot more about the effects of having sex the effects of pressuring someone else into sex the um and just and just being more thoughtful about sex in general

i it makes sense to me i suppose that if that's in the psyche of younger people that could have an effect and there's less drinking as you go younger less drinking just than they used to be yeah a mix of factors could be all kinds of things like this right if people more weed weed isn't exactly a sex drug is it if people go out less they drink less there's a lot more online life um maybe there's a lot more worries about just lots of casual hooking up and consent and stuff it all kind of can add up right i also think that just the if you look at the backdrop of things right now it's people who have really gotten used to being at home and that was not that's not a new thing right right? That was streaming services marked the real turn in people and at-home shopping of people just staying home.

And that means that pandemic or no pandemic, there was already a greater sense of it's easier just to stay home. And then dating apps, ironically, which you would think would really increase hookup culture, do also just give you more reasons to stay at home. I don't even need to go out to meet someone now. I can stay at home and message them. But a lot of people's relationship with dating apps is not one where it's some crazy hookup world. A lot of people's experience of that is that I now do more texting and less dating or shagging as it were. And that's my reality is living in a kind of video game of dating apps that doesn't translate into real experiences with real partners and the dating apps might even just create this weird like kind of winner takes all effect or something where maybe a few people are being sexually voracious on them and then there's a bunch of people who just kind of like feel

they're in the middle somewhere and they're they're not really like putting much effort into their profile or they don't really get attention. So there can be a sense where like for some people, the dating apps are like a bonanza and then loads of people where they're like, a few conversations, it peters out and it's kind of a bit of a disappointing experience. And I do think it's interesting to think about just in general, how much of women's experience and their perception of men is colored by the minority of men.

Absolutely. that a lot of men would benefit from. If we take that as a construct and say that there is a certain kind of guy who has a lot of access, who fits into what is known as the kind of player category and is taking advantage of that situation, a lot of women are going to come across that guy, especially if he demonstrates what are perceived to be desirable characteristics,

confidence, boldness, a certain attractiveness, a certainty, then there's going to be a lot of people attracted to that guy. And if that guy is hooking up with a lot of people, then there's a perception of men that a lot of women are experiencing because they're experiencing that guy. Meanwhile, I think that an awful lot of men are not relating to the experience of that guy. That's where I think the disconnect comes between the, in a sense, you could crudely put it the haves and the have-nots amongst men, but you could also just, I suppose, put it, you know,

the difference in sensibilities amongst men. there is that type that's hooking up a lot and then there is the type that isn't interested in that or isn't doing that and is living a very different lifestyle from that who doesn't relate to this kind of you know to use a modern term fuck boy persona. They don't relate to that stereotype. And of course, all of this is exacerbated by the fact that Instagram is, it shows us, just as it shows a level of, it makes it look like so many people are experiencing a level of, it makes it look like every most, so many people are experiencing a level of wealth that we're not experiencing. It can also make us feel like, well, we know for sure it makes us imagine there's a level of beauty across the board that we do not meet and that there's a

level of fun across the board that we're not experiencing and that there's a level of fun across the board that we're not experiencing. And that there's a level of sexuality that we don't have access to. If you go on financial TikTok, I think they call it Fintalk, you'd think that every 25-year-old just made $30 million on NFTs over this year. That's what you would believe you'd believe that every 25 year old is filthy rich because there's a bit there's loads of fakery there's loads of like exaggeration and bragging and you're seeing the outliers so it's all like everything creates these um a misperception of reality and i think sex it really happens in as well. We think people's lives are glamorous. We think everyone is out there having way more hookups and sex. That's the illusion that it creates because we're not good enough at discerning the actual reality from the few things we see. And I do, I do think this idea that, you know, there's, there's obviously a common idea amongst a lot of women that guys are having a lot of sex or that guys are hooking up a lot.

And sometimes I think there's the, what's not seen is that it's actually not easy for a guy to do that. There's a handful of guys, percentage-wise, who, like we said, have a lot of access. But actually, for most men, it's not that easy to do that. A woman can go out and get a sexual encounter if she wants, right? That's not going to be a difficult thing for a woman to achieve which is why steve women don't come to us asking i could you give me some tips for how i can go out and get laid tonight no they never ask that right because you can say a that's not what most of them are looking for and b that's not something that they would generally have a problem with now going home with the right kind of person is different um that's a little harder but it's

still going to be easier for a woman for a one-night stand than it is ever going to be for a man that men have to do a significant amount of convincing for a woman to want to come home with them they have to demonstrate a lot of things whether it's status whether it's attractiveness whether it's a sense of being high value or safe, but a woman doesn't have to demonstrate those things in return for an awful lot of guys. I'm not saying every guy would be in the mindset of going home with someone they met that night, but way more guys would be prepared to do that with someone they just met than women in that same scenario. Or at the very least, even if we said it's the same amount on both sides, men would have to do a lot more work to be that person than a woman would. So guys don't have it easy in this department. And as a result, I do think that the amount of sex that

guys are perceived to be having is way higher than it is in reality. Yeah. Over hundreds of women, thousands we've spoken to throughout the years, I've always been surprised by how many women who come to us way over assume how much sexual attention the average man is getting. Hey guys, this is just a quick interlude from Matthew to tell you that our Love Life Club is heating up and has so many great moments coming in January that we do not want you to miss by not being a member. We have a live Q&A with me on the 19th of January, where you can ask me your personal questions. You might even get a chance at joining us live, asking me one of your questions in a live coaching moment. And on the 26th, we have a masterclass, which you will get to be a part of. Each time we do

a masterclass, we focus on a major theme that affects people's love lives and two hours of me giving you solutions to that particular thing. So we're going to surprise you with that masterclass announcement soon. Watch out for what we're going to cover. And then on the 27th, we have a special appearance from Emily Morse from the Sex with Emily podcast, exclusive for members, where we're going to be talking about all things sex. I'm very excited about the month of January. If you are not a member in January, you are going to miss out on a ton of big moments that can help your love life.

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There was a study, Steve, what was that study about people being single, people being single and the amount of sex they've had in the last year or have not had in the last year? So this study said Americans are having less and less sex, especially casual sex, with almost 30% of single people reporting that they haven't had sex for at least one year. I like that statistic just from the point of view of taking the pressure off of people. I think the idea that everyone else is having way more sex than you are is the thing that can make you stress about it. It's the thing that can make you feel like you should be having a different experience of life. It's one of those things that can create FOMO where there doesn't need to be FOMO.

And it's also, sex is an area where we have to know ourselves. We have to know what it is is actually going to make us happy. Even for a lot of guys, I think it just happens to be true that way more guys can experience truly meaningless sex than women can. But even for guys, there will be a point at which they're doing something because they think they need to do it or because they should do it in order to prove something to themselves or other people. But they get to a point where they realize this isn't working. I'm not happy. This isn't fulfilling. This doesn't leave me feeling good. I actually think that there's, if I were to look at, you know, we live in a world today that tries to minimize as much as possible, or in some cases, completely eradicate any differences between men and women. And I may not be an anthropologist, and I may not

be someone who has done studies on this that could be backed by data. But when it comes to empiricism, I back the things that I've discovered over 15 years, because unlike someone doing people in the way that they approach these subjects. that men can more casually have sex and it truly be, as a friend of mine once put it, a cup of tea, meaning that it doesn't have a lot more significance than a cup of tea. Women, and this isn't true of all women, and by the way, this isn't true of all men, but there are far more women who get emotionally connected through sex to the extent that it can make it a more emotionally dangerous thing for them to do. Because if I know that I develop an emotional connection through sex, then I'm more liable to get hurt by casual sex than the person I'm sleeping with. If I go in not knowing the intentions of that person and I discover it to be truly casual, I'm more likely to be the one who gets hurt than the man in this scenario. Again, not true. I hope

I don't have to labor the point on this by saying this every two sentences, but not true for everybody. There are exceptions, but my experience has been that there are far more women who have trepidation about hooking up with someone that they either barely know or don't know the intentions of because they want to feel more connected in that act and or they know that they will get more connected through that act now i also think add into that that for many men Men, even if they don't fall into the camp of sex can mean nothing for me, there is undoubtedly a different social pressure for men than there is for women. Historically, men haven't been shamed for having lots of sexual partners, quite the opposite. It's been a sign of your virility. It's been a sign of your virility. It's been a sign of your desirability. It's been a sign of your value as a man, your status in the pack. And it's certainly curious to me if younger people are now starting to think differently than that. But I don't think,

I would be very surprised if it's changed to the extent that men don't still have their ego attached to their access to many sexual partners in a way that a woman typically does not. It's not a sign of how amazing I am in the culture of women to say, look how many men I can sleep with in a week or in a month. That's not, it's not something that's rewarded as a badge of honor in the way that it is with men. I do think things have shifted i do think that things have become much more liberal and that the ability for women to talk about these things without and rightly so being shamed for it without being judged for it clearly that's become we've made a ton of progress there that of course doesn't answer the question of whether they would like to do that. Whether this is the thing that gets, I think we get tripped up on is there's a difference

between it should be okay for people to do that and whether it's a desirable thing for any of us to do that. And this is where I think that men and women do have something in common is that I believe though I think intuitively men can take longer to reach the realization I believe that both sexes can get to a point or will inevitably do get to a point where they realize that there is something about casual sex that becomes incredibly undesirable in the context of a really rewarding life a really rewarding connection that it cannot offer what we are deep down seeking when we do that that we are seeking you know if you take the example of men What are men seeking through that act? It's some sense of I'm important. I'm desirable. I am enough as a man. I am chosen. We think as men, if we can just be chosen enough times, if we can just be, if someone can decide they want us, then we will be enough. Then it means that, you know, that those experiences we had in school where we didn't feel like the alpha, where we didn't feel like we fit in, where we didn't feel like we were good enough. It means that we've overcome

those things, that we now are that person we always wanted to be, which is that person who is chosen, that we think that when that happens, we're finally going to feel enough. And it doesn't work like that. We find out, we discover, because it can never be enough if you are seeking self-acceptance if you're seeking being enough on the other side of an encounter with somebody else it will never work now the other thing that we're seeking is some kind of high, some kind of distraction, some kind of hit of something that can distract us from the unhappier parts of our lives. And in that sense, what difference does sex have to any drug? What difference does sex have to any addiction? I used to think about sex addiction as, you know, I heard Ricky Gervais once talking about sex addiction

and laughing at it and sort of seeing it as a kind of cop out. And I actually used to agree with him, but over time I've come to believe that we'll actually know what, what's the difference. What's the difference between sex or checking Instagram incessantly or drugs or alcohol or overeating or sugar addiction? What is the difference? These things are all interchangeable because they are all just the release of chemicals in the brain. They all do the same thing to us. Everyone's got their poison. And so many men are accessing some feeling that can distract them. In the same way that any drug is a, I just want to feel something. And I want to feel something that I'm not feeling in the rest of my life. Or I want to feel this so I can be distracted from the unhappiness, from the lack of fulfillment

in the rest of my life. Or I want to feel this as a distraction from the fact that I haven't met someone that I really want to meet because that's the experience of a lot of men, is I haven't actually, this thing that I'm supposed to find in my life. And this is, again, this is where I think that, you know, I started this by talking about the differences between men and women. I'm someone who believes that there are differences in the ways that men and women behave, but on a profound level, there are incredible similarities. On the most profound levels, I believe that men and women are the same. We all have a joint desire for the deepest, most beautiful kind of connection, the most beautiful kind of love. We all have the desire to discover, whether you want to call it a monogamous relationship or something else or whatever, the idea, as soon as you bring constructs like marriage into things or

things that appear to just be founded in a kind of conservatism. I think that it's actually a distraction from the more human element of all of it, which is just that we want to find love. We all want to find the deepest, most beautiful kind of love. And when we haven't found it sex provides a kind of distraction from that longing feeling of i haven't found this yet it's an outlet as well right it's an outlet for a yearning of i want a hit of connection or a simulacrum of deep connection that feels like it even if it's for a short time it's the same thing with so many drugs it's i'm not i i'm not feeling this in my life and i'm not someone who thinks you know i people talk about drugs as you can achieve the same thing in your you know on a night out you know you don't have to drink to have a good time,

but anyone who knows who's ever taken drugs or alcohol, that there is a feeling that's much easier to access when you do those things. Then if you don't do those things, it's a very easy thing to say. You can, you can feel all of this without doing this. Well, okay, fine. If you're some kind of meditation master who is able to access these feelings purely naturally, but for most of us mere mortals, it's not that easy. To me, the point is not that you can feel the same high in your everyday life. To me, the point is that your everyday life is so wonderful that feeling that intense, crazy high isn't actually something you need on the agenda. That life is good enough without having to experience a high

that actually has a corresponding low that is going to make your life disproportionately worse once it's over that's the point and and to me that's the point about that's the point about relationships, is that you're able to find a kind of a beautiful, constant state that's worth so much more than something that's going to give you a hangover at the end of it. Because when you truly feel connected, when you're truly feeling connected to the love of somebody else, when you're truly happy, you're not, you don't crave that thing. That's also going to come with that, that's also going to be a destructive force in your life. And for an enormous number of men, the kinds of, the kinds of hookups that they pride themselves on are actually the things that give them the worst hangovers at the end of it. See, whilst, whilst I believe that it's easier for, in general, easier for men to have meaningless sex, I don't believe it's without consequences after a certain point.

I don't believe that it has no effect i believe that it can be meaningless in the moment but still have a district be still be a destructive force is it destructive for the person doing the sexual sex or for their sexual partners both both i think the idea of casual hookups is a bit of a myth in general, because there's usually one person who's feeling less casual than the other. I think that the, the, there aren't nearly as many mutually casual situations as people say there are or think there are when they're talking about hookup culture. You almost always have someone who likes the other person a bit more or who has a bit more secret, even if it's not mentioned, a bit more hope that it might lead to something than the other person. And all you need is a little bit of hope that it might lead to something than the other person. And all you need is a little bit of hope

that it might lead to something for someone to get hurt. That's all you need. And it's easy if you're the person being casual who truly is experiencing something meaningless, it's easy to willfully ignore that little hope in somebody else because you're escaping from something right now because you're feeling something that's just a quick high in your life or a distraction from something in your life

it's very easy to ignore what secret hopes someone else might be harboring in order to just get what you want. And that's very common too. And that can happen in both directions. That doesn't have to be the case that the guy is the one feeling more casual. It can happen in both directions, but it is something that causes destruction on both sides for that reason, but also it can cause destruction for yourself because like any drug, when you start doing that in excess, you realize, oh oh this isn't working this thing i'm trying to solve through this isn't working the guys i've known who have gone through the phase of really wanting to prove

something to themselves by and i'm not saying look you're gonna have a great time having casual sex it's a phase lots of us go through when you're, you know, young. It's, you know, there are times when it can be great. But the guys who I've seen who are doing it to prove something to themselves, it does hit a wall eventually where it's either they're full of guilt or you know if they get to a level of maturity they realize like i'm hurting myself or other people here because i'm just trying to endlessly prove that i can do this endlessly prove i can do it or endlessly chase a high or endlessly distract myself from my unhappiness in my life um or trying to endlessly distract myself from the thing that

I really want, which doesn't seem to be available. And I, and I think that what happens for a lot of people is that once you're in, once you're kind of in that world of soup of the superficial, it can actually be hard to get out of it because that starts to be what you attract. If you're in the mode of finding quick wins of finding the quick high, then it actually becomes harder to discover the real thing i really believe this really yes some of those some of those people will say i'm doing this until i discover the real thing and i think that it's i think that that is an easy thing to say i i believe that it starts to disconnect you from what the real thing actually looks like. Wow.

It's no different if you're used to doing drugs to quickly feel good, then you're disassociated from what it actually takes in life to feel good. Right? What it actually takes in life to feel good is much slower. It's, it's a process of waking up, doing the right things in a day, go work out, eat foods that, that make you feel good, that make your brain feel sharp. Go for a walk outside, have a good conversation with a friend, connect to what you're grateful for in your life, work on something difficult that takes effort, that after a strenuous hour of focus on something gives you a beautiful feeling of having done something hard.

You know, these are not things that you're in the mood to do when what you're used to is, oh, I could do a hit of cocaine and feel good in 30 seconds. That's a different that's a different pathway and if you're training your mind for that pathway then your brain isn't going let's look at the 24-hour cycle of what it's going to take to feel a healthy seven and a half out of ten today. You could go to third way. You could go to third way of Eckhart Tolle and hoover up the mental cocaine of the blissful present moment, Matt, and just always feel present and joyful. Yeah, but Eckhart still does a lot in case you hadn't noticed.

He's not sitting under a tree meditating. He still goes on podcasts and whatnot. I've seen his Instagram ads for courses he's selling. I'm not, by the way, I'm not knocking Eckhart. I'm just saying this is not someone who's doing nothing. This is someone who's doing an awful lot. Like he's got a lot of drive, a lot of purpose. He's connected. I'm not saying I, I'm, I believe that he's doing it for all the right reasons

and he's, and it's got all the right intention behind it, but this is not someone who's doing nothing. But even if you just take the view that, you know, someone like Eckhart can, can sit and not do any of those things and just be connected to a sense of peace, that's a much more difficult thing to do than to just chemically induce it. And the same is true of people in their love lives who are used to getting the quick hit. When you're used to getting the quick hit, you are not living in the world of what it takes to build a much more nutritional connection with someone. It's slower. It's slower than let me meet up with someone for a date and have this night with them.

It's a slower process. Let me actually get to know someone. This isn't the roller coaster. This is me getting to know someone. This is me building a connection with someone. This is me coming to understand their values. Them coming to understand mine. Us building something together.

That's a different process. And if you're not used to that process, if you're not used to actually discovering who someone is bit by bit over time and investing in them, and instead you're used to just the quick hit, let me simulate a connection. Let me simulate love. Let me simulate what, you know, that's what, what is love bombing is coming in and simulating love, simulating an intense, you know, connection, playing boyfriend for a week, playing the love of someone's life for a month. But if you're doing that, if you're used to simulating that and constructing these false highs, then you're not in the world of where real love and real relationships exist. And the more you reinforce those patterns,

and the same is true, by the way, of micro dosing on somebody, you know, what we call micro dosing, when you keep going back to someone who's bad for you, for those giddy highs that you get after you make up and have sex and then argue again. And then you come back and then they disappear for two weeks and you feel horrible anxiety. Where are they? Am I going to lose them for good this time? And then they come back and you have the giddy high of falling for them all over again. You get lost in that world and you get divorced from what real beautiful connection looks like.

That becomes the universe you know. And that to me is, that to me is what's dangerous about it. I'm not, when I talk about casual sex, I'm not coming from some righteous or puritanical place. I'm coming from a place of saying it's, it's something that has real world consequences, whether you're a man or a woman. And I think that most people arrive in the same place sooner or later. Some people get there slower. Some people get there faster, but men and women alike arrive at the same place, which is that this doesn't seem to be working. I'm really curious to know how you guys felt about this episode. What did you like? What resonated with you? Any thoughts, any comments? Leave us your thoughts at podcast at Matthew Hussey.com. And I do want to make sure that we do a review from,

we've had our tradition of reading a podcast review from iTunes each time. So hello from Sacramento. Oh dear says, okay. Okay. I'll give you five stars in spite of your shameless disparaging of Sacramento. Your entertaining and inspirational content make up for it. Though Jameson is right. Matthew's accent would slay here. By the way, we have some great food here. Throw in lots of trees and beautiful rivers and it's really not half bad. Thank you all for the work that you do.

Looking forward to the retreat. See you soon. And then there's a different person, Steve, who says, that first one was from Literati for Life. This one is from Janelle Mister, who says, love the podcast, but what's wrong with Sacramento? Now, Steve, I just want to point out, I can't even remember what I said about Sacramento, but A, I was just joking. I've never even been to Sacramento. So I have no idea what I'm talking about. I've only seen the film Lady Bird. So that's my whole

experience of Sacramento. Jameson, having grown up there, it has a right to speak about it. And you weren't very defensive of Sacramento that day. I'll say what I said then, which is Sacramento is lovely. And I loved growing up there, but you were having me compare it to Los Angeles and how your accent is kind of played out here. And I was saying, well, you know, it would do really well

in sacramento and but you guys tried to make that seem like oh sacramento must be backwards then no sacramento is just not as jaded as la it's lovely oh well that's lovely i i would say uh thank you for your reviews and i just want to i want to change the the narrative on this podcast about sacramento because we really we have nothing against it as a place or jameson who comes from there well thank you everyone we'll speak to you next time in the next episode of love life thank you steven see you later, peaches.